24.Hours.In.Police.Custody.S00E06.Black.Widow.Part.2
24.Hours.In.Police.Custody.S00E06.Black.Widow.Part.2
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00:00How easy is it to get in contact with somebody that can make someone disappear?
00:11Why, who do you want to disappear?
00:15My ex-husband.
00:24How did you meet her?
00:26My dating site. I think in the early days she genuinely cared for me.
00:31But I think she had an ulterior motive now.
00:34A bloke by the name of Graham Wall is in a relationship with a girl by the name of Victoria Breeden.
00:40Rightly or wrongly I left my phone in her living room, under the stairs, with her voicemail recording.
00:47I know where he lives.
00:49Right, okay.
00:50Can you pay?
00:51What?
00:52Yeah, well I'm not going to write it down, am I?
00:56She walked into Ely police station.
00:59At this moment in time I'm placing you under arrest.
01:02Sorry?
01:03I'm placing you under arrest for the offence of conspiracy to commit murder.
01:08And next thing you know she's literally on the floor, wouldn't get up.
01:14This is Earl Gurner. He's the male in the recording who she's asking to disappear, her first husband.
01:20She's some random bird he stalked off the internet.
01:23It was a joke, it wasn't serious.
01:25I didn't want him to go and do anything.
01:27I think she is capable of getting somebody to do it.
01:31I heard my car alarm go off at half past four in the morning and my car was on fire.
01:37They then traced that to Victoria's husband at the time, Wayne.
01:41Wayne Wood subsequently stood trial for that and sentenced to seven years.
01:47So now she's saying that she's got a poor back, that she goes up hospital.
01:52She was up at hospital for quite a while and the hospital were happy to release her.
01:56They've checked her over, they say there's not a lot wrong with her.
02:02She's here.
02:04She's here.
02:17This is your opportunity to talk to me.
02:19They have lifted prints, are they going to be yours?
02:22Every minute that's taken away is evidence you're losing.
02:34You all right?
02:39You cold?
02:40No, I just feel sick.
02:42How are you?
02:44Let us know if you're going to be sick.
02:46Why don't you have a pop in, see if we've got a vomit bowl in the medic room.
02:51Yeah, we'll sort that out in a second.
02:53Yeah.
03:01That's interesting, that's interesting, very interesting.
03:05So we think she might have Munchausen's.
03:07Whether that's particularly true or not is another matter, isn't it?
03:10Nice one, cheers for your help.
03:13Right, she might have Munchausen's.
03:16It's where you pretend to have all sorts of illnesses, isn't it?
03:19You feign an illness, an injury for attention.
03:22But I don't think she's ever actually been diagnosed with that.
03:28Is there anything else going on that I need to be aware of?
03:30Just pain.
03:31Pain where?
03:33My back, I mean.
03:34Is that new pain?
03:36I don't know.
03:38Well, I guess I might.
03:41OK.
03:42I've got a condition, but I don't have any basic ones.
03:46OK.
03:48If you would like to perambulate, C15 is that way.
03:57Under arrest for conspiracy to murder...
04:03..Earl Gurnon is allowed a phone call.
04:06He chooses to speak to his mother.
04:10Conspiracy to murder.
04:12It's taken me half a day since about two o'clock this afternoon
04:15to find out what the word conspiracy actually meant.
04:17It means talk about or plan.
04:20No, it's not just an allegation, there's actually been audio of it.
04:23It's some other bird that I met on the internet being weird.
04:26Cos it seems like everybody tries to manipulate me
04:29and tell me what to do in my life, doesn't they?
04:31Cos everybody knows I'm a little bit fit.
04:34Someone has tried taking advantage of me
04:36and getting me to do things that I wouldn't want to do anyway.
04:40I think I'm in a shitload of trouble, man, for doing nothing.
04:44All right, Mum, bye.
04:49He's been very stressed and very tumourised.
04:53And...and upset.
04:58It makes me feel very, very sad, indeed.
05:01Cos a lot of women, a lot of people take my son the wrong way.
05:06They think that he's rude, he's arrogant, etc, etc.
05:09He's not... He suffers without a father.
05:12He suffers with ADHD and mild anger issues.
05:19My son has always wanted people to like him.
05:23Because ADHD is a very lonely place to be.
05:29It is.
05:33He will pacify people.
05:35And that's what he did that night that he went to that lady's address.
05:42I know that he's not capable of ever murdering anybody in his life.
05:47My son has been used.
