Amanpour & Co. - June 20, 2024
Former Head of Intelligence for the Israeli Prison Service, Yuval Bitton on his experiences with Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and losing his nephew on October 7th. Fashion designer Diane von Furstenberg and director Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy discuss their new documentary about Furstenberg’s life. Ebony Reed and Louise Story explore the Black-white wealth gap in their book “Fifteen Cents on the Dollar.”
Transcript
00:04>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.
00:05WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO."
00:06HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
00:11>> Translator: IN 2004, I SAVED
00:14SINWAR'S LIFE IN PRISON.
00:16I WAS A DOCTOR WHO DIAGNOSE AID
00:17PROBLEM HE HAD.
00:18>> THE ISRAELI DOCTOR WHO CAME
00:21TO YAHYA SINWAR'S RESCUE.
00:24YUVAL BITTON TELLS HIS STORY FOR
00:28THE FIRST TIME SINCE OCTOBER
00:307th.
00:31>>> I CREATED THE WRAP DRESS.
00:33>> A FASHION ICON'S
00:34EXTRAORDINARY LIFE.
00:35I SPEAK TO THE WOMAN HERSELF,
00:39DIANE von FURSTENBERG AND
00:43DIRECTOR SHARMEEN OBAID-CHINOY.
00:44>>> GO BACK TO WHEN BLACK
00:46AMERICANS WERE ENSLAVED PEOPLE.
00:47THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF WORKING
00:49AND NOT BEING PAID.
00:53>> "FIFTEEN CENTS ON THE
01:01DOLLAR," THE STORIES BEHIND THE
01:03BLACK AND WHITE WEALTH GAP.
01:07♪
01:21>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE
01:22POSSIBLE BY --
01:23THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
01:24JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
01:24CANDACE KING WEIR.
01:27THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA
01:28AND MICKEY STRAUS.
01:31MARK J. BLECHNER.
01:33THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO
01:34FOUNDATION.
01:35SETON J. MELVIN.
01:38CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
01:41KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED
01:42TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES
01:43IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
01:46BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
01:48ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY
01:49THESE FUNDERS.
01:52AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS
01:54STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
01:55THANK YOU.
02:03>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
02:05ISRAEL'S MILITARY APPEARS TO BE
02:07COUNTERING PRIME MINISTER
02:08BENJAMIN NETANYAHU'S GOALS FOR
02:11THE WAR IN GAZA.
02:14REAR ADMIRAL DANIEL HAGARI
02:17ACKNOWLEDGED WHAT MANY OBSERVERS
02:18HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR MONTHS.
02:19TAKE A LISTEN.
02:23>> HAMAS --
02:25>> Translator: HAMAS IS AN IDEA.
02:27THOSE WHO THINK WE CAN MAKE
02:29HAMAS DISAPPEAR ARE WRONG.
02:30I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE
02:32ALTERNATIVES.
02:32THIS IS A DECISION OF THE IDF
02:37THAT THEY WILL IMPLEMENT.
02:40IT'S TO THROW DUST IN THE EYES
02:40OF THE PUBLIC.
02:42IF WE DON'T BRING SOMETHING ELSE
02:44TO GAZA, IN THE END OF THE DAY
02:46WE WILL GET HAMAS.
02:48>> MY FIRST GUEST AGREES.
02:50HE PROBABLY KNOWS THE TOP LEVEL
02:51OF HAMAS BETTER THAN ANYONE.
02:53THAT'S BECAUSE ISRAELI DOCTOR
02:55YUVAL BITTON WAS WORKING AS A
02:57DENTIST FOR THE STATE PRISON
03:00SERVICE IN THE 1990s WHEN HE MET
03:03YAHYA SINWAR.
03:06BITTON SAYS THEY SPENT HUNDREDS
03:07OF HOURS TOGETHER.
03:08ONE DAY IN 2004, WHEN SINWAR
03:10FACED A MEDICAL EMERGENCY,
03:12BITTON SWOOPED IN AND SAVED HIS
03:15LIFE.
03:15SINWAR THANKED HIM WHEN HE WAS
03:17LATER RELEASED IN THE
03:19EXTRAORDINARY PRISONER HOSTAGE
03:22SWAP.
03:22ON OCTOBER 7, BITTON'S NEPHEW
03:24WAS MURDERED BY HAMAS AT KIBBUTZ
03:32NIR OZ.
03:32HE TELLS US THE LESSONS HE
03:35LEARNED ABOUT WHAT DRIVES HAMAS
03:37AND WHAT THE ISRAELI LEADERSHIP
03:39CONTINUES TO GET WRONG.
03:41HE HAS NOT SPOKEN ON
03:44INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION
03:46UNTIL TONIGHT.
03:47YOU SAID ON THE MORNING OF
03:49OCTOBER 7, YOU KNEW IMMEDIATELY
03:51WHO HAD PLANNED THIS MASSACRE.
03:52HOW COME?
03:59>> Translator: BECAUSE I KNOW
04:00THE PERSON WHO PLANNED AND
04:02CONCEIVED AND INITIATED THIS
04:05CRIMINAL ATTACK.
04:06I HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE 1996.
04:08NOT ONLY HIM, BUT THE ENTIRE
04:10HAMAS LEADERSHIP IN GAZA.
04:12IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THAT THIS IS
04:13WHAT THEY WERE PLANNING WHILE
04:14THEY WERE STILL IN PRISON.
04:16AND THIS IS THE PLAN OF HAMAS.
04:17IT WAS VERY CLEAR TO ME.
04:21>> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YAHYA
04:23SINWAR.
04:24YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU REALIZED
04:25WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th,
04:27YOU WERE KIND OF TORMENTED BY
04:30WHAT YOU DID FOR HIM IN JAIL.
04:32YOU ESSENTIALLY SAVED HIS LIFE.
04:34TELL ME ABOUT THAT STORY.
04:38>> Translator: IN 2004, I SAVED
04:41SINWAR'S LIFE IN PRISON.
04:43I WAS THE DOCTOR WHO DIAGNOSED A
04:45PROBLEM HE HAD.
04:46WHEN HE EXPLAINED TO ME WHAT WAS
04:47HAPPENING TO HIM, I DIAGNOSED IT
04:50AS A STROKE.
04:51TOGETHER, WITH THE GENERAL
04:53PRACTITIONER, WE DECIDED TO TAKE
04:54HIM TO THE HOSPITAL.
04:56HE ARRIVED AT THE HOSPITAL.
04:58THE DIAGNOSIS WAS THAT HE HAD
04:59ABSCESS IN THE BRAIN.
05:01HE WAS OPERATED ON THAT DAY.
05:04THUS, SAVING HIS LIFE, BECAUSE
05:06IF IT HAD EXPLODED, HE WOULD
05:08HAVE DIED.
05:09HE THANKED ME AND THE DOCTORS
05:11FOR SAVING HIS LIFE.
05:12HE ALSO ASKED THE SECURITY
05:14OFFICER WHO WAS A MUSLIM, WHEN
05:16WE VISITED HIM IN THE HOSPITAL,
05:18TO TELL ME IN ARABIC AND EXPLAIN
05:21TO ME WHAT IT MEANS FOR SOMEONE
05:23TO SAVE A MUSLIM'S LIFE AND THAT
05:24HE OWED ME HIS LIFE.
05:26HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT ON THE DAY
05:28HE WAS RELEASED IN THE DEAL IN
05:312011, THAT HE OWED ME HIS LIFE.
05:33ONE DAY HE WILL REPAY IT.
05:36AS YOU UNDERSTAND, HE REPAID IT
05:38ON OCTOBER 7th IN THAT HE WAS
05:41ALSO DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR
05:42THE MURDER OF MY NEPHEW IN
05:47KIBBUTZ NIR OZ.
05:49>> YOUR NEPHEW WENT TO TRY TO
05:51SAVE HIS FAMILY AND OTHERS WHEN
05:53THE INVASION HAPPENED AND THE
05:55MASSACRES HAPPENED.
05:56HE WAS ABDUCTED AND APPARENTLY
05:59KILLED, OR HE DIED OF HIS
06:02WOUNDS, DRAGGED BACK INTO GAZA.
06:06DO YOU BELIEVE HAD SINWAR KNOWN
06:09IT WAS YOUR NEPHEW, THE OUTCOME
06:11WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT?
06:16>> Translator: I DID NOT AND DO
06:20NOT ENGAGE IN SPECULATION.
06:22MY NEPHEW CAME OUT TO DEFEND.
06:24HE FOUGHT IN THOSE TERRIBLE
06:26MOMENTS OF THE MORNING IN
06:30KIBBUTZ NIR OZ.
06:31HUNDREDS OF TERRORISTS MURDERED
06:35RAPED AND SLAUGHTERED AND BURNED
06:3750 PEOPLE FROM NIR OZ.
06:3950 MEMBERS OF KIBBUTZ NIR OZ.
06:4275 OTHER MEMBERS WERE KIDNAPPED,
06:44INCLUDING HIS GRANDMOTHER.
06:47THE OLDER WOMAN ON THE SCOOTER.
06:53HE WAS SERIOUSLY INJURED DURING
06:54HIS DEFENSE OF THE COMMUNITY.
06:56THERE WERE FIVE OF THEM.
06:58THEY DIDN'T REALLY STAND A
06:59CHANCE.
06:59HE WAS KIDNAPPED WHILE HE WAS
07:02SERIOUSLY INJURED, UNCONSCIOUS
07:04AND DIED AFTER A FEW HOURS IN
07:07GAZA.
07:08IT'S IRRELEVANT WHAT I THINK
07:09ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED
07:09IF.
07:14>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE ELDERLY
07:17LADY, HIS GRANDMOTHER, I BELIEVE
07:18WAS RELEASED IN THE FIRST ROUND
07:20DURING THE NEGOTIATED RELEASE IN
07:23NOVEMBER.
07:23CAN I ASK YOU WHAT YOU LEARNED
07:27ABOUT SINWAR AND HAMAS IN JAIL?
07:30>> Translator: I HAD MANY HOURS,
07:32HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF
07:34CONVERSATION WITH SINWAR, BOTH
07:35AS A DENTIST AND AS AN
07:40INTELLIGENCE OFFICER.
07:42>> WHAT IMPRESSION DID YOU GET
07:44OF HIS PLANS, HIS GOALS?
07:47>> Translator: I LEARNED FROM
07:47HIM AND THE OTHER LEADERS.
07:49IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THAT SINWAR
07:53REFLECTS THE HAMAS GAZA
07:54WORLDVIEW.
