• 3 months ago
In this episode we take a look at some Finnish tanks like the T-26E, BT-42 and Vickers 6 ton, tanks that which I think should be a part of an international tank tech tree in War Thunder!

Finland has now been introduced to War Thunder in the new Fire and Ice update as a subtree in the Swedish Tank Tech Tree!

Tanks in this episode:
Introduction: 00:00
Vickers 6 ton light tank: 05:13
T-26E: 11:21
BT-42: 16:12
Events: 21:42
Conclusion: 23:38

International Tank Tech Tree series
Argentinian Tanks: https://youtu.be/Z6p0kXANlrI
Austrian Tanks: https://youtu.be/cha99aucLPY
Australian Tanks: https://youtu.be/Z-P0xkdHQZQ
Belgian Tanks: https://youtu.be/IPUmZ1TFaIs
Canadian Tanks: https://youtu.be/dlkyfIcukqs
Czechoslovakian Tanks: https://youtu.be/OgGtRi07OIM
Egyptian Tanks: https://youtu.be/TXeQki7i854
Finnish Tanks: https://youtu.be/1SzQl9kRQiE

Information sources:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/TANKS2.htm
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/TANK_GUNS.htm#37PsvK36
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/ASSAULT_GUNS.htm#BT-42
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/bofors37mm.html

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Game: War Thunder ⬅️

#warthunder #finland #tanks #international #techtree #toreno
Transcript
00:00Hello everybody, Toretto here, and welcome back to another episode of my proposed International Tank Tech Tree series.
00:06Now today we are looking at Finland.
00:09And again, like with Egypt, there's only three vehicles, so this will be a shorter-than-average episode.
00:15But I will try and go into some detail about the vehicles featured on the tech tree that came from Finland or used by Finland.
00:22Now before we get onto Finnish tanks, I just want to look at the history of Finland during the time of War Thunder.
00:27It was actually part of the Russian Empire until 1917.
00:31The October Revolution had happened, Russia was going through a revolution, and so the Finns decided to declare independence at the end of 1917.
00:41But in 1918, a civil war broke out between the White Finns and the Red Finns.
00:46I'm not a huge expert on the various political factions of Finland during this time, but the Whites were generally more conservative.
00:55They tended to be on the right of the political spectrum, and the Reds wanted something similar to what Lenin was doing, socialism.
01:04They tended to be on the left of the political spectrum.
01:07But the Whites won the civil war, partly because they got quite a lot of help from the Germans.
01:13Remember, the Germans were actually doing quite well in World War I at this point, at least on the Eastern Front.
01:19So the Russians were basically exhausted, they went to sign a peace treaty.
01:24They didn't like the term, so they just declared unilaterally, we're not going to fight any more of the wars over.
01:29Obviously, Germany, predictably, occupied a ridiculous amount of Russia at this point.
01:34Which basically ended up with Russia giving a huge amount of territory to the Germans.
01:39So the Germans were in a strong position to help the White Finns, and eventually they won.
01:44Now, things were pretty calm until 1939, when the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed between the Soviets and the Germans.
01:52Basically, it assigned spheres of influence to the two nations, and Finland was assigned to the Soviets' sphere of influence.
01:59The Soviets tried to acquire some territory off the Finns by negotiation.
02:03The Finns said no, so the Soviet Union shelled one of their own villages, Mainila, and then basically blamed it on Finland and invaded, thus starting the Winter War.
02:12Finland was expected not to do brilliantly well, because it was a small, isolated country.
02:17But they actually did quite well militarily.
02:20They did eventually lose the war and had to give up 10% of their country.
02:24But the Soviets lost over 100,000 men, the Finns lost 20,000, I think.
02:30It wasn't an easy victory, as had been expected, because the Soviets had purged all their experienced officers.
02:37Plus there may have been some underestimation of the Finns, and maybe not particularly great equipment.
02:42So Finland, you know, did well militarily.
02:45They sort of became allied, or maybe not allied, but more friendly towards the Germans after this point, because there wasn't really anyone else they could turn to.
02:54The only other people they could turn to were the British and French.
02:56Well, the French were gone by this point.
02:58They had sort of planned to send some equipment to the Finns, and possibly even bomb some oil refineries in the Caucasus during the Winter War.
