Geordie Journos ask: Time to cash in on Callum?
Newcastle United writers Liam Kennedy, Dominic Scurr and Jordan Cronin are the Geordie Journos. Fresh from their trip to Germany, the lads discuss 'a different Eddie Howe' than has been seen before.
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00:00It seems we are talking about footballers in that manner, but that's kind of, that's almost what this PSR world does to us rather than talking about footballers, we're talking about commodities and saleable assets.
00:17Hello everyone, welcome back to Geordie Journals on Shots, bit of a different format for us today, lockdown throwback doing everything remotely.
00:25We've had Jordan and Liam over in Germany at Adidas headquarters with Newcastle United this week, speaking to Eddie Howe.
00:32Yeah, it was a, it was an interesting trip being able to speak with Eddie Howe, three players as well, Tino Liberamendo, Lewis Hall and Lloyd Kelly.
00:41So a lot of insight, got to say training. So there's a lot to talk about on this episode.
00:46It was an illuminating visit to Germany is what I would say. It was slightly out of the ordinary.
00:51I think as you guys out there will all know now, having seen the interviews and read the pieces done by the various national journalists and locals that were there as well.
01:01You might even see now a video take on Newcastle World and on Geordie Journals YouTube.
01:07It was quite remarkable from Eddie Howe, flexing his politicised muscles for the first time in his two and a half years at St James's Park.
01:18A really very different Eddie Howe to anything we'd seen before.
01:21And it's kind of just left doors open, left, right and centre really with all this talk with England being on the agenda, obviously.
01:28It's left a lot of a lot of doubt in a summer.
01:33It's got to be careful, really, to kind of describe it as a difficult summer, because it kind of has been a difficult summer.
01:42It's actually been a difficult six months. Now, I've got to caveat that very quickly by saying it's not.
01:49I 100 percent believe the Football Club is heading in the right direction.
01:53I do just believe we're at a moment where there's a couple of little bumps in the road which needs to be navigated around.
02:00And actually, I think one of the bumps created is because of some progressive thinking within the Football Club.
02:07They're trying to do the right things that I think these are the foundations they would have laid.
02:12The ones that lay in this summer are the ones they would have preferably laid when they first took over before they ever had to appoint a manager.
02:19The biggest problem that they had in that process was that they had an absolute car crash of a manager and they had to get rid of him.
02:25He couldn't even he couldn't even hold an end up. He had to be taken out of the equation.
02:29So toxic was Steve Bruce. So they had to bring Eddie Howe in.
02:33And there were sort of new parameters and dynamics built in relationships that ultimately had to be sort of deconstructed to an extent this summer and a proper process put in place.
02:47Now, if you're Eddie Howe, you're going to sit here and say, but it worked for two and a half years. Why change everything now?
02:53And I think the Football Club has got to have a more sustainable model.
02:56And I think the problems that arose last season can't just be seen.
03:00And we said it numerous times in the last six to 12 months is it can't just be written off as a bit of bad luck.
03:06If you write things off as a bit of bad luck, bad luck will continue happening to you.
03:11You've got to look a little deeper than that.
03:13And I think a lot of fans, and this isn't a criticism, do kind of they almost feel like there's been a reality check for some of this, some of it.
03:21Oh, wait there. Injuries are still happening. I thought it was reset because it's a new season.
03:26No, I'm sorry. If you keep doing the same things over and over and over, you'll get the same results.
03:30And Newcastle will have a disastrous season injury wise if they continue with exactly the same process that they had last season.
03:37So now there's a level of accountability with James Bunce, which I think is a really positive move.
03:42Eddie Howe won't see that as a positive move. I totally see it from his perspective.
03:46Why would he want another level of accountability?
03:49Why would he want somebody scrutinising his every move, his body of work?
03:53The one that he's talked about numerous times about converting from notepads onto CD format and onto discs and onto his computer, etc.
04:03To make sure that he's got that in a digital format, he used the time away from football to do that.
04:09So I think it's, I can see from his perspective, you don't want somebody meddling in all of that.
