Alex Barth and Brian Hines recap the second day of training camp where Tyquan Thornton was the standout receiver.
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SportsTranscript
00:00All right, everyone, welcome back into another live edition of the Patriots Beat podcast
00:29here on the CLNS media network presented by our wonderful friends over at Game Time and
00:35Factor Meals.
00:36It is Brian Hines back as always with Alex Barth because day two of Patriots training
00:40camp is in the books.
00:42We were down there as always at Gillette and we are here now to break it down with you
00:47guys as always.
00:48So I don't know.
00:51We said yesterday it felt a little competitive.
00:55You were saying I thought it was a little slow to start, but maybe the competition picked
00:59up more team drills than usual than years past.
01:03How did you feel just off the start here?
01:06What was your take on kind of the energy level today?
01:10Did you think they kind of dialed it back or still not in pads?
01:14You know, not looks like Monday will be the first day of pads.
01:18But what was your assessment just to kind of set the stage here again?
01:22They were still doing like early down work in between the 20s that didn't change much,
01:26but just big picture again to kind of set the stage here.
01:30What was your thoughts on the competition levels, the energy levels?
01:34Did you think they kind of dialed it back from yesterday or picked it up?
01:38What was your just kind of kind of thoughts on the energy of practice here?
01:44Another kind of not rainy, but kind of cloudy, cloudy Thursday for late July here.
01:50Yeah.
01:52I mean, I don't want to say it was like down energy.
01:54It was definitely a little bit less.
01:57The big difference to me, like I think they they wanted to come out the same energy.
02:00The defense just took over.
02:01We saw the offensive line become a problem today and that changed the equation of it,
02:08but still felt competitive in the sense that, you know, it's still pretty much all 11 on
02:1211.
02:14Still a ton of real foot, you know, as real football as you can get at this time of year,
02:19but it's a little more lopsided.
02:21Yep.
02:22Yeah, definitely more position team drills rather than positional drills.
02:27It feels like and I think that's something Mayo was trying to push for more of that.
02:31So I wanted to start on the offensive line.
02:34I know we always want to start at on the quarterbacks and that's what everyone wants to hear and
02:38rightfully so with with Drake May and Jacobi Berset going at it, but you mentioned the
02:43offensive line.
02:44I kind of wanted to start on the offensive line because we said yesterday we might get
02:47on here and we'll have a new offensive line combination every single day and that's what
02:51happened today because after Calvin Anderson was at right tackle to start camp on Wednesday,
02:58it was the Darien low today on Thursday.
03:01Now the other four pieces were the same as troops core for city.
03:05So David Andrews and Michael went new from the left tackle spot in there, but they switched
03:10up the right tackle spot.
03:12It was the Darien low.
03:14It seems like maybe they're set at those other four spots for now and now they're just we've
03:19heard them say so much.
03:20They're trying to find this best five in the one position.
03:24They're really trying to figure out within that five is the right tackle spot.
03:28So we know our over our big picture view on the offensive line and the tackle position
03:35isn't great.
03:36But where you kind of at with the Darien low there today and through two days of training
03:43camp with that offensive line and you know that right tackle spot because as you said
03:47to they're switching it up and the performance wasn't great today and I know they're not
03:52in pads, but there are a lot of times like the first play in 11 on 11's Jacoby percent
03:58has a play action boot and Matt Judon's in his face and he has to throw it away.
04:02There are multiple other times where from the left side there is pressure from the right
04:05side.
04:06There is pressure and again, they're not in pads, but it just wasn't a great start maybe
04:10as they're still, you know, shuffling these guys around up front to get their best five.
04:15Yeah.
04:16So let me ask you this practice.
04:18There's a lot there.
04:19You talked about, you know, it seems like they're set on for four spots, which if they
04:22are, it's not ideal, but okay.
04:25It's not a mixing and matching of the offensive line.
04:28You just, you have a right tackle battle, which that happens.
04:31It's camp like people battle for positions.
04:34Do you think they're done?
04:35Do you think we've seen all the combinations?
04:37Because I don't know.
04:38I don't.
04:39And I wonder if there's one coming that changes more spots.
04:43Well, and actually just before you go off that, uh, or four talked after practice and
04:49he was like, okay, the coaches have told us that we're going to have a lot of combinations
04:53to start.
04:54And he said, the only two guys that are set is we know David Andrews is going to be at
04:59center and we're going to talk more about the center position too, because something's
05:03up behind him.
05:05So we know David Andrews and we know Mike and when new is going to be somewhere on the
05:09right side.
05:10So he made it sound like there's only two guys kind of set in stone.
05:13So as you were saying, we might see a lot more combinations here, at least early in
05:18the summer.
05:19And Michael and when he was asked about playing right guard the other day and replied, yeah,
05:24we're going to have a lot of different combinations.
05:25So I still think there's one coming where he's a tackle.
05:30The way I feel about this is you got to pick a group sooner rather than later.
05:35And look, if you want to take the non-padded practices and try a bunch of different combinations,
05:39fine, but you can't be for two weeks every day, a different group.
05:44Like if this is what they're going to do, the way I would do it is you want to, you
05:49want to do four different combinations for four different non-padded practice is fine.
05:54When we get to Monday, whichever group was the best of that four, that's your line and
05:59give them a week.
06:00And then if it's still a disaster, maybe you try again, but continuity is so important
06:05up front.