03:05But obviously the military situation of World War II had prevented that.
03:10But Finland actually joined in the Continuation War, which was basically what they called the invasion of Russia, or Soviet Union, during Operation Barbarossa.
03:19Now, the Germans probably expected the Finns to help quite a lot, but the Finns really just sort of recaptured their territory they had lost.
03:26Which, to be fair, the Soviets had taken from them illegally.
03:29But obviously the Western Allies couldn't support them now, because they were allied with the Soviet Union, so they declared war on Finland as well.
03:37Finland may have taken a bit of extra territory, but they didn't join in that vigorously.
03:42They didn't join in the Siege of Leningrad, which must have annoyed the Germans quite a bit.
03:46And by 1944 the Soviets were pushing them back, even with the German assistance.
03:51Now, in 1944 the Finns started to seek a separate peace treaty with the Soviets.
03:57They had promised the Germans they wouldn't do this, but the President had done it as a sort of personal promise.
04:02So he resigned, and they sought a separate peace.
04:05And the Soviets basically agreed.
04:08The Finns had to give up the territory they'd lost in the Winter War, and a bit more territory.
04:14They had to pay a ridiculous amount of reparations, they had to demobilize the army.
04:18But they also had to evict the Germans in something like 14 days, which is hard to do while you're demobilizing.
04:25It lasted seven months, but it was relatively low cost.
04:29I mean, like, lives. Destruction was quite high.
04:32But something like 2,000 people were killed, which for a seven-month conflict isn't that bad.
04:37After the war, Finland didn't join the Warsaw Pact or the NATO forces.
04:41It basically adopted a position of neutrality.
04:44But it wouldn't criticize the Soviets, because obviously they were their neighbor, and they were quite vulnerable.
04:50The Soviets could pressure them quite easily.
04:53But all in all, compared to other nations such as the Baltics, which were annexed by the Soviet Union for 50 years.
04:59So Finland came out pretty well. It took on the Soviets and the Germans.
05:02And while it lost 10% of its territory, or possibly more, it did ultimately keep its independence.
05:08But anyway, that's the history of Finland. Now to move on to the tanks of Finland.
05:13Now the first Finnish tanks we're going to be looking at are the Finnish variants of the Ficus 6-ton light tank.
05:19Now the Ficus 6-ton tank, as the name suggests, was developed by Ficus as a private project.
05:25But when they went to offer it for sale to the British Army, they didn't want it, or they couldn't afford it.
05:30So they started sending it to other countries.
05:32Some of you may actually recognize the tank, because some of them were sold to Russia, or the Soviet Union.
05:38And they then improved the design a little bit and put it into production as the T-26 that we already have in-game.
05:45One of the other countries the tank was sold to was, obviously, Finland.
05:49And they bought something like 30 or so of the tanks, 32 or 33, something around that number.
05:54But they had some weird requirements. Well, it seems weird at first.
05:57Basically they didn't want any of the guns, or the optics, or radio equipment.
06:02Which seems a bit odd, but it actually kind of makes a bit of sense.
06:05Basically they wanted to equip it with their own guns and radio equipment.
06:09You know, they were self-sufficient. They didn't want to be ordering radios from Britain or somewhere
06:14when they're at war with someone else.
06:16Because obviously it wouldn't get there in time, the equipment could be sunk.
06:20If they're using Finnish equipment, then they should theoretically be self-sufficient
06:24and able to do replacements a lot easier.
06:27However, in practice it didn't work out as well as it was meant to,
06:31because the guns weren't really put into production until 1939.
06:35Early 1939, and a few months later, or in late 1939, the Winter War started
06:41and none of the tanks had their guns equipped.
06:43Some of the guns were eventually produced and fitted to the Finnish tanks,
06:47but obviously the delay must have caused quite a few problems for the defence of Finland during this time.
06:53The gun used on the Finnish tanks was a 37mm Bofors gun,
06:58and it was meant to be quite a popular gun.
07:00As far as I'm aware it was used by quite a few different nations.
07:03Sweden, Finland, I think Britain and Germany both used it during the Desert War.
07:08Apparently Finland kept some of the anti-tank versions around until the 80s,
07:11so you know, quite a popular gun.
07:13But there doesn't seem to be too much about penetration stats on it.