05:51I'm very angry with this woman.
05:53If I was to meet her in person, I'd feel that I'd strike her.
05:57But I know I must not do that.
06:01Women that are in love are capable of being very, very dangerous.
06:13Police had no choice
06:15but to allow Victoria Breedon to go to hospital
06:18after she complained of severe back pain.
06:22Now being deemed fit for interview,
06:24detectives want to question her about the arson attack
06:27made on her first husband, Rob Parks.
06:30Well, those are photographs from the file that we got from the police.
06:34It's a photo of Victoria.
06:36It's a photo of Victoria.
06:38And Rob Parks.
06:40Well, those are photographs from the file that we got yesterday.
06:43Yeah, from Tons Island.
06:44It's a horrendous night, isn't it?
06:46Yeah. The car's absolutely destroyed.
06:49The investigation back then attributed it to Wayne Wood.
06:54They didn't miss about there, did they?
06:56When Wayne set fire to the car on the driveway,
07:00he wished he'd never married her.
07:03I think the clever people get other people to commit crimes for them.
07:15She goes for men, but she goes for certain types of men.
07:27The men have to be vulnerable
07:29so they believe what she's telling them.
07:33I think she's looking for someone that she thinks would say yes.
07:38She's very careful in her selection.
07:52Right, Victoria.
07:54We spoke to Rob and he gave us a statement about some of the background
07:58and he says that in 2014, and I know it's been tried,
08:01that the car blew up on his driveway
08:03and blew the windows out in his house with him inside it, OK?
08:06And that's what Wayne did and that's what you were arrested for.
08:10She told me that her ex-husband, that he was molesting the children.
08:18And that kind of made me see red a little bit.
08:23There is no way I knew what was going on.
08:26If I had, I would have stopped it.
08:29She was twisting my mental health against me.
08:33She'd said that I was abusive, physically, mentally.
08:37I'd taken all her money off her.
08:40I've done nothing for that.
08:44Looking back onto it, I'm glad I'm not with her no more.
08:50And I feel sorry for anybody that's got involved with her or will do in the future.
08:57I think she thinks she's smarter than everyone.
09:00Because she has been.
09:02What she does works.
09:27It's the slightest oneness, isn't it?
09:31What I'm going to do is I'm going to pull you in backwards, OK?
09:35It looks like she's approaching vulnerable men,
09:38men with mental health issues, who may have a violent criminal history as well.
09:42Well, she's not choosing random men.
09:44She isn't choosing random men. She's choosing ones that are useful to her.
09:47Exactly. We know that Wayne would have PTSD or some form of mental health.
09:51Graham, with the best will in the world, probably has some.
09:54But vulnerable.
09:55And then Earl Gurnon probably has some mental health issues.
10:03I pretty much openly tell them that I've got learning difficulties and things like that,
10:07and I'm autistic.
10:14She seemed very intelligent to me.
10:17She used to work for the NHS. She's got degrees.
10:21You know, I wanted to go out and get another girl, basically.
10:25So I thought I'd went online dating.
10:28It didn't quite work that way, did it?
10:32She's quite a tricky customer.
10:35She'll be in a wheelchair.
10:38She talks quite quietly, quite slowly.
10:41It's always at the same victim, yeah.
10:43It's all basically aimed at Rob Parks, who's her first husband,
10:47who she's got a child with, who she wants back.
10:49I mean, she's going to go down the line, I think, that she didn't mean it.
10:53The recording's just a silly, drunken conversation.
10:58With their current enquiries concluded, police are ready to charge Victoria Breeden.
11:08But she is refusing to leave her cell.
11:11All right, Victoria, we've been to CPS with the evidence we've got,
11:14and they've come back with authorising to charge you with a criminal offence.
11:18OK? Which I've now got to read out to you.
11:21On the 2nd of the 10th, 2019, at Ely in the county of Cambridgeshire,
11:24conspired together with Earl Gurnan to murder Rob Parks.
11:28Are you all right under there?
11:34Both suspects are charged.
11:37Earl Gurnan is released on bail.
11:42Victoria Breeden is remanded to prison.
11:49There's no definite that she'll be found guilty at court,
11:53and there's always a possibility a jury will find her not guilty.
11:59The police can't use the arson attack as evidence in court.
12:03So to strengthen their case,
12:05they speak to Victoria Breeden's previous partners.
12:08If they reveal anything incriminating,
12:10they will need to question her again to get her side of the story.
