Pucks with Haggs podcast host Joe Haggerty and guest Mick Colageo talk about the latest in the Jeremy Swayman negotiations and talk about the horrible Johnny Gaudreau tragedy.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Pucks with Hags is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.
00:07Welcome to another episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast powered by Price Picks, the exclusive
00:11daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:13This is the 119th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:16I'm your host, Joe Hagerty.
00:17You can find my work at joehagerty.substack.com.
00:22Subscribe to a premium membership, get all of my Bruins and NHL writing sent straight
00:25directly to your inbox.
00:27You can also find my work at Boston Sports Journal.
00:30I file three columns a week for them about the Boston Bruins, plenty of great stuff at
00:34Boston Sports Journal, so check out bostonsportsjournal.com.
00:38I believe it's the 119th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:41With me, longtime friend and colleague, Mick Colaggio.
00:44Mick, welcome to the show.
00:46Please tell everybody where they can find your work.
00:47Thanks, Joe.
00:48You can find me at bostonhockeynow.com.
00:51I write a weekly column on the Bruins for them, and I'm in the current issue of the
00:55Hockey News with the Bruins article on their yearbook preseason collection of team surveys.
01:04Awesome.
01:05Everybody check that out at the Hockey News.
01:07Finn actually got a subscription to the Hockey News as a gift for Christmas, so he will be
01:12reading your work, Mick.
01:13I'll point that out to him for sure when it comes in the mail.
01:17Let's thank our sponsors real quick as well.
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02:08Download Game Time today.
02:09What time is it?
02:10Game Time.
02:11All right.
02:13Sad news, Mick, to start this show.
02:17We're not going to dwell on it because there's really not much to be said beyond just an
02:22unthinkable tragedy and sadness about the whole situation, but news came out early this
02:28morning that Johnny Gaudreau and his brother Matthew were both hit and killed, I guess,
02:34by a drunk driver while they were biking in New Jersey the weekend of their sister's wedding.
02:42Both taken in the prime of their lives.
02:44Johnny Gaudreau was a dad, a husband, Matthew Gaudreau, minor league hockey player.
02:50I can't even fathom the levels of tragedy for the Gaudreau family given the whole situation
02:57and just the hockey world in general.
02:59Johnny Hockey was an exciting player, a very likable kid, somebody that was really fun
03:04to watch and somebody that had really made his mark in the NHL.
03:10It's just really sad to hear of passing way too soon of both him and his brother.
03:14Yeah.
03:15I mean, anybody who wasn't rooting for Johnny Hockey to catch fire in Columbus was basically
03:22not rooting for that so they could get him on their own team and have it happen there.
03:26And so, this hurts.
03:30It's so unnecessary.
03:35I don't know if there were priors, but a few years ago, I was a juror in a driving under
03:46the influence case in New Bedford, Mass., and the guy had priors and we weren't allowed
03:53to know that because it would have biased us.
03:56And because the case was presented so poorly by the state, we had to get the guy off.
04:02And so, I was part of a system that keeps putting people like this on the road and
04:11it really pissed me off.
04:13Yeah.
04:14No, I don't blame you because that is completely avoidable and completely senseless when it's
04:22the result of somebody driving under the influence.
04:27That just makes it all the more tragic when you find out just how senseless it all was.
04:33But I think right now, you just think about Johnny Gaudreau's family, Matthew Gaudreau's
04:41family, everybody, their friends and family, everybody that knew them and what was taken
04:46away from them in the prime of his life.
04:49Just really, really sad.
04:51So my thoughts go out to the Gaudreau family right now.
04:55Columbus Blue Jackets fans, friends of the Gaudreau's, the Boston College community,
05:01everybody that he knew there while he was a star player at Boston College.
05:05Johnny Gaudreau was a kid that touched a lot of people's lives and I'm really sorry to
05:11hear about his passing and the way it went down.
05:14So my thoughts and prayers are out to everybody that was touched by Johnny Gaudreau.
05:20So let's move on from the sad news and get back to the Bruins, what we usually talk about, Mick.
05:27And I have a feeling we're going to be talking about today what we've talked about for most
05:33of the episodes this summer, and that will be Jeremy Swayman.
05:42It continues to go on.
05:43Now we're seeing every week somebody is like chiming in.
05:46This week it was Jeremy Swayman.
05:48He was on a podcast.
05:51I think it was called the Mark Lewis is Cool podcast, which I'd never heard of before,
05:55but he was a guest on that.
