The Roar: Sunderland transfer latest amid Tom Cannon bid
The Sunderland Echo's football writers discuss the latest transfer news and speculation.
The Tom Cannon bid comes under the spotlight, and Alex Mendy and Roko Simic are discussed.
The Tom Cannon bid comes under the spotlight, and Alex Mendy and Roko Simic are discussed.
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00:00we knew that a big sale was coming.
00:02But I think it's one that hopefully will reassure people a little bit that this is the
00:05this is the project in action if you like, so you have a big setback where you lose Clarke
00:10but hopefully that gives you the chance to go and do a deal that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to do.
00:15Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Sutherland Echo.
00:33My name is Jason Jones. I'm joined as always by James Copley and Phil Smith.
00:38Well, we might as well properly pile in that transfer to Arden because there is loads and
00:43loads to be getting through. I mean, the most recent report probably being Tom Cannon,
00:47obviously on the books at Leicester City at the moment, reports of a five million pound bid
00:52from Sunderland to try and prise him away from the King Power Stadium. I mean,
00:56what do we know about that at this stage?
00:58I'm looking at it thinking if the squad stays fairly similar now, Sunderland will try and
01:03sign two players. So we know that they're still very much in the race for Mendy.
01:08I think Tom Cannon is, it's probably a really good example of, you know,
01:11sorry to use the word but in inverted commas, the model, you know, Tom Cannon's a player who
01:15would have been out of Sunderland's price, well, he was out of Sunderland's price range last summer
01:19when he went to a Premier League parachute payment. The sale of Jack Clarke, I think,
01:23brings him potentially, possibly, you know, into their budget now. I think that he's clearly not
01:30in Leicester's plans. The big caveat is that there'd be all sorts of competition for him if
01:34he does go, but the Clarke fee puts Sunderland in a position that they could never have been in
01:40up until now. I think that it's unlikely that Sunderland, well, Sunderland, I don't think,
01:46would sign Cannon, Mendy and Simic. I think it's a case of all of these players have a number of
01:52options and in all of the cases, that still works to be done on fees and what have you.
01:56So I think Sunderland are trying to put themselves in a strong position with a number of players
01:59and it's really just a case of seeing which one's full. I think that's the reality of it.
02:04You know, I'm looking at it thinking, can I see Cannon and Simic both signing?
02:09Financially, I think it's tricky to see that. More than anything,
02:12I think both of those players are players who would come to Sunderland to play.
02:15You know, Simic isn't leaving, you know, a Champions League club not to play. Cannon
02:19isn't going to come to a club in the Championship where he's not going to play. So I find it hard
02:23to see them doing both of those deals. So I think you've got to put these reports into the context
02:27of where Sunderland are at, which is knowing that they need to strengthen up front, knowing that
02:31there's huge competition for players in these positions, particularly up front, which is the
02:35hardest one to do. And I think it's just a case of them being in the race for a number of players
02:39and just trying to work out which deal is going to be the right one for them.
02:42So, but I think the Cannon one, I think, you know, everyone will have their own opinions
02:47of them as a player. I've not really seen enough of them to know for sure, but I think it's one
02:51that hopefully will reassure people a little bit that this is the project in action, if you like.
02:56So you have a big setback where you lose Clarke, but hopefully that gives you the chance to go and
03:01do a deal that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to do. So yeah, it's going to be really
03:05interesting to see how that one develops. But I think the sheer level of championship competition
03:09that will exist if he does go, I think means that we shouldn't get too excited just yet.