07:54SINWAR TOLD ME CLEARLY IN 2004
07:57THAT THEY WOULD BE READY TO SIGN
08:00A TRUCE FOR 20 YEARS BECAUSE THE
08:01STATE OF ISRAEL IS CURRENTLY A
08:04STRONG STATE.
08:04BUT HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT IN 20
08:06YEARS, HE ESTIMATES THAT WE WILL
08:08BE WEAKENED BECAUSE OF INTERNAL
08:11STRUGGLES BETWEEN US WITHIN
08:12ISRAELI SOCIETY.
08:14AS SOON AS THEY RECOGNIZE THAT
08:15WE ARE WEAK, THEY WILL ATTACK
08:17US.
08:18THEY ALSO SAID CLEARLY THAT WE
08:19AS JEWS HAVE NO PLACE ON THESE
08:23LANDS, ON LANDS ON WHICH THE
08:24STATE OF ISRAEL IS LOCATED.
08:28THESE ARE MUSLIM LANDS.
08:30THESE ARE LANDS THAT DO NOT
08:32BELONG TO US.
08:32THEREFORE, WE AS JEWS HAVE NO
08:34RIGHT TO EXIST ON THE LANDS.
08:37THEREFORE, WILL IS NO
08:38COMPROMISE, THERE'S NO
08:39COMPROMISE ON THE 1967 BORDERS
08:41OR 1948 BORDERS.
08:43IT'S EITHER US OR THEM.
08:46THEREFORE, IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF
08:47TIME AND TIMING THAT THEY WILL
08:48ACT AGAINST US AND TRY TO EXPEL
08:50US FROM THE PLACE WHERE WE LIVE.
08:55THIS IS A WORLDVIEW THEY DIDN'T
08:57HIDE.
08:57HE TOLD ME THAT.
08:58HIS WAY WAS MUCH MORE EXTREME
09:00THAN OTHERS.
09:00HIS THOUGHT THAT THIS CONFLICT
09:02CAN ONLY BE RESOLVED BY DIVORCE
09:04AND THE STRUGGLE THEY ARE WAGING
09:06AGAINST US, HAMAS IS WAGING AS A
09:09RELIGIOUS STRUGGLE, THE WAR IS A
09:11RELIGIOUS WAR.
09:11IT'S NOT A NATIONALIST WAR.
09:13IT'S NOT ABOUT ESTABLISHING A
09:15PALESTINIAN STATE ALONGSIDE THE
09:16STATE OF ISRAEL.
09:18IT'S ALL PALESTINE.
09:20HE ONLY SAID THIS MORE BLUNTLY
09:22THAN OTHER HAMAS LEADERS IN THE
09:24WEST BANK.
09:25>> YUVAL, NOW HE APPARENTLY,
09:28ACCORDING TO ISRAELI
09:30INTELLIGENCE, I THINK, SINWAR IS
09:33STILL SOMEWHERE IN THOSE TUNNELS
09:35IN GAZA, STILL APPARENTLY
09:37CALLING THE SHOTS, NINE MONTHS,
09:39EIGHT MONTHS INTO THIS WAR.
09:43WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HIS MENTAL
09:45STATE NOW AND WHO HE IS, THE
09:48PERSON YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU
09:49THINK HE IS THINKING ABOUT
09:53CEASE-FIRE, ABOUT ANYTHING,
09:53ABOUT RELEASING THE HOSTAGES
09:55THAT STILL REMAIN?
10:01>> Translator: I'VE MADE MY
10:02OPINION VERY CLEAR FOR EIGHT
10:04MONTHS.
10:04AND AT EVERY STAGE OF THIS WAR.
10:06I'VE MADE MY OPINION VERY CLEAR.
10:08AND UNTIL TODAY, I HAVE
10:10UNFORTUNATELY NOT BEEN WRONG
10:11ABOUT MY ASSESSMENTS REGARDING
10:13SINWAR.
10:13I WISH I WAS MISTAKEN.
10:15I WAS ASKED IN THE FIRST FEW
10:17DAYS OF THE WAR WHAT SINWAR
10:19WOULD DEMAND IN EXCHANGE FOR THE
10:21HOSTAGES.
10:21IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THAT HE WOULD
10:22RELEASE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN
10:24BECAUSE OF HAMAS' INTERESTS AND
10:26NOT DUE TO ISRAEL'S MILITARY
10:30PRESSURE, BECAUSE HE WAS
10:31ATTACKED BY THE ENTIRE WORLD AND
10:33ESPECIALLY BY QATAR, WHICH FELT
10:36EMBARRASSED.
10:36AND THE MOMENT THAT HE RELEASED
10:38THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND
10:39TURNED THE PRESSURE ON ISRAEL,
10:41IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THE GOAL OF
10:43THIS CRIMINAL AND MURDEROUS
10:44ATTACK IN WHICH WOMEN, CHILDREN
10:47AND INNOCENT CIVILIANS WERE
10:48MURDERED, RAPED AND BURNED IN
10:51THEIR HOMES, WAS TO RELEASE
10:53PALESTINIAN PRISONERS.
10:54HE STATED THIS IN 2011 WHEN HE
10:56WAS RELEASED DURING HIS DEAL.
10:59HE THOUGHT IT WAS A BAD DEAL.
11:03THAT HAMAS SHOULD NOT HAVE
11:05ACCEPTED.
11:06HE SAID IT WAS A BAD DEAL.
11:07WE WILL KIDNAP SOLDIERS IN ORDER
11:09TO RELEASE THOSE WE LEFT BEHIND.
11:11THE SUCCESS OF THE OCTOBER 7th
11:14ATTACKS CAUSED THE KIDNAPPING OF
11:16240 ISRAELI CIVILIANS, SOME OF
11:18WHOM WERE SOLDIERS.
11:20HE BROUGHT ON THE IDF'S
11:24RESPONSE, BECAUSE HE DID NOT
11:25THINK HE WOULD KIDNAP 240
11:27CIVILIANS AND SOLDIERS.
11:28HE THOUGHT HE MANAGED TO GET A
11:30NUMBER OF SOLDIERS, BUT DIDN'T
11:31THINK THE IDF WOULD BE LEFT
11:33UNPREPARED ALONG THE BORDERS.
11:35IF THE MAIN REASON OF THE ATTACK
11:36WAS TO RELEASE PALESTINIAN
11:40PRISONERS, THE IDF'S RESPONSE
11:42FORCED HIM TO CHANGE HIS
11:44PRIORITIES.
11:44AT THE MOMENT, SINCE IDF ENTERED
11:47THE GAZA STRIP, HIS PRIORITY TO
11:50MAINTAIN HIS RULE.
11:50HE PUT THE ISSUE OF RELEASING
11:52THE PRISONERS AS A SECOND
11:54PRIORITY.
11:54NOW THE FIRST PRIORITY IS TO
11:56MAINTAIN HAMAS' RULE.
11:58THE CONDITION FOR RELEASING THE
12:00HOSTAGES WILL ONLY BE THE IDF'S
12:03WITHDRAWAL FROM GAZA AND THE END
12:05OF THE WAR.
12:07THE HOSTAGES ARE BEING USED TO
12:10ACHIEVE HIS GOALS.
12:11ISRAEL MADE A MISTAKE DURING ITS
12:14OPERATION AND IN ITS THINKING
12:15ONLY MILITARY PRESSURE WOULD
12:17BRING THE RELEASE OF HOSTAGES,
12:19WHICH I SAID IN THE FIRST MONTH
12:20OF THE WAR, I THOUGHT A MILITARY
12:24EFFORT WAS IMPORTANT TO
12:24DISMANTLE HAMAS, DESTROY IT AND
12:26HURT ITS MILITARY CAPABILITIES.
12:29IT'S AN IMPORTANT EFFORT.
12:30BUT IN ORDER TO RETURN THE
12:32HOSTAGES, IT'S NOT ENOUGH.
12:35BECAUSE SINWAR THINKS ONLY ABOUT
12:36THE CONTINUITY OF HIS RULE.
12:39HE IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE EVEN
12:42100,000 PALESTINIANS IN ORDER TO
12:43ENSURE THE SURVIVAL OF HIS RULE.
12:45HE IS WILLING TO PAY WITH THE
12:46LIVES OF MILITANTS, HAMAS
12:53MEMBERS, CIVILIANS.
12:55ISRAEL'S MISTAKE IS THAT IT
12:57DIDN'T CREATE AN ALTERNATIVE AND
12:58DIDN'T REPLACE HAMAS' RULE AND
13:01DIDN'T ALLOW AN IMPROVED VERSION
13:05OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY
13:07FORCES TO MAKE CLEAR TO SINWAR
13:09HE HAS LOST EVERYTHING, BOTH HIS
13:12MILITARY CAPABILITY, BUT MOSTLY
13:14HIS AUTHORITY IN GAZA.
13:17THAT WOULD HAVE CAUSED SINWAR TO
13:18MAKE A DEAL TO RETURN OUR
13:20HOSTAGES IN EXCHANGE FOR
13:22PRISONERS.
13:23TODAY HE FEELS HE IS IN A
13:25POWERFUL POSITION.
13:26HE IS RUNNING THE NEGOTIATIONS
13:27WHILE STILL OPERATING FROM
13:29WITHIN GAZA AND STILL CONTROLS
13:30THE AREAS FROM THIS THE IDF
13:33EVACUATED.
13:33HE ALSO CONTROLS THE
13:36HUMANITARIAN AID.
13:36THEREFORE, HE FEELS STRONG AND
13:38WON'T SIGN AN AGREEMENT TO
13:39RELEASE THE HOSTAGES UNLESS THE
13:41IDF WITHDRAWS FROM GAZA AND THE
13:43FIGHTING ENDS.
13:48>> YUVAL, YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE
13:50ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS MADE A
13:52MISTAKE STRATEGICALLY BY NOT
13:56PROVIDING FOR ALTERNATE
13:59PALESTINIAN GOVERNANCE INSIDE
14:01GAZA AS THEY GO AFTER HAMAS.
14:03WHEN YOU WERE A PRISON DENTIST
14:09AND WHEN YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE
14:11ALL THE PRISONERS, WHAT WAS THE
14:13DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE SIDES
14:14THAT YOU NOTICED?
14:20>> Translator: ISRAEL SHOULD
14:21HAVE AGREED TO THE BIDEN PLAN
14:23WHICH TALKS ABOUT STRATEGIC
14:27AXIS, INCLUDING THE MODERATE
14:29ARAB STATES, LED BY SAUDI
14:31ARABIA, THE EMIRATES, EGYPT,
14:35JORDAN, SPONSORED BY THE UNITED
14:37STATES, THAT WOULD SPONSOR A
14:39PALESTINIAN FORCE ASSOCIATED
14:40WITH THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY
14:43AND FATAH THAT WOULD ENTER THE
14:45GAZA STRIP AND IN EVERY PLACE
14:46THE IDF EVACUATES, A CIVIL
14:49AUTHORITY WOULD TAKE ITS PLACE
14:50RUN BY THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY
14:52WHICH WOULD ENFORCE ITS RULE AND
14:55MONITOR IT.
