Amanpour & Co. - June 19, 2024
Mike Valerio reports on Vladimir Putin’s visit to North Korea. Former CIA senior analyst Sue Mi Terry dives deeper into what the relationship between Russia and North Korea means for global politics. In honor of Juneteenth, Equal Justice Initiative director Bryan Stevenson talks about the ongoing fight for racial justice. Chef Bryant Terry celebrates the past and future of Black American food.
Transcript
00:04>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME
00:05TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."
00:06HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
00:10>> Translator: BOTH COUNTRIES
00:12DENOUNCE POLITICALLY MOTIVATED
00:14SANCTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS,
00:15WHICH ONLY DESTABILIZE THE
00:17GLOBAL AND ECONOMIC SYSTEM.
00:18>> A MEETING OF DESPOTS AND AN
00:21ANTI-WEST AXIS.
00:23ANALYSIS, AND PUTIN AND KIM
00:24STRIKE A DEFENSE DEAL.
00:25THEN --
00:27>> AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE
00:28THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT
00:29FEELS MORE LIKE FREEDOM, MORE
00:31LIKE EQUALITY, MORE LIKE
00:32JUSTICE, AND I YOU THIS IT'S
00:34WAITING FOR US.
00:35>> JUNETEENTH.
00:37AS AMERICA CELEBRATING THE END
00:38OF SLAVERY, THE ONGOING STRUGGLE
00:40FOR RACIAL JUSTICE.
00:42CHRISTIANE SPEAKS TO BRYAN
00:45STEVENSON.
00:46PLUS --
00:46>> WE KNOW THAT FOOD HAS ALWAYS
00:47PLAYED A CENTRAL ROLE IN
00:49CULTURAL EXPRESSION, COMMUNITY
00:50BUILDING AND SURVIVAL.
00:51>> THE EVOLUTION AND DIVERSITY
00:54OF AFRICAN AMERICAN CUISINE,
00:55WITH THE AWARD-WINNING CHEF
00:56BRIAN TERRY.
01:07♪♪♪
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01:58>>> HI, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO THE
01:59PROGRAM, I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN
02:01NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR
02:01CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.
02:04A PACT BETWEEN DICTATORS.
02:06VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS WRAPPED UP
02:06HIS TRIP TO NORTH KOREA, WHERE
02:08HE WAS GREETED WITH MUCH
02:11FANFARE.
02:11THERE, HE SIGNED A COMPREHENSIVE
02:14DEFENSE DEAL WITH KIM JONG-UN.
02:15SPEAKING AFTER LENGTHY TALKS,
02:17PUTIN DID NOT RULE OUT, QUOTE,
02:18THE PROVISION OF MUTUAL
02:20ASSISTANCE IN THE EVENT OF
02:22AGGRESSION AGAINST ONE OF THE
02:23PARTIES TO AGREEMENT.
02:24HERE'S THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT.
02:27>> Translator: TODAY, WE HELD
02:29SUBSTANTIVE NEGOTIATIONS ON A
02:31WHOLE RANGE OF PRACTICAL
02:33COOPERATION.
02:33THIS INCLUDES POLITICAL, TRADE,
02:35INVESTMENT, CULTURAL SPHERES,
02:37AND THE SECURITY FEAR, AS WELL.
02:38I AGREE THAT THIS IS TRULY A
02:40BREAK-THROUGH DOCUMENT,
02:42REFLECTING THE DESIRE OF BOTH
02:44COUNTRIES NOT TO STOP AT THEIR
02:47ACHIEVEMENTS, BUT TO RAISE OUR
02:50ACHIEVEMENTS AT A NEW LEVEL.
02:51>> KIM SAID THE EYES OF THE
02:54WORLD WERE ON PYONGYANG, VOWING
02:58HIS FULL SUPPORT FOR PUTIN'S
03:01AND PUTIN CERTAINLY WANTS ARMS
03:02FROM NORTH KOREA.
03:03THE QUESTION IS, WHAT HE IS
03:04WILLING TO GIVE IN RETURN.
03:06AND WHAT IS THIS STRENGTHENING
03:08OF AN ANTI-WEST AXIS MEAN FOR
03:10AMERICA AND ITS ALLIES?
03:11FIRST, LET'S BRING IN
03:12CORRESPONDENT MIKE VALERIO FROM
03:14SEOUL IN SOUTH KOREA FOR MORE ON
03:16THIS VISIT.
03:16MIKE, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT
03:18HOW THIS WAS ALL VIEWED FROM
03:20SEOUL IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT
03:21FIRST, LAY OUT WHAT WE SAW, THE
03:23FIRST TIME THAT RUSSIAN
03:24PRESIDENT PUTIN VISITED
03:27PYONGYANG IN 24 YEARS.
03:28A LOT OF POMP IN THESE PAST 48
03:31HOURS.
03:34>> SURE, ABSOLUTELY, BIANNA.
03:35I THINK REALLY THERE WAS AN
03:37INDELIBLE IMAGE, AND INDELIBLE
03:39POLICY MOMENT THAT FOLLOWED A
03:40COUPLE HOURS AFTER THAT POMP AND
03:42CIRCUMSTANCE REALLY STARTED TO
03:43PLAY OUT IN THE CENTRAL SQUARE.
03:46KIM IL-SUNG SQUARE, THAT COULD
03:48HOLD 100,000 PEOPLE.
03:51THE INDELL EBEL IMAGE IS REALLY
03:55CONVEYING THAT THESE TWO LAIDERS
03:56OF SANCTIONS COUNTRIES CAN GO
03:58THEIR OWN WAY, SURVIVE ON THEIR
04:00OWN.
04:00AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KIM
04:04JONG-UN, VLADIMIR PUTIN, IN AN
04:06OPEN AIR, SLEEK, BLACK LIMO, TO
04:09THE THRONGS OF THOUSANDS OF
04:10PEOPLE WATCHING IN KIM IL-SUNG
04:14SQUARE, TRYING THE PROTECT THIS
04:17IMAGE, THAT, YEAH, WE GOT THIS,
04:19WE'RE STANDING STRONGER
04:21TOGETHER, AND WE CAN GO OUR OWN
04:23WAY, AS EQUAL PARTNERS IN THIS
04:25NEW ALLIANCE THAT KIM JONG-UN
04:29USED THAT POINTED WORD OF
04:31ALLIANCE LATER ON IN THE DAY,
04:33WHEN THIS MEETING WAS ALL SAID
04:35AN DONE.
04:35SO, THAT IS THE VISUAL THAT WE
04:36HAVE HERE.
04:37AND THEN THEY GO AND MEET BEHIND
04:39CLOSED DOORS FOR ABOUT 3 1/2
04:40HOURS.
04:41AND VLADIMIR PUTIN COMS OUT,
04:43BIANNA, AND SAYS, WE'VE MADE
04:44PROGRESS ON ECONOMIC, TRADE,
04:48PEOPLE TO PEOPLE ISSUES, BUT WE
04:49ALSO HAVE MADE PROGRESS IN THE
04:53SPHERE OF MUTUAL DEFENSE.
04:55SAYING THAT THERE IS A PROVISION
04:58OF MUTUAL ASSISTANCE IN THE
04:58EVENT OF AGGRESSION.
05:01SO, WE'RE ALL STANDING HERE AS
05:03OBSERVERS AND PEOPLE IN
05:05DIPLOMATIC QUARTERS SAYING,
05:07OKAY, WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT
05:08MEAN?
05:09MUTUAL ASSISTANCE IN MOMENTS OF
05:10AGGRESSION?
