Denis Villeneuve ("Dune: Part Two") and Luca Guadagnino ("Challengers" & "Queer") sit down to discuss the crossover of working with Zendaya and Timothée Chalamet, the portrayal of intimacy on-screen, and just how much these two icons have influenced one another.
Variety Directors on Directors presented by "Challengers"
Variety Directors on Directors presented by "Challengers"
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00:00I have to thank you, because I think that really seeing Timothée's performance on Call Me By Your Name
00:10is one of the main driving forces to think about Polar 3Ds.
00:23We don't know each other, but I hope we become friends in time.
00:26You're sweet, I would love to.
00:27But I feel there is something parallel between the two of us.
00:31We both are filmmakers who are working in the English language,
00:35but we are not coming from the English language.
00:38We are foreign in the language.
00:41You're French and I'm Italian, French-Canadian and I'm Italian.
00:47We both nurtured projects in our minds since we were kids.
00:50I think you notoriously read Dune at the age of 13 and you said,
00:56I'm going to make it.
00:57And I read Queer at the age of 17 and I said, I'm going to make it.
01:01So for me, it's not casual, because I really think about your work a lot
01:07and I really admire you very deeply.
01:11When I heard that we were working with the same stars in the leading roles of our movies,
01:17I felt like, yeah, because there is a companionship there.
01:20And I love the idea that these extraordinary people,
01:24Timothee Chalamet and Zendaya and all the other ones that you work with that are amazing,
01:30they can be played together and with them in so many different colors and in different canvases.
01:38So I think I'm very fond of that.
01:41And I was telling you before a story that I came to show Challengers 2Z in Budapest
01:46and while they were looking at the movie, I was walking in your sets.
01:50It was a Sunday, it was empty.
01:51It was a great moment.
01:53Yeah, I wish I had been there, frankly.
01:55I would have loved to show you the sets myself, to walk with you.
01:59It would have been an honor for me.
02:01But the thing is that I have to thank you,
02:04because I think that really seeing Timothee's performance on Call Me By Your Name
02:13is one of the main driving force to think about Paul Atreides.
02:18There was something about that intelligence that I saw in his eyes
02:23and the high maturity in that youth that you capture that I said,
02:29oh my God, maybe it could be him.
02:31And that is definitely, it was like, I remember it was definitely
02:40a strong moment when I saw the movie and I saw Timothee's performance.
02:44And when I started to think about casting,
02:46I thought a lot about Call Me By Your Name.
02:49I remember I was in Venice and there was Anson Di.
02:52Oh boy, okay, you saw Anson Di.
02:53And I went to see Anson Di because I was with a friend of mine,
02:58she was in the jury for first time directors
03:03and the words spread on the video in three seconds
03:07that the movie was a masterpiece.
03:08So I went to see it, it was a masterpiece.
03:10It was very surprising to me the subject matter of the movie
03:17and the way you did it.
03:23It's based on a play written by Wajid Mouawad
03:26and it's like, it was at first strange for me
03:29to approach the subject matter that was so far away from me,
03:32but there was something in the tissue of the story
03:35that deeply talked to me.
03:38And I knew how to direct it
03:39and I knew how to brought it to the screen
03:41and I was able to get the rights.
03:43And it's a fantastic play writer.
03:47We works in Paris now.
03:50It's a movie that has been staying throughout the decades
03:57as a movie that is very telling.
03:59Every time you watch it,
04:00it's about something that is really happening.
04:03Yeah, yeah.
04:04Both in terms of like the mythological
04:05and actually the urgent.
04:07Yeah, it's sadly about cycles of violence,
04:11never ending cycles of violence
04:12and unfortunately reality keeps repeating itself here.
04:17Me, I discovered your work through Call Me By Your Name.
04:20It's still a movie that I'm thinking of very often today.
04:24Of course, from the performance,
04:26fantastic performances from the actor,
04:29but also how daring the movie was
04:31about the way you use the camera work
04:34and the mise-en-scene,
04:35I was really impressed by that film.
04:37And from then on, I followed your work, yeah.
04:39Thank you, thank you.
04:40It's a movie where I said to myself when I did it
04:43that I wanted to free myself from the obligations
04:47of the camera and the technique of the camera.
04:51So I decided to shoot it with only one lens.
04:55Yes, yes.
04:56And I picked 35,
04:57which suddenly was a limitation that freed us completely.
05:02And then I got back to the way
05:03in which I wanted to use the camera.
05:05And when you did that,
05:08when you were in the editing room,
05:09it's a question I always wanted to tell
05:11because I felt that freedom
05:13and it was also where you were going,
05:15you were cutting the axes
05:16or you didn't like,
05:18I felt like a total new way to use the language
05:22in the way you cut between the...
05:24So that's why, because you use only 35.
05:27Only 35.
05:28So the duration, the distance is never kind of changing.
05:31Because it's a movie about people in a house,
05:34it was going to be consistent, the thing.
05:37Yeah, and it's like tableau.
05:38Each shot is like a tableau and each shot,
05:40but there was like sometimes,
05:42there's like a shock between the tableau
05:43that I thought was very propulsive and daring.
05:47You understand what I mean?
05:48I totally understand,
05:48but I honestly, I have the same exact feeling
05:51watching your movies
05:53because I feel that what you build is an image
05:56that is juxtaposed another image.
05:58And it's the shock of the two images together
06:00that what makes your movie arresting.
06:03Thanks for saying.
06:04I think that if I wasn't a director,
06:06I'll be an editor.
06:09I love editing.
06:10Editing is one of my favorite part.
06:11I came from the documentary
06:13and when I was doing documentaries,
06:15where I took the most pleasure
06:17by making those were really in the editing room
06:20where you are limited to what you capture
06:24and then to create association of images
06:27to create something new.
06:28And even today in a movie,
06:31like the movies I'm making right now,
06:33I'm trying to find back in the editing room,
06:35that pleasure of something,
06:36shocking myself with that,
06:38just a position of shots
06:39that were not meant to be your things
06:41and create something new.
06:42But in Doom part two,
06:44you do that beautifully
06:45and in a very like experimental way.
06:48I think the third act is editorially very like...
06:52Yeah, yeah, yeah, choppy.
06:53The way that moves through places and times
06:57and almost give the feeling of the Arrakis spice
07:02in watching it for me.
07:03I understand.
07:04It was very like, wow.
07:15I'm happy you're saying so.