14:56THIS MISTAKE OF NOT ACCEPTING
14:58BIDEN'S PLAN ENABLES SINWAR TO
14:59BE THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE ARENA,
15:01WITH ONE HAND WE APPLIED
15:03MILITARY FORCE AND DISDISMANTLED
15:07THEM AND WITH THE OTHER WE
15:10ENABLED HAMAS' RULE.
15:11IN 2007, HAMAS OVERTHREW FATAH.
15:15THEY DROVE THEM UNTIL THE
15:18STREETS OF GAZA UNTIL THEY DIED.
15:25SOME WERE BEHEADED.
15:27THEN FATAH UNDERSTOOD ITS
15:29GREATEST ENEMY WAS HAMAS AND NOT
15:31ISRAEL.
15:32IT WAS THEN THAT FATAH
15:34UNDERSTOOD THAT HAMAS WAVES THE
15:35GREEN FLAG, OF ISLAM, AND NOT
15:38THE PALESTINIAN FLAG.
15:41HAMAS' STRUGGLE IS NOT THE SAME
15:43AS FATAH'S.
15:49FATAH TALKS ABOUT A COMPROMISE
15:51WITHIN THE BORDERS.
15:52HAMAS IS FIGHTING A RELIGIOUS
15:54WAR AGAINST THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
15:55WHAT HAMAS DID TO FATAH IN 2007,
16:00THE MUSLIMS, IF HE DID THAT TO
16:03MUSLIMS, WHAT WILL THEY DO TO
16:04THE JEWS WHEN THEY COULD?
16:06IN 2007 IN PRISON, THE FATAH
16:08LEADERSHIP CAME TO US, THE
16:11INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS AND
16:12DEMANDED AND REQUESTED OF US TO
16:13REMOVE ALL OF THE HAMAS
16:14PRISONERS FROM THE FATAH
16:16QUARTERS.
16:17OTHERWISE, THEY WILL MURDER
16:19THEM.
16:19THEY TOLD US THE INTELLIGENCE
16:21OFFICERS AND THE ISRAELI
16:22COMMANDERS THAT THEY DON'T SEE
16:24HAMAS AS PART OF THEIR STRUGGLE
16:26AGAINST ISRAEL.
16:26THEY SEE THEM AS TRAITORS AND
16:30ENEMIES.
16:30SINCE THEN, IN THE WEST BANK,
16:32FATAH IS WAGING AN ALL-OUT WAR
16:35AGAINST HAMAS.
16:36NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR LOVE FOR
16:38ISRAEL BUT BECAUSE THEY SUSPECT
16:40THEY COULD LOSE CONTROL OF THE
16:41WEST BANK AS THEY DID IN GAZA.
16:44BECAUSE THEY FEAR THAT HAMAS
16:46WOULD RISE UP IN THE WEST BANK
16:47AS THEY DID IN GAZA.
16:49HAMAS ONLY SEES ONE WAY, A
16:51MUSLIM STATE, A MUSLIM
16:53CALIPHATE.
16:53IF THE FATAH GETS IN ITS WAY, IT
16:55WILL HARM FATAH, TOO.
16:57THEREFORE, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT
16:58WE SHOULD HAVE EXPLOITED THIS,
16:59THE SAME WAY WE DID IN PRISON,
17:02BUT OUTSIDE AS WELL.
17:03SINWAR IS MOST AFRAID OF FATAH
17:05CONTROLLING GAZA AND NOT ISRAELI
17:06CONTROL BECAUSE ISRAEL IS AN
17:09ENEMY IN THE EYES OF THE
17:11PALESTINIANS.
17:11HE WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO DRAFT
17:12PEOPLE AGAINST ISRAEL IN ORDER
17:14TO CONDUCT WARFARE.
17:17UP AGAINST FATAH, IT WILL BE
17:19MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE FATAH
17:21IS PART OF ITS OWN NATION.
17:27>> FINAL QUESTION.
17:28YOU SAY THAT SINWAR AND THE
17:30OTHER PALESTINIANS LEARNED A LOT
17:32ABOUT ISRAEL, THEY LEARNED
17:33HEBREW, THEY LEARNED ABOUT
17:34SOCIETY WHILE THEY WERE IN
17:35PRISON.
17:37YOU LEARNED SOMETHING ABOUT
17:38HAMAS.
17:39DID THE GOVERNMENT, DID THE
17:42ISRAELI SECURITY INTELLIGENCE
17:44SOCIETY LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT
17:47HAMAS?
17:48>> Translator: UNFORTUNATELY,
17:48THE ISRAELI LEADERSHIP DID NOT
17:50STUDY HAMAS.
17:51A LOT OF PEOPLE AMONG US, EVEN
17:52IN THE INTELLIGENCE SERVICE, DID
17:54NOT KNOW AND LEARN HAMAS WELL
17:56ENOUGH.
17:57ALL WE NEEDED TO DO WAS LISTEN
17:58TO THEM.
17:59OUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS HAMAS WAS
18:01ARROGANT.
18:02WE DISMISSED HAMAS.
18:04HAMAS SAID EVERYTHING IT
18:06INTENDED TO DO.
18:06WE DIDN'T WANT TO LISTEN.
18:08THIS IS ONE THING.
18:11THE SECOND THING IS THERE WAS A
18:13WRONG CONCEPTION.
18:14THE CONCEPTION WITH WHICH WE
18:18ACTED TOWARD HAMAS.
18:20ISRAEL SHOULD HAVE TOPPLED
18:21HAMAS.
18:22SINCE 2007, WHEN HAMAS CAME INTO
18:24POWER IN GAZA, WE SHOULD HAVE
18:28TOPPLED IT.
18:30EACH TIME WE DIDN'T DO IT, WE
18:31GOT A STRONGER HAMAS.
18:33STRENGTHENING IT AND ARMORING
18:35ITSELF FOR 2023.
18:37THE MISTAKE WAS DIFFERENTIATE
18:40BETWEEN GAZA AND THE WEST BANK,
18:42BETWEEN HAMAS AND FATAH.
18:45IT SERVED HAMAS.
18:46IT DIDN'T DESERVE US.
18:47WE THOUGHT WE COULD ISOLATE
18:49HAMAS, THAT WE HAD THE
18:50TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS TO KEEP
18:52HAMAS INSIDE THE BORDERS OF THE
18:53GAZA.
18:54WE WILL HAVE INTELLIGENCE TO
18:56ALERT THE ENEMY'S INTENTION TO
18:58HURT US AND WE WOULD BE PREPARED
18:59FOR IT AHEAD OF TIME.
19:01I THINK WE ESTABLISHED OUR
19:03INTELLIGENCE TOO MUCH ON
19:05TECHNOLOGY AND LESS ON HUMAN
19:07INTELLIGENCE.
19:08HUMAN INTELLIGENCE COULD HAVE
19:09RECOGNIZED BETTER THE INTENTION
19:11OF THE ENEMY, THE INTENTION OF
19:13HAMAS TO DO THIS CRIMINAL RAID.
19:15WE COULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT IN
19:18ADVANCE.
19:18WE WOULDN'T HAVE FOUND OURSELVES
19:21SURPRISED.
19:21SO OUR CONCEPTION COLLAPSED.
19:23ALSO, THE STRENGTHENING OF HAMAS
19:25WITH QATARI MONEY WAS A MISTAKE.
19:27WE MADE MANY MISTAKES BECAUSE
19:29OUR LEADERS AND IDF AND
19:35INTELLIGENCE LEADERS WERE WRONG
19:37ABOUT THEIR CONCEPTION OF HAMAS.
19:39>> YUVAL BITTON, THANK YOU FOR
19:41YOUR INFORMATION AND YOUR
19:42INSIGHT.
19:43IT IS EXTRAORDINARY GIVEN WHAT
19:45WE HAVE REPORTED THAT THE CHIEF
19:48IDF SPOKESMAN HAS AGREED WITH
19:50SOME OF THIS NOW PUBLICLY IN AN
19:52ISRAELI TV INTERVIEW.
19:55WE HAVE SEEN THAT KEY MEMBERS OF
19:57THE SO-CALLED WAR CABINET,
19:59BEFORE IT WAS RESOLVED, RESIGNED
20:02BECAUSE OF THIS PERSPECTIVE AND
20:05INFORMATION AND SEEING THAT THE
20:07WAR WAS NOT ACHIEVING THE
20:10MAXIMALIST GOALS NETANYAHU AND
20:12HIS RIGHT WING COALITION SET.
20:15>>> NEXT, TO A TRAILBLAZING
20:17FASHION DESIGNER AND HER
20:19EXTRAORDINARY LIFE STORY.
20:20IF THE WORLD KNOWS DIANE von
20:24FURSTENBERG IT'S FOR HER ICONIC
20:25WRAP DRESSES.
20:26HER IDENTITY IS FAR MORE COMPLEX
20:28THAN THAT SIMPLE ITEM.
20:29SHE'S THE CHILD OF A HOLOCAUST
20:32SURVIVOR.
20:33HER MOTHER BARELY MADE IT OUT OF
20:36AUSCHWITZ.
20:36SHE'S UNASHAMEDLY EMBRACED LIFE
20:38AND LOVE ON HER OWN TERMS AS SHE
20:41SAYS, LIKE ANY MAN WOULD.
20:43SHE'S ALSO THE SAVVY
20:45BUSINESSWOMAN WHO BUILD A
20:46FASHION EMPIRE.
20:47NOW A NEW DOCUMENTARY, "DIANE
20:48von FURSTENBERG: WOMAN IN
20:50CHARGE" TELLS THE WHOLE STORY.
20:52HERE IS A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.
20:56>> WELCOME DIANE von
20:57FURSTENBERG.
20:58>> I CREATED THE WRAP DRESS.
21:00I WRAPPED AMERICA AROUND.
21:03>> A MODERN WOMAN WHO COULD HAVE
21:05IT ALL.
21:06>> SHE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST
21:07WOMEN WHO BROKE THROUGH THE
21:14GLASS CEILING IN BUSINESS.
21:17>> I MARRIED A PRINCE.
21:19>> WE ARE LIKE THIS "IT" COUPLE.
21:22EVERYBODY WANTED TO SLEEP WITH
21:24HIM, MALE, FEMALE.
