On this episode of Pucks with Haggs, host Joe Haggerty is joined by New England Hockey Journal writers Evan Marinofsky and Mark Divver as the Bruins continue to stumble. Joe, Evan and Mark discuss what's wrong with the last place Bruins and what needs to be fixed. That, and much more!
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00:00Welcome to another edition of the Pucks with Hags podcast, powered by PrizePix, the exclusive
00:09daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network. I believe this is the 136th episode of the
00:16Pucks with Hags podcast. I didn't get a chance to look it up, so we're going to go with that
00:19and stick with it. I'm your host, Joe Hagerty. You can find my work at joehagerty.substack.com.
00:25Subscribe and get yourself a premium membership. You get all of my NHL and Bruins writing sent
00:29straight directly to your inbox via email. I also write columns three times a week. That's
00:34thrice weekly for the Boston Sports Journal after Bruins games. So always check my thoughts
00:39out the morning after the Bruins games on bostonsportsjournal.com. With me today, I
00:44have the New England Hockey Journal tag team of Evan Marinovsky and Mark Diver. Boys, thanks
00:50for joining me.
00:52Thanks for having us.
00:53Thank you, Joe.
00:54You got it. My pleasure. Let's also thank our sponsors real quick. PrizePix, who we
01:01just mentioned. Download the PrizePix app today and use the code CLNS and get $50 instantly
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01:29purchase. Download GameTime today. What time is it? GameTime.
01:33All right. Man, we're recording this episode after a 2-0 loss to the Philadelphia Flyers.
01:41It's like one step forward and one step back for the Boston Bruins. I look at the standings
01:46this morning. They are 4-5-1 on the season. They are dead last in the Atlantic division.
01:51They are second to last with a minus seven goal differential in the Atlantic division.
01:55Only Montreal has a worse goal differential. Obviously, it's the first month. It's still
02:00pretty early. There's still a few points out of a playoff spot and even second place in
02:06the Atlantic division. But I'm just curious, Mark, we'll start with you, what your thoughts
02:12are and what you've seen so far. I'm going to save mine until the end, but I'm really
02:17curious to hear what you guys have to say and where you think this is all headed.
02:23Well, a couple things jump out for me. They don't look like they're hard to play against
02:35at all, which has been a staple of the Bruins for as long as I can remember, when they're
02:41good anyway. And they're boring a lot of the time. Last night, that was boring. I mean,
02:51the Washington New York Rangers game last night was way better. There were fights, there
02:57were goals, great chances, much more excitement than in the Bruins game. It's going to be
03:06a long year if that continues. But yeah, they are in last place, but they're only three
03:15points out of second place. So a couple of wins and maybe they get on track. I thought
03:22the Toronto thing would maybe give them a boost, but clearly it didn't. Winning that
03:28game the way they won, just to get a W, not that they were dominant or anything like that
03:35in that game, but they got the W, but it didn't carry over at all. So, you know, the
03:44fan base trades, burn it down, tank, go for the number one pick, call up James Higgins,
03:54Dean Lysell, all the greatest hits, the greatest hits of the disgruntled Bruins fan base. They're
04:00all playing this morning. So yeah, they definitely are. And look, I agree with you. It was definitely
04:07boring last night. And like the problem I had was like watching it. I'm like, they're
04:12not winning this game. I thought that very early on and I was waiting. It's basically
04:17like you're waiting for the mistake where the Flyers are finally going to score and
04:21take the lead. And then in the third period, you're waiting until the end when they pull
04:26the goalie and you knew it was going to be an empty net and that was going to be it.
04:30That was a bad Flyers team, not a good Flyers team. And you could see it last night. They
04:35were trying to give the game to the Bruins in the third period and the Bruins just didn't
04:40want to take it. You know, they three shots on net, didn't seize any of the opportunities.
04:44Flyers take a bad, too many men on the ice penalties. The Bruins can't capitalize. The
04:49Bruins were giving the Flyers tons of chances, like not tons, but a couple of really good
04:54chances in the third period to score. And the Flyers just can't execute close to the
04:59net. They made some pretty good plays to get around there, but they didn't have anybody
05:02that could actually execute and score until they got the empty netter. But it just didn't
05:06feel to me like at any point there was any urgency whatsoever from the Bruins to win
05:11that game last night and and pull it out. Not even the the perfunctory like third period.
05:17We're going to give it a shot now after like skating around like it's the ice capades for
05:21the first 40 minutes of the game, you know, and then they finally get it in gear for the
05:24last 20. There was like none of that last night either. You know, Evan, I'm going to
05:31throw it to you before I before I really go in depth on this. But the one other thing
05:37I would say is the Toronto game. Yes, they got the result, but I also thought it was
05:40horrendous that they gave up that goal at the end to tie it up and put it in overtime.
05:45And it was another very problematic sign from this team of things that we've seen all year,
05:50where there's there's real problems and issues that I think need to be addressed.
05:56But I also think they're not nearly as bad as we've seen, too. And that's part of the
06:01problem, I think, is they're playing well below their weight class, their talent level,
06:05like they're sealing all that stuff right now. Evan, your thoughts on what you've seen
06:09the first month here? Yeah, I mean, I think you're getting the worst case scenario from
06:14almost every player. I mean, you're getting the worst of Trent Frederick, the worst of
06:17Morgan Geeky, the worst up until recently of Brazil, the worst of Coyle, the worst of
06:22Zaka, Marshawn Posse. I mean, defense to McAvoy, Lindholm, both Lindholms. I mean, I like so
06:28like you're getting the worst of everybody. So I agree with you, Hags, and that like they're
06:33better than this. We all think they're better than this. That's why I don't blow it up.
