La Noche Temática continúa su emisión con el documental “¿Por qué hacemos clic?”, una producción holandesa de 2016 dirigida por Martijn Kieft, de 52 minutos de duración y producida por VPRO.
Se está llevando a cabo el mayor experimento psicológico de todos los tiempos, y todos participamos en él. Cada día, un billón de personas somos analizadas en la red. Pero, ¿qué determina nuestra conducta de compra? ¿Qué ingeniosos trucos consiguen que hagamos clic en los anuncios indeseados de las webs, que llenemos nuestras cestas al máximo, permanezcamos en sitios webs el mayor tiempo posible, o votemos por un candidato en particular? Las grandes firmas buscan psicólogos. Es la persuasión online.
Se está llevando a cabo el mayor experimento psicológico de todos los tiempos, y todos participamos en él. Cada día, un billón de personas somos analizadas en la red. Pero, ¿qué determina nuestra conducta de compra? ¿Qué ingeniosos trucos consiguen que hagamos clic en los anuncios indeseados de las webs, que llenemos nuestras cestas al máximo, permanezcamos en sitios webs el mayor tiempo posible, o votemos por un candidato en particular? Las grandes firmas buscan psicólogos. Es la persuasión online.
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00:00He may not know, but at the moment the biggest psychological investigation project is being carried out to date.
00:09Another thing he does not know is that you are part of it. Yes, you too.
00:15He has never signed for it or given his consent, and the results will never be made public, but they will be used.
00:23We can be influenced very easily, as the evidence shows.
00:28The results are used to influence you, and in a significant way.
00:33They are trying to turn everyone into something that looks a lot like an addict.
00:38You are being bombarded with new tricks to persuade you to buy online articles,
00:44to stay glued to the screen of your smart phone for longer,
00:49to spend even more time on Facebook, and also to change your political opinions.
00:55Smart, right? Welcome to the world of clicks.
00:59You buy online, talk to your friends on Facebook or WhatsApp,
01:04send messages on Twitter, watch videos on YouTube, and shape your political opinions,
01:10based increasingly on online news and social media.
01:15But how do you get to a particular website? Why do you decide to watch a video?
01:22It is a deliberate decision that actually determines where we click.
01:36The old world of marketing and advertising, which uses posters, advertising banners,
01:42and TV ads to persuade us, has been replaced by a completely new environment.
01:48They call themselves online persuaders.
01:52They don't talk about sales tricks, but about conversion rates,
01:55working hours, habits, and clicks.
02:01It is a world full of skilled operators who have learned a lot in recent years
02:06about how our brain works, and therefore how easily we can be persuaded to click.
02:14Bar Shutz is a global communicator on online marketing.
02:19He is a psychologist and knows exactly how the online world finds out
02:23what is going on inside our head.
02:33The real expert in behavior in social environments
02:37is the Facebook research team.
02:42Because they have carried out research among a large number of people.
02:48A psychology professor cannot compete with that.
03:03I also do those experiments.
03:07And we learn a lot from them.
03:10We learn at a dizzying rate, much more than psychology has ever known.
03:40That's the metaphor.
03:42We want our sales to increase.
03:44We want our energy and our conversions to increase.
03:47We want to make money.
04:11Can you say, Tim, will you double your visits next year if you use this?
04:16Does anyone know what is the most persuasive word in the English language?
04:20I've seen QR codes on websites.
04:23And I've scanned them.
04:26Do you know where they take me?
04:28Back to the web.
04:31And the audience goes crazy.
04:40Now we can start scanning.
05:10The Facebook research team is the best in behavior science,
05:13because they carry out many experiments that they really don't understand.
05:17And the results of those experiments amaze them.
05:22That's why they invited me.
05:30In particular, summons with a large number of people
05:34comparing on their website
05:36to see what determines the buying behavior.
05:39They are interested in the added value of behavior science.
05:47This is a booming business.
05:49The big firms are actively looking for psychologists.
06:07This is an A-B test.
06:10I'm going to explain what happens
06:12if you go online to a virtual store, for example.
06:17One believes that this virtual store has only one website.
