24.Hours.In.Police.Custody.S00E02.Murder.In.The.Woods.Part.2
24.Hours.In.Police.Custody.S00E02.Murder.In.The.Woods.Part.2
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00:00There's a lot of blood around this male's neck and across his top.
00:09I don't want people in Huntington fearful they may get randomly stabbed in the neck.
00:22I'll tell you what I'm thinking, I'm thinking it feels like an execution.
00:27I'm just trying to get an idea of what Sam did really.
00:31Yeah, he sells weed.
00:36He's had a lot of trouble with people but it's all to do with drugs.
00:39Would anyone want to hurt Samuel? His answer was yeah, loads of people.
00:44Sam classed Jordan as his best friend.
00:48Quite up there drug dealer, Samuel apparently is quite scared of him,
00:52however they do hang out quite a bit.
00:57351, man under arrest.
01:01I've got a very violent man in custody, I don't want him walking the streets.
01:06Jordan, did you murder Sam Matulowski?
01:09No.
01:12We're lacking evidence, and that's a really uncomfortable place to be.
01:18There's blood family and then there's people that you adopt as family,
01:23and Sam was an adopted family.
01:26I knew him better than his brother, I knew him better than his mum.
01:31We were close, very close.
01:44This is your opportunity to talk to me.
01:47They have lifted prints, are they going to be yours?
01:50Every minute that's taken away is evidence you're losing.
02:11What the team want to be able to deliver to the victim's family
02:15is some sort of resolution that helps them deal
02:17with the most tragic event that could possibly befall anyone.
02:31None of us have experienced a homicide in our family,
02:34none of us can really understand what that's like.
02:37There were very few people that Sam wouldn't give a chance to.
02:43If Sam liked you, he liked you,
02:45and there were very few people that he didn't like.
02:49He was friendly, approachable.
02:58I have to help.
02:59I have to help.
03:01I have to help.
03:02I have to help.
03:03I have to help.
03:04I have to help.
03:05I have to help my other children to find a way to live with what's happened.
03:13And some days it feels like we're making progress.
03:21And then it could be something stupid.
03:25It could be a piece of music or a book or a film.
03:31And it just...
03:36..it hits us all over again.
04:01MUSIC CONTINUES
04:06Jordan Shepard is in prison for drugs offences,
04:10giving officers from the Major Crime Unit
04:12time to gather evidence against him for their murder investigation.
04:19Over 1,000 hours of CCTV footage is collected
04:23to try and piece together Sam Michalewski's movements
04:26in the days around his death.
04:28He's got a funny walk.
04:29He's got a hood.
04:30He's got a hood.
04:32Wait, you want 114? 114, yeah.
04:34How about 117?
04:35Yes, further down.
04:36Further down.
04:45We haven't seen that jacket, have we?
04:47No.
04:48That's a different jacket, I'm sure.
04:55Jordan Shepard's girlfriend, Kira,
04:57comes back to the station a third time.
05:00She has already given two different versions of her statement.
05:07I will, for the purpose of the tape, remind you again
05:11that this is your opportunity to tell us everything, OK?
05:15Not leave anything out.
05:16All detail is required.
05:19Everything I've said up until the Wednesday...
05:24Since Jordan came back, I answered the door.
05:26He had Monday clothes and I said,
05:27by Monday, he said, I've been out with Ashley White,
05:31looking about, looking at a crop,
05:33because he wanted to rob it in Holborn.
05:35And he said it's because he fell off a fence
05:38when he was with Ashley trying to find this very thing.
05:41OK.
05:48On the last account, she said he actually came back
05:51on the Wednesday, covered in mud.
05:54And she said, what have you been up to?
05:55And he says, I've gone out with Ashley White for the day.
05:58He wanted me to reckon robbing a crop, so a cannabis factory.
06:03So we went to see Ashley White.
06:05He was all right with us.
06:07He comes across, you get the impression,
06:09I think he's just come out of prison fairly recently for GBH.
06:13He comes across as a bit of a lad, bit of a boy.
06:15He started with Sam.
06:16He said, yeah, I know Sam.
06:18I bought cannabis off him regularly.
06:21We asked about Jordan.
06:22He said, yeah, Jordan's the same.
06:23Jordan's a mate.
06:24I buy cannabis off Jordan all the time.
06:27He was quite upfront and open about the kind of drugs
06:29and buying and selling.
