"It is a holdout!" Is it time to start referring to the situation with Judon, a holdout? How do you resolve the issue? Wiggy: "You trade him or pay him!"
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00:00I was listening to Grecian Foyer yesterday, Wiggy, and Foyer made a great point, said
00:09we've got to stop referring to this as a hold-in, it is a hold-out.
00:15It's like calling somebody who doesn't do anything at work, somebody who is quiet, quit,
00:21I would say.
00:23So I mean, it's a hold-out.
00:25I don't know how you resolve it short of, at this point, of trading him, but maybe they'll
00:33give and they'll give in and give him his money.
00:37I don't know.
00:39I don't, you know, if you're Matt Judon and you look, you're evaluating cap space and
00:47suggesting that that money should go to you and not to acquiring talent that might make
00:55the team better, do you, would you want that money spread evenly between all of the other
01:03guys who are on the football team, or is it just you, Matt Judon?
01:07No, I think it's, he's probably like, it's me, and-
01:10Are there other guys who could use a raise over there?
01:12I think he would probably look at it-
01:13I think he's like everybody else who is out to make the most money, and he knows everybody
01:17else is doing that for themselves too.
01:19Who benefits more when it comes to, and I always love this, is like, when you think
01:24about how much the owners make and how much they give players, do you really believe,
01:30we saw DJ Moore just signed with the Chicago Bears, or we've seen some of these quarterbacks,
01:35do you think they're giving them their actual worth on what they're bringing in into the
01:41money that they're putting in their pockets?
01:42Their issue should be, we discussed this yesterday when Sean O'Brien stopped by here,
01:46their issue should be with the players association.
01:51They're the ones who give in every time when the owners say, we're not going to guarantee
01:55every contract.
01:56Well, that's because the owners know.
01:57The owners know they can play dirty pool because they need to get seven out of 10 players to
02:02sign up, and the best players in the league are not represented by 70% of the rank and
02:07file players that vote to ratify the CBA.
02:10It's like Sean O'Brien.
02:11He knows that the company got plenty of money to say, you know what?
02:15If we want to fight this in quarter, you want to go on strike, fine.
02:20We got plenty of money.
02:21We got enough of a fallback fund for the company that will be good.
02:26Players don't have that.
02:28I would just say this, Wiggy, sorry.
02:29I would say that the biggest thing for me that the Judon negotiations shows me is it
02:37shatters any foundational belief I have in this organization for the next five years.
02:44That this was such an easy oncoming vehicle.
02:48Matthew Judon, your most talented player, outspoken critic of roster building even when
02:53Belichick was here, and you're taking care of all these guys around him, and you wait
02:59until camp to even sit down and negotiate?
03:03They should have either signed him or traded him before they signed anybody else, and they
03:08avoid this entirely.
03:09Correct, Curtis.
03:10This is Jeff from where?
03:12Hello, Jeff.
03:13Good morning.
03:14What's up?
03:15Hey, I just wanted to, first time caller, just wanted to call and say I love the show
03:21and Greg, I'm 110% behind you on this Matt Judon thing.
03:26This contract negotiation thing is just getting out of control.
03:31They need to trade him.
03:33Yeah.
03:34I mean, is he going to be happy?
03:37So you get some kind of deal done with him, and then you get six games, seven games into
03:41the season, and he wants more.
03:44I mean, I don't know.
03:45Pay him his worth.
03:46What, is everybody else?
03:47So then you give him what he- He's not worth it.
03:49He's a holdout, or in the Twitch chat, somebody suggested it's actually a holdup.
03:57So he's a holdout.
03:58He gets his money.
03:59He gets his way.
04:00And isn't everybody else going to go, all right, I'm going to do the same thing.
04:03No, but everybody else can do that.
04:06Anybody that's Matt Judon's level though, or above, will.
04:09So the front office has to consider that.
04:11But that's a pretty high level.
04:13Like when you get to that level, that means you are a huge contributor to the success
04:21of your football team, your franchise, whatever it is.
04:25Not everybody can do that.
