John Giles, Republican mayor of Mesa, Arizona, is pledging his support to Kamala Harris. He even spoke at the Democratic convention. Giles joins Hari Sreenivasan to explain why he felt compelled to switch sides. They discuss immigration as a ballot issue this election and the necessity for Kamala Harris to reset the messaging on this subject.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, everyone, and welcome to Amanpour & Company.
00:07Here's what's coming up.
00:09America, hope is making a comeback.
00:13Can Kamala Harris rebuild the Obama coalition?
00:17Midway through the Democratic convention,
00:19I asked Congresswoman Victoria Escobar,
00:22co-chair of the Harris-Walls campaign.
00:25Then...
00:30Inside the West Wing.
00:3225 years since the iconic series debuted,
00:35I'm joined by its stars, Martin Sheen and Melissa Fitzgerald,
00:39to digest an enduring legacy.
00:42Also ahead...
00:43I feel a little out of place tonight,
00:45but I feel more at home here than in today's Republican Party.
00:50The Republican backing Kamala Harris,
00:52John Giles, mayor of Mesa, Arizona,
00:55tells Hari Sreenivasan why he can't support his own party's nominee.
01:00♪♪
01:18Amanpour & Company is made possible by...
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01:34The Family Foundation of Layla and Mickey Strauss.
01:52Committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities.
02:00And by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you.
02:06Welcome to the program, everyone.
02:08I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
02:10Halfway across the world and halfway through
02:13the Democratic National Convention in Chicago,
02:15after the Obamas rocked the hall tonight,
02:18the VP nominee, Tim Walz,
02:20pitches himself to the biggest crowd of his career,
02:23reaching out to a public around the nation
02:25that doesn't fully know him yet.
02:27And he has a tough act to follow
02:29because last night, President Barack Obama
02:31and the former first lady, Michelle Obama,
02:33both delivered barnstorming speeches
02:36that tried to recapture the energy around his 2008 campaign.
02:41I am feeling hopeful.
02:43Because this convention
02:47has always been pretty good to kids with funny names
02:51who believe in a country where anything is possible.
02:55It's spreading all across this country.
02:58We love a familiar feeling
03:01that's been buried too deep for far too long.
03:05You know what I'm talking about.
03:08It's the contagious power of hope.
03:14But both also insisted
03:17that despite that surging hope and enthusiasm,
03:20it's going to be a very tight race.
03:22So let's get the latest from Chicago
03:24with reporter Kevin Liptak.
03:26Kevin, welcome.
03:28So you've been there, you know, throughout.
03:30It's day three.
03:32Beyond the barnstorming speeches
03:34that are taking, you know, everybody by, you know,
03:37by the neck, so to speak, what are they saying?
03:40What are the delegates saying?
03:42Do they, you know, get beyond sort of the enthusiasm
03:45and down to the nitty-gritty of turning that into votes?
03:49Well, I don't think you can get past the enthusiasm in some ways.
03:52This is a convention that is very different
03:54than the one that Democrats were planning a month ago
03:57when Joe Biden was going to be the nominee.
03:59And now that Kamala Harris is the Democratic standard bearer,
04:02there has been something of a release of energy
04:05inside this convention hall.
04:07Democrats are enthused.
04:09They, you know, greet their speakers with deafening applause.
04:12And I think you really can't imagine
04:14a more different spectacle if Joe Biden was still the nominee.
04:18I think it was James Carville who said
04:20that this convention would have been like sitting Shiva
04:23if Joe Biden was the candidate.
04:25It's a very different event that you're seeing here this week,
04:29and you saw that when the Obamas walked out on stage last night.
04:32It was raucous applause.
04:34You could not hear yourself think
04:36when Michelle Obama emerged onto that stage.
04:39What I think was so interesting in the Obamas' speeches, though,
04:42they didn't necessarily talk about Donald Trump
04:45as a threat to democracy.
04:47That had been Joe Biden's message.
04:49That is the campaign he wanted to run on.
04:51That's not to say, you know,
04:53Barack Obama doesn't care about democracy,
04:55and you know that, well, you interviewed him
04:57not that long ago about that very topic.
04:59But they have clearly made the calculation
05:01that voters want to hear less about democracy
05:04and more takedowns of Donald Trump.
05:06And their speeches were full of sort of laugh lines about Donald Trump.
05:10They have made the calculation
05:12that nothing gets under Donald Trump's skin
05:15than not being taken seriously.
05:17And I think that's such a whole-scale,
05:19different approach than Joe Biden was taking,
05:21and it kind of tells you everything you need to know
05:24about how this campaign has changed
05:26and how this convention has changed
05:29since Kamala Harris emerged as the nominee.
05:32So, tell us kind of about, you know, Tim Walz,
05:36because he is not known widely across America.
05:40What was his challenge as he takes to the stage?
05:44Yeah, and I'll tell you,
05:46he's actually not all that well-known among the delegates here.
05:48In chatting them up over the course of this week,
05:51many of them said that he wasn't really even on their radar
05:54until two weeks ago when he became the vice presidential nominee.
05:57And these are some of the most plugged-in people in Democratic politics.
06:01So he will have a task in front of him
06:03in introducing himself to the American people.
06:06And I think what he's going to want to do
06:08is rely on his biography, his roots in Nebraska.
06:11He was a football coach. He was a teacher.
06:13He was a congressman.
06:15And he wants to put that forward as something of a testament to his character.
06:19He has also emerged as something of a joyful warrior on the campaign trail.
06:23He is the one who originated the attack line on the Republicans as weird,
06:28which has generated an enormous response.
06:30And so that, I think, will be his task when he comes on the stage tonight,
06:34is to just let Americans know who exactly this person is.
06:37And just because I'm sitting over here, across the pond, so to speak,
06:42with all the world watching this election coming up,
06:45has anybody articulated a worldview yet?
06:49I think the Kamala Harris doctrine is a very much unknown thing at this point.
06:55She has entered the vice presidency
06:57with not a lot of experience on the foreign stage.
07:00She's learned as she went along, and certainly Joe Biden is someone
07:03who is able to help her do that in some ways
07:05as someone who had been on the world stage for so long.
07:09She's taken a number of different tasks.
07:12Certainly she was focused on Ukraine.
07:14She's visited Ukraine.
07:15I think if you could identify a big difference between the two of them,
07:19it is probably on the war in Israel.