12:14They will need to question her again to get her side of the story.
12:18Russell, we need to try and track him down.
12:21He looks, from what we know of the issues around 2014,
12:25that he might be within Bedfordshire, and Bedfordshire may have spoken to him.
12:28Do we get any intelligence back from them around him?
12:31So the most recent address they've got is the one he shared with Victoria.
12:36Might be worth a doorknock there. I wonder what he's got to tell us.
12:40My name's Louisa, I'm a police officer with the Cambridgeshire Police.
12:43Hi there. I'm with Detective Sajid Bajor, and we're just in Bedford now.
12:50Russell, so how long have you actually been with Victoria?
12:53Five and a year. I met her in... I've been living.
12:57The reason I'm here, mate, is Victoria's been arrested
13:00for conspiracy to commit a murder, the CPS agreed to charge her.
13:03She's remanded at the moment in prison.
13:05She is in prison? She is in prison, yeah.
13:07She tried to get out, but we got an application to say no,
13:10and the judge said, no, you're not leaving.
13:12She's trying to get somebody to hurt Rob, basically get Rob to disappear.
13:17Did she ever ask you to do anything to him, or even suggest it?
13:20No, not that I remember. In your presence at all? No.
13:23OK, that's fine.
13:24We do know that she attempted to get...
13:29When she was fully involved with Wayne and him,
13:32still at the Ministry of Defence, we know that they approached colleagues
13:36in Germany to take Rob out.
13:41I think he tried to fill the gaps to support
13:44that this is a course of conduct, it's not just a one-off.
13:48She seems to have quite a number of boyfriends and men throughout her life.
13:51Friends she can use, yeah. Yeah.
13:53That's what she does.
13:54She won't get her own hands dirty,
13:56she'll always try and get other people to do stuff for her.
13:59As soon as you find out about Wayne Wood and that arson,
14:04and then Graham, there's too big a time gap
14:08for her not to have asked someone else.
14:11So there's got to be people in the middle that just haven't said anything.
14:16We've had some intelligence that was on BED's police system,
14:20which said that Victoria was approaching soldiers whilst in Germany.
14:25The one that she's named or she's approached is an Andrew Peebles
14:30and is happy to give us a statement.
14:34The first time I met them,
14:36I'd seen a British car broken down on the side of the road,
14:39so I thought, I'll stop and help them.
14:42So I stopped.
14:44Basically, they were telling us about her ex,
14:47saying that he was a paedophile, all that sort of stuff.
14:50Saying stuff about how she wants her kid back and everything like that.
14:54And then they says to me, she says,
14:59If I can get you a gun, would you do it for us?
15:02And I was just like, these have got to be having a laugh.
15:06And what's Wayne doing when all this is going on?
15:09He's just sitting in the car.
15:11He's just listening to it? Just listening to it, yeah.
15:14He's basically saying that he'd do anything for her.
15:18When I was in Germany,
15:20she did ask about how easy it is to get weapons from the army.
15:24Andrew Peebles, there's a name that's figured in this enquirer,
15:27was he a friend of yours in the army?
15:29No, no, he was part-time camp, but he was in a different regiment.
15:33OK.
15:34And he was, I'd say, he saw the English registration bloke
15:37come down on the autobahn, and he just stopped to help out.
15:41OK.
15:42Can I mention anything about Hamish?
15:44Hamish? Hamish.
15:46Yeah.
15:47One day, you had a phone call from him saying,
15:50do you want a pair of us to go around to have a coffee with him
15:53and just have a chat?
15:54And he said, he was chatting away, he says,
15:56Victoria had come up to him, he says,
15:58do you know anybody who can do something to...
16:01What was it?
16:02Rob? Yeah.
16:03Where's Hamish?
16:04He used to live on the brink.
16:05Whether he's still there now, I don't know.
16:07What is his surname? His own clue.
16:12Hiya, little Hamish, you all right?
16:14Have you got one second to talk?
16:21I think it was outside the port, on the side,
16:24and she basically said, it was along the lines of,
16:26do you know people back in Scotland who are still nutters?
16:28And I was like, yeah.
16:29I said, they're nutters.
16:30Really, really strange people.
16:32And then she went on and she said,
16:34my ex-husband stopped me from seeing the kids,
16:36he's made up stories about me.
16:37I can get a bit of money if you know somebody who can sort them out.
16:39And I just thought, that's the problem.
16:41What did you think she meant, saw him out?