21:25>> IT WAS A TIME OF FREE LOVE.
21:28>> IT'S CO-DIRECTED BY THE OSCAR
21:30WINNING DIRECTOR SHARMEEN
21:35OBAID-CHINOY.
21:36THEY BOTH RECENTLY JOINED ME
21:37AHEAD OF THE FILM'S RELEASE.
21:40DIANE von FURSTENBERG, SHARMEEN
21:42OBAID-CHINOY, WELCOME TO THE
21:43PROGRAM.
21:43>> HELLO.
21:45>> THANK YOU.
21:46>> LISTEN, THIS IS PRETTY
21:49AMAZING.
21:49FIRST, I HAVE SPOKEN TO BOTH OF
21:51YOU SEPARATELY IN THE PAST.
21:52I KNOW SOME OF SHARMEEN'S
21:55PREVIOUS WORK.
21:56DIANE, I KNOW YOUR WORK.
21:57I DON'T THINK I WOULD HAVE
21:58NECESSARILY PAIRED YOU.
22:00FIRST, DIANE, WHAT IS IT ABOUT
22:05SHARMEEN, WHAT MADE YOU TRUST
22:06HER TO TELL YOUR STORY?
22:10>> I'M A GREAT ADMIRER OF HER
22:12WORK.
22:12A WOMAN WHO GETS TWO OSCARS
22:14BEFORE SHE'S 40 IS PRETTY
22:15AMAZING.
22:16I OBVIOUSLY COULDN'T BE A
22:18PRODUCER.
22:18I COULDN'T BE INVOLVED IN
22:20ANYTHING.
22:20I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO INVOLVEMENT
22:22OTHER THAN BEING THE SUBJECT.
22:25OF COURSE, THEY HAD ALL ACCESS
22:26TO MY ARCHIVES.
22:28I HAVE THEM GET PEOPLE TO
22:28INTERVIEW.
22:30I HAD ABSOLUTELY -- I ACTUALLY
22:33LOVE IT LIKE THAT.
22:34IT'S MUCH BETTER TO BE THE
22:36SUBJECT.
22:36>> SHARMEEN, WHAT ABOUT DIANE?
22:38WHAT WAS IT ABOUT HER THAT
22:42ATTRACTED YOU?
22:43>> I HAVE MADE FILMS ABOUT WOMEN
22:47WHO HAVE LIVED EXTRAORDINARY
22:49LIVES, FACED WITH CIRCUMSTANCES,
22:51ADVERSITY AND HAVE RISEN THROUGH
22:52IT.
22:53IF YOU LOOK AT THE SPINE OF
22:55DIANE'S LIFE, HERE IS A WOMAN
22:57BORN OUT OF THE ASHES OF WORLD
23:00WAR II, WHOSE BIRTH IN ITSELF
23:01WAS A MIRACLE, WHO STARTED A
23:03BUSINESS AT A TIME WHEN WOMEN
23:05NEEDED MEN TO COSIGN FOR
23:07SOMETHING AS SMALL AS A CREDIT
23:10CARD.
23:11HER JOURNEY FROM EUROPE TO
23:12AMERICA AS AN IMMIGRANT,
23:15STARTING A BUSINESS, BEING A
23:16SINGLE MOTHER, IT'S AN
23:19INSPIRATIONAL STORY OF A WOMAN
23:20WHO WAS TRYING TO CHART HER OWN
23:22YELLOW BRICK ROAD.
23:23THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO FOCUS
23:25ON.
23:25BECAUSE I FEEL TODAY WOMEN NEED
23:27TO HEAR STORIES OF HOW YOU MAKE
23:30IT IN THE WORLD AND HOW YOU FIND
23:32YOUR OWN VOICE.
23:33DIANE IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF
23:35SOMEONE WHO HAS FALLEN DOWN MANY
23:37TIMES AND PICKED HERSELF BACK
23:38UP.
23:39>> LISTEN, ONE OF THE MOST
23:41EXTRAORDINARY THINGS IS HOW YOU
23:43DECIDED TO START THE PROGRAM.
23:44DIANE HAS ALWAYS OWNED HERSELF
23:46AND ALWAYS BEEN AUTHENTIC.
23:48THIS CLIP WE'RE GOING TO PLAY
23:49RIGHT NOW -- I LAUGHED OUT LOUD
23:51WHEN I SAW IT.
24:04>> I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SO
24:07MANY PEOPLE DO NOT EMBRACE AGE.
24:13I'VE ALWAYS BEEN ATTRACTED BY
24:16WRINKLES.
24:18YOU KNOW?
24:18AGE MEANS LIVING.
24:20YOU SHOULDN'T SAY, HOW OLD YOU
24:22ARE.
24:22YOU SHOULD SAY, HOW LONG HAVE
24:25YOU LIVED?
24:32IF YOU TAKE ALL YOUR WRINKLES
24:35AWAY, YOU KNOW, THE MAP OF YOUR
24:37LIFE IS DIFFERENT.
24:42I DON'T REALLY WANT TO ERASE
24:45ANYTHING FROM MY LIFE.
24:47>> DIANE, ARE THERE MANY WOMEN
24:49THAT YOU KNOW -- EVEN YOUNGER
24:50THAN YOU -- WHO WOULD BE THAT
24:54HONEST ABOUT AGE?
24:55>> BUT WHAT I DON'T
24:57UNDERSTAND -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND
24:59THIS HONEST ABOUT AGE.
25:01I MEAN, AGE MEANS YOU HAVE
25:03LIVED.
25:03YOU HAVE TO HONOR THAT.
25:06WHEN YOU AGE, YOU ALREADY
25:08HAVE -- YOU ALREADY HAVE THE
25:11YEARS BEFORE.
25:12I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT
25:15OF, OH, NOT WANTING TO SAY YOUR
25:17AGE.
25:17I'M 77 YEARS OLD.
25:20I COULDN'T BE A WEEK YOUNGER
25:23BECAUSE LAST WEEK I LEARNED A
25:24LOT.
25:27I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE
25:31CONCEPT OF BEING INTIMIDATED BY
25:33YOUR AGE.
25:33I THINK IT'S A VICTORY.
25:35>> YEAH.
25:35THAT'S GREAT.
25:36YOU WORK IN THE FASHION
25:37INDUSTRY.
25:37YOU LIVE IN NEW YORK.
25:38YOU KNOW SO MANY WOMEN WHO ARE
25:40TRYING TO ERASE THE WRINKLES AND
25:42JACK UP THEIR FACES AND DRESS IN
25:44A WAY -- THAT'S WHY THIS IS SO
25:45INTERESTING.
25:47ACTUALLY, YOUR STORY MAY HAVE
25:49SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT.
25:52YOU SAY THAT 18 MONTHS AFTER
25:54YOUR MOTHER EMERGED ALIVE FROM
25:57AUSCHWITZ, YOU WERE BORN.
25:58I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT IN A
26:00MOMENT.
26:00I WANT TO ASK SHARMEEN --
26:03THERE'S AN EXTRAORDINARY SCENE
26:05WHERE SOME OF YOUR -- THE
26:07FRAGMENTS OF THE LETTERS YOUR
26:08MOTHER WROTE AS SHE WAS ON THE
26:10WAY ESSENTIALLY TO THE
26:12CONCENTRATION CAMP, THAT WERE
26:14EVENTUALLY FOUND, BECAUSE YOU
26:15FOUND THEM A DECADE LATER.
26:18I'M GOING TO PLAY THE CLIP FROM
26:19THE DOCUMENTARY.
26:20>> SHE TOOK SOME CARDBOARD.
26:23SHE WROTE TO HER PARENTS.
26:25SHE THREW IT ON THE STREET
26:29HOPING THAT SOMEBODY WOULD FIND
26:32IT.
26:32SHE -- SHE SAID -- SHE GAVE THE
26:42ADDRESS.
26:46SHE WROTE TO HER PARENTS.
27:05>> I THINK THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY,
27:07TOO.
27:07I LEAVE WITH A SMILE TAKES
27:10SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO WRITE
27:11THAT THEN.
27:12>> IT WASN'T TRUE.
27:13IT'S NOT LIKE SHE LEFT WITH A
27:15SMILE.
27:16SHE WANTED HER PARENTS TO THINK
27:19THAT.
27:19SHE DID SURVIVE.
27:21SHE SURVIVED 14 MONTHS.
27:24SHE ALWAYS SAID THAT SHE FELT
27:26SHE SURVIVED BECAUSE HER
27:29MOTHER'S WILL.
27:29>> YOU SAY THROUGHOUT THE FILM
27:32THAT YOUR MANTRA IS FREEDOM AND
27:35ALSO BEING IN CHARGE AS A WOMAN.
27:36YOU KEEP USING THOSE WORDS
27:38THROUGHOUT THE FILM.
27:41REALLY, LET'S JUMP FORWARD TO
27:42WHEN YOU CAME TO THE UNITED
27:44STATES AND AROUND THAT TIME
27:48ESSENTIALLY BECAME A
27:49BUSINESSWOMAN OUT OF NOWHERE
27:49WITH THE FAMOUS WRAP DRESS.
27:52HOW DIFFICULT WAS THAT?
27:53I READ -- I SAW IN THE FILM YOU
27:55HAD TO CRISSCROSS ALL OVER
27:59AMERICA.
27:59PEOPLE WERE NOT PREPARED,
28:01REALLY, TO DEAL WITH A WOMAN WHO
28:04WAS PEDDLING THESE WARES AT THAT
28:07TIME.
28:07>> IT WAS THE ADVENTURE OF MY
28:11LIFE.
28:11WE DON'T CHOOSE WHERE WE ARE
28:13BORN.
28:13WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR PARENTS.
28:15WHAT WE CAN DO -- WE DON'T EVEN
28:18CHOOSE OUR DESTINY.
28:20WE TRY TO NAVIGATE IT THE BEST
28:22WE CAN.
28:23I WANTED VERY MUCH TO BE A WOMAN
28:25IN CHARGE, TO BE A WOMAN
28:26INDEPENDENT.
28:27EVEN THOUGH I HAD MARRIED A
28:29YOUNG VERY ATTRACTIVE ARISTOCRAT
28:32WITH MONEY.
28:33I WANTED VERY MUCH TO HAVE MY
28:34OWN MONEY AND TO BE A WOMAN IN
28:37CHARGE.
28:37I BECAME THAT WOMAN BECAUSE OF A
28:40LITTLE DRESS.
28:41SO I TRAVELED AROUND AND MEETING
28:44WOMEN, WRAPPING DRESSES AROUND
28:46THEM.
