Fitbaw Talk: Naismith needs to talk to Hearts, Hibs and Motherwell Transfer deadline wins
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00:00Hello and welcome to Fade the Tap of the Toon podcast, my name is Ben Banks. Today we're
00:13going to look back on the game against St Johnson, the transfer window at large and
00:17deadline day as well as we head into the international break. Today we're joined by Callum Gibson,
00:24as you can see, not shy in hiding his colours, and he's a young emerging journalist in the
00:31Scottish media scene so I thought it would be good to get him on and get him for a chat.
00:37We'll start with this St Johnson game, before we do that if you could leave us a wee five
00:41star review on Apple, Spotify, all your usual podcast players, that would be much appreciated.
00:47We should say during this that no microphones will be harmed or rammed in box during the
00:54course of this so that's a thing I never thought I would have to say at the start of this but
01:00we should just a pre-warning as well and we hope that St Johnson fan hasn't been crying
01:04too much into his weekend and his Monday's going okay.
01:07But, looking on that game then, fairly comfortable, it feels weird to say a comfortable win given
01:13the fact you score a 90th minute winner but Mullow in control for 60 minutes of the game,
01:18Dan Casey seem to have turned into this set piece extraordinaire team over the course
01:23of the summer, Dan Casey heads us in front and dominating probably the game up until
01:29about 60 minutes, Benjamin Kempioka puts St Johnson back level, bit of a shaky 10-15 minutes
01:34but recovered after that and then Moses, late goal of Bailly, step him up again in the 94th
01:39minute to win the game, 3 wins on the spin and 7 points out of 12 heading into the international
01:46break, Calum, now that you've watched the game back, what are your general thoughts on it?
01:50I thought it was quite impressive actually, I think just going anywhere in this league
01:54is always quite a tough one, I think it doesn't really matter how you do it, it doesn't matter
01:57when you score, when you get 3 points you're never really going to complain, I think the
02:01manner it was in as well, I think you're right in saying it was a good performance, as much
02:05as you'd look at goal, you escaped a 2-1 win, it was a good performance, I think the St
02:10Johnson goal was against the run of play a little bit, I think the end it was maybe a
02:13little bit more even and the points could have been swung either way but I think the
02:18goal at the end just topped it all off and I don't think it was an undeserved 3 points
02:23and definitely a good performance to add to the tally.
02:26I think the performances maybe in the League Cup's group stage maybe got, maybe criticised
02:31as a bit harsh but certainly fans were left wanting a bit more but I think you can see
02:35now that you've had maybe 4 weeks or so on from those, you've given the new signings
02:40a bit of time to gel in, you can see there's, despite the injuries they've got, there's
02:43the component parts of a decent team starting to emerge.
02:47Yeah, definitely, I think you mentioned a big one there, you need to let these players
02:51spread in, we mentioned just briefly before we started, the sheer number of players that
02:54we've brought in is something you don't really see, I don't think I've ever really seen it
02:58in a time, I've seen us sign players a lot but not the sheer number we have this year
03:02so I think it will take time and I think that's a tough thing, you don't get that in football
03:05so I think to get these good results so early on is a good benchmark for the season, I think.