05:56Mark Lewis.
05:57He is cool.
05:58You got this.
05:59Okay.
06:00I don't know him.
06:01I don't know the podcast, but congrats for getting Swayman on and him getting some pub.
06:05He got a nice bump this week from getting the guests of the moment.
06:12And Swayman was asked his mindset about negotiations right now and sort of where they're at.
06:19And this is what he said.
06:20If you were to ask me that same question a year ago, I would answer it truthfully and
06:24I would say it's scary and it's a lot of resentment towards people that want you to succeed.
06:30And when you're not getting compensated for your endless efforts and what you do best,
06:33it's a nerve wracking feeling because it's your family that you're fighting for.
06:37The answer I'm going to give you this year is that I've educated myself.
06:40I understand the business side of it all.
06:42And it's given me a completely new mindset of understanding the business and how to react
06:46to it.
06:47I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years.
06:49I understand my comparables and I can't ruin the goalie market for other players that are
06:54coming on down the line.
06:55I went to the school business at the University of Maine, so I understand it and love it all.
07:00I'm doing classes at Stanford right now through the NHLPA for business.
07:03I understand that these experiences that I'm having now are going to help me post career
07:06when I want to be a businessman and when I want to talk about serious stuff.
07:10All right.
07:12I find that interesting.
07:14I would have loved if there was a follow up question asking him who exactly he thinks
07:21his comparables are.
07:23I know because that's been your steady Eddie argument here that he doesn't have the comparables
07:29to make these demands.
07:33I saw somebody on Twitter that was saying, I think it was a hockey reporter, was saying
07:41that Saros was one of his comparables, so he should get $8.5 to $9 million a year.
07:47I was like, I don't think you understand what comparables are.
07:50If you think Saros is a comparable, then he's going to get paid $8.5 to $9 million a year.
07:55Saros is getting like $7.7.
07:58The way it works is your comparables are what you get paid like.
08:09Your comparables are not you get paid at $1.5 million more than what your comparable is.
08:14That's not how comparables work either.
08:15Your comparables are I have the same numbers or similar numbers to X, Y, and Z, so I should
08:21get paid like X, Y, and Z, not I should get paid substantially more than X, Y, and Z.
08:26That's not how it works.
08:27Well, do you think that Swayman in his theoretical soliloquy was making an argument that could
08:35be applied to this in the manner of when Saros signed his contract, this was the cap,
08:41this was the situation, we now know the cap is higher this year, it's going up higher
08:45in the future, and therefore, if I was going to make a comparable to UC Saros, National
08:52Predators goalie everyone, that we would have a comparable that is truly equal if I'm asking
09:00for this much more because that's my position in the market.
09:04But Saros' contract is starting this year just like Swayman's would be.
09:08So it's the exact same contract.
09:09So when did he sign it?
09:11The cap going up I think has no relevance because Saros just signed his contract and
09:15it just started.
09:16Like just now he signed it?
09:18It's the same.
09:19What's that?
09:20When did he sign it?
09:21I think it was very recently.
09:22I don't think it was that long ago.
09:24This offseason?
09:25I think it might have been or towards the end of the regular season.
09:27I don't know.
09:28It was in the last six to 12 months.
09:30With the cap in the same future scope that it is right now.
09:33You knew the cap was going up, Mick.
09:34This is not a new revelation.
09:37The cap is going up every year.
09:39That's not something that is really news.
09:42It goes up every year now and the projections have been that it's going to go up.
09:46I just don't see that.
09:48There's no way.
09:50If your contract is starting this year and that contract is starting this year and it
09:53was just recently signed in the last few months, you can't just say, oh, the cap is going up.
09:57I should be getting 1.5 million more.
09:59No, that's not how it works.
10:00No, not through that close in timeline.
10:02That is not how it works.
10:03I don't think it's a weird comparable to me anyway.
10:07No, it is a weird comparable.
10:09The only comparable that you could potentially use is the Islanders goaltender, Sorokin.
10:19Even that one, and he's getting paid over 8 million a year, but he's a little older
10:25than Swayman and he's played well over 50s average, like 56 or 57 games a season over
10:31the last three years.
10:33He's been a Vezina Trophy finalist.
10:35He's I think at a higher level than Swayman.
10:37Yeah, he would have won it if Omar hadn't.
10:39Right.
10:40He's at a higher level than Swayman too, based on his resume and what he's done.
