Does the Bible prophesy protection for any Christians during the Great Tribulation? Could this be in heaven or on the earth according to Revelation 12:13-16? Are all or only some Christians promised this protection (Revelation 12:16-17)? Are Philadelphian Christians the only ones promised this protection by Jesus in Revelation 3:7-10? Could the place of protection be in Jordan? What about Petra or Bozrah as the place? What did Herbert W. Armstrong write about Petra as a possible place? Might God use a prophet to tell the most faithful when to flee and where to flee to? What are some locations that the Bible shows will not be the place? What about being protected in one's own home? Are God's people supposed to "Gather together ... before the decree is issued (Zephaniah 2:1) so that they "may ... be hidden in the day of the LORD'S anger" (Zephaniah 2:3)? Who would be expected to issue that decree? Steve Dupuie and Dr. Thiel go over these matters.
A written article of related interest is available titled 'There is a Place of Safety for the Philadelphians. Why it May Be Near Petra' URL: https://www.cogwriter.com/place.htm
A written article of related interest is available titled 'There is a Place of Safety for the Philadelphians. Why it May Be Near Petra' URL: https://www.cogwriter.com/place.htm
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00:00Reads friends, this is Steve Dupuy for the Bible News Prophecy Program with Dr. Bob Thiel.
00:09Dr. Thiel, does the Bible mention a group of people that would be protected from the
00:13Great Tribulation?
00:14Yes, it does.
00:16Is that protection in heaven or on earth?
00:19According to the New Testament, it's on the earth.
00:22If you go to Revelation chapter 12, starting in verse 13, and I'll be reading from the
00:26New King James, we read that when the dragon saw he'd been cast to the earth, he persecuted
00:31the woman.
00:32Verse 14, but the woman was given two wings of a great eagle.
00:35She might fly into the wilderness to her place where she's nourished for a time, time and
00:40half of times from the presence of the serpent.
00:43So the serpent spewed out water that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
00:47Earth helped the woman, opened its mouth, swallowed the flood, which a dragon spewed
00:52out of his mouth.
00:53And the dragon was enraged with the woman.
00:55He went to make war with the rest of her offspring, those who keep the commandments
00:59of God and have the testament of Jesus Christ.
01:01So we see two groups of Christians, one of which is protected in the wilderness after
01:05Satan is cast to the earth and persecutes them, and then the other, who Satan goes after
01:10later.
01:11Well, where might that place be where they're protected?
01:16Maybe in the wilderness in Jordan, such as in Petra.
01:20What if it's not?
01:22Some have actually asked me about a place called Basra as being a place of safety.
01:26So I did some research on that.
01:27I found an article written by Tim McHide called, is Petra the prepared place of safety for
01:34Israel or you?
01:36And he says, will it become the number one safe destination for Israelites in the end
01:42time?
01:43Some people think it will.
01:44Others believe that Petra will be the place that the true church will be protected in
01:49fulfillment of Revelation chapter 12.
01:52Some think that the city could hold 144,000 people as a number of Israelite evangelists.
01:57Worldwide Church of God believed that to be 144,000 of their members who'd get there.
02:03This has appeal, but if you search the Bible, the city Petra, you won't find it, but you'll
02:08find the Greek name for the city, which is Selah, and both Petra and Selah mean rock.
02:17As far as how many people can get there, Tim said, this is wholly inadequate.
02:22He doesn't think he can hold more than 20,000, but he says main attribute given to the woman
02:29at the end is her offspring are the ones who keep God's commandments and have the faith
02:32of Jesus.
02:33So he says, this cannot possibly be the nation of Israel in the end times.
02:38And I think he's certainly absolutely, he's right about that.
02:41This is not the nation of Israel being promised protection there.
02:44What did Tim McKay say about Basra?
02:48He said like Petra, Basra is part of Jordan.
02:53And he also said that Jordan will be evacuated after the country is laid waste in an attack
02:58against Israel.
02:59He says, how will we know when it's time to go?
03:03God must send some prophets since no man knows the day, the hour, and he thought this would
03:08probably happen in the 2020s.
03:12Would you agree with Mr. McKay's analysis of the place of safety?
03:16I agree that according to various scriptures, Jordan seems to be the place, and that God
03:22will likely use a prophet to say when and where to go, but I disagree with various points
03:27like I do not believe that Jordan is going to be evacuated like that.
03:32But I do agree that Revelation 12 is talking about protections of faithful Philadelphia
03:36Christians, not the nation of Israel.
03:40As far as the old Worldwide Church of God goes, it said Petra could be the place, not
03:44that it would be.