06:06Dante Skarnick, he always talks about seeing it through the same set of eyes, right?
06:11Five guys that see it through the same set of eyes.
06:13That's basically just chemistry.
06:14Does everybody know where everybody else is?
06:16Does everybody know what everybody else's assignments are so you can work as one unit?
06:20You can't do that if you're doing a different group every day, it's going to be tough.
06:26So I, again, the non-padded practices, whatever, cause I'm just not going to put a ton of
06:30stock in an offensive line playing non-padded practices, but when the pads come on, you
06:36need to start allowing a certain group to work together, whatever that group may be.
06:39And we can debate what that should be.
06:41I'd rather see what are the different combinations they're working with.
06:44Let's see what our options are for we, we, we settle on a favorite, but you gotta, you
06:49can't be doing two weeks of a different group every day.
06:52It's just, you're going to, I've said yes, the offensive line battle usually continues
06:58into the regular season because of rules about camp.
07:01All the more reason you can't put yourself behind schedule and you've got to at least
07:05have a primary group in mind.
07:08Yep.
07:09Yeah.
07:10A hundred percent.
07:11That's where I was going to kind of go with it.
07:12Like you want these guys playing next to each other.
07:15A core four kind of talked about that today too.
07:17He's like, I got to learn.
07:18He was talking about city.
07:19So, cause they're on the left side.
07:20He's like, I got to learn how he plays.
07:23City has to learn how, you know, chooks plays cause the chemistry, especially in this wide
07:28zone run game where it's so important where all these guys have to be on the same page
07:33and you have to rep it so much.
07:35Like it's really important that you can kind of get your five and maybe there's, you know,
07:40a right tackle battle where they, it could take a little bit of time, but you want as
07:44many guys as possible in their spots here.
07:48So they can get chemistry with each other, see the game as scar said through the same
07:51set of eyes and figure that out.
07:53So I was going to ask you when you want the first, like five to like when the deadline
07:59should be.
08:00It sounds like the first padded practice.
08:01So I'll ask you what other combinations do you think we might see up until then, or maybe
08:07even on that first padded practice?
08:09Cause I still think if they're playing Mike and window at guard, the hope should be that
08:14you pick Caden Wallace in the third round.
08:17We should see him starting at right tackle.
08:19Now maybe if Mike and when new gets bumped out to right tackle, we picked, or they picked
08:24Leighton Robinson, fringe top 100 in the fourth round of guard, those guys should probably
08:30play sooner rather than later.
08:31So what other combinations do you think they might kind of tinker with a Friday, Sunday,
08:38first padded practice on Monday there?
08:40So it's more about players and combinations, I guess.
08:44So we've seen Calvin Anderson, Caden Wallace, very in low rep at right tackle.
08:49And I'm with you.
08:50Like, well, I'm fine making Wallace win the job.
08:52I'm fine with, you know, Calvin Anderson, like, like what you called reset, right?
08:58Remember Drake may said, or Drake may draw Mayo said, Jacoby reset is the starter out
09:04of the spring and kind of leaving the door open.
09:07I'm fine.
09:08Taking that approach with Caden Wallace.
09:09I mean, that is the right approach, but we've seen those three rotate at right tackle.
09:13I do wonder, since it just seems like they're trying everything, if Tyrone Wheatley gets
09:17a shot in there at the right tackle spot, those should, no, but like, actually, if I
09:23told you yesterday, I wonder if Darian Lowe gets a spot, you would have had the exact
09:27same reaction, especially given his splits last year at left and right.
09:30He's much better on the left side, much better.
09:33So I wonder if Tyrone Wheatley gets a shot over there, but that should be it before we
09:39get to the own window, Michael and window of it all.
09:42Calvin Anderson, Caden Wallace, but Darian Lowe, Tyrone Wheatley.
09:47I do still think there's a combination coming with Michael and when we're right tackle,
09:50just given the way they've talked about it.
09:53And then I think the, you know, then you do that alignment with Nick Leverett at guard.
10:00You do that alignment with Leighton Robinson at guard.
10:03Maybe do you try when we're cities on the right side and you're playing other guys at
10:06left.
10:07I still think Michael Jordan is kind of a sleeper in this conversation.
10:10He got a lot of reps in the spring.
10:13So yeah, it's the, I, I think there's a few more guys to make their mark, whatever the
10:21exact five is like, I'm all right.
10:23So are they going to do it?
10:26There's different permutations within all that, but I still think there's a few guys
10:29that are going to give a shot.
10:30Yep.
10:31Yeah.
10:32A lot of moving parts there that will probably continue over the next few practices.
10:36The last thing on the line I wanted to hit on and we kind of hinted on it earlier was
10:41the backup.
10:42We've talked a lot about the backup unit too, because there's lots of question marks there
10:47as well.
10:48And they might not have a backup center, especially with Jake Andrews on the pop list.
10:53They've been kind of cross-training Nick Leverett and Antonio Moffey two guards, two natural
10:59guards at center and yesterday and kind of rainy conditions.
11:02We saw a Nick Leverett botch a snap.
11:05And today the last play of like true competitive 11 on 11s, Antonio Moffey, like launched one
11:10over six, five Joe Milton's head there.
11:13So we'll see when Jake Andrews comes back, like he is a natural center.