06:24But when you visit it,
06:26the website will be able to decide that you see version A,
06:30which can be a totally new page,
06:32where everything is different,
06:34or where a detail has changed.
06:36For example, this image, A.
06:40Or it can also present the variant with a different image,
06:44image B.
06:47Why do they do that?
06:49They do it for everyone.
06:51Half of the people get image A,
06:53and the other half image B.
06:56This image will influence us when buying the product,
07:01clicking on buy or buy party.
07:05When you do that, you provide your data and you pay.
07:09And the company receives money.
07:12What they measure is,
07:14of every 100 people who see image A,
07:17how much money is received.
07:20And of every 100 people who see image B,
07:23how much money is received in turn.
07:26The percentage is called conversion rate.
07:30That's what all conferences, books and blogs are about.
07:36The conversion rate indicates
07:38what percentage of visitors buy a product.
07:48The chances that you are part of an experiment
07:51if you enter the Internet are very high.
07:54For most governments,
07:56and maybe some charitable organizations,
07:59the tests are still under discussion.
08:02But all banks, insurance companies,
08:05virtual stores,
08:07are conducting tests with millions of people.
08:11And that's because the same person can be included in many tests.
08:23Everyone wants to be able to get people to buy things.
08:28That's called persuasion.
08:33These people do not consider this something harmful at all.
08:37They love to talk about persuasion.
08:40Yes, I am also for persuasion.
08:43Conversion is out of fashion, so to speak.
08:46Now everything revolves around persuasion.
08:49This is the branch of marketing of commercial psychology.
08:58And I'll let you tell your stories.
09:01So let's all give a warm welcome to Mark and Tom.
09:05And the audience goes crazy.
09:08Come on up, guys.
09:12Is it easy to influence people?
09:15Yes.
09:17That's the sad truth.
09:20We can be influenced by people.
09:24That's the sad truth.
09:27We can be influenced very easily,
09:30as the results of the tests show.
09:33The results are often counterintuitive.
09:36Previously, one would say,
09:38this is not going to work.
09:41Annoying things like emergency windows, etc.
09:44We know very little about what drives our behavior.
09:49Who of you is doing AB tests?
09:52Most of you, right?
09:55Annoying emergency windows
09:58mostly produce positive results.
10:01Between 10 and 15% more people
10:04buy a product or book a room
10:07when these emergency windows are present.
10:10Very often people think they are rational
10:13and constantly in control of their decisions,
10:16but that's not the case.
10:33Booking.com, a German-based website
10:36for booking rooms in hotels,
10:39has seen huge growth in recent years.
10:42Hundreds of people in their offices in Amsterdam
10:45are dedicated to doing one thing,
10:48testing online customers.
10:51We do a lot of AB experiments,
10:54also because we are a very large company.
10:57We sell more than a million rooms a day,
11:00so a 5% conversion rate
11:03would mean that we would have 20 million visitors a day.
11:06How many of those visitors are tested?
11:09We try to test everyone,
11:12we work with what we call coin-throwing.
11:15When you visit our website,
11:18we throw the coin.
11:21It opens, either the home page
11:24or the slightly altered page.
11:27When you click,
11:30you enter a new experimental environment.
11:33If you spend 20 minutes on our website,
11:36you can be part of 40 experiments.
11:42So the website does not exist.
11:45There are no two customers who see the same page.
11:48The changes we make
11:51are so small and subtle
11:54that you don't notice them.
11:57For example, buttons that indicate an action
12:00such as search or book this room,
12:03or whatever.
12:06Do they work better with a white border
12:09than with a black one?
12:16We soon learned
12:19that what most people say
12:22or what we expect after having a group discussion
12:25really doesn't matter much.
12:28What is truly valuable
12:31is observing a customer's behavior,
12:34observing it and using it as a basis for our next decisions.
12:37If I ask people who are looking for a hotel in Amsterdam
12:40to also look for apartments,
12:43they may say,
12:46no, I want to stay in a hotel in that city.
12:49But of the people who type hotels in Amsterdam
12:52in the search bar,
12:55a high percentage end up booking an apartment.
