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CreativityTranscript
00:00:00Why am I in a place like this? Why do I sit in this kitchen every night?
00:00:26Is this a picture of some television?
00:00:28Then I'll become popular, famous, I'll be in the news, I'll talk about all the shows, I'll talk about agriculture, about schooling, about families.
00:00:35And until I sit here, I have a duty to sit here. I am a duty, my life is a duty, everything is a duty.
00:00:42I even have a duty to take a shit.
00:00:45Why can't I leave all this? Why is the world such that I am like this?
00:00:50Why is the world such that I am like this? Why can't I leave all this?
00:00:57Why is there a pause in life, a half-time, that a man goes to the bathroom somewhere?
00:01:03Why is my life like a television?
00:01:06They play movies, and I remember the ads for cleaning the closet, underwear, make-up for muscles.
00:01:12Why don't they play ads? Every day they publish movies, it's normal.
00:01:16Why am I like this?
00:01:18Why don't I have to run away from all this, but I want to know that I can.
00:01:24That's it. To run away, to run away from my wife.
00:01:28I don't have to, but I can.
00:01:30To run away from my wife's sister, who has pimples, I'll buy petrol for March 8th.
00:01:35Why can't I run away from those children, from families, from meetings at school?
00:01:38I look at those parents, they are all morons, morons, imbeciles, peasants, primitives.
00:01:42Only I am normal.
00:01:44Why can't I run away from my birthday, when I have to go, when I can't?
00:01:49Why can't I run away from my birthday, when I can't?
00:01:51My wife always tells me, you'll wear this to look like a man.
00:01:54Otherwise I look like...
00:01:56And when I wear it, I'll look like a man.
00:01:58Why can't I run away from my married brother, who, when he gets drunk, will tell me,
00:02:04I don't know, I'm going to a bar.
00:02:06And my wife will kick me out of the table.
00:02:08Let him talk, let him talk.
00:02:10Why can't I run away from my friends and uncles,
00:02:13who want to talk to me seriously about politics and economy?
00:02:17When someone tells me the word politics and economy,
00:02:20my haemorrhoids bloom like roses.
00:02:23I can't listen to that shit anymore.
00:02:25I want to, I have to, I want to run away from all this.
00:02:29Why can't I run away from the ashtray in the car,
00:02:33which I empty and my wife blows?
00:02:35Because my wife thinks the ashtray is empty.
00:02:37It falls down somewhere by itself.
00:02:39Why can't I run away from the terrace,
00:02:41which I can't reach because it's a state property.
00:02:43And from the religious one.
00:02:44You don't work for the religious one.
00:02:45And I can't reach the state.
00:02:46My wife constantly calls me,
00:02:47When are you going to the terrace when Lenin comes back?
00:02:49I'll have time as much as you want.
00:02:51Why can't I run away from the shoes I bought in these shopping centers for sale?
00:02:56And when I walk with them, I wipe them,
00:02:58after bathing, I wet everything,
00:03:00so that the bucket does not go,
00:03:01a bucket, a drop of water on me.
00:03:03Why can't I run away from my socks,
00:03:05which are so worn out from washing,
00:03:07that I can't even touch them again?
00:03:09Somehow I feel sorry to throw them away.
00:03:11From the underwear, which is wrapped in five places,
00:03:13my wife says,
00:03:14just one more time,
00:03:15from the jacket,
00:03:16on which the elastic band was wrinkled,
00:03:17because my wife washes it at 95 degrees,
00:03:19and she is proud of the temperature,
00:03:20my jackets fall down.
00:03:21Why can't I run away from the pillow,
00:03:23on which a mold was made for my head,
00:03:25so that my head grows out of the mold,
00:03:27only when my hair grows.
00:03:29Why can't I run away from all this?
00:03:32What am I going to do here?
00:03:35When will I have a train to Finland?
00:03:46Good afternoon.
00:03:47Good afternoon.
00:03:48Welcome to the show.
00:03:49Thank you for having me.
00:03:51Dear viewers,
00:03:53the guest of today's show,
00:03:55Sunday at two,
00:03:56the actor,
00:03:58Zijak Sokolović.
00:04:00Why can't I run away?
00:04:02Why can't I run away?
00:04:03Is it possible to run away?
00:04:05I think it is possible.
00:04:06There is an old saying,
00:04:08let's run away,
00:04:09let's go back to art,
00:04:10maybe it is still relevant,
00:04:12but since it is not so affirmative,
00:04:15then probably people do not know
00:04:17that they can run away in that way
00:04:19from this everyday life.
00:04:22The current Croatian truth is that
00:04:25maybe many people want to run away,
00:04:28but they don't,
00:04:29they want to run away,
00:04:30I don't know,
00:04:31from the murderers,
00:04:32from the press,
00:04:33from the mafia,
00:04:34that's what is happening to us now,
00:04:36from politicians,
00:04:37who sometimes lie,
00:04:38sometimes they don't lie,
00:04:39they are the worst in the world,
00:04:41from the world economic crisis,
00:04:44from the Balkans,
00:04:45from everywhere,
00:04:46they want to expand,
00:04:48but they don't.
00:04:50Look,
00:04:51the man invented the theatre
00:04:54so that maybe with it
00:04:56he could better see the world,
00:04:58or see the world differently,
00:04:59or analyze it in a better way.
00:05:01So when we do performances in the theatre,
00:05:05we are aware of the consequences,
00:05:08like with Shakespeare's tragic characters,
00:05:11or negative characters,
00:05:13those consequences,
00:05:14but we,
00:05:15the artists who work in the theatre,
00:05:17have the power to analyze
00:05:19and look for the reasons for those consequences,
00:05:21and what is happening now
00:05:22are the consequences.
00:05:24Art should now go through art
00:05:26and look through art
00:05:27to find the reasons for those consequences.
00:05:29Correcting the present
00:05:31is impractical
00:05:34because it will be repeated over and over again.
00:05:37I am trying to analyze things through art,
00:05:40and then many things will be discovered
00:05:42in a new form and in a new light.
00:05:44And maybe that is why
00:05:45people from the theatre
00:05:47are so involved in the world,
00:05:50to be constantly present in it,
00:05:52to be participants in all this.
00:05:54What is with the amount of aggression
00:05:57that we are exposed to every day?
00:05:59And we are.
00:06:00Constantly.
00:06:01Maybe it is because we are in a transition
00:06:04from one time to another.
00:06:06Naturally, one generation
00:06:08comes to the phase of old age
00:06:10and becomes aggressive from the inside,
00:06:13because one process ends.
00:06:14It is a natural process,
00:06:15outside of this.
00:06:16And this other one,
00:06:17let's say,
00:06:18is a process from one system to another,
00:06:20a process of nationalism
00:06:22that led to a war
00:06:24that lasted too long.
00:06:25A process before, for a while,
00:06:26and after that.
00:06:27And people have gathered
00:06:29all that energy
00:06:31that they can't get from outside.
00:06:33Because they were involved
00:06:35in that common concept
00:06:36of us, all together.
00:06:37So, an individual world
00:06:39of individuals
00:06:41has completely lost itself
00:06:43in this mass.
00:06:44And maybe one more thing
00:06:46that is important,
00:06:47against which Socrates was against,
00:06:50people voted for this.