11:18He was drafted as a, as a center, but right now, like they might not have a backup center
11:24that you might feel confident about if, you know, David Andrews, 31, 31, 32 year old David
11:30Andrews has to goes down, you know, hopefully not obviously, but you know, if they have
11:34to call it to a backup center, they might be in a tricky situation right now.
11:39Yeah.
11:40It's a fair point.
11:41And I've said this as much as we've talked about what's going on at the top of the depth
11:44chart on the offensive line, what's going on behind those guys.
11:47Cause you're probably not going to have the same five guys play all 18 games.
11:50It's just not, or all 17 games.
11:51It's just not realistic.
11:52Got to get to myself there with the 18 games, you know, at left tackle, we've really, it's
12:00been Calvin Anderson behind Chooks, a core for which, okay.
12:03He's your backup left tackle.
12:04He's probably should be.
12:05He's played it.
12:06But what happens if he wins the right tackle job?
12:09How many pieces are you moving around?
12:10Things like that.
12:11So there's just so many questions up front and I don't want to evaluate the play.
12:20The bad snaps are bad snaps.
12:21I don't want to go overboard evaluating the play in non padded practices, but it just
12:26kind of shows they have a lot of work to do and not a lot of time to do it.
12:32Yup.
12:33And I see some people in the chat, they said they should have, you know, drafted a center
12:37should have addressed UDFA at the position.
12:40They did sign Charles Turner who was a UDFA who I thought, I think right after the draft,
12:46I said he was one of the intriguing UDFA as I'd watch at center.
12:49Cause he was at LSU.
12:50We started a lot of games.
12:51He has a lot of experience there.
12:52So I wonder if, you know, after two days of two botch snaps, if he maybe gets more
12:57of a look at that backup center spot, that was the one kind of UDFA and they still have
13:02Jake Andrews who they drafted in the fourth round last year.
13:05He's just on pop.
13:06We'll have to see.
13:07Yeah.
13:08I'm less worried about backup center, honestly, than I am the backup tackle spots because
13:12Jake Andrews, you know, we'll see him when he gets out there, he'll be, uh, uh, he'll
13:19be an option in the mix.
13:20Yeah.
13:21Yeah.
13:22All right.
13:23So that is, uh, the offensive line.
13:24Let's jump over to the quarterbacks who they're protecting.
13:28Wasn't protecting them very well today, but, um, the rotation of top up top held, it was
13:34Jacoby percent leading it off Drake may, uh, behind him, the reps again were pretty even.
13:39I think Jacoby got just like one or two more reps and competitive team drills.
13:44So, uh, they're staying true to their word.
13:46They're giving may a real chance to, uh, win this job.
13:51I thought in general, and maybe part of the reason we sat on the top, like it was a little
13:56of a less uneventful practice was it was a lot of quick game today.
14:01Neither of them, you know, Jacoby or Drake really pushed the ball downfield, but they
14:06kind of took what the defense gave them.
14:09They didn't turn the ball over, which was good.
14:11You know, Jacoby through an interception yesterday.
14:13So it was one of those days where maybe being just fine was good.
14:18That was my kind of take on it.
14:20And I thought both of those guys were just fine today.
14:22Yeah.
14:23They didn't let it get away from them.
14:24And the reality is there's going to be days that look like this.
14:28There's going to be games that look like this.
14:29You got to be able to operate, uh, in those settings and they, they did well enough.
14:35So yeah, another up and down day for the quarterbacks.
14:38They were kind of a product of their environment today.
14:40Now, like you kind of hinted to there, the real story, the quarterback position today
14:44wasn't one and two, it was three and four.
14:46Yeah.
14:47So, uh, Joe Milton was repping as the QB three ahead of Bailey Zappi, which I believe that's
14:54the first time we've seen that all spring and summer combined here.
14:58So a change of the guards at the number three spot, which I think we've kind of expected
15:04to happen at some point here.
15:05We've talked a lot about Bailey Zappi, probably not having a role going forward when you have
15:11the veteran and Jacoby Brissett, the future and Drake May, and then this intriguing late
15:15round prospect in Joe Milton.
15:17Was Bailey Zappi's role.
15:18And it looked like Milton, at least today, uh, jumped him on the depth chart.
15:22Now saying that we got the full Joe Milton experience out there.
15:26He was throwing some bombs early and then he got into teamwork and he is firing like
15:32a 10 yard slant to Keisha on booty and like, it's coming in way too hot.
15:36It goes right through booty's hands.
15:38So ball speed ball control is a little shaky there still with Joe Milton, but that's Joe
15:43Milton and, uh, he's QB three.
15:45It looks like for the time being.
15:48So I, I'm not ready to go that far yet.
15:50And I know maybe that's surprising coming from me, but I think this is their big plan
15:56for the quarterback room.
15:57It, and what I mean by that is they priorities, one a and one B, however you want to rank
16:04them, or, I mean, it should be one and two, but like it's close, uh, getting Drake, like
16:11Drake based development and get Jacoby Brissett ready for the season.
16:14Those are there for the start of the big season.
16:16Those are their big priorities.
16:18Both of those are going to take significant amounts of time.
16:20You don't have a ton of opportunities for depth quarterback development, but you know,
16:26it's not a big investment, but you drafted, uh, Joe Milton in the sixth round.
16:31He is a project player.
16:32And also you just have a third team offense that for a number of reasons, you probably
16:38don't want your top quarterbacks working with.
16:41So there does, there does need to be some sort of snaps there for those guys.
16:46So how I think they're going to do it to maximize the reps for Drake managed corporate seconds.