03:15And I know you were saying last night, James, that you think in some respects, if Sunderland
03:19are going to go out and spend a substantial amount of money on a strike, Cannon kind of makes more
03:25sense in some respects. It does. It depends what you want, really. Obviously, Alexander Mendy has
03:31got a proven track record. He's played a lot of games. He's scored a lot of goals, albeit not in
03:35England. Tom Cannon might present a better option financially because he's nine years younger. So
03:41there's potential resale value. So if you're going to drop, you know, upwards of three million pounds
03:46or three million euros, anything to five, six, seven on a player, you're probably going to want
03:50to do it on a 21-year-old. The flip side of that is that Tom Cannon, just looking at his record
03:56here, he played 21 times for Preston North End, 16 times for Leicester City last season, and he's
04:02scored, I think, 11 goals. So he's not hugely experienced. You know, signing Tom Cannon,
04:08although hugely talented and highly rated, would present a little bit of a risk. But there's risk
04:12with both players, to be honest, because Mendy, you know, he's not EFL experienced. That could be
04:18a learning curve. We've seen that. He does have more experience of football and life in general
04:23than Tom Cannon, but it's really hard to judge. And I suppose it depends what you're like and
04:28what you're after. I do agree with Phil. I think we'll probably bring two of those three in. I
04:34think it's really interesting. We've had the Clark outgoing now, but will there be another one?
04:40Obviously, there's Pierre Ekwo reports, which I'm sure you'll come on to. But I think we're set for
04:46an interesting end to the window, sort of a flurry of business, really, with a few
04:51outgoing loans expected as well. But I think in terms of Le Model, as I've heard it dubbed, which
04:59I found quite funny, and a nice alternative to the model that we've all been talking about for
05:03quite some time, I do think that it's pleasing to see the sort of next stage of it,
05:10the next stage of it advance, if that makes sense, in terms of we knew that a big sale was coming.
05:16But I think a lot of Sunderland fans can make peace with that as long as it's reinvested,
05:19really, and reinvested well. And that's the big challenge for Christian Spiegel.
05:25Obviously, we've mentioned his name a couple of times, Alexandre Mendy. I mean,
05:29he's certainly not quieting down any. He really is still trying to push for this move to Sunderland.
05:35Well, yeah, from what I can understand, I think obviously, well, Mendy has been very,
05:40very clear in terms of what happened. There was obviously some kind of gentlemen's agreement in
05:44place last summer, that he would stay for another year and that then his club wouldn't stand in his
05:49way. What obviously has changed the picture completely is his takeover. So I think Sunderland
05:54were fairly, obviously, there was no deal done or anything like that. But I think they were fairly,
05:59fairly well along the line in terms of negotiations with the previous regime,
06:03which is why obviously, everybody kind of thought it was going to happen.
06:06The new regime, as is their right, by the way, because it's their club,
06:09obviously see things a bit differently. And that's all that's kind of stalled it.
06:13So from what I understand, Sunderland is definitely still keen to do it. They would
06:18like to sign Mendy. Mendy clearly still wants the move. You would think it would still be in
06:22his club's interest to get the deal done, because at the moment, he's not part of their plans. So,
06:26you know, you would think that they would want to just get a return on that.
06:30And so that leads me to think that there's still a really good chance it happens this week.
06:34The flip side to that is that this situation has obviously been going on for the best part
06:37of a month now, even a little bit longer now, I think. And as far as I'm aware,
06:41there is still a gap in valuation. So there's absolutely no guarantees it gets done.
06:45I think, as you alluded to there, the sheer strength with which Mendy has made
06:49clear he wants this move. And the fact that I know Sunderland is still,
06:53I wouldn't say waiting, because we've seen from all the players we've already discussed that they
06:56are looking at other options. I think the fact that they're still open to this leads me to think
07:01that there's a good chance it gets done. But, you know, someone is going to have to fold. And I'll
07:07be honest with you, from what we've seen from Sunderland over the last couple of years, it
07:10strikes me as highly unlikely to be them, because they're not, you know, this isn't a regime that,
07:15you know, quickly buckles and releases a lot more money, especially when it comes to signing
07:20strikers. So I don't know, it's a really hard one to judge. My gut tells me it will probably
07:23happen because of the sheer will. But, you know, Sunderland aren't going to, let's be blunt about
07:28it, Sunderland aren't going to go back to the table with another three million quid either.
07:32It's just not what they do. So, yeah, it's going to be a really, really interesting few days.