10:44I don't really view him as a comparable too.
10:47If he's a comparable in any way, Swayman's a lesser comparable.
10:50I think Swayman would be one rung down on the ladder from Sorokin if you were looking
10:57at career achievement.
10:58Yeah.
10:59I mean, he's comparable in the sense that I think he's only had three full seasons like
11:03Swayman has, but he's been a much bigger workhorse and put up much better numbers and had a much
11:11bigger workload and been viewed as better by his peers or by the GMs in the NHL to vote
11:18on the Vezina than Swayman has.
11:20I don't really view that as an apples to apples comparable either.
11:25I still think, and Jeremy Swayman can disagree with me all day long and that's fine, but
11:32I still think he's in the seven to eight range and he's under all these other goalies that
11:35have done so much more to this point in their career than he has.
11:39Okay, so you've been pretty consistent before these negotiations that Swayman is the Bruins
11:48future.
11:49Swayman is the number one.
11:50He's a comparable goalie.
11:51He's the one that we can trust in the playoffs.
11:53He's the one we need to go forward with here in Boston.
11:56Then you would get to negotiations and now you've been very consistent about where he
12:01fits in salary wise.
12:03Now let's just say, okay, let's accept part A, let's accept part B, and let's go to part
12:07C and say, what do you, Joe Hagerty, think that Swayman's appropriate strategy should
12:14be for a long-term contract or should he hold out for a short-term contract as a bridge
12:19because he doesn't believe that he should settle for this?
12:23Since you and he don't see eye to eye on this and you're putting yourself in Don Sweeney's
12:27chair right now, would you consider a short-term deal with him knowing that Wood is only a
12:34year away from UFA?
12:37Yeah.
12:38No, and I don't think they should go short-term either because I don't think that's going
12:43to work out well for them.
12:44That's what makes this very difficult.
12:46That's what this is about.
12:48That's what makes this problematic for both sides is that this is not an easy target.
12:56It would have been much easier if Don Sweeney had really swept the leg during arbitration,
13:03had really gone for the throat and had asked for a two-year decision instead of a one-year
13:07decision and then he would be under the lower number through arbitration this coming year
13:12too as he was the starter and he would go out and perform and then you'd feel a lot
13:18better about if he has a great year, he plays 60 games, he's a Vezina Trophy finalist, then
13:23you'd be like, here's the money, take it.
13:26You've earned eight point something.
13:28You're up in a much higher stratosphere as far as goalies go and we feel good about giving
13:33this to you.
13:34I just feel like it's a bit of a risk giving him an eight-year $64 million contract sight
13:42unseen somewhat on a goalie that hasn't played more than 44 games.
13:47Even though I believe he's going to be able to play 60 no problem, I believe he's going
13:51to be a number one guy.
13:52I've felt like the first time I saw him in a training camp that he was a franchise guy
13:57and that he was going to be a star goaltender.
13:58So on one level, I think I'd be okay if the Bruins did that because I believe in him and
14:06I think he's going to live up to it.
14:08But speaking from a GM's perspective and speaking from a team that's going to shell out that
14:13kind of dollars perspective, I'd have a hard time sending out that kind of contract when
14:19I hadn't seen it yet.
14:20I feel like this is the new NHL, though.
14:22I feel like there's been group RFAs all over the league, including many without arbitration
14:27rights who have gotten career contracts ahead of their time in this era.
14:32It's like a new-
14:33Not goalies, though.
14:34What's that?
14:35Not goalies.
14:36Goalies have not really been given those kind of contracts.
14:38Why not?
14:40These people, these people go around sloganing up that the goalie is the most important position
14:45in the league.
14:46I know.
14:48You know, you and I both know they're not viewed that way, though.
14:50You know, they're not viewed with-
14:51No, it's coaches and goalies is a million of them.
14:54It's a matter of getting the right one for your team.
14:56Right.
14:58One thing I will say, the report from WEI this past week that he's looking for $10 million
15:04a year, I don't buy that.
15:06I don't think that's-
15:08I don't find it unbelievable.
15:11I feel like if the Bruins are starting at $6 million, why shouldn't he start at $10 million
15:15if he wants to wind up at $8 million?
15:17Because he has no business asking to be paid like Andrei Veselevsky.
15:20I don't think they have any business.
15:23I think these days there is no business.
15:27That is so outlandish that he would think or that his camp would think he should be
15:32paid like Andrei Veselevsky.