05:11AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE A 1961
05:13TREATY, NO LONGER IN EFFECT,
05:15CLEARLY, BETWEEN THE USSR AND
05:16NORTH KOREA, SIGNED BY KIM
05:20IL-SUNG AND KHRUSHCHEV, JULY 1st
05:23OF 1961, SAYING THAT IF EITHER
05:25COUNTRY WAS TO COME UNDER
05:26ATTACK, THAT BOTH WOULD HAVE
05:30IMMEDIATE MILITARY ASSISTANCE.
05:32THE LANGUAGE HERE DOES NOT SEEM
05:34TO BE AS STRONG, BUT WE DON'T
05:36HAVE THE FULL TEXT OF THIS
05:40AGREEMENT, AND PERHAPS, BIANNA,
05:41THAT IS THE POINT.
05:42TO BE INCREDIBLY VAGUE ABOUT
05:44THIS, TO SHAKE THINGS UP,
05:47CREATING, YOU KNOW, A PATH TO
05:48THIS NEW WORLD ORDER THAT RUSSIA
05:51WANTS TO SHAPE, TO COUNTER THE
05:54EXISTING RULES-BASED, LAWS-BASED
05:57ORDER THEIR THE UNITED STATES
05:57AND THE WEST ARE THE VANGUARDS
05:59OF.
05:59SO, THAT'S WHERE WE FIND
06:01WE'RE GOING TO WATCH THIS SPACE,
06:03BECAUSE THERE IS SUPPOSEDLY
06:06ANOTHER MEETING, SUMMIT OF SOME
06:07SORT, IN A SIMILAR VEIN,
06:09HAPPENING IN MOSCOW, IN THE NOT
06:11TOO DISTANT FUTURE, BUT YOU
06:12KNOW, THE RAMIFICATIONS, THE
06:14IMPLICATIONS HERE ARE, WILL WE
06:17START TO SEE MILITARY DRILLS?
06:21MILITARY COOPERATION, AS YOU
06:22MENTIONED, IN THE INTRODUCTION
06:23TO THIS SEGMENT, BETWEEN RUSSIA
06:25AND NORTH KOREA, PERHAPS DRILLS
06:28NEAR SOME OF THESE DISPUTED
06:30ISLANDS ON THE BORDER OF NORTH
06:32AND SOUTH KOREA?
06:33SO, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST
06:35CHAPTER OF THIS NEW CLOSER
06:36RELATIONSHIP, BIANNA.
06:37>> AND HOW IS THIS ALL BEING
06:39CONSUMED IN SOUTH KOREA, MIKE,
06:40WHERE WE'VE SEEN AN INGLEES
06:43PROVOCATIONS VIA BALLOONS
06:44BETWEEN THESE TWO SIDES, SOUTH
06:46KOREA HAD BEEN SENDING BALLOONS
06:47INTO THE NORTH WITH ANTI-NORTH
06:52KOREA LEAFLETS AND IN RESPONSE,
06:54WE SAW NORTH KOREA OVER THE PAST
06:56FEW WEEKS SENDING GARBAGE-FILLED
06:59BALLOONS, ABOUT 1,000 OF THEM,
06:59TO THE SOUTH.
07:03>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT PEOPLE
07:04ARE OVER THE BALLOONS, YOU KNOW,
07:06DON'T EVEN GET WE STARTED ON
07:07THAT SUBJECT, BUT I THINK WHEN
07:09WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
07:11DIPLOMACY, AND RUSSIA ENTERING
07:12THE CHAT OF THIS CONVERSATION,
07:14IT'S BEING MET WITH DEEP
07:16CONCERN, THAT IS THE EXACT
07:18VERBIAGE THAT SOUTH KOREAN
07:19SECURITY OFFICIALS ARE LENDING
07:21TO THIS TOPIC OF CONVERSATION,
07:23WHEN THEY WERE MEETING WITH
07:24THEIR CHINESE COUNTERPARTS
07:26YESTERDAY TO DISCUSS THEIR
07:28COLLECTIVE SECURITY CONCERNS.
07:31EFFECTS BOTH CHINA AND SOUTH
07:33KOREA.
07:33SO, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, WE
07:35HAVE PRESIDENT YOON SUCK YOOL,
07:39WHO WAS ASKED MAY 9th, HOW HE
07:41WOULD FEEL IN VLADIMIR PUTIN
07:42VISITED PYONGYANG, AND HAD THIS
07:46BROMANCE MOMENT WITH NORTH
07:47KOREA'S LEADER, AND HE WAS VERY
07:48CAREFUL.
07:49HE SAID THAT SOUTH KOREA
07:50ACTUALLY, IN THE RELATIVE SCHEME
07:51OF THINGS, HAS PRETTY GOOD
07:53RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA, AND
07:56RUSSIA, IN FACT, SAYS THAT, OF
07:56ALL THE NOT SO FRIENDLY NATIONS,
08:00SOUTH KOREA IS ONE OF THE BEST.
08:02SOUTH KOREA, NOTABLY, IS NOT
08:04SENDING LETHAL MUNITIONS TO
08:07UKRAINE, VLADIMIR PUTIN WENT OUT
08:08OF HIS WAY LAST WEEK TO SAY --
08:11MAKE IT KNOWN THAT HE
08:13APPRECIATES SOUTH KOREA NOT
08:14SENDING THOSE LETHAL MUNITIONS.
08:16SO LONG STORY LONG, THE
08:18PRESIDENT HERE IN SOUTH KOREA IS
08:19TRYING TO WALK A FINE LINE.
08:21HE'S SAYING A LOT OF THESE
08:22RUSSIAN MOVES ARE MAKING HIM
08:24UNCOMFORTABLE.
08:25THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO WORK
08:25WITH RUSSIA IN AREAS WHERE THEY
08:27CAN COOPERATE, SO, A LOT OF DEEP
08:28CONCERN, A LOT OF TIGHT ROPE
08:32WALKING.
08:33WE'RE WAITING FOR THE DUST TO
08:34SETTLE FOR PERHAPS SOME MORE
08:37CLARIFY ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS
08:38IS A NEW AUTOCRATIC VERSION OF
08:42NATO ARTICLE V, WE'RE GOING TO
08:44HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE HOW THIS IS
08:47RECEIVED.
08:48>> MIKE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING
08:51US, AND LETTING US KNOW WE ARE
08:53OVER BALLOONGATE THERE.
08:55>>> LET'S BRING IN SUE MI TERRY,
08:59SHE WORKED FOR THE CIA AND THEN
09:01FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY
09:03COUNCIL.
09:03AND SHE'S NOW A SENIOR FELLOW
09:04FOR KOREA STUDIES AT THE COUNCIL
09:11FOR FOREIGN RELATIONS.
09:13SUE MI TERRY, THANK YOU FOR
09:15JOINING US.
09:15IT'S BEEN 24 YEARS SINCE
09:16VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS VISITED THE
09:19HERMIT STATE, AND, YET, WE HAVE
09:21NO READOUT OF WHAT THIS MUTUAL
09:24DEFENSE PLEDGE REALLY ENTAILS,
09:25THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL PAST IT
09:28IS RATIONS OF A SIMILAR TYPE OF
09:30PLEDGE, THE MOST RECENT IN 2000,
09:32AND THAT ONE, THOUGH, THE ONLY
09:35CLAUSE IS THAT THEY WOULD BE
09:36CALLING EACH OTHER AND
09:38CONTACTING EACH OTHER IN CERTAIN
09:38EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.
09:43TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU MAKE OF WHAT
09:45WE SAW SIGNED TODAY.
09:45>> I THINK THIS NEW TREATY IS
09:49SIGNIFICANT.
09:50PUTIN VISITING NORTH KOREA IS
09:50SIGNIFICANT.
09:53THIS BURGEONING MILITARY
09:53ALLIANCE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND
09:55NORTH KOREA IS SIGNIFICANT.
