Phil is back to discuss Sunderland's draw with Blackburn Rovers in depth and to answer questions from readers
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00:00Morning everyone and welcome to the latest edition of On The Whistle where we're going
00:13to chat through Summoning 2 Blackburn Rovers 2. As ever we're going to answer some of your
00:17questions and discuss some of your comments and thoughts on the game. A little bit of
00:21housekeeping first up, you may or may not have noticed that I did a bit of a bonus video
00:25yesterday. I published it pretty much straight after the final whistle from the press box
00:29in Inwood Park. Something I wanted to do for those of you who might want a little bit of
00:33instant reaction on a Saturday night, I'd just give a mini report from the game and
00:37in the style of the old Saturday night football pink newspapers hand out my three gold stars
00:42to the Summoning players who I think performed best. So as ever, have a look, let us know
00:47if you like it, I'll keep doing it. If you don't like it, let me know and we'll get rid
00:51of it. It won't change On The Whistle, we'll keep doing that on a Sunday morning when I've
00:55got a bit more time at home to give you questions the full time they deserve. But yeah, have
01:01a look and let us know what you think. It's also a chance as well for those of you who
01:04aren't over on Blue Sky, that initial full-time whistle video, you'll be able to leave your
01:08comments under the video there as well, which I can then come to on Sunday morning for On
01:12The Whistle. So let us know what you think. But without further ado, I'll have a quick
01:16sip of coffee and then we'll get into the game. As I was sort of saying on my sort of
01:22instant reaction video last night, I thought the first half I was really, really impressed
01:26with Blackburn. I thought that, you know, ultimately there was a reason why they'd won
01:31six of their previous seven games. That win and run had come to an end on Saturday when
01:37they'd lost to Millwall on the 90th minute, but that was heavily impacted by the fact
01:40that they were down to 10 at the time. I thought they were really, really organised. I thought
01:45that, you know, it's an interesting one to me in that I think in the end that yesterday,
01:52I think before the game, I would have been disappointed but also fairly satisfied with
01:56the point. I think the Blackburn Rovers were heavily tipped for relegation by a lot of
02:00people before the season, which I understood from a perspective of there hasn't been a
02:03huge investment in that club and that squad for a while now. But I think anybody who saw
02:09what John Eustace did with his Birmingham City team in very, very challenging off-pitch
02:14circumstances knew that they would be tough to beat this season, that they would be really
02:19well organised. I thought we saw that. I thought their athleticism, their desire to
02:22press and their defensive organisation was excellent. And what I think Eustace has done
02:27really cannily, he's added some little bits of quality as well in the final third. And
02:31I suppose it's a lesson for us all that for football to be good to watch, it doesn't have
02:35to be dominating the ball for 80, 90% of the game. Blackburn were happy to concede possession
02:41but when they won it back, Dolan and Campbell, I thought their little sort of one-touch play
02:46was a bit of a treat to watch in the first half. Sunderland, to their credit, again rebounded
02:52sort of really, really strongly after the break. And the irony is that in a 15, 20-minute
02:57spell, they actually could have finished the game. They scored two good goals completely
03:02on top, brilliant finish from Isidore, of course. As we mentioned yesterday, we talked
03:07quite a bit in the instant reaction video about Dan Neil, who I thought was excellent,
03:10great work for both of the goals, Patrick Roberts too. And then there were some big
03:13chances there that Sunderland had to take to win the game. So overall, my feeling was
03:18that it was a fair point. I think if you look at the statistics from the game, I think realistically,
03:23yes, Sunderland missed their chances to win it, especially at the end when Mienda runs
03:27through one-on-one, a huge chance to secure all three points. But I think if you look
03:31at the data in terms of shots on target, expected goals, I think Blackburn can say that they
03:37deserved a point very much, I think, especially because I think in the first half Sunderland
03:41were lucky to come through it. It was interesting speaking to Rajeev Sabhris after the game.
03:44It's not the first time we've done this where we're trying to get to the bottom of what
03:48changed between the first half and the second half. There have been times when we know he's
03:51not much of a ranter and raver, so it's never about big sort of half-time speeches. But
03:55there have been times when he said there's felt there's been a tactical problem that
03:59he's had to fix. Swansea was one example where he felt there was a specific issue down
04:03Sunderland's left-hand side, which he had to fix and that led to Sunderland's comeback.