07:18It's true that at the end,
07:20the tableau become in French,
07:23we said entrechoquer.
07:24It means that there's collisions between the shots
07:28to provoke a momentum.
07:30But that's pure experimentation.
07:35You did it like entering into the experimentation.
07:38Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:38It's something that I'm blessed.
07:42I'm grateful that the studio allowed me
07:46to go in that zone,
07:48to not stay in the,
07:49let's say more conventional zone of editing
07:52because when I was doing movies
07:54with more in the indie world,
07:56it's something that you...
07:57But when to be able to do that
08:00and that, yeah,
08:04that's where I'm having the most fun,
08:05the more fun, yeah.
08:06But I think the beauty of it is that
08:08that you continue carrying your perspective on things
08:12no matter what the size of the movie is,
08:14which makes you a creator of prototypes.
08:17Yeah, but don't you have the...
08:20You do the same technically.
08:21I try to, yes.
08:23Because me, what I'm amazed is that
08:25when I watch your movies,
08:27it's always the movies I feel are like,
08:29always like you try to break the form
08:33or you try to push forward the language,
08:36but always in a different way.
08:37It's always your movie.
08:39I always recognize you
08:41from the sensibility,
08:44the subject matter,
08:45and more specifically,
08:47the way you can incredibly approach intimacy.
08:53I don't know how you do that, honestly.
08:55I don't know it's masterful
08:56the way you are able to get closer to human behaviors,
09:01to sensuality, to sexuality.
09:03I think it's very powerful.
09:05And being a director,
09:06I know how difficult this is to do.
09:12So through your movies, I always feel that,
09:14but at the same time,
09:16a movie like Challengers and Queer
09:20are so different in some ways
09:23from the shot list approach or camera movement.
09:28It's always, in your case,
09:31absolutely mastered.
09:33The rhythm, the inner rhythm of the shot is perfect.
09:37That's what you guys would have done together.
09:39But imagine if you could turn Patrick Zwaaik,
09:42you know, a guy who wins a slam.
09:44Are you trying to make a different movie every time?
09:47I do. I think I do.
09:49I think I try to find a way to speak
09:53the different possibilities of the language of cinema
09:57that I learned watching great movies in general.
10:02I like to think that I think of cinema
10:04through the lens of cinema.
10:07And I do love filmmakers who are thinking of cinema
10:09through the lens of reality, of course.
10:12But what fascinates me, what makes me jump
10:16is the way in which we can build an imagery
10:21that is somehow related to our job, our métier,
10:29which is the idea of space and movement
10:34inside and outside the camera and the frame.
10:37But if you think, I see,
10:40if you take a movie like Challenger,
10:42which is like it, I was like floored
10:46by the way it was shot,
10:47by the directing, the way it's done.
10:50It's like, first of all, I absolutely believe
10:53that the three of them were half pros
10:56or pro tennis players.
10:57I don't know how you achieve that.
10:59The amount of training that they went through.
11:01I don't know how you achieve when they fight.
11:06But it's just the amount of preparation
11:08and also the level of the precision of camera work
11:12about the way, how do you work?
11:16Like a movie like Challenger, do you storyboard a lot?
11:19Is it something that you go and you sit
11:21and you watch Zendaya and the opponent play
11:25with the cinematographer and you,
11:28do you have like, is it things that those shots are like?
11:32Of course, if there's an actor throwing a tennis ball
11:36toward the camera, there's a floor of glass.
11:38This has been to be planned, of course,
11:40but how do you approach?
11:42Usually I never do storyboard.
11:43Okay.
11:44Usually I like the idea that having been prepared
11:49more or less well at knowing the sets,
11:51I go there, I don't do even shoot list.
11:54I just go there with the actors and we block.
11:57Once we have an idea of what the blocking is,
12:02I then understand how to shoot it.
12:04Got it.
12:05So I tell everybody where we have to put the camera.
12:09But in Challengers, because I basically didn't know
12:12anything about tennis, I was completely dry.
12:15I love that.
12:16I didn't know anything.
12:17And now I know less because I forgot.
12:21I had to go through a lot of planning.
12:25So I wanted to have tennis doubles
12:27for like a couple of months with me
12:30and doing the points that were described in the script,
12:33repeating and repeating until I could understand
12:35what that meant first.
12:38And then I started to draw all the shots.
12:41So eventually, like two, three weeks before shooting,
12:45we had already storyboarded all the tennis,
12:47just the tennis.
12:48Understand.
12:49Which was interesting because I thought storyboarding
12:54meant a little bit of airless kind of filmmaking
12:57in my prejudice.
12:58A little bit less what?
13:00Airless, as if it was a bit too like controlled.
13:04OK, OK, OK.
13:05In fact, it was actually a good tool to lose control.
13:09But if I hadn't storyboarded, I would have died
13:12because the geometry of the court was too important
13:16not to achieve.
13:17Yeah, but also the nature of the camera movement
13:19you were coming with.
13:19You cannot improvise that on the day.
13:20You cannot say to your cinematographer.
13:24He has to know what train he's bringing.
13:28Because I love camera movements.
13:30Yeah, obviously, yeah.
13:31You do love camera.
13:33I think, I mean, if you zero on the grammar,
13:36what is the rhetorical figure of our work that you prefer?
13:40The camera movement, the editing?
13:44Me, editing and the lenses.
13:46Do you own lenses yourself?
13:48No.
13:49Have you ever thought about the fetish of buying them?
13:51I remember the first time when I was a film student,
13:55the first time I had a camera in my hands.
13:58I brought back the camera home.
14:00It was a Bolex.
14:01And I remember, I think I slept with the camera.
14:04I was in love with cameras.
14:07And through learning how the reality is transformed
14:16by the millimeters,
14:17is something that still fascinates me today.
14:20Me too.
14:21And I would say that's the thing.
14:24And I did, it took me a while before finding my,
14:33let's say, my voice as a filmmaker.
14:35It took me a couple of movies.
14:37Some filmmakers, probably most of them,
14:41find their voice with their first feature.
14:43There's a lot of people who are born
14:45and with a very strong voice.
14:47Not me, I was like...
14:48Me neither.
14:49I was too, there were too many voices in my head.
14:55Too many influences, too many directors.
14:57Did you want to try too many things?
14:59Yes, but also, I was a film student.
15:03I watched too many movies.
15:06I was like, and so I had never...