07:17The few places I did find some stats for the gun seemed to give some contradictory information.
07:23One of the sites I found did list the stats for the British Army Bofors 37mm
07:29and said at something like 30 degrees at 1000 metres it could penetrate about 40mm of armour,
07:35which would put the gun at about the same power as the Panzer IIIe and the M2 on the American tech tree.
07:42I also did find some stats on a website that deals with Finnish weapons,
07:47and it gave some not very believable stats, or perhaps I'm reading it wrong,
07:52it said at something like 70 degree angle it could penetrate 55mm at 100 metres,
07:57or about 44mm at 500 metres, or about 33mm at 1000 metres.
08:03Which, again, I find quite hard to believe.
08:06I mean, it's got a similar muzzle velocity to the cannon used on the M2.
08:11That can only do 22mm at 1000 metres at 60 degrees.
08:15This has got another 10 degrees and manages to penetrate an extra 10mm.
08:20The only figures that really made any sense to me ironically were the ones from Wikipedia,
08:24which, you know, could be completely unreliable.
08:27So that said, at about 40mm at 300 yards,
08:3133mm at 457,
08:3330mm at 600 yards,
08:3520mm at 900,
08:36and 15mm at 1200.
08:39Overall, I'd say this gun is probably comparable to the Panzer IIIe's gun and the M2 gun,
08:44as I said at the beginning.
08:46So, you know, we're talking about a very low-tier gun, like battle rating 1.3,
08:50which, you know, can affect the battle rating of the tank overall later on.
08:54Now, thicker 6-ton tanks usually have about 13mm maximum armour,
08:59but I've seen some references that the variant ordered by the Finns
09:03actually had slightly thicker armour at about 17mm.
09:07For comparison, the Soviet T-26s have a maximum armour of 15,
09:12so this is 2mm thicker than the T-26s.
09:16Moving on to speed, the T-26 in-game does about 19mph top speed,
09:22which could possibly be a bit heavier because it has a bigger gun, a different turret.
09:26Most 6-ton tanks could do, I think, about 22mph,
09:30so presumably the Finnish tanks would do somewhat...
09:33They'd probably do a bit more than 19mph, probably about 20-22mph,
09:37so reasonably fast.
09:40Now, moving on to crew, the Finnish 6-ton tanks had 4 crew
09:44rather than the 3 used on the other 6-ton tanks.
09:47I believe the usual configuration was 3 crew, the Finnish version has 4.
09:51You had 2 people in the turret, the commander and either a gunner or a loader,
09:55depending on what the commander was doing,
09:57and then you had the driver at the front.
10:00But then you had a sub-machine gunner.
10:03No, that isn't actually a typo.
10:06Instead of having a machine gunner, they decided to have someone with a sub-machine gun.
10:11I think that was on the left of the hull.
10:14I'm not entirely sure why they used a sub-machine gun,
10:17that seems like a really odd choice, if I'm honest.
10:20Now, there is another thicker 6-ton tank we're going to be looking at in a minute,
10:24or slightly modified 6-ton tank, but where would I put this one on the tech tree?
10:28When I put it on the light tank line,
10:31battle rating would have to be pretty low,
10:34probably about 1-1.3.
10:37It's very similar to the Soviet T-26 Ilyudin game,
10:41and that's only battle rating 1.
10:44The gun's similar to guns used on tanks at battle rating 1.3 at the most,
10:49so, yeah, battle rating 1-1.3.
10:52I would like to see this tank added into the game,
10:55the only thing that could possibly really put me off of it is
10:58it's quite similar to the Soviet T-26,
11:01so you could get a few friendly fire incidents out of that,
11:04but hopefully if it has some extra prominent markings,
11:08maybe you could avoid that, but really,
11:11that's probably the one downside to it, but it would be nice to have it in the game,
11:15to represent Finland during the Winter War,
11:18and I think it would be a nice tank to have in War Thunder.
11:21Now, the next variant of the Fika 6-ton I wanted to talk about
11:25actually came about because of the Winter War,
11:28and it's got a bit of an odd name, the T-26E.
11:31Like I said, the T-26 is a Russian tank,
11:35but basically during the Winter War, or after the Winter War,
11:38Finland started replacing the turrets of the Fika 6-ton tanks
11:43with the turrets from the Soviet T-26 with the 45mm gun.