15:34Like, no.
15:36That's not- that is not even in the realm of like being realistic in any way, shape
15:41or form.
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17:09And the other thing I will say about Swayman's comment is that, you know, when he starts
17:16talking about fighting to feed his family, when it's the difference between making $7
17:24million a year and making $8 point something million a year, like that is not going to
17:29ring true with family.
17:30He means his great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren.
17:33I know.
17:34The bottom line is Jeremy Swayman has earned the big money he's going to get, right?
17:39Like his hard work, his toil, his desire to be elite, like his willingness to stay around
17:44Boston and Warrior in the summertime and work out and continue to get better and better.
17:48And like his mental strength to sort of like power through being in a tandem with a guy
17:54that won a Vesna trophy and still end up winning the job this past year.
17:59Like there's a lot going on there that's great.
18:01And there's a lot of things he deserves credit for that he's done to build himself up to
18:06this point.
18:06So like he deserves to get paid and he's going to get paid.
18:10And that's why I think he has some peace of mind, too, is because he knows he's going
18:12to get paid regardless.
18:14Like he knows the big money is coming regardless of how this shakes out.
18:19It's just a matter of like if it's like clean or if it's kind of like an ugly process to
18:25get there and like how the road that they take to get there, like that's really where
18:30what it comes down to.
18:31But like he's going to get paid either way.
18:33But I would caution him, like if you start talking about like the very strong union speak
18:39about like feeding your family and like, you know, all that stuff, like you're going to
18:43start turning off a lot of hockey fans that like struggle day to day to put food on the
18:47table.
18:50People who are getting turned the screw turned on them by the enemy shield, making them buy
18:55additional games after they've already loyally put up their cable or streaming money for
19:00Nessun 360 or however they get the games.
19:04And then after all that, no, we're not putting this Tuesday night game against the Buffalo
19:08Sabres on TV for you.
19:10What you already paid us for.
19:12No, we're going to put that one on ESPN plus and Hulu and you have to give us an extra
19:16eleven and a half bucks or whatever it is.
19:18And, you know, I mean, it's and then we're going to make a big whoop about about all
19:26these platforms.
19:26And so people in all corners of the earth will see the NHL that never had it before.
19:31No, it's just we're going to just get another dime out of your pocket, another dollar out
19:36of your pocket.
19:37We're just reaching even deeper when we know you already are just trying to somehow hack
19:42the inflation of this world that we're all in.
19:44And it's it's just it's greed.
19:47It's it's it's capitalism run amok.
19:51And and it's really holding the fans in contempt because we got you where we want you.
19:55And I know I'm kind of going off on a tangent here.
19:57No, it's true, though.
19:59That's the backdrop of it.
20:00But it annoys the crap out of me.
20:02Yeah, no, I think the fans have a choice.
20:04The fans make all this possible.
20:06They're the ones they're the benefactors.
20:08If all of a sudden people said, I'm done with the NHL.
20:11I'm just going to go watch college hockey.
20:13I'm going to go watch signal.
20:14And they completely stop.
20:16The faucet shuts off and the revenue stops.
20:21And and and they you know, so somewhere along the way, they have to worry about the needle
20:28that breaks the camel's back.
20:32Yeah, the straw that breaks the camel's back.
20:34I agree.
20:34I think they do.
20:35You know, the haystack, the haystack has straw.
20:37I think I made a connection there somewhere.
20:39I knew I knew I was picking up what you were putting down.
20:42I was there.
20:43I I think you're right.
20:45I think they do have to worry to a degree.
20:47But like, is it realistic to think that people are going to drop the NHL and just start watching
20:51college hockey because they're turned off about like having a well, we've already proven
20:56having to get ESPN plus to watch a Bruins game like two or three or four times a year?
21:01Like, I don't think so.
21:02Already proven since TV 38 started carrying the Bruins in the late 60s.
21:06Well, you know, the 68 69 season when games started, they were like, you know,
21:11we're going to keep doing this.
21:12These fans are crazy for this stuff ever since then.
21:15And ever since Nesson was a paid channel in 84, 85, the simultaneous with the beginning
21:20of Hockey East.
21:22This has been the game and the games evolve.
21:24The business evolves, the techniques and everything is it keeps on changing.
21:28However, one thing that never changes is they can count on the people who want the product
21:33to put up whatever it takes to get it.
21:35And they keep on doing this.