15:11Really, during my fourth feature,
15:15that I finally felt strongly that it was silence.
15:21I was able to make shots.
15:24That belonged to me.
15:25And as I was doing so, it was very tableau.
15:28It was very still.
15:29It was, there was not a lot of camera movements
15:31to my great surprise, but to my great comfort.
15:35So it came out...
15:35Was it Prisoners?
15:36No, it was a movie called Incendie.
15:38It's Incendie.
15:38I can't believe your fourth movie.
15:40Yes, yes, yes, yes.
15:41I'm so sorry.
15:41Why?
15:42I thought it was your second movie.
15:43No, it's good news because you should not see that.
15:50No, but it's something I...
15:52So you were surprised to find out that the camera was still?
15:56Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:57But that it was the way it needed to be shot
16:02and that I was going away from preconception
16:09or how it should have been done.
16:14I remember, again, when I did Blade Runner 2049,
16:17Ridley coming to me, Ridley Scott saying,
16:19your camera is really still.
16:21Should you do more movement?
16:23Maybe he was right.
16:24But I felt at home in that static
16:27and that kind of contemplative and being still.
16:33There's something about stillness
16:34that really appeals to me deeply
16:38and that is not very far away from what is in fashion.
16:42But it doesn't mean that I don't admire people
16:46that work like you with incredible camera movements,
16:48like in Challenger.
16:50How are you going to look at me
16:51if I still can't beat Patrick Spike?
16:57Just like this.
16:58The point of movement and stillness
17:00is what it means if you move the camera.
17:03And honestly, I agree with you.
17:07The idea of movement for the sake of it
17:10is really insufferable in cinema.
17:12Also, the idea that the movement
17:14can be defying the physics.
17:16For me, it's impossible.
17:18At the beginning of Dune part two,
17:20you have those people climbing,
17:23like flying over this mountain
17:25in this beautifully composed shot.
17:28And we bring them up with us in a way
17:30that I have not seen in a sci-fiction movie
17:35where you have someone flying.
17:38Because it's about the space
17:40and the time they take to get there
17:42that I feel you are giving me.
17:45And of course, the arresting position where we are,
17:47which is an impossible position,
17:50which is amazing.
17:56Because if everything can be done,
17:58you can flip the camera like this in every way,
18:00then nothing is real.
18:02Do you think that's a thing that I'm wondering?
18:06We are both from the same generation.
18:08We were being raised with cinema
18:12before computers.
18:14Definitely.
18:14And that meaning that there's something
18:16about the depth of field,
18:18the possibility of the camera movements,
18:20the limitations that define
18:23the way we perceive movies.
18:25And when I do visual effects,
18:29I use those limitations.
18:30I will not put a camera between the flying objects.
18:33Even if it's CGI flying objects,
18:35I will keep a distance.
18:37Like if it was a real,
18:39I will put lenses to shoot the worms
18:41that are long lenses
18:42because it would be impossible
18:43for a film crew to be close to a...
18:45I'm trying to use the limitations
18:47of what it would be if it had been real
18:52and using those limitations
18:53that I knew from the cinema
18:55from before computers.
18:57But the young generation who are used
18:59to see those crazy movements,
19:03those absolutely free camera movements
19:06that are doing the impossible things
19:08that you're talking about,
19:09that you don't like.
19:12I wonder if they will have the same references
19:14in their mind.
19:15You understand what I mean?
19:16I do understand.
19:17I'm wondering if I'm a dinosaur.
19:20No, you know what?
19:21No, we are not.
19:22I am a bit grumpy,
19:23but I think they should go back
19:24to the great movies and learn.
19:27Today I had the privilege
19:28of watching an amazing print
19:30of La Grande Illusion, Jean Renoir.
19:33Wow, wow, wow.
19:34Where did you see that?
19:35At the Mill Theatre at Amazon.
19:38They were gracious enough to show me,
19:41to give me a screening of it.
19:43The way in which Renoir moves the camera,
19:46it's dazzling,
19:48but always with a very specific purpose
19:50that is never about
19:52the kind of anxiety of boredom.
19:55It's more about letting you understand.
19:58So...
19:59Meaning.
20:00Yeah.
20:00I understand.
20:01Do you remember your first encounter
20:03with a coup de corps of cinema?
20:06Like the first time you saw a movie
20:07that you felt like,
20:07oh my God, that's what I want to be.
20:09Honestly, I remember
20:12one of the first aesthetic shock
20:14was on, I think it was on television.
20:16And I think it was the beginning of 2001,
20:18Space Odyssey.
20:19The movie was shown,
20:21you know, at the time on TV,
20:22the movie was shown once a year
20:26on a Thursday night at eight o'clock.
20:28I had to go to bed at 8.30 or something
20:30and I was in the stairs cheating
20:33and parents were thinking I was in my bed,
20:35but I was still looking at the TV.
20:38It's just the opening of this movie
20:40really created a feeling of vertigo.
20:43That to be in front of something
20:45that I was not understanding,
20:47something that felt totally real,
20:48but something that the dawn of humanity,
20:52where you have like,
20:53and that feeling of someone
20:55that went there with a camera
20:56showing me something
20:57that was intellectually challenging.
21:00And to this day,
21:01it's still one of my favorite movie
21:03because of that.
21:03It is beautiful what you say,
21:04because I honestly feel
21:06the complete connection with Arrival
21:09and Dune and Dune part two with 2001
21:14and the sheer towering ambition
21:16of encompassing the universe
21:19into the screen
21:20that he was trying to go for.
21:23It was an impression
21:24that it's a primal scene, basically.
21:26Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:28And it's something that I feel,
21:32you know, you're talking about Renoir,
21:34but this idea that
21:35the power of the language of the images
21:40and not to go away from dialogues.
21:46I'm not saying dialogues are bad,
21:47but for me, it's something
21:48that should not be
21:51the driving force of a film.
21:54Dialogue can be interesting
21:55if it's one of the elements.
21:56Exactly, exactly.
21:57But if it becomes the driving force
21:59because you have to get the information
22:01through dialogue,
22:02we basically are bankrupt.
22:04Yeah.
22:05And honestly, I will say this.
22:07I feel that that's where
22:08the both Dune movies are not.
22:11There's where I feel
22:12that I was never able,
22:14my dream would have been
22:16to do those movies
22:18with as less dialogue as possible.
22:20And I failed
22:22because I feel that
22:24there's too much elements
22:25that needs to be understood
22:27between the dynamics of everybody.