09:58YOU KNOW, THIS SHOWS THAT PUTIN
09:59IS VERY DESPERATE, AND HE HAS
10:03NOW ABANDONED ALL HOPES, OR ANY
10:04KIND OF, YOU KNOW, NO MORE
10:11JOINING THE WEST, AND WANTS TO
10:12GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO MAKE SURE
10:14THE U.S.-LED INTERNATIONAL ORDER
10:14COLLAPSES.
10:17IT'S A VERY CONCERNING
10:19DEVELOPMENT.
10:19WE'VE HAD NORTH KOREANS SENDING
10:23MUNITIONS, ARTILLERY SHELLS, AND
10:24OTHER MILITARY EQUIPMENT TO --
10:28FOR RUSSIA'S WAR EFFORT IN
10:30UKRAINE.
10:30WE HAVE SOME 10,000 CONTAINERS
10:31OF, YOU KNOW, EQUIPMENT THAT THE
10:34NORTH KOREANS HAVE SENT TO
10:36RUSSIA.
10:36BUT THE KEY QUESTION ALWAYS WAS,
10:39HOW MUCH IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH
10:42WILLING IS PUTIN, IN TERMS OF
10:45HELPING NORTH KOREA, WHAT WAS HE
10:47GOING TO DO?
10:48WAS HE GOING TO HELP NORTH KOREA
10:49WITH MILITARY-SENSITIVE
10:51TECHNOLOGIES THAT'S GOING TO
10:53HELP NORTH KOREA'S WMD PROGRAM?
10:54AND NOW WITH THIS SECURITY
10:58CLAUSE, IT'S NOW VERY CONCERNING
11:00THAT THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS NO
11:00LONGER JUST MARRIAGE OF, YOU
11:05KNOW, CONVENIENCE FOR A LITTLE
11:06BIT, WHERE PUTIN IS JUST RELYING
11:07ON SOME EQUIPMENT COMING TO
11:11UKRAINE.
11:11IT -- NOW THERE ARE BIGGER
11:13CONCERNS IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH
11:15RUSSIA CAN HELP NORTH KOREA ON
11:19NORTH KOREA'S WMD PROGRAM.
11:20>> IT DOES APPEAR THAT HE'S
11:23CROSSED THE RUBICON IN TRYING TO
11:27REHABILITATE HIMSELF, EVER, WHEN
11:28THE WAR WITH UKRAINE DOES END,
11:30GIVEN THIS NEW ALLIANCE WITH
11:32NORTH KOREA.
11:32AS YOU MENTIONED, 10,000
11:34CONTAINERS OF MUNITIONS HAVE
11:36BEEN TRANSFERRED ALREADY.
11:38AS YOU NOTE, THE REAL CONCERN
11:39HERE IS, YES, THAT IS A
11:41SHORT-TERM BENEFIT FOR VLADIMIR
11:43PUTIN, NOW ON THE BATTLEFIELD,
11:44BUT LONGER-TERM, DO YOU THINK,
11:46AT THIS POINT, AT THIS STAGE,
11:47VLADIMIR PUTIN IS WILLING TO
11:51TRANSFER TECHNOLOGICAL INSIGHT
11:53AND KNOW-HOW TO NORTH KOREA?
11:55NORTH KOREA RIGHT NOW IS IN THE
11:56PROCESS OF DEVELOPING HYPER
11:59SONIC MISSILES, AS WELL, THAT'S
12:01SOMETHING THAT RUSSIA HAS
12:02ALREADY BOASTED OF ACHIEVING
12:05BEFORE.
12:05IS THIS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE
12:06CONCERNING FOR WASHINGTON?
12:09>> I THINK WASHINGTON -- THE
12:10BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS VERY
12:13CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, AS THE
12:15SOUTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT.
12:19YOU KNOW, THERE ARE QUESTIONS
12:20ABOUT HOW MUCH, REALLY, WHAT
12:23PUTIN WAS WILLING TO DO, AND
12:24THERE'S SOME ARGUMENTS AGAINST
12:25IT, RIGHT?
12:27THE MUNITIONS, THE ARTILLERY
12:28SHELLS THAT NORTH KOREA IS
12:29PROVIDING RUSSIA ARE
12:33ARCHAIC, THEY ARE NOT THE MOST
12:35SOPHISTICATED KIND OF SHELLS,
12:36SO, IS PUTIN REALLY WILLING TO
12:38GO AS FAR AS PROVIDING MILITARY
12:42TECHNOLOGY, SEND TECHNOLOGY TO
12:43NORTH KOREA IN RETURN FOR THIS,
12:45BUT IT IS INCREASINGLY LOOKS
12:47LIKE HE'S DESPERATE.
12:48AND SO, WE CANNOT RULE IT OUT.
12:49AND IF YOU REMEMBER, IF YOU
12:51RECALL, AFTER KIM JONG-UN
12:54VISITED RUSSIA, MET WITH PUTIN
12:55IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR, ONLY
12:58TWO MONTHS LATER, NORTH KOREA
13:01SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHED A
13:02SATELLITE WHEN NORTH KOREA
13:03FAILED TO DO SO THE PREVIOUS TWO
13:05TIMES IN THE PAST YEAR.
13:08SO, EVEN IF RUSSIANS DID NOT
13:10DIRECTLY HELP WITH TECHNOLOGY,
13:11THEY WERE CERTAINLY INVOLVED IN
13:13TERMS OF GIVING GUIDANCE AND
13:15ADVICE AND SHARING THEIR
13:16KNOW-HOW.
13:17SO, THIS IS A DEFINITELY A
13:19CONCERN.
13:19I THINK IT WAS INTENTIONAL THAT
13:21THE RUSSIANS AND NORTH KOREANS
13:23HAVE NOT EXPLICITLY STATED WHAT
13:27KIND OF HELP AND AID THAT
13:28THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, OR
13:30TRANSFER OF TECHNOLOGY, BUT
13:32PUTIN HIMSELF SAID, YOU KNOW,
13:33THEY WILL SHARE MILITARY
13:35TECHNOLOGY.
13:36I THINK HE'S -- THAT WAS HIS
13:36PHRASE.
13:39THE QUESTION IS, HOW SENSITIVE,
13:39WHAT KIND OF SENSITIVE
13:40TECHNOLOGY, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY
13:42A CONCERN, AND I'M SURE THE
13:46BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS, YOU
13:47KNOW, THIS IS ONE OF THE TOP
13:49CONCERNS RIGHT NOW.
13:50>> YEAH, AND PUTIN'S AEROSPACE
13:52CHIEF ACCOMPANIED HIM ON THIS
13:54VISIT, AS DID HIS ENERGY
13:56MINISTER, AS WELL.
13:56I'M CURIOUS, SUE MI, WHAT DOES
14:00CHINA FEEL ABOUT THIS VISIT?
14:03HOW CLOSELY IS BEIJING WATCHING?
14:05BECAUSE THERE WASN'T -- THERE
14:06WAS A TIME NOT SO LONG AGO WHERE
14:08NOT ONLY CHINA, BUT RUSSIA, TOO,
14:10WAS WORKING WITH THE UNITED
14:11STATES, HOPING TO CONTAIN NORTH
14:14KOREA TO SOME DEGREE IN THEIR
14:18NUCLEAR PROGRAM.
14:21HOW IS CHINA WATCHING ALL OF
14:23THIS, INTERPRETING IT?
14:24>> CHINA IS WATCHING THIS VERY
14:28WARILY.
14:29THEY HAVE -- THEY'RE VERY
14:29CONFLICTED ABOUT THIS.