00:06:53And in a way,
00:06:55they wanted to solve it as soon as possible,
00:06:58so that their part of responsibility,
00:07:00that it is so,
00:07:01could be erased and forgotten
00:07:03as soon as possible.
00:07:05Well, yes.
00:07:06I mean, here we are talking
00:07:08about a Croatian truth,
00:07:09which is probably not much different
00:07:11from some truths
00:07:12of these transitional countries,
00:07:14which we all call
00:07:15traumatic experiences
00:07:16of the misfortune of others.
00:07:17These days.
00:07:18But somehow again,
00:07:19we think it's good for us.
00:07:20It's good for us anyway.
00:07:21You see what's happening
00:07:22to others.
00:07:23We are somehow safe again.
00:07:25It's warm.
00:07:26That's why the news is like that,
00:07:28unlike some other countries,
00:07:30from the environment
00:07:31in which you live.
00:07:32And that's why the newspapers
00:07:33are different.
00:07:34They are filled again
00:07:35from the cabaret,
00:07:36from art.
00:07:37There is too much information
00:07:39about the dead,
00:07:40about accidents,
00:07:41about disasters.
00:07:42The black chronicles
00:07:43are no longer on two,
00:07:44but on four sides,
00:07:45on eight sides.
00:07:46So, when you look at the news
00:07:47or the diary,
00:07:48and when you read it
00:07:49in the newspapers,
00:07:50a person really has
00:07:51a thousand reasons
00:07:52to be happy,
00:07:53that he is alive at all.
00:07:54And that is taken
00:07:55with great joy.
00:07:56After that tragedy,
00:07:57maybe even with a woman,
00:07:58there is some relationship,
00:07:59because it is a smaller tragedy
00:08:00than what he saw
00:08:01on television.
00:08:02Don't you think
00:08:03that our little,
00:08:04so to speak,
00:08:05small crimes,
00:08:06which we commit
00:08:07every day,
00:08:08are forgotten
00:08:09at the moment
00:08:10when we see
00:08:11this great evil.
00:08:12Then we think
00:08:13it won't happen to us.
00:08:14We are not going to
00:08:15die.
00:08:16We are not going
00:08:17to commit this bad
00:08:18crime to ourselves.
00:08:19We are safe.
00:08:20Listen,
00:08:21the organization of
00:08:22society,
00:08:23or the sociology of
00:08:24society,
00:08:25is a great science.
00:08:26It is certain that
00:08:27society allows
00:08:28those small crimes
00:08:29to be committed
00:08:30to small people
00:08:31to make them
00:08:32longer for these
00:08:33great crimes
00:08:34to pass them by.
00:08:35That is how
00:08:36I see it.
00:08:37How does it look
00:08:38when,
00:08:39now we are going
00:08:40to talk
00:08:41about you a little,
00:08:42personally,
00:08:43when your
00:08:44current life,
00:08:45First of all, I will try to analyze the work in 5 minutes, 5 minutes and 10 seconds, to be more precise.
00:08:51We will look at the contribution of Nataša Ledić.
00:08:53So, the contribution to the guest of today's show is the actor Zijahu Sokolović.
00:08:56Let's see.
00:09:03He is a free actor, author, editor, teacher and eternal traveler.
00:09:08Zijahu Sokolović has been on the boards for almost 40 years, which means life.
00:09:12He is always equally professional, his co-workers will say.
00:09:16For his 856th performance, he prepares as if it were a premiere.
00:09:21The curtain is working, isn't it?
00:09:23It's working.
00:09:24It's working. Thank you.
00:09:25Give me white.
00:09:28So, reduce it.
00:09:30Super.
00:09:32Gentlemen, happy new season.
00:09:40And in the new season for Zijahu's monodrama Cabarets Cabaret,
00:09:43in the course of years of performance,
00:09:45the entrances to the Zagreb Theater Exit are sold out.
00:09:48Intimate are the spiritual thoughts of an angry medieval man about marriage and the state.
00:09:54In the darkness of his kitchen, he talks to the ants and to himself.
00:09:58Kap, kap, all of a sudden, shit.
00:10:05Humanization of housing.
00:10:07That's how it's planned, designed and planned,
00:10:10so that the sewage always goes through the kitchen and through the living room.
00:10:14That's how you have constant contact with neighbors.
00:10:17The one who shits has solid shit and the one who is suffering from problems.
00:10:21That way, somehow, through the shit, you have a feeling that you are an important social person.
00:10:27Always shit comes from the sewage.
00:10:30Kap, kap, kap, kap, kap, kap.
00:10:32People actually experience a kind of catharsis through laughter.
00:10:36People actually laugh at what he does or what he does.
00:10:43They actually laugh at themselves.
00:10:45Hands in the air, hands in the air, high.
00:10:48The fact that he can keep the audience's attention for more than two hours
00:10:55and that he can attract the audience to the performance,
00:10:59that's really a unique phenomenon.
00:11:02It's rare for an actor to be able to do that.
00:11:06One, ten.
00:11:08One, two, three.
00:11:15Čehovljeva Medvjeda performed in such a way
00:11:17that he received the highest recognition and awards in the middle of Moscow.
00:11:20Sokolović's dialogue with imaginary characters
00:11:23embodied in the music of the saxophone and the bass guitar.
00:11:28I've never seen more women than I've seen a pig on the border.
00:11:34Sokolović is among the first generation of trained actors in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:11:38Born 58 years ago in Sarajevo,
00:11:41his professional acting career began at the age of 18.
00:11:44He also studied acting and theater.
00:11:47Gradimir Gojer remembers him as an outstanding student.
00:11:50He was very early, regardless of his great success
00:11:55in performances with several actors,
00:11:59he decided to be his own master,
00:12:02to make his own private manufacture and to go out into the world.
00:12:06In 1977, he wrote a text for the world-famous monodrama
00:12:10The Actor is the Actor is the Actor.
00:12:13He has performed in a small theater for 30 years,
00:12:16more than 1,500 times so far.
00:12:19I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming,
00:12:24I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming.
00:12:29For his acting, enthusiasm is not important
00:12:31to be in a big theatre,
00:12:33a private apartment is enough.
00:12:35So recently, as a birthday surprise,
00:12:37he acted in the apartment of a Zagreb pensioner.
00:12:40He came from Vienna that day,
00:12:42he came back from Vienna, it was raining.
00:12:45He's a strange man, really.
00:12:48He can be so simple and great.
00:12:52Sokolović also acts in the film,
00:12:54in Vrdoljak's Zagrljaj,
00:12:56in Grličevo's Samo jednom se ljubi,
00:12:58in the road to Ljubenica.
00:13:00According to his biographical data,
00:13:02he should be mentioned in 1992.
00:13:05Both of them, from Uzavrelo's Sarajevo to Vienna,
00:13:07performed in Novi Sad.
00:13:1090% of actors in Zagreb said
00:13:12they stopped greeting him then.
00:13:14The situation has changed since then.
00:13:16He's almost the only one, actually,
00:13:18who broke the borders,
00:13:22namely, the borders that are the borders
00:13:25of these new, our countries.
00:13:28He actually destroyed them,
00:13:30because he left good traces behind him.
00:13:33He's actually an incredible person,
00:13:37not everyone can be like him.
00:13:40Besides, he's a passionate traveler,
00:13:42a man who's not tied to anything
00:13:44except for his freedom, for nothing.
00:13:47Sokolović in Austria, Slovenia,
00:13:49sells, establishes and runs a kindergarten,
00:13:52educates and entertains children.