22:28And there's too much dialogue
22:30to my, to personally.
22:32Do you think you can decidedly
22:36work on a movie
22:39of that scale
22:40and basically dismissing dialogue completely?
22:44Not completely.
22:46I would not like it to be like a...
22:48A gimmick.
22:49A gimmick, exactly.
22:50No, no, no.
22:50But as less as that,
22:52the dialogue, as you said,
22:54is just something that is there
22:55as an element.
22:58Yeah, an element.
22:59Maybe it's an element of behavior.
23:01Yeah, exactly, exactly.
23:02More than an element of information.
23:04But the core of the language
23:08is a bit like in Queer,
23:09where it's like,
23:10I felt that you could, I think,
23:14you could watch Queer
23:16without the dialogues
23:17and you will absolutely understand
23:19what's happening in the movie.
23:20Absolutely.
23:21You will absolutely understand
23:23the dilemma, the fear,
23:24the vulnerability,
23:26the anxiety, the loneliness,
23:28the quest of the main character,
23:32the main protagonist of Queer,
23:34and you will absolutely understand the film,
23:36I think, without a sound.
23:38Don't you think?
23:39That's an amazing compliment.
23:40I hope so because...
23:41It is the best compliment for me.
23:43Yes, it's the best compliment.
23:52I was floored by how you created,
23:57I would say, a mental Mexico,
24:01like a kind of a Mexico
24:02that looks so real,
24:04but at the same time,
24:05looks like coming from the mind of someone.
24:09Because we are following a writer,
24:11we are following someone
24:12that is giving us his...
24:19account of his days.
24:22It was a very important decision to be taken,
24:29that the movie wasn't about
24:32someone living in that place
24:33in that period of time,
24:35but actually that the place
24:36was in a way the projection of the mind
24:39and the emotional state of this person.
24:42I'm not queer.
24:47I know.
24:49I'm disembodied.
24:52For both Barrows
24:53and the character of William Lee.
24:56So the decision was taken immediately
24:59to go, let's say, artificial,
25:02to recreate the world.
25:04I'm happy you say that it's completely real
25:07and yet completely invented
25:09because that was the strange line
25:11that we were trying to cross.
25:12And there's something about...
25:14Please tell me if I'm wrong,
25:15but there's also something
25:17in the way you design the landscape
25:19and you design about the way
25:21the precision,
25:22in the composition of those landscapes
25:24that reminds me of the very old postcard
25:26of another time or something
25:27that it feels like
25:29when you were like about the elements,
25:31the depth,
25:32there was something there
25:33that felt like coming from another time,
25:36from that time exactly.
25:37We definitely reviewed a lot of...
25:39with my production designer, Stefano Baezzi,
25:42we reviewed a lot of pictures of the times
25:45and postcards of the times.
25:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:47So I'm not wrong.
25:48Yeah, no, no, not at all.
25:49Not at all.
25:50We even use in a moment,
25:52he's looking at sort of a cursor
25:54where you see the corrida.
25:59That is another piece
26:00that comes from the time.
26:02And there is a sense of nostalgia
26:05in that imagery,
26:06but at the same time and longing,
26:09at the same time is an efficient signal
26:12of the reality of these people at the times.
26:14What I love is that
26:15you found like a kind of balance
26:19between a representation
26:21of that period of time
26:22without being too fetishist about it.
26:25Thank you, I like that.
26:28Apart from the opening sequence
26:30where you did all those stills,
26:31that was very fetish.
26:34But apart from that,
26:35but there's something about
26:37the way you use production design.
26:39That's why I feel it feels real.
26:41It feels like I'm not distracted
26:44by the elements.
26:45I'm immersed in a new time,
26:48all in the past.
26:49You understand what I mean?
26:50Yes, I do.
26:51And that's also, I guess,
26:52probably thanks to
26:54the wonderful performances.
26:56Because you know,
26:57like you have these people
26:58like Lee and Allerton,
26:59everybody else.
27:00You have Daniel Craig and Drew Starkey,
27:02Jason Schwartz.
27:03And they inhabit the place
27:05with the boldness
27:06that makes us believe.
27:08They are magnetic.
27:10I love the way you approach
27:14the vulnerability of humans.
27:19And I love how...
27:21Which is exactly what you do.
27:23Because if you think of the arc
27:24of Paul Atreides and Chani
27:26and the way that they are doomed,
27:29they meet like Lee and Allerton
27:32and they are never going to be able
27:34to be apart from one another,
27:36but they are both doomed
27:38by their position in their world.
27:39By the context.
27:40Yeah.
27:41Which eventually,
27:41like I think both movies
27:44are phantasmagorical,
27:46but both movies are very intimate.
27:48Yeah, at the core of Dune Part Two,
27:52I kept saying to my crew,
27:53if we don't believe in their love story,
27:55there's no movie.
27:56The whole structure of the screenplay
27:57was based on that relationship.
27:59I'd very much like to be equal to you.
28:03Maybe I'll show you the way.
28:05I will hate myself.
28:06We were not talking about
28:09the way you are,
28:11because I think it's very difficult
28:14to represent sexuality on screen.
28:16I think it's that...
28:18So you feel the realism of it,
28:20you feel the tension of it,
28:22the vulnerability.
28:23And I wonder how you do that.
28:25I wonder how you were able to go
28:27so to the point
28:29where you were able to go
28:30so to the point
28:32to go so to approach it
28:35in such a cinematic
28:36and such a pure and human
28:39and with so much empathy
28:40and feeling the beauty of it
28:44and at the same time,
28:47how do you approach it with your actors?
28:49How do you do it, Luca?
28:50How can you go
28:55where the actor will be
28:56absolutely vulnerable like that?
28:58To be candid, I feel that
29:02that to me, if I'm making movies,
29:04is to be alive and to live.
29:07So I live in through my movies.
29:11Probably I am able to bring
29:14into the movies a lot of what I feel
29:17in a very relentless way.
29:20So when you approach that
29:23with your actors
29:25and they feel that
29:27you are sharing a sort of fragility,
29:32emotional fragility,
29:34and that we are concurring together
29:35to bring to life something
29:37that is so intimate,
29:39that starts from a very honest relationship
29:42with myself in the first place,
29:44the material, the novel.
29:47Then they feel free.