07:37I do find it pleasing, though, that Sunderland's eggs don't appear to be all in one basket. I think
07:42the Kiefer-Muir transfer debacle, it was very much Muir and bust, wasn't it? Or it appeared that way
07:48from an outside perspective. I'm sure they did have other irons in the fire, but that was the
07:52only really one we knew about. And that's certainly how it felt. But this time around, it appears like
07:57there's a few more irons in the fire, and that could only be a good thing, really. The caveat
08:01to that is, as Phil mentioned, the likes of Tom Cannon, there's going to be intense competition
08:05for him because he's extremely highly rated. If I could just come quickly back in on that
08:10point as well, I think what Sunderland would say as well is, whether people agree or not,
08:14is I think they would argue that was one of the reasons why they took that bid for Clark last week.
08:18I think maybe there's a little bit of a, they've changed their view on that a little bit because
08:24of what happened with Stewart last year. Obviously, if I remember rightly, obviously,
08:28Stewart went on deadline day, but I think the deal really started to progress the day before.
08:33Obviously, there was a few noises that whole week about Stewart going. I think it was the night
08:36before deadline day where it was actually sort of agreed, and that did leave them really,
08:40really short on time for a replacement. And I do think part of the logic in accepting that
08:44bid for Clark was that it did give them a full run, a full week at signing replacements. Now,
08:51when I say replacement, as we've discussed, I don't mean another left winger like Jack Clark.
08:55I mean, in terms of being able to go out and get attackers. And I think part of the logic was,
08:59is that when they'd been planning, as they obviously did potentially for Clark going
09:02earlier in the summer, you know, they obviously were looking at a number of players and some of
09:06those have already moved. And I do think the view was, look, if we can get some certainty on this
09:10now with Clark, it gives us a chance to move before some of these other names on our list,
09:15they all go and move. And I think Cannon's a great example of that because of the competition
09:18we've talked about. So, you know, I said last week, that fee, I would have considered keeping
09:23Clark because I feel like you should have still been able to go out and get one more striker
09:27and then see what happens next summer. But I think there's definitely part of the logic,
09:32I think, in accepting that bid for Clark was that it gave them this run at bringing in other
09:37players before they sort of sorted their own futures. And as well, just quickly, what I think
09:42we've got to remember is, you know, Eliza May and Annette did too against Sheffield Wednesday and
09:46had a reasonable game against Burnley as well. He's now a viable option for Sunderland. And I
09:51think that's hugely positive really, that he's got his first couple of goals for Sunderland
09:56and hopefully he can build on that. And obviously the third name that keeps on getting mentioned,
10:02again, already been mentioned in this podcast a couple of times, but Rocco Simic. I mean,
10:05can we just sort of clear up where Sunderland are in that respect? Yeah, well, I'm not sure in terms
10:12of where it's developed over the weekend. The last time I understood it was, so obviously,
10:16people will remember, I think it was Thursday, wasn't it, the reports? Well, not just in Austria,
10:21in various places saying that he's headed to Wearside for medical. Now, as far as I understand
10:25it, that wasn't the case, but he had had talks with the Sunderland hierarchy. So there was a lot
10:31of truth in it, but it wasn't the full truth. So the deal wasn't advanced at all, what he put.
10:37Sunderland has obviously been in talks and as I understand it, the player has had like direct
10:42one-to-one talks with the Sunderland hierarchy. So that's definitely a potential goer.
10:46Again, he's part of that puzzle. I think there is other interest in him. As I said, and this is just
10:51my gut, it's not sort of direct sort of inside report. My gut is that I don't see him and Cannon,
10:57for example, both coming at the same time. To me, they are both out-and-out nines. If you manage to
11:02land one of them, it's because they're going to come in and play and they're going to sort of
11:06lead your line. Could be wrong on that, but I just don't see both of them signing. Could I see one of
11:11them in Mendy, you know, as a slightly more experienced player? I probably could. So we'll
11:18wait and see on that one. I think a lot will depend on outgoings. I think if Ekwer was to go
11:23and there's been reports of interest ramping up in him, whether he does go or not is a different
11:28question. You would hope that maybe Sunderland could strengthen in that midfield. Obviously,
11:33they're playing three midfielders at the moment, a 10, an 8 and a 6. It's a long season. Sunderland
11:38play very fast-paced, pressing style. So you'd imagine, you know, Rigg, Jobb, Neil would need
11:45to drop out at some point. Neil's already suspended for one game. Obviously, you've got
11:48Alan Brown hanging around, which is hugely positive, but having sort of four players for
11:53three positions, I don't think would work. So I think if Ekwer went, you'd need to strengthen there.