04:07On this occasion, he just said that he felt that all over the pitch, basically, Sunderland
04:11were playing at 60-70 per cent. They were coming across against a well-organised, intense,
04:16good side and they just weren't up to the level and they got found out. His verdict
04:19was kind of as simple as that. I think that's kind of the interesting thing about this team
04:23right now, is that they're consistent and that they're always competitive. They keep
04:28churning out results. Their score goes regularly because of the quality they've got on the
04:32team. But they're also consistently inconsistent, as in it's very, very rare for them to put
04:39in a 90-minute performance, if you like, at the moment. And I think for me personally,
04:44I think that sums up a little bit where Sunderland are as a team right now. Fantastic to watch
04:48at times. They've got a spirit that you just can't help but kind of get behind. I think
04:51we saw that yet again yesterday and they keep going right till the end. They believe that
04:55they're going to win every game. At times, the football is brilliant to watch, dynamic,
05:00so much energy. But at the moment, I think there's an inconsistency within games that
05:06I think is probably why at the moment I find it difficult, as things stand, to see them
05:11sort of going all the way with Leeds, Sheffield United and Burnley. I think at the moment
05:15they will have to find something a little bit extra if they want to do that. But I still
05:19feel really optimistic and confident about the season in terms of the playoffs. And I
05:23think, as we'll get to in a bit, whether they can reach the top two, it's going to depend
05:27a lot on the injury situation and maybe a little bit on January as well. So all in all,
05:31I thought it was a fair point and a good point. I don't think it's one to be sniffed at. I
05:35have a lot of respect specifically for John Eustace and also that Blackburn team he's
05:39built. I don't think going away there and getting a point is a bad result for any team
05:43in this division personally. However, obviously some of the circumstances around it were a
05:47little bit frustrating and I think there's that element of concern. Again, we know that
05:54it feels weird because we keep saying it and it doesn't actually happen, but we know at
05:57some point if someone keeps conceding the first goal, they're going to start dropping
06:00points. That's definitely something that needs to be looked at.
06:06Without further ado, let's get into your questions. So SJ, this one's over on YouTube. He put
06:10a comment under our video last night saying, who's playing in midfield now? Potentially
06:15no Regan, no one to replace him. So I thought I'd start with this one. So obviously one
06:19of the big concerns, well, arguably the biggest concern from yesterday's game really was with
06:23just a few minutes ago, Chris Rigg went down and the incident was off the ball. There wasn't
06:27really anyone around him. He was in a lot of pain. You could tell he was in a lot of
06:33discomfort when he was being treated by the physios. He didn't make any attempt to return
06:37to the pitch. As soon as he'd been treated and stood up, he went straight down the tunnel
06:42and Auschwitz came on a minute or two later. So Lebris had played with 10 men. Now I asked
06:46Lebris about this after the game and at that point he didn't have a diagnosis. That was
06:51something that would happen this morning. The club would find out. So I don't want to
06:54speculate too much about the severity of the injury because I don't think that would be
06:57right and we'll wait until we have the full info. But I think from our understanding,
07:01Rigg did leave the game in a protective boot. When you've got as many games coming up in a
07:06short space of time as Southerland are, I think it's fair to say that it makes them a major doubt
07:10for the games that are coming up. It doesn't mean you won't play. We'll have to wait and see.
07:14Hopefully it's just precautionary. But I think certainly it's something where
07:18that is a big concern for Southerland moving into this next few block of fixtures.
07:22And I think as that question kind of alludes to, it's a bit of a tricky one for Lebris because
07:27there's no real midfield options. So I think there's two things he can go with.
07:32The obvious one is Aushish because I think that he's proven that he probably can be trusted and
07:37deserves to go in the side because of his cameo appearances. What was interesting was that in
07:42the last stages of the game, what we've seen consistently from Lebris this season is that
07:47he doesn't really like playing Aushish in central areas. The exact reason for that,
07:51we're not quite sure. I think it's fair to say that while he thinks Aushish is a real talent
07:56who can change the game, can do something special, create something, nothing. I think
08:00there seems to be a feeling that he can also disrupt the shape and the structure of the team
08:06because he's a little bit of a maverick in the way he plays, which I think is why Lebris has
08:09always preferred to play him out wide. I think that was why, for example, if you look at Millwall
08:14earlier in the season, he didn't play Aushish as a 10, even though the option was there to do so.