29:50Because I think the important thing
29:51is to let them feel completely free,
29:54non-self-conscious,
29:56do not that they shouldn't think
29:57about their public image or any of that.
30:01So that becomes everything collapses
30:03in that moment of intimacy
30:05in a way that once it's done,
30:09we also pinch ourselves and say,
30:10oh, we did it.
30:12How did you do that?
30:14But in order to get that intimacy,
30:16you have to make sure that they know
30:18that you are investing yourself
30:21into it completely, I would say.
30:22Yeah, because they have to trust you.
30:24Absolutely.
30:24I think so, right?
30:25Yeah, yeah, and it's like
30:28when you do the choreographs,
30:30is it something that you,
30:31how do you approach it?
30:32I mean, when you sat
30:33and you start to discuss about,
30:35say, we're going to make love like that.
30:36Usually I use my wonderful friend,
30:39Fernanda Perez,
30:40who is the makeup artist of all my movies.
30:42Fernanda, come here,
30:43I can show them what we should do.
30:45Okay, okay, okay, okay.
30:46Sometimes, keep it light as well,
30:48like make it fun.
30:50Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:51And ridiculous.
30:52But then when you start
30:53When we were doing Call Me By Your Name
30:55and Elio has masturbated on the pitch,
31:01then he has fallen asleep
31:02and then Oliver shows up
31:06and they have this moment of conversation.
31:08It's a bit salacious.
31:09Oliver hits the pitch with the cum.
31:11So it seems to be another heightened moment of sex.
31:14And then eventually,
31:15the both of them confess to each other
31:17that they are really desperate
31:18at the perspective that
31:19the summer is ending.
31:21The summer is ending.
31:23So Elio starts to cry.
31:25We were shooting in an actual attic
31:27in the villa where we were shooting,
31:28which was filled of mices everywhere.
31:32We didn't almost do anything there.
31:34We just step in.
31:35And there was Sayoun Boumouk Diprom,
31:37the wonderful director of photography of the movie,
31:40and the script supervisor, Rachel.
31:44That's it, three people.
31:45I was nearby because I'd never been in the room
31:49when they shoot particularly intimate scenes
31:51because I don't want to intrude.
31:52I describe everything, but then I go.
31:55Okay, sorry.
31:57You describe and then I go.
31:58Okay, with the camera?
31:59They have to make love with the camera.
32:01Okay, interesting, interesting, interesting.
32:03So when the movie,
32:04when we arrived with a cut
32:06and we were all shocked by the intensity
32:08of the performance of Armie Hammer and Timmy,
32:13I moved into the room to say,
32:14thank you, that's done, fun.
32:16I look into the corner where the camera was
32:18and there was this wonderful, wonderful gentleman,
32:21Sayoun Boumouk Diprom,
32:23who was sobbing behind the camera and crying
32:27and he was really desperate
32:29because the summer of Alien Oliver was coming to an end.
32:33That is the miracle of cinema, I would say,
32:35and the generosity of everyone involved.
32:38Do you agree with me that we do somehow,
32:40sometimes with the story we tell
32:43through the movies we make,
32:45not only the movies and the stories and the characters,
32:47but we also tell, it's also a documentary on the actors.
32:51Both of us, we did a little bit of a Timothée Chalamet.
32:56Documentary, yes.
32:59Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true, it's true.
33:01How he slowly aged and grew up and from movie to movie.
33:04The first day of shooting Call Me By Your Name,
33:07I was like, wow, I was so happy
33:10because he's so intelligent, so articulate as an actor
33:13and also so candid as an actor.
33:17My passion for capturing, stealing from actors,
33:23their inside, their soul,
33:26and at the same time having great performances,
33:29was so satisfied.
33:30I told him, I said, you are fantastic.
33:32I mean, this was literally first time
33:35shooting with him, first day,
33:37and I was already like, wow, this guy.
33:38Yeah, I understand, I understand that.
33:40And he was like perfect
33:42and he was like such confidence,
33:47assurance during that movie.
33:49And I think that he has an incredible trajectory.
33:54When I started to work with him on Dune part one,
33:57I felt like a responsibility
33:59because I did feel very quickly
34:02that he was not used to a movie of that size.
34:05He was, I think, impressed by the amount of the pressure
34:08of other actors and more specifically,
34:11how to protect, how could he protect his own focus
34:18and find, in fact, just to define himself.
34:22I mean, he was a young adult.
34:23I mean, trying still, his identity was not solidified.
34:29I felt as an actor when the camera rolled, absolutely,
34:34but outside the camera,
34:37I felt he needed to be protected
34:39and taking care of the pressure.
34:43I felt that and I realized
34:45and we became close friends because of that.
34:49I think that, and it was Me Too,
34:52the first time I was making a movie of that scale.
34:57But when he came back on part two,
35:00he had to work with you again and on other movies.
35:03And I felt the amount of how he did grow up between both.
35:08And when he came out on part two,
35:10he was really like a leading man.
35:12He was more assured,
35:13he knew where to put his limits, how to focus.
35:16And again, it was a documentary
35:18because Paul Atreides' arc was also Timothy's arc.
35:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:22Interesting, yes.
35:23Interestingly, yes.
35:24It was very moving for me to have that privilege
35:28to see him growing in front of the camera.
35:32Now about Zendaya,
35:35I will say that it's always fascinating.
35:38I don't know if you have the same feeling
35:41when working with Timothy,
35:43you feel that you, in some ways, own Timothy.
35:47I mean, there's something, he's an actor
35:50that you know his sensibility, you know his work.
35:54And then when you see him on another project,
35:57sometimes it's beautiful to be surprised.
36:01And when I saw Challenger, I had that with Zendaya.
36:05I was like, in a great way,
36:08destabilized and surprised
36:09how she revealed another side of herself
36:12that I thought was absolutely incredible.
36:15About 15 seconds there,
36:16we were actually playing tennis
36:19and we understood each other completely.
36:21So did everyone watching.
36:23It was like we were in love.
36:25Kind of wit, and there's something there
36:27that you were able to create.
36:28Yeah, she pulled a wonderful,
36:30almost like Preston Sturgess kind of sense of humor.
36:33Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
36:34Like an old Hollywood classic cinema.
36:36Yeah, yeah.
36:36Like a leading lady and fierceness.
36:41Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:42That kind of...
36:43Also, Zendaya is not scared at all
36:46to play with the unlikeability of the character
36:51in Challengers.