12:04If Ekwer went, you'd need to strengthen there. Full-backs, possibly one as well.
12:10Obviously, Huggins is out injured. Sealt as well would probably deputise at full-back as well,
12:15but he's going to be injured for some time. You know, given Sirkin's injury record,
12:22it would be good, I think, to have some cover in that position. Aji Alesi could cover at left-back
12:27as well, but he's progressing at centre-back. Obviously, Dan Ballard to come back in at some
12:31point as well. But then you look at Aji Alesi's injury record and that is a little bit of a
12:37concern as well. So perhaps just a little bit of cover there. Interestingly enough,
12:43might not have been ready for regular first-team involvement, but Ollie Bainbridge might have been
12:47able to sort of cover that spot in the squad. Obviously, he's gone out to Kilmarnock now to
12:50further his development, so that's positive. So I just think there needs to be a bit of cover there.
12:54They might look at Joe Anderson at the moment as that sort of squad filler, but he's probably
13:00going to leave. So if he does go, then you are sort of seriously short on numbers in that position,
13:06I would suggest. But yeah, as we've mentioned on a lot of the podcasts during this window,
13:12so much depends on whether Sunderland can secure loans. I mean, if Zac Johnson goes out on loan,
13:17might have to look at another bit of cover there as well. You could argue that maybe Sunderland's
13:22slightly light on the left wing if Jefferson Bennett went out on loan as well, as probably
13:27expected at some point. So I think there's a lot of questions. Abdullah Barr on the right,
13:32obviously, they brought Perveda in, so that wouldn't be a priority, but he can play multiple
13:37positions and had a fairly decent output in terms of goals and assists last season. So it all
13:43depends, I think. And then you're looking at the wages going, the wages sort of coming back into
13:48the club that these players would vacate, and it can open up interesting opportunities. And we've
13:54actually seen Sunderland before spring a few surprises, haven't we, where they've announced
13:58deals that nobody's really had a clue about until they've happened. So I certainly wouldn't rule out
14:02something like that either. Obviously, a lot of potential outgoings between now and Friday. We
14:08might as well sort of take a closer look at some of those, dive into them in a little bit more detail.
14:13See, James mentioned there that Pierre Ekwert appears to be a man in demand, according to some
14:18reports on the continent. I mean, what's the latest with his situation? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely
14:25one that I could see happening. I think it's just, it's fairly obvious, I think, when you look
14:30at the dynamics of the squad at the moment, which is, you know, I mean, Ekwert was a little bit
14:34unfortunate and obviously that he missed a big chunk of pre-season with the back injury, which
14:37obviously put him well behind the other players. But even then, I think there were some signs,
14:42even in La Brice's really early pre-season selections, weren't there, that he might be
14:46looking at Regan and also Brown slightly ahead of Ekwert. And that's obviously just something
14:50that's continued while Ekwert's been recovering. At the moment, I don't get the impression,
14:56Sun and Dan are actively looking to move Ekwert on. I think at the moment, they're looking at
14:59Ekwert and we've got four central midfield options, which is the right number. You know,
15:04we think they're four good, good central midfield options and that's what we need for a long season.
15:08And I think the view internally is that it's on Ekwert to force his way into the team, basically,
15:13and it's up to him. Having said that, you know, if Ekwert feels there's an opportunity out there
15:18and Sunderland can bring in a decent fee, the fact that he is currently their fourth-choice
15:22central midfielder, I think means they would do it. Now, that's been the issue all summer
15:26and I know it was reported that Udinese came in with it, well, they did come in with it,
15:30with a kind of a formal initial offer quite early in the summer. I think that was in July. I think
15:34it was around the time Sunderland were in Spain. And sort of the word back from the club then was
15:38that it was an offer that was miles away that would make them even consider doing anything.