06:29So you said, could you sign a statement for us?
06:31And can we have your phone?
06:32And he said, no, no.
06:33Yeah, he said, no, thank you, officer.
06:35OK.
06:36Right, so he's quite an interesting character there.
06:45Hypothesis number one, Jordan has gone and picked up Sam,
06:49gone and picked up Ashley White, gone off somewhere,
06:53and Sam's been murdered by those two.
06:56Hypothesis number two is that those three people have met up,
07:02but they've gone off to have a fight with somebody else,
07:04and they've lost the fight.
07:06A robbery.
07:07Straight robbery.
07:07They've lost it, and Sam's died as a consequence,
07:11and his two mates have bucked it off.
07:15Ashley White's dragged into the investigation by Jordan's girlfriend.
07:20So we immediately put them together in the events leading up to the execution,
07:25and then we start to look at him as an individual,
07:28exactly where was he during the course of that day.
07:36The search of Jordan Shepard's car uncovers a supermarket receipt
07:41from the night Sam was killed.
07:44And inside the yard, they found this receipt,
07:46which is a receipt for Tesco's at Huntingdon.
07:49On the 31st of January 2018, two minutes past five,
07:53there's two pairs of joggers and two sweat tops slash fleece jackets have been bought.
07:58Right, okay.
07:59Just seems a bit alien.
08:00Certainly in searching his property yesterday,
08:02the amount of designer clothing and expensive clothing that was there
08:05as to why this sort of purchase would have been made on that day.
08:08I suppose the only thing of interest, for me, the easiest option is to go to Tesco.
08:19So these two numpties here.
08:21Yeah.
08:21I've got a custody photo of Jordan.
08:24I think that's Jordan.
08:26Okay.
08:27What's that?
08:28They look down, don't they, look?
08:30That's Ashley's wife.
08:49Yeah, that looks like Ashley White, I can...
08:57This is pretty much what they've bought.
09:00Two of them and two of them.
09:01Both black.
09:02The cashier remembered because I coloured the cashier who served him a week ago.
09:06Obviously what we're thinking, he's bought these for the purpose of committing a crime.
09:09Yeah.
09:15Top team.
09:16Well done, Laura.
09:19Jordan Shepard and new suspect Ashley White
09:22are tracked together to Halfords earlier that afternoon.
09:38Detectives also focus on routes into the woods in Hitchingbrook Country Park,
09:43where Sam Michalewski's body was recovered.
09:49The next significant sighting we've got is three people walking down Lakeway.
10:01Two of them look like they've got all black clothing.
10:03And the other, the third guy has got some trainers with a flash of white on
10:08and a slightly more colourful hooded top.
10:10So I'm really, really comfortable that that's Jordan, Ashley and Sam.
10:19An associate of Ashley White's comes forward with information.
10:24Difficult to talk in his house.
10:26Gave him a reality check and said, look, you know, this is a murder at the end of the day.
10:30He says that Ash has confessed to him that it was him and Jordan who killed Sam.
10:36Gave him a reality check and said, look, you know, this is a murder at the end of the day.
10:40He says that Ash has confessed to him that it was him and Jordan who killed Sam.
10:50They told Sam that they were going to steal a grow or rob somebody up in Hitchingbrook woods,
10:56you know, steal someone's stash of cannabis.
10:59So he was, Sam was told to leave his phone.
11:03This was the route to get Sam into the woods.
11:06Then they've attacked him.
11:07Jordan stabbed him, he says, and he actually put his hand to his neck
11:11when he said he stabbed him, like that, he says.
11:14And he describes how Sam goes down, gets up again, then runs off.
11:18So they chase him.
11:19Then they start hitting him again and he goes down on the floor
11:23and that's when he says the second stab comes in and he does a twist in motion as well.
11:28So it's a stab and a twist and he bled out.
11:31Only the killer would know that.
11:36So...
11:47Officers are preparing to arrest Ashley White for murder.
11:56I didn't sleep very well.
11:57It's OK.
11:58I slept OK. I woke up a couple of times.
12:00I woke up at one and then I woke up at three.
12:05I'm arresting you on the suspicion of murder, Sam McCluskey.
12:27I'm going to go and fuck him, man.
12:29Get you all loosened up for me, Mr Pickpock.
12:32See you in a minute, Sam.