04:14And you're going to get that. That's just the top and bottom of it with a performance director.
04:18If injuries keep happening, what are you doing and what are you doing?
04:21Why is that not working for X player, Y player and X process for that game, whatever it may be?
04:26And then again, on the transfer front, there was absolutely zero doubt in my mind.
04:30And that's been reinforced largely by the quotes and the conversations that we've seen and had over the last few weeks,
04:37some of which happened in Germany, that Paul Mitchell has been brought in very much as the transfer man.
04:43And he's going to make sure that you, Cassie Knight, not only get good players, but get them at good value.
04:47So I do think it's going to be an interesting summer.
04:50I wouldn't necessarily build your hopes up on it being a world class names when you talk about quality over quantity.
04:56But I do think they're looking for significant improvements in two or three key areas.
05:00And that's where that comes in.
05:01Eddie Howe had basically carte blanche from that first transfer window to largely do what he liked.
05:08Look, there was accountability there, but he was given a lot of freedom.
05:11And that's very much a manager's role. It's quite old fashioned.
05:14It's not a head coach role.
05:16There's very few top football clubs now run with a managerial position where a manager gets full control.
05:23And I think that's one of the realisations that has to happen.
05:25And it's a difficult one. Once you've given somebody that leash and that role, then how do you rein it back in?
05:31It's always difficult. That's the problem that they're having at the moment.
05:34I don't necessarily think it'll be a problem that drags and lingers.
05:37I think it could be one that gets dealt with and the move forward, which I'm sure we'll discuss.
05:44Because it didn't feel like, Joan, you chip in here, it didn't really feel like Eddie Howe was angling for an England job.
05:49It almost felt like he just was a bit unhappier the way the Cassie Knight job had gone.
05:54Yeah, it almost felt like he was using the England job as leverage in many ways.
05:58I think the England job is irrelevant.
06:00I don't think he has a burning desire inside him to actually take that job at this point in his career.
06:05You spoke about Newcastle being the best place for him.
06:07And realistically, for Eddie Howe, the club, he's came from Bournemouth to Newcastle.
06:13He'd do very well to step up to a bigger club than Newcastle, in my opinion, in terms of club football.
06:19I think it's a divisive one where it used to be probably the B's and E's in football.
06:23Whereas now it's probably lost that little bit of shine, the England job.
06:26And I think Premier League football has almost taken over.
06:28And in terms of Premier League football, Newcastle United is one of the most exciting teams in that division at this moment in time,
06:34because of the project and what they're trying to achieve.
06:36Were you guys surprised by Eddie Howe's reaction?
06:39I know Liam, you said you almost felt uncomfortable in that press conference.
06:44And we'll have to caveat this with Eddie Howe spoke to the broadcasters, which I think a lot of people absorbed that and maybe formed their own opinions.
06:54The written press, it was very much, it felt like, based on speaking to you guys, almost a different tone.
07:00And Eddie Howe may be naturally cautious due to the changes happening behind the scenes, as anyone in any job probably would be.
07:08But I guess as an elite manager, if you want to be an elite manager, it's all about moving in and adapting.
07:13So, yeah, were you surprised by what Eddie Howe had to say on Friday?
07:17Yeah, I don't think I was alone in that.
07:19I think everybody in that room, just to give people an idea of the mechanics, if you didn't know what happened.
07:26Eddie Howe came and spoke to the local and written press.
07:30That was all local press, but Matthew Raisbeck, who set himself up in an interview station outside.
07:36Matthew Raisbeck of BBC Radio Newcastle.
07:38So he did the local and written press together.
07:41First up, then he moved outside of the building and did BBC Radio Newcastle, which you may have seen those interviews and the snippets on social media as well.
07:48Then he moved to do NUFC TV.
07:51He did the club interview, which you may also have seen.
07:53And then he moved around the corner, which is even further out of the outbuilding that we were posted at, the ADS HQ, and did Keith Downey of Sky Sports.
08:01And having seen all of the interviews myself, I was very careful not to listen to the other interviews while we were writing.