06:36Don't trade everybody. Right. What what concerned me about like Tuesday is, you know,
06:42Ayrson comes in with like a under 900 save percentage. I think he was like
06:47minus six in goals saved above expected. To me, like that's a game when that Elias Lindholm line
06:55puts up like two to three points each. That's like back in the day, that would be a game where
07:01like Bergeron, Marshawn, Pasternak would just they'd win 5-1 and four of the goals would come
07:06from that line. And I'm not saying that Zaka, Lindholm and Pasternak are that. But against
07:13that Flyers team, they should have been. And I look at, you know, like, Mark, you mentioned like
07:19just the lack of urgency. And you saw it in the offensive zone because they would get a substantial
07:25amount of ozone time and it was all perimeter. And people go, oh, well, the Flyers, they're so
07:30selfless. They block all these shots. And it's like, sure. But that's also a sign that you're
07:34not getting to high danger areas. That's a sign that you're stationary. That's a sign that you're
07:38doing things that are expected. McAvoy just shooting pucks into guys in front of him on
07:44power plays like that to me is what's so concerning in that Toronto win, I thought would be sort of a
07:53spark. And instead, you're you're seeing the complete opposite. You're seeing that's an
07:59anomaly. That game looked like, I mean, they've been playing bad now for over a week. And again,
08:06I just go back to Wednesday's, a game that, excuse me, Tuesday nights, a game that you need
08:12those top guys to actually produce. And I mean, again, three shots in the third is egregious.
08:18And, you know, Denver and I on Friday talked and I'm sure we will talk about this today. So I'm
08:23not, you know, I don't want to jump the gun here, but Montgomery. Yes. Talked about that a lot.
08:28And, you know, I don't think this is all his fault. I don't know. This is on the players for
08:33sure. But how long can this go on for before they look to make a move? Because you can't,
08:38you can't trade everybody, unfortunately. So I just, I wonder when that seat gets even hotter
08:44because I do think it is, it's getting hot. I do think it's getting hot. Yeah. And I thought it
08:49was interesting last night that Montgomery talked about not only the players, not good enough,
08:54but, you know, saying him taking some culpability and saying the game plan maybe wasn't, you know,
08:59where it needed to be either. And like, that's on me. And like, he was pulling the coach's move of
09:04accepting some of the responsibility along with the players, which is different than what he
09:08usually says in the past after things like this. And I think it's a sign that, you know, and we've
09:14seen multiple signs from Jim Montgomery over this year that he's feeling the pressure and he knows
09:18that the heat is on for him. And it obviously is without a contract to start this year in the last
09:24year of his deal. But like the problem I have and what I see is like, quite honestly, like the effort
09:33level is not where it needs to be. Like I just, when yesterday Jim Montgomery talks about puck
09:41pursuit being like the number one area that he's worried about, he's talking about the back check
09:45and the forecheck. He's actually, he's talking about actually going after the puck, like being
09:50hungry for the puck, hunting the puck. If you lose the puck, you know, making determination to go get
09:57it back, like playing relentless. How much did we hear over the summer and definitely in training
10:04camp that the Bruins and some of the players that they brought in, they wanted to start playing a
10:08little bit more like the Panthers. They wanted to be a relentless forechecking team that was going
10:12to attack you and, you know, really be in your face and do all these different things.
10:17And we're not seeing any of that. Like the other day at practice, Jim Montgomery had them doing a
10:23basic high school back checking drill. That drill where you've got four lines, you've got two lines
10:29of two guys that are passing the puck to each other shooting. And then the next two guys go
10:34and they're chasing them on the back check down the other end of the ice and going back and forth.
10:39And that's like basic hustle back check, like 101 drill. Like if he's trying to coax effort,
10:48like basic professional effort level of puck pursuit out of the players that he has right now,
10:55like I feel like he's in real, like I think he's in real trouble, you know, like if we're getting
11:00to this point, like he hasn't gotten to the Claude Julian when he was towards the end and he was
11:05basically throwing his hands up and saying, hey, I can't go on the ice and do it for them. Like
11:09this is on the players. He was basically like separating himself from what was going on in
11:13the ice and saying, I'm just the coach. They have to go out there and do it. We haven't seen that
11:16from Jim Montgomery yet, but I feel like we're headed in that direction where he's, he's going
11:20through all the different stages of when a coach is feeling the heat of reacting in different ways
11:25to try to get a spark from his team and to try to get something from him. All right, let's take a
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13:02the $50 bonus. It's guaranteed. PrizePix, run your game. But like ultimately, I think Evan and Mark,
13:12you're totally right. Like the fan base screaming and crying for Providence call-ups, for big trades,
13:17for all this like stuff, the roster changes. It's not happening. They're not changing the roster.
13:22They're not bringing in a whole bunch of different players. The guys in Providence are not going to
13:26make a big impact on this team. Yes, they're probably going to sign Tyler Johnson at some
13:29point and maybe he helps them a little bit. But I think that's really the only place in the short
13:33term that any help is coming. The biggest shake-up move that I think they can make, because clearly
13:40waving Riley Tufte and sending him to Providence is not a big shake-up move, is firing the coach,
13:45is making a coaching change and bringing in one of these assistants of which, for my money,
13:50there's three of them that could potentially be head coaches. It's Chris Kelly, it's Joe Sacco,
13:55it's Jay Leach. Any one of them, I think, could be an internal. No goalie, Bob. No goalie, Bob.