12:34If you're caught one-knocked on my head,
12:36I'll hit you straight in the fucking face, man.
12:38Ashley, calm down, Ashley.
12:40You're not head-butting anybody, man.
12:42You're a piece of shit.
12:44I'm trying to fuck you, you hear me?
12:57OK, the arrest offence, please.
13:00On the suspicion of murder.
13:06With Ashley White now in custody,
13:09Jordan Shepherd is re-arrested in prison
13:11and brought to the same police station.
13:14We're just pulling up for custody now with Jordan.
13:18The interview strategy was very clear.
13:21We want to be able to play them off against each other.
13:27Give one of them such a hard poke that they simply have to talk
13:31and then once one of the defendants starts to talk,
13:35we can go into the interview as the other one
13:38and start to explain what's being said.
13:41Hello.
13:43Are you looking to kill me?
13:45No.
13:47Hello.
13:49Are you looking into custody?
13:51No.
13:53A witness who was a drugs customer of Sam Michalewski
13:57comes forward with information
13:59about a deal on the night of the murder.
14:01He's basically done a drug deal with Jordan and Ash.
14:06He did it down at the Hartford marina.
14:09He goes to the car and Jordan says,
14:11Ash is going to be your dealer from now on.
14:15He exchanged numbers, which he did, did the deal, drove off.
14:21So we've looked at the CCTV.
14:23It looks like the car pulls in at 12 minutes past five
14:28and then drives out.
14:30This is the black Audi and it drives out at 17.40.
14:35The focus for us is building up a timeline
14:38of what happened during the course of the afternoon.
14:41So we know from CCTV that they're together in Halfords
14:44to fix the headlight and that was in order
14:47that they wouldn't get stopped by the police.
14:49We know we've got our timeline starts at 16.30.
14:54It's 16.30 now, isn't it, when they're in Halfords
14:56buying the headlight, Jordan and Ashley together.
15:00Then we've got the AMPR hit when they get into Tesco.
15:03It's at 16.50, then we've got them buying the clothing at 17.00.
15:08We've got them at House and Halford Marina at about 17.30.
15:13So that was all part of their planning phase.
15:16And then with the phone data, we know that Shepard and White's
15:19mobile phones were switched off and back on again at the same time.
15:24So at about ten to nine on the 31st,
15:29Ashley White's and Jordan Shepard's phones go off the network
15:33along with Sam's at around the same time.
15:35And then about half past ten, Jordan Shepard's and Ashley White's
15:38phones both come back on the network, start being used again.
15:41Sam's phone is never used again.
15:43And then this is the gap that we see here.
15:46So at 20.51 and 22.27 here, there is no activity.
15:52This activity here is call forwards, so the phones are off.
15:55So we've got a big gap of data.
15:57That's the window of opportunity there.
16:05So there's a long period.
16:07Yeah, there's a moment of ecstasy.
16:09That's when the murder's taking place.
16:12We piece that all together with all the little bits of CCTV as well,
16:15supporting their movements.
16:17We have a good timeline of what happened all the way through
16:21until 8.30 when they just disappear off the face of the planet
16:25and then reappear again at 10.30.
16:36These interviews are really crucial to us.
16:39We need to have a breakthrough whilst they're in custody.
16:44So you've got the first week. You don't have to do... Yes.
16:47You don't have to say anything. Yes, I understand.
16:50Anything that is new or whatever, I will go to court.
16:53Yes, I can use it. OK, so the way...
16:55The way that...
16:59The way that...
17:01It just started.
17:03Shepherd.
17:13Did you murder Sam Michalowski?
17:15No comment.
17:17Were you involved in the murder of Sam Michalowski?
17:19No comment.
17:21Do you know who murdered Sam Michalowski, if it was him?
17:24No comment.
17:26I'll make a prediction on the next day.
17:29I'm going to make a prediction on how the next 30 minutes is going to go.
17:32Huh? I'm going to make a prediction on how the next 30 minutes is going to go.
17:35Oh, no comment. Yeah.
17:37Right, Jon, I'm going to move the laptop round so you can see it, OK?
17:40Take as much time as you want to view them.
17:44What we're saying is one of these guys is you.
17:47Yeah.
17:49Because we've been trying to piece, actually, your movements with approval.
17:53Does this prove your involvement?
17:55Are you innocent or are you, you know, involved?