16:43There was definitely an intent to seriously do harm to him.
16:45Did she say how much money it was? £5,000.
16:47What you've just said is quite significant,
16:49so I really appreciate your time and help, Hamish, mate.
16:51We'll leave you be.
16:54That is worth the trip for me.
16:58It's stacking up quite nicely, really, isn't it?
17:00On the basis of all that, we're going to produce her.
17:02We'll get that jacked up.
17:03Yeah, we're going to have to.
17:06I think she wants him dead.
17:07I think she might well do.
17:15Sorry for the short notice,
17:16but we're going to produce Victoria Breedon
17:19from Peterborough Prison to Thorpe Wood
17:21to interview her today about some fresh offences.
17:24You need to pull yourself forward and you need to use your own strength
17:27because we're in a prone position, so it's going to hurt our backs.
17:30So use the handle there because that handle will stay solid.
17:35There we go, right, chairs away.
17:38So I'm just making you aware that she'll probably need
17:41some representation at Thorpe Wood at some point today.
17:44It's going to be some counts of solicitation to murder.
17:47Cheers, bye.
17:57Right, we'd better hit the road, mate, haven't we?
17:59Fingers crossed.
18:02The records that we got from Thames Valley,
18:05she was bailed eight times
18:10because she kept getting medical note,
18:13self-admitted to hospital, all sorts of stuff.
18:17And in one of their statements,
18:19they describe her as a Walter Mitty character.
18:23That's an old-fashioned saying, but, yeah.
18:25It's a character and a character and a character and a character.
18:28And who is she actually? Yeah.
18:30And I think that's what she's thinking, sat in that cell.
18:34I think you're right.
18:35I think she's just generally thinking,
18:38Yeah, cos people either believe her act or can't disprove it.
18:45Even a doctor can't. No, they can't.
18:47Cos you've got to err on the side of caution just in case, haven't you?
18:50That is so difficult for this investigation.
18:53She knows exactly what she's doing.
18:56We just need to play the game better. Yeah.
19:01She had an injection in her back and she played on it for five weeks.
19:07Took her to the clinic at Cambridge
19:09and, you know, then we stop outside the outpatients
19:13and she struggles to get out of the car.
19:15And a couple of times she's had a wheelchair to get in there, you know.
19:19I just think, what have we got?
19:21I know you're saying about your asthma,
19:23but they've said to us, they've given us a handover,
19:25that everything should be very straightforward.
19:28And medically, there's no reason why you can't come here
19:33and there's nothing that should cause any issues, OK?
19:36Otherwise we simply wouldn't do it.
19:38Swing your bum around for us.
19:41We went to a hotel in Keithley.
19:44She was fuming, there was no lift.
19:47And she got the big old pushchair that we had
19:50and went to carry it upstairs with a suitcase.
19:53And I said, hang on a minute, leave them at the bottom, I'll bring them up.
19:56I said, otherwise you'll be complaining your back hurts.
19:58No, I can manage. And she trotted upstairs with them.
20:02I think it's just that she makes such a song and a dance
20:05that they have to believe what she says.
20:11Hello there. Hello.
20:13Defence, please.
20:15It's alleged that Miss Breeden has looked to seek services
20:19of other people to commit murder.
20:25OK, from what my colleagues explained to me,
20:27I'm going to authorise you to come in.
20:29From what my colleagues explained to me,
20:31I'm going to authorise you detention so that you can be questioned, OK?
20:35You understand?
20:37You don't understand. What don't you understand?
20:42You've been arrested on suspicion of solicitation to commit murder.
20:48Do you understand what that means?
20:54I'm authorising you to remain here
20:56and I'm going to speak to you on interview.
20:59I have my inhaler now, please.
21:02Your inhaler?
21:04OK, you're breathing fine at the moment.
21:07My chest is tight.
21:09We can sort something out, I'm sure.
21:12OK, what's your name, please?
21:14She's sat in the wheelchair in the custody,
21:16saying she doesn't know why she's here,
21:18she doesn't know anything about anything,
21:20she doesn't understand what's going on.
21:22She needs an appropriate adult.
21:26What's next?
21:28She'll have polio by the end of the week or something, won't she?
21:33Any foods you can't eat?
21:36Anything with gluten.
21:38So gluten-free, which limits our selection quite a lot.
21:45Victoria Breedon is assigned an appropriate adult
21:48to safeguard her during the police interview.
21:52I wouldn't cope with a normal NHS chair.