14:31THERE'S ALSO LOOSE ALIGNMENT
14:33BETWEEN CHINA, RUSSIA, NORTH
14:35KOREA, AND EVEN IRAN, BUT FROM
14:38CHINA'S PERSPECTIVE, ONLY ONE
14:40HAND, IT'S OKAY FOR NORTH KOREA
14:42TO GET SOME ECONOMIC AID AND SO
14:43ON FROM RUSSIA, BECAUSE CHINA IS
14:45LITERALLY THE ONLY REMAINING
14:50PATRON, 90% OF NORTH KOREA'S
14:52TRADE IS WITH CHINA, SO, IT
14:54COULD USE, YOU KNOW, RUSSIA
14:55COULD HELP NORTH KOREA STABILIZE
14:57NORTH KOREA AND HELP BRING IT UP
15:00ECONOMICALLY AND DEFINITELY
15:02CHINA DOES NOT INSTABILITY OF
15:03THE KOREAN PENINSULA OR COLLAPSE
15:06OF THE KIM REGIME.
15:07BUT CHINA IS DEFINITELY
15:07CONCERNED ABOUT THIS -- THIS
15:09BURGEONING MILITARY ALLIANCE
15:11BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA,
15:13AND IT'S NOT IN CHINA'S INTEREST
15:15FOR NORTH KOREA TO REALLY
15:17ADVANCE THEIR WMD CAPABILITY AND
15:19PERFECT THEIR WEAPONS, BECAUSE
15:21LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE
15:23REGION.
15:23RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE SOUTH KOREA,
15:25JAPAN, UNITED STATES,
15:26STRENGTHENING THEIR TRI-LITERAL
15:28RELATIONSHIP, RIGHT?
15:29SOUTH KOREA AND JAPAN HAD ALWAYS
15:32HISTORICALLY HAD DIFFICULT AND
15:33TROUBLED RELATIONSHIP, BUT RIGHT
15:34NOW, THEY'RE WORKING VERY
15:35CLOSELY TOGETHER.
15:36THE YOON SUK-YEOL
15:38ADMINISTRATION, THE KISHIDA
15:39ADMINISTRATION, AND THE BIDEN
15:40ADMINISTRATION, AND FROM CHINA'S
15:41PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S ALSO NOT A
15:43GOOD DEVELOPMENT.
15:43SO, I THINK THERE'S -- IT'S VERY
15:46COMPLICATED MIXED PICTURE.
15:48CHINA, NORTH KOREA RELATIONSHIP
15:49ITSELF IS COMPLICATED.
15:51EVEN THOUGH CHINA IS NORTH
15:53KOREA'S MAIN ALLY AND PATRON,
15:55IT'S -- IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S A
15:56LOVE AFFAIR THERE, EITHER.
15:57THERE IS A LOT OF SUSPICION AND
15:59MUTUAL DISTRUST.
16:00SO, I THINK IT'S VERY
16:02COMPLICATED PICTURE FOR CHINA
16:03AND THEY ARE WATCHING IT VERY,
16:04VERY CLOSELY.
16:05>> AS YOU NOTED, SEOUL IS
16:06WATCHING THIS CLOSELY, AS WELL.
16:08JUST LAST YEAR THAT A NEW
16:11NUCLEAR DETERRENCE AGREEMENT WAS
16:12SIGNED BETWEEN SEOUL AND THE
16:13BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.
16:17SOUTH KOREA, NOT FOR A LACK OF
16:18TECHNOLOGY, BUT HAS NOT PURSUED
16:21NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM.
16:23ARE THEY GOING TO BE THINKING
16:23TWICE ABOUT THAT AND QUESTIONING
16:28REAL SECURITY PROMISES FROM THE
16:30UNITED STATES IF WE DO SEE
16:32FURTHER DEVELOPMENT AND
16:34ALIGNMENT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND
16:36NORTH KOREA ON THIS FRONT?
16:39>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
16:40THERE'S ALREADY BEEN A TALK,
16:44INCREASING TALK, WHETHER SOUTH
16:45KOREA KNEE TO DEVELOP THEIR
16:47NUCLEAR WEAPONS, TOO, OR BRING
16:50TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO
16:51SOUTH KOREA.
16:52THERE ARE CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE
16:53VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT,
16:54BECAUSE NORTH KOREA'S WMD THREAT
16:57HAS BEEN GROWING IN THE PAST FEW
16:58YEARS.
16:59EVER SINCE THE COLLAPSE OF THE
17:00HANOI SUMMIT, NORTH KOREA HAS
17:04NOT BEEN INTERESTED IN RETURNING
17:05TO DIALOGUE, AND THEY'VE BOON
17:07MODERNIZING THEIR MISSILE
17:08CAPABILITY AND SO ON.
17:08SO, NOW, YOU ADD THIS
17:11DEVELOPMENT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND
17:12NORTH KOREA, AND NOW LET'S ADD
17:14ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT IN NOVEMBER
17:15THIS YEAR, THERE'S A
17:16PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN THE
17:17UNITED STATES.
17:19AND IF WE HAVE A DIFFERENT
17:22OPINION, SOUTH KOREANS ARE VERY
17:24CONCERNED.
17:25YOU HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP TALKING
17:27ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE U.S.
17:30FORCES IN SOUTH KOREA, NEED TO
17:31REDUCE OUR TROOP PRESENCE IN
17:32SOUTH KOREA, IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE
17:34TO KEEP THEM THERE.
17:35HE MADE OVER 120 TIMES SINCE HIS
17:381990 "PLAYBOY" INTERVIEW WHEN HE
17:42TALKED ABOUT POTENTIALLY
17:43REDUCING TROOPS, OUR TROOP
17:45PRESENCE IN SOUTH KOREA.
17:46SO, I THINK SOUTH KOREANS ARE
17:48VERY NERVOUS FOR A WHOLE HOST OF
17:50REASONS AND IT HAS TO BE IN THE
17:51BACK OF THEIR MIND, EVEN THOUGH
17:52THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THEY SAY FOR
17:54NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO
17:56PURSUE THEIR OWN NUCLEAR WEAPONS
17:58CAPABILITY, THIS IS SOMETHING
17:59THAT HAS TO BE ON THE TABLE FOR
18:00THE SOUTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT.
18:01>> THIS IS A COMMON THING WE
18:03HEAR NOW, OBVIOUSLY, IN ASIA, WE
18:05FOCUS A LOT ABOUT THIS SAME
18:07CONCERN ABOUT TRYING TO
18:08TRUMP-PROOF U.S. POLICY WITH
18:11REGARDS TO ALLIANCES IN NATO,
18:15SPECIFICALLY, AS IT RELATES TO
18:16UKRAINE, AS WELL.
18:17YOU BROUGHT UP DONALD TRUMP.
18:18I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FOR YOU
18:21FROM HIS NATIONAL SECURITY
18:22ADVISER THAT SPOKE WITH
18:23CHRISTIANE YESTERDAY, WHO WAS
18:24REALLY PROMOTING THE STRENGTH
18:26THAT TRUMP BROUGHT TO THIS
18:29ISSUE, IN HIS VIEW, AND SITTING
18:30DOWN WITH KIM JONG-UN, VIEWING
18:34THAT AS A POSITIVE.
18:36HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.
18:38>> WE HAD SOME CORDIAL DIPLOMACY
18:40WITH THEM.
18:41AND KEEP IN MIND, THEY PROMISED
18:42TO DENUCLEARIZE.
18:43THEY PROMISED TO END THEIR
18:44NUCLEAR PROGRAM ON THE
18:48PENINSULA.