15:45Another report today from Futmacato say that Sunderland value him at about €7 million,
15:51which I think is probably about right for where he's at in terms of, is he the player that we
15:55saw against Southampton, against Preston on that final day of the previous season? Is he the player
15:59that we saw last season at times where he really struggled? Well, he's probably somewhere in the
16:03middle, right, with a lot of potential. So the thing for me is like, it's definitely one I could
16:08see happening, but Sunderland are going to push him out the door, which means that somebody has
16:12to fork out a decent fee. Is the market there for him? My instinct all summer has been that it's
16:17possibly not, that the clubs would be interested and probably can't hit that level that Sunderland
16:21want. But that's obviously something that could change in the final few days of the window. So
16:25I don't see that as an inevitability, but it's definitely one to watch. I don't see many,
16:30I think the outgoings this week is the vast majority is going to be sort of young players
16:34going out on loan, I think. But Ecuador is definitely one where there could be some movement,
16:38but I don't think it's nailed on. I think the question is whether somebody can meet the asking
16:42price. And as I say, it's Sunderland I'm looking to move him out. So it'll be an interesting one that.
16:50I mean, obviously, you're sort of saying that you believe that it'll probably be a lot of the
16:55less senior players who might be looking to leave on loan, but interesting development at the weekend
16:59when Adil Ashish and Abdul Abbar were both left out of the Manchester United squad against Burnley.
17:05I mean, where do you think Labrie stands on that?
17:10Yeah, well, I mean, he was really, really blunt in this post-match press conference,
17:14really, in saying that there's no kind of big story, really, but the door's open for them,
17:19but they'll have to work really hard. And I think that ultimately, it would have been
17:23slightly different if we were talking about this in two weeks' time when Sunderland had signed
17:27Isidor and maybe two other strikers, and you could go, well, somebody needs to make way in the squad.
17:32You know, it felt quite telling to me that Tommy Watson was there ahead of either two of those
17:35players. Now, I think Tommy Watson is a brilliantly talented young player, by the way, and I think
17:39he'll have a big future in the game, but it did feel quite telling that he was in there. And,
17:43you know, the fact that Pavetta, who at the moment hasn't actually played any football,
17:47was in ahead of Ashish Mbara, I thought that was quite telling. I do think Ashish is one where
17:51I could definitely see an exit. Again, he had a decent pre-season, we've shown flashes of talent
17:58from him over the last year. There is no reason why Sunderland would look to sort of rush him out.
18:02But I think from his perspective, he isn't getting past Job, is he? I think that's just
18:07the reality of the situation. Like, you know, Job, I think, you know, James and I talked about
18:12how highly we rate Job, and I think we both felt he was set for a big season. But there was an
18:16element of him coming into the campaign with, you know, fans kind of wondering about his place in
18:20the team and the fact that he played so much last year. Well, that debate's over, isn't it? He's
18:23been outstanding in the first three games of the season, so he's not going anywhere. And I think,
18:29you know, you've got Rigg, who can play in that slightly more attacking midfield role. You know,
18:34will Labriez consider playing two up front at times now that he's got Isidore? And there's all
18:37these little different things that I think it looks like really difficult for Ashish to play
18:41regularly. The other aspect, you know, is that the reason why Ashish came to Sunderland was because
18:48he wasn't getting games under Labriez at Lorient. So, you know, I'm not saying he's been out of
18:54full hour or anything, that's absolutely not the case. But, you know, is there something
18:57where he's just not Labriez's type of player? Maybe Labriez just doesn't see him as a regular
19:03starter. So I think that is one definitely to watch, because I think where he is at his career
19:08and the talent he's got, I really don't get the vibe that he's going to be happy picking up 20
19:12minutes here and there. And a potential barrage of defensive loonies as well. I'm just going to
19:18throw a few names at you, James, and just sort of give me your thoughts and opinions on them and
19:23perhaps where their future should lie, perhaps. You know, Black Johnson not included yesterday
19:29in the Under-21s game, a bit of a niggle there, Graham Murthy said, Elliot Anderson, sorry,
19:35Joe Anderson did play. And then aside from that as well, Timothy Pembele seems to be in a position
19:41where everything's just a little bit uncertain for him at the moment. I mean, what do you make
19:45of that trio over these last few days of the transfer window? I think Johnson's an interesting
19:50one because I think Labriez clearly quite likes him. He said that during pre-season,
19:55evidenced by the fact that he's made the bench a couple of times, obviously played against Preston.