08:09Because I thought it's important that we actually just present what was given to us rather than be coloured by things that have gone on outside and the outside noise.
08:19But the Sky interview in particular really surprised me.
08:23When I was able to listen to it back, it seemed in such a different tone.
08:28Almost a lot of the things that he was saying was similar, but had a lot more meat on the bones when he spoke to the written guys inside.
08:37Myself and Jordan were positioned there.
08:40I was very surprised.
08:42I'd never seen this side of Eddie Howe before.
08:44I'm not saying it's a bad thing, by the way, in the grand scheme of things.
08:47I've seen plenty of people out there saying, come on, Eddie, show a little bit more, give her a little bit more.
08:52And there's no doubt he's done that.
08:54There's no doubt he's almost laid his marker down.
08:56There's a line in the sand there saying, look, I love this club, I love this job, but I want it on my terms.
09:02And I think that's a difficult position he's put himself into.
09:06I think it's probably caused some internal stress, probably caused some...
09:09I would imagine after those interviews went out, there would have been...
09:13It didn't sound like there'd been a lot of talks.
09:15It didn't sound like there'd been a lot of working out of who does what and when.
09:20I would imagine that that's gone on now over the weekend.
09:25It would be a big surprise if it hadn't.
09:27Look, I think Eddie Howe's got to understand.
09:30And I think he does, actually.
09:31I think he was very clever in what he said.
09:33He was like, you can't say they're doing what they think's best when you cast United.
09:37And the bit that he didn't add on the end, that you can join up yourself,
09:41is that that doesn't necessarily mean it's best for me.
09:43And I know everyone will say, well, he didn't say that.
09:45He didn't, but it was very clear in that room.
09:47His demeanour, he was out of character, but he wasn't out of control.
09:53He was very in control, a little bit mumbled with his messages.
09:58It was sort of from one end to the other.
10:00In the same sentence, he would have a contradiction to say,
10:03I'm really happy here and I love this place, to then suddenly,
10:07but I'm not really sure about what's going on at the moment.
10:11And I love England.
10:14I'm not sure what you could say if you got off at the England job,
10:18to then saying, well, no, I want this job.
10:22This is my job.
10:23And it's not my conversation.
10:24There was a lot of mixed messages.
10:27I think he has to understand, and like I said, I think he does,
10:29is that the Football Club, no manager.
10:33You can go back to Kevin Keegan, you can go back to Sir Bobby Robson,
10:36just in the modern era, no manager is bigger than you cast United.
10:39And you cast United is much bigger than any one of the individuals
10:42that are at the Football Club.
10:45And it will go on without them.
10:47And I think he understands that.
10:49But what the club has to do, it has to be sustainable.
10:51You can't put all your eggs in one basket and suddenly sign over six
10:55transfer windows, sign 20 players that only one manager would want.
10:58And then you change a whole ethos and process when somebody else comes in.
11:03That's not how Football Clubs run now.
11:04They tend to have a bit more foundation to them,
11:07but all the players are signed mostly.
11:10Obviously, managers always have a say,
11:12but they're signed with an idea and a kind of an overall view.
11:18And that's where a sporting director comes in.
11:20They're fitting them into a style of play.
11:22They're fitting them into a way the Football Club wants to play.
11:25And that's when you don't get the problems of managers coming in
11:28and ripping up a rule book again,
11:29having to spend another 200 million in a transfer window,
11:32because the manager has been brought in with that idea as well.
11:34It kind of all works together.
11:36So I think Eddie Howe maybe needs to look.
11:40He's put his foot down and we'll see where it goes.
11:45And that wraps up part one of the Geordie Journos on Shots TV.
11:49We'll catch you after the break.
12:07Welcome back to part two of Geordie Journos on Shots TV.
12:10I've been discussing with Jordan and Liam
12:12Newcastle's visit to Germany and the Adidas headquarters.
12:15Been an eventful week or so for Newcastle.
12:18We've spoken about Eddie Howe's press conference,
12:21what he told the media on Friday.