28:47THE MORE CONFIDENT I WAS, THE
28:48MORE I WAS ACTUALLY SELLING
28:51CONFIDENCE WITH THE DRESS.
28:54IT WAS THE LIBERATION OF WOMEN.
28:57IT WAS A TIME.
29:00THIS DRESS BECAME ALSO A FLAG OF
29:01FREEDOM.
29:02>> I WONDER, YOU ARE SITTING
29:04NEXT TO SHARMEEN, ALSO FROM A
29:10COUNTRY, LET'S FACE IT,
29:11PAKISTAN, THAT WOULD NEVER WEAR
29:12A WRAP DRESS.
29:13WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO BE A
29:16SUCCESSFUL WOMAN IN PAKISTAN?
29:19>> I'M VERY MUCH A PRODUCT OF
29:23PAKISTAN.
29:24I LIVE AND WORK OUT OF PAKISTAN.
29:26THE SPACE EXISTS FOR WOMEN LIKE
29:28MYSELF TO BE THERE.
29:29WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT
29:30EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR OUR RIGHTS.
29:32LET'S BE HONEST, WOMEN IN
29:34AMERICA ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR
29:37REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.
29:38WOMEN IN EUROPE ARE FIGHTING FOR
29:39THEIR RIGHTS.
29:40THERE ARE STEPS BEING TAKEN
29:42AROUND THE WORLD FOR WOMEN WHO
29:43ARE BEING PUSHED BACK.
29:44SOME OF US LIVE IN COUNTRIES
29:47WHICH ARE MORE DIFFICULT FOR
29:47WOMEN THAN OTHERS.
29:49I WILL SAY WOMEN LIKE MYSELF
29:51STAY IN OUR COUNTRIES, WE SPEAK
29:52OUT AND WE TRY AND PUSH THE
29:54NARRATIVE FORWARD SO THAT OUR
29:56CHILDREN AND OUR DAUGHTERS HAVE
29:57A BETTER TOMORROW.
30:00>> I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN WHEN
30:03YOU TOUCH ON DIANE'S SEXUALITY.
30:05THERE WAS THAT AMAZING CLIP
30:08WHERE DIANE TALKS ABOUT HAVING
30:09HAD AN AFFAIR -- I DON'T KNOW
30:12HOW YOU DESCRIBE IT WITH WARREN
30:22BEATTY AND MICK JAGGER.
30:26WHY DID YOU WANT TO INCLUDE
30:28THAT?
30:28>> YOU SHOULD REALLY ASK ME WHY
30:30I SAID THAT.
30:33THE TRUTH IS THAT, AT THAT TIME,
30:37YOU KNOW, IT WAS SOMETHING TO
30:40BOAST ABOUT.
30:41WHY A BUSINESSMAN CAN GO ON
30:43TOUR, ARRIVE AT THE BEVERLY
30:45HILLS HOTEL AND GO OUT WITH ONE
30:48MAN AND ONE GIRL AND ANOTHER
30:49GIRL THE NEXT DAY AND WHY CAN'T
30:51A WOMAN DO THAT?
30:55WHY?
30:55I MEAN, IT'S PART OF JUST
30:59SPEAKING THE TRUTH.
31:00I WAS QUITE PROUD OF IT.
31:03I ACTUALLY STILL AM.
31:05THEY WERE HOT.
31:06THEY WERE IN THEIR EARLY 30s.
31:07>> I WANT TO FLIP BACK TO YOUR
31:09HUSBAND, YOUR FIRST HUSBAND,
31:14PRINCE von FURSTENBERG.
31:16HE WAS GAY.
31:17IT WAS AT A TIME OF THIS
31:21TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE AIDS CRISIS
31:22IN NEW YORK.
31:23HE DID DEVELOP AIDS.
31:26HE DIED OF IT.
31:27I JUST WONDER WHAT IMPACT THAT
31:30HAD ON YOUR CHILDREN AND ON YOU.
31:32YOU HAD TWO CHILDREN WITH HIM.
31:34>> FIRST OF ALL, MORE THAN BEING
31:37GAY, HE WAS PROMISCUOUS.
31:42THERE WAS A TIME IN NEW YORK
31:44WHERE PEOPLE WERE VERY
31:46PROMISCUOUS.
31:47THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, AIDS CAME.
31:50IT WAS HARD MOSTLY FOR MY
31:52CHILDREN, BECAUSE THEY WERE
31:53GROWING UP AT THAT TIME.
31:54THEY WERE TEENAGERS.
31:55TO BE TEENAGERS AND TO HAVE A
32:01FEAR OF A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP
32:03COULD KILL YOU WAS SOMETHING
32:05VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I GREW
32:07UP WITH.
32:08THEY TALK ABOUT IT IN THE MOVIE.
32:12WE NEVER REALLY ACTUALLY
32:16ADDRESSED IT WHILE HE WAS THERE.
32:17THE THREE OF US WERE WITH HIM
32:20WHEN HE DIED.
32:21IT WAS A VERY PROFOUND MOMENT.
32:23ACTUALLY, A VERY BEAUTIFUL
32:26MOMENT.
32:27>> I WILL ALSO SAY.
32:28ONE OF THE BEAUTIES ABOUT THE
32:29FILM -- ONE OF THE MOST
32:31INCREDIBLE THINGS ABOUT THE FILM
32:32IS HOW HONEST THE FAMILY IS.
32:35THE CHILDREN OPEN UP THEIR
32:38RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR MOTHER,
32:38THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR
32:41FATHER.
32:41IT'S THE HONESTY IN TELLING
32:43THEIR STORY THAT MAKES DIANE'S
32:45STORY SO MUCH STRONGER.
32:46>> SHARMEEN, I WANT TO ASK YOU,
32:49BECAUSE YOU DID -- THEY ARE
32:51ADULTS.
32:51YOU GOT HER KIDS TO OPEN UP AND
32:53APPEAR AND TALK.
32:54I WAS ACTUALLY REALLY, REALLY
32:56KIND OF MOVED WHEN DIANE IS
32:59READING THIS LETTER WHEN SHE WAS
33:01A KID THAT HER DAUGHTER WROTE
33:03HER.
33:03IT SAYS, DEAR MOMMY, I WAS
33:05WONDERING IF I COULD HAVE A TALK
33:06WITH YOU SOMETIME, BECAUSE
33:08MOMMY, YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING
33:09ABOUT MY LIFE.
33:11THAT JUST WAS LIKE A DAGGER
33:13THROUGH MY HEART.
33:15I GUESS, SHARMEEN, HOW DID YOU
33:17FEEL ABOUT THAT MOMENT?
33:19>> I LOVE THAT LETTER.
33:21I LOVE THAT LETTER SO MUCH THAT
33:24I HAVE IT PINNED.
33:25>> IT WAS BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T
33:27AROUND.
33:27>> YES.
33:29BUT IT'S PART OF THE PROCESS.
33:34WHEN YOUR CHILDREN GROW UP, IT'S
33:35PART OF THE PROCESS.
33:38THEY TEST YOU.
33:39YOU TEST THEM.
33:41THEY THOUGHT I WASN'T THERE MUST
33:42HAVE.
33:43I WAS ACTUALLY THERE MORE THAN
33:44THEY THOUGHT.
33:45I NEVER LEFT THEM MENTALLY.
33:47WHEN THEY WENT TO BOARDING
33:49SCHOOL, I WROTE EVERY DAY.
33:51THEN YOU GO THROUGH A PROCESS.
33:52THEY GROW UP.
33:56MY CHILDREN AND I, WE TALK TWICE
33:58A DAY AT LEAST.
34:00>> AS SOMEONE WHO IS A WORKING
34:02MOTHER AND WHO TRAVELS A LOT FOR
34:04WORK, READING THAT LETTER AND
34:06SORT OF FILMING THE RELATIONSHIP
34:08THAT DIANE HAS WITH HER CHILDREN
34:10REALLY TAUGHT ME A LOT ABOUT
34:12MYSELF.
34:13DIANE AND I WOULD SAY, 25 YEARS
34:15FROM NOW, YOUR CHILDREN ARE
34:17GOING TO BE TELLING YOU THAT YOU
34:18WERE NOT THERE FOR THEM.
34:21LET'S BE HONEST, WE'RE NOT
34:24MIRACLE WORKERS.
34:25THERE'S A BALL THAT WILL DROP.
34:26AS LONG AS WE PICK IT UP AND
34:27MOVE ON.
34:28I THINK THIS FILM WILL RESONATE
34:30WITH WORKING MOTHERS EVERYWHERE.
34:32THEY WILL SEE A REFLECTION OF
34:33THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIP WITH
34:35THEIR CHILDREN IN THE LETTERS,
34:37IN THE MOMENTS THAT THEY FEEL
34:39LIKE THEIR CHILDREN MISSED OUT
34:40ON OR THEY MISSED OUT ON.
34:41>> I FINALLY WANT TO ASK YOU,
34:44DIANE, BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE
34:46LOVE OF YOUR LIFE WITH YOUR
34:48HUSBAND.
34:49WHAT IS IT ABOUT LIFE THAT MAKES
34:53YOU PLEASED, SATISFIED AT THE
34:55AGE OF 77, THAT YOU CAN SAY,
34:57YES, THIS IS WHAT IT'S ALL
35:00ABOUT?
35:00>> FIRST, IT'S FAMILY.
35:01WHEN YOU LOOK BACK -- I'M NOW
35:05ENTERING HOPEFULLY THE WINTER OF
35:07MY LIFE, WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT
35:10THE END.
35:10THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE
35:11FAMILY.
35:13THE THING I'M PROUDEST OF, MY
35:15BEST SAMPLES ARE MY FAMILY.
35:20THEN IT'S REALLY HONORING LIFE.
35:23MY MOTHER DID NOT DIE.
35:26FOR WHATEVER MIRACLE, SHE DID
35:27NOT DIE.
35:28SHE SURVIVED.
35:29SHE PUT THE TORCH OF FREEDOM IN
35:32MY HAND.
35:33ALL I DID, TRIED TO DO ALL MY
35:36LIFE, IS HONORING LIFE.
35:39>> IT'S BEEN AN AMAZING LIFE.
35:41IT CONTINUES TO BE.
35:42I WANT TO MAYBE END UP WITH YOU,
35:44SHARMEEN.
35:45YOU HAVE DONE A LOT OF
35:46DOCUMENTARIES.
35:47YOU ARE THE FIRST WOMAN AND THE
35:49FIRST WOMAN OF COLOR TO DIRECT A
35:52"STAR WARS."
35:53>> YES.
35:53LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT.
35:55>> COME ON, MORE THAN THAT.
35:57THAT'S GIGANTIC.
35:57THAT'S MASSIVE.