04:27Do you think they feel Godchild's the other one?
04:30Do you think he's on the same level as Judon, or are they like, you know what, all right,
04:35whatever.
04:36We'll ship you out of here.
04:37And our defense, you know, won't miss a beat.
04:39So even though some people might try it, you got to have that type, it's like the great
04:45movie we all love with Tupac and Omar Epps.
04:49You got the juice now.
04:50You got to have the juice to be able to sit there and do what we're seeing Matt Judon
04:56do, or Trent Williams, or Brandon Ayuk, or Juma Ching.
05:00What about David Andrews?
05:01So you give Matt Judon more money, isn't David Andrews going to be entitled to step up and
05:06go, hey, wait a minute, I want my deal redone.
05:08If he feels that way.
05:09But David Andrews doesn't play a premium position.
05:13Defensive end right now is outside of quarterback and wide receiver, the third most important,
05:17highest paid position.
05:19So if David Andrews played defensive end, he would.
05:21But at the center, at his age, sadly, I mean, I think David Andrews should be paid 10 times
05:26what he makes.
05:27He's a great Patriot, but that's just not the way it works.
05:29This is Dave from Connecticut.
05:31Hello, Dave.
05:32Hey, how's it going?
05:33What's up?
05:34This is Matt Judon.
05:35I think he needs to take his clown show out of town.
05:37It's getting ridiculous.
05:38I mean, this is a time Mayo could actually step up and say, you know, someone, I'm not
05:43putting up with this guy and he needs to get control of the locker room.
05:47And I'll tell you, does anybody on this in this whole show think that Matt Judon is going
05:52to get them to the playoffs this year or next year?
05:54There's no way.
05:56What is it?
05:57Get him out.
05:58Thirty one, thirty two years old.
05:59He's, but he's your best player.
06:00Yeah, he's certainly not going to hurt.
06:02So I don't think, I don't think it's necessarily fair that we punish Gerard Mayo for this.
06:09Like this is more of a front office issue than it is a Gerard Mayo issue.
06:12Mayo yesterday addressed the issue, who went over, talked to Judon, basically sent Judon
06:16off the field.
06:17And he's like, don't come back until you decide you want to play like that.
06:20I think Mayo is doing everything he can.
06:23I think this should be more.
06:24This should be more onus on Elliott Wolfe than anybody else.
06:27You look at Judon.
06:30His first year with New England, twelve and a half sacks.
06:33His second year with New England, fifteen and a half sacks.
06:36Last year through four games, four and a half sacks.
06:39There was a point in time when he was out and you couldn't sniff the quarterback and
06:44people were like, oh man, you need Judon back.
06:46So to say Judon is washed is just stupid.
06:50Yeah, he might be thirty-one years old or whatever, but at the defensive end position
06:54it's completely different.
06:55It's not like you're a wide receiver who's thirty-two.
06:58I just don't understand the fan base, and this has been going on for a while, and Greg,
07:02you represent the majority, I think Wiggy and I are the minority in this, but why are
07:07you trying to be protective of Robert Kraft's money?
07:11He's got more money than God.
07:13He's perfectly fine.
07:15Matthew Judon is a good player on a team without many of them.
07:19Why wouldn't you sign him?
07:20That'd be my question.
07:21What's the downside?
07:22Why wouldn't you give him another ten million this year?
07:24Because you did it last year.
07:26You did the same exact thing for him last year.
07:29And did Robert Kraft have to refinance?
07:31Did he have to sell one of his homes?
07:33I don't know because I'm not the...
07:35Robert Kraft is the one who owns the football team.
07:38And so...
07:39A massively profitable endeavor.
07:42Yes, but we don't own it.
07:45Matthew Judon doesn't own it.
07:46But the more money the players get, the better it is for us.
07:49The more money Kraft gets, that sucks for us.
07:51Because who cares?
07:52They get to do helicopter?
07:54So for all those people that are like, oh, he's washed.
07:57You don't know what you're talking about, Wiggy.
07:59Just cut the guy.
08:00Let him go.
08:01Last year as a team, you had 36 sacks.