08:20But I wonder if the calibre of Aushish's training performances and the way that he's made an impact
08:24off the bench in recent weeks might mean Lebris gives him that opportunity. I think it would be
08:28fair to say he's deserved it. And obviously, yes, they did come on in the central role,
08:33so I wonder if that's just a bit of a sign from Lebris that his trust in Aushish has grown a
08:37little bit. The other option, of course, is to do what he did at Millwall, where I thought Aaron
08:41Connolly was effective as a number 10, worked really hard, linked up nicely at times and scored
08:45a really good goal. It's been an interesting one, Connolly, because obviously his minutes
08:49hasn't had many minutes of lay actually since that Millwall game. As I mentioned on, I think,
08:54the last video, I asked Lebris about this about a week ago and he said that he definitely felt
08:59that there'd been a little bit of a dip with Connolly, which Lebris thought was inevitable.
09:03He came into the club, sort of a fresh start for him, had a huge sort of energy, if you like,
09:10from that, a lot of positive energy from coming in, a fresh start, being back involved in football.
09:14Lebris felt a little bit of a dip was inevitable. But he also said that he felt in the last week
09:19or two he'd seen Connolly get back to sort of where he'd been when he first came into the club.
09:23So potentially there's an avenue for him to get back into the side there if Rigg is unavailable.
09:27I think those are the two main options. I think sitting here right now,
09:31I wonder if he might go with Connolly, just because of that sort of championship experience,
09:36also because he did the role well at Millwall. But I think potentially Auschwitz deserves an
09:40opportunity as well. So let's have a look at the sort of big topic that pretty much everyone was
09:46asking about. Let me just have a little bit of a sip of coffee before we go
09:50into this one. So Chris Liddell says we'd have taken a point beforehand. Disappointed.
09:55Cough up a late goal. We were poor in the first half. Can't complain. As I said before,
09:59Chris, completely agree with that. What is slightly worrying is that a combination of
10:03poor start and RLB's reluctance to freshen things up with subs may cost us points.
10:09Michael says is Riggis going to start using his bench? I understand that players like Aleksic
10:14may not be quite ready to play tough minutes away from home, but surely fresh legs is better
10:18than tired ones, especially when opposing teams have made changes themselves.
10:23Davey says a lack of trust in the bench is costing us now. Two on up away from home with
10:28players tiring and the only change we make is enforced through Riggis' injury. Surely Connolly,
10:33Perveda, Alissa and Auschwitz, to name a few, would have been able to make a meaningful
10:37contribution to help us see the win out. Stu's then replied to Davey and says this for me,
10:42I'd add Jones to that list too. I like him a lot and would love to see more of him.
10:46I've no problem with a lack of rotation in starting line-ups, but if you're going to play
10:50the same players over and over, you need to make better use of your subs. Yeah, Stu, it's a good
10:54point. I should have added Harrison Jones to that early list. Of course, he's been one of the best
10:57players in the U21s for the last 12 months or so. He's a centre midfielder, definitely an option.
11:03I think maybe to start, not what Stu suggested, but just to go back to that original point,
11:08maybe to start away from home with Championship games, a step too far for him probably,
11:12but he is someone we should consider as part of that category, just signed a new contract at the
11:16club as well, which is great news. But yeah, there was obviously a very, very clear contrast yesterday
11:22between the way the two managers used their bench in that game. Now, obviously, the onus with Blackburn
11:27at home and trailing for much of the second half is on them more to try and change things,
11:31but he's just made all five of his subs, two of them double substitutions quite early in the half.
11:36You know, one of them I felt was actually really took away from what they did. I loved Yuki Ohashi,
11:42what a brilliant performance. This is a complete nightmare for some defenders.
11:46Never stopped running, never stopped snapping at their ankles and showed some real quality too.