11:48I think some of the optics were also upgraded,
11:51so that could be reflected in-game, having more effective or different optics
11:56when in sniper view or aiming at other tanks.
11:59Now, as it would be using the 45mm gun,
12:02it makes sense it would get the ammunition for the 45mm gun already in-game,
12:07so with armour-piercing high-explosive ballistic capped,
12:10at 100m, 0 degrees, it would do 59mm penetration,
12:1345 at 500m, and 35 at 1000m.
12:18Now, the 45mm gun is used on tanks up to the T-50,
12:23which is about rating 2.7, so it probably wouldn't be that high,
12:28but it could potentially go that high and still be a somewhat useful gun.
12:34Now, the armour would presumably be very similar,
12:38well, the hull would be unchanged,
12:40because obviously it was only the turrets that were really added onto the tank.
12:43The turrets could represent a bit of a downgrade or an upgrade,
12:47depending on what the armour was on the turrets of the original Fika 6-ton tanks.
12:52I think they were originally something like 13mm on the turret.
12:55I think it's 15mm on the T-26 turrets in-game already,
12:59so it could be a bit of an upgrade,
13:01but again, we're only talking about 1 or 2mm difference.
13:05Moving on to speed, again, it's got a turret with a bigger gun,
13:09so presumably it would be a bit slower.
13:11Possibly it would be the same speed as the T-26 in-game, about 19mph.
13:16So I'd say a ballpark about 20mph,
13:19probably, well, definitely slower than the original Fika 6-ton variant.
13:24The crew for the T-26E was basically unchanged.
13:28Again, two people in the turret, a gunner and a loader,
13:30with the commander taking one of those roles.
13:33And again, you've got a driver and the whole submachine gunner.
13:37I actually looked up the submachine gun used by the hull gunner,
13:41because I was quite curious as to what was so good about this gun
13:44that they kept using it on their tanks.
13:46It turns out it's the Suomoy M1931.
13:49I actually have it in one of my books,
13:51but the name just didn't click with me straight away for some reason.
13:55But basically it was a ridiculously well-made, good-quality submachine gun.
14:00Basically the hull gun was machined out of solid metal,
14:04and it was accurate up to ranges of something like 300m.
14:08So maybe this was a good alternative to a hull machine gun,
14:11because it was still accurate and fast-firing.
14:13Maybe if the tank was knocked out they could then continue its infantry as well.
14:17I'm not entirely sure why they used a submachine gun,
14:20but it's not as bad a decision as I thought it was when I was originally looking at this tank.
14:25One interesting fact I actually learnt about these tanks.
14:28They were delivered in the mid-30s as the original Ficus 6-tons,
14:32and then they were converted to the T-26Es.
14:34But they were actually kept in service until the late 50s or early 60s,
14:38presumably more as a training role.
14:40But these tanks were kept in service for a ridiculously long time.
14:44So where would I put this tank on the tech tree?
14:47Well, I'd say it should be about rating 1 to 1.3,
14:54because it is basically a T-26,
14:56but with slightly more crew.
14:58It could possibly go up to 1.3, because it's got a slightly better chance of surviving,
15:02because it's got the extra crew.
15:04But as for where it actually goes on the tech tree itself...
15:07Well, I spent a long time thinking about where it should go on the tech tree,
15:11and I ideally would like to see it on the medium line-up,
15:14because it is an important Finnish tank.
15:16It kind of fits there weapon-wise.
15:19But it is also basically a T-26, but with an extra crewman.
15:24Visually, it looks the same. It would probably play the same.
15:27It basically is the same as a T-26, gameplay-wise.
15:31Then you'd probably get friendly fire incidents.
15:34Maybe Gaijin would come out and say,
15:36well, there's no point adding this tank, because we basically have it in the game already as the T-26.
15:41I really want to see it on the medium line-up,
15:44but ultimately I've put it in the undecided slash premium line-up,
15:48because it kind of makes more sense there,
15:50because it's basically a captured vehicle in a way.
15:53It's Finnish tanks, but with Russian weapons.
15:56So we're a bit split. I would really like to see it on the medium line-up,
16:00but I think it would probably make more sense to go on the premium line-up.