07:22Substantively, I don't think she would be doing anything different
07:25than Joe Biden is doing at this point.
07:27But in terms of emphasis, she has been much more stringent
07:31in talking about the plight of the Palestinians,
07:33the need for a ceasefire in Gaza.
07:36She has said that just this week as well.
07:38This convention in some ways had been overshadowed
07:41or people thought it might be overshadowed
07:43by protests related to the war in Gaza,
07:45which has divided the Democratic Party in some ways.
07:48Those have remained outside the convention hall for now.
07:50It has not disrupted the proceedings here in the arena.
07:54Kevin Liptak, thank you.
07:55And Thursday night, tomorrow night, is Kamala Harris' night.
07:59Everybody will be tuned in.
08:00And later in this program, Congresswoman Veronica Escobar,
08:04co-chair of the Harris-Walz campaign,
08:06will join me with more.
08:08Now, much has been made of how this DNC has been trying
08:12to recapture the hope of Obama's 2008 run.
08:15But if you want real political fantasia,
08:17you have to look a little further back in time,
08:20to 1999, when Aaron Sorkin's series
08:23The West Wing hit the airwaves with its famous walk-and-talks,
08:26its dynamic, fast-paced scripts, and soaring political optimism.
08:31Here's just one clip to remind us
08:33when actor Martin Sheen was president.
08:37There's a promise that I ask everyone who works here to make.
08:40Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens
08:44can change the world.
08:46Do you know why?
08:49It's the only thing that ever has.
08:52Seems like a long time ago,
08:54but a new book is going behind the scenes called What's Next?
08:57A Backstage Pass to the West Wing.
09:00Its cast and crew and its enduring legacy of service.
09:03And I'm joined now by one of its authors,
09:05the West Wing alum Melissa Fitzgerald,
09:07as well as President Bartlett himself,
09:09the multi-award-winning actor Martin Sheen.
09:12Welcome, both of you, to the program.
09:14It really does seem appropriate to be able to talk about this
09:18and your legacy, the program's legacy,
09:21right in the middle of this convention.
09:23Because as Michelle Obama said,
09:25it does seem that hope has been rekindled,
09:28at least for this week.
09:29Martin Sheen, how do you see what's going on now in real life
09:34and sort of as a postscript to what you all hoped
09:39and predicted back when West Wing was on the air?
09:43Well, clearly there is a groundswell
09:46and it has captured the imagination of the whole nation
09:50and no one could possibly have anticipated it,
09:54and least of all the Republicans.
09:57And with all due respect,
09:59I would offer just a few words of advice to Mr. Trump.
10:03Donald, you're going to need a bigger boat.
10:06That's what's happening.
10:07There is a tidal wave sweeping across the country
10:10and it's lifting everybody up with this optimism
10:13and joy and hope,
10:15something that we could not possibly have imagined
10:19until very recently.
10:21And so we're all, frankly, just happy as Larry
10:24that finally the dam is broken
10:26and it's okay to join the wave.
10:31So, of course, you speak from a particular perspective
10:34and one that you all created and showed the world
10:38during the West Wing.
10:39Some call it a liberal fantasy.
10:41Melissa Fitzgerald, what I want to ask you
10:43is about the book that you've written about it,
10:46What's Next, and it has a long subtitle.
10:50What did you hear all these years later
10:53from the cast, from the crew,
10:55from the others who took part in this incredible series?
11:00Well, I think we are at a moment of great hope,
11:04of joy, as Martin said, of optimism,
11:07and we all felt so fortunate
11:10to have been part of a show
11:13that envisioned a government
11:15that was filled by smart, committed people
11:19who went to work every day
11:20trying to do the most good for the most people.
11:23And we have heard from the fans
11:25and people who bought the book
11:26because it's been out for about a week now,
11:28and we've gotten such a flood of positive response
11:32from people saying that this book
11:33is meeting the moment that we are in now.
11:36And that has been thrilling and exciting
11:39that we are in this moment of great optimism, joy, and hope,
11:44which was really what the West Wing was about
11:46and why I believe it caught such fire.
11:49So, look, I'm going to play a little clip,
11:51and, you know, it talks about what's next,
11:54the origin of that phrase or that question,
11:57which is also the title of your book.
11:59Here we go. Let's flashback for a moment.
12:02Sam, if we win in Illinois,
12:03do we have a shot at California and New York?
12:05If we win in Illinois, we're going to run the table.
12:08Well, that's it, then.
12:09We've saved people the trouble of voting.
12:12What's next?
12:13Our point is that it's...
12:14I understood the point.
12:15We're going to South Carolina to set up Illinois.
12:18When I ask what's next,
12:19it means I'm ready to move on to other things.
12:22So, what's next?
12:23We're done.
12:24Fantastic.
12:25I mean, it sums up so much, Martin Sheen.
12:28That was the late John Spencer also,
12:30obviously, in that clip.
12:32Tell me about what's next.
12:34I mean, you sort of explained it there,
12:36but how did that become the sort of the iconic phrase?
12:42Well, he never wanted to look behind him.
12:45He was always looking forward.
12:47So, when he said what's next, he's saying to his staff
12:51and to anyone within earshot that we've...
12:54I got what you're kind of telling me,
12:56what you're telling me, and I'm looking forward,
12:58and I'm carrying what you told me with me.
13:01So, what's next?
13:02So, he got it, in other words.
13:04Didn't have to have endless, endless long meetings.
13:06He got it, yes.
13:07Yeah.
13:08Yeah, look, I want to ask you both.
13:09I'll start with you, Melissa.
13:10So, as we've established, the West Wing was an incredibly...
13:15It's like comfort viewing.
13:17It gave people a sense of hope, a sense of can-do,
13:21a sense that politics was there to make people's lives better.
13:25And things that came later were very cynical,
13:27whether it's the House of Cards,
13:29whether it's the English one in the thick of it,
13:32Veep even, funny but quite cynical.
13:34Yeah.
13:35How do you account for the success
13:38of the hopeful version, Melissa,
13:41when you look back, you know, 25 years later?
13:46I believe I am a hopeful person at my core,
13:50and I think most people are.
13:52We want that.
13:53We want to know that our government is there for us.
13:56We do own it.
13:57It is ours, and we have to build it,
13:59we have to fight for it,
14:00and I know that people have that hope in them,
14:04and we need that,
14:05and I think that was part of the success of the show.
14:07And talking about what's next,
14:09Mary and I chose that.