00:13:54It's hard to count his awards.
00:13:56His friends will say,
00:13:58he's a rare and simple man.
00:14:00I'd like you to excuse me,
00:14:04if you don't understand me.
00:14:12He says, he says,
00:14:14his colleague quotes someone else,
00:14:17he says, he's a rare and simple man,
00:14:19let's not thank you,
00:14:21let's start with this strange man.
00:14:23When you host a show for one person,
00:14:27sometimes you come to his apartment,
00:14:31host the show and go back to Vienna.
00:14:34That's normal, expected,
00:14:36you probably do it now,
00:14:38but this man you hosted the show with,
00:14:41is very strange.
00:14:43When I put in the actor-actor-replica
00:14:45a man and a being possibilities,
00:14:47according to Marx,
00:14:49then I somehow tried to use
00:14:51it in relation to nature,
00:14:53and not in relation to circumstances
00:14:55or calculations.
00:14:57It's like researching an actor,
00:14:59I had actors, actors, actors,
00:15:01because I played 1,500 shows,
00:15:04of which maybe 700 were in slaughterhouses,
00:15:08everything else was in other places.
00:15:11A man learns and feels
00:15:13a completely different world,
00:15:15feels different possibilities
00:15:17and at the end of the play
00:15:19you have a very unusual,
00:15:21interesting art,
00:15:23which has one more dimension,
00:15:25apart from that fairy-tale love,
00:15:27or television, or film,
00:15:29that's the dimension
00:15:31to be able to go and play
00:15:33one person,
00:15:35like we have now
00:15:37to play one show
00:15:39for one child in his house,
00:15:41these are children with disabilities,
00:15:43here we played 30 shows,
00:15:45his personal show,
00:15:47because I think that an actor
00:15:49and an actor,
00:15:51his art is a kind of therapy.
00:15:53So that experience,
00:15:55when I went to play,
00:15:57and yesterday afternoon
00:15:59I was also there
00:16:01at a wedding,
00:16:03so I participated,
00:16:05and it's incredible how that space
00:16:07can become a communication,
00:16:09which may not be a slaughterhouse space,
00:16:11but certainly a meeting
00:16:13between the actor and the viewer,
00:16:15that it is a slaughterhouse.
00:16:17What does that contact look like?
00:16:19Here you say that you act
00:16:21for handicapped children,
00:16:23what does it look like when you come to a child
00:16:25who may have,
00:16:27due to handicaps,
00:16:29difficulties in development,
00:16:31how does it follow you,
00:16:33how does it look like?
00:16:35I think that in some segment
00:16:37those children with disabilities
00:16:39in development,
00:16:41who are immobile and cannot speak,
00:16:43their experience of the world
00:16:45is much more natural,
00:16:47more real, more sincere
00:16:49than the so-called normal people
00:16:51we meet every day.
00:16:53Let's not talk about critics
00:16:55who often write things
00:16:57that are absolutely incomprehensible
00:16:59and are more handicapped
00:17:01in that sense of consciousness
00:17:03than these.
00:17:05I think it's an attempt
00:17:07in each of us to learn Columbo,
00:17:09so I see,
00:17:11I see that some children
00:17:13are completely dying,
00:17:15there is a feeling that some children
00:17:17are screaming all the time
00:17:19while the play is being presented,
00:17:21but that is their experience of art.
00:17:23I think it is a dialogue
00:17:25with some new things
00:17:27and a dialogue with a new world.
00:17:29I am very happy that I can
00:17:31deal with it at all,
00:17:33that I can explore it.
00:17:35You said enough.
00:17:37We met a boy,
00:17:39his name is Marin Kos,
00:17:41he is my friend,
00:17:43a boy with cerebral palsy,
00:17:45who is basically immobile.
00:17:47When we were leaving,
00:17:49he gave me some of his songs.
00:17:51You know,
00:17:53I speak purely from some realism,
00:17:55when you get something like that,
00:17:57a man always thinks
00:17:59about his reality,
00:18:01his burden,
00:18:03what will I do with this,
00:18:05so you carry it,
00:18:07I have a lot of things,
00:18:09to read what he gave me,
00:18:11but I have an obligation,
00:18:13a small obligation,
00:18:15which I have not lost yet,
00:18:17and then I read those songs
00:18:19and I was
00:18:21reached to some
00:18:23extreme limits,
00:18:25that a boy from the age of 11
00:18:27is immobile,
00:18:29but has so much optimism,
00:18:31so much happiness,
00:18:33so much love for life,
00:18:35a vision that we no longer see,
00:18:37so we decided
00:18:39to publish his book
00:18:41in a month,
00:18:43so that his world,
00:18:45through art,
00:18:47communicates further.
00:18:49There is another reply
00:18:51that relates to your question,
00:18:53and that is from this new cabaret
00:18:55between the games from 0 to 24.
00:18:57I feel more and more positive,
00:18:59because all that is good
00:19:01is slowly disappearing in me.
00:19:03That is why I am trying
00:19:05to find such a world.
00:19:07When we were with this gentleman,
00:19:09in Miroljanica,
00:19:11yes,
00:19:13there were people
00:19:15from his family,
00:19:17who probably rarely
00:19:19go to the execution ground.
00:19:21When it all happened,
00:19:23during the performance,
00:19:25a woman was sitting,
00:19:27it was so spiritual and funny,
00:19:29that she fell through the chair
00:19:31and the TV broke,
00:19:33but no one paid attention
00:19:35to that video,
00:19:37where we played the show until the end.
00:19:39Fantastic.
00:19:41I see you have to reassure the viewers,
00:19:43if not yourself.
00:19:45I don't want to say
00:19:47that in normal things
00:19:49it would be the most important,
00:19:51but in this thing it is not,
00:19:53and that is a fantastic
00:19:55artistic look at the world,
00:19:57proof that these things
00:19:59exist.
00:20:01You come from Vienna.
00:20:03Yes.
00:20:05There you live better than here.
00:20:07Is life there better than here?
00:20:09I think that there
00:20:11it is simpler,
00:20:13because it is north,
00:20:15so it is simpler,
00:20:17and because it is south,
00:20:19it is poorer.
00:20:21I want to say that
00:20:23things are more organized there.
00:20:25Do you like organization?
00:20:27Yes.
00:20:29You are an actor,
00:20:31one would expect
00:20:33everything to be messy,
00:20:35but it is not like that.
00:20:37I think that a certain type of order,
00:20:39where there is a large number of people,
00:20:41has to be organized,
00:20:43so that people function
00:20:45among each other in any interest.
00:20:47If that does not work,
00:20:49then disorder is created,
00:20:51a lot of time is lost
00:20:53on common things,
00:20:55and it is taken from the personal world,
00:20:57which is my call for cabaret.
00:20:59Do you violate that order,
00:21:01that as a real Bosnian,
00:21:03you leave your shoes
00:21:05in front of the door of the apartment?
00:21:07I do not, because I know exactly
00:21:09how many square meters is my space,
00:21:11but when a people
00:21:13leaves their shoes in front of the door,
00:21:15then behind the people,
00:21:17generations and so on,
00:21:19then it comes to the wars
00:21:21that we have come to today.
00:21:23What are those steps,
00:21:25how does it look to you?