12:58Because of its location, its appearance or the price.
13:01Or because they had already searched a lot
13:04for a reservation.
13:10We learn a lot from the customer's behavior.
13:13This leads to a rapid improvement
13:16in the way we answer questions,
13:19thus creating loyal customers
13:22who like what we do.
13:25Will a salesman perform better than a saleswoman?
13:28Will a short text work better than a long text?
13:31All this can be tested online
13:34and obtain reliable results.
13:37Does this really lead us to a better customer experience
13:40so that they return to our page?
13:46Any business line that can digitize its process
13:49and have enough volume to experiment
13:52will advance much faster
13:55than companies without that ability.
14:02Continuous tests help Booking.com
14:05to get us to a suitable hotel room faster.
14:08But it's not just the virtual stores
14:11that do online tests.
14:14Virtually all websites and applications
14:17study our mind.
14:20But what if online tests are used
14:23with more harmful objectives?
14:26The Internet started as a kind of medium
14:29in which you could click and visit pages
14:32and stay in them.
14:35Now you go to a page and it offers you the next step,
14:38and then you start clicking on the next thing,
14:41and the next thing, and what's going on
14:44is that the persuasion of the Internet as a whole is going up.
14:47The moment you open a door and go into that,
14:50you're more likely to be absorbed by something
14:53that you may not have intended to do.
15:00Google
15:14Tristan Harris sold his company to Google
15:17and started working for the Internet giant
15:20as a product manager.
15:23He saw up close how the design of apps and websites
15:26was increasingly aimed at keeping us connected
15:29to the Internet as long as possible.
15:35Every single player, every app,
15:38every website, every service
15:41competes to capture our attention.
15:44Even if you're building an app for meditation,
15:47your goal is to hook people to meditate every day,
15:50to open the app every day.
15:53If you're an addictive game or Facebook,
15:56you need people to come and visit you every day
15:59and stay as long as possible.
16:02Everyone's competing for the one finite resource of excellence,
16:05our attention or our time.
16:08What's the best way to get attention?
16:11It's to be better and better at persuading people,
16:14taking advantage of more and more of these psychological instincts
16:17so that people come back and stay,
16:20and that's what we do.
16:30When you wake up in the morning,
16:33one of the first things people do is turn on their mobile
16:36and check it out.
16:39And that programs their whole mind to think about the day ahead,
16:42about what they have to do, about what they have to accomplish.
16:45And whenever we have a break in time, we don't know what to think about,
16:48we check our phone to see what we should think about,
16:51who we should contact.
16:54It's like we're looking at a billboard or something like that.
16:57There's a moment where you're driving and you see something,
17:00and that changes your beliefs about a product.
17:03That's one type of persuasion.
17:06But another way is when the contents of our mind influence each moment,
17:09because it's all sent through an extension of our mind
17:12that is owned and used by millions of people.
17:19It's like an evolutionary system
17:22in which there are actors who are like organisms.
17:25Facebook is an organism, Twitter, YouTube,
17:28and each iteration they're mutating new persuasive techniques.
17:31They're trying new things to survive,
17:34to adapt,
17:37to get more people's attention.
17:40And when that mutation works,
17:43they discover a more effective technique
17:46and the other organisms have to mutate
17:49and use a similar technique.
17:52So, for example, there actually is an artificial intelligence
17:55called Facebook News Feed,
17:58which is always trying new and different things
18:01to design the whole of that feed
18:04and create great stories and such like,
18:07so that people stay longer.
18:10If we use the metaphor of Las Vegas slot machines,
18:13one thing is that a person makes the decision
18:16to leave home,
18:19take a car,
18:22and drive to a casino to play the slot machines.
18:25And another very different thing
18:28is that there is a slot machine
18:31present or right next to them
18:34every time that person has to think or make a decision.
18:38A slot machine is persuasive
18:41because it operates under the principle of intermittent variable reward.
18:44You pull the lever
18:47and sometimes you get an exciting reward
18:50and other times you don't.