22:00You look different in your photo.
22:02Yeah.
22:04At least I don't look like Murray Hindley anymore.
22:07I don't look like a serial killer.
22:11She said she can't have gluten.
22:13Gluten, so she can have...
22:15Pillow, pillow rice.
22:17She said she wants a sandwich.
22:19No, no, she's not having a sandwich.
22:21If she's gluten-free, she will have gluten-free food.
22:24She's salt.
22:26She'll say she's ill.
22:28But she makes all sorts of allegations.
22:30Yeah, I'm not...
22:32Yeah, no, she's, she's...
22:34I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to lie.
22:36I'm not going to lie.
22:38Yeah, no, she's, she's not...
22:40No, she's not having this.
22:42She can have a gluten-free meal.
22:45Or nothing. It's her choice.
22:49Hello.
22:50This is the gluten-free meal that I'm offered.
22:53It's got beef in it.
22:55You don't eat meat?
22:57Oh, right. Are you veggie?
22:59Oh, right. Right.
23:01So that's it.
23:03OK, well, I've generally offered everything we have.
23:06If you are celiac, it's too much of a risk
23:09to have the fillings contaminated by gluten.
23:12Can you have anything spicy?
23:15No? Right, OK.
23:17I'll give you a minute.
23:22I don't know if this is gluten-free either, but I really don't care.
23:25Just don't say anything.
23:32Yeah, I think when some people come into custody,
23:34they want to keep that element of control as much as they can.
23:39I can imagine that someone might enjoy disrupting the process.
23:44So, we're going to go and get her some food.
23:47OK, OK. I'll keep my, bite my tongue.
23:50Yeah, we've sent an officer now, so, you know.
23:54I think anyone could look at those small actions
23:58and think they don't add up to much,
24:00when in reality, she just sees it as getting what she wants.
24:04A game or a battle to her, that's her life.
24:08I was instructed vegan and gluten-free, so I did my best.
24:11You did, yeah. Spot on.
24:13I'm quite impressed with mine.
24:15Has this got a spoon in it or anything? No.
24:19Well, while she's waiting for it to get done,
24:21she might as well sit in there and eat the food.
24:23Chase the sweet corn around.
24:26I have some gluten-free vegan food.
24:31Thank you so much.
24:33Well, that's got to be nothing, right?
24:35We've got some wraps as well, so...
24:39Victoria definitely fights back.
24:43In any way she knows how.
24:56Mind your hands.
24:58So, Sarah's here.
25:00It's just whether we'll get her in an interview before...
25:03Four o'clock this afternoon? Yeah.
25:05Well, let's just sit in here for a minute.
25:09Thank you. You're all right.
25:12You know, I'm in for everything.
25:14I can't wait to be home.
25:19You have absolutely no idea.
25:21He doesn't deserve a mum in prison. I'd rather be dead.
25:24Don't say that. Never say that.
25:28OK, do you want to do a consultation and I'll get this case going?
25:32Right, I've got to sort that out.
25:35In advance of Victoria Breedon's interview,
25:38officers disclose their new evidence to her solicitor.
25:42You give disclosure, they have consultation,
25:44you go into interview.
25:46There's not...
25:48There's not really any delays in between that process.
25:53Would it be all right to go down to that room to have a consultation?
25:56I don't see why not.
25:58So we're going to go down there. See you in a minute.
26:00All right.
26:04Victoria Breedon now knows the strength of the evidence
26:07in the case against her.
26:09That went OK, and she asked if we got statements from everyone
26:13and who they are, and I've just said we've got statements from everyone.
26:16A number of them, and she asked what the statements were.
26:19I said I'd cover that in the interview, obviously.
26:22But it's probably along the same lines of her trying to arrange
26:25to hurt Rob Parks and left it at that.
26:31But before the detectives can put their evidence to her,
26:34she asks to see a health care practitioner.
26:39What happens if it's too painful to keep going?
26:42You'd have to speak to your GP.
26:44You'd have to speak to your solicitor.
26:46You know your pain, really.
26:48So...
26:50The problem that we have is the medication,
26:55they haven't sent it boxed and labelled.
26:57So what I can do...
26:59Do you require that specific...
27:01Are you feeling sick at the minute?
27:03I can only give you paracetamol.
27:06That's all I've got. I've got nothing stronger.
27:09I'm in no fit state to do anything without pain relief.
27:14Would you rather this is set up for tomorrow, another day,
27:17when they bring your pain relief and everything?