00:21:27First you put it there,
00:21:29because it is convenient and good for you,
00:21:31and then when you keep it there,
00:21:33after two days,
00:21:35when the guests come,
00:21:37they put it there too,
00:21:39because it is a family,
00:21:41then the family learns
00:21:43never to put their shoes
00:21:45in front of the apartment,
00:21:47because they have already learned
00:21:49to put them there,
00:21:51so that no one would take them away,
00:21:53then it is best
00:21:55to make a cupboard
00:21:57to put in front of the door,
00:21:59so that the shoes do not stand
00:22:01in front of the door,
00:22:03and then it is logical
00:22:05when you have a cupboard
00:22:07so that no one would take it away,
00:22:09then you rebuild that part of the hallway,
00:22:11then you have to put a carpet
00:22:13there and that is the republic.
00:22:15Can someone else not like
00:22:17that republic at that moment?
00:22:19Well, if you do not like that space
00:22:21and the concept of housing,
00:22:23then you do not like that concept
00:22:25and then there is a conflict
00:22:27or aggression,
00:22:29but I think that if a certain force
00:22:31is established in the order,
00:22:33a state organization of power,
00:22:35we must know that,
00:22:37if that force is unconditionally
00:22:39organized in the direction
00:22:41of the functioning of the order,
00:22:43then it is perfection for one state,
00:22:45in which Plato believed
00:22:47I would like to stay with you,
00:22:49when you came in 1992
00:22:51to Vienna,
00:22:53these are ordinary questions
00:22:55that arise to you,
00:22:57but since this is,
00:22:59at least in my show,
00:23:01an inauguration interview,
00:23:03I will ask you what everyone
00:23:05asks you,
00:23:07how did you find yourself in
00:23:09Vienna in 1992?
00:23:11You once said that you brought
00:23:13a lot of things with you,
00:23:15but I thought,
00:23:17for example,
00:23:19when I played in Brecht's
00:23:21drums at night,
00:23:23this is also a text about
00:23:25war profiteers,
00:23:27people who stayed,
00:23:29did not go to the front,
00:23:31but the others robbed everything
00:23:33that could be used in some way
00:23:35with the war,
00:23:37and she has someone who loves her
00:23:39in the war,
00:23:41then I thought about the fact
00:23:43that I had to give my love to the end,
00:23:45which is a wonderful segment
00:23:47when we look at art,
00:23:49I think that when the war
00:23:51already happened,
00:23:53I thought that it was
00:23:55very positive for my world,
00:23:57because I had to get involved,
00:23:59I did not give up in my life
00:24:01like some good actor
00:24:03from the space of Yugoslavia,
00:24:05but I had to start over,
00:24:07I had to start all my mechanisms,
00:24:09to remember all the things
00:24:11and to organize my life in a new way.
00:24:13What about the engagement
00:24:15that others expected from you,
00:24:17to stay in Sarajevo
00:24:19and to participate in the war
00:24:21with a rifle on your shoulder?
00:24:23Many expected some other engagement,
00:24:25you chose the one you liked.
00:24:27I went to the status of a free artist in 1983,
00:24:29I was in one direction,
00:24:31everyone was in the other direction,
00:24:33I left that way of mass thinking
00:24:35and I became free,
00:24:37I traveled with my performance around the world,
00:24:39even though I was connected to Sarajevo,
00:24:41until 2-3 days before the occupation
00:24:43of the city of Sarajevo,
00:24:45I played the role of a dead soul
00:24:47in the National Theatre,
00:24:49in the Chamber Theatre,
00:24:51but I was in that freedom,
00:24:53I was connected to all the other cities
00:24:55in the former Yugoslavia,
00:24:57before the war I was in Dubrovnik,
00:24:59I played in Vadin,
00:25:01I was in Belgrade with two performances,
00:25:03Largo de Solato, Václav Havel
00:25:05and Laža para laža in Novi Sad,
00:25:07I was connected to Zagreb,
00:25:09to my performance,
00:25:11I simply wasn't there
00:25:13when the war started,
00:25:15I simply happened outside,
00:25:17I went to Vienna before the war,
00:25:19because the areas of nationalism
00:25:21were slowly closing,
00:25:23and I didn't have a place to play,
00:25:25I went to Vienna because
00:25:27Justus Neumann,
00:25:29my playwright,
00:25:31played for 6 years in Austria
00:25:33with great success,
00:25:35two new theatres opened in Austria,
00:25:37that play represented
00:25:39Austrian culture for 6 months
00:25:41in America,
00:25:43a month in Norway,
00:25:45that was my play,
00:25:47and I thought it was a world
00:25:49that already knew me,
00:25:51and it would be easier for me.
00:25:53Apart from the traumatic experience
00:25:55we all have,
00:25:57how was your experience
00:25:59connected to the consequences
00:26:01of your decision to go to Vienna
00:26:03or Sarajevo,
00:26:05or how did you deal with the consequences
00:26:07you had in Zagreb,
00:26:09because you performed in 1992
00:26:11in Novi Sad,
00:26:13and 90% of people
00:26:15didn't greet you
00:26:17in Zagreb,
00:26:19how did you deal with that?
00:26:23Can you describe the situation?
00:26:25Can we talk about it?
00:26:27What happened?
00:26:29I think that at that time,
00:26:31people who performed
00:26:33on all levels,
00:26:35didn't have the power
00:26:37before the war,
00:26:39especially during the war,
00:26:41to see art as a means of struggle
00:26:43or a means of reflection.
00:26:45At that moment
00:26:47it didn't matter to them.
00:26:49Even today, art is not so important
00:26:51for people to live happily.
00:26:53Maybe if I have the freedom to say,
00:26:55in socialism it was a bit different,
00:26:57a bit more positive.
00:26:59Anyway,
00:27:01my life changed.
00:27:03Even today,
00:27:05I don't have the freedom
00:27:07to go to the city in peace,
00:27:09or people don't understand
00:27:11what I did.
00:27:13They know it was politically
00:27:15very bad,
00:27:17but I didn't do anything
00:27:19political,
00:27:21but artistic.
00:27:23How do you deal with the situation
00:27:25when someone crosses the street
00:27:27with a gun in his hand?
00:27:29There was a situation
00:27:31when people left their cars
00:27:33and ran after me to beat me up.
00:27:35There was a situation
00:27:37when people took out their guns
00:27:39and left.
00:27:41Because they probably
00:27:43couldn't bring home
00:27:45the kind of crime
00:27:47that was appropriate
00:27:49to them,
00:27:51and then they took revenge
00:27:53on those who were
00:27:55with them.
00:27:57What about your friends?
00:27:59Life is like that.
00:28:01Friends remain friends,
00:28:03but
00:28:05real friends.
00:28:07People have
00:28:09some weak points,
00:28:11so they don't understand you,
00:28:13or they don't want to understand you,
00:28:15or they can't understand you.
00:28:17People can't understand
00:28:19the behavior of an actor.
00:28:21You are,
00:28:23let's say,
00:28:25a fugitive.
00:28:27What about
00:28:29those other people
00:28:31who left to live abroad,
00:28:33and you meet them?
00:28:35Did those people get rid
00:28:37of their war traumas?
00:28:39How do they live?
00:28:41No, I don't think so.
00:28:43I think that the generation
00:28:45that is ten years younger than me,
00:28:47we had the misfortune
00:28:49that the war started
00:28:51when you are in your forties,
00:28:53and you need a new life.