18:49PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD TO WALK AWAY
18:50WITH THE HANOI SUMMIT, WHEN KIM
18:53JONG-UN TRIED TO GO BACK ON THAT
18:54DEAL, SO, WE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH
18:56AFTER THAT, BUT KEEP IN MIND,
18:57THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR TESTING
18:59DURING THE ENTIRE TRUMP
19:00ADMINISTRATION, BECAUSE WE
19:01SHOWED STRENGTH, COUPLED WITH
19:03SOME TOUGH DIPLOMACY.
19:05>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HIS
19:06COMMENTS?
19:08>> I'LL SAY, THE TRUMP
19:09ADMINISTRATION SHOWED STRENGTH
19:11IN 2017 WHEN HE WAS PURSUING
19:14MAXIMUM PRESSURE POLICY AND WE
19:16ACTUALLY GOT CHINA AND RUSSIA TO
19:18IMPLEMENT SANCTIONS IN 2017, BUT
19:19NORTH KOREA NEVER AGREED TO
19:23DENUCLEARIZE.
19:23THEY TALKED ABOUT THE SINGAPORE
19:25SUMMIT, THIS ASPIRATIONAL
19:27STATEMENT, WHERE NORTH KOREA
19:28SAID THEY WOULD WORK TOWARDS
19:31DENUCLEARIZATION OF THE KOREAN
19:34PENINSULA.
19:34THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT SOUTH
19:36KOREA, TOO.
19:37IN ANY CASE, THE WHOLE THING
19:39FELL APART.
19:39THEY WERE WILDLY
19:43MISUNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER WHEN
19:45THEY SHOWED UP AT THE HANOI
19:46SUMMIT.
19:46THAT WHOLE THING FELL APAERT
19:47THERE WAS NO DEAL TO BE HAD.
19:49AND SINCE THEN, NORTH KOREA HAS
19:51BEEN JUST ADVANCING THEIR
19:52PROGRAM.
19:53AND NOW, 2024 IS NOT 2017, WHERE
19:56HE PURSUED MAXIMUM PRESSURE
19:58POLICY.
19:58IT'S NOT EVEN 2018 WITH SOME
20:02DIPLOMACY.
20:02IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT ERA,
20:04DIFFERENT PERIOD.
20:05EXTERNAL ENVIRONMENT NOW, THIS
20:06WHOLE GEOPOLITICAL ENVIRONMENT
20:08IS FAVORABLE FOR NORTH KOREA,
20:10BECAUSE CHINA, RUSSIA, YOU KNOW,
20:12THEY'RE NOT HELPING UNITED
20:13STATES, CERTAINLY, CURB NORTH
20:16KOREA'S WMD PROGRAM.
20:17AND RUSSIA, BY THE WAY, JUST
20:18EVEN RECENTLY, EVEN CHINA AND
20:20RUSSIA, THEY COULDN'T EVEN
20:21CONDEMN INTERCONTINENTAL
20:24BALLISTIC MISSILE LAUNCH AT THE
20:26UNITED NATIONS.
20:26SO, WE HAVE A COMPLETE IMPASSE
20:29AT THE UNITED NATIONS, AS WELL.
20:31SO, THIS GEOPOLITICAL
20:32ENVIRONMENT IS VERY CONCERNING
20:33FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL OF US,
20:34OBVIOUSLY.
20:36>> SUE MI TERRY, THANK YOU SO
20:37MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.
20:39REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR
20:39EXPERTISE.
20:40>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
20:43>>> TURNING NOW TO THE UNITED
20:44STATES, WHERE PEOPLE ARE
20:46CELEBRATING JUNETEENTH.
20:47A DAY MARKING THE END OF
20:48SLAVERY.
20:49AND WHILE IT'S ULTIMATELY A TIME
20:50OF CELEBRATION, IT ALSO GIVES US
20:53A CHANCE TO REFLECT ON THE
20:55ONGOING FIGHT FOR RACIAL JUSTICE
20:57AND EQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY.
20:59CHRISTIANE SAT DOWN WITH
21:00ACCLAIMED CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER
21:02AND ACTIVIST BRYANT STEVENSON.
21:07HE JOINED CHRISTIANE FROM
21:09MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA.
21:11>> BRYANT, WELCOME BACK TO THE
21:13PROGRAM.
21:13>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
21:14>> SO, ON THIS DAY, I JUST WANT
21:17TO ASK YOU THE SIGNIFICANCE OF
21:18WHERE YOU ARE, BECAUSE YOU'VE
21:18CREATED A LOT OF IMPORTANT
21:20SPACE, PUBLIC MEMORIAL.
21:23WHERE ARE YOU NOW?
21:25WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
21:26>> WELL, I'M IN MONTGOMERY,
21:27ALABAMA, AT THE ORIGINAL LEGACY
21:28MUSEUM, WHICH IS A SPACE WE
21:31CREATED IN 2018 TO HONOR AND
21:35ACKNOWLEDGE THE LEGACY OF
21:37SLAVERY.
21:38THIS SPACE I'M IN IS ON THE SITE
21:42OF A WAREHOUSE WHERE ENSLAVED
21:43PEOPLE WERE HELD BEFORE THEY
21:45WOULD BE TAKEN UP THE STREET AND
21:46SOLD IN AUCTIONS, AND I DO THINK
21:50IT'S BEEN GREAT TO HAVE
21:51JUNETEENTH HELP US BEGIN TO
21:55RECON WITH THIS LONG HISTORY
21:57THAT HAS SO PROFOUNDLY SHAPED
22:00AMERICA.
22:01I SEE JUNETEENTH AS SITTING
22:02BETWEEN TWO OTHER AMERICANS
22:03HOLIDAYS, MEMORIAL DAY AND
22:06INDEPENDENCE DAY, AND FOR ME,
22:07JUNETEENTH IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
22:09REMEMBER AND HONOR THE 10
22:14MILLION BLACK PEOPLE WHO WERE
22:15ENSLAVED IN THIS COUNTRY,
22:17BETWEEN 1619 AND 1865, AND TO
22:19ALSO CELEBRATE THE EMANCIPATION
22:24OF 4 MILLION PEOPLE WHO FINALLY
22:25WON FREEDOM FOLLOWING THE CIVIL
22:28WAR.
22:28THERE'S SO MUCH WE HAVE TO
22:31RECKON WITH ABOUT THIS HISTORY,
22:32THAT WE REALLY HAVEN'T DONE IN
22:33THE UNITED STATES, AND SO, I'M
22:35THRILLED TO HAVE SPACES LIKE
22:36THIS TO HELP BEGIN THAT PROCESS.
22:37>> AND JUST -- JUST TELL US, AND
22:39LAY IT OUT FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT
22:41NOT KNOW, PARTICULARLY FOR OUR
22:43INTERNATIONAL AUDIENCE, WHAT IS
22:44THE SIGNIFICANCE OF JUNETEENTH,
22:45AND THE FACT THAT ENSLAVED
22:48PEOPLE WERE STILL ENSLAVED, EVEN
22:49AFTER, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE --
22:53THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR IN
22:54TEXAS.
22:55>> SURE.
22:57SO, IN 1863, ABRAHAM LINCOLN
23:02ANNOUNCED THE EMANCIPATION PROCK
23:07LA MAKE, THAT FREED SLAVES, BUT
23:10ONLY IN THE REBELLING STATES OF
23:12THE CONFEDERACY.
23:13AND OF COURSE, BECAUSE THESE
23:14STATES WERE AT WAR WITH THE
23:15UNITED STATES, MOST OF THE 4
23:17MILLION PEOPLE WHO WERE IMPACTED
23:19BY THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION
23:21DIDN'T ACTUALLY GET FREE.
23:22THEY WERE BEHIND ENEMY LINES.
23:24THEY WERE STILL CAPTIVE BY THOSE
23:26TRYING TO PRESERVE SLAVERY.