36:00>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I WILL SAY
36:01THIS.
36:04FOLLOWING YOUR OWN YELLOW BRICK
36:06ROAD HAS BEEN VERY IMPORTANT TO
36:07ME.
36:09I HAVE CHARTED MY OWN TRAJECTORY
36:12FROM THE COUNTRY I COME FROM
36:13RIGHT HERE TO HOLLYWOOD.
36:15I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT
36:16BECAUSE A NUMBER OF WOMEN HAVE
36:18LEFT THE DOOR OPEN FOR ME TO
36:20WALK THROUGH.
36:21I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I
36:23HOPE WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.
36:25THAT'S SOMETHING I HOPE I WILL
36:26BE ABLE TO DO FOR OTHER WOMEN.
36:28>> THAT'S A REALLY NICE WAY TO
36:29END IT.
36:30>> THAT IS REALLY THE REASON WHY
36:32WE DID THIS MOVIE.
36:34>> IT'S A LOVELY WAY TO END.
36:37DIANE von FURSTENBERG, SHARMEEN
36:39OBAID-CHINOY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
36:40>> THANK YOU.
36:41>> THANK YOU.
36:42>> POWERHOUSES BOTH, DIANE von
36:44FURSTENBERG AND SHARMEEN
36:45OBAID-CHINOY.
36:51>>> THIS WEEK, THE UNITED STATES
36:55IS MARKING JUNETEENTH.
36:59NEARLY 160 YEARS LATER, THE
37:01FINANCIAL INEQUALITY BETWEEN
37:02AFRICAN AMERICANS AND THEIR
37:04WHITE PEERS REMAINS STARK.
37:06AS OUR NEXT GUESTS LAY OUT IN
37:09THEIR NEW BOOK, "FIFTEEN CENTS
37:11ON THE DOLLAR: HOW AMERICANS
37:12MADE THE BLACK-WHITE WEALTH
37:14GAP."
37:16THE CO-AUTHORS DISCUSS POSSIBLE
37:20SOLUTIONS TO CLOSING THAT GAP.
37:23>> THANKS.
37:24LOUISE STORY, EBONY REED, THANK
37:26YOU FOR JOINING US.
37:28YOUR BOOK IS CALLED "FIFTEEN
37:29CENTS ON THE DOLLAR: HOW
37:31AMERICANS MADE THE BLACK-WHITE
37:32WEALTH GAP."
37:33EBONY, LET ME START WITH YOU.
37:36EXPLAIN THAT PHRASE.
37:37>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
37:3915 CENTS IS THE TYPICAL AMOUNT
37:41OF WEALTH A BLACK FAMILY HAS IN
37:43AMERICA FOR EVERY $1 A TYPICAL
37:45WHITE FAMILY HAS.
37:46THIS IS DATA FROM THE FEDERAL
37:49RESERVE.
37:49>> LOUISE, WHY WRITE THE STORY
37:51IN THE FIRST PLACE?
37:52>> EBONY AND I WERE WORKING
37:53TOGETHER AT "THE WALL STREET
37:55JOURNAL" IN THE SUMMER OF 2020.
37:57AS COLLEAGUES AND AS FRIENDS, WE
37:59STARTED HAVING MANY OF THE SAME
38:00CONVERSATIONS I'M SURE YOU HAD
38:01AND MANY PEOPLE YOU KNOW HAD,
38:03WHICH IS, WOW, WHERE DO THINGS
38:07STAND ON RACE TODAY?
38:08IN PARTICULAR SINCE WE WERE AT
38:11"THE WALL STREET JOURNAL," WHERE
38:12DO THINGS STAND ON RACE AND
38:14MONEY?
38:15WE READ BOOKS TOGETHER.
38:16WE LOOKED UP DATA.
38:17I WILL NEVER FORGET WHEN WE CAME
38:19UP WITH HOW MANY CENTS ON THE
38:21DOLLAR IT WAS, I CALLED UP EBONY
38:23AND I SAID, DID YOU REALIZE THIS
38:25FIGURE?
38:26WE THOUGHT IT WAS FASCINATING.
38:28WE FOUND OUT BY LOOKING AROUND
38:30THAT THERE WAS NOT A BOOK
38:34THROUGH HISTORY.
38:34IT DIDN'T EXIST.
38:36WE DECIDED WE WERE THE PERFECT
38:37PAIR TO WRITE IT.
38:38>> LOUISE, I CAN UNDERSTAND THE
38:40CONTEXT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING
38:41WITH THE PANDEMIC AND THE MURDER
38:44OF GEORGE FLOYD, WHY IT WAS
38:53IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
38:54THERE'S A WEALTH GAP.
38:56WHAT WAS FASCINATING TO YOU
38:58ABOUT THE DIMENSION OF RACE IN
39:00THIS?
39:00>> ACTUALLY, THERE'S A MORE
39:04SEVERE WEALTH GAP AMONG RACES
39:06THAN THERE ARE JUST AMONG WHITE
39:07AMERICANS.
39:08YOU ARE CORRECT, THERE'S A
39:10DISTRIBUTIONAL AFFECT THAT
39:11AFFECTS ALL PEOPLE.
39:12THERE'S A WEALTH GAP AMONG WHITE
39:14AMERICANS.
39:15BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHITE
39:17VERSUS BLACK AMERICANS AT EVERY
39:19INCOME LEVEL, THERE IS A WEALTH
39:22GAP.
39:22WHITE AMERICANS, EVEN THOSE WHO
39:24HAVE LESS MONEY THAN THE RICHEST
39:26WHITE AMERICANS, STILL HAVE MORE
39:28WEALTH COMPARED TO BLACK
39:30AMERICANS WITH THE SAME INCOME.
39:33FRANKLY, THAT WAS FASCINATING TO
39:35ME, BECAUSE I GREW UP IN THE
39:371980s.
39:37I REMEMBER WHEN MARTIN LUTHER
39:39KING DAY BECAME A HOLIDAY IN THE
39:41SAME SORT OF CELEBRATORY WAY AS
39:44JUNETEENTH BECAME A HOLIDAY.
39:46I GREW UP HEARING THAT THE CIVIL
39:48RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAD WORKED AND
39:50THAT THINGS HAD BEEN SOLVED.
39:52FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND IN THE
39:55NUMBERS -- I HAVE BEEN A
39:58FINANCIAL EDITOR AND FINANCIAL
40:00REPORTER ALL MY CAREER.
40:01UNDERSTANDING FROM THE NUMBERS
40:03THAT THERE'S STILL SUCH A BIG
40:05GAP, I THOUGHT IT WAS NOTEWORTHY
40:08AND PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW IT.
40:14>> WHY DID YOU FOCUS ON ATLANTA?
40:16YOU GO BACK ALL THE WAY TO RACE
40:19RIOTS IN 1906 AND FURTHER ON HOW
40:22THIS WEALTH GAP TRANSLATES INTO
40:26HOW WE SEE A MODERN AMERICAN
40:27CITY.
40:27>> RIGHT.
40:29ATLANTA HAS BEEN CONSIDERED THE
40:30BLACK MECCA BECAUSE OF ITS LARGE
40:33POPULATION OF BLACK AMERICANS
40:34THERE.
40:34A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THAT'S
40:37A PLACE, BECAUSE OF OPPORTUNITY,
40:39THAT BLACK AMERICANS CAN MAKE
40:40IT.
40:41IN OUR BOOK, WE HAVE A CHAPTER
40:42ON THE TWO ATLANTAS.
40:44WE REALLY SHINE A LIGHT ON THE
40:49BLACK WEALTH GAP.
40:50BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE
40:51BETWEEN BLACK AMERICANS WHO ARE
40:53DOING WELL ECONOMICALLY AND THE
40:56EXPERIENCES OF THOSE WHO ARE
40:59NOT.
41:00BECAUSE OUR BOOK COVERS BLACK
41:04AMERICANS FROM ALL AREAS, PEOPLE
41:05WILL SEE THE DIFFERENCES IN
41:06ADDITION TO UNDERSTANDING ABOUT
41:08THE WHITE-BLACK WEALTH GAP.
41:11>> YOU FOLLOW GREENWOOD BANK.
41:13FOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF ATLANTA
41:15WHO MIGHT NOT BE AWARE OF IT,
41:16WHY WAS THIS BANK SIGNIFICANT?
41:19THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO
41:21RIGHT WRONGS.
41:23>> GREENWOOD BANK AS IT WAS
41:25FIRST CALLED WAS SET UP IN THE
41:27SUMMER OF 2020 BY NOTABLE
41:31PEOPLE.
41:31THE RAPPER KILLER MIKE, HE WON
41:35THREE GRAMMYS.
41:36HE SET IT UP IN PARTNERSHIP WITH
41:39ANDREW YOUNG, A FORMER MAYOR OF
41:41ATLANTA AND A CIVIL RIGHTS
41:43LEADER.
41:43THEY ARE FAMOUS.
41:44PEOPLE ADMIRE THEM.
41:46THEY SAID THAT THE MISSION OF
41:48THIS NEW COMPANY WOULD BE TO
41:50HELP CLOSE RACIAL WEALTH GAPS.
41:52THAT REALLY EXCITED AND
41:54INTERESTED PEOPLE.
41:55WE TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN
41:57OUT AT MANY DEMONSTRATIONS IN
41:59THE SUMMER OF 2020.
42:01YES, THEY WERE DEMONSTRATING
42:01ABOUT THE MURDER OF GEORGE
42:03FLOYD.
42:04BUT THEY WERE ALSO DEMONSTRATING
42:06AROUND SYSTEMIC INEQUITIES.
42:09MONEY WAS ON MANY PEOPLE'S
42:11MINDS.
42:11THIS OFFERED A SOLUTION.
42:12PEOPLE ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY
42:14SIGNED UP.
42:15THIS IS A NATIONAL COMPANY.
42:19IT'S A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY THAT
42:21IS A BANKING PLATFORM.
42:27THEY WERE VERY EXCITED.
42:33THEY WERE HOPING GREENWOOD WOULD
42:34MAKE LENDING MORE INCLUSIVE.
42:36>> DID IT WORK?
42:37>> SO FAR, GREENWOOD HAS NOT HAD
42:40THE TRACTION AND THE EFFECT THAT
42:42PEOPLE WERE HOPING FOR AT THE
42:43BEGINNING.
42:44I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, STARTUPS
42:46TAKE A LONG TIME TO COME TO
42:49FRUITION.
42:49THE STORY IS NOT FULLY TOLD.
42:51WE THINK THE FOUNDERS HAD REALLY
42:52GOOD INTENTIONS.