19:59I think if you speak to Zach Johnson, he'd like to go out on loan and definitely play. I don't
20:03think he wants to sort of sit in between the Under-21s and the first team, just sort of
20:09being part of the squad and the set-up. He told me after Blackpool, he's greedy, he wants to play
20:15games, he wants to develop, he wants to have a similar experience to the experience he had at
20:19Dundalk last season, and he wants to have that at a higher level. And I admire that as well,
20:25so I think that's certainly what to watch. The caveat to that is that some do need cover
20:30at first team level in those positions. I'm not saying that Zach Johnson is first team ready, but
20:35he is an option that can fill a slot on the bench, can play right back and centre-back,
20:39and that will certainly weigh on the decision-makers' thinking when it comes to Johnson.
20:45I think Pembele probably expecting to leave. Obviously, there was some interest from France
20:49that Phil wrote about yesterday. It's clear, isn't it, really, that Labriez doesn't see him
20:55as part of his first team squad at all. Who was the third one? Joe Anderson. He obviously played
21:01last night, didn't he, which you would suspect means that there's nothing close regarding Joe
21:07Anderson. I think he needs to go permanently, to be honest. I think he's been at Sunderland long
21:11enough. It's not quite worked. I think there is a player there that can go and have a good career in
21:16the AFL somewhere, but I'm just not sure whether the loan move benefits him or Sunderland, really,
21:22and I think permanently for him to have a home to go and play and to go and build his career
21:29further, I think that would be the best option for all parties. Whether that can happen or not,
21:32I'm not sure. What sort of fee Sunderland would want, if any, I don't know. It may well be that
21:38a decent loan move presents itself and they go with that instead. So, yes, there's just so many
21:44variables with these transfers and a lot of them are certainly ones to watch. Fast-moving as well,
21:50I think. We could get off this podcast now and it could be an entirely different Joe Anderson
21:54update. So, yes, I definitely want to watch. And finally, Phil, we'll round out with just a
22:01quick word on Hector Triantis. I mean, he's another one who we've had reports suggesting
22:05that there is potential interest in him, but obviously he was involved with the first team
22:10Saturday. He came off the bench when Sunderland just needed to sort of show things up in those
22:13final moments against Burnley. I mean, do you see him sticking around at the stadium
22:17of late this summer? I don't see them all going. I think that would be the simplest way to put it.
22:21I think right now, I don't think Johnson, Anderson and Triantis can all go out on loan
22:27because I don't think there's enough cover at central defence. And that's a really tricky one
22:32because Sunderland won't want to over-invest in that position and load up too many players on
22:36permanent deals because Jenson Seal is going to be a big player for the future. We know that.
22:42And he is going to be back sometime in the season. At the same time, he's not close to a comeback,
22:47so you need to make sure you've got enough cover. So my instinct at the moment is that maybe
22:51Triantis would be the one who stays because I think he's the most first-team ready of the three,
22:54certainly got the most senior experience. So as it stands, Triantis could go, but I think that
23:01would be a reflection of there not being a deal there for, say, an Anderson or a Johnson that
23:06the club really likes. You've obviously got Yelder as well, and with Ballard coming back to fitness,
23:10there is a chance it could happen, but I think it would be a little bit of a risk at the moment to
23:14let all three go, especially when you consider that there's really no right back cover for
23:19Traheim. I think it's obvious Pembele is not going to be involved, even if a loan doesn't happen. So
23:24I think of the three, I think Triantis is probably the one most likely to stay,
23:30but I'd be surprised if all three went.