23:28AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, THE
23:33EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION SHOULD
23:34HAVE TAKEN EFFECT ALL OVER THE
23:36COUNTRY.
23:36THE PASSAGE OF THE 13th
23:38AMENDMENT FURTHER CONFINED THAT,
23:40BUT THERE WERE STILL PLACES IN
23:41THIS COUNTRY WHERE ENSLAVERS
23:43REFUSED TO TELL ENSLAVED PEOPLE
23:46THAT THEY WERE FREE.
23:48WHEN FEDERAL TROOPS GOT TO
23:50TEXAS, THE WORD FINALLY GOT OUT
23:53AND PEOPLE CELEBRATED THEIR
23:54FREEDOM, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS
23:55MONTHS AFTER THE WAR HAD ENDED,
23:58AND ALMOST TWO YEARS AFTER THE
24:02EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION HAD
24:05BEEN DECLARED.
24:06THE TERM JUNETEENTH HAS BECOME A
24:09WAY TO CELEBRATE THAT DELAYED
24:11ANNOUNCEMENT OF FREEDOM.
24:12AND I THINK IN THE AFRICAN
24:13AMERICAN COMMUNITY, IT HAS
24:14BECOME A DAY OF REMEMBRANCE FOR
24:17EMANCIPATION, NOT JUST FOR THOSE
24:18THAT GOT THE WORD LATE IN TEXAS,
24:19BUT FOR ALL OF THE NEARLY 4
24:20MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN HELD
24:24IN BONDAGE, WHO HAD SUFFERED IN
24:26THESE FORCED LABOR CAMPS, WHO
24:28HAD BEEN CONSTRAINED AND ABUSED
24:29BY SLAVERY, TO NOW FINALLY HAVE
24:31AN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE TOWARD
24:33SOMETHING THAT COULD BE
24:36IDENTIFIED AS FREEDOM.
24:37>> AND, OF COURSE, IT WAS ONLY
24:38AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD
24:41THAT THE GOVERNMENT THEN FINALLY
24:44CREATED JUNETEENTH AS A FEDERAL
24:46HOLIDAY, RIGHT?
24:47BUT I WANT TO BRING BACK, REFER
24:50BACK TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
24:51YOU KNOW, YOU SEE IT IN THE
24:52PANTHEON OF GREAT AMERICAN
24:54NATIONAL HOLIDAYS.
24:55CAN I JUST READ TO YOU WHAT
25:01JELANI COBB WROTE IN "THE NEW
25:02YORKER," HE'S THE DEAN OF THE
25:05COLUMBIA JOURNALISM SCHOOL.
25:05HE WROTE, "JUNETEENTH EXISTS AS
25:07A COUNTERPOINT TO THE FOURTH OF
25:10JULY.
25:10THE LATTER HERALDS THE ARRIVAL
25:12OF AMERICAN IDEALS, AND THE
25:14FORMER STRESSES JUST HOW HARD IT
25:15HAS BEEN TO LIVE UP TO THEM."
25:18WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
25:19IS HE RIGHT AND THEREFORE, IS
25:21JUNETEENTH SOMETHING TO
25:23CELEBRATE?
25:23OR STILL BE TROUBLED BY?
25:25>> I ACTUALLY THINK IT IS A TIME
25:26TO REFLECT ON THE TRAGIC AND
25:29PAINFUL HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN
25:30AMERICA.
25:33WE HAD 246 YEARS IN THIS COUNTRY
25:36WHERE PEOPLE WERE HELD IN
25:37BONDAGE.
25:37THEY WERE SUBJECTED TO
25:39UNBELIEVABLE ABUSE AND
25:43DEGRADATION.
25:43WE CREATED NARRATIVES ABOUT
25:45ENSLAVED BLACK PEOPLE, WHERE WE
25:46SAID THAT BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T AS
25:47GOOD AS WHITE PEOPLE.
25:47WE CREATED A NARRATIVE OF RACIAL
25:51HIERARCHY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT
25:52WAS DEFINED BY SLAVERY.
25:54SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES WAS
25:55A PERMANENT HEREDITARY
25:58CONDITION.
25:58AND THAT'S SOMETHING TO MOURN.
26:016 MILLION BLACK PEOPLE DIED
26:02ENSLAVED.
26:03THEY NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY
26:05TO BE FREE LIKE OTHER IMMIGRANTS
26:07THAT CAME TO THIS COUNTRY.
26:08THAT'S SOMETHING TO MOURN.
26:10THE ABUSE, THE SELLING OF HALF
26:12OF ALL ENSLAVED PEOPLE FROM
26:13THEIR FAMILIES, THE SEXUAL
26:14VIOLENCE, THE HUMILIATION, THE
26:19HORRIFIC PHYSICAL VIOLENCE, ALL
26:20OF THAT IS SOMETHING TO MOURN.
26:24BUT EMANCIPATION WAS SOMETHING
26:24TO CELEBRATE.
26:26THAT 4 MILLION PEOPLE
26:28PERSEVERED, DESPITE THE HARDSHIP
26:30OF SLIFRY.
26:31THAT 4 MILLION PEOPLE FOUND
26:32FAITH AND JOY IN THE MIDST OF SO
26:34MUCH AGONY IS AN INCREDIBLE
26:38LEGACY, AND THEN, THE MOST
26:39IMPORTANT THING IS THAT ENSLAVED
26:41PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY LEARNED
26:42TO LOVE IN THE MIDST OF SORROW.
26:45AND DESPITE THE HORRORS OF
26:48ENSLAVEMENT, CREATED GENERATIONS
26:49OF FAMILY AND KINSHIP.
26:52I'M THE DESCENDANT OF ENSLAVED
26:54PEOPLE.
26:54I WOULD NOT BE HERE IF MY
26:56GREAT-GRANDPARENTS HADN'T FOUND
26:57A WAY TO LOVE, DESPITE ALL OF
26:59THE HORRORS OF SLAVERY, AND
27:00CREATE A NEW GENERATION.
27:01AND WE ARE THE HEIRS OF THAT
27:05TRAUMA AND ABUSE, BUT WE ALSO
27:07HAVE THE HEIRS OF PEOPLE WHO
27:08LEARNED TO PERSEVERE.
27:10PEOPLE WHO WERE RESILIENT.
27:11PEOPLE WHO FOUND A WAY TO
27:13RESIST.
27:13PEOPLE WHO KNEW THEIR HUMANITY
27:14AND THEIR DIGNITY, DESPITE WHAT
27:15THE LAW SAID ABOUT THEM.
27:17AND THAT IS SOMETHING TO
27:18CELEBRATE.
27:20THE STRENGTH AND POWER OF
27:21ENSLAVED PEOPLE, I FEEL,
27:24EMPOWERS ME, ENERGIZES ME.
27:25AND I THINK BOTH OF THOSE
27:27REALITIES CAN BE CONTAINED
27:28WITHIN THIS HOLIDAY.
27:30THE GRIEF, THE MOURNING OF
27:31PEOPLE WHO WERE TREATED
27:33HORRIFICALLY, ABUSED AND DENIED
27:35FREEDOM.
27:35BUT ALSO THE POWER, THE CAPACITY
27:39OF PEOPLE TO LOVE, DESPITE ALL
27:40OF THOSE HURDLES.
27:41THAT'S SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.
27:42>> SO, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT
27:45ABOUT MORE HURDLES THAT SEEM TO
27:46BE, I MEAN, JUST RUSHING TO GET
27:47PUT UP.