14:11Mary McCormick, who's the co-author,
14:13castmate, and dear friend,
14:15spent five years writing this book,
14:17and we chose that title carefully
14:19because not only was it the president's catchphrase,
14:22but it's also what we believe,
14:24that everyone who reads the book,
14:26that we the people, we're what's next,
14:28because we make our government,
14:30and we get the government that we build.
14:33So we're excited about that.
14:34We're excited that fans are, you know,
14:37that they are reading the book with their families
14:40and that they are in this moment of hope and inspiration,
14:44and it's just a thrilling time to be alive.
14:46Yeah, and actually, the series hit another whole wave
14:50of, you know, of people and viewers during COVID,
14:55and people still watch it and binge it,
14:57even young people who weren't barely born
15:00when the series debuted.
15:02But I want to ask you, Martin, as well,
15:03because the idea of service is very, very clear.
15:08Public service through the presidency,
15:10through government,
15:11and also individual service and paying back.
15:14And I understand that a lot of you,
15:16as regular civilians, really did take on a lot of service.
15:21Maybe you were all doing public service,
15:23various things before, but Martin,
15:25talk to me a little bit about that,
15:27because that's kind of interesting,
15:28that the cast and crew and many of you all
15:31have engaged in that.
15:33Yeah, you know, commitment to public service
15:37was part of our lives as a community with the West Wing,
15:43but also individually.
15:44And I think it had a large part to do
15:46with why we were cast in the show.
15:48We came from a place and we stood for something.
15:51And if what you believe is not costly,
15:53then you're left to question its value.
15:55And so, for us, public service was a form of patriotism
16:01that went beyond the military
16:03and was expected from all of us.
16:06I grew up in a very different time, of course,
16:10in the Midwest in the 1950s.
16:12Eisenhower was president.
16:13He was like a grandfather.
16:15Then here comes John Kennedy,
16:17and a spark was lit for young people.
16:19And more and more young people got involved
16:21because he said,
16:22ask not what your country can do for you,
16:26but what can you do for your country?
16:28And that made a profound impact on young people everywhere.
16:32And we sort of echoed that with the West Wing.
16:35We reached out and said,
16:36no matter where you are, who you are,
16:38and what you're involved in,
16:40you've got to go higher to make the country better.
16:42And you'll be better as a result.
16:44You're going to carry with you all that you believe
16:48and all that you've sacrificed.
16:50And it's going to have meaning.
16:51Very often, the only time we see any results
16:54of our activism is on ourselves.
16:57And that's where it starts.
16:58You can't look over your shoulder and think,
17:00well, I'm involved in something
17:01and everybody's going to be changed by it.
17:03No, no.
17:04If you're the only one that's changed,
17:05then you're already a success.
17:07You know, as you're talking,
17:08I'm flashing back to after 9-11,
17:11President Bush famously said,
17:13go shopping, lead as normal lives,
17:17where many people thought that was a moment
17:19to get ordinary Americans to do national service,
17:21not talking about military service, national service,
17:24to go out and really meet the moment.
17:26And I wonder whether you all think
17:28that was a missed opportunity.
17:31I think it was.
17:32I think that people, you know,
17:34were hit in the heart of where we live.
17:38Civilians were murdered on an unimaginable scale.
17:43And so civilians everywhere, you know,
17:46had to cherish each other.
17:49Neighbors that they didn't even know
17:51became precious.
17:54All human life, we saw each other
17:57with a clear and different light,
17:59how precious every single life was.
18:02And helplessly, we watched that horrible day on 9-11,
18:07and we couldn't really do anything.
18:09The heroes were running into the fire.
18:11And so it was like, you know,
18:15that we had to embrace all of life,
18:20how important each and every individual life was.
18:23And that's community.
18:25That's basically a civic pride, you know,
18:28but it's a deeply spiritual reality as well,
18:31that we're all in this together.
18:33And Melissa, I don't know whether you agree,
18:35but some people feel that that sense of community,
18:38that, you know, of course,
18:39there's always been political differences,
18:41cultural differences,
18:42but now people take it to sort of an enmity level.
18:46If you don't agree with me, you're my enemy and vice versa.
18:49And one of the things that this series showed
18:53was the ability, when it was necessary and possible,
18:56for the politicians to work across the aisles
18:59and to actually get things done.
19:01And President Bartlett showed that.
19:04Now, in a recent interview,
19:05Aaron Sorkin, who wrote the series and created it, said,
19:08if he was producing it now,
19:10the whole concept of a reasonable Republican opposition
19:13would be implausible.
19:15What do you, do you reflect on that, Melissa?
19:18Yeah, I was actually sitting next to him when he said it,
19:21one of the times that he said it.
19:23But I do, I do believe that we can get back to that
19:28and we will get back to that.
19:30We are facing enormous problems, not just in our country,
19:33but in the world.
19:35And I believe that we have everything we need
19:38to solve all the world's problems.
19:40We have to work together.
19:41We have to come together with kindness, empathy, understanding,
19:45and we have to work hard to solve them.
19:47And I believe we can and we must.
19:50Everyone is counting on us to do it.
19:52And that's something that, you know,
19:54Martin has set that example in service.
19:57And I think the entire cast really has been inspired
20:01by Martin's march towards social justice.
20:04And he has led with kindness, empathy,
20:07treating everyone with dignity and respect.
20:09And we're all grateful for that.
20:11And, of course, the example comes from the top.
20:13But I want to also ask you this, Melissa,
20:15because, you know, young people are really watching this,
20:17as I said.
20:18A lot of them really, really like it.
20:20There are some generational differences, clearly,
20:23from 25 years ago to now.
20:25And some onliners say that, you know,
20:28some of the aspects may not have aged well,
20:31sexual dynamics in the workplace, mostly white casting,
20:34the undercurrent of American exceptionalism.
20:37Do you think that was just reflecting the times
20:40or was it too optimistic?
20:45I mean, I think it was reflecting the times 25 years ago.
20:48It's been a long time.
20:50But I also think, you know, when you know better,
20:52you do better and you grow.
20:54And I'm very excited about where we are today
20:59and what we have in front of us.
21:02But, you know, I do believe that the show,
21:06the core of it was hope.
21:08And the core of it was that government
21:10can be a force for good.
21:12And I think we're there again.
21:14Yeah.
21:15It's really interesting.
21:16I want to play another clip, Martin,
21:18because it's, again, it's you.