03:11You spoke on Saturday, Stuart, about the mood maybe about 3 weeks ago or so maybe being
03:17a bit negative and you could genuinely feel that, it was obviously a tumultuous summer
03:22with the Wild Sheep sport investment, that's obviously nothing to do with him but Mullow
03:26had made 10 signings by the middle of July or something like that and nobody was speaking
03:30about it, everybody was so focused on this sort of, will it want it in terms of investment,
03:35they dragged on and I think that fed into the negativity because it was quite divisive
03:41but now with the fullness of time that's passed, the Kilmarnock game I think was big even if
03:47the performance perhaps, you had to dig it out against a team with 10 men who were shot
03:52after European games, it was important and just drawing the line under that I think in
03:57terms of everyone that had been and it provided you the platform to go and beat Hearts comfortably,
04:02I know they're not in a great position at the minute but still Blair Spittles, well
04:08not arguably, was Mullows played in the season last season, playing on the opposite side
04:12so it still shows you the size of the task there and they managed to win that very comfortably,
04:18same again on Saturday even though it was 2-1 and you're scoring in the last minute
04:22to win it, the general performance was comfortable, perhaps not as good as the Hearts game but
04:27still it didn't need to be and that's equally as impressive to me that they managed to get
04:34a win in that manner where they don't need to go straight up to first gear and play at
04:38the top of their game, they managed to maybe play it 7 out of 10, get a decent result away
04:42from home, so I think there's general building blocks there, I think it will be interesting
04:47though when you actually get some of these guys back, I think they'd said he wasn't expecting
04:53M Day straight off the back of the international break, it would probably be with a view to
04:57the Dundee United Cup game that people will be back so I'd be interested to see who that
05:04is because I think Philippe Stuparevich has been down as a doubt for the last couple of
05:08weeks, Apostolos is six weeks as of the Rangers game so that would probably put him alongside
05:15Shane Blaney who I think was six weeks as well, sort of put them in sort of that start
05:19of October mould probably, so it'll be interesting to see who comes back, who comes back when
05:25but is there anybody in particular player-wise who has impressed you at the start of the season?
05:29I think Masvinicius probably won, I think that was kind of my biggest stand out, I think
05:34you kind of see him and it wasn't a massive kind of like pass and it wasn't something
05:38you jump your eyes and go oh what a sending but then I think it was the commandment game
05:42I think his first appearance was, I think I'm reticent on that and I think everyone
05:46instantly thought oh this guy's got a bit just, it's a little bit different, he's very
05:49direct, he can run with the ball, there's just a little bit about him and I think that's
05:52a bit refreshing, it's not something I think we've got really in the team, there's just
05:55a lot of good football players but no one that really can go and drive with the ball
05:58and go and make things happen so.
06:01Yeah, I think for me Liam, we'll go on to speak about the signings and well I'll leave,
06:06I'll part Liam Gordon now since we're going on to talk about signings, I'll speak about
06:09somebody who has been there and Sodds is obviously the one that's taken praise, we talked about
06:14him last week so I'll speak about Aston Oxburgh who I think's been, I know that maybe he'll
06:20be a bit disappointed with the goal on Saturday I would imagine so it goes through him a wee
06:24bit but over the piece I think he's been really, really transformative almost for that defence
06:29and that's nothing against Liam Kelly who obviously he was deputy to last season, I
06:33thought Liam Kelly, Scotland international while at Mullow, saved us from relegation
06:38in his first six months and generally was a very good captain behind the scenes as much
06:42as people maybe don't see that side of things, was a very good captain at Mullow but Aston
06:48Oxburgh I just think he brings a level of commanding and assuredness that perhaps wasn't
06:54there at times last season.
06:57Hello and welcome to the Hibs Hub with John Green and myself Ben Banks, right so I'm going
07:04to try and go through the list of incomings, not in a particular order of when they came
07:09in I should add but if there's any I'm missing just give me a nudge, Kieran Bowie, Marvin
07:16Ek-Poteta, Nicky Cadden, Warren O'Hara, Junior Hoylett, Jordan Smith, Jack Iredale who's
07:23listed as a left back as of transfer market but I think he's more of a centre half,
07:30Mikolaj Kukarevic, Josef Burszyk, Kwon and Nektar Triantis, I don't think I'm missing
07:36anybody, yeah that's the 11 and then sort of going out the way if you want to include
07:42the sort of ones that departed at the end of last season, then you've got Ewan Henderson,
07:47Dan Mackay, Paul Hanlon, Adam LaFondra, Lewis Stevenson, Joe Wallacott, Riley Harbottle,
07:53Dylan Ventes went out on loan, Jair Tavares was one of the deadline day departures, he
07:58went to Motherwell, Alain Delphier has gone to Luxembourg on loan on deadline day, Murray
08:03Johnson's at Airdrie and David Marshall's moved upstairs after retirement so I feel
08:09like from reading that list that I think this is kind of like a summer that it's almost
08:15been like a hot potato, who's going to get this summer where all these experienced guys
08:20are all pretty much going to go in the one summer just the way things have worked out
08:24and it's landed in David Gray's lap to try and fill that void, you know, I always think
08:29experience is a cliche, not just because you've got experience doesn't mean it's
08:33necessarily good experience but there does seem to be a big chunk of games whether that's
08:41at Hebs or Scottish football taking out of this team. Yeah I think that's a good observation,
08:47they've brought in talent, they've brought in types and characters but yeah probably
08:55limited experience in the Scottish game. It's noticeable even things like on the
09:01on deadline day Hebs were offered, is it Innocent Bonkey or Bonkey Innocent,
09:09I can't remember which way around his name goes, the FC Lorient midfielder.