16:50I only have a finite amount of time to work.
16:54Not Drake manager covers how they're going to do it for, for Joe Milton and Bailey's
16:58happy.
16:59This is my fourth show of the day is they're going to rotate those two by day.
17:03So yesterday was zappy day.
17:04Today was Milton day.
17:06I would not be surprised if tomorrow goes back to zappy and then Monday to Milton, or
17:09maybe because it's the first day of pads, zappy gets two in a row and then Milton gets
17:13two in a row or something like that.
17:14Like, I just think that's how they're making sure those guys get opportunities while still
17:19maximizing how much the core of your set and Drake Meyer on the field.
17:23So I'm not ready to say Milton has passed zappy.
17:28If we go out there tomorrow and it's Milton again, and then on Sunday, it's Milton again,
17:32like we'll have that conversation.
17:34To me, this feels like a, just a rotation to get both those guys reps while maximizing
17:40chart.
17:41Yep.
17:42Cause I don't, I don't think zappy took any like true competitive reps today.
17:46So, uh, or if he did, it was very, very one period of sevens.
17:50He did not rep in 11s.
17:51Joe Milton repped before him in sevens and then Joe Milton got one period of 11s Bailey's
17:56happy gotten on.
17:57Yep.
17:58So it was just that one, the one period for zappy.
18:01So yeah, yeah.
18:02Maybe that is a way they can rotate these guys.
18:04Um, cause he have four quarterbacks.
18:06It's tough to get all of them snaps.
18:08We've been talking about that since the spring.
18:10So maybe they are rotating those guys to get them, uh, some work there, but, uh, still
18:14Jacoby at the top and may, uh, following them there.
18:19Anything else on the, on that quarterback room?
18:23That's pretty much it.
18:24I think from that group.
18:25Yeah.
18:26I'd say may probably again, they weren't pushing the ball much down the field today may probably
18:31had the best pass.
18:32It was like a nice 15 yard in breaker through a couple of defenders to Jalen Polk.
18:37So, um, nice to see, like, it was, it was good to see him work in the quick game and
18:42short game.
18:43Well, cause you know, he had some inconsistency this there at UNC at times.
18:48So to see him kind of handle that, it looked like he was going through his reads pretty
18:51quick, quick, quickly, efficiently, um, some positives, uh, from Drake may there.
18:56But, uh, before we get onto the rest of the offense, I have to talk to you guys about
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20:12So, uh, rest of the offense, we can go to pass catchers.
20:17Are we doing Taekwondo?
20:18And it was a busy Taekwondo and day, uh, that bottom of the wide receiver depth chart, who's
20:24going to get that fifth, sixth spot.
20:26It was Jalen Rager's day yesterday, Taekwon Thornton was the most active receiver today.
20:31I think he caught like four passes in a seven on sevens and then they go to 11s and he caught
20:37like a short curl against Christian Gonzalez.
20:41So, uh, he led the way with, with five catches and competitive team drills.
20:45I'm not doing it yet until we put the pads on.
20:48I think you're in the same boat, but let's just hear confirmation from, from that, from
20:51you.
20:52Yeah.
20:53Look, a good day is a good day and let's give credit where credit's due.
20:56Just like we did with Jalen Rager yesterday and good days at this time of year are better
21:00than not having good days this time of year.
21:02But like you said, so part of double-edged sword Taekwon Thornton's day, a lot of his
21:09catches were underneath and in the middle of the field, they were not him running goal
21:12balls on the sideline, which is normally where he dominates in these practices.
21:15Because usually in non-padded practices, the guys that went on speed have an advantage.
21:20Talk a lot about Maurice Harris, right?
21:22Um, you know that story.
21:24If you don't know a story, listen to the end of catch 22 today, but, um, that's usually
21:29what these guys don't know.
21:30Taekwon was winning underneath in the middle of the field, which he struggled there in
21:34his career.
21:35He hasn't been able to run routes quickly enough or anything like that.
21:37And he was able to get himself some separate separation in the middle of the field and
21:41then the shorter parts of the field, which good, but it's a lot easier to do that when
21:47they can't jam you at the line of scrimmage and they can't hand fight you as you're in
21:49your route.
21:50So I, it's not to take away from what he did today, because again, a good day is a
21:56good day.
21:57A good day is better than a bad day.
21:59But I'm in the same goes for Rager yesterday, frankly, like for both of them, when the pads
22:04come on and you can't just run by guys, you still need to be able to win.
22:09And that question is going to continue to loom.
22:11And frankly, for Thornton, can you just stay healthy?
22:15Started both his NFL seasons on IR, especially if he's operating middle of the field, that
22:20shorter area was today.
22:22That's more contact and guys coming at you.
22:24So good day again, nothing wrong with that, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you
22:32Taekwon Thornton's back and he suddenly figured it out or anything like that because we're
22:35so far from that at this point.
22:39Yep.
22:40That was Evan buying in.
22:41Was he back on Taekwon on catch 20 struggling not to, he did, but he's struggling not to.
22:47So if Taekwon has a big day tomorrow, we might lose him.
22:52If he has a first big day with pads, it's going to get, it's going to get crazy.
22:55It's going to get crazy down there, but yeah, it'll happen over a really big first day.
23:00And then at the end of practice, I'll get hurt.
23:02I'll get hurt.
23:03Exactly what happened last year.
23:04Yep.