21:20And you are here in the scene with the late John Spencer,
21:24who was your chief of staff.
21:26Richard Schiff is your communications director.
21:28And it's actually about a pretty existential story
21:33and health.
21:34Here we go.
21:35During an eye exam, the doctor detected abnormal pupil
21:39responses and ordered an MRI.
21:42The radiologist found plaque on my brain and spine.
21:46I have a relapsing remitting course of MS.
21:57I'm sorry, sir?
22:02I have multiple sclerosis, Toby.
22:10I mean, both of you, Martin, it is just eerie
22:13how art is imitating life or vice versa,
22:17given what's happened and, you know,
22:21considered Biden has been considered to have aged out
22:24and has stepped down.
22:26This was an amazing story idea.
22:30For those who don't know the next bit or what,
22:33what happened after that?
22:35That was a potentially disqualifying story.
22:38That was a potentially disqualifying condition
22:41for a president.
22:44Well, it was, but he was surrounded
22:48by such optimism and such care and love and respect
22:54that no one abandoned him.
22:57They knew that they were going to have a lot of opposition,
23:01but that he would prevail.
23:05With all that's going on and with how it's, you know,
23:09we covered so many of the events that are happening now
23:1225 years ago and over the first seven years of the series,
23:15you know, I think of what's most important was,
23:19I like telling the story of the Irish tale
23:22about a man who arrives at the gates of heaven
23:24and asked to be let in.
23:25St. Peter says, of course, just show us your scars.
23:28The man says, I have no scars.
23:30St. Peter says, what a pity.
23:33Was there nothing worth fighting for?
23:36I think everyone on the West Wing,
23:38everyone involved with it,
23:39everyone that was in any way connected with it
23:42found something worth fighting for.
23:44They found a way to unite the will of the spirit
23:47with the work of the flesh.
23:48And when we do that,
23:49the world discovers fire for the second time.
23:52Yeah, that's an amazing anecdote.
23:54Now, look, you both visited the White House last week
23:57and Martin, you spoke with the president.
23:59How did that feel?
24:00I mean, did it feel like a homecoming?
24:03I'm kind of joking.
24:04But were you sort of consumed by the pathos of it all,
24:09given what the president had done and stepped down?
24:12Well, I adored him and to meet him,
24:15frankly, I was overwhelmed.
24:17I was tongue-tied.
24:18I cannot remember anything I said to him.
24:21I remember him saying to me,
24:22Mr. President, thank you for all you've done.
24:25And I couldn't think of anything that I had done.
24:28And when he was getting ready to leave,
24:30he invited us to walk out onto the lawn
24:32and he talked to the press.
24:33And then he turned around and I saluted him.
24:35He saluted me and he came back up
24:37to shake hands and say goodbye.
24:39And people have wondered,
24:40well, what did he say to you that made you laugh?
24:42And I said, well, he asked me
24:43if I would like to talk to the press.
24:45I said, no, thanks, that's not what I do for a living.
24:49Well, listen, I want to put that last question
24:52to you, Melissa,
24:53because you were deputy press secretary.
24:55I mean, you see the way the press treats
24:58in the series.
24:59You see the way the press treats any leader right now.
25:03Remind us what it was like during the series.
25:06How was the White House press room?
25:09Well, it was not dissimilar to how it is now.
25:12I think there was a slightly greater,
25:17deeper line that people wouldn't cross
25:19in terms of respect,
25:20but there were still challenges
25:22to the press secretary that we see now.
25:26But I think it was always,
25:29the press secretary was always in service
25:31of the president,
25:32and it was an honor to be part of that series
25:36and part of that show
25:37and to get to work with Allison
25:39and the rest of the cast.
25:40And as Martin said,
25:41the whole commitment to service
25:43has really kept our relationships as a family.
25:47We are really a family to this day.
25:49We talk daily.
25:50It's amazing.
25:51We talk all the time.
25:52And we come together to support each other's issues
25:55and causes, including the one that I do now.
25:58I work in justice system reform
26:00at an organization called All Rise.
26:02And the entire cast,
26:04Martin got me involved in it,
26:05and the entire cast has supported it.
26:07And everybody has something
26:09that they are working on at any given time.
26:12And it's inspiring to get to do that.
26:14We were given a great gift by being part of the West Wing.
26:17And you've given it.
26:18You've given it back.
26:19It's like a fine wine, you know?
26:20The quality survives.
26:21And the proof is in the pudding
26:23with people still watching.
26:24Martin Sheen, Melissa Fitzgerald,
26:26thank you so much indeed for joining us.
26:30And as we've just discussed,
26:31the West Wing is a portrayal of American democracy
26:34at its best with Democrats and Republicans
26:36often working together across the political aisle.
26:38Our next guest is a real-life example.
26:41He's the Republican mayor for Mesa, Arizona, John Giles.
26:45He's pledging his support to Kamala Harris.
26:47And he even spoke at the Democratic Convention.
26:51I feel a little out of place tonight.
26:53But I feel more at home here
26:55than in today's Republican Party.
27:00The grand old party has been kidnapped by extremists
27:04and devolved into a cult.
27:06The cult of Donald Trump.
27:08And he joins Hari Sreenivasan now to explain
27:11why he was compelled to switch sides
27:13as well as how immigration is on the ballot this election
27:16and the need for Kamala Harris
27:17to reset the messaging on that issue.
27:20John Giles, thanks so much for joining us.
27:22In your career, did you think you would be
27:26on a national stage as a lifelong Republican
27:29addressing the Democratic Convention?
27:32No, I mean, if you'd asked me, you know,
27:34to list 100 things that were gonna happen to me this year,
27:38this is not one of them that I would have identified it.
27:42As a lifelong Republican, I mean, frankly,
27:45I've never been such a gung-ho Republican
27:49that I've gone to a Republican Convention.
27:51But I certainly never would have imagined
27:53going to a Democratic Convention.
27:54Okay, well, you were there partly because
27:57you had previously endorsed Kamala Harris for president.
28:02Why that choice?
28:04You know, as a mayor,
28:06I serve really in a nonpartisan position.
28:09Everyone knows I'm a Republican,
28:11but at local government, you know,
28:14in my city council, I work with very progressive Democrats
28:17and very conservative Republicans on my city council.
28:19And we get along very, very well,
28:22because we focus on solving problems.
28:25And so I don't generally like to get involved
28:31in toxic, you know, partisan, polarizing events.