09:16No but I mean like a 28 year old Nigerian international but played in Sweden and Holland
09:21and is now in France and they didn't go for him not because, this was through the Black Knight
09:28tie-in, they didn't go for him not because there was no desire to deal with the Black Knights,
09:32they didn't go with him because they felt Nectar Triantis was just a better bet because Nectar
09:38Triantis had played half a season last year in the Scottish Premiership and been through it,
09:43some of it at centre half which nobody likes to talk about but increasingly towards the end he
09:48was played in midfield and looked okay in a team that was struggling. So they've tried to get guys,
09:55Gray's very aware of it, even as a player and as a coach he's seen so many players come up
10:01from League One, League Two, Championship, wherever it is and not be anywhere near the pace of the
10:07Scottish game and he's seen the ones that have been able to tough it out and maybe get over that
10:12shell shock of being dropped out of a helicopter at 10,000 feet without a parachute, the ones that
10:19can get themselves over that quickly and the ones who just go and just disappear and end up feeling
10:24like I'm never going to get with this. So we will still be hoping obviously guys and again
10:30Marvin Ekpeteta played much better on Sunday and as I pointed out earlier he was in the right
10:35position when Obita gives away that penalty, Obita doesn't need to make that challenge because
10:40Marvin has done the right thing and covered for him. He got exactly textbook defending, exactly what
10:45you would want from him. Ohora is getting there a bit, I'm not sure, we don't know much about Jack
10:50Iredale but it's another 28-year-old playing League One with Bolton, two-year deal, I don't know, they
10:57needed a fourth centre half in the building with Rocky Bashiri there already, just you've got to
11:02get a fourth centre half, you pick the best one on your list right so you've got to imagine he's the
11:06best one that was left. Yeah I think they've brought some interesting ones in, obviously
11:11missing out on Luke McCowan was the one that will rankle with people. I actually
11:20heard someone today say to me that they thought Celtic could end up paying less upfront than
11:27Hibs were offering for McCowan. The deal's structured in such a way that it should rise to more
11:33than the million pounds and Malcolm McKay went on the record with me earlier this week and said
11:38the owner was willing to back that move to the tune of a million pounds. He volunteered that,
11:42it wasn't me grilling him, he just he wanted that to be known that it was a million pounds,
11:45that's what they were putting up from and I think Celtics was less upfront and may grow to be more than that.
12:04We'll skirt back to McCowan but just generally, so I have a nice wee title for this podcast take us
12:13sort of inside Hibs' transfer deadline day. I don't expect you to go through every gulp and
12:18splutter because we might be here for a lengthy podcast but just generally speaking what was it
12:22what was sort of your experience from sort of being in the middle of it really?
12:28Yeah there was a lot of phone calls, a lot of paddling underneath the surface like the
12:33Graceful Swan and it just looked like Serene at the top but there was a lot of work going on in
12:37the background even to get Nectar in the door. They were keen for him and they've been working
12:42on that for a few days and then there are the curveballs, you're getting thrown players you
12:48know because it's that, that spell seems to go from about 4pm onwards to 11. It just becomes mad
12:58and everyone everywhere is throwing players around, throwing darts at boards and throwing
13:04you know players into hats. So I think Malky would have taken about I don't know 60-70 calls
13:13that he would want to take plus a couple hundred others that he would have blanked on the night.