18:53And it's exactly when it's unpredictable,
18:56when the uncertainty is maximized,
18:59that people get the largest rush
19:02and the largest addictiveness is created
19:05when it's variable reward.
19:08When the programming of the reward
19:11is intermittent and variable,
19:14and sometimes it's like,
19:17oh, I don't know,
19:20I have a text message from the girl
19:23with whom I want to go out
19:26or I have this exciting video
19:29and other times it's like nothing.
19:32So we never know if we're going to succeed
19:35or if we're going to win
19:38and it's very persuasive.
19:42It's all about how do you make your website
19:45or your app stickier,
19:48how do you retain attention?
19:51Right now it's measured
19:54through these little units of time
19:57and clicks and how long you sit there
20:00and you think about what is the logical
20:03sort of end goal that they're after here.
20:06And you think about
20:09what is the logical end goal
20:12that they're after here.
20:15They're trying to turn everybody
20:18into what looks like an addict.
20:40Natas Azul's research
20:43Initially, Natas Azul's research
20:46focused on Facebook and Twitter
20:49as well as digital technology
20:52and swallowing machines.
20:55But he soon noticed the great similarities
20:58between the behavior of swallowing machine users
21:01and that of frequent users
21:04of online games.
21:08Gamblers will often speak
21:11about having the sensation
21:14of being merged with the machine.
21:17They can't tell where their finger ends
21:20and where the screen begins
21:23and they feel like they know
21:26what's going to happen next.
21:29They don't really believe it
21:32because they don't know
21:35what's going to happen next.
21:38They don't really believe it,
21:41but they're describing a feeling
21:44that develops through a very fast
21:47repetitive interaction with the game.
21:50Gamblers talk about the zone
21:53and then you have this parallel term
21:56in the gaming industry.
21:59They call it time on the machine.
22:02Their term is continuous playful productivity
22:05and by that they allude
22:08to how you can accelerate
22:11and make this exchange more efficient
22:14between the machine and the player
22:17so that you can continue to see it producing
22:20almost acting like a factory worker
22:23but in a casino factory where
22:26instead of sitting in the assembly line
22:29you're sitting in the machine
22:32engaged in continuous playful productivity
22:35as a unit of value for the casino.
22:47They feel so immersed in the game
22:50that what they're really playing
22:53is to continue that absorption
22:56even if they win, they won't leave.
22:59That's not their objective.
23:02The pot only serves to re-insert
23:05the profits in the machine
23:08to be able to keep playing,
23:11to stay in that zone
23:14where time and space and money
23:17and even the sense of self falls away.
23:21When you're in the machine
23:24your whole body position is different.
23:27You're kind of sitting down
23:30with your eyes a little bit glazed over
23:33and you're just repetitively tapping with your finger
23:36and the motivation there is that
23:39you've completely dropped out of the world.
23:42You're just in the rhythm of the game,
23:45the next spin, the next spin, the next spin.
23:51We all have this kind of experience
23:54with machines nowadays.
23:57I think we've all been in the zone,
24:00so to speak,
24:03whether it's trying to buy something
24:06in an eBay auction or playing Candy Crush.
24:09It's this sense that you can just keep playing
24:12and you don't know what's going to happen next
24:15or you're on Facebook clicking on images
24:18and you don't know when it's going to appear.
24:21An incredibly small loop, incredibly repetitive,
24:24and that loop is being used more and more
24:27in the world in general,
24:30especially in the web, in websites.
24:33And that's also the term ludification
24:36that we always hear about.
24:39The idea is that if you create those little spins
24:42similar to the slug machines
24:45with rewards, levels and bonuses,
24:48you can hook people.
24:51And it's true that they have that effect,
24:54but they're also accompanied by collateral damage
24:57and unwanted consequences.
25:00That constant clicking, that micro-click culture
25:03soaks it all up.
25:06And corporate value is increasingly measured
25:09in terms of clicks and I like it.
25:12It does create that image of slug players
25:15just tapping.
25:28This whole cast of strange bedfellows
25:31come to me for a conversation
25:34to ask me for input on how to use persuasion
25:37either for profit
25:41or for a good cause.