27:20Can we do that?
27:22Let me see if it's a possibility.
27:25I'm so sorry.
27:27It's all right.
27:29Oh, here we go.
27:31Ooh, they're ready. Let's do it.
27:38What time do you normally have your pain relief at prison?
27:4112 o'clock.
27:43That's why I was asking for it.
27:45So it's not as and when you take it regularly?
27:49The issue is that she's in a lot of pain.
27:51She's in a lot of pain?
27:53Yes.
27:55And she would therefore have difficulties in going ahead and into you.
28:00So the medic said she can have them as is now.
28:03Yeah.
28:05But really she should have the correct medication to do her pain relief.
28:08So would it be possible to rearrange this?
28:12The only thing the HDP can offer is paracetamol.
28:15I'll speak to the prison.
28:17I'll try and be as quick as I can and let you know then.
28:24Not the easiest thing would be for somebody to go and get it
28:27only when the prison's 10 minutes away.
28:31I don't think they're allowed to.
28:33It's a controlled drug, so two people have to sign it off.
28:39I might just lose my shit big time in a minute.
28:42And I'm not joking.
28:44What's happening now?
28:46Right, the next stage of this saga
28:48is she's saying that she needs her pain relief for her back pain.
28:52The prison have not given her that medication when she was produced.
28:56OK? I'm going to ring the prison now
28:59and find out when she should have her pain relief.
29:02She's been offered medical care
29:04and we've even gone out and bought her the food.
29:07I think we should carry on.
29:09We need to do the same interview that we always planned on doing.
29:13And this is, like, key stuff.
29:15We can't have this interview chucked out.
29:20I've never... In all my career, I've never experienced anything like this.
29:27Someone might want to delay interview following consultation
29:32because if they think we've got evidence,
29:35it allows them time to think about what they're going to say in interview.
29:39She bides herself time, time to think.
29:45In my six years, I can't think of a case
29:50where someone's managed to delay after disclosure.
29:55I think Victoria is the most clever criminal I've come across,
30:00not necessarily in terms of the offence that she's committing,
30:04but how she plays the system.
30:06Hello. We've produced a Victoria Breedon from your establishment
30:10this morning and brought her here to Thorpe Ward.
30:12She is quite a difficult individual.
30:14She's presenting with all sorts of medical issues
30:16and now she's saying she's come without the relevant medication
30:19and her solicitor's now saying she doesn't believe...
30:22Without taking that, she's not well enough to be interviewed.
30:25Even... So she wouldn't... Because she's here now,
30:28we're ready to interview her at 3.30 and get her back,
30:31so she wouldn't be suffering anything medically,
30:34an excruciating pain by us keeping her here and interviewing her
30:37if she doesn't take that medication.
30:39Right, that answers my question. That's brilliant.
30:41Thanks a lot, mate. Appreciate that. Cheers. Bye.
30:44They're saying she's only been on it a short length of time
30:47and she would not be in excruciating pain
30:49or not able to know what's going on.
30:51They wouldn't be concerned about not giving it to her at all
30:54and she can have it when she gets back to the prison.
30:56It's just ludicrous. It puts us in a ludicrous position.
30:59If you are genuinely in a lot of pain, it would have an effect.
31:03It would. But this is a completely different situation.
31:07She would have known what time she was going to say about needing food.
31:10She knows this the whole way along, to give her time to think.
31:14We're in the hands of the HCP now.
31:16If she says, yes, we're moving, if she says no, she'll have to go back.
31:22I know this sounds really, really stupid, but bear with me.
31:26Does it help if you put your weight onto your other side?
31:29Oh, no.
31:41Despite guidance from the prison that another dose of painkillers
31:44is not necessary, the health care practitioner decides
31:48Victoria Breedon is not fit for interview without further pain relief.
31:52I think we might have to admit defeat.
31:54Cheers, mate. Bye. Bye.
31:57HCP is saying she's asked her numerous times,
31:59even if she takes the drugs, can she still stop the interview
32:02if she says she's in pain?
32:04She's won. She's won, yeah.
32:08Full-on ginger rage.
32:13Now I need to think logically.
32:15The police officer just told me that you will be going back to prison
32:18very soon, all right? So you're not going to be interviewed, OK?
32:21OK.
32:33My colleagues are continuing with their inquiries.
32:36Take it you want to take your answer with you.
32:46Tara manipulates.
32:49She manipulates the situation.