42:54IT'S A HARD PATH TO PURSUE TO
42:57CHANGE THINGS.
42:58REMEMBER, THE WHOLE FINANCIAL
43:00INFRASTRUCTURE REALLY IS SET UP
43:02AND RUN BY LARGELY WHITE-OWNED
43:05ENTITIES.
43:06FOR SOMEBODY TO COME IN AND TRY
43:10GO SOMETHING WITH BLACK CAPITAL,
43:11IT'S DIFFICULT TO CHANGE THINGS.
43:12>> YOU HAVE A CHARACTER IN THE
43:15BOOK.
43:15SHE SAYS IT'S MORE DIFFICULT FOR
43:17BLACK ENTREPRENEURS TO GET
43:19STARTED.
43:19BLACK AMERICANS HAVE FEWER
43:21CONTACTED WHO CAN FORM BUSINESS
43:23PARTNERSHIPS AND INVEST.
43:24PART OF IT IS GETTING A LOAN.
43:26NUMEROUS STUDIES HAVE SHOWN
43:27BLACK BUSINESSOWNERS HAVE NOT
43:29BEEN TREATED EQUALLY.
43:30BLACK AMERICANS ARE NOT OFFERED
43:32AS MANY CREDIT OPTIONS AS WHITE
43:35BORROWERS.
43:35EVEN WHEN BLACK AMERICANS BECOME
43:38ENTREPRENEURS, THEY SOMETIMES
43:39STRUGGLE TO GET CAPITAL TO
43:41SUPPORT THEIR OPERATIONS.
43:43WHAT WERE THE EXPERIENCES THAT
43:45SHE WAS SHARING WITH YOU ABOUT
43:47THIS INEQUITY IN.
43:48>> SHE WAS TRYING TO RAISE UP
43:50HER FAMILY'S ECONOMIC FORTUNE.
43:53HER FAMILY HAS FARMLAND IN NORTH
43:54CAROLINA.
43:54SHE WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
43:56WHAT TO DO WITH IT AND HOW TO
43:58TRANSLATE THAT INTO AN ECONOMIC
44:00MOBILITY MOVEMENT FOR HER
44:01FAMILY.
44:03SHE TALKED WITH US ABOUT HER
44:05STRUGGLES AS A ENTREPRENEUR.
44:07I WOULD LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT SOME
44:08OTHER STRUGGLES SHE FACED.
44:10SHE WANTED TO BECOME A
44:12HOMEOWNER.
44:13THAT'S ONE OF THE DRIVERS FOR
44:14WEALTH IN OUR COUNTRY.
44:16AFTER THREE YEARS OF TRYING, SHE
44:18FACED ISSUES WITH UNEMPLOYMENT.
44:20AT THE SAME TIME, SHE WAS TRYING
44:21TO START A BUSINESS.
44:23SHE STILL HAD NOT BEEN ABLE TO
44:24PURCHASE A HOME THREE YEARS
44:26LATER.
44:26>> LOUISE, ONE OF THE CHARACTERS
44:28WE MEET IN THE BOOK IS BROOK
44:30BACON WHO IS BLACK AND MARRIED
44:31TO A WHITE WOMAN.
44:33EVEN IN THE DYNAMIC OF JUST THIS
44:36INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIP, YOU
44:38ARE ABLE TO TEASE OUT THE
44:40DIFFERENT FINANCIAL TREND LINES
44:41GOING BACK IN HISTORY THROUGH
44:42THEIR FAMILIES.
44:43>> YES.
44:46BROOK AND HIS WIFE WERE AN
44:49INTERESTING EXAMPLE.
44:50WE WERE ACTUALLY ABLE TO TRACE
44:51BACK THEIR FAMILY LINES BACK TO
44:53THE 1860s.
44:56THERE'S DATA WE RUN THROUGH THE
44:58BOOK ON THE SIZE OF THE
44:59BLACK-WHITE WEALTH GAP.
45:01AFTER 1860, THE AVERAGE WHITE
45:05FAMILY HAD 58 TIMES THE WEALTH
45:06OF THE AVERAGE BLACK FAMILY.
45:08IT TURNED OUT WHEN WE TRACED HER
45:11FAMILY BACK, AND WHEN WE TRACED
45:13HIS FAMILY BACK, A WHITE FAMILY
45:15AND A BLACK FAMILY, THE RATIO OF
45:19THEIR WEALTH WAS 58 TO 1.
45:20HERE WE HAD THIS COUPLE LIVING
45:23TODAY.
45:24THEIR PRIOR GENERATIONS WERE AT
45:26THE AVERAGE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO
45:26OUR COUNTRY.
45:29WE UNDERSTOOD THROUGH THEIR
45:31GRANDPARENTS, GREAT
45:34GRANDPARENTS, ALL THE WAY, THE
45:34DIFFERENT THINGS THAT HAPPENED
45:35WITH THEM.
45:36HER FAMILY IS NOT A SUPER RICH
45:37FAMILY.
45:39BUT THERE WERE THINGS SHE HAD
45:40BEEN ABLE TO DO, HER PARENTS HAD
45:44BEEN ABLE TO DO.
45:45THEY REALLY GO THROUGH A RACIAL
45:48RECKONING IN THE NARRATIVE AND
45:50THE STORY OF OUR BOOK BECAUSE
45:53THERE WAS A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY IN
45:55THE SUMMER OF 2020.
45:57HIS FATHER WAS SHOT BY A POLICE
46:02OFFICER.
46:02WE FOLLOWED THE STORY OF WHAT
46:05THEY DID TO COME TO TERMS WITH
46:07THAT.
46:07WE WENT ON A JUSTICE WALK WITH
46:09THEM.
46:10IT WAS A 63-MILE JUSTICE WALK
46:11AND HEARD THE STORY.
46:13IN REFLECTING WITH THEM OVER THE
46:15YEARS -- WE HAD MANY INTERVIEWS.
46:17AT ONE POINT SHE SAID TO US, SHE
46:20HADN'T REALIZED, BUT IN HER
46:22BEING A WHITE PERSON AND HER
46:24MARRYING A BLACK PERSON THE WAY
46:25SHE PUT IT WAS, SHE HAD TAKEN ON
46:29SYSTEMIC DEBT.
46:29SHE WAS REFERRING TO THE STUDENT
46:33LOANS THAT HE HAD NOT PAID OFF
46:35AT THAT POINT.
46:36IT WAS INTERESTING HEARING BOTH
46:37OF THEIR PERSPECTIVES OF HOW
46:40THEIR LIFE AND THEIR FINANCES
46:41AND THE LEGACY OF THEIR RACES
46:43WERE INTERTWINED IN THEIR
46:46MARRIAGE.
46:46>> EBONY, THIS TRAGEDY THAT
46:53LOUISE MENTIONED.
46:54IT LED TO A FINANCIAL WINDFALL.
46:56WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT MONEY?
46:59>> BROOK TOOK THAT MONEY THAT HE
47:00WAS AWARDED FROM THE STATE OF
47:02GEORGIA AND HE SHARED IT WITH
47:04SOME OF HIS RELATIVES.
47:06HE HAD RELATIVES THAT HAD HELPED
47:09BURY HIS FATHER.
47:10HE ALSO WANTED TO HELP HIS MOM.
47:13THEN HE ALSO WAS ABLE TO SAVE
47:15THAT MONEY AND HE TALKED WITH US
47:18ABOUT HOW IT SET HIM UP FOR
47:20GENERATIONAL WEALTH FOR HIS
47:22CHILDREN.
47:22HE IS SAVING A PORTION OF THAT
47:25TO HELP HIS FAMILY IN THE
47:28FUTURE.
47:28OF COURSE, NO AMOUNT OF MONEY
47:29CAN EVER REPLACE A LOVED ONE.
47:33>> LOUISE, ONE OF THE PEOPLE IN
47:35BROOK'S FATHER'S CASE WAS JAMES
47:39WOODALL WHO WAS AT THE TIME THE
47:40PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP IN
47:43GEORGIA.
47:43HE SERVED EIGHT YEARS IN THE
47:45MILITARY.
47:46YOU POINT OUT ALL THESE
47:48STRUCTURAL DISADVANTAGES EVEN IN
47:50THEIR OWN LIVES.
47:51>> JAMES WOODALL WAS A RISING
47:53STAR IN THE NAACP.
47:54YOU PROBABLY SAW HIM ON
47:56TELEVISION IN 2020, BECAUSE HE
47:58WAS OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT SOME
48:01OF THE DIFFERENT POLICE
48:03SHOOTINGS AND CASES THAT YEAR.
48:07WE EXAMINED HIS FAMILY'S
48:09TRAJECTORY AND HIS LIFE.
48:11WHEN HE WAS A CHILD, HIS MOM WAS
48:13MOVING HIM AROUND ALL THE TIME.
48:16THEY MOVED MANY, MANY TIMES A
48:19YEAR AS THEY STRUGGLED AND AS
48:21SHE STRUGGLED TO PAY THE RENT IN
48:23MANY PLACES.
48:25SOMETIMES WHEN SHE NEEDED TO GET
48:27CREDIT TO KEEP ON THE
48:28ELECTRICITY, SHE USED HIS SOCIAL
48:31SECURITY NUMBER OR HIS SIBLING'S
48:33SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.
48:35WHEN HE WAS AN ADULT, HE HAD
48:38TARNISHED CREDIT.
48:38SHE TOOK OUT STUDENT LOANS TO
48:40HAVE FUNDING TO HELP FEED HER
48:44CHILDREN.
48:46HIS MOTHER, I THINK A LOT OF
48:48READERS WILL EMPATHIZE WITH HER.
48:51HIS STORY IS VERY MOVING AND IT
48:53HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND --
48:54SOMETIMES YOU SEE SOMEONE AT THE
48:56FOREFRONT OUT THERE AT THE FRONT
48:57OF THE LINE FOR THE NAACP AND
48:58YOU DON'T KNOW THEIR STORY.
49:00HE LIVED A STORY OF STRUGGLES.
49:03ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COMES
49:05THROUGH WHEN YOU FOLLOW HIS
49:06STORY IS THAT HE PUSHED INSIDE
49:07THE NAACP FOR CHANGE.
49:09HE PUSHED FOR THE NAACP TO PAY
49:13MORE OF ITS STATE LEADERS.
49:15MANY OF THE POSITIONS ARE
49:17VOLUNTEER.
49:17WHEN HE PUSHED FOR REFORM, HE
49:20REALLY RUFFLED FEATHERS.
49:22HIS STORY IS A GOOD ONE TO READ.