25:44It was actually a little disconcerting at first,
25:47but it's turned into a very telling subject
25:50of the contemporary language
25:53and the logic that goes around persuasion
25:56which has lost so many aspects of our daily life.
26:00I often find when a friend calls me
26:03to stay for breakfast at a place here in Berlin
26:06and I'll start looking at the app
26:09and I'll start like scrutinizing
26:12if it's the better place than this
26:15and I'll look at the photos and I'll look at the whole thing
26:18and this happens to me.
26:21I mean, this happened to me two days ago
26:24and it still happens to me
26:27even though I know how much it does to me
26:30and it's like the only thing I really care about
26:33is seeing where the breakfast is
26:36and I don't care that much about having a good experience
26:39with what specifically they have
26:42and I just want to have the experience I want to have
26:45but in that moment I kind of lose track
26:48of the thing that I'm using
26:51and you can't use this by this way
26:54but when they give you all the literature
26:57that's the outcome
27:00even though it's not what you actually care about.
27:04What makes this tricky
27:07is that companies like Facebook or YouTube
27:10say we're just providing more access to information
27:13or we're giving people the opportunity to promote ourselves
27:16we're giving people the opportunity
27:19to live in a more open and connected world
27:23and when somebody offers you so many possibilities
27:26it's hard to think that there could be any downside
27:29it's so incontestable that they're offering us
27:32all of these possibilities
27:35that we don't ask ourselves the key question
27:38what are these choices for?
27:41If we go back to the underlying human need
27:44that's behind any decision making
27:47when you're in a screen choice making situation
27:50are the underlying things that you're doing
27:53are those choices really behind what we're doing?
28:01I don't know anybody that has a personal goal
28:04to spend as much time on Facebook as much time as possible
28:07maybe someone on the island but I doubt it
28:10and I certainly don't.
28:20What's happened is there's a disconnection
28:23between the design goals of the technologies
28:26that we use on a daily basis
28:29and the goals that we have for our lives
28:32our goals have been more time with my family
28:35learn how to play the piano
28:38get my PhD
28:41but technology's goals
28:44they don't know that's my goal
28:47and their goal for me is
28:50spend as much time sitting looking at this website
28:53the ideal type of technology
28:56is like a GPS
28:59it helps you figure out where you want to go
29:02and how to get there
29:05and I think that the technologies we use day to day
29:08should work like information GPS
29:11because imagine if you have a GPS
29:14the first time you use it it takes you where you want to go
29:17but the second time it takes you a few streets away
29:20and you think maybe you have a mistake
29:23where you're going or something
29:26the next time it says it goes to a completely different city
29:29and then maybe the next time it goes to a different state
29:32or country
29:35nobody in their right mind would be able to take a GPS
29:38that distracted them from where they wanted to go
29:41so if we don't want that kind of distraction
29:44that guides us through physical space
29:47why would we want to tolerate it
29:50in technologies that guide us through information space
29:55if Facebook knew that my desire
29:58is to finish my PhD
30:01or make a trip to a certain place
30:04I can't imagine how immensely useful that could be for me
30:07but it doesn't know that because it doesn't ask
30:10for a position in a bank
30:16so they're not soliciting a position in a bank
30:19my only issue is that their objective was to capture more savings accounts
30:22and more loans
30:25and not so much to promote a healthy financial behavior
30:28I'm not against people
30:31it's a different conversation
30:34I know, I just bring it up
30:40the world of online conversion and persuasion
30:43is expanding rapidly
30:46many new professions have emerged
30:49with such exotic names
30:52as travel designer, beekeeper
30:55persuasion director and conversion scientist
30:58but they all see the client
31:01in a completely different way
31:04than the old sellers did
31:08it's a purely commercial vision
31:11in which the human factor is totally absent
31:14a seller looks you in the eye
31:17if it's an undesirable one, he can deny it
31:20but most people have a much more accentuated sense of ethics
31:23and they'll apply the human factor
31:26because they're in front of you
31:29and they're also experts in personal contact