08:03The year prior to that, with Judon, you had 54 sacks.
08:08And what...
08:09Curtis is right.
08:10When you look at positions in the National Football League, when it comes to positions
08:14of importance, it's quarterback, defensive ends, wide receivers, and tackles.
08:24Offensive tackles.
08:25It should be tight ends.
08:26No, it should be.
08:27But you know, we're not.
08:28We'll make our way there one day.
08:29So when you look at the importance of what he means to your team, and you look at these
08:35teams that are successful, it's about having D-linemen that can create problems.
08:41This is Joe in the car.
08:44Good morning.
08:45What's up?
08:46Typical Wiggy, always taking the player's side, Nick.
08:50Wiggy, why sign contracts?
08:52Let me ask you a question.
08:53Why do people sign contracts?
08:56Why?
08:59Because they want to work.
09:01That's why they sign contracts.
09:03They want to work.
09:04Yeah, they want to work because they agree for that particular price.
09:10Joe, can I ask you something?
09:11He signed the contract, buddy.
09:13Joe, can I ask you a question?
09:16Can I ask you a question?
09:17I answered yours.
09:18I'm not doing mine yet.
09:19No, but I answered yours.
09:20I'm not doing mine yet.
09:21All right, go ahead.
09:22And then I want to ask you something.
09:23So why doesn't Judan just shut up, play the year, show the Pagers that he's still worth
09:34the value, and then go back and renew his contract?
09:38He signed the contract.
09:40So that's like.
09:41Can I ask a question, Joe?
09:43Sure.
09:44Sure.
09:45Even though you didn't answer mine.
09:46I could answer your thing because he wants to play.
09:49Because he wants to work?
09:50Yeah, he wants to work.
09:51Why is it, Joe?
09:52Let me ask my question.
09:53Joe, let me ask my question.
09:55Why is it that when guys get to the end of their contract and a team feels like they're
10:01not performing at the same level, why is it that the owners and front office say to them,
10:06we want you to take less money?
10:09Okay, that same question that you just asked me, why don't you go ask the players union?
10:15You didn't answer me.
10:16It has nothing to do with the players union.
10:18No, no, don't hang up on him.
10:19Joe, answer the question.
10:20No, it doesn't.
10:21Why is it cool for an owner to go to a guy when a guy has a specific number, and the
10:27owner says, we're not paying you that, we want you to take less money?
10:31Why is that cool?
10:32Again, that is what the union agreed to.
10:36The union agreed to it.
10:38The union didn't agree to that.
10:40Why do the owners fight so hard to not guarantee the contracts you think are so sacred, Greg?
10:45Because they're running a business.
10:47And they are entitled to make the decisions that they think are best for their business.
10:51As is Matthew Judon, as an independent contractor who will be 32 in August, who may never, if
10:56he gets hurt this year, the reason he's not going to play is that while it's a lot of
11:01money to all of us, if he's done this year at 32, he's thinking about his kids and their
11:06generational opportunities.
11:08Curtis, you don't act this way.
11:09Like, you don't act this way in business.
11:10You don't go, this show is doing very well here.
11:13Am I correct?
11:14It's excellent.
11:15Yes.
11:16Very close to being number one.
11:17Right.
11:18You're in the middle of a one-year contract.
11:19That's right.
11:20You very well could have leverage and go to Mike Thomas and say, you know what?
11:24I want a new deal done now.
11:26You don't do that.
11:27But I bet you-
11:28He doesn't have that type of juice.
11:29What do you mean he doesn't?
11:30He has the most juice out of anybody around here.
11:31No, no, no.
11:32I have no juice.
11:33He's got a lot of juice.
11:34No, no, no.
11:35He's got juj.
11:36He's got juj.
11:38Wiggy, one second.
11:39All right.
11:40Matthew Judon's son or daughter may have an opportunity to be patient like I am.
11:45Does that make sense?
11:46I have privilege that I have growing up with support from my family that I think I need
11:51to be very good at what I do.
11:53This company has been good to me, and I view things differently, but I am afforded that
11:58privilege.