13:59I think goalie Bob doesn't want that job. But if you're Jim Montgomery and you're looking around
14:03on the bench, you're seeing a bunch of guys that are kind of like, you know, sitting there waiting
14:07for their opportunity. It's got to be an extremely difficult place for him to be, Mark. But like,
14:13I just feel like this is the inevitable road that we're going down, given the way the team is
14:17playing, given the situation that the Bruins set up with him not having an extension going into the
14:21year, that at some point there's going to be a logical time when they're going to make this move
14:25and they must have somebody in mind that is going to take over. And it just feels to me
14:30like this is a group of players, and I hate to say this about them, but it's a group of players
14:35that's waiting for some kind of change like that to happen based on what I'm seeing in the way some
14:39of these guys are playing. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I guess a question would be
14:48how soon? How soon do you do it? Because if you, I mean, they're in the thick of it right now.
14:54Nobody's out of it at this point. We're not even at Halloween yet. But boy, if this continues for
15:00a few more weeks, the hole gets deeper and, you know. Yeah, it's Thanksgiving and you're at a
15:06playoff spot. Yeah, and you know, then you're chasing all season, all season. And that's
15:15that's no way, that's a foreign situation for the Bruins over in recent years to be
15:24chasing like that instead of in the lead. But I don't know, what would be the point where
15:34they finally do pull the trigger? Is it a bad, say they go into Carolina on Thursday and get
15:41their doors blown off, which is a distinct possibility the way things have been going.
15:47Is it a bad performance that flips the switch or a long losing streak? I really don't know
15:55what it'll be. But, you know, it is up to the players, you know, to get their butts in gear
16:05here or else there will be changes starting probably with the coaching change. Yeah. I mean,
16:11don't you feel like, Mark, if this dud they threw out there on the ice last night, it happened last
16:17weekend against Toronto, this move might have already been made. Like, I feel like that's a
16:21pretty signature game, like where it was put off for a little bit, I think, based on the result
16:26and them getting that. But like, I don't feel like we're that far. I like to your point. I
16:32don't feel like they can wait very long to make this move if they feel like this is the move to
16:35be made. Yeah, well, the Toronto game, yeah, I, you know, that would be very unsweeney-like
16:45to make a decision like that this soon, this early in the season. Yeah. But, you know,
16:53maybe this is a situation where it's not his call. Maybe the words coming down from above that,
17:00hey, okay, you know, do something, let's do something. So, I mean, that'll be,
17:09that'll be something to track is who, and, you know, we probably wouldn't know until well after
17:16the fact who exactly would make that call. And, you know, it hasn't happened yet, so we can't talk
17:21about something that hasn't happened. But, you know, I don't know, ownership or Cam Neely can't
17:29be very comfortable with the way this is going. No, I got to imagine, you know, sky-high
17:35expectations. They invested a ton of money into the players they brought in over the summer. They,
17:39you know, put a lot into this roster. And to see the way it looks right now, Evan, I do feel like
17:45there's going to be pressure from ownership and the president of the club to, you know, to do
17:50something to get a change. And, you know, I just, a lot of people are saying it's a big, slow team.
17:59They got too many big players. They're not fast enough, like all this stuff, like criticizing
18:04the roster makeup. And like, they are bigger, there's no question about it. And they may not
18:08be as fast as they've been at points in the past. But I don't think this team is like too slow and
18:15too big to compete in the NHL. I don't think that what we're seeing is a direct byproduct of
18:20everybody like operating on all cylinders, Evan, and going as much as they can right now.
18:25And they're just not good enough and don't stack up to other teams across the league. I just feel
18:30like this is a roster full of players right now that for whatever reason, aren't all putting out
18:38everything that they can and something needs to happen. Yeah. The buy-in's not there. You can see
18:44it. And I think it's interesting because like good organizations don't fire coaches on a whim.
18:51Good organizations don't, you know, sort of fire coaches willy-nilly. I think this is interesting
18:55though, because, you know, you have, I think the Bruins are sort of at this crucial point where
18:59they have to figure out, do we want to invest in Jim Montgomery for the future? You know,
19:04we've seen this sort of little trial period, some very good highs, some really bad lows.
19:10I think this year was sort of going to be that X factor. And I think the other thing
19:14is, you know, the Bruins have become accustomed to starting hot the last two years. They were,
19:18you know, the best team in October. They were hot out of the gate.
19:21And maybe that is the case this year, but Hags to your point, like that urgency is not there.
19:25It's not like they're losing one goal games and it's like, Oh, they were right there. They just,
19:29you know, bad call here, this, it's just not there. And the scoring is so far from there.
19:34And I think there's some stylistic issues and the offensive zone. They don't shoot,
19:37they don't shoot the puck enough. Like, and they don't move enough. Like,
19:40and they don't get to high danger chances or high danger areas. And they're too focused on doing
19:44that. But in terms of Montgomery, like, like you asked him about, you know, is it a loss or is it
19:51a streak? I think it's a streak. And I think if they lost against Toronto and I think if last
19:56night happened the same way, I mean, what would that be four or five in a row? Like I would think
20:01it would be coming this week. I think that went on Saturday probably bought him another week or two
20:09because you're right. I mean, you start to get into mid to late November. I mean,
20:12we're two days away as we record this from November chances. Yeah, your chances dwindle
20:21obviously. And so, you know, I, I, that's the tough part. And, and as you guys said, like
20:28they have potential interns on the bench, Jay leach, Chris Kelly, Joe Sacco, like those guys
20:34are there. Um, and Montgomery's also not a Bruins guy. Like he didn't come up through the
20:41organization. Um, you know, Bruce Cassidy was Bruce Cassidy was in Providence for 10 years.