21:36And they'd say, yeah, there's going to be a few people who drop off, but we will win
21:40the war.
21:41But let's call it out.
21:42Let's call it what it is.
21:43They're holding the fans in contempt and saying, no, you won't.
21:46No, you won't.
21:48Yeah, but I mean, I'm sure there was grumbling when games went to Nesson.
21:51Like, I was young when that happened.
21:53So I don't really remember that.
21:55Sure.
21:58But I know I'm sure when the Red Sox and the Bruins went to Nesson from channel 38,
22:02where they had been on like for a long time, it was only home games too.
22:06When it started, 38 still had the Bruins road games.
22:09Yep.
22:10So I'm sure they were pissed when that started.
22:13And, you know, you're taking it to the fans, you're screwing the fans, you're stealing
22:18from their pocketbooks, whatever.
22:19Whatever fans said back then, like, you know, as the world turns and as more and more things
22:26are looking, you know, to get a little like revenue stream going, I think there's just
22:31going to be more of that, not less.
22:32And the Celtics, I think, simultaneously went to rival Sports Channel.
22:36Yep.
22:36It's kind of like that.
22:37Yep.
22:37It's like the cable version of 38 and 56.
22:40They used to be on Channel 56 with Gil Santos and Bob Creezy.
22:44I remember that very well.
22:45I used to watch those games all the time.
22:47Yep.
22:48But like, bottom line, getting back to what we're talking about, like, if I were advising
22:52Jeremy Swayman, I would try to steer him away from the putting food on your table when you're
22:56talking about that kind of money.
22:58Like, he has earned that money.
23:00There is no question about it.
23:01He should feel good about it.
23:03Like, he should feel good that he's going to get paid at that level.
23:06He should have peace of mind knowing that that money is coming, that security for him
23:10and his family and for generations to come is coming.
23:12Like, that's a great thing.
23:15And he should feel good about it.
23:16But to put it in terms of like putting food on the table, like, that's not going to ring
23:21true with a lot of Bruins fans that are scraping by.
23:24Like Jimmy Connors, the aging Jimmy Connors at the US Open back in the early 90s, yelling
23:30at the chair, I think it was Frank Hammond, you know, you're stealing dinner from my daughter.
23:35He's arguing a line call.
23:39Come on, cut the crap.
23:41Yeah.
23:41But that is like, I can see that being like a really competitive thing, too, though, like
23:46saying that, like, he probably has to get himself in that mindset.
23:48Like, somebody's taking something from him.
23:50Oh, absolutely.
23:51He had to play.
23:51He had to have a fight in order to.
23:53There had to be a fight.
23:55Some of them, and I'm sure to a degree, that's what Jeremy Swayman is believing.
24:00Like, in these negotiations, they're kind of a fight to be like Roberto Duran.
24:04He had to be able to hate to play it.
24:05I had to hate the opponent to beat him.
24:07Yeah, I'm sure that has part to do with the mindset.
24:09But if you know, I just would be mindful of that because I got people when I posted that
24:14quote, like there were a bunch of people on Twitter that responded back like that.
24:18Like, I'm a Swayman fan, but like, I didn't like that.
24:20And, you know, I could sort of understand why if you're struggling, you don't want to
24:25hear that from professional athletes.
24:27Yeah, it's a minor misstep, but it's a misstep.
24:30No, but it's understandable.
24:32Like, you know, as much as he wants to say, like, it's a business thing for him now.
24:36There's emotion there.
24:37You can hear it in his voice when he's talking about this stuff, that there's an emotional
24:41component to it for him and that he feels like he's in the right and that the Bruins
24:47are trying to, like, not give him what's due.
24:50And that's where, like, I think it's also a sticky negotiation because you want the
24:57Bruins to feel like it was a fair negotiation when it's over and they didn't, like, blow
25:02up, like, the goalie market for years to come by giving too much to somebody that hadn't
25:08quite gotten there yet.
25:10But you also want Jeremy Swayman to feel like he was treated fairly.
25:13He got his just money and that he was compensated fairly and that he's not going to be left
25:21with hard feelings because, like, what you don't want and what you can't have is, like,
25:27him, I think, feeling like he felt last year after the arbitration process where, like,
25:34several times over the course of the season, he was negative about it and sort of voiced
25:38his opinions about it and, you know, really felt it was an unpleasant process and was
25:44left kind of with some hard, bitter feelings as a result of it.
25:48You know, I really don't think you want that from him when this contract is finally done
25:53one way or the other.