28:36But sometimes there's elections or there's issues
28:40that really silence is not an option.
28:42And this is one of those very pivotal elections,
28:45I think, in our lifetime.
28:46Was it a difficult decision to make for you?
28:49It was and it wasn't.
28:50Like I said, I don't like to get involved
28:53in mean-spirited politics,
28:56and that's what partisan politics is.
28:58But at the same time,
28:59I knew that it was in the best interest of my city,
29:02and that if I didn't speak out, I would regret it.
29:05You know, I wonder, there have been
29:08a lot of other Republicans who,
29:11when they know that they no longer have
29:13a political office that they're seeking
29:15or getting reelected to,
29:16or that they've looked at the math,
29:18the poll numbers, and say,
29:19I can't win right now,
29:20they seem to find a new kind of spine,
29:24and they have an opportunity to speak.
29:27And look, I mean, Senator Flake from Arizona
29:30comes to mind,
29:31but you're also a term-limited mayor.
29:34And I'm wondering, why now?
29:36Why choose to make this public
29:39sort of split with the top of your ticket?
29:44Well, I don't disagree with your assessment,
29:47and neither do, apparently,
29:49a lot of elected Republicans,
29:50because when you do see Republicans
29:52that still have to contend in partisan primaries,
29:56you don't see very many of them
29:58being critical of Mr. Trump.
30:00My personal situation is,
30:01I've never aspired to have a job
30:04other than the one that I have now
30:06as mayor of my hometown.
30:08And I'm term-limited out,
30:10so maybe that's where I find my courage.
30:14But that's the way it is,
30:18and I am free to speak my mind
30:20and to state the obvious,
30:21which is that the Republican Party
30:23is in a lot of trouble.
30:24We've always had the far right
30:28as part of our coalition,
30:30but that segment of the party has taken over.
30:34And to paraphrase Kerry Lake,
30:37one of our candidates in Arizona,
30:39she's told people
30:41who are not part of the MAGA contingent
30:43to get the hell out of the room.
30:44And so that's not a healthy,
30:46big tent Republican Party.
30:48This isn't the first time
30:50that you endorsed a Democrat.
30:51Back in 2022, you endorsed Mark Kelly,
30:54and some of your colleagues
30:55on the Republican side,
30:57they wanted other Republicans
30:59to cease recognition of you as a Republican
31:02and to cease supporting you
31:03in any future election.
31:05That doesn't sound, even two years ago,
31:08that that big tent has shrunk a lot smaller.
31:11It absolutely has,
31:13and that's been the path
31:15that this party's continued to go down.
31:17And it hasn't been a winning strategy.
31:19In Arizona, the MAGA party
31:22has been successful
31:23in excluding a lot of us,
31:26and they continue,
31:27they win the partisan primary elections,
31:30and then they fail miserably
31:32in the general election
31:33because the majority of,
31:36I mean, right now in Arizona,
31:38the independents equal
31:40the number of Democrats and Republicans
31:43because, again,
31:44this exclusionary policy
31:46of the MAGA crowd
31:49trying to cleanse the party
31:50of anybody that disagrees with them.
31:52So what happens to people
31:54who are more centrist
31:56from the Republican side,
31:57perhaps less progressive
31:58from the Democrat side?
32:00Where do they go?
32:03Well, a lot of us
32:05are politically homeless,
32:06but there's something
32:07on the ballot right now.
32:08Across the country,
32:09you're seeing a push
32:10for open primaries,
32:12where instead of sending
32:14the far right
32:15and the far left candidate
32:16into the general election
32:18and you kind of have a choice
32:20of the lesser of two evils,
32:22the mainstream electorate
32:25gets to weigh in
32:26from the very beginning
32:27and has the privilege
32:29of choosing
32:30who the final two candidates will be.
32:32You know, last night
32:33at the convention,
32:35one of the quotes you had,
32:36I have an urgent message
32:38for the majority of Americans
32:39who, like me,
32:40are in the political middle.
32:41John McCain's Republican Party
32:42is gone and we don't owe
32:44a damn thing
32:45to what's been left behind.
32:47What do you think it is
32:48that animates people
32:49to stay loyal?
32:52What do you say to people
32:53who feel like,
32:54wait a minute,
32:55this is my political tribe.
32:58I can't defect.
32:59Well, I absolutely relate to them
33:02and I've been
33:03a lifelong Republican
33:04and it's been,
33:06you know,
33:07there hasn't been a lot of debate,
33:08you know,
33:09previously in my life
33:10as to who to vote for.
33:12But on the other hand,
33:13I have,
33:15as you're aware,
33:17not been shy about voting
33:19for the best candidate
33:20when I know
33:21it's not the Republican.
33:22So we just need to remind people
33:24that they absolutely doubt,
33:27there's no reason
33:28to feel tremendous loyalty
33:29to a political party.
33:31And it is important
33:32to vote for the best candidate.
33:33And in this election,
33:35that's not Donald Trump.
33:37I have to ask,
33:38I guess,
33:39what drew you
33:40to the Republican Party
33:42when you started in politics?
33:43What is that party like
33:45juxtaposed
33:46to where you find
33:48the majority of the power
33:50in the Republican Party today?
33:51Well,
33:53and people legitimately ask me,
33:55why do you continue
33:56to be a Republican?
33:57Why?
33:58And the answer is,
34:00I am more comfortable
34:02in terms of
34:04political positions
34:06in the Republican Party
34:07than I am in the Democratic Party.
34:09I continue to be
34:12concerned about
34:14open borders,
34:15which is
34:16something that's advocated for
34:18in a lot of the Democratic Party.
34:20I continue
34:21to be pro-life.
34:22There are,
34:24if you take
34:25the eight or nine top issues
34:27that the Republican Party
34:28has founded on,
34:29you know,
34:30I'm probably there with them
34:31on six or seven of them.
34:33And so,
34:35I resent being told
34:37that I have to leave
34:38the Republican Party
34:39because that's the party
34:40where my political philosophies
34:42are more closely aligned.
34:44I didn't leave the Republican Party.
34:46The Republican Party
34:47is trying desperately
34:48to leave me.
34:49And I think it's,
34:51we just need,
34:52I need to remind them.
34:53And I think it's important
34:54that voices like mine
34:55continue to
34:56remain in the party
34:57and point out
34:58that this is not
34:59a healthy direction,
35:00that we are spiraling down
35:01into obscurity as a party.