27:49BY THE SUPREME COURT VOTES, BY,
27:51YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY UNDER THE
27:51TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
27:54SO, IF CONGRESS WON'T PASS
27:55VOTING RIGHTS LEGISLATION,
27:57SUPREME COURT WON'T UPHOLD
27:59CURRENT LAWS, OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S
28:01BEEN PROGRESS, BUT THERE SEEMS
28:02TO BE SO MUCH PUSH-BACK.
28:04>> NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
28:05WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF A
28:06REALLY IMPORTANT NARRATIVE
28:09STRUGGLE IN THE UNITED STATES,
28:11FOR WHAT IT MEANS TO ACTUALLY
28:13ACHIEVE FREEDOM.
28:13AND I DO THINK THE HISTORICAL
28:14CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT.
28:17AFTER EMANCIPATION, OUR CONGRESS
28:20PASSED THE 14th AMENDMENT, WHICH
28:21GUARANTEED EQUAL PROTECTION TO
28:25FORMERLY ENSLAVED PEOPLE.
28:26THEY PASSED THE 15th AMENDMENT
28:28WHICH GUARANTEED THE RIGHT TO
28:29VOTE.
28:29BUT THOSE RIGHTS WERE NOT
28:31ENFORCED, BECAUSE WE WERE MORE
28:32COMMITTED IN AMERICA TO
28:34MAINTAINING RACIAL HIERARCHY, TO
28:35MAINTAINING WHITE SUPREMACY,
28:37THAN ENFORCING THE RULE OF LAW.
28:38AND SO, WE'VE KNOWN FOR A VERY
28:40LONG TIME THAT LAW ALONE WILL
28:41NOT ACHIEVE THE KIND OF JUSTICE,
28:44THE KIND OF EQUALITY THAT WE
28:46SEEK IN THIS COUNTRY.
28:46IT TOOK 100 YEARS.
28:49BETWEEN THE LATE 1860s, UNTIL
28:51THAT HORRIFIC AND CHALLENGING,
28:53BUT TRIUMPHANT STRUGGLE IN THE
28:581960s TO CREATE A VOTING RIGHTS
29:00ACT, ANOTHER LAW DESIGNED TO
29:02ENFORCE THESE RIGHTS.
29:03BUT THE NARRATIVE OF MAINTAINING
29:05RACIAL HIERARCHY, IT WAS STILL
29:07WITH US.
29:08THOUGH WE PASSED THE CIVIL
29:09RIGHTS LAWS IN 1965 AND THE
29:11VOTING RIGHTS LAWS, THERE WERE A
29:13LOT OF PEOPLE THAT RESISTED AND
29:13REJECTED THE IDEA THAT BLACK
29:16PEOPLE SHOULD BE EQUAL TO WHITE
29:17PEOPLE.
29:18AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THE GREAT
29:19CHALLENGE WE FACE IN THIS
29:20COUNTRY IS A NARRATIVE
29:23CHALLENGE.
29:23YES, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE RULE OF
29:24LAW, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO PUSH
29:26BACK AGAINST THESE IDEAS WE HAVE
29:29INHERITED, THAT SOMEHOW BLACK
29:30PEOPLE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS WHITE
29:31PEOPLE.
29:31THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS
29:33CAPABLE, LESS WORTHY, LESS
29:36TRUSTWORTHY.
29:36AND THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL
29:37CHALLENGE THAT I BELIEVE WE HAVE
29:39TO APPROACH.
29:39WE NEVER REALLY HAD THE
29:42TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE THAT OTHER
29:43COUNTRIES THAT DEAL WITH
29:44HORRIFIC HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES
29:46HAVE HAD.
29:46IN SOUTH AFRICA, THERE WAS A
29:48PROCESS OF TRUTH AND
29:50RECONCILIATION AFTER APARTHEID
29:52COLLAPSED.
29:52THEY GAVE VOICE TO THE VICTIMS
29:53OF APARTHEID, TO SPEAK TO THEIR
29:56HARM AND INJURIES, AND THE
29:59PERPETRATORS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY
30:00TO GIVE VOICE TO THEIR WRONG
30:01DOING.
30:01IN BERLIN, IN GERMANY, YOU SEE A
30:02COUNTRY AND A CITY THAT ENGAGED
30:05IN TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE.
30:06NOW IN BERLIN, YOU CAN'T GO 200
30:08METERS WITHOUT SEEING MARKERS
30:09AND STONES PLACED NEXT TO THE
30:11HOMES OF PEOPLE THAT WERE KILLED
30:13DURING THE HOLOCAUST.
30:14THERE'S A LANDSCAPE THAT IS
30:15TRYING TO RECKON WITH THE
30:17HORRORS OF THAT.
30:17EVERY STUDENT IN GERMANY IS
30:19REQUIRED TO STUDY THE HOLOCAUST.
30:21YOU CAN'T GRADUATE WITHOUT THAT.
30:22BUT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES,
30:23WE HAVE STATES PASSING LAWS
30:24TRYING TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL,
30:28IMPERMISSIBLE, FOR PEOPLE TO
30:29STUDY THESE HISTORIES.
30:30AND THAT JUST SPEAKS TO THE
30:31CHALLENGE THAT WE FACE.
30:32AND SO, WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF
30:34IT, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO
30:36DO, WHICH IS WHY I AM PERSUADED
30:37THAT WE NEED AN ERA OF TRUTH AND
30:40JUSTICE, TRUTH AND REPAIR, TRUTH
30:41AND RESTORE RATION,
30:43TRUTH-TELLING ABOUT THIS
30:44HISTORY.
30:45>> AND ALSO, ON THE CAMPAIGN
30:46TRAIL, THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR.
30:48DONALD TRUMP IS DESPERATELY
30:50TRYING TO COURT THE BLACK VOTE,
30:53AND HE KEEPS SAYING THAT HE WAS
30:55AND HE WILL BE MUCH BETTER FOR
30:58AFRICAN AMERICANS THAN BIDEN.
31:00BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS GOT 92%
31:01OF THE BLACK VOTE NATIONALLY
31:04BACK IN 2020, BUT AS YOU KNOW,
31:07THESE FIGURES HAVE BEEN SLIPPING
31:08DRAMATICALLY.
31:10WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?
31:12TALKING ABOUT THE NARRATIVE.
31:13>> YEAH.
31:14WELL, I'M NOT SURE I EMBRACE
31:17THAT FRAMING, BECAUSE I THINK,
31:19YOU KNOW -- IF A CANDIDATE GETS
31:2392% OF THE BLACK VOTE, A WHOLE
31:26COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE FROM
31:26DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, I MEAN,
31:28YOU KNOW, THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS
31:30MUCH MORE DIVERSE THAN IT'S EVER
31:31BEEN IN THE HISTORY OF THIS
31:32COUNTRY.
31:33WE HAVE BLACK IMMIGRANTS FROM
31:35AFRICA, WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM THE
31:36WEST INDIES, WE HAVE PEOPLE IN
31:39DIFFERENT ECONOMIC SITUATIONS.
31:40SO, IF A CANDIDATE GETS 92% OF
31:41THAT VOTE, YOU'D HAVE TO SAY
31:45THAT CANDIDATE IS DOING VERY
31:46WELL WITH THAT COMMUNITY.
31:47I CAN'T THINK OF A WHITE
31:47CANDIDATE THAT COULD CLAIM THAT
31:50KIND OF SUCCESS WITH ANY OTHER
31:54COMMUNITY, ETHNIC COMMUNITY IN
31:55THIS COUNTRY.
31:57THERE IS SHIFTING, BECAUSE I
31:58THINK THE COMMUNITY IS SHIFTING.
31:59WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE
32:02AFRICAN AMERICAN WHO ARE
32:03AFFLUENT.
32:04BUT I'M STILL ACTUALLY PRETTY
32:04AMAZED THAT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN
32:09COMMUNITY STILL VOTES WITH
32:11LARGELY ONE VOICE.