31:32and they're also experts in personal contact
31:36however, people who sit in front of a computer
31:39only look at a screen
31:42and the only thing they see
31:45is a lot of numbers
31:48they don't experience any human contact
31:51a seller has much more human contact
31:54than an internet salesman
31:57who interacts with millions of people
32:00but only sees numbers
32:04we don't know why we do what we do
32:07we don't know the reasons behind our behavior
32:10but you're going to find out
32:13because you're participating
32:16in the biggest psychological experiment of all time
32:19we're learning a lot
32:22about very small details that influence us
32:25digital data can be linked to almost anything
32:28a traditional seller wasn't aware
32:31of the impact climate can have
32:34online it's very easy to link meteorological data
32:37to the results of the tests
32:40or to the behavior of the users on the web
32:43the differences are huge
32:46when the weather is good
32:49people buy more new products
32:52and spend more money
32:55when we're happy, we're much more open to the news
32:58we believe that our preferences
33:01determine our behavior
33:04but it all depends on the situation
33:07how we feel, the climate
33:10who's with us, what we just did
33:13those factors determine much more
33:16how we choose, act, think and feel
33:19than our personal preferences
33:22and our internal motivations
33:25and now we can determine all those external factors
33:28that have a huge impact
33:31before, sellers couldn't
33:34and then there's the users
33:37millions of them
33:40including your partners and your mothers
33:43and the users think they're irrational
33:46they believe they know the reasons behind their behavior
33:49that's their illusion
33:52but now you know that's not the truth
33:55that's only part of the truth
33:58and very often it's the opposite of the truth
34:01because of all the experiments you're doing
34:04we've learned so much
34:07about the huge gap in behavioral intelligence
34:10as I call it
34:13between commercial companies and their customers
34:16and this gives you a huge responsibility
34:19because you can very easily persuade the customers
34:22but it doesn't always have any benefit
34:34there was a time when we had to cut ties with a client
34:39and all they made were loans
34:44but they avoided using words like credit and loan
34:47if people don't know the difference
34:50between a loan and a credit
34:53and you show them pictures of products
34:56they've seen on eBay
34:59you sell more loans
35:0280% of users
35:05had a bad credit rating
35:18when I was studying at Stanford in 2006
35:21there was a lab full of students
35:24who were basically taught different techniques
35:27to create behavioral changes
35:30for example, if people want to lose weight
35:33or use dental floss
35:36they studied how technology could play a role
35:39in changing the behavior of people
35:42and that's what I did
35:45I studied how technology could play a positive role
35:48in encouraging behaviors that people want
35:51and in this class
35:54we learned all kinds of techniques
35:57about how to make people act or choose in a certain way
36:00and there was never a voice that questioned
36:03the ethics of developing and applying these principles
36:06including the professor's
36:09it was a class about ethics
36:12it wasn't just a set of questions
36:15it was just, let's talk
36:18in this new world
36:21where the decisions of a small group of people
36:24influence the thinking, the relationships, etc
36:27of hundreds of thousands of people
36:30there should be a certain ethic
36:33in taking decisions in the name of another person
36:36with this rapid expansion of techniques
36:39you sell a president
36:42or a toothpaste
36:45in the end, the logic is the same
37:01the whole campaign was based on data
37:04I was part of an analysis team
37:07made up of 55 people
37:10our challenge was to use a budget
37:13of a thousand million dollars
37:16and a team of 2.2 million volunteers
37:19in the most effective way possible
37:22to maximize the chances of winning
37:34how can you, from data
37:37know if a person's opinion can be influenced
37:50how does that work in practice?
38:04it's about the economy, for example
38:07or about Obamacare
38:10or any other relevant topic
38:13and then a week later
38:16we measure the impact that that has had
38:19if we do that with 10,000 voters
38:22we can determine what kind of people changed their mind
38:25which ones kept the one they already had
38:28or even which ones changed their mind negatively
38:31and what did you learn from that experience?
38:34what kind of people can be influenced more easily?