20:46And so I think that's the other thing where it's like, they don't, I don't know if they have this
20:50deep, you know, like, Oh, we, we, we brought him up, you know, he has more to give. I mean, to
20:55them, and I'm not, and I'm, I'm just saying this as an outsider, like to them, it's just another
20:59coach. And that's what the reality is with, with a lot of these NHL coaches there, you know,
21:04aside from a few, they're just kind of jags, just another guy, just another coach. And I think
21:09Montgomery is a good coach. Like I'm not saying he's not, I'm just saying that he's not a guy
21:12that was brought up in Boston and in the system. And I don't know if that bond is there to really
21:18not, you know, to give him more and more chances, especially after 2023 is playoffs.
21:23Um, I think they really wanted to get to a game seven last year against Florida. And then the
21:27start this season with a roster, they invested a lot of money into, yeah, it's a great point,
21:31Evan and all three of the other guys that we talk about are Bruins guys. They're weird in the system.
21:37They have a lot of connections. I think they're what, you know, thought of very highly by
21:42management and the players. Um, and a lot of players, Jay Leach from Seattle, who was,
21:49who moved his, him and moved himself out there for like a year or two. And they brought him all
21:53the way back. Like they're not bringing him back for no reason. Well, and he was, he was in the
21:58running being considered when they needed a head coach to like, they were thinking of him back then
22:02when they hired Jim Montgomery. So, um, I do think, um, you know, it's a lot of interesting dynamics
22:12at play. And I, you know, I've said this a few times. I think Don Sweeney is a very deliberate
22:18person. And I think he like, really everything's well thought out. Everything's executed
22:23in a certain way. There's not a lot of, um, rashness to the things that he does. There's a
22:29lot of thought and, and preciseness. And like, it's right now is the same situation that Claude
22:35had when he was fired that year where, you know, they brought somebody in, or they brought people
22:39in that were clearly going to be the replacement if, when the move was made and, you know, he was
22:45not extended, um, or, you know, the time had come where they were going to make the move.
22:50And I feel like the same situation is sort of playing out here. Um, and it's tougher,
22:55like give Montgomery, uh, you know, credit where it's tough for him to operate. I think under the,
23:01the circumstances, the way they are right now, he obviously has to do that. And he has plenty
23:05of players that are in the last years of their contract. So he has to set the example of like,
23:09still doing his best, just like he expects his players that are in the same situation to do the
23:13best. But, uh, that's a tough spot for a coach to be in. Um, and it's going to continue to be
23:19until like something happens one way or the other. Um, especially if they struggle, it becomes
23:23untenable if they continue to struggle, like they are, uh, Mark, when you're watching this team
23:28right now, um, which player has you the most mystified? Who are you looking at? And you're
23:35like, what is going on with this guy right now? I can tell you right now for me, it's Charlie Coyle.
23:39Um, just like zero factor right now. Um, you know, really bad plus minus number one point
23:50in 10 games, uh, is not nearly enough of a presence offensively. Um, you know, two way is
23:58not the player that he's been in the past coming off one of his, you know, his best NHL season last
24:04year where he made me a believer that he was a top six, uh, center in the NHL. But like,
24:11I think this like first month has been one of the worst stretches that he's had as a member
24:15of the Bruins since coming here. Um, and he's got me really scratching his head as to what's going
24:20on with him. But who are you looking at right now and saying, I don't know what's happening
24:24with this player. I don't recognize him. Well, I agree with you on, uh, on Coyle. Um,
24:30you know, I, I wonder about Charlie McAvoy. I keep looking. I mean, it hasn't been awful,
24:39you know, a lot of the time, but for a guy in his, in his position, making the money he's making
24:45and his, his high profile on the team and, and in the league as a, as a top defenseman,
24:52I'm, I'm expecting more than what he's given so far. Uh, you know, I mean, some of the,
24:58some of the decisions, puck management things just continue to, uh, to crop up from time to
25:05time that have you wondering like, you know, where's his head. Uh, so I would point,
25:10I would point to him as one of the guys, uh, you know, Elias Lindholm, I would say he's been okay.
25:20But, uh, I thought he was their best player last night. He didn't finish on a couple of great
25:25chances, but he was their best player last night. Yeah. I think that's, that's a fair,
25:30that's a fair call, but you know, you'd like a little, and maybe I didn't watch him enough
25:35on the West coast, those late games to, uh, you know, to really get a handle on what he is. Uh,
25:41but, uh, I, I was hoping for a little bit better from him. Uh, and you know, maybe we'll see it,
25:47uh, going forward, but so far I've been not underwhelmed, but I just expected a little more.
25:54Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think there's a lot of players that definitely fall under that headline,
25:59given where they're at right now and how they've played to, to the McAvoy point, um,
26:04undisciplined, bad penalties. He's taken a bunch, uh, very out of position a lot of the time for a
26:11guy that's supposed to be a, you know, a defense first defenseman or a guy that, you know, really
26:16cares about the defensive end. Um, it feels to me, and I've said this once or twice before,
26:21it feels to me like he thought going into this year was a door of here that he could be a Rover
26:25and he could just like roam around and do whatever he wanted to do offensively and not worry about
26:30his defensive responsibilities as much. And he's kind of played that way at times, you know,
26:35especially early in the year, it seemed like he was all over the place, like not in his position,
26:39not where he was supposed to be. Um, and I agree like, and, and, you know, there there's the,
26:44the basic things with him, even at his best, I'm not sure he should be like the top power play
26:49quarterback of the number one power play unit on this team. And I think that continues to be
26:53the case. And we saw that last night again, uh, where it's just like firing pucks into,
26:58um, shot blockers instead of like creating shooting lanes or a move of the puck and around,
27:02or, you know, moving himself and, you know, creating player movement in the power play
27:06structure. But like, I agree with you. I do not think he has been, um, good at all, especially
27:12what he's being paid and what, you know, his responsibilities are, uh, Evan, you're you're
27:17anybody that you've watched, uh, and even if you have something to add on McAvoy and coil,
27:22uh, what you've watched and been sort of mystified by here in the early going.
