Phil Smith discusses Sunderland 0-0 Preston North End and answers questions from fans
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00:00Hi everyone and welcome to the latest edition of On The Whistle. We're going to have a little
00:14morning chat through Sunderland 0, Preston North End 0. A bit bleary-eyed as I'm sure
00:19anyone who made the trip to Preston is feeling the same this morning. 5,000 fans in the away
00:24end. An incredible turnout for a midweek game, especially after what turned into being
00:29a really, really long journey as well. So shout out to anyone who made that trip. It's
00:34incredible following Sunderland around the country. The away support never really ceases
00:38to amaze you, but that was another example of it last night.
00:42As for the game, I think that it's the kind of game that ultimately you get in the Championship
00:47every now and then. Especially in the midweek game, I thought there was a lot of fatigue
00:51in both teams. By the end of it, to be honest, I think both teams were completely burnt out.
00:56I thought you saw a real lack of quality in the final third through the last 20-25 minutes
01:01of the game. I never really felt like either team was going to score, even if there was
01:04quite a lot of space on the pitch. I think we have to be pretty honest from a Sunderland
01:09perspective and say that they were very, very fortunate to get to half-time 0-0. I thought
01:13that Preston were fairly clearly and comfortably the best team in the first half. They had
01:20the better of the chances. Simon Moore made one really good save just before half-time.
01:24I think credit to Simon Moore, he's been really good since he came into the side. A really
01:27steady pair of hands. There was a couple of headers that went just wide that Preston should
01:31have done better from. Slightly disagreed with Paul Heckenbottom after the game when
01:35he said that Chris Mepham should have been sent off in the first five minutes. I'm sure
01:40most of you remember the incident where Sam Greenwood was going through and Mepham's just
01:44sort of, you guess, the other side of Mepham who brings him down.
01:49When I initially saw it live, I thought Mepham had been really lucky because it seemed very
01:54obvious that he was the last man that Greenwood was running through on goal and it was a red
01:57card. Watching it back, I'm not sure it's quite that clear cut. Greenwood steps across
02:02Mepham. I don't think it's clear that he's running towards goal. I don't think it's clear
02:07that his next touch is clearly going to be a shot on goal. I'm not absolutely convinced
02:11it was a clear denial of a goal-scoring opportunity. Listen, I think there's a chance Mepham could
02:16have been sent off. I'm not saying it was clearly the right decision. I'm just saying
02:20it's not as obvious as I thought it was at first and I slightly disagreed with Paul Heckenbottom
02:24on that, the Preston manager. However, I do agree that his team played really well in
02:28the first half. I thought they pressed really aggressively. I thought they were really brave.
02:32They got their wing-backs really high up the pitch and we saw them cause Sunderland a lot
02:35of problems and I think it's just more evidence really that Sunderland are still, in a lot
02:40of areas, a work in progress under Regis Le Brise. I thought they were outplayed. Second
02:45half, not so much. I thought that Sunderland were much better. They saw a lot more of the
02:47ball. They had a lot more control. However, they just couldn't really turn that into clear
02:52chances and although there was a big injection of energy when Patrick Roberts and Romain
02:55Mundell came on and there was a 5-10 minute period there where you felt like they were
02:59the more likely team to go on and win it, you have to say that it did fizzle out and
03:03even for all their improvements in the second half, it wasn't until stoppage time when Freddie
03:07Woodman had to make a save off Patrick Roberts at his near post. So, not a vintage performance
03:12from Sunderland. I think that you could tell clearly from both the players and the head
03:16coach afterwards that they were really disappointed with the performance. I think that's encouraging
03:20that they could clearly see that there was a lot more to come from them and that they
03:23were a little bit fortunate to take something from the game. The flip side of that is yet
03:27another clean sheet, another point dug out on the road. There's some really pleasing
03:31traits about this team. He seemed to find ways of getting results and that's definitely
03:35something we should celebrate. Let's remember the Championship was a long season and it's
03:39a real grind. So, let's get into your questions. A lot of them kind of around a similar theme
03:44so I might be repeating myself a little bit but hopefully we can still have a good discussion.
03:49So, Chris says, a bit surprising considering RLB's comments about partnerships on the flanks
03:53to see the changes tonight. It didn't really work, did it? We were much less effective.
03:58I agree Chris. Listen, it was obvious that the changes didn't work. I think that the
04:03most obvious thing really was that Roberts and Mundell came on. It was not just that
04:07they looked a threat. Actually, you saw both full-backs come into the game more. Serkin
04:11got forward way more than he had previously when Mundell came on, similar with Hulme and
04:16Roberts on the right. You could see that Roberts brought Rigg back into the game after he'd
04:20gone a bit quiet in the second half. In a strange kind of way, I think that almost proves
04:25why Labriez did it and I really don't want to be hypocritical when I say that it didn't
04:33work because we've been talking a lot about a lack of rotation. We've been talking a lot
04:37about how long a season it is and that Labriez is going to have to use different options.