03:45As a matter of fact, the late pastor general of the old Worldwide Church of God, Herbert
03:49W. Armstrong, wrote, I know many of you, your hearts go into Petra as the place of safety
03:55during the soon coming great tribulation.
03:57Well get your minds off Petra.
03:59Brethren I've never said Petra is definitely the place of protection, God will take it.
04:04I hope it's not.
04:06One reason it could be the place, it's a place nobody else would want to go.
04:09It would be the most unpleasant, uncomfortable, miserable place you could go, end quote.
04:16So cardinally speaking, Petra is not a place many would pick, but God may have chosen it
04:20or at least somewhere relatively near it or like it.
04:24Are you suggesting that contrary to Mr. McHyde's assertion, Petra is indeed large enough to
04:30be the place?
04:31Petra is certainly large enough for the Philadelphia Christians to be protected, and they're the
04:36only ones promised to be protected from the beast.
04:39But it also covers more area than the small rock carve area many think of.
04:44So it could be it or part of it could be the place.
04:48As far as Petra Basra go, there's several clues in the Bible that suggest a Jordanian
04:52location makes sense.
04:54The part of this is based upon where the place of protection is not.
04:59That's an interesting way to approach the subject.
05:02Where might the place of protection not be?
05:07Well, Jeremiah wrote, Jeremiah chapter four, starting in verse five, declare in Judah and
05:11proclaim in Jerusalem and say, blow the trumpet, gather together, assemble yourselves, let
05:16us go to the fortified cities, set the standard towards Zion, take refuge, do not delay.
05:22I will bring disaster from the north and great destruction.
05:26So we see, you don't want to be north of Jerusalem, Judea, that's not a place you'd want to be.
05:35This is consistent with what Jesus told his followers when they see abomination, desolation
05:38spoken of.
05:39They're saying something coming from the north.
05:43This is a reference, I believe, to the king of the north.
05:47And it's suggesting some of God's people will be in Judea, Jerusalem by this time, perhaps
05:52because they were in Europe and had to flee early.
05:56And in Luke chapter 20, starting verse 21, Jesus said some of his people would need to
06:01flee there.
06:02So we see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you know, it's desolation is near, that those
06:06who are Judea flee the mountains, those who are in the midst of her depart, let not those
06:11who are in this country enter her.
06:13So we see the place of safety is not Jerusalem or Judea.
06:18We also, in Zechariah chapter two, starting in verse six, it says, flee from the land
06:25of the north, says the Lord, up Zion, escape you who dwell with the daughter of Zion, and
06:30excuse me, daughter of Babylon.
06:33Daughter of Babylon is European Babylon.
06:34So again, you're not supposed to go north to Europe.
06:39Now in Isaiah 33, we find out that those who walk uprightly, starting verse 16, 15, 16,
06:50will dwell on high, this place of defense will be a fortress of rocks, bread will be
06:55given him, water will be sure.
06:57So God will make sure you have food and water.
07:01And Isaiah 45, verse 20 said, assemble yourselves and come, draw near together you who've escaped
07:06the nations.
07:07So there's fortresses of rocks for people who've escaped, so people are not being protected
07:10in their houses like some think.
07:13Now in Zephaniah, Zephaniah chapter two, we read some interesting things starting in verse
07:19one, gather yourselves together, yes, gather together, oh undesirable nation, before the
07:25decree is issued.
07:27I believe that's the decree to flee.
07:28The day passes like chaff, before the day of the Lord's fierce anger comes upon you,
07:34seek the Lord all you need to the earth, who held his justice, seek righteousness, seek
07:38humility.
07:39It may be that you will be hidden from the day of the Lord's anger.
07:46And I think the decree is going to be issued by a church leader, who I believe will be
07:50part of the continuing church of God, that's going to happen after Matthew 24, 14, the
07:55gospel being preached, the world's witness is fulfilled, the Jewish sacrifices are stopped,
07:59and the abomination of desolation set up, as Jesus said in Matthew 24.
08:03It remains my prayer that those who are Philadelphia Christians who are scattered in other groups
08:09will assemble together with us before it's too late.
08:12Furthermore, in Zephaniah, it talks about God's forsaken and voted the inhabitants of
08:20the sea coast.
08:21So that's not the right location, so you're not going to be going west of Jerusalem either.
08:28So if you get rid of the north, the west, and actually some of the south pretty much
08:33leads to the southeast.
08:36And so that points to a place perhaps in Jordan.
08:41David talked about a place in Psalm 27, 5, in secret of his tabernacle, he shall hide
08:47me, he'll set me upon a rock.
08:49The second word is Selah, which again is Petra, so it's a place of protection, Selah,
08:57an escape for David.