27:26I was going to say, can I pick like every player? Can I pick every guy on the team? Like, can we,
27:29can we do that? Uh, McAvoy's. I mean, how about Frederick in a contract year? Well,
27:35Frederick and geeky, they're both in contract years. And that's the other thing. Like when I
27:38was kind of at the beginning of the year and the off season saying this team is going to be really
27:42good, it was cause those guys are middle six stalwarts and they're in contract years. It's
27:47like, all right, well, they're going to turn it up. And I mean, I think Frederick has three
27:50points geeky as one Montgomery called geeky out the other day. Um, McAvoy's an interesting one.
27:55I think he's doing way too much, trying to do way too much. There were some shifts on Tuesday where
28:00he's the third forward. Like another Ford is just straight up covering for him at the point and
28:05McAvoy's down deep. Um, and nothing's happening. And I agree with you, Hags, you and I've said
28:09this a lot over the last year about him on the power play. You have guys like Lindholm,
28:12you have low rye. I mean, McAvoy kind of just stands there. Like there's not a lot of movement.
28:18Um, so he's not been great. I, my first instinct, uh, cause coil has been bad too.
28:23Elias Lindholm, Elias Lindholm, Denver, you hit it. Uh, and I know that, you know, he had an okay
28:28game on Tuesday. He always pointless and seven straight games, seven straight games without a
28:33point. And to me, like he started out five points in the first three games. I remember saying,
28:37Oh wow. You're getting big dividends from Elias Lindholm already. Um, that's unacceptable.
28:42You get paid to be the number one center. You play with David Pasternak. You're on the top
28:46power play. You have no points in seven, seven games. You'd have to go back. And I, and again,
28:52this is an unfair comparison. Um, and I understand that it is an unfair comparison, but like, did
28:57Patrice Bergeron ever go pointless for seven straight games? And again, I know they're
29:00different players and everything, but like, to me, that's unacceptable. Um, I know he's a two way
29:06guy, good on draws and I'm for that, but you're almost getting paid 8 million a year. And you're
29:10playing with David Pasternak. The points have to be there. Um, you know, he's one. And then
29:15also Pavel Zaka. Um, he's up there with them. Like I figured he was gonna, you know, 60 point
29:21year playing with, with Lindholm and Pasternak. He's been moved on and off that first line. He's
29:25had, he did have some chances on Tuesday. I mean, the chances have been there.
29:29He's had a lot of good chances this year and he has not been able to finish. Like he's,
29:33I think of all those Bruins forwards, he's probably had the best scoring chances consistently. And
29:36he's not finishing on any of them. He had that sort of semi breakaway last night. And he just
29:41kind of settled for a little wrist or missed top, you know, miss top corner. And I, you know,
29:46and he had some chances down by the net and, and kind of got robbed and I get that, but
29:51there's gotta be a little more on that. And the fact that they have to move him off that line and
29:55try to jumpstart Martian and stuff. I mean, that's the thing where like, and all these guys, we
30:00mentioned these, these are legitimate pieces of this team. It's not like it's, Oh, it's Cole
30:04Kepke or it's Mark Kastelik or it's Mason Lowry. Like these are guys who are bringing in a lot of
30:09coin and have big roles and they've not, they've not been there at all. And I think you can make
30:15a case for more guys too. Like I think we've only touched on like half of them so far.
30:20Well, yeah. I, Carlo, I think he's been a little better lately, but he really struggled at the
30:25start of the year. The first handful of games. Yeah. I, I think, you know, one in Lowry,
30:33I think has struggled in, in this, you know, first full season, like coming off the momentum
30:38of last year. I think there's, he's had a couple of good moments, but I think there's been a few,
30:42more than one or two games where he's looked like a young player, like trying to establish himself
30:46and trying to, you know, play catch up. And, and certainly defensive end of it has been challenging
30:51for him. You know, what team Boston sports fans are most excited about this time of year right now?
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33:00One guy I would mention, and he's got six goals, is Pasternak. I think he has been...
33:09Obviously, he's so talented, he's going to score goals. He's going to get put in situations where
33:14he's going to finish. And he's just a natural born goal scorer, so he's going to have goals.
33:18But you look at some of the decisions that he's making, some of the penalties that he's taken,
33:23the casual way he was acting with the puck on the power play in the third period last night in a
33:28one-goal game. Just some of the stuff that he's doing. He had a couple of breakaway chances. I
33:34forget which game it was. And he didn't even get a shot on net. And either of two clear breakaway
33:40chances that he had. One, he missed with a backhand. The other one, he just fumbled the
33:44puck away and tripped and fell. Last night, he fumbles a one-timer, and then there's another
33:50time he has the puck. And he's just skating around with it. There's zero urgency whatsoever
33:56to what he's doing. He's fascinating for me to watch, because I feel like he's producing enough
34:02to where you say, oh, he's doing his job. But when you actually watch what he's doing, Mark,
34:08there are so many mistakes that he's making, and there are so many different things that he's doing
34:13that I feel like sets the entire casual, non-relentless tone that we've seen out of
34:19this Bruins team early in the year. Yeah, you mentioned the casualness.
34:26That kind of body language, I think he's had that casual look to him that I don't think
34:34he's had when he's been at his best. And the one-timer, I feel like he's
34:47relying on that a little bit too much. Maybe that's kind of like saying, geez, Ovechkin
34:53shoots the one-timer too much. He needs to stop. But when he shanks it, and that's going to happen,
35:00I wonder, geez, was there another play there? Should he have caught the puck and made a pass?
35:08Maybe he could have done something different. What do I know about the one-timer? But
35:14it doesn't seem to be as productive as it has been in the past. And I think as soon as the pass
35:22goes over that way, the goalie is over to the other side of the net, and he's in position.