36:52You know, like she's kind of a tough character
36:55who does things that can be considered unlikable,
36:59but then she conquers you completely.
37:02Yeah, she's very playful in that regard.
37:04But I was really happily and excited
37:07to watch her in Challengers,
37:09revealing a side that I have not seen really.
37:12And that is always a pure pleasure.
37:15I don't know if it does that to you
37:17when you look at your actors in other movies, but...
37:20Yeah, yeah.
37:22And I'm proud.
37:23Yeah, yeah, that feeling of being proud.
37:24And I'm very proud, like a dad, you know?
37:27Yeah, exactly.
37:28I feel like, wow,
37:30when you see that they command our gaze as audience,
37:33not anymore as directors,
37:35and they do so in these movies
37:36that are so entertaining.
37:38They lead them.
37:39I'm so happy.
37:40It's beautiful.
37:41Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
37:43It's interesting.
37:45If I mention a title of a movie in your mind,
37:48if I say M from Fritz Lang,
37:51or there's an image that comes in your mind spontaneously,
37:56because there's always a shock
37:58that imprints somewhere in the back of your brain.
38:01When I think of queer,
38:03the first image that comes in my mind
38:04is Daniel Craig blowing that blood balloon.
38:10It's an image that I was like...
38:18That's an image that I pursued doing for like 40 years.
38:23It's so powerful.
38:24It comes from my life,
38:25because I almost never said the story.
38:30I was 10 years old,
38:32and my family in Sicily,
38:35my father's aunt was in another village far from Palermo.
38:39She was old,
38:40so we went to pick her to bring her with us at home.
38:44Everybody was preparing,
38:46and then the car was in front of the building,
38:49and I was coming down the stairwell,
38:51and I opened the door to the outside,
38:53and I see this old lady blowing a big balloon,
38:56a red balloon,
38:57and I thought like, wow,
39:00auntie's blowing a balloon.
39:02She was like 90.
39:03And then I'm transfixed by this image,
39:05and the balloon becomes bigger and bigger
39:07and redder and redder and redder,
39:08and it still pops and collapse.
39:11She had an hemorrhagic in front of me.
39:16That image has been haunting me forever.
39:19And because Lee loves Allerton with all his being,
39:27and I would say also Allerton does love Lee
39:29with all his being.
39:30Yeah, of course.
39:31But they are like caged in their own bodies.
39:34What ayahuasca would do immediately to them?
39:37Liberate completely the hearts in a literal way.
39:41And then I came back to my experience with my aunt.
39:47So when we had to do it,
39:48it was interesting because I could not forget that moment.
39:52So when we were doing it in the first place
39:55with special effect and makeup
39:56and then enhancing in visual effect,
39:59I knew what was not working
40:01because I remembered the right thing in reality.
40:05It is a very powerful image.
40:07For me, it was kind of linked with the soul
40:09or like something that is coming out of the body
40:15that was hidden that needed to exist.
40:17Exactly.
40:19And it's like connected with the death of the soul.
40:23And I was floored by that image.
40:26And then by those,
40:29when both men were making love after
40:31and they were going,
40:33their hands were going under their skin.
40:35And I thought it was so sensual and beautiful
40:37and nightmarish at the same time.
40:39There was about like being one.
40:42Which is, of course, the idea of fusing yourself with one.
40:46Yeah, yeah.
40:47It's scary to people
40:48because you feel the idea that self-annihilation in the other.
40:52But in this case was a portal open
40:55for the two of them to finally accept their mutual love.
40:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:00And then they cannot continue
41:02because they are too scared of that.
41:05Yeah.
41:07On that, we thought a lot of the work of Francis Bacon.
41:11Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:12There was a beautiful exhibition recently,
41:15two years, three years ago,
41:16about sexuality in Francis Bacon.
41:18There were a lot of paintings of couples
41:21fusing into one another.
41:22So that was like a very long process.
41:25I'm sure that the same can be said
41:27of the incredible sequence of the arena of the Arconne.
41:32Where in order to create that quality of image,
41:36you had to go through special makeup
41:40and then special post-production, I guess, right?
41:43Yeah, yeah.
41:43And of course, you use a special film, I know.
41:45Yeah, I will go back to that.
41:47But before, I don't want to, you're going too fast.
41:52When you did that sequence
41:54where both men were making love and going,
41:57is it like you shot them caressing themselves
42:02and then you did the visual effects on top of it?
42:05The first thing was to invite
42:08these two incredible choreographers,
42:10Sol Leone and Paul Lightfoot.
42:12Okay.
42:12Who are like some of the greatest choreographers
42:15in the world of theater and dance.
42:18And I invited them to choreograph that.
42:21And they worked with Daniel and Drew
42:25for like a couple of months before.
42:27A couple of months?
42:28Yes.
42:29That's some lead time to rehearse.
42:32Which was a great way of breaking the ice
42:34of the proximity of the bodies.
42:37Because they were like in underwear
42:39rehearsing this thing forever.
42:41That's brilliant.
42:42So they become used.
42:43They become friends.
42:44They become used to their own smells and proximity.
42:47So when you direct them?
42:48When we shot the scenes of sex after that,
42:52they were used to the smell of the other.
42:53They were used to the proximity of the skin.
42:55They were like, yeah, yeah, I see.
42:56So that's what the first thing we did.
42:59Then we had to prepare a special flooring
43:04on the jungle scene that was created in Cinecittà.
43:08We had to put mattresses
43:09and then on top of mattresses,
43:10we have to create to put something
43:12that could be a placeholder for the earth.
43:15So we put coffee.
43:16Okay, okay.
43:17Tons of coffee, great grinded coffee.
43:19And basically we shot it as simple as possible.
43:23Like, you remember it was like
43:25almost looking at them, nothing special.
43:27But the choreography was incredible.
43:29And so every time they were touching
43:31eventually in post-production,
43:33that was almost a year of work.
43:35We had to create the illusion
43:36that the hands were going inside.
43:39Because it was perfect.
43:40It was like a...
43:41From you, this is like, wow.
43:43No, no, no, no, seriously.
43:45I'm not...
43:47It's just, it was like all that sequence
43:50from what it evoked.
43:54It's images that are coming
43:56from deep in the subconscious
43:58that are like coming and are fresh.
44:01I have not seen before.
44:03But technically they are perfect too.
44:04I mean, it's like, so I was really impressed.
44:07And I think it's important to be connected
44:09with the subconscious in movies.