35:03Tell me,
35:04let's talk a little bit about
35:05border and immigration.
35:07You are a border state.
35:08You know this very well.
35:10Tell me about the impact
35:12that it has had
35:13and
35:14why this is
35:16so animating
35:17for
35:18Republicans
35:19and Independents
35:20and even Democrats
35:21in Arizona.
35:22Sure.
35:23As a border state,
35:24we see firsthand
35:26the impact of
35:28anytime there's a surge
35:29at the border
35:30or
35:31we have some
35:32failed policies
35:34at the border
35:35and in our immigration laws.
35:36And
35:37I think one of the,
35:39Kamala Harris
35:40needs to get out
35:41and help people understand
35:42that
35:43the
35:44executive orders
35:45that
35:46have
35:47been used
35:48by President Obama
35:49and more recently
35:50and under
35:51President Biden
35:52to
35:53modify
35:54asylum seekers
35:55and
35:56some of
35:57the
35:58enforcement
35:59policies
36:00at the border,
36:01they're no substitute
36:02for
36:03congressional action
36:04to actually
36:05fix the loopholes
36:06in our immigration
36:07and border policies.
36:08So
36:09the solution,
36:10something that
36:11would have been
36:12a tremendous solution
36:13is the bipartisan
36:14Immigration and Border Act
36:16that my own
36:17Senator Sinema
36:18and
36:19conservative
36:20Senator Langford
36:21and others
36:22worked on
36:23for many, many months
36:24was absolutely
36:25agreed to
36:26by the leadership
36:27of both parties
36:28and the President
36:29and was on
36:30its way
36:31to having
36:32some real
36:33impact
36:34until
36:35Donald Trump
36:36decided
36:37that he wanted
36:38this very divisive
36:39emotional wedge
36:40issue
36:41to be front and
36:42center
36:43because he thought
36:44that it was,
36:45it would play to
36:46his political
36:47advantage.
36:48So to me,
36:49that's another
36:50reason why
36:51Donald Trump
36:52is disqualified
36:53as President.
36:54His priorities
36:55clearly are not
36:56what's in the
36:57best interest
36:58of our country.
36:59I think there are
37:00a lot of folks
37:01who say,
37:02look,
37:03I'm not
37:04for
37:05wide open
37:06borders,
37:07but at the
37:08same time,
37:09I also
37:10am trying
37:11to empathize
37:12with the
37:13reason that
37:14some of
37:15these women
37:16and children
37:17are making
37:18these incredibly
37:19difficult choices
37:20to get
37:21out of
37:22this
37:23situation.
37:24I think
37:25that's a
37:26very
37:27compelling
37:28human element
37:29to this
37:30situation,
37:31and there's
37:32a lot of
37:33real suffering
37:34that is
37:35hard to
37:36ignore
37:37and that
37:38we need
37:39to be
37:40empathetic
37:41for.
37:42But at
37:43the same
37:44time,
37:45when we
37:46send
37:47conflicting
37:48messages,
37:49we're
37:50not
37:51sending
37:52the right
37:53message.
37:54I can tell
37:55you, we
37:56absolutely
37:57need
37:58immigration
37:59in our
38:00country.
38:01In my
38:02country,
38:03we need
38:04immigration
38:05in our
38:06country.
38:07We need
38:08immigration
38:09in our
38:10country.
38:11We need
38:12immigration
38:13in our
38:14country.
38:15We need
38:16immigration
38:17in our
38:18country.
38:19In my
38:20city, I
38:21have a lot
38:22more jobs
38:23than I
38:24have people,
38:25and the
38:26economic impact
38:27of immigration
38:28is very
38:29significant.
38:30The border
38:31is not a
38:32liability in
38:33Arizona.
38:34The border
38:35is a huge
38:36advantage.
38:37It's an
38:38amazing part
38:39of our
38:40economy.
38:41And so
38:42that's part
38:43of why I'm
38:44so anxious
38:45that the
38:46people of
38:47Arizona
38:48and the
38:49people of
38:50Arizona
38:51and the
38:52people of
38:53Arizona
38:54have
38:55made quite
38:56a few
38:57ads talking
38:58about Kamala
38:59Harris as
39:00a failed
39:01immigration
39:02and borders
39:03are.
39:04In the
39:05opportunities
39:06that you
39:07might have
39:08had to
39:09speak with
39:10Vice
39:11President
39:12Harris,
39:13what was
39:14your number
39:15one
39:16concern
39:17with
39:18the
39:19bipartisan
39:20legislation
39:21working
39:22its way
39:23through
39:24Congress?
39:25Well, I
39:26think she
39:27needs to
39:28explain
39:29exactly that.
39:30What power
39:31does the
39:32executive
39:33have in
39:34influencing
39:35this
39:36absent
39:37action from
39:38Congress?
39:39Donald Trump
39:40had the
39:41advantage of
39:42Title 42
39:43for a
39:44long time
39:45and
39:46President
39:47Biden
39:48tried to
39:49continue to
39:50do that
39:51until the
39:52courts told
39:53him he
39:54couldn't do
39:55it anymore.
39:56Vice President
39:57Harris has to
39:58explain what
39:59her role
40:00has been
40:01at this
40:02point.
40:03The good
40:04work she
40:05did in
40:06the northern
40:07triangle
40:08trying to
40:09address the
40:10root causes
40:11of migration
40:12out of that
40:13was
40:14a
40:15reform
40:16act
40:17that was
40:18poised to
40:19be passed
40:20a few
40:21months ago.
40:22She continues
40:23to be committed
40:24to that.
40:25That's a good
40:26solution.
40:27It's far
40:28from perfect.
40:29It's very
40:30much a
40:31compromise.
40:32It doesn't
40:33include
40:34important
40:35issues like
40:36addressing
40:37dreamers.
40:38At the
40:39same time
40:40it accomplishes
40:41a lot.
40:42The
40:43concern that
40:44a lot of
40:45people have
40:46watching
40:47this election
40:48season is
40:49what will
40:50happen in
40:51Arizona.
40:52It's not
40:53just a
40:54key battle
40:55ground state
40:56but the
40:57epicenter for
40:58so many
40:59election
41:00misinformation
41:01and
41:02disinformation
41:03and
41:04election
41:05denialism
41:06campaigns
41:07that have
41:08happened
41:09since the
41:10last election.