17:58So, Jon...
18:02So, Jon...
18:04So, Jon...
18:06So, Jon...
18:08So, Jon...
18:10So, Jon...
18:22Yes.
18:28Could you recognise me, if I'm necessary?
18:30No comment.
18:32My colleague is going to show you an exhibit now.
18:35You'll need to see for TV.
18:37Fantastic.
18:41MUSIC PLAYS
18:54We've actually bought a sample of the clothing items that we bought.
18:59Jordan, why did you buy those?
19:02There was two sets bought.
19:04Two of the joggers, two of the jumper.
19:07What would you need that for?
19:09Mm-hm.
19:11Do you like to buy your clothes from that?
19:13Mm-hm.
19:18We've got CCTV footage at the moment.
19:23And there's footage which shows black Audi driving there at 17, 12 hours.
19:32OK, we have a witness.
19:34Do you want to tell me what he told us?
19:36No comment.
19:41He states that he met you and Ashley there at Hartford Marina.
19:49On the 31st of January.
19:51And it was to buy drugs.
19:53Can you remember that now?
19:55No comment.
19:57Remember this? Now I've just told you that we've got a witness
20:00and I'm going to read you what he said.
20:02It does look better if it comes from you.
20:06OK?
20:07He said that he'd been buying from Sam.
20:12Then at this particular meeting on this particular day,
20:15on the 31st of January, so the same day that Sam was murdered...
20:23..when he was purchasing drugs from you,
20:26you gave him Ashley White's number.
20:29And you informed him that White, Ashley White,
20:32would now be dealing with him.
20:34So why would you be passing customers to Ashley White at that point?
20:39No comment.
20:41Were you looking at going into business with Ashley White?
20:44No comment.
20:48Would you and Ashley want Sam out of the picture?
20:51No comment.
20:54No comment.
21:02No comment.
21:04No comment.
21:12No comment.
21:23There's the picture, Ashley, the same day that Sam was murdered.
21:41Detectives put the details of a police source's account to Ashley White...
21:47He's told us exactly what has happened
21:49He can't have possibly known that without the murderer telling him.
21:53No comment.
21:55The stab wounds to the neck, exactly right, and nobody else knows that.
22:00So all these rumours going around Hunterdon, because it's a small town,
22:03none of them are spot on like that. We've heard loads of rumours.
22:06We've spoken to so many people. None of them have got it spot on like that.
22:09Not one. He's the only one that's spot on with everything.
22:13And he's the only one who told him that.
22:16Where else could he have got that from?
22:19And why would he tell us, of all people?
22:22Is he that horrified by what's going on? Who's he talking to?
22:26There's no way he'd tell us normally.
22:36We can see from CCTV evidence that an Audi matching new vehicle
22:40then travels under the Iron Bridge onto Irvine Street towards Stutefield
22:45for around 20, 57 hours.
22:48Is that you in your vehicle?
22:52At the point of you heading to Stutefield, which is towards Lakeway,
22:56where you lived in the company of Sam and Ashley?
23:02Why were the three of you together at that point?
23:06What were you planning to do?
23:09I don't know.
23:12And then the next time when we get, it's 21.08,
23:17and there's CCTV footage of three persons walking
23:25down that road towards the Trim Trowel
23:30in clothing matching what we believe that you were wearing,
23:34which is the dark brown.
23:40MUSIC PLAYS
23:51Why would you be walking down that road?
23:55It actually leads up towards a hospital in Hinchinbrook Park, doesn't it?
24:02Where are you heading up to Hinchinbrook Park?
24:10Because if you weren't, trust me,
24:13now is the right time to say that you weren't.
24:19What about your friends? Where are they at this point?
24:25Because all your friends at this point go offline.
24:30Mm-hm.
24:36What I've just put to you, is the only thing you're going to tell us?
24:41All right. I'm going to conclude this interview.
24:44The time is now 17.44 hours.
24:48BELL RINGS
24:59With the first set of interviews with both suspects concluded,
25:04Jordan Sheppard requests a consultation with his solicitor.
25:14The gauge looking at him, it was just completely different
25:17to how he was when we interviewed him.
25:19His face, he looked like he was nearly in tears
25:22all the time.
25:30There's a strange thing happening with Sheppard.
25:32He's been in consultation for close to an hour now.
25:37He hasn't been given any further exposure, so it's all right at that.