04:40I think we saw last night why he does have to do that because you need to give these
04:44players time to build connections on the pitch. You need to integrate these players so that
04:49they're ready when you need them because we know that this very, very young side is not
04:54going to be able to play 46 games. It's not going to consistently churn out three-game
04:58weeks and deliver the level of performance we expect. So, I totally agree with you, Chris.
05:02It didn't work and I think we saw that when the changes were made. There's something
05:05that looked a lot more like the Royal Sels. But at the same time, I think it almost proved
05:10Labriez's point about why he does need to get these players involved because it's very,
05:13very important that they get those match minutes and they're ready in future when they need
05:16it again, which they absolutely would be. However, there was a couple of things that
05:20I wasn't entirely sure about and I think we'll go on to that now. Yeah, this is again from
05:25the East Eds. Thanks for sending your question in. It says, will this be the first and only
05:27time we see East or on the left, Watson on the right and Connolly up front? Neither of
05:31the wingers look comfortable and Connolly is still lacking match fitness. Yeah, I think
05:36Connolly is building his sharpness. I think we have to expect that. He was very isolated
05:41in the first half, so I'm not going to be too critical of his performance. I think we
05:43all know we've seen it with lots of strikers over recent years. Sometimes you need players
05:48around you. You need your team to be having a lot of ball high up the pitch to be involved.
05:52But yeah, he definitely looked like he was lacking a bit of sharpness, albeit he nearly
05:56scored just before half-time, which could have been the winning goal. I can understand
06:00East Edo playing on the left. It's a position he's comfortable with. I'm not sure about
06:04Watson on the right. It's absolutely not a criticism of Tommy Watson. He deserved his
06:08opportunity. He's been outstanding for the under-21s. I've no doubt that he's going to
06:12be a top, top-level player and I think even last night you saw in flashes how good he
06:16can be with his dribbling. He worked really hard. I just don't quite get playing him off
06:19the right. I think it's a strange call to play him in an unfamiliar position, especially
06:24on his full debut. I think what we've seen really effectively in the under-21s and even
06:28a little bit in the first team is he's got that Jack Clark ability. Yes, he can go past
06:33players on the outside, but what he really wants to be doing is cutting in field and
06:35driving at goal. I thought it was a strange decision to play him off the right. I asked
06:39LeBreece about it afterwards and he explained that East Edo he felt was going to be a big
06:43goal-scoring threat off the left and I understand that. East Edo has been someone's biggest
06:46goal threat of late, but I'm just not sure Watson worked. So just going back to Chris's
06:51point about the changes not really being effective, I can understand why he made changes, but
06:55I wonder if when someone assesses the game whether they'll have a think about in future
07:01how they do it because I'm not sure, in my opinion, that Watson was given the best chance
07:05of success by playing off the right. Now, players have to be flexible, they have to
07:09learn different positions and it'll be good for Watson's development to play a different
07:12role. We've actually seen in this season at times in the under-21s players are number
07:1510, which I think is great for his development to understand different aspects of the game,
07:19but I definitely don't think that was his most effective position and I wonder if that's
07:24something that Labriece will look at in future.
07:27A couple of similar questions from Ollie and Ross. Ollie says, do you think squad depth
07:31is an issue as we changed the squad today and things didn't seem to click? And Ross
07:35says, is a lack of rotation options hurting us? Team looked really tired today, especially
07:39after playing second half on Saturday with 10 men. I definitely thought fatigue was an
07:43issue for Sunderland today and for Preston. I thought especially towards the end of the
07:48game it was two teams who were really struggling to create opportunities and really lacking
07:51in quality. I think you could see that with tired shots that were going nowhere near the
07:55goal, crosses that were over-hit. I think it had all the hallmarks of a lot of fatigue
07:59championship players. I do think at the moment right now squad depth is a little bit of an
08:05issue for Sunderland. We've talked about it a lot that there are often times when we've
08:09looked at the bench and there's only three or four players that you realistically expect
08:13Labriece to actually use. There's a lot of players who've been on the bench you don't
08:17expect them to bring on and I think that is going to lead to fatigue at times and I think
08:21that's why, again going back to our point, it was important to get some of these players
08:23involved. In theory squad depth shouldn't be an issue because you should have Pevera
08:28who should be a really good impact option, Samed who should be a really effective championship
08:34player. Obviously things are getting better. Mienda came off the bench which was positive
08:39last night. I know he didn't impact the game but I think he can be really useful with his
08:42energy. Ballard was obviously backing the squad. Alise should be back after the international
08:48break. So there are signs that they're getting better but I definitely think that in theory
08:52squad depth isn't an issue. At the moment Sunderland are lacking options a little bit
08:56to change games and we are seeing that. I think we did see signs of the fatigue because
09:01of that. That's what I've said for a little while now. If Sunderland get players back
09:05fit over the next few weeks then they're going to have a lot of depth. If they're not and
09:08these injury issues persist then I do think January is going to become a really important
09:12month because if these players like Pevera and what have you aren't coming back to the
09:16team and impacting regularly then Sunderland definitely do need a few more options. So
09:19I definitely think that's one to watch over the next few weeks. One thing I will say is