00:28:55Younger people lived much better
00:28:57because they naturally
00:28:59learned the language faster
00:29:01and established contacts
00:29:03with the environment they lived in.
00:29:05All the others,
00:29:07let's say my generation,
00:29:09are absolutely unfortunate people,
00:29:11people who are expelled,
00:29:13people who can't find themselves
00:29:15in those places and can't wait
00:29:17to go back to something
00:29:19to wait for the end
00:29:21of their lives.
00:29:23They are completely lost.
00:29:25They don't consume the art
00:29:27that is in the city they are in.
00:29:29They don't understand,
00:29:31they don't have the power
00:29:33to concentrate so much
00:29:35that they can understand
00:29:37things in a different way.
00:29:39If I'm not mistaken,
00:29:41you once said that you have
00:29:43good logistics,
00:29:45that you could organize
00:29:47an organization,
00:29:49which is really fascinating.
00:29:51People react to that
00:29:53positively and negatively.
00:29:55It is enough that in a building
00:29:57with 20 floors,
00:29:59the neighbor says
00:30:01that she drinks from the 10th floor
00:30:03and beats her wife,
00:30:05and that the neighbor
00:30:07has his own version
00:30:09of how he beats his wife.
00:30:11Maybe he doesn't have a child,
00:30:13but he beats his mother
00:30:15and he can easily
00:30:17turn into a war.
00:30:19What is a segment
00:30:21of every war
00:30:23is a question of the past.
00:30:25Because the arguments
00:30:27that we didn't participate in,
00:30:29arguments that we don't know
00:30:31how they looked,
00:30:33convince us that they are
00:30:35the way they are and the reasons
00:30:37why the world is changing
00:30:39in the name of something
00:30:41that we are not aware of
00:30:43and they say that history
00:30:45is a collection of fakes,
00:30:47deceit and lies.
00:30:49Even when a football game
00:30:51is played today,
00:30:53or a handball game
00:30:55in which we believe
00:30:57that we should win
00:30:59and we didn't lose,
00:31:01we don't even say
00:31:03that they defeated us,
00:31:05but that we played badly that day.
00:31:07And then in 10 years,
00:31:09those who defeated us
00:31:11say that we played better
00:31:13than we could have
00:31:15for certain reasons.
00:31:17We are always better.
00:31:19You have several trips.
00:31:21Does that give you freedom?
00:31:23No, I only have one trip
00:31:25based on my work.
00:31:27Which one?
00:31:29Austrian.
00:31:31Could you have a trip
00:31:33to Bosnia and Herzegovina?
00:31:35Yes, but I haven't done it yet.
00:31:37I have a double trip.
00:31:39I got that
00:31:41based on a work
00:31:43I did in Austria.
00:31:45It was mostly a work
00:31:47in a militant sense.
00:31:49That country travelled
00:31:51with my text somewhere.
00:31:53I made a theatre project
00:31:55in Salzburg,
00:31:57a work with children
00:31:59that was very unusual
00:32:01and very positive.
00:32:03Sociologists and psychologists
00:32:05were involved.
00:32:07Austria reacted very quickly
00:32:09in that sense.
00:32:11They offered me
00:32:13a statehood
00:32:15that I got in 4-5 years.
00:32:17You travel a lot.
00:32:19Yes, and I am very grateful
00:32:21for such a procedure
00:32:23because they gave me
00:32:25time to do art
00:32:27and devote myself more.
00:32:29I don't have to go for visas,
00:32:31documents, etc.
00:32:33Is it a fact
00:32:35that you don't have
00:32:37a real homeland?
00:32:39Is it a handicap for you?
00:32:43The stereotype is
00:32:45that if you belong
00:32:47to a country,
00:32:49you have to be in that country.
00:32:51If you are physically there
00:32:53and you are always present,
00:32:55it is the only proof
00:32:57that you love the country
00:32:59you came from.
00:33:01I still love the first high school
00:33:03because I went to college.
00:33:05But I still love that building
00:33:07and all the people I met
00:33:09in that world.
00:33:11It is a privilege.
00:33:13Traveling with Andrić
00:33:15is the greatest happiness
00:33:17in my dreams.
00:33:19To meet with experts
00:33:21and tell them how hard
00:33:23I lived before.
00:33:25That is from his talk
00:33:27with Goj and Exponte.
00:33:29What happened to me
00:33:31is a combination
00:33:33of love and chance.
00:33:37My attitude to the world
00:33:39made it happen.
00:33:41I tried to accept it
00:33:43with great love and understanding.
00:33:45Like it is normal
00:33:47that I have to travel.
00:33:49When I was called in 1993
00:33:51to play cabaret in Ljubljana,
00:33:53I traveled a few times.
00:33:55I thought I would play a few shows.
00:33:57I played over 300 shows.
00:33:59I have been playing in Ljubljana
00:34:01for 15 years.
00:34:03I am fascinated by the fact
00:34:05that people come
00:34:07and that I can travel.
00:34:09How do you define yourself
00:34:11in that context?
00:34:13Can you identify yourself
00:34:15with a community?
00:34:17I think I can identify myself
00:34:19with the people
00:34:21that I belong to
00:34:23in a natural way.
00:34:25I am a part of them
00:34:27and all other options
00:34:29in a political
00:34:31and religious sense
00:34:33would remain
00:34:35for an intimate world.
00:34:37I noticed that those
00:34:39who are louder
00:34:41and longer
00:34:43in their religious sign
00:34:45become more aggressive
00:34:47and take a better position
00:34:49in life based on that.
00:34:51I am not interested
00:34:53in that path.
00:34:55I think Ljubljana
00:34:57is a country
00:34:59that has its own
00:35:01great specificity.
00:35:03There is a segment
00:35:05of people,
00:35:07we are talking about Bosniaks,
00:35:09who have neither
00:35:11their East nor their West.
00:35:13They should be a part
00:35:15of something,
00:35:17but they do not belong
00:35:19to the East or the West.
00:35:21They always have their head
00:35:23in the East or the West.
00:35:25They are used to
00:35:27the world they live in
00:35:29and they try
00:35:31to look at it
00:35:33in a way
00:35:35that we call
00:35:37spirituality.
00:35:39Maybe that is
00:35:41the reason
00:35:43why you are
00:35:45able to identify
00:35:47with the world
00:35:49spiritually.
00:35:51When we talk
00:35:53about people I belong to,
00:35:55we look at things
00:35:57in an unusual way.
00:35:59Our unusual way
00:36:01comes from
00:36:03the geographical situation.
00:36:05Do you see yourself
00:36:07as a spiritual person?
00:36:09I see things
00:36:11as serious,
00:36:13stereotypical,
00:36:15provincial or limited
00:36:17from a different angle
00:36:19I can say
00:36:21that you are a spiritual person.
00:36:25I think that my opinion
00:36:27is the same as yours.
00:36:29Do people go to the prison
00:36:31to look at you?
00:36:33Do you ever think about it?
00:36:35Just to laugh?
00:36:37To have a break?
00:36:39Two and a half hours?
00:36:41How much do you lose a kilo?
00:36:43Do you know that?
00:36:45No, I will bring someone
00:36:47to dehydrate me.
00:36:49You are very expressive.
00:36:51What about those people
00:36:53who go to the prison?
00:36:55Do they come to watch Zijek Sokolović
00:36:57just to laugh or
00:36:59do they need something else?