25:44After lengthy discussions,
25:46Jordan Sheppard and his solicitor head back into interview.
25:51BELL RINGS
25:54Now that we've had a break and we've had a consultation,
25:57is there anything that you would like to make us aware of before we continue?
26:00I'm confident my client's made a fair statement.
26:04A fair statement.
26:08The only thing I wish to say at this stage
26:11is that Ashley White attacked Sam.
26:14I did not know that Ashley was going to attack him.
26:17I did not know there was a weapon involved.
26:19I did not know of Sam, I did not touch him.
26:22Unable to say anything else, as I fear for my safety.
26:27BELL RINGS
26:58So that's what Jordan has said,
27:01which, I mean, we had a bit of a debate yesterday.
27:03He doesn't directly put himself at the scene,
27:05but clearly it's very, very strongly implied.
27:08So the plan interview-wise today is to go straight into Ash White,
27:11see what he's got to say in relation to that prepared statement,
27:14and then you never know, we might get ourselves into a stage
27:17where we're bouncing off each other a little bit.
27:19So I don't want everyone walking around high-fiving,
27:22cos we're not there yet.
27:25BELL RINGS
27:38I've been in jail before. It's hard, yeah?
27:40It's not harder than yourself, but it's harder than family.
27:48But jail, it's a good place as well,
27:50because you know who's real and who's fake as well.
27:52And that's a good feeling, obviously.
27:54Down the block, it's just a funny laugh.
27:56I can't lie. Down the block, it's funny.
28:09Details of Jordan Shepard's prepared statement
28:12are disclosed to Ashley White's legal team.
28:16After consulting with his solicitor,
28:18Ashley White returns to the interview.
28:23Please. Yeah.
28:31At the start of the first interview,
28:33I asked you, are you responsible for the murder of Sam?
28:36I'll ask you again, are you responsible for the murder of Sam?
28:39No.
28:41OK.
28:44Do you know who is responsible for the murder of Sam? Yes.
28:47Can you tell me everything you know about Sam's murder?
28:51Yes, but I don't want to say nothing
28:53unless you can promise me something.
28:55You can promise me I'm going to be safe
28:57and you're going to promise me my family can be safe.
29:01He's talking.
29:03He's talking.
29:05He wants some promises, though.
29:07He's talking.
29:09He's talking.
29:11He wants some promises, though.
29:34OK, listen to me, Ashley.
29:36There is laws in place that it's the police's job
29:39to keep those laws and enforce those laws.
29:41That's really important. That's fine.
29:43And our job is to enforce those laws...
29:46Have you got some tissue?
29:48I'll go and get some.
29:53Right, take a deep breath.
30:03Come on, Ashley.
30:05In you go.
30:09Right, Ashley, look at me.
30:12Right?
30:14You've got a tissue.
30:16I want you to tell me...
30:18It's all good.
30:20I want you to tell me Jordan murdered Sam.
30:23Right?
30:25Jordan murdered Sam.
30:27Jordan murdered Sam.
30:29Cut.
30:31You saw it somewhere else, Al,
30:33why it just says Jordan murdered Sam.
30:36You couldn't write this, could you?
30:39Ashley, look at me.
30:41That's not going to be enough, is it?
30:43No.
30:45Because Jordan's told me...
30:47That I've done it.
30:49Exactly.
30:51I don't want to get blamed for it.
30:53He's trying to pin this on me.
30:55He told me if I say anything, I'm going to get hurt.
30:57He knows where I live.
30:59He's dropped me off at my house.
31:02Because I'm dumb enough and I told him this shit.
31:04That's why I'm so scared.
31:06Listen to me, Ashley.
31:08All we've got so far is that you've told me...
31:10Yeah.
31:12..the exact opposite of what Jordan's told my colleagues.
31:14So you need to tell me from the beginning...
31:16Yes.
31:18..step by step, what happened.
31:20There's...
31:22I'll come and have a chat with you, first of all,
31:24and I'll explain to you.
31:26Because of one or two little developments
31:28in the last five minutes,
31:30I'm going to have an interview in relation to Shepard.
31:32All right? All right, cheers.
31:34Sam's rang me.
31:36No, Jordan's rang me, so he's like,
31:38yeah, what are you doing kind of thing?
31:40I'm like, I'm about kind of thing, yeah.