25:54And I will say right now, I don't believe this is going to end with him getting traded.
25:58So being pissed at management helped Tim Thomas in 2010-11.
26:03He takes all the brewing stuff off his mask, goes out, wins the Vesna and the Consmite.
26:09Yeah, the hip surgery he had before that season helped, too.
26:12That was a big part of that, too.
26:14That's huge, yeah.
26:15Yeah, that was a weird one.
26:16We do his exit interview after that season ends and then we get the email from the Bruins,
26:24like, the next day that he had hip surgery.
26:26It's like, oh, what?
26:27Nobody asked him about it.
26:29Yeah, but he was, Tim Thomas is such a unique character, you know.
26:35Oh, he's in the sports world, by the way.
26:38Is he?
26:38I think, come on up.
26:40I'll tell you what, you go ahead and talk and I'll look it up.
26:44He's a, Thomas is a unique character.
26:50Swayman is, like, Tim Thomas is your typical goalie, like, very goalie type personality,
26:56behavior, like, all that stuff.
26:58And the odds he had to overcome in order to get there, like, he's a very unique case where I
27:03think he does, because he, throughout his career, performed very well in me versus the world
27:10situations, like, in order for him to get in the NHL, he had to kind of have that defiant.
27:14Oh, you're absolutely right.
27:16Attitude.
27:16You know what I mean?
27:17He had to fight for everything.
27:18But it became a double-edged sword as far as him being a good teammate, because he still
27:22had that attitude when he made it.
27:24And I think it rubbed some people the wrong way, because it was sort of, like, very self-centered
27:29me against the world attitude when it was less about the team and more about him,
27:34from his perspective.
27:36Like, Swayman's not like that.
27:37Swayman's a different kind of guy, I feel like, personality-wise, and a little more
27:41normal, I think, than your run-of-the-mill goalies as far as his personality goes and
27:46who he is.
27:48So I don't know.
27:50Maybe it will be, because, look, he had a great year last year.
27:52He was an All-Star for the first time, and it was after the arbitration process.
27:56So maybe he will be able to perform under those.
28:01I don't see it holding him back at all, because I think he's so committed to his process.
28:05And I think that that foundation was set in place, just like you said about Timmy, about
28:11Saturday, October 5th, by the way, he'll be at Sports World signing autographs for a prize.
28:17So, yeah, I think Swayman, likewise, will also be kind of like Steady Eddie going forward,
28:26doing what he does.
28:28And one of the things Razor brought up when we spoke to him at FanFest in Plymouth last
28:33Sunday was that one of the things Swayman's going to go through as a starter and a number
28:40one goalie on a team is that you're going to go through bad weeks.
28:44And he said he's going to have to learn this part where being in a groove and being great
28:50and having a streak, that's not really what tells you that you're a top goalie in the
28:54league.
28:55It's your ability to get over the bad week that you're going to get.
28:58You play that much, you're going to have a bad week.
29:00That's when you pick yourself up and pick up your team after that.
29:03That's when you're going to really prove your mental.
29:06And he's not saying he doesn't have the right stuff.
29:08He totally believes in him and thinks that he's that guy.
29:12But he says this is the thing that's going to happen this year under the new circumstances.
29:17Yeah, and that's to the point of like when you haven't played 60 plus games and when
29:23you haven't had the number one responsibility, number one goalie responsibility on your shoulders
29:28until you've had it, you can't prove that you can do it.
29:30And it's because of things like that, that you're going to have to pull yourself out
29:36of those situations.
29:37Because guess what?
29:38If you have a tough week as a goalie, the team isn't going to have a tough week.
29:42Like those go hand in hand.
29:44If Jeremy Swayman is struggling, the Bruins are going to be struggling too.
29:47That's true.
29:47And he's going to feel that pressure of all of that on his shoulders.
29:51And it's not going to be able to like, all right, Swayman had a couple of games.
29:54We can go to Allmark here.
29:55Like, I don't think you're going to see that kind of relief, you know, with Corpus Allo.
30:00It's going to be a starring slump that may not affect the trajectory of the club.
30:03We're all looking at you, Jeremy Swayman.
30:05You're the guy, like you need to pull us out of this.
30:08And like, that's a different kind of pressure.
30:09Yeah, it sure is.
30:10And he wants, he's been savoring it and now he's going to get it.
30:14So, yep, definitely.