13:19Dre was there involved, he stayed at East Maidens to be involved in the whole thing,
13:24made sure everything went right. They didn't get the MacEwan thing,
13:32didn't really disappear until the last hour. I think it was 10 o'clock, 10pm I think was when
13:40Celtics, it was finally confirmed Celtic were just taking their time and working through their own
13:45list. So again you're at the mercy of that, of what that clubs are doing and they'll have been
13:51at the mercy of someone else doing something else. You know the clubs can do things on the
13:56other side of the world that have an impact on it. So that's how it went. I think the,
14:00and then the Iredale one just yeah it was very, very late. They snuck it in just under
14:07the deadline and then it wasn't confirmed until 20 past midnight and just the way things worked
14:12out. They had to make sure that all the paperwork was done and it's, anyone who's heard me talk
14:16about the SFA's lovely new comment system will attest that ain't easy. So I think there was a
14:24lot of sweating and a lot of nail biting went on. Yeah, in terms of the excess I think there was
14:30only really one that sort of that came about, Jair Tavares to Motherwell. I mean by the way
14:36I get the feeling that, I don't know what his future holds at Habs, I get the feeling that
14:41Stuart Kettlewell maybe sees him in the Theo Bear mould of you know, you've had a hard time,
14:46let me pick you up and try and turn you into something that others think I can't type thing.
14:51Would you see a future for Jair at Habs or do you think this is just going to be the case
14:55if we get to next summer and then see where we go? Yes, it's difficult because of the number of
15:02wide attacking players on the books now. When you look through that section, I did one halfway
15:09through the transfer window looking at how he was going to fit all these players in to this front
15:14four if you like. It's a shame because Jair's a lovely player, a great lad. I think he has got
15:21every chance of actually excelling at Motherwell because he's a good footballer, good professional.
15:28He can play wide, he can play in that number 10 position as well. He can play kind of an
15:36in-between the two. I think we probably saw his best games were when Nick Montgomery brought him
15:42back into the team when he was completely frozen out and he played them kind of wide left but with
15:48lots of license to drift infield and get involved with chance creation, scoring goals, things like
15:56that. So yeah, we'll see how he works out. I don't think he'd never say never in football because
16:02he could rip it up in Motherwell and then hims end up desperate for him back next season.
16:08And bear in mind, Junior Hoylett's only on a one-year deal as you would expect for a veteran
16:14player. So he may be away. And yet again, there's going to be 14, 15 players out of contract next
16:20summer. So although Hibbs would like to get to a situation where they're only bringing in two or
16:25three every window, they know that next season, this time next year is probably going to be
16:31just as frantic because they'll have players leaving.
16:35Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Hearts Digest podcast with Head & Braveden News
16:40Club correspondent Barry Anderson and me, Martin Simpson, your host. Very upset at the moment. You
16:47spoke to some people behind the scenes at Hearts this week and I think that's a good place to
16:52begin. Just tell us what's being said about, well firstly about Stephen Naismith. There's a few fans
17:00starting to call for his head. What's being said about him? What's being said about just the
17:06general sort of run of form that the team are on? Yeah, I mean the run of form is obviously
17:13dismal. There's not really another word to describe it. People in charge at Hearts are
17:19fully aware of that. They know that six defeats in the bounce is simply not acceptable and there
17:23needs to be drastic improvement there pretty quickly. Given the number of new signings,
17:29I think it's fair enough to expect people to need time to bed in but I would also say that
17:36there was a good enough core there to begin with that there's no way Hearts should be in this
17:40predicament joint bot with the Premiership table going into the first international break.
17:45So clearly there's work to be done to sort that out. There's no immediate plan to make any change
17:52regarding the manager. Stephen Naismith had a very good first season as Hearts manager
17:58and people are hoping that he's going to be able to turn this around
18:02and we'll give him a bit of time to do so. He's not going to get oodles of time. He's not going
18:08to be giving weeks and weeks and weeks. Let's be honest, when you're already on a run of six
18:14straight defeats then there's going to be pressure and there's going to be questions. There's going
18:19to be anger and frustration coming out of the stands as you saw yourself on Sunday, Martin,
18:25the Dundee United game. It happened in midweek after the European match against Victoria Pilsen.