32:52If she can get something for nothing, she'll do it.
32:55If she can con somebody out of something, she'll do it.
33:01Five weeks into the relationship, she said,
33:03well, I think we need to start talking about making wills.
33:06And I said, well, we've only been together five weeks.
33:10The alarm bell started to ring in my head.
33:13But you see, Victoria is very passionate about money.
33:18She's obsessed with money.
33:23And I remember after that discussion over the will,
33:25she'd asked me to hang these curtains and they were in the wardrobe,
33:28so I looked in the wardrobe and I couldn't find them,
33:30so then I looked in the wardrobe drawer,
33:32and as I opened the drawer, I couldn't believe my eyes.
33:35I messaged her and I said, I've found your stash.
33:43MUSIC PLAYS
33:49Hello, Graeme, it's Mike Barnshaw-Diaz from Parkside in Cambridge.
33:52You mentioned some messages.
33:54Would you fold them on in whatever form you can, mate?
33:56I'd really like to see these messages.
34:02I've got a message from Graeme.
34:04He's shown me a picture of some money that he says was at Victoria's house.
34:08Any good? That's interesting.
34:12Shit!
34:14That's a lot of money.
34:18Where is that in her house?
34:24So the top drawer of the wardrobe, I opened that,
34:28and as I opened it, it jammed slightly on the shelf above it,
34:36and one of these lids had got caught and the lid pulled off.
34:41As I pulled the drawer open.
34:43Anyway, I put it all back and I messaged her,
34:46and I said, we need to talk.
34:48We got on about this money, I said, come on,
34:50it's not normal to have £23,500,
34:53cos that's how much was there originally, stashed in your house.
34:56I have no idea where it's come from.
34:58I've got no involvement with that.
35:00She was putting some into a bank account and she was using it for spending.
35:06She loves money, doesn't she?
35:08Well, we all like it.
35:12There are now four additional counts of solicitation to murder
35:16which need to be put to Victoria Breeden.
35:20They bring her back into custody for questioning.
35:26Have you got any injuries?
35:28What are those?
35:30My back and my leg.
35:32And what is the injury to your back?
35:34Slipped disc.
35:36OK, so you've got a slipped disc and your leg.
35:39Is that the only injuries?
35:50Chronologically, then, we're going to go...
35:52Wayne, Peebles.
35:55She says, if I can get you a gun, would you do it for us?
36:00I love Hamish's statement. It's absolutely damning.
36:03I can get a bit of money if you know somebody who'd sort them out.
36:07There is definitely an intent to say to do harm to them.
36:10Whoa!
36:11A great one.
36:13She said, you must know somebody.
36:15You must know somebody who can get rid of him.
36:17And then she said to me...
36:19If you can't do that, you're no use to me.
36:23The medic is quite happy, as you stand right now,
36:26that you're fit to be interviewed, OK, and fit to be with us.
36:29And we'll sort through this as we go along.
36:31All right?
36:33Right, let's go.
36:36Are you all right leaving, yeah?
36:38Yeah.
36:39Right, here we go.
36:41The lid's on properly, we've tested it.
36:43Get the air out.
36:45Some of the air's out, yeah.
36:47Do we have a Bible?
36:49A Bible?
36:55What can you tell me about a man called Andrew Peebles?
37:01No-one at all.
37:03So, he describes, one Friday afternoon,
37:06I was driving along in Germany
37:08and noticed a Nissan broken down at the side of the road.
37:12I then assisted in towing the vehicle back to base.
37:15Andrew said you spoke about your ex.
37:18At any point during the conversation with Andrew,
37:22did you enquire as to whether he could kill your ex-husband?
37:28He says you did.
37:31He says you asked him to kill him.
37:37It gets a bit more specific.
37:39Did you say to him that you would get him a gun
37:42and give him whatever money he wanted in order to kill your ex?
37:49Now we're talking about guns and money.
37:54How much money did you offer?
38:00Because we've spoken to Wayne and he remembers Andrew Peebles.
38:03He remembers him.
38:05Then he's a friend of Wayne's. I've not met him.
38:10You're quite a dangerous woman, aren't you, Miss Breedon?
38:16Dangerous enough that you try repeatedly to ask men to harm Rob.
38:23I've never wanted him harmed.
38:25I've never had conversations about that, no.
38:28That recording was just the icing on the cake, wasn't it?
38:31Because we just caught you that time.
38:33But you have been doing this for years.
38:51OK, well, thanks for coming.