16:03But either way, I'd really like to see this tank added to the game,
16:07because it was obviously an important Finnish tank,
16:09and I think it would do very well in War Thunder.
16:12Now, the last Finnish tank we're looking at is this rather odd-looking assault gun, the BT-42.
16:18Basically, the Finns took some captured BT-7s,
16:22and they added some 114mm howitzers that Britain had lent to the Finns during the Winter War.
16:29And it has a bit of an odd and not particularly great history.
16:33It wasn't a particularly well-liked vehicle, for reasons I'll explain in a minute.
16:37Now, looking at the stats, it does look okay on paper.
16:41It has an 114mm howitzer, so that should give it a decent high-explosive payload,
16:48and it can fire HEAT rounds.
16:50Now, the HEAT rounds it used were based on the German 105mm HEAT rounds,
16:55which seems to have caused some problems.
16:57I'm not sure if they built their own HEAT rounds to a similar design,
17:00or if they just took German HEAT rounds and modified them to be fired out of a 114mm howitzer.
17:07But during testing, it was found to be able to penetrate quite well,
17:11110mm of armour at something like a 70 degree angle.
17:15So they sent the BT-42s off to battle when they were involved in the defence of Freiburg or Vipuri,
17:21and the shells completely failed.
17:24Basically, they just didn't work.
17:26One T-34 was hit something like 18 times at short range, and nothing happened to it.
17:31You know, the shells obviously weren't working very well.
17:35They'd worked in the tests, but in combat they just weren't working.
17:38I've seen some suggestions it might have been to do with the fuse.
17:42Maybe they'd done a bit of a design flaw.
17:44I'm not sure, but either way they didn't work as intended or as in the tests.
17:48Now, how it would perform in War Thunder really depends on why the shell wasn't working.
17:53If it's a malfunction problem, as in the shell wasn't working because it wasn't put together properly,
17:58or it was damaged or something, then it should work perfectly fine in War Thunder,
18:03because War Thunder doesn't really represent those flaws in weapons and tanks.
18:08You know, it's the reason your tanks don't just randomly break down or catch fire or something.
18:13But if it's a design flaw, as in it was designed and the design was bad, it would never have worked anyway,
18:20then obviously it would have to be reflected in the game.
18:23But the fact it was tested and it worked suggests it wasn't a design flaw.
18:27The fact that then some tanks fired multiple shells into enemy targets and couldn't do anything to them
18:34suggests it was a design flaw, though.
18:36Really, I'm not entirely sure.
18:38I think it probably was a bit of a malfunction rather than a design flaw,
18:41so it should probably perform quite well in War Thunder,
18:44but really it depends what other sources suggest.
18:47I don't know if we could ever get a definite answer.
18:50Moving on to armour, it's not particularly great.
18:54The minimum is something like 6mm.
18:56The maximum, I've seen some sources say 13mm, I've seen others say 20mm.
19:01But, you know, it's pretty bad.
19:03A 50 caliber machine gun can definitely penetrate that armour.
19:08Which, you know, it kind of makes sense, it's on a light tank chassis,
19:11it's not like they can particularly up-armour it that much.
19:13But looking at speed, I thought it would be quite slow,
19:16but nearly everywhere I've looked says it can do something like 50km an hour,
19:20which is roughly 30 miles an hour.
19:22Yeah, again, that's quite surprising.
19:24I would have thought it would be quite overloaded with that huge gun,
19:27but apparently not.
19:29As for crew, apparently there was only something like three crew.
19:32I'm guessing it would have been something like gunner and loader or something,
19:35and then driver.
19:37Maybe the commander would be taking one of the roles,
19:39it's either the gunner or the loader.
19:41But yeah, not many crew, not particularly great armour,
19:44some potential problems with the gun.
19:46It's got good fast speed though, so that's a plus point.
19:50So where would this go on the tech tree?
19:53Well, I'm going to put it in the assault gun line-up,
19:56because, you know, it is an assault gun.
19:59As for tier and battle rating,
20:02I'm going to be really generous and put it at tier 2,
20:06because really I'm not sure how well it would perform at tier 3,
20:09because again, the confusion over the ammunition and such.
20:13I'm going to put it at battle rating 3.7.
20:17That's the same as the Stur 42G,
20:20which is a German tank destroyer of 105mm howitzer,
20:25which is also battle rating 3.7.