41:11That will
41:12be certified
41:13by a
41:14board of
41:15electors
41:16regardless of
41:17who the
41:18winner is.
41:19I do.
41:20Arizona is
41:21actually
41:22very good
41:23at putting
41:24on elections
41:25but election
41:26deniers are
41:27very good
41:28and brave
41:29about challenging
41:30them.
41:31In the last
41:32several elections
41:33there hasn't
41:34been any
41:35indication
41:36that there's
41:37been any
41:38wrongdoing
41:39in the way
41:40that the
41:41election
41:42process
41:43has been
41:44handled.
41:45There are
41:46very
41:47competent
41:48elected
41:49and professional
41:50people in
41:51that area
41:52in Arizona.
41:53I don't
41:54have concerns
41:55about the
41:56security of
41:57our elections.
41:58At the
41:59same time
42:00I absolutely
42:01will guarantee
42:02you that
42:03there will
42:04be people
42:05stepping up
42:06making those
42:07types of
42:08allegations.
42:09I don't
42:10have any
42:11indication
42:12that there's
42:13any substance
42:14to that.
42:15You've
42:16said before
42:17that if
42:18President
42:19Trump is
42:20reelected
42:21to office
42:22that he
42:23may not
42:24leave office
42:25at the end
42:26of that
42:27term.
42:28Was that
42:29being
42:30hyperbolic?
42:31It was a
42:32little bit
42:33but it's
42:34less
42:35hyperbolic
42:36than Mr.
42:37Trump.
42:38When he's
42:39literally
42:40suggesting
42:41that we
42:42only need
42:43one more
42:44election and
42:45the country
42:46will be
42:47baked,
42:48how do you
42:49respond to
42:50that?
42:51That's
42:52hyperbolic.
42:53Is he
42:54going to
42:55be capable
42:56of making
42:57it so we
42:58don't need
42:59to vote
43:00after this
43:01election?
43:02Of course
43:03not.
43:04I think
43:05we need to
43:06point out
43:07that that
43:08is not
43:09appropriate
43:10either.
43:11What is
43:12your assessment
43:13of the
43:14future of
43:15the Republican
43:16Party if
43:17Trump wins
43:18and if
43:19Trump loses?
43:20This is a
43:21big question
43:22because the
43:23future of the
43:24Republican
43:25Party is
43:26very much
43:27on the
43:28ballot this
43:29year.
43:30As someone
43:31who continues
43:32to hold
43:33out hope
43:34that the
43:35Republican
43:36Party is
43:37not
43:38successful,
43:39I'm hoping
43:40that the
43:41MAGA
43:42candidates
43:43who are
43:44loyal to
43:45Mr.
43:46Trump are
43:47not successful
43:48and that
43:49maybe some
43:50continued
43:51failure will
43:52motivate them
43:53to acknowledge
43:54the need
43:55for a
43:56bigger tent
43:57and that
43:58control of
43:59the party
44:00will be
44:01wrestled
44:02away from
44:03the MAGA
44:04folks.
44:05That is
44:06not going
44:07to change
44:08their mind.
44:09I think
44:10there has
44:11been speculation
44:12that even
44:13if Mr.
44:14Trump loses
44:15for as long
44:16as he wants
44:17to exert
44:18influence over
44:19the party,
44:20he is in
44:21control.
44:22That is the
44:23doomsday
44:24scenario that
44:25I'm not sure
44:26how we
44:27recover from.
44:28This country
44:29needs two
44:30strong parties
44:31and as long
44:32as Donald
44:33Trump is
44:34in
44:35control of
44:36the party,
44:37he is in
44:38control of
44:39the party.
44:40Thank you for
44:41joining us.
44:42My pleasure.
44:43As we just
44:44heard from the
44:45mayor,
44:46for many
44:47Americans,
44:48immigration is
44:49becoming a
44:50top concern
44:51ahead of the
44:52presidential
44:53election.
44:54My next
44:55guest knows
44:56what this
44:57issue means
44:58to voters
44:59better than
45:00most.
45:01She is
45:02the Democratic
45:03Leader of
45:04the United States.
45:05She is
45:06joining me
45:07now from
45:08Chicago from
45:09inside the
45:10convention hall.
45:11Welcome,
45:12Congresswoman.
45:13Wonderful to
45:14see you.
45:15Thank you for
45:16having me on.
45:17You too.
45:18I know you are
45:19getting ready and
45:20you have been
45:21practicing your
45:22speaking for
45:23your big turn
45:24in the limelight
45:25and on that
45:26big stage where
45:27there have been
45:28so many
45:29barnstorming
45:30speeches.
45:31Can I just
45:32ask you
45:33about
45:34the
45:35Republican
45:36leadership?
45:37He talked
45:38about
45:39supporting
45:40Kamala Harris.
45:41He is a
45:42Republican.
45:43I know
45:44that clearly
45:45one aim of
45:46this convention
45:47is to get
45:48as many
45:49Republicans
45:50to decide
45:51to support
45:52her as
45:53possible.
45:54How do
45:55you think
45:56that is
45:57going?
45:58I think
45:59it is going
46:00extraordinarily
46:01well.
46:02I
46:03think
46:04it is
46:05going
46:06extremely
46:07well.
46:08I
46:09think
46:10it is
46:11going
46:12extremely
46:13well.
46:14I
46:15think
46:16it is
46:17going
46:18extremely
46:19well.
46:20I
46:21think
46:22it is
46:23going
46:24extremely
46:25well.
46:26I
46:27think
46:28it is
46:29going
46:30extremely
46:31well.
46:32I
46:33think
46:34it is
46:35going
46:36extremely
46:37well.
46:38I
46:39think
46:40it is
46:41going
46:42extremely
46:43well.
46:44I
46:45think
46:46it is
46:47going
46:48extremely
46:49well.
46:50I
46:51think
46:52it is
46:53going
46:54extremely
46:55well.
46:56I
46:57think
46:58it is
46:59going
47:00extremely
47:01well.
47:02I
47:03think
47:04it is
47:05going
47:06extremely
47:07well.
47:08I
47:09think
47:10it is
47:11going
47:12extremely
47:13well.
47:14while taking swipes at Trump,
47:16spoke about the immigration issue.
47:18Let me just play what he said.
47:21The truth is, Donald Trump sees power
47:24as nothing more than a means to his ends.
47:28He wants the middle class to pay the price
47:30for another huge tax cut
47:31that would mostly help him and his rich friends.