35:28Everyone knows that's coming. And that's true of Ovechkin as well. And he still
35:34manages to get his share, and Posta does too. But I think digging in a little bit more
35:42would help Posta for sure. I think it would, especially guys like Pasternak and McAvoy,
35:49they can't go through the motions or they can't play with that kind of casual level when they've
35:55got letters on their sweaters. These guys are supposed to be leaders. These guys are supposed
35:59to be part of the leadership group that's setting the example for everybody else.
36:03When this team was going at its best, are you going to see Bergeron and Chara playing that way
36:10with letters on their sweaters and in leadership roles? Absolutely not. That would never have
36:14happened. And that is, I think, part of the overall thing that needs to change about this
36:21team. I think there needs to be tone setting from those players in the right way.
36:29Another thing with Pasternak, that sort of drag-and-snap slingshot thing that he does
36:34sometimes that he scored with a few times last year, I think he's relying on that in certain
36:39situations too, too much. When he gets a little bit of a breakaway. There are times he does it,
36:44and he doesn't even get a shot on net, in a clear place and chance where you've got to get at least
36:50a shot on net, get the puck on net and create some chaos in the offensive zone and make sure
36:55you get something out of it instead of just missing or fumbling the puck away and making
36:59it a nothing play, which I think is happening too much with him where it's kind of all or nothing.
37:05Evan, anything with Pasta that you've sort of seen or noticed at the start of this season?
37:15I think one of the biggest things with him is like last year, he was the guy
37:18on offensively, like he was the one man show was Pasternak. And you saw in the playoffs,
37:24him struggle with that a little bit because teams are just clamped down on him and be really
37:27physical with him. And that was that. I think there, I wonder with him and he hasn't mentioned
37:33this and I don't imagine that he will sort of being a little demoralized. They went out and
37:38got Elias Lindholm. That was supposed to be sort of his guy and through three games, it was working,
37:44um, but the points haven't been there. And I, I wonder if Pasternak sort of still feels that
37:49same way of like, Oh my God, the offense basically just rests on my shoulders.
37:54Um, because the reality is I think this team has two legitimate top line forwards and that's Lindholm
38:00who's not playing that way. And it's Pasternak. Uh, everybody else is sort of a middle six guy.
38:05Marshand is now a middle six guy and Pavel Zaka is a middle six guy and Charlie Coyle and Trent
38:10Frederick and Morgan geeky. And those guys aren't going to produce every night. You can't
38:15count on those guys every single night. And I just wonder, and this sort of is a roster question of
38:19like, is that pressure sort of got to Pasternak where it's over a year now and now he makes the
38:24money that that should not be a problem. Like that's the other part, right? Like him and McAvoy
38:28are your two top earners. Um, they've gotta be there. They've gotta be, you know, uh, at the
38:32top of their game and they got to at least look like they care. I don't know if you guys saw,
38:35um, on that one goal that the flyers scored at even strength, uh, that, that play started in the
38:42neutral zone and Pasternak obviously, you know, it was on the, I think he was on the left side
38:46and he, you know, did the cut across to, to get to the bench as they were, I think going D to D
38:51or going up and he just kind of Saunders to the bench at a time like that you're the far side
38:56wing there. Like that's, to me, that's unacceptable because Montgomery was yelling at someone on the
39:01bench. I couldn't tell who it was. Um, but again, like an easy neutral zone, uh, you know,
39:07trip to the neutral zone, an easy zone entry, like to, it's those little things like that.
39:12And I just wonder if it goes back to having the pressure of the weight of your offense on your
39:17shoulders, it shouldn't be crippling, but I do wonder if that, if that's part of it.
39:21Yeah. I mean the one legit roster complaint gripe, like whatever, um, that fans can have,
39:29like, it's not blowing up the roster. It's not like that. This team is too big and slow to
39:33compete. Like it's not any of that stuff. The one thing I would say is legit. And it's been legit
39:37since the summertime. And Don Sweeney even admitted it when we talked to him on July one
39:42is that this team is definitely one top six winger short, as far as the roster goes,
39:47you know, they're, they are definitely Jake DeBrusque left. They didn't adequately replace
39:51him on the wing and Mark that's the one spot that they're going to have to, you know,
39:57fix the trade deadline. But like, I think the plan all along was by committee to see if anybody
40:03could seize hold of it for a while, or anybody could like step up their game and play up to that
40:07level and help them out. And so far it's been, it's been a colossal failure to try to find
40:12somebody that can step into that role. Yeah, it has no question. Uh, so I mean,
40:20do you make a move now? Do you make, do you wait until maybe it's too late? You know,
40:25I would think that making a move soon would, uh, would be the way to go to fill that void. Uh,
40:33and you know, I've, I say this over and over again, uh, Frank Petrano, Frank Petrano.
40:42Okay. Frankie Petrano. Frankie Petrano. Uh, you know, there's a guy who can score. Okay.
40:51He knows the drill here in Boston. Uh, you know, the thing is you got to make it match up
40:59money-wise and there's the problem and you don't, you know, why would Anaheim be in any,
41:05any hurry to, uh, to trade him? But there's a guy that, that I think could help. Uh,
41:12there's other ones out there. I couldn't, uh, I couldn't list them at this point, but
41:16I mean, that's an issue that's going to have to be addressed sooner, either sooner or later.
41:21And maybe sooner is the way to go there. Yeah. Uh, Vitrano is an interesting one. Um,
41:27obviously he's another one, you know, the Bruins like their players that they have history with,
41:31that they've liked that, you know, they, they know them and they know they're going to fit in well.