38:37I can't say
38:40it's ultra-secret
38:43yes, I can't do it
38:46the fact is that
38:49persuasion research
38:52is the direction we're heading
38:55so obviously the results of that research
38:58are more under the radar
39:01than our results
39:11little by little we begin to understand
39:14how our brain makes decisions
39:17from time to time we learn something
39:20saying one thing leads to A
39:23but slightly modified leads to B
39:28and so on
39:34as we generate more and more data
39:37and we understand better
39:40how people make decisions unconsciously
39:43in the future
39:46we could wake up in a world
39:49where we know which buttons to press
39:52to change people's minds
39:59obviously that would not be correct
40:02governments must regulate in a preventive way
40:05so that there is a clear regulation
40:08before that becomes possible
40:19right now we're at a point
40:22where persuasive design is still moving
40:25we have a user interface
40:28with a screen and a browser
40:31but there is a new emerging paradigm
40:34some people say AI
40:37will be the new user interface
40:40and in a world where users
40:43will interact as AI agents
40:46of one or another type
40:49it's not hard to imagine
40:52and it will be much more difficult
40:55to see and control
40:58in the field of academic ethics
41:01it is already being raised
41:04to what extent we will be able
41:07in the future to control algorithms
41:10whether they are persuasive or any other type
41:13but right now it is urgent
41:16because at least we can still see
41:19that algorithms are working
41:22in the pockets of a processor
41:25located in a corner of any other country
41:28and then it will be much more difficult
41:31to know if they are a persuasive force
41:34and even more to control them
41:37and question why they are doing what they are doing
41:40good afternoon
41:43welcome to the seminar on consumer psychology
41:47I would like to invite our first speaker
41:50to make use of the word
42:02I would like, on behalf of the real psychologists
42:05to start the debate on this issue
42:08from which I hope a working group will come out
42:11that will write the ethical codes for this field
42:17I always call the internet
42:20the greatest psychological experiment in history
42:23because it allows us to measure
42:26more or less the human behavior
42:29I can not measure the dopamine rate
42:32in the brain of a user
42:35or how confused it may be
42:38but I can see if it clicks
42:41and that measurability gives me chills
42:44companies have a very clear goal
42:47they have a goal
42:50most want you to give them your money
42:53the more the better
42:56others want you to give them your time
42:59platforms like facebook
43:02talk about online time used
43:05not time well used or happily used
43:08only time used
43:12a possible solution
43:15would be to reduce or clean up the interfaces
43:18so that the options are organized
43:21in a capacitive way
43:24for people to make their own choices
43:27it could be including less information on the pages
43:30and less things to think about
43:33that would imply a modification in the design
43:36that is, users would have a more limited menu
43:39but more motivating
43:42the other way would be to continue being deeply persuasive
43:45but persuasive in a direction
43:48that aligns with what people consider
43:51the reflection of their values
43:54or what they really care about
43:57or to a better use of their time
44:00the system should evolve in those two directions
44:03Tristan Harris left his job as product manager on Google
44:06he launched Time Well Spent
44:09a movement of designers and programmers
44:12that wants to achieve a radical change
44:15in the design of smart phones
44:18web pages and applications
44:21but they need users to get involved
44:24it's like the organic movement
44:27you need a change on both sides
44:30in the movement for an organic diet
44:33you need users to modify their practices
44:36when creating food
44:39and get involved in it
44:42but it also took consumers to say
44:45we want something different
44:48we don't want just the cheapest price
44:51and let the manufacturer put the chemical products they want
44:54consumers had to speak and say they wanted something better
44:57so if you're Apple or Google
45:00we want the design of our phone
45:03to reflect the role we want our phone to play
45:06if we don't want it to be the center of our lives
45:09the design should reflect that it's something peripheral
45:12but that's not going to happen by the manufacturers themselves
45:15so we have to tell them that we want something different
45:20we have to use the psychological experience
45:23and get an effective intervention from governments
45:26technological companies have to be aware
45:29of the possible negative consequences for consumers
45:32I hope to build something
45:35that offers us greater protection
45:38protection so that companies
45:41that know us much better than ourselves
45:44don't take advantage of us
45:59Apple
46:02Apple
46:05Apple