38:53This is briefing in relation to Operation Booner.
38:56We've had information through Graham Wall
38:58that there was a large amount of cash in the address
39:01around about the time that he was in a relationship with her,
39:04and that's the picture he's given to us.
39:06He believes there was somewhere in the region of £18,000 in cash
39:10in this SMA tin.
39:11We do not know what's happened to that money.
39:13And obviously that money there is good evidence
39:16that she had access to the funds to commit the offence
39:19for which she was talking to Earl about.
39:22So Louisa obtained a search warrant to enter Victoria's premises
39:27and to conduct a search in relation to finding that cash.
39:36Police? Anyone in here make yourself known?
39:39Scout up.
39:45Where did you live when Wayne left the army?
39:49It was near...near the embankment.
39:53Does the name Hamish mean anything to you?
39:57No, sorry.
40:03In an interview, she said she didn't know him,
40:06but in her phone book dated handily, September 2015,
40:11there's Hamish's number.
40:14I'll just read through a conversation,
40:16and hopefully that will jog your memory.
40:18So Hamish said,
40:19for a couple of weeks everything was OK
40:21and Wayne and Vicky seemed really nice.
40:23On one occasion, she came round to the boat one night.
40:26I was stood in the kitchen making coffee
40:28and she made a comment that had been so helpful
40:30and I was such a nice person.
40:32He said,
40:34you then said,
40:35wouldn't do me a favour, would you?
40:38Will you sort out my ex-husband?
40:40He's a bastard.
40:41Do you know people back in Scotland who are still nutters?
40:46That doesn't sound like anything I would ever say.
40:49At which point you've said,
40:51I can get a bit of money
40:53if you know someone who can sort him out.
40:56I've never had that conversation.
40:58We're mentioning money again.
41:06Hamish said you offered him £5,000.
41:10I've never had that conversation, no.
41:14No.
41:15£5,000.
41:17I'm sorry, I have to go and run.
41:19Do you have £5,000?
41:21No.
41:22Where was it?
41:24It was in this bag.
41:26It looks like paper, it looks like money.
41:30OK, go for it.
41:32OK.
41:42Yes.
41:44That is literally bursting at the seams, isn't it?
41:46I would just leave that.
41:48Seal it and we'll seize it.
41:54Well done.
41:56And I've got no further questions.
41:59So, interview stopped at 18.06.
42:30We have a total of £18,690.
42:36With all their enquiries complete,
42:38the police asked the CPS to approve charges on all counts.
42:44Thank you very much for your decision.
42:46Cheers. Bye.
42:52Phew!
42:53Well done.
42:56Phew!
42:58Well done, guys.
43:00Well done, guys.
43:02Good day's work.
43:04I'm pleased for Rob and for Wayne and for Graham
43:09that we managed to get her.
43:13She'd made all of these people feel like
43:16what was reality wasn't happening.
43:19She'd made them feel like they were imagining it.
43:22She'd twisted and turned the system so much in her favour
43:27that all of these punishments
43:29that should have come before this didn't happen.
43:35And it was our job,
43:37because we were lucky to have the evidence at that point,
43:42to make sure that we got the charge on that occasion.
43:47And if we hadn't have done,
43:49I think she'd have continued to make Rob's life in particular
43:53quite difficult.
43:55I want to show to my daughter
43:57that not everybody is going to be like Victoria.
44:00But you should trust people.
44:02I feel sad that my daughter's mother
44:07has given that to her.
44:10It's not something that I would want to put on anybody.
44:13And all these other guys, I feel for them, I really do,
44:16because I've been there and I know what they've been through
44:19and I know what it's like.
44:21Too many people got hurt.
44:23A lot of people that Victoria has influenced
44:27have not been as lucky as me.
44:32I go to places quite often when I have anxiety and things like that.
44:36Just need to get away from society and think, innit?
44:40I don't think I'll go on a date again, to be fair, no.
44:44Too many catfishes.
44:55It wasn't all bad, you know.
44:59It wasn't all bad.
45:07You still love her?
45:09Yeah.
45:13Yes, I do.
45:15I don't like her very much.
45:20Cos it's genuine love, you see.
45:23It's not just make-believe.
45:27More of you
45:31More of you
45:38I want more of you
45:47You're all I've ever dreamed of
45:53Darling, it's true
46:01Whether near to me or far
46:09No matter where you are
46:16No one kills my heart
46:22The way you do
46:31The way you do