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31:37Um, but to your point, and we talked about this a little bit before, you think he would
31:42be within his rights to ask for $10 million, or you think that's realistic?
31:46No, I think it's literally within his rights, and we can't disagree on that.
31:51But what I am saying is...
31:52Why do you think?
31:54Well, because, no, because it is.
31:56By the CBA, he can do what the hell he wants.
31:59Well, yeah.
32:00So that's what I'm talking, but what I'm saying now is the difference between now and say
32:0410 years ago is the gloves are off.
32:06Everybody's doing everything differently now.
32:09The same way guys get career contracts before they even have arbitration rights in their
32:15RFAs, restricted free agency.
32:18I just feel like with the whole technique of negotiating and the way management is done
32:23with the cap, all of these things have all been tweaked forward another decade.
32:29The salary cap era is almost 20 years old.
32:32So it's still the same rules to the cap from pretty much then as they were when they brought
32:40it in in 05, 06 season.
32:43And it's more than twice as much as it was.
32:45I think the floor is higher now than what the cap was then, 39.5.
32:50But there is definitely a change of how people do what they do.
32:56And nowadays, even look at offer sheets.
32:59Nobody's bad mouthing offer sheets anymore.
33:01That used to be anathema.
33:03Now it's like, oh, yeah, this is a tool of the CBA and people should use it, you know.
33:10It's unbelievable that things have come around the way they have, that these teams seem to
33:16have made this mysterious evolution of their negotiating techniques of saying, OK, how
33:25are we going to keep this player?
33:27It used to be you hold him down as hard as you can, as far as you can until you have
33:30to give it to him.
33:31Then you give it to him.
33:32Now it's identify the young player, say he's going to be a pillar on our team, and then
33:39pay him like that player.
33:41And that's the most general difference I can see.
33:44And because of that, and because of the convoluted way that comparables can be made, it's
33:50such an inexact science.
33:52To me, I don't see why he wouldn't start here if he wanted to wind up there or thought
33:58he should wind up there.
33:59Yeah, I just think, yeah, if not saying to believe it, I'm just saying I wouldn't count
34:06it out.
34:06I wouldn't discount it.
34:08I don't think he's asking for that because I that is like.
34:15If you're starting there, like if I were the Bruins, I'd be like, I don't even respond
34:21to that.
34:21Well, that's what's happened.
34:24I mean, so from a factual standpoint, you your theory has come true.
34:28If that if that's what happened.
34:31Yeah, I got to think there's there's some back and forth between the two.
34:35But like, that's not even good faith negotiations.
34:40Like, this is my problem.
34:43If you're going to both decline arbitration, that is like a tacit admission of like, we're
34:49going to be in good faith negotiations.
34:51We're going to do this the right way.
34:52We're going to like, you know, if you do that and then you ask for 10 million, like that
34:57is not even close to good.
34:59But now you're jumping from that to what your opinion of good faith negotiations is.
35:03Yeah, and this is what the opinion, I think, between yours and his that are different.
35:08Yeah, you you can't ask.
35:13Like, if you're asking for the same money that every single one of those goalies got
35:17after they won a Vesna trophy, and you're asking for that now, like no way like that
35:23is that is totally unrealistic, totally pie in the sky, like completely like we're going
35:30to ask for everything.
35:32And like and if I guess if that's your negotiating strategy is to ask for everything you could
35:37possibly want that you you're not even close to being in the neighborhood of asking.
35:42You shall pay me a 50 percent stake of ownership.
35:45Yeah, it's starting from there.
35:47It's like, OK, she'll take the hotel to the right of the TD Garden.
35:51I just would hope that they and expect that.
35:54I don't think that that's we're asking for.
35:55I think that's what they probably want to land is somewhere in the eights, I would think.
36:01And maybe Sorokin is the guy they look at as the comparable.
36:05I just don't see it that way.
36:07Like, I think he hasn't done enough to be comparable to Sorokin, even though like I
36:13think the same percentages are probably similar.
36:16But like Sorokin has had a season where he played over 60 games.
36:19He's averaged 57 games a year for the last three years.
36:23Like is Swain was not even close to that, you know, and through no fault of his own
36:28because he was splitting time with Lee and Selmark.
36:29But I don't know.
36:33I just feel like and I know that in the back end, they're buying out free agent years.
36:37So that's going to inflate the number a little bit.
36:38So push comes to shove.
36:40You probably give them the eight because you're buying out so many free agent years.