47:37He killed a bipartisan immigration deal
47:41written in part by one of the most conservative
47:43Republicans in Congress
47:46that would have helped secure our southern border
47:48because he thought trying to actually solve the problem
47:53would hurt his campaign.
47:57He doesn't...
47:59Do not boo.
48:02Vote.
48:07So, Congresswoman, President Obama
48:09is putting a really important finger on the fact
48:12that the entire system has failed
48:15to deal with immigration, Democrats, Republicans.
48:18And what can you do to actually address a problem
48:23that does need addressing?
48:25And in what parts does it need addressing?
48:27What would an ideal immigration reform bill look like today?
48:34Absolutely. And I'll tell you,
48:36Americans want Congress to get to work and do its job
48:41and reform our outdated immigration laws.
48:44And the mayor mentioned that executive orders
48:47can only accomplish so much.
48:50In fact, Americans have a little bit of amnesia
48:53about the Donald Trump administration with immigration.
48:56That was my first term in Congress,
48:58and I brought hundreds of members of Congress...
49:02Well, I brought about 25% of Congress to El Paso
49:06to see the conditions,
49:07the extraordinary conditions under which people
49:10were being held in the most inhumanitarian way
49:14by the Trump administration.
49:15So we had a high number of border encounters
49:20and apprehensions even during Donald Trump's era.
49:24But what we want and what Americans want,
49:26and frankly, no one wants reform more than those of us
49:29who live on the border,
49:31what we want is for Congress to get to work.
49:33I have a bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill.
49:37It's not everything that Democrats want,
49:39it's not everything Republicans want,
49:41but it is a compromise.
49:43Vice President Harris came to El Paso.
49:46She understands the complexity of the issue.
49:50She knows that Congress needs to work in a bipartisan way,
49:54and she is a leader who will help us achieve that.
49:58But that's why this convention is so important.
50:01We need to elect Democrats up and down the ballot
50:04who will give her the support
50:08and, frankly, give us the majorities
50:10in order to make those changes.
50:13We know that Republicans have stood in the way
50:16and have actually obstructed the last three efforts
50:19at bipartisan compromise on this issue.
50:22In the last decade alone,
50:24three efforts have been scuttled by Republicans.
50:27So the question is, which party is more serious?
50:30And I will tell you, it's the Democratic Party.
50:32Well, you may say that, but for whatever reason,
50:3536% of Americans say not only is it a top immigration issue,
50:39more of them trust Trump to deal with it than Harris.
50:41That's 46% to 37%, according to at least one poll.
50:44And I want to play, you know, a repeated attack line
50:49that Trump is using about this very issue
50:51and about Kamala Harris herself.
50:55Now we're talking about migrant crime
50:56because people are coming in from all over the world.
50:59Criminals are coming into our country
51:01because we allowed to have an open border
51:03through Kamala Harris, who is the border czar.
51:07So that was to CNN yesterday
51:09during a campaign appearance in Michigan.
51:12So how are you going to address this, then?
51:16Because it is a famous attack line,
51:19and it worked in the last 2016 election.
51:23We are doing everything we can to get our message out.
51:27And we've got a lot of work to do
51:29in the remaining couple of months leading up to November.
51:32We've got to draw the contrast.
51:34Donald Trump separated families at the border,
51:38and his Project 2025 is seeking to take us back
51:43to a very dark era in American history,
51:47when during the Eisenhower administration,
51:5060% of people who were deported
51:52as part of a mass deportation effort were legal immigrants.
51:57And Trump's Project 2025
51:59seeks to remove legal immigrants from this country.
52:03Look, we know, Democrats know that the system is broken
52:07and needs to be reformed.
52:08But what Donald Trump is pushing is un-American.
52:12Mass deportations,
52:14claiming that immigrants poisoned the blood of America,
52:17that's vile language.
52:19And we know that immigrants
52:21are an important part of our economy.
52:24In fact, the Congressional Budget Office
52:26talked about how post-COVID,
52:28it was immigrants and the immigrant labor force
52:31that saved our country.
52:33We've got to reform the system
52:35in a way that responds to what is happening today
52:38at our nation's front door,
52:40but that also opens up legal pathways for immigrants,
52:43because our country, a nation of immigrants, needs immigrants.
52:47And it is, as you say,
52:48an incredibly important balancing act
52:50that has to be taken and has to be resolved.
52:54I'm reminded that at the Republican National Convention,
52:57people were waving signs
52:58about mass deportation and the like.
53:01How do you account for the Latino vote?
53:04I don't know whether it's fair just to ask you that,
53:06but clearly there are constituencies
53:08that each party is trying to win.
53:10They make up 10% of the electorate.
53:12They did in 2020.
53:14Kamala Harris is making up some ground
53:16that Biden sort of, but remains below Biden's 2020 levels.
53:21Where do you think that vote is going to go?
53:23We hear that a lot of Latino men, for instance,
53:26are more inclined to the Republicans,
53:28but maybe other demographics not.
53:30Where is your work cut out for you?
53:35Well, I want to say first that the Biden-Harris campaign,
53:40when President Biden was still at the top of the ticket,
53:43focused early on on Latino voters.
53:46And we launched Latinos con Biden-Harris very early on.
53:51We made investments, especially in battleground states,
53:54within Latino communities.
53:56The Harris-Waltz campaign is building on that early work.
54:01We have a ground game.
54:03I have been spending time with Latino communities
54:06in battleground states to listen to Latino voters,
54:10to engage with them, to talk with them,
54:13and to the vice president's point,
54:15something she says over and over again, to earn their vote.
54:19We are not taking Latinos for granted,
54:22but we want to ensure that they know
54:25that they have tremendous power in their vote
54:28and that we are the party.
54:30And Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are the ticket
54:33that will help ensure
54:35that Latino communities prosper and thrive.
54:39We want to remind Latino communities
54:41that the Donald Trump, J.D. Vance ticket
54:44really is only in it for the billionaire class
54:48and that their trickle-down strategies don't work for us.
54:52We believe in Latino communities.
54:55We care about Latino communities,
54:57and we're gonna keep talking to Latino communities
55:00to ask them for their support.
55:01Congresswoman Veronica Escobar,
55:03thank you so much for joining us from the convention.
55:06And that is it for our program tonight.
55:08If you want to find out what's coming up every night,
55:10sign up for our newsletter at pbs.org.
55:14Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.
55:18♪♪