18:30It's happened a couple of times before that as well. The supporters understandably want
18:34and demand a better level of performance and better results. I think this international break
18:40has probably come at a good time for Hearts in terms of trying to get everybody to regroup
18:44and sort out what's gone wrong, address issues on the park. But I think the thing is there are
18:50so many issues to address. There's the lack of energy, lack of sharpness. In some players
18:57you'd have to say lack of desire it seems at times. There's defensive errors coming in all over
19:04the place. It's cost them a number of goals this season. On the flip side of that, the opposite end
19:08of the pitch, they're not scoring goals. Two goals in seven competitive games. There's so many
19:13issues to try and work on and resolve that it's going to take an awful lot. It's going to take a
19:18pretty major turnaround for Hearts to get back on track. Look at the gap that Aberdeen have got
19:24ahead of them in the league. If you're saying that the main two rivals for third place, as they have
19:29been the last couple of seasons, then it's an enormous gap to try and close even after four matches.
19:37Celtic will be the first game after the break. If Stephen Naismith is in a precarious position,
19:46which again, nothing you've heard suggests that he is, but we do have to acknowledge, like you just
19:54said, things won't be allowed to go on like this. Something I found interesting was that after the
20:00match on Sunday, Naismith didn't come out until maybe about, it's hard to keep track of time
20:07because you're busy working, but maybe 20 to 30 minutes after full time before we saw him. He was
20:13asked a question about one of the players, I believe it was Frankie Kent's injury. He said,
20:20I don't know, I've not spoken to the players yet. You wonder what was going on in that
20:2820, 30 minute period after the match and between speaking to the press. It could have been
20:33nothing. It could have been completely innocuous or maybe there was just something he needed to do,
20:39or it could have been that he was having conversations with people above him. I'm not
20:45going to speculate on that any further because I quite frankly don't know. It was just something
20:51that I noticed, but to get back to my original point, it's the worst possible match for them
20:58after the break because you know, sometimes going to Celtic Park is a free hit, but
21:04when you're under pressure, it's not. Even say if Hearts put in a much improved performance
21:15and still got beat 1 or 2-0, as opposed to what most, if they play like they did against
21:20Dundee United, they will get absolutely scudded. It will go beyond 5-0 if they perform like they
21:26did against Dundee United, against Celtic, the way Celtic are playing. So if they put in an
21:31improved performance and lose 1 or 2-0, it almost feels like that doesn't help Stephen Naismith
21:38unless it somehow does give the players a bit of confidence going into the next match after that,
21:44which is St Mirren, correct? Yeah, next two games, Celtic away, St Mirren away,
21:52and then it's Ross County at home. Do I think Stephen Naismith will get the next three games?
21:58Yes, I do. You can never say never in football, it changes quickly, but I'm led to believe that
22:06there's every chance that that will happen and he'll get the next three to try and...
22:11He's earned that, hasn't he? ...stabilise. Yeah, I think you can't be
22:19one of these clubs, and we've seen that at Ibs, for example, where there's managerial
22:24changes every few months. That doesn't do anybody any favours. Now,
22:32people have their own opinions on whether Hearts should be changing the manager right now or not,
22:38but if every time you lose a couple of games on the bounce or three, four,
22:43five games on the bounce, you're going to change the manager, then you very quickly lose stability
22:49as a club, and you're also losing a bit of credibility as a club as well,
22:56if that's the sort of chopping and changing that you're doing. So
22:59I think certainly for the next three games, I think there's got to be some kind of improvement,
23:08some kind of discernible improvement in Hearts' performance, and then another look at it to see
23:15if there's a time of change. Because if there's no change and there's no
23:20change in performance or results, then yes, there's going to have to be a change.
23:26Well, as always, you can keep up to date with the latest Hearts news on our site.
23:30A big thank you for all your listens and feedback on the last few episodes.
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