36:46And, you know, there's a little inflation there, whatever.
36:48Like, I think the Bruins could justify that.
36:51I thought from day one, this was going to wind up around eight times eight.
36:55Yeah.
36:55And if it gets there and that's the final number I like and they avoid a ton of headaches
37:00and it gets them in training camp and it gets the world spinning the right way for the Bruins.
37:05I suppose that that's like, you know, that's that's a fair resolution.
37:09That's something they can feel good about, you know, because you're you're basically
37:14you're putting you're betting your future on him and betting you're putting your money
37:18on him that he's going to be a great goalie for, you know, the next eight years.
37:21But I still even think that if like put it this way, if I were the GM and you look at
37:29it, I'm sure you look at it as a competition.
37:30If you're the front office, you want to win it to some degree.
37:32You want the player to be happy, but you also want to win it or, you know, you want
37:36to do what's right for the league, for your team, for all that.
37:39That's the hardest part about NHL management that I don't know how these guys sleep at
37:43night because it just blows me away that they that they are trying to serve these two masters
37:50here in this double situation.
37:52You're in a series of double binds all the time.
37:56And these are the biggest ones.
37:59Yep, it's true.
38:01And that's as we've said many times, Mick, that's what makes it not such an easy negotiation.
38:06That's why that's why we're at the impasse that we're at for right now.
38:09It's supposed to be a happy partnership now that the NHL has proven to the players union
38:14that, hey, with a salary cap and your 24 percent salary rollback, let's just partner together,
38:22grow the game, do this and let's see what happens.
38:24And it's bigger and wilder than I would have ever imagined.
38:30And then our interview with Nevin Marquardt, former Bruin, former first round draft pick
38:34from 83, who played for them throughout that decade and into the early 90s,
38:41spunky little winger could score some goals, but plagued by shoulder injuries.
38:46And Nevin was always known to be a computer guy before the world was a computer guy.
38:51And and one of the things he said to us last year during our many opportunities to interview
38:56alumni in keeping with the centennial season was that the NHL revenue is about to go nuts.
39:03Things like things that were kind of like things on that could put you on the bench,
39:09virtually on the bench so that you could watch the game from there, watch it like a GoPro from
39:14any player's perspective. There's like things he says that are unbelievable that are going to
39:18happen. And this is all going to go into the to the gross. And and and that this is going to drive
39:24up the cap like like crazy. And so the amount of money that's going to come into this equation,
39:30he says, we don't even have any idea of it yet, but it's right around the corner.
39:34Yeah, I mean, that's true to some degree, but I also they don't the NHL doesn't do gangbuster
39:41ratings on ESPN. So like you also wonder like what the TV contract is going to look like,
39:49you know, the next one that they sign. I don't know. Like, I think it's still a valuable property,
39:56but it's never really been the ratings bonanza that like for national networks when they do those TV
40:03deals. I don't know that they ever get the networks ever get the exact like bang for the
40:10buck they're expecting when they pay for these TV contracts, the big national ones. So like I don't
40:16know. And that's a huge factor in revenue and how much money they're making. And I don't know how
40:21much that's going to improve or grow. So there's like different areas where they're going to like
40:26revenue streams are going to happen in different places. They're going to make money. And there's
40:28other places where I'm not sure it's going to be the same. You would expect it's going to continue
40:32to go up. But yeah, I mean, it's my pay grade to think about these things. But I was amazed by how
40:39surefire he acted that this is coming. Yeah, he's involved in this kind of stuff today,
40:46this sort of, you know, cutting edge technical stuff. He really kind of went crazy with this
40:52stuff in his life. And yeah, but there's also a question, though, of how many people are going to
40:56like pay money for that. You know what I mean? Like, I know, because it'll all get passed on
41:00to the consumer. That is we've figured that out, haven't we? Yes. But yeah, in either way,
41:08it'll be interesting to see how that plays out long term as far as the health and well-being
41:12of the league, which I would assume is just going to go up and up as Swainman referenced in his
41:16comments. Let's also thank our sponsors who have been, you know, going up and up for us at every
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42:17is it? Game time. All right, Mick, thank you very much for joining us this week, my friend.
42:23My pleasure, Joe.
42:25You got it, and I'm sure we'll be talking about Jeremy Swainman again the next time we're on a
42:29podcast together. It'll be loads of fun, I'm sure. Thank you, everybody out there for listening.
42:34We'll see you at the rink.
42:59you