41:35And Vitrano is obviously a guy they've got a lot of institutional knowledge on and they know what
41:39he brings to the table. So, uh, it would be interesting to bring him, bring him back,
41:43especially now that he's, he's gone out and done well, other places, you know,
41:47it was finally an all-star last year, which was impressive. Uh, when he was with Anaheim,
41:51I remember this is going way back now. I can't remember. This was like 2014,
41:572050. I forget when it was 2013, somewhere in there. Uh, my cousin, Adam, uh, Garrigotion,
42:03who played at Northeastern was a goalie at Northeastern. Um, a great real estate agent
42:09in Charlestown, by the way, if you're looking for a Charlestown real estate agent, uh, son
42:12of Mike Garrigotion, the longtime BU goalie coach, uh, for Jack Parker, my uncle, uh, he
42:18used to do, um, some goalie work for the Bruins kind of like, uh, uh, Sagi does now, uh, Keith
42:25Sagi does now, um, would be an EBUG. He was the EBUG for the Bruins for a while. He, he did a lot
42:31of skating with them in 2013 during the lockout when they were playing, uh, skating at Walter
42:36Brown. And I remember him coming up to me and, and after like, when he'd been skating with Vitrano
42:42for a little bit and saying to me, that kid's going to be an NHL stud. Like his shot is
42:46unbelievable. Like that kid's like got talent. Like he knew right away as a goalie, like he
42:50could see it. And I'd always had my eye on him from that point forward and knew like he was
42:54going to probably end up making it because like, everybody knows when you see a player like that,
42:58that as long as they've got their head on straight, they're, they're going to make it.
43:01So, um, it'll be interesting to see if that's the guy, but, uh, you know, I would take a Frank
43:07Vitrano redux, uh, in Boston, Evan, that would be a, who wouldn't love that. A new
43:12England hockey journal would certainly like that. I was going to say that's like the dream
43:16of doing a hockey journals to have that, um, another fun New England hockey journal dream
43:20that is not happening. And I don't know how you would make this work, but it ties in, um,
43:25if San Jose is destined for the number one pick again, um, and that number one pick is likely to
43:30be James Hagans, who is, you know, franchise centerman. Uh, they have Macklin Celebrini
43:34and other franchise centerman. I don't know if you guys have noticed Diver. I know you definitely
43:38have a Will Smith has struggled mightily out of the gate in San Jose. Um, I'm not saying again,
43:46it's impossible that I don't think San Jose would ever do this. I, you know, I don't even know what
43:50it would take, but go get Will Smith, go get Will Smith. Uh, that would be, that would be what I
43:57would say to do. Go get Will Smith, make it happen, find a way. Um, he needs to be at home,
44:03comfortable. Um, you know, maybe lives at home in Lexington, save some money.
44:08Um, and, uh, I, but I really do like, I wonder, and I, they would never do it. Um,
44:14but again, Santa, the reality of that, and this will probably, this is a San Jose thing,
44:18not a Bruins thing. I hope you can't hear the work they're doing outside my house,
44:22which has been incredibly annoying. They've been doing it since like six in the morning.
44:25Um, I do wonder at some point if San Jose makes a move with either the, the, their first round
44:33pick, um, or something, because they can't have all three of those centers on that roster.
44:38That's impossible. Um, so Will Smith, I would say, go get Will Smith, find a way,
44:42whether it's giving up your first and a top prospect or whatever it is. Like I would say,
44:48go get Will Smith. You've signed up for that. I'm half, half serious. I mean,
44:54it's more of a fun idea I have, but I don't think that's actually practical.
44:58I think, you know, Mike Greer is a smart guy. I don't think he's, he's making that.
45:05He's not, he's not, he's not giving that up quick.
45:07I think it would convert one of those centers to wing rather than trading them away. That would
45:11be my guess. Yeah. One can dream. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, to, to go back on a serious,
45:16on a little bit more serious note, Frankfurt, Toronto, let me say this about the Toronto thing.
45:21Like any player that they're bringing in like that, they're going to have to move players
45:26off the NHL roster, clear salary gap space to make that happen. And that becomes
45:30an interesting guessing game as to who that could possibly be or who they're looking at.
45:35And I, like, I got to think Morgan Geeky is one of the guys that would end up going somewhere if
45:41they did end up making a trade like that. And I wonder if they look at, you know, shaking things
45:46up on the backend too, if that becomes something where they would, you know, try to move a player
45:52from there as well. I don't know they have as many ready-made replacements that they'd want
45:56to bring in. And I'd be hesitant to do that, but like, I do think you, you, you'd have to look at
46:02NHL pieces off this roster to move if, and when you make that kind of a trade.
46:08Yeah. I, I, you know, if Morgan Geeky continues the way he's going you know, the move for him
46:14might be to Providence. Yeah. Right. To try and get some, pump some life back into his game.
46:21Boy, I don't, I guess, I guess last year was such a surprise. Last year was the outlier,
46:28it appears in his career. And now maybe he's back to what he really is, which is kind of a
46:36discouraging or frightening thought if you're, if you're the Bruins that, that he's been this,
46:43you know, there's just not a lot going on there early in the season here. I don't know,
46:49I don't know how you snap him out of that. His game was all about, so much of it was about
46:55hard skill and second and third effort on pucks, like all that stuff. Like he's not a dazzling
47:00hockey player with a skillset, but he has like hard skill. He almost looks like he's going to
47:06lose the puck, but he hangs onto it and he goes through guys with it. And it was second and third
47:11effort beating guys in battles to hold onto the puck and get it into good scoring areas. Like
47:18there's been none of that from him or from anybody else on this team to start this year,
47:23that determination, like they're going to get the puck to the net or that determination,
47:27like they're going to take the puck away from somebody when it gets taken away from them.