23:05Could see it.
23:06But I mean, speaking, you give like him and Rager credit, right?
23:12Like they're doing their, they're having impressive days.
23:14Have you seen anything from Juju Smith Schuster?
23:16Speaking of that fifth, six wide receiver battle, have you seen anything, uh, from Juju
23:22over these, these first two days of camp?
23:25Usage wise?
23:26Yes.
23:27They've put him out.
23:28They're going to map, but he hasn't done a ton with it.
23:29He had one nice kind of sliding catch on a throw from Drake may on day one, but not,
23:36he hasn't separated himself by any means.
23:38And he's had the opportunities to do so, or at least it's looked like he's had the opportunities
23:43to do so.
23:44Yep.
23:45Uh, one guy who has been out there a lot, and I think maybe one of the biggest positives
23:51from the receiver group, uh, was Jalen Polk.
23:54And we kind of talked about this yesterday.
23:57Looks like they fully trust him just to be out there with Jacoby Brissett, with Drake
24:00may like from day one, let him get out on the field.
24:04He was out there a lot.
24:05Again, today he was, he was pretty active again today.
24:07He caught that one pass from Drake may we were talking about earlier.
24:10So I think through two days here, one of the biggest signs of encouragement is like,
24:16they're going to going to play this kid, which I think we expected, right?
24:20He's going to play a lot.
24:21He's a good fit in that kind of Z spot where you can get physical, you can block and Alex
24:25van Pelt's offense, but that looks like it is unfolding.
24:29He's out there a lot and he's active.
24:30He's getting targets.
24:31So I think that's one of the biggest positives from that receiver group kind of through two
24:36days here.
24:37Yeah, yeah.
24:41Just like you said, the fact that they trust him, the fact that he's out there for a rookie
24:46when we just talked about Kayden Wallace has to win the job, Drake may has to win the job.
24:50He's been out there and that's encouraging.
24:52I think you look at his route running and he didn't run a very diverse route tree of
24:57Washington, but he looks comfortable as a route runner.
24:59He's a real knack for finding space in the defense.
25:02You have to be encouraged about you've seen so far from Jalen Polk.
25:05Yep.
25:07And Taylor and I were kind of talking about this and he pointed it out was the play of
25:14the day probably today was Marcus Jones had like a really nice pass breakup against Polk
25:18on a slot fade and he got Jonathan Jones yesterday had like a similar pass breakup on Polk downfield
25:25and that's where he really thrived as like this possession downfield receiver in college.
25:30Now maybe that's like he can use his physicality a little bit more when the pads come on, but
25:35that's maybe some areas moving forward.
25:38And again, it is early against two kind of experienced corners, but going moving forward,
25:43you'd like to see him maybe haul some of those in because that's again where he really succeeded
25:47at college.
25:48But the involvement, the play time, it's really been encouraging so far.
25:52He looks like he's going to be a really consistent threat in this passing attack.
25:56And lastly for receivers, I just had Pop Douglas again, wasn't involved during team drills.
26:04He's working through a hand injury.
26:06He had his I think I forget what hand it was, but he had one of his hands, his thumb kind
26:12of wrapped up.
26:13So he's working through a hand injury.
26:14I'm hoping that Joe Milton isn't just breaking everybody's thumbs because you know, Javon
26:19Baker had the fractured thumb and now pop has a hand injury.
26:22So we'll see, hopefully get pop back in there sometime, but that's been his limited absences
26:28with the hand injury there.
26:30So, uh, anything else from receivers?
26:34You can lump tight ends in there.
26:36I know we were talking about Mitchell Wilcox down there during practice a lot, but anything
26:40else from, from those past catchers that, that caught your eye today at camp?
26:44I would just say on, on pop Douglas, um, it probably, I, I'm not too worried about that.
26:51He's still catching passes and individual drills and they didn't put them on PVP, which
26:55you usually do with players who are start hurt at the start of camp.
26:57So not a ton of worry there at tight end.
27:00Yeah.
27:01Mitchell Wilcox still on the field.
27:02Ton.
27:03I'm telling you, he's going to make the team.
27:04It looks right now like he's going to make the team.
27:05All right.
27:06Uh, is that over Jaheim bell or is that a fourth tight end?
27:11Well, no.
27:12Also he had another, he's had a rough start, dropped the pass today from may.
27:18Um, he did something else too.
27:20We were talking about this, I forget, but yeah, it hasn't been the prettiest of starts
27:25for, for Jaheim bell the first two days.
27:27So as Mitchell Wilcox like inching him off, or do you think that's talked about this?
27:32I think Jaheim bell is kind of his own thing, right?
27:35He's kind of a gadget player.
27:36He just has to prove he's up to the role they wanted to play, which again, not a great start,
27:40but just having a traditional wide, tight end who can block, come on the field and help
27:44you.
27:45Cause Austin, uh, Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper, neither of them are great blockers.
27:49There's real value in that.
27:50There's a real value in that.
27:51So I, as it's it, maybe Wilcox comes out when the pads are on and just can't block, but
27:58he, he had a decent history of it in Cincinnati and based on the way they're using him, I
28:01think he's going to make the team, especially for a team that's going to run the ball like
28:05a ton.
28:06You figured they'd want a guy who can hold up at the point of attack there.
28:09So, uh, Mitchell Wilcox underrated guy, maybe the watch, um, running backs, not much.