12:24But then on Saturday,
12:25Newcastle kicked off their pre-season matches with a 3-1 friendly win
12:30with, bear with me, Unterhaching, German third tier side.
12:36Is that right? Yeah.
12:37Goals from Harvey Barnes, Jacob Murphy, Alexander Isak
12:40gave Newcastle a 3-1 win. Two 11s played in either half.
12:43Very young side for the second half.
12:45But a notable absentee, someone who travelled over
12:48and it's another injury issue.
12:50The injury issues, as was touched on in the first part,
12:53have extended into the pre-season ahead of the 2024-25 campaign.
13:00And the big injury issue that Eddie Howe confirmed on Friday
13:04was Callum Wilson. Back issue.
13:06Couldn't confirm whether he'd play again in pre-season
13:08or whether he'd make that opening day against Southampton
13:11on August 17th. Jordan, given Callum Wilson,
13:15the uncertainty surrounding his future,
13:18Eddie Howe's desire to want to keep him at Newcastle,
13:21but then he's now into the final year of his contract.
13:24It's the same frustrations we've had with Callum Wilson
13:28throughout his time at Newcastle.
13:29More injury issues, leaves Newcastle with one fit senior striker.
13:33And it's just further question marks over Callum Wilson
13:36and what he can offer to Newcastle, really.
13:40Yeah, absolutely. Missed 25 games last season,
13:44I think it was, through various different injuries.
13:47He seems to be picking up the weirdest of injuries of late,
13:49where it was a pectoral muscle injury earlier this year.
13:52He's now underwent a back procedure and Eddie Howe couldn't confirm
13:55if he'd return for the start of the season.
13:58And it's just that big frustration that continues to go on and on.
14:02And I'm with Callum Wilson and though that he gets
14:04will these injury problems ever, ever go away?
14:06I don't think they will.
14:07I think they'll probably come on stronger, to be honest.
14:10But I think regardless of Callum Wilson's future now,
14:13it's very, very clear that Newcastle, whatever happens at Wilson,
14:16needs to go out and sign a centre forward in the summer transfer window.
14:20It threatened to really derail the season last year when,
14:24because let's not forget Alexander Isak has these injury problems as well.
14:27He doesn't not pick up injuries.
14:29There was a fire injury that Alexander Isak had last season.
14:32And I think for Newcastle to be in a position
14:34where they need to call on Callum Wilson,
14:37if Alexander Isak does pick up an injury,
14:39the feeling is that Callum Wilson probably isn't going to be there.
14:42You'll doubt that he'll be there and be available.
14:45So I think regardless of Wilson,
14:47I do think Newcastle need to bring in a striker.
14:50What do you do with Wilson?
14:52I think if it was up to Eddie Howe,
14:54you'd keep him around the squad and you would play him as much as you can,
14:57because Eddie Howe absolutely loves Callum Wilson.
14:59He's made absolutely no secret about that.
15:02But as I say, he's so unreliable,
15:05and that's the big frustration for me.
15:08So that centre forward position is a huge priority.
15:11So, yeah, Liam, what moving forward do you want to see with Callum Wilson?
15:16Is it a case of, look, cash in while you can,
15:19or do you still hold some faith that he can deliver for Newcastle?
15:23Callum Wilson's been outstanding striker for Newcastle,
15:26in my opinion, but his reliability and his body have failed him.
15:31I think it's a real shame.
15:34Look, it could, in a weird backhanded kind of way,
15:37it could eventually make them just replace Chris Woods.
15:40You might actually see a third striker because of Wilson's unavailability
15:43at the start of the season.
15:44They might actually go in with three forwards,
15:46which would be quite a novelty,
15:48given they've been running with two for so long.
15:51But I don't know.
15:54It's a really difficult one.
15:56There's been a need to trade.
15:58Callum Wilson is a potential tradable commodity.
16:02It seems we are talking about footballers in that manner,
16:05but that's almost what this PSR world does to us,
16:09rather than talking about footballers,
16:10we're talking about commodities and saleable assets.