20:28The only other stuff that really seems similar is the SU-122,
20:31which is a battle rating 4,
20:33and the M4A3 of the 105mm gun, which is also battle rating 4.
20:38I don't know what the penetration of the high explosives on this would be,
20:41but I'm guessing they wouldn't be great,
20:43probably between 15 and 20mm.
20:46I'm also basing the battle rating on the assumption
20:49that the heat shells do work properly,
20:52but yeah, I think 3.7 is the best place for it.
20:55Of course, if the shells were just broken by design,
20:59like they were designed improperly,
21:01it could go at a lower battle rating,
21:03because like I said, the high explosive shells may not be that good.
21:06So that was the BT-42,
21:09a bit of an unusual, not particularly great assault gun
21:13that didn't do very well during WWII.
21:16I'd like to see it added to War Thunder.
21:19I think it would be quite an interesting vehicle,
21:21assuming it worked properly in-game.
21:24It would give the International Tech Tree something similar to the KV-2,
21:28although I doubt it would be as overpowered.
21:30But yeah, I'd like to see this added into the game.
21:33I think it's quite a nice little vehicle,
21:35and it does show some of the modifications Finland did make
21:39to some of the vehicles they captured.
21:42So now that we've looked at how Finland could contribute
21:45to the International Tech Tree with regards to tanks,
21:47how could it contribute with regards to events and maps and such?
21:51Well, it already has contributed with regards to maps.
21:54We already have Finland, the winter map.
21:57I think it was the first winter map added to the game.
22:00It's near a matra.
22:02It was called Enso during the time of WWII.
22:06It's now called Svetogorsk,
22:08and that's where the Finland map is based,
22:11or it's near to those areas.
22:13It's a pretty good map,
22:15presumably to represent the Continuation War and the Winter War.
22:20So already with regards to maps,
22:22we do have some Finnish maps added into the game.
22:25You could possibly add some extra ones.
22:27With regards to events,
22:29well, there's a few different events you could do.
22:31The obvious ones would obviously be the Winter War,
22:34the Continuation War, the Lapland War,
22:37and possibly some hypothetical WWIII situation
22:40where either NATO invades Finland,
22:43or the Soviets invade Finland,
22:45or Finland teams up with either of those sides.
22:47You could also do some sort of alternate history type events.
22:50Perhaps during the Winter War,
22:52the Allied Nations intervene in the war on the side of Finland.
22:55So you have Finland, Britain, France,
22:58and other Allied Nations against the Soviets.
23:00Maybe the Allied Nations invade Finland during the Continuation War,
23:04so Finland has to hold out against British and other Allied Nations,
23:08and maybe the Soviets as well.
23:10You could do the Lapland War.
23:12Maybe the Soviets and other Allied Nations help out against the Germans.
23:16So as you can see, Finland could contribute quite a lot to events in War Thunder.
23:20Because at the end of the day,
23:22there are lots of battles and wars to choose from
23:24when choosing to implement said events.
23:26And I think there are a lot of events that could involve Finland
23:29that would do very well in War Thunder.
23:31I do hope they could be incorporated
23:33in the event of the International Tech Tree being added to War Thunder.
23:37So that's it for this episode looking at Finland.
23:40Next episode we're going to be starting with France.
23:44And France, as you can see here,
23:46has got the most tanks of the Tech Tree, 31.
23:49I may have to actually update that count by the next episode,
23:53because I'm probably going to be adding some more vehicles or taking some away.
23:57But by far, France is going to be contributing the most to the Tech Tree.
24:00So that will probably be done over multiple episodes.
24:03You can see Finland with three tanks is going to be nearly a half-hour episode.
24:07France with 31.
24:09I'm either going to have to cut down on information about vehicles,
24:12or I'm just going to have to do lots and lots and lots of episodes.
24:15But I'll try and do one for each lineup at least.
24:19But anyway, that's it for this episode.
24:21I hope you enjoyed it.
24:22Leave a like if you did.
24:24Subscribe if you like these sorts of videos.
24:26Leave feedback. I could always do with more feedback.
24:28And yeah, thanks for watching. I'll see you next time.
24:31And as usual, if you enjoyed that episode,
24:33then don't forget to check out the other episodes popping up on screen now.

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