28:15We can just kind of lump this into attendance cause there was some kind of confusing stuff
28:20at the start of practice.
28:22Antonio Gibson came out with a Jersey, but he didn't practice.
28:25He went down to the lower field.
28:27So he's still on, uh, the NFI same with, uh, Deshaun Fenwick or no Terrell Jennings is
28:33on pup.
28:34Um, I, I'm going to get those two confused all summer, but Terrell Jennings was in his
28:39Jersey too.
28:40And then he left.
28:41So those two guys are still on the reserve list, but it looks like they'll be back, you
28:45know, relatively soon as Mayo said, not too much, uh, of a concern there, but, uh, anything
28:51else you have from the offense, I believe that's all I had.
28:55But if you had anything else to add there, you can, you can take it away.
28:59Um, no, I think that's pretty much it on the offense side of the ball.
29:03All right.
29:04Uh, let's take one more very quick break.
29:07We'll hear from our friends over at game time, and then we can wrap this up with the defense
29:12and a little bit of special teams talk as well.
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30:40All right.
30:43So over to the defense, uh, they definitely looked like a unit that had a lot of continuity
30:48and returned a lot of the same guys, uh, today they definitely were given the offense
30:53some fits, but, uh, the big news and kind of continuing from the attendance was Devon
31:00Godshaw who we've talked a lot.
31:02He needs a new contract, wants a new contract.
31:05He was there participating yesterday and then today he wasn't there for the beginning, kind
31:10of came up halfway through in a Jersey, but didn't have his helmet, didn't have his cleats
31:14on.
31:15So I don't, is this a Holden?
31:18Is that how you're viewing this?
31:19Like he's kind of saying, look, I'm not gonna, maybe we'll get a better look when the pads
31:25come on, but are you kind of looking at this as what Matthew Judon did last year?
31:30And this is kind of a Holden for gotcha kind of, but also he was a full participant yesterday.
31:37And I just don't understand, like, what's the message in being a full participant the
31:41first day and then going back to holding in, maybe they had talks and they went South.
31:45I don't know.
31:46Like, I don't bar more was limited to, I wonder if maybe there's just some, you know, with
31:50the defensive lineman, they wanted to give some other guys some looks or something.
31:54We'll see what he does tomorrow.
31:55Like, could it, maybe he just like, I want to remind them what I can do before I go and
31:59don't practice.
32:00I maybe, um, this weird, it was weird.
32:05I want to see what he does tomorrow before I definitively say it.
32:07But right.
32:08It would be weird to start the whole thing on day camp.
32:12Yeah.
32:13It would be weird.
32:14And, uh, I think Mark Daniels said bar more was under the weather.
32:17So maybe there's like an illness going around the defensive line room or, or something,
32:22but yeah, it would, it would be a weird approach to come out and be a full participant yesterday
32:27and then just kind of sit out from day two on.
32:31So, uh, we'll continue to see about the, the Von gotcha situation, uh, and speaking of
32:38the contracts, any, did you read into the Mr. Kraft talking to Matthew Jude on if anyone
32:44didn't hear, uh, you know, craft came out at the end of practice, had a nice chat with
32:49Matthew Judah out on the sideline that went over and talked to Elliot Wolfe and then Gerard
32:53Mayo joined them after practice.
32:55So, uh, just quickly, do you read into anything at that at all?
32:58Just something interesting that caught the eye.
33:00Uh, I mean, how do you not, right.
33:03It at least shows they're all on good terms and you figure if they're on good terms, they're
33:06getting closer to something.
33:07I think Mike Reese reported something along the lines of like, they have a few options
33:11on the table and maybe they're just figuring out which, which one is the right route to
33:14go.
33:15But did part of me think that we were going to walk off the field and get the tweet from
33:20Schefter that there was a deal done?
33:22Like, yeah, but I, at the very least they're on good terms.
33:25So that's good.
33:26Yup.
33:27So I'd still expect something to get done there.
33:29We'll just see what that actually is and what that actually entails.
33:33But, uh, as for the on-field performance, um, the defense still is so tough to track
33:39because they have so much depth, so much versatility, they're, they're rotating guys in and out
33:44there.
33:45Uh, if you want to start with the secondary, you mentioned Marcus Jones had maybe the,
33:49the play of the day with that pass breakup.
33:50He looks like he's going to be a top, uh, option in the slot, but then Jonathan Jones
33:55is, is moving around like he's out at boundary corner and then they'll sub everyone and he's
34:00back playing a little safety.
34:02So, uh, just what's your kind of read or, or, or take on all these moving parts in the
34:07secondary to kind of start these first two days?
34:11You know, if you really want to be game plan defense, you need to be able to be ready for
34:16different sorts of offenses.
34:18And it seems like that they're getting guys ready to play multiple positions, which makes
34:22sense.
34:23Think about it.
34:24You start off with some teams with bigger wide receivers.
34:25You look at Cincinnati with Jamar chase and T Higgins, but you're also going to have the
34:28dolphins who have burners all over the field.
34:30Marcus Jones having a great start is huge for them.
34:33Huge.
34:34Because if you feel confident that he can be your primary starting slot corner, keep
34:37trying, it gives you more depth there and it allows you to play Jonathan Jones on the
34:41boundary.
34:42But also when you know, you play some of those bigger teams, you move John Jones in the slot
34:45and now Alex Austin's up, but you don't have to put as much on his plate as maybe you would
34:49want to.