16:14I think it would be tinge of sadness the day that he does leave,
16:17because I've always really liked him as a forward.
16:21But I can also see the merit in...
16:24It's not that there is no merit.
16:26This is silly what I'm saying.
16:27There is an absolute need.
16:29As Jordan was saying earlier,
16:30there is an absolute need to make sure that they do get somebody in,
16:33because taking the load off Alexander Rizak is the only way forward,
16:37because otherwise we're going to end up in the same issues
16:40and the same problems, even with less games.
16:42Like I said earlier, if they keep doing the same things over and over,
16:45they're going to end up with the same results
16:46and they're not going to progress as a football club,
16:48which ultimately is what the owners want,
16:49the football club to continue progressing.
16:51It's what we all want, really,
16:53whether you follow the club as a fan or a journalist,
16:55or you're involved at the football club,
16:57you want progression.
16:59And I think moving on from Callum Wilson,
17:03whether that be just sidelining slightly more with his position in the squad
17:07or replacing Oli by bringing somebody who can do his job,
17:12I think is an absolute necessity moving forward,
17:15because he's proven it's not a case of saying,
17:17oh, it's just a bit of bad luck, yeah, injury.
17:20He's been here three years now, three and a bit years,
17:24and we know that reliability is his big problem.
17:27And Newcastle, if they're going to challenge the top four
17:31and challenge for trophies,
17:32which is the next step of this football club,
17:34it's an absolute must.
17:35There is no ifs or buts about it now.
17:37The football club, because of the trajectory it's put itself on,
17:40because of the progressive nature of the owners,
17:42this football club has to be in and around challenging.
17:44They can't drop any further.
17:46If they drop again, then it's a major failure,
17:48even though they're still so far behind in the commercial terms,
17:51with the football clubs slightly above and around them.
17:54That doesn't make any difference now.
17:56That won't wash.
17:57That won't wash in a world of PIF owner and progressive owners,
18:00so they have to keep going.
18:02And that's where you kind of have these uncomfortable conversations.
18:06I think there's very few players that are untouchable,
18:09and Callum Wilson's certainly not untouchable
18:11when it comes to quality in that Newcastle United squad.
18:14There's probably only two or three players who do fit that bill.
18:17And Wilson, unfortunately, with Trippier and Almiron,
18:20who've all done good things for Newcastle United.
18:23There are another two players who definitely fit that category too.
18:26Yeah, that availability is an issue,
18:27and now he's, what, 32 into the final year of his contract.
18:30If you're talking about selling him,
18:32his value is probably not at a level where you can almost justify.
18:38His value to Eddie Howe in Newcastle is probably higher
18:41than any price you could almost get for him this summer.
18:45Yeah, I agree with that.
18:47And what I would say on Callum Wilson,
18:49if you're talking about potential transfer,
18:51would there be many takers for Callum Wilson this summer?
18:54Because you probably do if you're looking for a backup striker,
18:57like Newcastle are currently using them,
18:59they're Alexander Isak.
19:00But in terms of a starting striker,
19:02I think if you're even a newly promoted club,
19:04do you go and take a punt on Callum Wilson to keep you up?
19:09Look, his goals probably would,
19:11but how often does he get on the pitch?
19:13That's the big concern.
19:15So there's talk of moving Callum Wilson on this summer.
19:18I think the number of suitors that would come forward for Callum Wilson
19:21in terms of England would probably be lower.
19:23Maybe if you look further afield, the Middle East,
19:27maybe other parts of Europe as well,
19:29you might have to go there,
19:31but it's up to him if he would want to go there as well.
19:34But I think in terms of an English club now,
19:36I don't think Callum Wilson gets another English club.
19:39I think for him to sort of move on in his career,
19:41he'd have to almost go into a retirement home if you like,
19:45or abroad somewhere.
19:49I don't know.
19:50I don't necessarily agree with that.