11:51Not only did he score that goal where he was in the right place at the right time,
11:54a lovely little pass to set up Owen Beck straight after the first goal that should have gone in
11:59and that would have been pretty much game over, I think, at that stage. So, a great player. Him
12:03coming off that really impacted Blackburn, which I was surprised at the time. A few of you quite
12:07rightly on my reaction video pointing out that he had made a few fouls and was on a yellow card,
12:11so maybe that was part of John Eustace's thinking. I think that, for sure, it's a huge talking point
12:18and it's something that I've been really frustrated with at times this season, especially away from
12:21home. I feel like at times someone has been crying out for a few fresh legs. I knew that this was a
12:26big talking point with all of you after the game. I did ask Lebrace about it. His view was
12:34basically that the game had become so open and so quick that he felt it was going to be really
12:45difficult for the players he had to come on to get up to the rhythm of it and to make an impact.
12:52And I think if you look at the options he has on the bench, obviously, Alisa I think is definitely
12:58a defensive option who you know can trust to bring on, but he didn't want to seem to disrupt
13:02his defence in that kind of game. And I think he maybe felt the players such as Oleksiić,
13:07Pavade, who's obviously not had many minutes recently, I think he felt that the kind of
13:11feared words and instability of the game would have made it difficult for them to get up to speed.
13:16The other point he made, which I think is probably a more pertinent point from his perspective,
13:21is that he feels that his strategy generally over the season has worked quite well,
13:26and that you can't, you shouldn't just go back after one game where something's conceded late.
13:30And as he said, he would say, rewrite the story and say it's because of a lack of subs.
13:35And I would say that at times I've been sat in there crying out for loads of subs. For example,
13:39at Swansea, I thought he should have made subs at half time. In the end, he was completely vindicated
13:44and not made any substitutions. Him always holding his nerve and trusting in the game plan and with
13:49a few tweaks really paid off. So I think we should acknowledge that there are times where it
13:52has worked. I do have concerns. There are definite games where I think some of them have lacked some
13:57fresh legs. I thought maybe, you know, maybe last night would have been a good opportunity to put
14:01Pavade on in an open game where there would have been space for him. But I think my main concern
14:08really is just in fatigue. I think sometimes you're using the same sort of 12 or 13 players
14:12at the moment every single game. And that workload for me is potentially just going to be too much,
14:18especially through this festive schedule. So that's my biggest sort of concern. I don't
14:24necessarily think the lack of subs is the reason that Sunderland drew yesterday. You know, they did
14:30create chances after their second goal. They could have put the game to bed. And in terms of the goal
14:34they conceded, it's a ball into the box that, you know, yes, Sunderland can defend it better,
14:39but that can happen in the championship late in games. You know, it falls kindly for Harry Leonard.
14:43I'm not sure that's the specific reason they drew this game personally, although I would have liked
14:48to have seen more subs. As I said, I thought it would have been a good opportunity for Pavade.
14:52My bigger concern is, you know, you've got another game on Sunday now with potentially
14:55Rigg injured, another game against Sheffield United just a couple of days after that.
15:00I do worry about the fatigue and the squad and the workload that's being put on some of these
15:05players. For me, it has to be a factor. We're talking about this inconsistency within games.
15:10I think fatigue has to be a factor within that. So that is definitely something that I'm a little
15:15bit worried about moving forward. Not so much just purely on this game, but just the general
15:19impact on the squad. So, yeah, hopefully, I think it's a really difficult one to have an answer to
15:24that, but hopefully I've given you a little bit of an insight into Labreece's thinking. I think
15:27he's very, very different to someone like Tony Mowbray, who thinks that you should almost shake
15:32things up a little bit. You know, Labreece is very, very, feels it's difficult for substitutes
15:39to impact the game. He has the game plan. He thinks the best thing is, by and large,
15:45he makes substitutions in some situations, but I think he feels, by and large, that it's best for
15:49the players who are out there, who can feel the rhythm of the game, who are up to speed, who
15:53understand the problems on the pitch from having been on it. So, hopefully, that gives you a little
16:00bit of an insight into his thinking. Here's another question from me. He says, how good has
16:05Daniel been in the last half dozen games, quickly establishing himself as one of the best holding
16:09midfielders in the championship, also producing captains' performances by taking games by the
16:14scruff of the neck when needed? Yeah, totally agree. I thought Daniel was the send-out player.