31:42And I was like, all right, let's go, let's go.
31:44He was like, what's the plan?
31:46He was like, I'm meeting Sam.
31:48So I was like, OK, then.
31:50So I've met Sam.
31:52Jordan's in his black clothes now.
31:54I'm not in no black clothes, I promise you now.
31:56I'm in the same clothes that I was in the whole time.
31:58I was in Halfords at dark time.
32:00Sam's sitting on the fence on Halfords.
32:02I remember this. I remember this so much, yeah,
32:04because I play through my mind every day.
32:06Like, I can't get that out of my head.
32:08I can't deal with it myself.
32:10Yeah?
32:12I've seen Sam.
32:14And obviously, boom, boom, boom.
32:16And Jordan said, let's go to Hinchinbrook.
32:18I was like, OK, I'll come to Hinchinbrook, yeah.
32:20Like, obviously, I don't know what's like.
32:22I was like, let's just drag.
32:24Jordan was like, nah, we'll walk.
32:26I was a bit suspicious then, yeah,
32:28and obviously, I was a bit like, whoa.
32:30And I see Jordan pull out a knife, OK.
32:32I'm not lying to you, yeah.
32:34He pulled that knife from his side door.
32:36It's got a black handle.
32:38It's probably about this long,
32:40and it's got a black cover over it.
32:42And then, obviously, then we've gone to the back of the car.
32:44Jordan's grabbed a baseball bat,
32:46and I've grabbed a baseball bat.
32:48And that was it.
32:50And then, obviously, we're walking down.
32:52We're walking.
32:55I thought they were coming for me, yeah.
32:57I'm not going to lie.
32:59I thought he was coming to kill me or something or attack me.
33:01Because we never spoke about anything in my life.
33:03We didn't even speak.
33:05It was mainly Jordan and Sam speaking.
33:07And so, obviously, I was panicking.
33:09I was like, what the fuck, yeah.
33:11So I've stepped back a bit.
33:13Obviously, it's dark now, yeah.
33:15And I'm walking, walking, walking,
33:17and I've heard a hit.
33:19In my life, I've heard someone hit
33:21and a scream, like a terrifying kind of scream.
33:23So, obviously, I've dropped my bat and I've ran.
33:25I've ran, I've ran, I've ran, yeah.
33:27And you know when you just kind of get gut-feeling.
33:29I've dropped and I've started crying.
33:31I thought they were coming for me.
33:33I must have been there for about five, ten minutes.
33:35And then Jordan's run up to me.
33:37He's like, come on, let's go, let's go, let's go.
33:39I'm panicking.
33:41I'm like, what do you mean, let's go?
33:43Where's Sam? Where's Sam? He's like, we're here, we're here.
33:45So, obviously, I followed him.
33:47I didn't know what to do. I was scared.
33:49I was shitting myself.
33:51And Jordan jumped in the car.
33:53And I've seen, like, just before he jumped in the car,
33:55he stabbed his knife into the floor.
33:57And, obviously, as he stabbed it into the floor,
33:59he's pulled it back out. He's like, I need to get everything off it.
34:01I'm like, what do you mean, everything off it?
34:03And he told me that he murdered Sam. He told me he stabbed him.
34:05This is how I know you, because he told me he stabbed him twice.
34:07Once, I think, he told me on the left side of the neck
34:09and then one on the right side.
34:11From me, like, he just punched him and started running
34:13and he stabbed him again.
34:17He's singing like a canary.
34:19Canary is why.
34:29Yeah, yeah, I'm just trying to digest it.
34:31I mean, that is fantastic.
34:33Fantastic.
34:35Thanks, mate. Bye.
34:43Wow.
34:45He's singing like a canary.
34:47Is he?
34:49Yeah.
34:51Well done, mate.
35:01Jordan, before this interview,
35:03we gave your solicitor
35:05some disclosure.
35:07I'm going to read that out loud.
35:09Ashley White was provided with details
35:11regarding your client's pre-prepared statement.
35:13White denies that he attacked
35:15Sam Michalewski, but provides
35:17the following account. He states
35:19that once at Hinchinbrook Park,
35:21Jordan Shepherd attacked Sam and
35:23stabbed him. Is there anything you would
35:25like to say?
35:27So my client's
35:29pre-prepared statement.