09:26Ben mentions the fatigue about the travelling. I think that's a really good point. I think
09:29Sunderland are in a really strange, tricky schedule at the moment where they're doing
09:33a huge amount of travelling, playing a huge amount of away games and I think that is definitely
09:39an issue in their performance last night. Especially when you add in, as somebody else
09:43has mentioned before, if Sunderland played 10 men on Saturday for half an hour I definitely
09:47don't think that helped. So I think that's definitely something where we should give
09:50the team a little bit of slack. We've got one from Ivan now who says, is it a concern
09:55we appear to struggle pre-and against teams who are near the bottom of the table? I personally
10:00don't think, I think this is slightly, I told them Sunderland have been outstanding and
10:08we saw against Oxford, who to be fair are in mid-table, they're a good side, proven
10:13to be a good side, how comfortable Sunderland were against them. I think this is more a
10:16reflection of the Championship where I think the vast majority of teams are pretty well
10:20coached, pretty well organised and at home can be very effective. We saw Sunderland struggle
10:26against Plymouth at times, struggle against Watford at times. QPR and Preston I think
10:29summed it up. I thought Preston for most phases of the game were good last night. QPR one
10:35of the weakest teams in the division looking at points. I thought they were well organised
10:39and good for most of the game on Saturday. They probably got worse when the pressure
10:43was on to really chase the game after they went down to ten, but for the first hour they
10:46were decent. I think that tells you something about the Championship. I think what both
10:49Preston and QPR have lacked in the last couple of games is quality in the final third, but
10:53actually I think both of them have got good head coaches, they're well organised and I
10:56think it just tells you something about the Championship this season. It's very, very
11:00difficult away from home. We've talked a lot on the whistle about Sunderland's performances
11:05away from home not being at the same level as their home performances and that being
11:08a little bit of a concern and yet Sunderland have the best away form in the division. So
11:13that tells you that actually this is a story for a lot of teams, even the ones at the top
11:16that they can be very, very comfortable against opposition at home, especially sort of opposition
11:21down towards the bottom of the table, but every team at home has the chance to make
11:25things difficult for you. I think that's just a reflection of the division and how tight
11:28it is this year. I don't think Preston are significantly poorer than a lot of the sides
11:34we've seen Sunderland play who are higher on the table than Preston at the moment. I
11:37think they're just obviously lacking a bit of quality in the final third. So I agree,
11:41I think at the moment you would like to see Sunderland's away performances improve and
11:46yet I think you also have to acknowledge that that's kind of the way it is in the Championship
11:50this season I think and Sunderland are showing a lot of resilience to grind out results and
11:54as long as their home performances and form remains as emphatic and as good as it is at
11:57the moment, they're going to be right up there. But for sure, it's a performance that we need
12:03to see Sunderland definitely need to improve from their performance last night. But I think
12:07just going on what Mike said here, look flat, but a win on Saturday re-energises things.
12:12As the brief says, it's a proper marathon. Other results show it, Leeds, Norwich, Blackburn,
12:17teams that didn't win who were in midweek. I completely agree with Mike Smith, thanks
12:21for your point. I think that there are times in the season where you are just going to
12:25struggle, where you're going to be tired, where it's going to catch up with you a bit
12:28and we've seen not just Sunderland, we've seen it with a lot of teams over the last
12:32week or so. So that's not to say that we can't criticise Sunderland's performance, I think
12:37we can, I think we expect and we want to see a lot more from them. Saturday is a big game,
12:41if you win it, it's five points from three games, two away games in there, it's a pretty
12:45solid return and you're looking very, very healthy. If you lose it, then you're going
12:49to be frustrated about those couple of games, that's the way of the Championship. So definitely
12:52pushing Sunderland for improvement, but I think that ultimately, yeah, I think there's
12:59still a lot we can be positive about. Last one from Dave, who asks about Dan Neil's performance
13:04and whether he's good enough in his current role. Listen, I didn't think Dan Neil had
13:07his best performance last night by any stretch of the imagination. I thought he lacked a
13:11little bit of precision in his passing, a little bit of tempo in his passing, but I
13:15wouldn't personally be singling him out from that. I thought it was the same with Alan
13:19Brown, who made some really good defensive interceptions, the right place to snuff out
13:22some dangerous crosses, but his passing was definitely short of what we've seen of what
13:26it was this season. His set pieces were quite wasteful as well, so it wasn't just Dan Neil.
13:30I would say on Dan that I didn't think that was his best performance tonight, but I think
13:34his last four performances previous to that have been very, very effective and a really
13:38important part of the results that Sunderland have got in that time. So I think it's one
13:42of those for me, I don't think he was great last night, but I think there were very few
13:47players on the pitch who you could say were anywhere near their best. I thought that Simon
13:50Moore was good, I thought Luke O'Neill had a very, very effective game. Hume and Serkin
13:55were sturdy without being at their absolute best, so I don't think it's one to be picking
14:00over individual performances. I think as a team, Sunderland just need to improve, but
14:05credit to them for grinding it out. So that's all your questions. Thanks for joining me.
14:10Hopefully it's been a nice chat about Sunderland and we'll see you again on Saturday to chat
14:15through the game against Coventry and hopefully three points of Sunderland.