00:37:01I think that
00:37:03people need to laugh.
00:37:05Why don't they need to laugh
00:37:07at work,
00:37:09at elections?
00:37:11They don't know.
00:37:13They forgot.
00:37:15It's our thing.
00:37:17It's a common thing.
00:37:19They lost everything.
00:37:21Capitalism and materialism
00:37:23made them confused.
00:37:25They don't have time.
00:37:27When Lenin comes
00:37:29they will have time.
00:37:31They don't have time for anything.
00:37:33They don't have time for themselves.
00:37:35When we talk about
00:37:37those little things,
00:37:39people laugh.
00:37:41In Bergson,
00:37:43they laugh because
00:37:45they want to destroy
00:37:47the order in which
00:37:49they came from.
00:37:51They destroy their order
00:37:53to become someone else.
00:37:55That's one thing.
00:37:57It's scientific.
00:37:59They choose certain things
00:38:01and accept them.
00:38:03Laugh is
00:38:05a very important communication
00:38:07to establish a dialogue.
00:38:09What I think is essential
00:38:11is that when people
00:38:13know that
00:38:15a certain order
00:38:17is being destroyed,
00:38:19they laugh at
00:38:21the mistakes they made.
00:38:23It's still happening.
00:38:25I don't want to
00:38:27present you as a guru
00:38:29or an intellectual
00:38:31utopian
00:38:33who will explain
00:38:35something inexplicable to people.
00:38:37They come, laugh,
00:38:39there are loans,
00:38:41there is a financial crisis,
00:38:43there is a mafia,
00:38:45there are murders.
00:38:47They could go to
00:38:49Ziaha or someone else
00:38:51for a month.
00:38:53They will laugh.
00:38:55I think that every experience
00:38:57of laughter and destruction
00:38:59is a step forward.
00:39:01Coming to every show,
00:39:03mine or anyone else's,
00:39:05is a feeling of responsibility
00:39:07to the consequences
00:39:09that will happen.
00:39:11They may not be aware
00:39:13of what it means
00:39:15practically.
00:39:17It means nothing.
00:39:19But in a segment
00:39:21of your spiritual world
00:39:23or hedonism,
00:39:25it surely means
00:39:27a step forward.
00:39:29Most often people come
00:39:31to watch a show
00:39:334-5 times.
00:39:35It is an impulse
00:39:37to change something.
00:39:39What do people laugh at
00:39:41the most in this show?
00:39:43When we get to know each other
00:39:45in the show,
00:39:47when people know
00:39:49what they are watching,
00:39:51when it is not the first
00:39:53cabaret impression,
00:39:55when they are not surprised
00:39:57by vulgarity,
00:39:59when they are not used to it.
00:40:01When they enter that world,
00:40:03when they are lost
00:40:05in their own way,
00:40:07when they dance
00:40:09to serious things
00:40:11that they cannot laugh at,
00:40:13but through dancing
00:40:15they give a sign
00:40:17that they understood them.
00:40:19There is a cabaret,
00:40:21at least my cabaret,
00:40:23that I was not aware
00:40:25that I did that.
00:40:27It was a coincidence.
00:40:29I repeat,
00:40:31they are living
00:40:33their own world
00:40:35through me.
00:40:37They laugh at me,
00:40:39I am responsible
00:40:41for their marriage,
00:40:43relationships,
00:40:45and other things.
00:40:47You are trying
00:40:49to destroy the state,
00:40:51the marriage,
00:40:53the institutions,
00:40:55in a way that sounds
00:40:57pathetic,
00:40:59as institutions of power
00:41:01that are innocent.
00:41:03I think that
00:41:05if you enter
00:41:07a segment like the state,
00:41:09we are
00:41:11victims of the state.
00:41:13They promised us
00:41:15that when the state is created
00:41:17everything will be different.
00:41:19We trusted them
00:41:21because it is the easiest way.
00:41:23I will not try anymore,
00:41:25the state will try in my name,
00:41:27we will have a simple life,
00:41:29children will be smarter,
00:41:31women will have better tits,
00:41:33we will have more money,
00:41:35and everything will be better.
00:41:37What would I do
00:41:39when the state can do everything?
00:41:41The state said that everything
00:41:43will be organized,
00:41:45but it will be in the future.
00:41:47And in the future,
00:41:49the corner of the cabaret
00:41:51is a grave,
00:41:53in the most realistic sense.
00:41:55I think that for our time
00:41:57it was a mistake to believe
00:41:59that the state,
00:42:01as an organization of power,
00:42:03will make us better.
00:42:05As we think,
00:42:07when we get married,
00:42:09will we be better in marriage?
00:42:11No.
00:42:13We will be better,
00:42:15regardless of whether we are married or not.
00:42:17We just have to do,
00:42:19in the institution that is already
00:42:21legally limited,
00:42:23get married.
00:42:25How did you learn that?
00:42:27I didn't learn it,
00:42:29I didn't think about it.
00:42:31Because when you get married,
00:42:33and...
00:42:35when the little one calls
00:42:37from the other room
00:42:39and says,
00:42:41do you want a glass of water?
00:42:43And I watch a good game,
00:42:45and then I come to the cabaret
00:42:47and I say,
00:42:49please, idiot,
00:42:51do me a favor.
00:42:53And she says,
00:42:55when you didn't teach me,
00:42:57do me a favor,
00:42:59in the past.
00:43:01And then I say,
00:43:03you wait there,
00:43:05and if he hits you,
00:43:07I'll beat him.
00:43:09And then there is no sex
00:43:11with a woman for 15-20 months,
00:43:13it depends on the phase.
00:43:15So, that relationship
00:43:17is lost in those forms.
00:43:19It's a feeling that
00:43:21the other should do something for him.
00:43:23And people are disappointed,
00:43:25how is all this happening,
00:43:27when they promised us
00:43:29that it won't happen.
00:43:31But I think that politics
00:43:33is a relative thing,
00:43:35there is always a promise,
00:43:37or there is a future.
00:43:39And then when they enter that world,
00:43:41they give birth to children,
00:43:43thinking that she will do something for them.
00:43:45Or they take pets,
00:43:47and their mother didn't give birth to children,
00:43:49they gave birth to children.
00:43:51What did you learn from marriage
00:43:53and your performances?
00:43:55When you talk about illustrations
00:43:57of some situations,
00:43:59did you learn something
00:44:01about your everyday life?
00:44:03I think that the replica
00:44:05I mentioned at the beginning,
00:44:07is related to the state,
00:44:09and also to marriage.
00:44:11And that is,
00:44:13awareness,
00:44:15that I know that I can leave.
00:44:17I don't have to leave,
00:44:19but I know that I can.
00:44:21And that nothing will prevent me,
00:44:23neither the property we have,
00:44:25nor the children,
00:44:27if there is no love,
00:44:29there is no understanding,
00:44:31to simply leave it.
00:44:33As I can leave the state.
00:44:35If I am dissatisfied,
00:44:37when you mentioned
00:44:39Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:44:41I left one state system.
00:44:43I didn't know
00:44:45what all this leads to.
00:44:47I didn't leave this state,
00:44:49which is now,
00:44:51but the one that was before.
00:44:53Because I left it then.
00:44:55When we talk artistically.
00:44:57And no one can accuse me
00:44:59why I didn't stay in it.