16:19Discussed it a little bit on my reaction video yesterday. I thought he produced an excellent
16:23performance. First half, I thought he was Sunderland's best player when, you know, the
16:27team wasn't performing very well, and I think he got his rewards in the second half when the team
16:31around him started performing better. Obviously, a big hand in both the goals. It's an interesting
16:36one with Dan because I spoke after the Swansea game, I told you how I'd spoken to him, and he
16:41said that, you know, he felt he was getting to grips with that number six role, but also
16:44specifically because he had a certain way that he wanted to play it. We know that Daniel wants
16:49to drive forward, he wants to play aggressive passes. Basically, I think, probably understandably,
16:54he was playing a little bit safe at the start of the season because of the discipline that role
16:58requires. I think what we're starting to see now, he's growing a little bit of confidence to play
17:02his own game in that position, and I think yesterday was a great example of that. You know, he took
17:06risks at times in turning away from players when there was a lot of pressure on him, a lot of, sort
17:10of, black and brown were pressing him, play some ambitious passes. It's risk, but the thing with
17:16Dan is we know he's got the quality to pull it off. He's a really, really talented player,
17:20and I think what we're starting to see now is him growing in confidence to impose himself on games
17:24and do that position his way. I still think, hopefully, when Sam Edds fit, you know, you can
17:28see Dan playing a little bit further forward at times, and I think that's going to be a big weapon
17:32for Sunderland, but I think we're seeing him growing in stature in that position and start to
17:37play it his way rather than maybe the way that, you know, traditionally we would expect to hold
17:41the midfield at a player. So, I agree, and I think you're right to point that out, and I think that's
17:45a big positive from yesterday, again, was a continuation of his good form. And I just wanted to
17:52finish with a couple of points that I thought were good on Blue Sky. Richie Blackburn says,
17:57is January now more important than ever with Chris Rigg's injury and the glaring lack of depth in the
18:01squad at the minute? Yeah, as you say, Richie, don't quite know. Hopefully Rigg's injury is not
18:05too serious. And Codders73 says, they're buying large young lads. They will tire as well as
18:12blowing hot and cold in the game. What do you expect? The bench is untested slash rusty.
18:16Definitely a factor in why La Brea doesn't make them too many subs. There's just a huge gap in
18:21terms of championship experience and minutes between the start and the end of the bench.
18:25I suppose, Codders, the point is a little bit, isn't it? Is it the chicken and the egg? You know,
18:30do you need to give them experience and minutes by putting them on and taking that gamble?
18:35I think that's the really difficult one to get to the bottom of at the moment. But you're absolutely
18:38right on your point. However, he finishes it saying, a couple of Mepham-style signings will
18:42do wonders for the second half of the season. I totally agree with that. And I actually spoke
18:46with La Brea about that. It is pretty much press conference on Christmas Eve where I said,
18:50because he's been talking a lot about how it's quality over quantity for Sunderland. And I kind
18:56of said, you know, is Mepham the kind of player you're looking to target? Not necessarily just
19:00a Premier League loan, but is that the kind of model someone who should be able to impact the
19:04team from day one because of the experience they've got at this level and the experience
19:09they've got in the game? And he agreed. He said that was definitely the kind of player they would
19:13target. Listen, we know with Sunderland, if there's a young player out there that's been
19:16tracking who becomes available, they'll do it. You know, last year was the classic example where
19:20none of us went into January thinking a left winger was the priority. But Romain Mundel
19:25was a player they tried to sign in the summer. He'd gone to Belgium instead. Unexpectedly became
19:29available. They liked him. They had the finances there. So they signed him. And, you know, that
19:34turned out to be a great sign in the long run. So they might do something like that, of course.
19:38But I think there's definitely a shift in this window where the priority is to try and sign one
19:42or two proven operators who can impact the team now. And I totally agree with that. I think yesterday
19:48was a great example where a bit more proven quality would have been absolutely key. I think
19:52January is going to be a really important window. Equally important, of course, is going to be
19:56getting Alan Brown back, Romain Mundel back, Dan Ballard back. Hopefully, Salih Sabdo and Sam Ed
20:02coming into the team. I think that's obviously going to be massive. But yeah, it's going to be
20:05a really important month. I think, as I said, at the moment, you know, we shouldn't put any sort
20:10of limits on this team. I think they've got everything to go and be a fantastic team who
20:15can compete for the top two. But I think at the moment, they need a little bit more. And January
20:18is going to be really important. So there we go. I've managed to speak for 20 minutes again
20:22somehow, but hopefully you enjoyed that discussion about something too, Blackburn Rovers too.
20:27Thanks as ever for watching, and we'll be back after this talk again.