44:11Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:11We do create the images
44:14from the subconscious
44:16to kind of like let an audience
44:21maybe change their mind, I would say.
44:23But I would say, yeah, the...
44:27So you're technically saying
44:29that we are manipulative bastards.
44:32If you want.
44:33No, we are.
44:34I think we know better, that's why.
44:35No, no, no, no, I agree.
44:37But there's something that is...
44:39As I was watching Queer,
44:41there's a question that...
44:43Because I do it too.
44:45And I'm always questioning this.
44:47The idea of putting dreams into a movie,
44:51a movie being an awakened dream by itself.
44:55When you watch a movie on the screen,
44:57you're watching it and dream.
45:00And to put a dream in the dream
45:01is I always question.
45:02I always fought against it
45:04and I'm always doing it.
45:06And every time I'm doing it,
45:07I'm always like feeling like, why?
45:09But it's like, I think the importance
45:11of dreams in my life are too present.
45:15And as you had beautiful dream sequences
45:18or lyrical moments in the movie
45:21that were linked with the subconscious
45:24that were part of their dream state
45:26or the drug experiment.
45:29And I wonder what were your thoughts
45:32about putting dreams on celluloids?
45:36It's too gluttony an opportunity
45:40not to do it.
45:41You know, like, because as you said,
45:43the movies are dreams per se.
45:45The idea of going into the actual language
45:48of the dreams that we can connect
45:51with our own experience of dreams,
45:53which zero for me on framing and editing.
45:57Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:58The greatest sequences of dreams ever made
46:01are for me, the wild strawberries,
46:05wild strawberries, dream sequences
46:08and Rosemary's baby dream sequences.
46:10If I think of like this.
46:13And it's all about the editing and the framing.
46:16Bergman did some amazing.
46:19Amazing.
46:20The hour of the wolf, incredible dreams.
46:24I like the idea of dreams
46:25because in a way they can enhance the idea
46:30that the experience is a terminal experience
46:33for an audience.
46:34Because eventually my goal
46:36is to really shake the audience
46:39and make them be like in places
46:41that they are not normally going to go.
46:44Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:44I don't know if I succeed,
46:45but that's what I want to do.
46:46Yeah, the ambition, ambition.
46:48The thing to go on
46:50with your question about the arena
46:52is there was this idea
46:54of to create an awakened dream
46:56that you are like watching.
46:57It's not a dream in the movie,
46:58but I'm just trying to move.
46:59An hallucination.
47:00Yeah, to go close to that state
47:02where you will be on another planet
47:05where the only thing that will,
47:07the only manifestation from nature
47:08will be the light.
47:10Because that planet,
47:11the people there are disconnected
47:14from nature, from their ecosystem.
47:18It's an industrial planet.
47:20And I like in the book,
47:23an idea that I love
47:24is how Dune is an exploration
47:28of the impact of the ecosystem on humans,
47:32how it informs about the technology,
47:33culture, religion,
47:34beliefs, et cetera, behaviors.
47:37But so on Arrakis, it's easy.
47:40The desert inform everything
47:41about the Fremen.
47:42But I was feeling that it was very sparse
47:44about Gedi Prime, the Arcanine.
47:46And I came with this idea
47:48that maybe the light could be something.
47:49I had not seen this idea,
47:51I think on movie before,
47:52where the sunlight
47:53will transform the colors.
47:55I mean, it will kill the colors
47:56and still instead of revealing it,
47:59and bringing something
48:00about the psyche of these people,
48:03if your own sun destroy colors
48:06and the idea that politically,
48:10the idea of binary,
48:11the things are binaries,
48:12that it's very a fascist world.
48:14You know, there's something like
48:15of good and evil
48:16and it's something that is a primal.
48:20Also the idea that the plant soleil
48:24and the harshness of it,
48:26it's the darker.
48:30It's for exploring the darker side,
48:33the more really like violent side.
48:38There is a beautiful contradiction
48:39with the clarity of vision
48:41and the brightness of vision
48:43and the darkness of the moment.
48:45And it's...
48:47Was it negative film stock that you shoot?
48:50Not negative, X-ray.
48:52We shoot with IR, infrared cameras.
48:55In fact, it's a camera,
48:56it's a regular camera,
48:57but in the cameras,
48:59in the Alexa cameras,
49:00there's like a filter that block the IR.
49:04And Greg Fraser went into the software
49:07and the camera were redesigned
49:13to just let the infrared coming in,
49:15nothing else.
49:18And with a specific filter
49:19and that going fucking up the cameras,
49:26they inverted
49:28and it became like
49:30just about capturing infrared.
49:36I said to Greg,
49:36I would love to find the alien black and white.
49:39I would love the light to feel
49:40that it's coming from another sun,
49:42from another reality
49:44and that it feels alien to us.
49:47The light will be the main alien element.
49:55I felt a strange radioactive kind of heat
50:01watching the sequence.
50:02Yeah, yeah.
50:05The idea of infrared
50:06came from my cinematographer, Greg Fraser,
50:08and we experimented
50:10with different kind of black and white,
50:12with film, digital, everything.
50:16But it's really infrared
50:17that brought that kind of eerie
50:19where you see through the skin,
50:21you see the veins,
50:22the eyes become very sharp and dark,
50:25like insect.
50:28But it's very unpredictable.
50:31We had to redo all the costumes
50:32because we realized that,
50:34like for instance,
50:35my pants could be white
50:36and my shirt gray with infrared.
50:40It's not about the color.
50:40So you had to create the costumes
50:42in the right color that fit the wear.
50:45With the right fabrics,
50:46with the right textures
50:47to make sure that Fedrota
50:49will not look like a clown
50:50walking in the arena,
50:51that he will stay black
50:52that the Bene Gesserit sister
50:53will go from black to white,
50:55that Lady Fenring
50:56will stay the same color
50:57that I had to play with.
50:58In what part of the process
50:59you realized that?
51:01In prep.
51:02Yes, in early prep
51:03when we decided to play
51:04with those cameras
51:05as we were experimenting.
51:08We realized that quickly
51:10and then we had to adjust.
51:12What is the part of the process
51:14that you feel that you are most like,
51:16I wish it could be faster?
51:19Honestly,
51:20the part that I wish was faster
51:22was writing.
51:23Because I feel it's a slow process.
51:26And when you talk about the fact
51:28that Queer was written
51:29in a month and a half
51:30or something like that,
51:31I'm like floored.