00:45:01Because I stayed in my state,
00:45:03which I was in,
00:45:05and then I left,
00:45:07and I wasn't in the space
00:45:09when I made a new one.
00:45:11It's too big.
00:45:13It's like that.
00:45:15A completely new world opens up.
00:45:17You are in a completely erased space.
00:45:19As you say,
00:45:21in an empty room.
00:45:23Does it allow you to deviate
00:45:25if you are absolutely free,
00:45:27to damage everything around you
00:45:29with your absolute freedom?
00:45:31I think that we have already reached
00:45:33a red line with these deviations.
00:45:35We have reached the end,
00:45:37in this way of life.
00:45:39I think that capitalism guarantees
00:45:41at least some other option
00:45:43to get to know life.
00:45:45Or at least, like Don Quixote,
00:45:47to spend a part of your life
00:45:49in this delirium,
00:45:51because it will be more interesting
00:45:53and you will believe,
00:45:55like socialism or communism
00:45:57promised something.
00:45:59It didn't fulfill it,
00:46:01and we are disappointed.
00:46:03Capitalism doesn't promise anything.
00:46:05We can't be disappointed in it.
00:46:07I think that capitalism offers
00:46:09a certain amount of money
00:46:11when we talk about that option.
00:46:13But when we talk about freedom,
00:46:15we mean all kinds of decisions
00:46:17that are not only about marriage
00:46:19and the state,
00:46:21but about everything.
00:46:23I go to exhibitions that I want to see,
00:46:25I make meals that I want to eat,
00:46:27when I go to my family for dinner,
00:46:29I can say that I don't want to eat
00:46:31because I don't eat,
00:46:33and others can say that I don't like it.
00:46:35I don't want anything.
00:46:37That is the kind of freedom
00:46:39that a person should determine.
00:46:41How much do you realize
00:46:43in this life that is not about art?
00:46:45I am certainly the majority owner
00:46:47of my life,
00:46:49like I have been for years.
00:46:51I am the majority owner
00:46:53in the sense of a decision
00:46:55that I can make,
00:46:57and maybe that decision to travel.
00:46:59The most interesting question
00:47:01is whether you are not tired,
00:47:03and whether you are satisfied.
00:47:05This looks really fascinating.
00:47:07And when I travel around the world,
00:47:09like Austria or other countries,
00:47:11and meet hundreds of artists
00:47:13who live the same way as I do,
00:47:15then I realize
00:47:17that maybe I am unique
00:47:19in this area,
00:47:21but not for others.
00:47:23In what things are you conformist?
00:47:27I think that I am conformist
00:47:29in the sense that
00:47:31the things that belong to a certain
00:47:33intimate environment,
00:47:35like religion,
00:47:37or the declarative love
00:47:39of the state,
00:47:41when you put
00:47:43a first plan
00:47:45that behind it
00:47:47is an overall hysteria.
00:47:49I speak from this experience
00:47:51that I have now.
00:47:53That is something that
00:47:55directly affects me.
00:47:57The other kind
00:47:59I don't want to open a new slaughterhouse in the middle of which I am.
00:48:07Let me tell you that we started to talk about something in the European Union,
00:48:13about that materialism, which is not absent, but it is present for a long time.
00:48:20Croatia is, I won't say imperative, but a great desire to enter the European Union.
00:48:26For example, you come from such a dear European Union. What does it bring?
00:48:32A classic question.
00:48:34Look, when we talk about some literature that I have read and played, I think so.
00:48:39Don't, give a practical example.
00:48:40Civilization is inalienable. This is something that is inalienable.
00:48:43Europe must unite to be, as a geographical width or with a number of inhabitants,
00:48:48a panda in some forces, such as Russia, Iran, China.
00:48:53So, it must unite. That is its imperative.
00:48:55The unification itself goes again through man.
00:48:58Man is as it is. It has its falls and rises, which means that it is an inalienability that is outside me.
00:49:04I will be very happy to live in Europe.
00:49:06That is completely normal, regardless of whether I agreed with it or not.
00:49:10But I will organize my life within the European Union, which gives me a certain freedom,
00:49:16personally, like me.
00:49:17I will not allow anyone, neither the president, nor the French, nor his wife,
00:49:21to organize my life to a certain level.
00:49:26I understand, the state is a force, the organization is a force.
00:49:29I will respect these forces, parking, taxes, laws, everything I can.
00:49:32But where I no longer have to be under that force,
00:49:36then I will fight fearfully with my own forces, my personal forces,
00:49:40art or character, to have a certain freedom.
00:49:44Of course, when we talk about Austria,
00:49:50it is somehow more peaceful there,
00:49:52because some economic conditions have long been established there.
00:49:57You have an economic option that cannot be changed so quickly.
00:50:03I cannot get a 50-year loan there because my grandfather was not in Austria
00:50:07and he did not save money for me to buy an apartment for 30-40 years.
00:50:11That is my destiny. I have to get there in another way.
00:50:15That means that you have a certain economic level
00:50:18and then you are aware of the economic power to organize your world.
00:50:22But that is the case everywhere, even here.
00:50:24Not here, here you can get rich in two days.
00:50:27Maybe in two days you come to one side,
00:50:29to take a lot of money and go to the other,
00:50:31to take it here and then be in a conflict of interest.
00:50:35So you plan in order.
00:50:37Yes, there are great opportunities here.
00:50:40When we talk about people who drive cars and wait in line to come to work,
00:50:46those who stand in the tram or bus and drive,
00:50:49and when they see that money is flowing, millions,
00:50:52to go somewhere, they get stress.
00:50:55Why can't I? Where can I invest the money?
00:50:58Then the state appears and says to the citizens,
00:51:01give the money, we will invest it together.
00:51:04The state is an organization of power,
00:51:06but the state is led by people, man.
00:51:11According to that, the state is not a fiction,
00:51:13but a certain man, a certain people, names, surnames.
00:51:16And they are essentially, for my viewing,
00:51:18when I look from the outside, they are servants.
00:51:20They are not people who save my life or change my life.
00:51:24And when we don't want to have idols?
00:51:26That is the consequence of certain delusions that exist.
00:51:30There is also something in the theater,
00:51:32in Beckett, very interesting.
00:51:34When in Beckett, a character would say,
00:51:37we are moving, but we are not moving,
00:51:40like, for example, Clow, who is the same actor I played.
00:51:44Then the audience knows that he is saying something,
00:51:47but he is not going anywhere.
00:51:49And he talks about the absurdity of his wishes and possibilities.
00:51:52So when we talk about the verbs that are used
00:51:55in communication with people who cannot distinguish it,
00:51:59because they are not so close to art,
00:52:01as I see it, we are going somewhere.
00:52:03We are not going anywhere.
00:52:05It is the same as I would say to children,
00:52:07we are going on a one-year vacation next year.
00:52:09Let's get ready now, you be good at school,
00:52:11you don't have to be this, you go to free activities,
00:52:13your wife cooks, washes, works, and so on.
00:52:15And then we go on a one-year vacation.
00:52:17But we will only go on a one-year vacation in a year.
00:52:20We are not going anywhere in those years until the vacation.
00:52:23And when the vacation comes, then I say,
00:52:25you were not good at school, we are not going.
00:52:27When you are good, we will go again in a year.
00:52:29It is like we are fictitiously in our heads,
00:52:31we are constantly moving, but we are not going anywhere.