35:31I, Jordan Shepherd, will say that it seems
35:33clear that you are deliberately exploiting
35:35and using
35:37prepared statements from each suspect
35:39in order to obtain admissions,
35:41even though those admissions may not be
35:43reliable. Having taken legal
35:45advice, it is my firm view
35:47you are taking advantage of the suspect
35:49who is vulnerable and is facing serious
35:51allegations. In short, you are
35:53playing one suspect off against another.
35:55And whilst this continues,
35:57I will no longer be answering any further
35:59questions.
36:13What's your plans
36:15for the interviews now?
36:17Just get as much more detail
36:19as possible.
36:21Also show the CCTV.
36:23We have done before.
36:25We've got the CCTV.
36:27Ashley, can you confirm
36:29that's you three walking down
36:31that line?
36:43Before
36:45a decision to charge
36:47is made, detectives
36:49press Ashley White
36:51on his movements on the night
36:53Sam died.
36:55At the top of the screen, you'll see three males
36:57now walking across.
36:59You see them?
37:05From what you see...
37:07Yeah, that does look like us.
37:09That does look like us.
37:11From what you see...
37:13Yeah, that does look like us.
37:21Yeah, you know where you've got health
37:23wards here? Yeah, and you've got the
37:25car park we've parked here.
37:27We jumped over a fence here.
37:29A little fence, pushed it. Jumped over,
37:31come over to this side here
37:33and then
37:35we must have walked this way.
37:37We must have walked this way, down through Lakeway,
37:39past Parkgate, obviously, and all that stuff
37:41down Stokely, all the way
37:43through here.
37:53There we was walking together
37:55through the Kissgate, and then
37:57I'm not saying exactly where it is
37:59because I don't know you, but say like there was a big bush
38:01or something, like a big bush,
38:03they'd gone behind that big bush
38:05and then that's when he's hit.
38:07Honestly, that's where I've heard
38:09a big thud or something and then I've just
38:11ran for my life.
38:17What was surprising in this
38:19case, really made it stand out,
38:21was the fact that it felt
38:23so pre-planned and so brutal
38:25and very much an intention
38:27to kill well in advance to
38:29the time that Sam ended up in the woods with two people
38:31who he thought were his friends.
38:33There didn't seem to be a clear motive behind it.
38:35You know, there was some real
38:37hatred within that attack and
38:39to this day, I don't really
38:41understand why
38:43Sam was executed.
38:49So, did you ask him where you were going?
38:51No.
38:53It's like Jordan's like the alpha male,
38:55do you know what I mean? Right.
38:57Like whatever he says, like obviously don't get twisted.
38:59I'm scared of Jordan. Yeah. I ain't going to lie because
39:01obviously he's a higher, like he's a higher
39:03as you say, like he's higher in the food
39:05chamber than me. He's only in the food chamber this side.
39:09He thinks he's talking his way to
39:11freedom. I don't think he must.
39:13He can't do. The brief would have told him.
39:17Did you switch your phone off at all that night?
39:19No. My phone died that night.
39:21Right. Do you know if Sam
39:23switched his phone off at all that night?
39:25Not while I'm in the woods. Do you know if
39:27Jordan switched his phone off at all that night?
39:29I don't think Jordan did, to be honest.
39:31Your phone went off the network,
39:33so every indication that it would have been switched off
39:35sometime between
39:37half past eight, 2034
39:39and 2043. Do you know
39:41where that was? No.
39:45Then your phone
39:47ran out of battery.
39:49Is that right? Yes.
39:51So your phone went off the network at
39:532052. Yes.
39:55Just after ten to nine.
39:57Exactly the same time as
39:59Jordan Shepherds.
40:03If my phone died, my phone died. There's nothing I can do
40:05about that. I can't sit there and charge it up
40:07magically out of my fingers.
40:09It's just a coincidence
40:11that all three phones were off at the same time.
40:13You can't account for that. My phone died and that's all I have
40:15to say. The other two, I can't answer for.
40:17So can you please change the subject
40:19of the phones because if I can answer to them,
40:21if I can answer to them, I would answer to them.
40:23They're not right. Yesterday I said no comment.
40:25Today I've been descriptive. I've been
40:27literally trying to get as much detail as I can.
40:29Just because I can't help you with that one,
40:31it looks like you're trying to bite at me now for saying this and that
40:33because I've got nothing to do with it.