34:50So John Jones stepping up as big, but I think they're getting ready to be a very multiple
34:55defense.
34:56I don't know how many guys, you know, Gonzalez will play on the boundary, like that's going
35:00to happen.
35:01But I think there's, we're going to see a lot of different guys in a lot of different
35:03spots and they're going to really be aggressive in spinning the dial.
35:07Yeah.
35:08As you would expect.
35:09But the Marcus Jones start I think is encouraging because I was a little hesitant on him going
35:13into the summer cause you know, he was all right.
35:17His rookie year, but he's a smaller guy and then he gets hurt last year.
35:21How's he going to hold up?
35:22But if you can lock, if you can have him like confidently locked down the slot, I think
35:27that's big to, you know, free up Jonathan Jones.
35:30And then maybe you're talking about Alex Austin in that Jason McCordie role, that third boundary
35:35cornerback that we've talked about a lot.
35:37So it just adds another level of depth to that cornerback room.
35:40But one other note in the secondary again, that we talked about that on the field, Brendan
35:46schoolers is maybe becoming a safety in front of our eyes as well as a specialist.
35:52Now, whether that's like, you got to make this team in more ways than just a specialist
35:57or it's just day two of camp and we're letting everyone run.
36:00Just he's out there a lot.
36:02And again, it was noticeable that we were talking about it down there, a couple of our
36:06eyes.
36:07So just kind of an interesting wrinkle through, through two days there with school or back
36:11playing a lot of safety.
36:14It does seem like they're getting him ready to play safety.
36:16Maybe even if it's just in an emergency situation.
36:22This is part of the whole new era post bill Belichick, right?
36:25What are they going to do?
36:26Are they going to keep these special teams, specific players are, how many of them are
36:31they going to keep?
36:32And I wonder if this is a case of either them going to school or in saying, you know, you
36:35need to do more to make the team or school or looking around and seeing what Jalen Hawkins
36:39can play special teams and also can play deep safety and I need to do more.
36:43So I'm not sitting here telling you, Brendan schoolers is going to be the next Devin McCourty
36:47and play 90% of the snaps, but they don't have a ton of depth, the deep safety and to
36:52have him as an emergency option.
36:55And maybe you thought like Brandon Bolden, right back in the day, like that kind of guy,
36:59it's not like he's never played it.
37:00He was a C he was a wide receiver in college before he moved to safety when he transferred
37:04to Texas.
37:05He played like 300 defensive snaps his final year there.
37:08That's a long cry from the NFL, obviously, but it does seem like they maybe want him
37:15to be ready if they need to go to him back there.
37:18Yeah.
37:19They have the range to do it.
37:20And I guess the tackling skills from a special, a special teams experience and experience
37:25at the position before.
37:26So just another kind of interesting thing to watch as, you know, they try to construct
37:31this roster in a way we might not have seen it before.
37:34So again, the front seven, it's tough to kind of review and look at without the pads, but
37:43just quickly, any, anything, any notes did you have from the front seven today?
37:50I mean, Keon White had one really good rush.
37:53Jude on had one really good rush, but without pads, I'm not going to put a ton of stock
37:56into that.
37:57Yeah.
37:58The one thing I'll say about Keon White.
38:01He spoke after practice and he seemed to like, it's like the mental approach for him.
38:07He said like the game has really slowed down and it's going to allow him to play a little
38:12bit more freer.
38:13We've talked about like the dream as a pass rusher is to get the green light where coaches
38:16will allow you to mess up if you're trying to make plays and maybe that kind of plays
38:20into this defense.
38:21We've heard a lot.
38:22They want to be more aggressive, right?
38:23Maybe that's just opening up guys to play a little bit more freely, get downhill, you
38:28know, rush the passer.
38:29So the fact that he is out there a lot, we've heard Gerard Mayo hype him up.
38:34We've heard, you know, Dietrich Wise, some of his teammates hype him up and then he gets
38:37out there and he says like he's mentally, he feels better playing the game.
38:42Like I think the arrow continues to point up for Keon White, which is exciting for this
38:47defense to kind of take, take the next step there.
38:50But I believe that he talked about, I just started, he talked about too, that, you know,
38:55last year and I actually wrote about this on 985, the sports of.com so you can find
38:59the full quotes on there.
39:00I want to pull up at least a part of it, but last year he said basically he was more focused
39:06on just not making a mistake, not screwing up, not messing up.
39:11Right.
39:12Whereas this year now here's, uh, here's what last year I was focused on doing my job and
39:17not messing up.
39:18And now I kind of have a grasp on the defense and I can focus on, I already know what my
39:23job is.
39:24I'm confident in it.
39:25And now I can focus on winning and beating my opponent, especially if they're going to
39:28place more aggressive brand of defense where he doesn't have to be as concerned about setting
39:32the edge.
39:34He can really pin his ears back and go, and that's where you get to that green light thing.
39:37So I love his approach right now.
39:39I also thought it was funny when he was asked, remember in the spring, Gerard Mayo was like,
39:43yeah, you know, if Gerard Mayo was asked, has anybody surprised you said, yeah, Keone
39:47White has, he, White was asked about that day.
39:49He goes, I don't know why he'd say that about me.
39:51You have to ask him that.
39:52I still have to come out here every day and do my job.
39:55Yup.
39:56That was, that was funny, but yeah, it seems like, you know, Keone White stock, stock trending
40:01upwards.