47:30There's been none of that. Yeah, they're, you're right. You're right. And so I don't,
47:38like I said earlier, I don't know what the answer is with him. I really don't. What do you do?
47:44What do you do? Can you try and sit them out? I think they did that, didn't they?
47:52He was scratched. Yep. Yeah. So I don't know. I think that's a tough one.
47:56It is. Go ahead. Well, you're right. I think geeky would have to be put in a, in a tray,
48:03obviously in a trade, you have to free up that roster spot. I did, as you guys were talking,
48:07I did write down if Petrano was in, if they got Petrano and traded geeky,
48:11what would you think of these lines? Petrano, Lindholm, Pasternak, Marshand, Zaka, Coyle,
48:17to go with the lefty righty on the wings, Frederick, Patra, Brezeau. And then you keep
48:21the fourth line as Kepke, Beecher, Kastelik. I mean, I think that is better. I don't know
48:26if that's like Stanley cup caliber, but I think that is better. Like you have a more proven goal
48:32score on that top line. You also could keep Zaka up there and put Petrano on the second line.
48:38Like the Petrano thing does give you options. It's just how willing is Anaheim to deal him?
48:43Well, here's a, here's a thought that I'm going to throw out there and, and duck after I say it
48:49can't be as bad as my Will Smith one. What if you, what if you traded Trent Frederick for Frank
48:55Petrano? Yeah. Freddie's in a, he's in a contract year. He's not off to a great start. You got to
49:03give up something to get something. Anaheim's a building team, you know, maybe, maybe,
49:09maybe they could use Frederick in, you know, it kind of in that role, they got some young talent,
49:15but you know, not a lot of, you know, hardness that, that Freddie can bring when he's at his
49:22best, which he hasn't been. But you know, I don't know, maybe that's, that's just,
49:30like I said, I'm throwing that out there and now I'm going to duck. That's the, you know.
49:36The commenters are going to be all over you, Mark.
49:38They are. I'm ready. I'm ready.
49:40Some East coast dude or whatever.
49:42That's right. Random, random dude.
49:45Yeah. Some random dude from the East coast. I think like there may, there very well may come
49:53a determination where the Bruins decide whatever the price tag is going to be from Frederick based
49:57on like what he did last year is something they're not going to want to pay if they
50:01can't consistently get that out of them. You know, like if he's not going to be that guy all the time
50:06and you can't rely on him to nightly be that hard physical, you know, hard to play against player
50:12that's also productive and continues to like ascend as far as the offensive production goes,
50:18like you're not going to pay him that money. You're not going to pay him that kind of money
50:22if he can't be that guy all the time. So like, and he would have valued other teams
50:26because they would probably feel like they can get that. Or if they can find a way to get that
50:30out of them, he's going to be very valuable to them because those guys are rare, right?
50:33The power forward types that can drop the gloves and are physical.
50:37Well, another, you know, sort of a side factor there is the impact of that in the dressing room
50:46because who doesn't like Freddie? I think he's very popular in that room. He's a very likable
50:57kid. No question about it. That would really be a shakeup that would have some impact, I think.
51:05Yeah. I think you're right. That would definitely get people's attention. There's no,
51:08there's no question about that. And I think really at that point,
51:12we're at the point I feel like watching this team where whatever it is, whether it's Montgomery and
51:17changing coaching change, whether it's a trade of some kind, like, I feel like something has
51:23to be done by Bruins management and ownership to shake things up and to get the attention of
51:27these players. Because I just feel like they are way too comfortable in there right now with the
51:32way that they're playing and the way they're operating where like something needs to change.
51:37I also think like, and I think that Frederick for Vitrano idea is really interesting
51:42because I don't know how you guys feel, but I would do anything not to trade the first round pick.
51:46Like that's the biggest thing they need. This team needs to make first round picks.
51:51This team needs to get higher end guys in the draft, all that stuff.
51:56I would, if they were able to upgrade the roster a good amount without dealing that first rounder,
52:03that's a win. Like, and that's why, like, if you could somehow do a Frederick for Vitrano deal,
52:08like I would be all over it a hundred percent. Now maybe you'd have to add in a little something
52:11else, a prospect, whatever it is. But I think it's absolute, like I don't touch that first
52:18rounder right now. And I also think like at the rate that they're going and if that continues
52:24and they don't make any moves for a little while here and it is, you know,
52:30mid-December and they're sort of in the same spot where they're kind of inconsistent.
52:36Like I, I'm definitely not giving up a first round pick for that, for this team. It's more,
52:40you know, if you've got to trade a guy like Frederick or Geeky in a contract year,
52:43that's what you do. You don't deal the first rounder. So.
52:47Yeah, I agree. So let's make a Trent Frederick for Will Smith. Let's make it happen, Mike.
52:51There we go. That's easy.
52:53We've solved all the Bruins problems here at the very end of the Pucks for Dags podcast. Mark,
52:57Evan, thank you very much. Let's also thank PrizePix. Download the PrizePix app today and
53:02use the code CLNS and get $50 instantly when you play five bucks. That's code CLNS on PrizePix to
53:06get $50 instantly. When you play $5, you don't even need to win to receive the $50 bonus. It's
53:12guaranteed. PrizePix, run your game. Let's also thank GameTime. Download the GameTime app,
53:18create an account and use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Terms do apply,
53:23but again, download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code CLNS for $20 off
53:28your first purchase. What time is it? Game time. Evan, Mark, thank you very much for joining us.
53:33Thanks guys for having us.
53:35You got it. Let's hope there's some more happy Bruins talk the next time we get together and
53:39things are going a little bit better. We'll see. Everybody else out there,
53:42thank you for listening. We'll see you at the Bruins.