40:35There's nothing to do with it. Yeah, I will have a go on this phone.
40:37Let's move on.
40:39Is this whole thing about
40:41Jordan being responsible
40:43just to save your own skin?
40:45No.
40:47Not at all.
40:49Why would I lie about this? Why would I give you all these details
40:51of all this stuff to say it was me?
40:53Do you know what I mean? Why would I mention the knife?
40:55He didn't mention the knife to you, did he?
40:57No, because it just clears to the point that I know
40:59exactly more than what he does because he's
41:01the fucking one that stuck him in the fucking neck
41:03because he thought...
41:05I know for a fact, yeah, I did not
41:07murder Sam Michalewski. I can say that
41:09right now. Hands on my table right now.
41:11I did not murder Sam Michalewski.
41:13If you think I did, then do sign the ballot, please.
41:19OK, I've got no further questions.
41:25Cheers, mate.
41:27See you in a minute.
41:29Ashley White is saying that
41:31Sam... Jordan's done it all.
41:33He's hit him over the head. They both had a baseball bat.
41:35Jordan's hit him over the head with a baseball bat
41:37and he thought he'd killed him,
41:39but then he's got the knife out and stabbed him
41:41and Ash White's run away crying and upset
41:43and can't believe it's happened. That's what he's saying.
41:45The reality is that they both plan to attack Sam
41:47and they're both... Of course they've done, yeah.
41:49One's got the baseball bat, one's got the knife
41:51and it's a joint enterprise thing and now they're shitting
41:53themselves and blaming each other.
41:55The hardest thing of this, the hardest thing we had
41:57was we can't put them at the scene
41:59because we haven't really got great forensics
42:01that put them there. We haven't got a witness
42:03that puts them there, they haven't got CCTV,
42:05we've got nothing that puts them at the scene,
42:07but now they've done it themselves.
42:09And Ash White rung off crying because nasty Jordan
42:11had done it all. What a load of bollocks.
42:13MUSIC PLAYS
42:21It never, ever occurred to me
42:23that somebody who knew Sam
42:25would hurt him.
42:35There was no excuse
42:37for what was done to my son.
42:39But he wasn't the first
42:41and he won't be the last.
42:45We have to
42:47deal with this problem,
42:49we have to face it down.
42:51We have to stop this
42:53from happening again.
42:57We have to take responsibility
42:59for our young people and for what they're doing
43:01and...
43:07I will take responsibility
43:09for what Sam was involved in,
43:11for what Sam was doing.
43:17But it's too late
43:19to do anything about it,
43:21too late to save Sam.
43:25It isn't too late
43:27for some of these other children.
43:35Jordan, you were charged
43:37with the following offence,
43:39contrary to common law,
43:41on the 31st of the 1st, 2018,
43:43together with Ashley White,
43:45at Hinchinbrook Park, Huntingdon,
43:47murdered Sam Mehalowski.
43:59Ashley, you were charged with the following offence,
44:01on the 31st of January,
44:032018,
44:05together with Jordan Sheppard,
44:07at Hinchinbrook Park, Huntingdon,
44:09murdered Sam Mehalowski.
44:15Just stay here, mate.
44:17I'm stretching my fucking legs, innit?
44:19If you've got a problem with that, then do something, innit?
44:21You know what I mean?
44:23I've had enough of all your fucking bullshit stuff
44:25telling me fucking bullshit this, fucking bullshit that.
44:27Don't look at me like that either, bro.
44:29Who do you think you are, man? You're fucking nothing, bro.
44:35You're fucking nothing, bro.
45:01I'm afraid the legacy of being a police officer
45:03and investigating these things is
45:05rarely do we know exactly
45:07what happened or exactly
45:09why it happened,
45:11and that's a source of frustration.
45:15You know, it doesn't hurt me that I don't know
45:17what happened in the woods.
45:19It hurts Sam's family,
45:21and those are the people that have to live with it.
45:23The sadness I feel
45:25is empathy
45:27towards the family,
45:29who, in some cases,
45:31don't quite understand what happened or why.
45:37I hope with all my heart
45:39that my children
45:41recover from this.
46:01My son
46:03is never coming back.
46:31And support information for any of the issues raised
46:33can be found online at channel4.com
46:35slash support.
46:37Next tonight, under the knife, under budget,
46:39but how safe is it?
46:41Son's seeing surgery. It's coming up.