00:52:34We are constantly reducing sugar by walking,
00:52:37but in fact we are very passive.
00:52:40We do not decide anything, even in that phase of movement.
00:52:43And movement and walking,
00:52:45this is a very symbolic phrase for the art I come from.
00:52:49Do you paint the world in black, or how?
00:52:58You say we walk, but we don't go anywhere.
00:53:01We stand still, the assumption of standing still
00:53:04is that there is no progress.
00:53:06Where to achieve it, in which area,
00:53:08you say this individually, you could act it,
00:53:10you have, so to speak, the oasis in which you ran.
00:53:13We often mention words there.
00:53:16What about those others who don't have it,
00:53:18who live their lives,
00:53:20many state boring, monotonous, but there is no running.
00:53:24They don't do such a nice job, they don't enjoy it.
00:53:27Every interest in the world is the same as my interest.
00:53:30Whatever one is engaged in,
00:53:33and the simplest things that involve some physical work,
00:53:37have some poetics in them.
00:53:40Surely there is that art in every interest
00:53:44that gives space to look at everything differently.
00:53:47From a doctor, from a teacher, from a professor, from a teacher, from everything.
00:53:51But if they lose that individual world,
00:53:54if they lose that emotional intelligence,
00:53:57if they don't transfer one emotion from one state to another,
00:54:01and if they manage to turn themselves and all their interests,
00:54:05I think everyone will find their actor,
00:54:08their theater, or their art.
00:54:11To live their own life.
00:54:13What I would say,
00:54:15Slovenians are, for example,
00:54:17the government is closed,
00:54:19or the Austrians are even worse,
00:54:21or I don't know, the Germans and so on.
00:54:23But there is some kind of a lock,
00:54:26that they don't live in a mass, in a horde, like we do,
00:54:30but they live their own individual life,
00:54:32respecting all other things.
00:54:34Even when we talk about sports,
00:54:36we know that if we play for a long time,
00:54:38our players will lose.
00:54:40As if our players are not used to something,
00:54:43but they are.
00:54:45So, if our players lose,
00:54:47and if it happens regularly, maybe we can beat them.
00:54:49Or we took a goal in the last minute,
00:54:51and we didn't play all 90 minutes.
00:54:53I think that's it.
00:54:55Yes, yes, yes.
00:54:57But when you talk about these sensitive topics,
00:55:00then it's a football.
00:55:02We want to believe that we play a beautiful football,
00:55:05and that we are not fulfilling our daily duties
00:55:08because of that football.
00:55:10The answer is that we don't have the strength,
00:55:12but we play beautifully, we play like Brazilians.
00:55:14It is certain that a beautiful football is played here,
00:55:16but the imperative is not a victory,
00:55:18but a beautiful game.
00:55:20And the importance of victories
00:55:22is actually fulfilling my wrong ambitions,
00:55:24and my defeats that I have experienced
00:55:26in all this life that I have today,
00:55:28that it is the only thing that gives me satisfaction.
00:55:31Do you think that this compensation is bad,
00:55:33that I have victories in other positions?
00:55:35Well, then we don't see the game.
00:55:37We don't enjoy how beautifully they play,
00:55:39but we accuse them of not winning.
00:55:41I need a victory.
00:55:43The state needs a victory.
00:55:45We need common things,
00:55:47because when there are common things,
00:55:49I am a part of that big world,
00:55:51or a part of the European Union.
00:55:53How do you look at old age,
00:55:55in that small world,
00:55:57in that fast world,
00:55:59which we are talking about,
00:56:01where you live quickly,
00:56:03whether you want it or not?
00:56:05It is something inescapable,
00:56:07something that comes by itself,
00:56:09and I am ready
00:56:11for it to come,
00:56:13if I may say so.
00:56:15Because,
00:56:17because it is something
00:56:19that is outside of me,
00:56:21and I don't want to blame anyone.
00:56:23I don't want to mentally get old
00:56:25much earlier than I am physically old.
00:56:27I will fight with my legs and arms.
00:56:29Do you have any discomfort
00:56:31when you think about it?
00:56:33No.
00:56:35No.
00:56:37Because I think that,
00:56:39and Mick Jagger is,
00:56:41for me,
00:56:43Well, we have Mick Jagger,
00:56:45I mean Hugh Hefner.
00:56:47Well, there is an example.
00:56:49He is somehow on my side.
00:56:51When he can, I can.
00:56:53I have to try a little in that segment.
00:56:55Do you notice
00:56:57that people around you
00:56:59are much more nervous
00:57:01than they used to be?
00:57:03I am asking you this
00:57:05because I read in an interview
00:57:07that you said that children
00:57:09can't listen to you
00:57:11when you speak carelessly.
00:57:13There is a bigger society
00:57:15and in that society you will be
00:57:17thrown out very quickly
00:57:19if you don't change 5 topics
00:57:21in 5 minutes.
00:57:23There is no such thing.
00:57:25You can't talk about a topic
00:57:27for a long time.
00:57:29I'm sure that chaos has entered us.
00:57:31First, the chaos of the new system,
00:57:33new civilization, new space.
00:57:35I'm sure that we have that element
00:57:37of capitalism.
00:57:39Let's take our starting position
00:57:41because we don't know
00:57:43what are my personal desires.
00:57:45Where are my personal desires
00:57:47in capitalism or in the new time?
00:57:49Where do I see myself in all this?
00:57:51Is that material level
00:57:53enough for me?
00:57:55No.
00:57:57Is that car enough for me?
00:57:59No.
00:58:01In that stress,
00:58:03if I may say so,
00:58:05a man loses time.
00:58:07Maybe that's why he services the car
00:58:09more than himself,
00:58:11less than the doctor,
00:58:13for the simple reason that the car
00:58:15takes him somewhere.
00:58:17He doesn't take himself anywhere
00:58:19so there is no reason for him
00:58:21to go to the doctor.
00:58:23That's the last question.
00:58:25Do you struggle all your life
00:58:27with your job?
00:58:29Is that struggle important?
00:58:31Is it important to think
00:58:33that I'm struggling?
00:58:35I don't think so.
00:58:37In the past,
00:58:39people used to go to the gym
00:58:41to see what art is.
00:58:43Today, people go to the gym
00:58:45to recognize what they already have
00:58:47in themselves.
00:58:49They are confused.
00:58:51They don't want to expand
00:58:53their mental state
00:58:55because it only expands
00:58:57with leasing and loans.
00:58:59That's the problem.
00:59:01Where is the exit?
00:59:03I'm going to be pretentious.
00:59:05Napoleon said
00:59:07that the world consists
00:59:09of fools and thieves.
00:59:11That's why I'm dressed
00:59:13like a fool in my cabaret.
00:59:15I think that's the most beautiful
00:59:17and greatest side of this world.
00:59:19I have one more gift for you.
00:59:21My great friend Boris Kolich
00:59:23made a ducat for the
00:59:251,500th performance of
00:59:27Actor is Actor is Actor.
00:59:29This is a sign that I played
00:59:31a role in a play.
00:59:33I wanted to give this ducat
00:59:35as a sign that it can
00:59:37change your life
00:59:39and bring you some kind
00:59:41of wealth that you believe in.
00:59:43If I decide to invest it
00:59:45in something I can do,
00:59:47trust me.
00:59:51That's all for today.
00:59:53See you in seven days.
00:59:55Goodbye.
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