19:52I think if you're a team who's,
19:55so just say for example,
19:57you're a team who's just got promoted to the Premier League,
19:59and yes, you haven't got the reliability,
20:01but you wouldn't be getting a striker of Callum Wilson's ability
20:04if he was reliable,
20:05because if he's reliable and you're casting it,
20:07it wouldn't be getting rid of him.
20:08So you are getting a top quality striker that if you say,
20:11look, we can probably, for 15 million,
20:14we can get a bloke.
20:15If we can get him out on that pitch 16, 17, 18, 19 times,
20:19might score the 10 goals that keeps us up this year.
20:21I actually think there is a market for him.
20:24And I also think there's a market as you go down the Premier League
20:27that a lot of other clubs with slightly different ambitions,
20:30it might be we don't want to be in that relegation fight this year.
20:33I think we'll look at him and say, you know what?
20:36He could be just, he could be that,
20:38that three or four game swing by getting the 10 goals this season,
20:42that means we finish 13th instead of 17th or 18th.
20:46So I slightly disagree with that.
20:50I think there is a market in England.
20:52I think he's got a good pedigree.
20:53And I think it's,
20:55it's hard to look through the lens when you're casting out because they're
20:58at a stage where most people who follow the club kind of are a bit sick
21:02of it. Like you look at it as a lens where it's like, it's happened again.
21:06It's happened again. It's happened again. Look, on a personal level,
21:10there's no problems there, but his body's clearly failing him.
21:14But I think, I do think people would roll the dice.
21:17It's very much a marginal thing as we see in the Premier League,
21:21whether you stay up or not. And I think 10 goals,
21:24if you can get Callum Wilson out on the pitch 20 times next season,
21:27you'll get your 10 goals, no matter where he's at in that league,
21:29because he's a natural finisher and that could win you three or four games.
21:33That means you finish mid-table instead of at the bottom end.
21:36Just elsewhere on the injury front, you guys obviously saw a bit of training.
21:40We've seen the likes of Joe Willock, Tino Liveromento,
21:44they've travelled over but haven't trained fully over in Germany.
21:49And Lloyd Kelly as well, Eddie Howe said he was fine, but question marks over him.
21:53He wasn't involved in the friendly game. He, you didn't see him train.
21:57So, yeah, what's the latest on the injury front?
22:00And what are the question marks over Lloyd Kelly?
22:03It's another one that fits into that category.
22:05If Lloyd Kelly had been playing regular and available for all of Bournemouth's games
22:10over the last few seasons, it might not be a conversation you can't see United having,
22:14such as he was so highly rated down there.
22:17They need to make sure that they manage him right,
22:20which obviously Eddie Howe's trying to do at the moment,
22:22obviously with the help of James Bunce and others.
22:25But I do think it's a concern.
22:28I am worried to an extent, not by the transfer situation,
22:33which may worry certain people that haven't brought in X, Y and Z.
22:37I'm more worried about the fact that we've seen two teams put out in that friendly
22:42at the weekend and it was still missing a whole host of players that the people
22:46who think that injury's reset thought would be back and involved.
22:50Joe Willock being a key one, Tino Liveromento being another.
22:54Of course, the internationals to come back, but it's not been ideal.
22:58It's not been an ideal summer, whichever way you look at it.
23:02And Newcastle need a bit of luck now in some ways.
23:06And that luck comes from, like we say, the scrutiny,
23:08making sure that the same mistakes aren't made if mistakes were made.
23:12So, yes, I think Lloyd Kelly fits into that category.
23:15Having Newcastle just brought in another player who is injury-prone
23:20and isn't going to be available every week, we certainly have to hope not.
23:23Hopefully we'll see some players return on Saturday as Newcastle kick-start
23:28their public pre-season campaign at Hull City.
23:31The three of us will be there, then me and Jordan are jetting out to Japan.
23:35So we'll hopefully get another video sorted, this time next Monday,
23:4010.30pm on Shots TV.
23:42Check us out as well, Geordie Journos on YouTube.
23:45And, of course, all our work from myself, Jordan and Liam
23:48on The Shields Gazette and Newcastle World.
23:51Thanks for listening and watching.