40:02Yeah.
40:03Uh, speaking of speaking to players, did you listen to Chooks Accor for today at all?
40:07I tiny bit.
40:08I couldn't really hear him.
40:09It was loud when he was talking.
40:10So remember when he talked in the spring and he kind of made it seem like it was a big
40:14deal switching from right to left tackle.
40:17Yeah.
40:19Today it was like the complete opposite.
40:21He's like, I don't want to be that guy, but I've done it before.
40:24I was an all American whenever at left tackle, it's really an easy transition.
40:29So I don't know what's going on there, but like that would just, that just kind of stuck
40:33out to me.
40:34Like it was a complete one 80 from his, his quote, uh, in the spring, which maybe it's
40:39a good thing.
40:40Cause he's been playing there for a month and he feels more confident in it.
40:43Or if someone told him to say it, like, I don't know, but yeah, I wonder if somebody's
40:46like, Hey, we're catching a lot of heat for this.
40:49Can you not feed the machine?
40:51Yeah.
40:52But it was just like such a sharp contrast from the spring quote.
40:56So that, that just stood out to me and I, I forgot to mention that during the offensive
40:59line point.
41:00So, uh, that was interesting, but, um, anything else defensively, I believe that was most
41:07of it.
41:08Again, tough to, uh, judge the front seven.
41:10We will wait till the pads come on and see some of these pass rushers, uh, get to work
41:15and secondary, just the versatility.
41:17Marcus Jones is getting off to a strong, strong start, but anything else you have to add there?
41:22No, I think that's pretty much it.
41:25This was, you know, relatively uneventful practice.
41:28That doesn't mean there's nothing to take from it, but this, this felt like a dog days
41:32of camp kind of practice.
41:33Yep.
41:34But, uh, speaking of uneventful, we still haven't got a kickoff drill, like two days
41:38through and no kickoff drill.
41:40What's going on?
41:42That doesn't surprise me.
41:45You think that's something they're hiding?
41:47Like we'll work on this behind the scenes and we don't want to show any of you guys
41:51this that I think, yes.
41:55I am surprised there's been no special teams order through due days, but I didn't think
41:58we were going to see the kickoff first.
41:59I thought we were going to get more field goal work cause they, they got a battle to
42:02sort out there with the kickers.
42:04And so far we haven't seen them there yet.
42:06Yeah.
42:07We haven't got any live punt drills.
42:10They were working like some positional punch drills.
42:12The only thing that stood out was Jalen Hawkins and Marta Mapu or the first two personal protectors,
42:18which they lost Cody Davis and Adrian Phillips.
42:20So I mean, those are two guys that are already supposed to, you know, we have on the roster,
42:24so it's not nothing major, but just expanding their roles, but yeah, no live field goal
42:29work through two days, no live punt drills.
42:32And we haven't seen anything with the new kickoff.
42:34So I'm sure that's something you expect them to have to rep a lot.
42:39So I'm sure they're working on that behind the scenes and scheming that, that up on the
42:42scene, but we'll wait and see.
42:44We have to see it at some point they have to rep it out there.
42:46I wonder if in the preseason, if team's just going to bang touchbacks, not because they
42:51think it's the best strategy, cause they don't want to show their hand, right?
42:53I just don't want to show anything.
42:54So we'll wait and see on the kickoff, but that was it again, quiet, special teams, a
43:02special teams day.
43:03They even got rid of our towel pool noodles today.
43:06They ditched those today in the punt return.
43:08So a quiet day, they were doing well, they changed it.
43:11They were holding one ball and then it catch the second one.
43:14Yep.
43:16So, uh, spicing that spice in the punt return drill up today, but, um, I believe that's
43:21it day two again, as you said, kind of an uneventful day, maybe they're setting up to
43:26ramp this thing up tomorrow cause they have a day off, uh, on Saturday and practice is
43:31going to be a little bit longer tomorrow, 15 minutes more.
43:33So I think there'll be at the two hour point, uh, tomorrow.
43:36So maybe we get a little bit more, excuse me, a little bit more of a competitive day,
43:41but anything else that we didn't get to in your notebook that you would like to add before
43:46off here?
43:47Uh, I remembered something from the secondary just to go back, you know, we know what the
43:51top of the depth chart is going to look like, or at least who it's going to be, how it shakes
43:54out.
43:55Another question that other spot, I'd say Isaiah Bolden has an early lead there.
43:58He's been on the field quite a bit.
43:59Yep.
44:00I would agree with you there.
44:01All right.
44:02So that'll do it for us tonight.
44:05We'll be live from Gillette stadium tomorrow with Mike and Taylor for a Patsby Pats daily
44:13crossover, probably around three o'clock, but you can, uh, make sure you're locked into
44:20all of our Twitters and the Patriots press pass on YouTube.
44:23So you do know, uh, when we are going live again, that is live from Gillette stadium
44:27tomorrow with Mike and Taylor to break down Friday's, uh, practice will be a little bit
44:32earlier in the afternoon, but in the meantime, you can also follow Alex on Twitter at real
44:37Alex Barth, head over to 95, the sports hub.com for his training camp coverage.
44:43And you can also follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Heinz and head over to Pat's pulpit.com
44:48for our written Patriots coverage over there as well.
44:51Thank you as always for tuning in with us tonight, and we will see you guys from Gillette
44:55stadium tomorrow.
44:56Bye.