51:32I'm envious.
51:33I'm jealous.
51:35It takes time to make
51:36the adaptation of both Dune.
51:38It's like a lot of error and mistakes.
51:42Also, I'm always struggling
51:44with the fact that I'm writing
51:46I'm always struggling
51:47with the ambition of it
51:49and the limitation of budget.
51:51And because those movies,
51:52people say,
51:53oh, those are big, huge.
51:55But they are made from a fraction
51:57of the budget of a Star Wars movie.
51:59Those are a small, big film.
52:02Which is a very Kubrickian thing.
52:04Because Kubrick was always very
52:06considerate in his budgets.
52:08The scope was huge.
52:09But the movies were really...
52:11I think that it's a way
52:12to limit yourself,
52:15to create...
52:16And control more.
52:17To control and to spark new ideas.
52:21Because when you have
52:23all the money in the world,
52:24I think it's a danger
52:25where you fall into...
52:27There are many dangers there.
52:28One is like you become
52:29lazy creatively.
52:30I think so.
52:31Two, you have a lot of control
52:32from other people.
52:34And I think that both of us,
52:35we don't like to lose
52:37our control, of course.
52:39And also you stop thinking
52:41things that you can find
52:42in different ways.
52:43They're not...
52:44There's something about the restrictions.
52:45I strongly believe in that.
52:48From LP restrictions.
52:50When you have a box
52:52and you have to respect that box.
52:53Otherwise, if it's free-for-all,
52:56I think I would be afraid
52:57of having no limitations.
52:59In fact, I will not like...
53:00I will not want to have
53:02no limitations.
53:03I think that it always
53:04pisses me off.
53:05It always secures me
53:06in some way to be more creative
53:08and find new ideas
53:09that will be definitely more
53:11cinematic and interesting
53:12than what I've done
53:13if I had all the money in the world.
53:15That's what I think.
53:16But of course, I know.
53:19I've been there
53:19when I was a younger filmmaker.
53:23Or I know some friends
53:24that are struggling
53:25when you have not enough money
53:26and it's like then
53:27there's a danger there.
53:28I'm not saying that.
53:29But you understand what I mean.
53:30I do understand, totally.
53:32And I think it's just
53:35being careful in not trying
53:37to do things that you cannot do
53:38if you can't.
53:39Yeah, yeah.
53:39But the limitations,
53:41even the technical limitation
53:43is a very good thing.
53:44I love it because
53:46it makes you think more
53:48and find more solutions, I would say.
53:50But a movie like Queer,
53:52it feels like there's
53:53a total adequation,
53:55like a total balance
53:57between the budget
53:58and what the movie...
53:59I mean, when I watch the movie,
54:00I don't see any...
54:01I don't feel you are limited at all.
54:03I feel you express everything.
54:05I mean, the movie feels perfect.
54:07Like everything is...
54:09We had to fight a lot.
54:12It was a long process.
54:15But I think for what the movie is
54:17in terms of the story
54:20and the emotions,
54:21I'm very happy of what we had
54:23in our hands to work with.
54:25Particularly, I mean, the cast,
54:27which was fantastic.
54:29I love my actors.
54:30Do you love your actors?
54:31I love my actors.
54:34When I did part two,
54:36I came out from...
54:37We did part one
54:39and then did the press tour,
54:41award tour,
54:42and went into prep right away.
54:43There was no rest time
54:46between both movies.
54:47So when I started part two,
54:49I was already honestly tired.
54:52And the thing that kept me alive
54:54through the shoot were actors.
54:57To bring them back, to be together.
54:58No, but also the performances.
55:01I'm talking on a daily basis.
55:04Waking up tired in the morning,
55:06but going on set
55:07and being fired up, excited,
55:10and finding my energy
55:12from the performances.
55:13They really...
55:14I owe them everything.
55:16And part two, they kept me alive
55:20on a daily basis.
55:21It's crazy.
55:23I wanted to ask you, Denis,
55:25that you are ambitious for the future.
55:28Your filmmaking future.
55:30I would love,
55:31I would sincerely love
55:33to be able to make a movie
55:35that will be stronger
55:43with the language of cinema.
55:47I feel that I'm learning my craft,
55:52learning how to use the language
55:53that I barely use the power
55:56of that language.
55:57And I would love to push it.
55:58I would love to be able
56:00to bring something with less dialogue,
56:02that is more cinematic.
56:03Like the movies used to be made,
56:06like A Wage of Fears
56:08from Henri-Georges Clouseau.
56:10Movies like that,
56:10that are like pure cinematic gesture.
56:13I would love to be able to do that.
56:16I have not been yet.
56:18You're very modest.
56:20And I think you are...
56:21No, no, no, no, no.
56:21It's not...
56:22I understand what you mean.
56:24It's honest.
56:25It's too different.
56:26I know exactly where...
56:28You know.
56:31Yeah, I think you will add more pearls
56:33to the necklace of these forging prototypes,
56:38because I think you do prototypes.
56:40And I think it's important
56:42to do prototypes
56:43more than follow what has been done.
56:46It's a massive compliment
56:48that you're saying,
56:49but I think you do prototypes too
56:50in that regard.
56:51Me too, I try.
56:53I try.
56:54And I think we both are...
56:57hard workers, people.
56:59We do work hard,
57:01that we are very committed.
57:03But I feel that I'm very lucky
57:06to be able to do what I do.
57:08And when I wake up and say,
57:09OK, I can do another movie,
57:11it's like, wow, what a privilege.
57:13It's a crazy privilege.
57:15Yeah.
57:16It's like, it's a privilege
57:18and it's a responsibility too,
57:20when you take a camera.
57:24Every time I finish a movie,
57:26I ask myself, should I go on?
57:29Is the flame still there?
57:32I take the liberty to choose cinema
57:35after each movie
57:36and feeling deeply inside me
57:38if I still have that fire.
57:41And I think that I will
57:44try to make movies
57:45as long as I have that fire.
57:46The day I don't feel the fire, I stop.
57:47And that's something I said recently to someone.
57:51I am terrified of being in a place
57:53where I'm doing something
57:54and I don't want to do it.
57:56So our task for the future
57:58will be to really understand
58:00when we don't have the fire anymore.
58:02Yeah, exactly.
58:03It was fantastic for me too.
58:04Wonderful. Merci.
58:05Merci à toi.