09:00Jesus said to pray Matthew 24, 20, their flight would not be in the Sabbath or in the winter.
09:06And that also consistent with Revelation 12, 14 is talking about an actual place to go,
09:10which is on the earth.
09:14Petra is a harsh desert, but it's mainly south and slightly east of Jerusalem.
09:24Basra is also the right general direction as are other locations in Jordan.
09:30It's also possible the actual place of protection could simply be near Petra or part of its
09:36outskirts or perhaps maybe even a location that's far from it.
09:40What about Basra and Petra being the exact place of protection?
09:45Well in Jeremiah chapter 49, starting verse 22, we read, Behold, he shall come up and
09:52fly like an eagle, will spread his wings over Basra, the heart of the mighty men of Edom
09:57in that day will be like the heart of a woman in birth pangs.
10:01So we see eagle's wings, and that's what we read in Revelation 12, that the church will
10:07be protected that way.
10:09And also in Micah chapter 2, verse 12, we read, I surely gather you, O Jacob, all of
10:15you, and I'll bring you together the remnant of Israel.
10:19Together I do set a flock of Basra in a drove in the midst of his pasture.
10:25It makes noise because of the man.
10:27So we see some possible connections to Basra, but right now I'm not thinking it's going
10:34to be there, but I haven't eliminated because it's in the right general place.
10:38And I've also long wondered about if Petra could be the actual place.
10:42One of the reasons is that the carved part is actually like most important or one of
10:48the most important tourist destinations in Jordan.
10:51So were they going to want us to go there?
10:56On the other hand, there are caves there, and there's indications that we're going to
11:01be protected in caves, but there are also caves near Petra outside of the carved area
11:06as well.
11:07It's also possible, maybe the true Christians, Philadelphia Christians are going to stay
11:12in Petra for a time and then go elsewhere.
11:14That's something I've written about before as well.
11:18You've mentioned a group you refer to as Philadelphia Christians several times.
11:23Tell us a little bit more about the Philadelphia Christians.
11:26Well in the New Testament, it shows not all Christians are going to be physical protection.
11:33One specific group that is promised protection for the great tribulation is found in the
11:39book of Revelation talking about the Philadelphia Christians, Revelation chapter three, starting
11:43in verse seven, Jesus said, and to the church in Philadelphia, right?
11:49These things says he who is holy, he who is true, he who has a key of David, he who opens
11:53and no one shuts and shuts and no one opens.
11:56I know your works.
11:57I set before you an open door and no one can shut it for you have a little strength.
12:01You kept my word, did not denied my name.
12:04Indeed, I'll make those who are the synagogue of Satan who said they are Jews, but are not.
12:09Indeed, I'll make them to come worship before your feet and to know that I've loved you
12:14because you've kept my command to persevere.
12:16I will also keep you for the hour of trial, which will come upon the whole world to test
12:21those who dwell on the earth in this hour of trial we're talking about begins with the
12:25great tribulation.
12:28There are Christians then that are not Philadelphian Christians?
12:33Yes.
12:35Revelation chapter two and three, there's different churches that Jesus speaks to.
12:38He warns three of them that they're going to have problems with the great tribulation
12:43or not knowing what's going to happen.
12:47So there's other groups there, but specifically, I'm going to reread Revelation 12, verse 17,
12:53and a dragon was enraged with a woman, this is the Philadelphian portion of the church,
12:58and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring.
13:02These are Christians.
13:03We know they're Christians.
13:04Why?
13:05Because they keep the commandments of God and they have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
13:10So there are two groups of end time Christians, one group that's protected, the other that's
13:15not.
13:16And Revelation three tells us which group gets protected.
13:20Now as far as where this place is, as I mentioned before, when you look at where it's not, it's
13:25not the coast land, which means they don't go to the west.
13:28It's not up north.
13:30And when you look at the location of the Bible points to, we're talking about somewhere south
13:36or east or southeast of Israel or Jerusalem, and that points to a place in Jordan.
13:43It's most likely going to be a place in Jordan, could be near Petra, could be Petra, could
13:47be Gaza or near that.
13:51But the reality is there is a place of protection for the Philadelphian Christians.
13:55The Bible specifically says that.
13:58So don't just think because you're a Christian, you've got automatic protection.
14:01You're going to want to be a Philadelphian Christian to be protected from what's about
14:05to happen.
14:06Thank you, Dr. Thiel.
14:08For more interviews with Dr. Thiel, in addition to written as well as audio articles, visit
14:13our website at biblenewsprophecy.net.
14:16This is Steve Dupuy for the Bible News Prophecy Program.
14:20Over.