49:24>> EBONY, IF YOU COULD FOR
49:27PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING
49:29ATTENTION TO THE STRUCTURAL
49:31FORCES OF WHAT REINFORCE -- WHAT
49:34CREATED THESE WEALTH GAPS, GOING
49:36BACK IN WOODALL'S CASE TO HIS
49:39GRANDFATHER AND THE G.I. BILL,
49:40ALL THE WAY TO RED LINING, WHAT
49:43ARE SOME OF THE BIG STRUCTURAL
49:48CAUSES FOR AN INCREASE IN THIS
49:51WEALTH GAP?
49:51>> I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO
49:54THE BEGINNING WHEN BLACK
49:56AMERICANS WERE ENSLAVED PEOPLE.
49:57THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF WORKING
49:59AND NOT BEING PAID.
50:02WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE WEALTH
50:03GAP.
50:03AS WE MOVE THROUGH HISTORY, AS
50:06LOUISE AND I COVER IN THIS BOOK,
50:09YOU PEOPLE WILL SEE POINTS WHERE
50:10PROGRAMS WERE IN PLACE,
50:12SOMETIMES THEY WERE
50:14EXCLUSIONARY, SOMETIMES THERE
50:15WERE PROGRAMS THAT HAD -- WERE
50:18NOT PROPERLY SET UP IN A WAY FOR
50:21BLACK AMERICANS TO PARTICIPATE
50:22OR TO THRIVE IN THEM.
50:23YOU MENTIONED THE G.I. BILL.
50:25THAT'S A GOOD ONE TO MENTION.
50:27WHEN IT WAS SET UP TO BENEFIT
50:29VETERANS OF WORLD WAR II, IT WAS
50:31FOR ALL VETERANS, REGARDLESS OF
50:34RACE.
50:35IT WAS NOT ADMINISTERED AT A
50:37FEDERAL LEVEL.
50:38IT WAS ADMINISTERED IN LOCAL
50:39COMMUNITIES.
50:40BECAUSE OF THAT AND BECAUSE
50:41THERE WAS DISCRIMINATION ON THE
50:42LOCAL LEVEL IN SOME COMMUNITIES,
50:45MANY BLACK AMERICANS, THE VAST
50:48AMOUNT THAT WERE VETERANS AND
50:49TRIED TO USE THE BILL WERE NOT
50:52ABLE TO.
50:52THERE ARE SOME ESTIMATES THAT
50:54LESS THAN 3% OF BLACK AMERICANS
50:57WERE ABLE TO USE THE G.I. BILL
50:59FOR HOUSING.
51:00IT WAS, OF COURSE, SET UP FOR
51:03HOUSING, EDUCATION AND ALSO THE
51:05ABILITY TO START BUSINESSES.
51:07IN OUR BOOK WE HAVE MANY
51:10FAMILIES, MORE THAN HALF A
51:11DOZEN, THAT WE INTERVIEWED THAT
51:12TOLD US THEIR FAMILY STORIES
51:14ABOUT HOW THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO
51:16USE THE G.I. BILL, WHICH
51:19CONTRIBUTED TO THE SETUP OF
51:21WHITE MIDDLE CLASS IN OUR
51:22COUNTRY.
51:22WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THAT, THIS
51:24WAS A POINT IN HISTORY WHERE
51:28BLACK AMERICANS -- THEY WERE NOT
51:29ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE
51:30BENEFIT THAT WOULD HAVE HAD AN
51:32ECONOMIC IMPACT FOR MANY OF THEM
51:34THAT WERE VETERANS.
51:35>> AND THEIR FAMILIES.
51:36>> EBONY, BOTH OF YOU HAVE DONE
51:38A FANTASTIC JOB OF LAYING OUT
51:40WHAT GOT US HERE.
51:41YOU ALSO GO KIND OF A STEP
51:43FURTHER.
51:43YOU DO HAVE A LIST OF DIFFERENT
51:45TYPES OF SOLUTIONS THAT YOU
51:46THINK CAN HELP IMPROVE THIS
51:48PROBLEM.
51:49IF YOU CAN, SUMMARIZE SOME OF
51:49THOSE FOR US.
51:52>> SURE.
51:53ONE OF OUR PERSONAL
51:55RECOMMENDATIONS FOR PEOPLE IS
51:57THAT AT SOME POINT IN THEIR
51:59LIVES, THEY CONSIDER WORKING ON
52:00A PROJECT OR INITIATIVE WITH A
52:03PERSON WHO IS DIFFERENT FROM
52:04THEM SO THEY CAN UNDERSTAND
52:06ANOTHER PERSON'S LIVED
52:09EXPERIENCE AND SOME OF THE
52:09ISSUES THEY ARE FACING TODAY IN
52:13SOCIETY.
52:13LOUISE AND I ARE AN EXAMPLE OF
52:15THIS.
52:15NOT ONLY HAVE WE WORKED TOGETHER
52:18ON THIS BOOK AND WE MAY APPEAR
52:20TO PEOPLE WITH THE VISUAL EYE
52:22THAT SHE'S WHITE AND I'M BLACK,
52:25BUT WE ALSO HAD TO WORK THROUGH
52:27GEOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCES TO CREATE
52:28THIS BOOK.
52:29I LIVE IN KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI.
52:31SHE'S BASED ON THE EAST COAST.
52:33WE HAD TO WORK THROUGH FAMILY
52:35STRUCTURE DIFFERENCES.
52:37SHE'S MARRIED AND HAS THREE
52:41CHILDREN.
52:42I'M SINGLE AND WAS WIDOWS IN THE
52:45PANDEMIC.
52:45WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE
52:47EQUITABLE?
52:47HOW WOULD WE PAY FOR EXPENSES
52:49RELATED TO THE BOOK, SPEND OUR
52:50TIME?
52:50WE JUST THINK IF MORE AMERICANS
52:52WERE ABLE TO HAVE THIS
52:55EXPERIENCE THAT IT WOULD
52:56INFLUENCE HOW THEY THINK ABOUT
52:57EVERYTHING IN OUR COUNTRY FROM
52:59AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND STUDENT
53:01LOANS AND OTHER POLICIES, IF
53:02THEY COULD UNDERSTAND THE
53:03EXPERIENCE OF OTHER PEOPLE.
53:07>> LOUISE, YOU ARE BOTH CHOOSING
53:12TO RETURN THE PROFITS FROM THIS
53:15BOOK TO DIFFERENT CAUSES.
53:16EXPLAIN THAT.
53:17>> YES.
53:19THE BOOK COVERS MANY THINGS.
53:20ONE OF THE THINGS IT DOES COVER
53:22IS HOW SOMETIMES WHITE
53:24BUSINESSES OR WHITE ENTITIES
53:26HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BLACK
53:30AMERICANS.
53:30I'M REALLY GRATEFUL FOR THE TIME
53:32AND THE STORIES THAT THE PEOPLE
53:34IN OUR BOOK SHARED WITH US.
53:36THEY SHARED THEIR STORIES TO
53:37MAKE AN IMPACT.
53:39OF COURSE, AS JOURNALISTS WE DO
53:41NOT COMPENSATE PEOPLE FOR THEIR
53:43STORIES.
53:43THAT'S A STANDARD JOURNALISM
53:45PRACTICE.
53:45I JUST DECIDED EARLY ON THAT I
53:48WANTED TO VOLUNTEER COMPLETELY
53:49ON THIS PROJECT.
53:51THIS HAS BEEN A THREE-YEAR
53:52VOLUNTEER PROJECT FOR ME.
53:53WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT I
53:56DONATED ALL PROFITS THAT I'M
53:57MAKING FROM THE BOOK.
53:58I PLEDGED TO DO THAT
54:01PERMANENTLY.
54:01EBONY HAS DONATED A SHARE.
54:03WE ARE DOING THIS TO MAKE A
54:05DIFFERENCE.
54:05OUR NUMBER ONE GOAL IS WE WANT
54:08TO MAKE 15 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR A
54:10NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED STATISTIC.
54:12WE THINK THAT IF MORE AMERICANS
54:14KNEW THIS FIGURE, THEY WOULD
54:16THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT SO MANY
54:17IMPORTANT ISSUES IN OUR SOCIETY.
54:21>> IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR US FOR
54:22PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT WE WEREN'T
54:24JUST TALKING ABOUT THEIR STORIES
54:26BUT THAT WE ALSO WANTED TO GIVE
54:27BACK AND WE WANTED TO
54:31CONTRIBUTE.
54:32SO IT WAS A VERY EASY DECISION
54:33TO MAKE TO SAY, WE WANT TO
54:34SUPPORT CAUSES THAT ARE TIED TO
54:37EDUCATION, JOURNALISM, BLACK
54:39AMERICANS.
54:39SO ON OUR SITE, NOT ONLY CAN
54:43PEOPLE LEARN MORE ABOUT THE
54:44BOOK, BUT THEY CAN LEARN ABOUT
54:45THE EVENTS THAT WE ARE HAVING
54:47AROUND THE COUNTRY AT COMMUNITY
54:52SYMPOSIUMS.
54:52WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THEM AROUND
54:53THE COUNTRY.
54:54WE HAVE MORE STOPS TO MAKE
54:56BEFORE JULY 1.
54:56PEOPLE CAN READ ABOUT THE
54:58NON-PROFITS THAT WE ARE
54:59SUPPORTING THROUGH THIS BOOK.
55:00>> THE BOOK IS "FIFTEEN CENTS ON
55:02THE DOLLAR: HOW AMERICANS MADE
55:03THE BLACK-WHITE WEALTH GAP."
55:05LOUISE STORY, EBONY REED, THANK
55:08YOU FOR JOINING US.
55:09>> THANK YOU.
55:09>> THANK YOU.
55:10>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, A TALE OF
55:12TEAM WORK, HOPE AND BELUGA
55:17WALES.
55:17AS RUSSIA CONTINUES ITS ASSAULT
55:19ON UKRAINE, CITIES CLOSE TO
55:20FRONT LINES AREN'T JUST HAVING
55:21TO MOVE THEIR HUMAN POPULATIONS,
55:23BUT THE ANIMALS ARE IN PERIL AS
55:26WELL.
55:27CREATURES LIKE THIS 15-YEAR-OLD
55:32AND 14-YEAR-OLD WALES IN A ZOO.
55:34THIS WEEK, A DARING EFFORT LED
55:36BY A TEAM OF EXPERTS SAW THE
55:39WALES MOVED TO ODESSA AND FLY
55:42OFF TO SPAIN WHERE THEY REACHED
55:43THEIR NEW HOME, AN AQUARIUM, IN
55:47THE EARLY HOURS OF WEDNESDAY
55:47MORNING, SAFE AND SOUND.
55:50>>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.
55:52THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.
55:53GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.