11:59Have the Patriots been good to Matt Judon?
12:01Were they good to him last season when he wanted a new deal?
12:03I think they've been good to each other.
12:05Right.
12:06I asked Joe the question, why is it
12:09that any time I bring that up, nobody ever can answer it?
12:13He goes, well, it's the players union.
12:15Well, guess what?
12:16In the CBA, players have the ability to hold out.
12:21So this is something that they have the ability to do.
12:24But when I ask you, Greg, and all these others,
12:27Joe, who called in, why is it cool for an owner
12:31to go to a guy who they feel like might not
12:34be performing at the level and go,
12:36we don't want to honor your contract.
12:38We want to take less money, pay you less money.
12:40Why is that cool?
12:41They generally get that money at the end anyway.
12:43No, they don't.
12:43Yeah, they do.
12:44No, they don't.
12:44They do, Wiggy.
12:45They get money at the end of these deals all the time.
12:48Well, then why would they fight so hard for it, though?
12:50Here's Paul.
12:51Hello, Paul.
12:53All right, everybody.
12:54Let's just take a breath and think back.
12:56So from a business standpoint, OK, Wiggy,
12:59I'm going to keep this simple, all right?
13:01I work for a company.
13:03I do X, Y, and Z.
13:06And I'm expected to do it 10 or 15 times a year, right?
13:12Year to year, if I only like year two, year three,
13:14I only do it 12.
13:16I only do it 10 times.
13:17I only do it nine times.
13:19The expectation from the business side
13:21is still the same, right?
13:25I'm listening, yeah.
13:26I'm listening.
13:27OK, so OK, so how can that, why is that
13:33any different than pro sport?
13:36So if Judon is doing what he's supposed to be doing,
13:40he's out on the field, he's making plays,
13:42but he's not making as many plays,
13:44why is it cool for the owners in front office to come to him
13:46and go, we're not honoring your last year of your contract
13:50because we feel like you're not producing at the level
13:54we want you to produce?
13:55Because guess what?
13:56In NFL contracts, it doesn't specify,
14:00here's how many sacks you need to have
14:03for you to be producing.
14:04It doesn't specify that.
14:06But he should, I mean, if you're injured,
14:08if you have to, if you faced injuries in the last year,
14:11don't you think that plays into an owner of a team,
14:14like on the business side to say, well,
14:15I'm not sure if we want to up the contract right now
14:18or give you more money because we haven't seen the production
14:21in the last season because you were hurt.
14:23OK, so because you were hurt.
14:25OK, so guess what?
14:27When I wasn't hurt, I went well above the production.
14:31I want new money.
14:33What's wrong with that?
14:34You want the owner to say, you just said the owner goes,
14:37well, you were hurt.
14:38But guess what?
14:38When I wasn't hurt, I went way above the money.
14:41And if I'm the owner, I said, you should have come to us
14:43then.
14:45And he did, and Bill gave him more money.
14:47But if you want to understand the real core of these owners
14:50and how they believe, they gain cap space
14:54by guaranteeing money.
14:57They all tell their fans they just want to win.
15:00The way they can win is by guaranteeing
15:02a contract which the player wins and the team wins
15:06because it allows you more money to spend against the cap
15:09the owners created to collude against the players.
15:12Yet they don't do it.
15:13They give the impression that they care,
15:16when the reality is if they really did,
15:18they guaranteed the contracts and they can make a super team.
15:21And Greg, what's the Odyssey app?
15:23We have the Rewind, right?
15:25Joe should go back and listen to my lead.
15:28Was I pro-player or pro-team or pro-ownership?
15:32You were pro-ownership in your lead.
15:34So I go both ways.
15:34You do.
15:35You do go both ways.
15:37We've often discussed that behind your back here.
15:40It's all right.
15:41I'm just kidding.
15:43All right, we'll see what happens.
15:46It's a hold-in or a hold-out or a hold-up by Matthew Judon.
15:51And you could talk about that all day long
15:53here on Boston Sports Original, WEEI.