32:13THERE IS AN ALIGNMENT WITH THE
32:14VALUES AND THE NORMS THAT
32:16EMPHASIZE EQUALITY AND FREEDOM
32:17AND OPPORTUNITY.
32:19THERE IS STILL A REALLY POWERFUL
32:21INSTINCT IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY
32:22IN THIS COUNTRY TO HELP THE
32:22POOR.
32:23TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE
32:25MARGINALIZED, TO RESPOND TO
32:25THE -- TO THE CHALLENGES THAT WE
32:28FACE WHEN WE THROW PEOPLE AWAY.
32:29AND I THINK THAT'S THE REALLY
32:33OVERWHELMING MARRIVE.
32:34THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT.
32:35I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT.
32:36AND I THINK WHAT ANY CANDIDATE
32:37HAS TO DO TO MAINTAIN SUPPORT,
32:41TO GET SUPPORT FROM THE AFRICAN
32:42AMERICAN COMMUNITY, AND, AGAIN,
32:44IT'S NOT A SINGLE PERSPECTIVE,
32:46IS TO REINFORCE THESE VALUES AND
32:47NORMS THAT WE TALK SO MUCH
32:48ABOUT.
32:49WE'RE STILL NOT FREE YET.
32:51THERE'S A PRESUMPTION OF GUILT
32:54THAT GETS ASSIGNED TO BLACK AND
32:55BROWN PEOPLE, AND IT DOESN'T
32:57MATTER HOW WEALTHY YOU ARE, HOW
32:58KIND YOU ARE, HOW TALENTED YOU
33:01ARE, YOU CAN GO TO PLACES WHERE
33:03YOU HAVE TO NAVIGATE
33:03DANGEROUSNESS AND GUILT.
33:04AND OUR POLITICAL AND ELECTED
33:06OFFICIALS NEED TO HELP US
33:09ERADICATE, ELIMINATE THAT
33:11BURDEN, BECAUSE IT'S UNFAIR.
33:12I'M A LAWYER, I'M A MIDDLE AGED
33:13BLACK MAN, I'VE GOT ALL OF THESE
33:15DEGREES, I'VE WON CASES AT THE
33:16SUPREME COURT, AND I STILL GO TO
33:17PLACES WHERE I'M VIEWED AS LESS
33:20THAN, WHERE I'M PRESUMED TO BE
33:22THE DEFENDANT, OR PRESUMED TO BE
33:25DANGEROUS, JUST BECAUSE OF THE
33:26WAY I APPEAR.
33:26AND THAT'S A HEAVIED BURDEN, I
33:28CAN TELL YOU, BECAUSE I'M
33:29GETTING OLDER, WHEN YOU'RE
33:31CONSTANT LIP NAVIGATING THESE
33:33PRESUMPTIONS OF DANGEROUSNESS
33:34AND GUILT, IT'S EXHAUSTING.
33:36AND WE WANT SOMETHING BETTER.
33:36AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT
33:38THERE IS SOMETHING THAT FEELS
33:39MORE LIKE FREEDOM, MORE LIKE
33:42EQUALITY, MORE LIKE JUSTICE, AND
33:43I THINK IT'S WAITING FOR US.
33:45AND SO, WE WANT CANDIDATES THAT
33:46ARE GOING TO HELP US ADVANCE
33:47THAT.
33:48AND TO BE HONEST, I HAVEN'T
33:49HEARD MUCH, FRANKLY, FROM --
33:53FROM DONALD TRUMP, AND MANY
33:55OTHERS IN THAT CAMP, THAT SPEAKS
33:56TO THAT HISTORY.
33:57SO, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN
33:59THE ELECTION, BUT I FRANKLY
34:00THINK WE'VE GOT A LOT OF
34:04CRITICAL ISSUES IN THIS COUNTRY,
34:06AND I DON'T SEE THE DYNAMIC
34:07AROUND WHO CHAMPIONS THOSE
34:11ISSUES SHIFTING VERY MUCH OVER
34:12THE NEXT SIX MONTHS.
34:14>> AND JUST A FINAL PERSONAL
34:16QUESTION, YOU MENTIONED YOU'RE A
34:18LAWYER.
34:18AND YOU'VE DONE SO MUCH IN THIS
34:21LEGAL FIELD.
34:22YOU'VE ALWAYS, SINCE 2018,
34:24STEPPED OUT INTO THE PUBLIC ART
34:26AND PUBLIC MEMORIAL SPACE.
34:28WHAT HAS INSPIRED YOU TO DO
34:30THAT?
34:30DO YOU THINK YOU NOW CAN
34:31ACCOMPLISH MORE, DOING THAT KIND
34:33OF THING, THAN, YOU KNOW, TRYING
34:36TO LITIGATE IN THE COURTS?
34:38>> YEAH, I DEFINITELY NOW
34:40BELIEVE THAT IT'S GOING TO
34:42REQUIRE BOTH.
34:43ACTIVITY IN THE LAW, I STILL
34:44BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW AND
34:46ADVANCING THE RULE OF LAW,
34:47CREATING RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE WHO
34:49HAVE BEEN DISFAVORED AND
34:52MARGINALIZED.
34:52I'M A PRODUCT OF BROWN VERSUS
34:53BOARD OF EDUCATION, THE SUPREME
34:55COURT DECISION THAT STRUCK DOWN
34:57SEGREGATION IN EDUCATION.
34:58BUT I HAVE BECOME WORRIED THAT
35:00WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO WIN
35:01BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION
35:02TODAY.
35:04BECAUSE THIS NARRATIVE HAS
35:04EMERGED THAT EQUALITY ISN'T --
35:07ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT.
35:10ELIMINATING RACIAL BIAS AND
35:11ADDRESSING THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY
35:12ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT.
35:13AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE
35:15ARTS AND TRUTH-TELLING, HAS
35:16BECOME SO IMPORTANT.
35:17THAT'S WHY WE'VE CREATED THESE
35:19LEGACY SITES, THE LEGACY MUSEUM,
35:21THE NATIONAL MEMORIAL FOR PEACE
35:23AND JUSTICE, WHICH DOCUMENTS THE
35:26LYNCHING OF THOUSANDS OF BLACK
35:27PEOPLE WHO WERE PULLED OUT OF
35:28THEIR HOMES AND TORTURED AND
35:30BEATEN AND KILLED.
35:31OUR NEW FREEDOM MONUMENT
35:33SCULPTURE PARK, WHICH TRIES TO
35:35ADDRESS THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY.
35:37THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO ME
35:39NOW, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOING
35:40TO TAKE THAT NARRATIVE WORK TO
35:42MOVE US FORWARD.
35:43WHEN YOU'RE ENSLAVED, YOU HAVE
35:44TO FOCUS ON FREEDOM.
35:45YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON
35:47EMANCIPATION.
35:48WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH
35:49LYNCHING, YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON
35:49SECURITY.
35:51WHEN YOU'RE DISENFRANCHISED AND
35:54EXCLUDED, YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON
35:55CIVIL RIGHTS.
35:56NOW IN THE 21st CENTURY, I THINK
35:58WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THIS
36:00NARRATIVE STRUGGLE, LIFTING UP
36:02THESE IDEAS OF EQUALITY AND
36:05FREEDOM AND MAKING THEM
36:05MEANINGFUL TO EVERYONE.
36:06PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS IDEA
36:08THAT THIS HIERARCHY AND
36:11STRATIFICATION HAS ANY PLACE IN
36:13A SOCIETY THAT CLAIMS TO BE THE
36:14LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.
36:15AND I'M HOPING THESE SITES CAN
36:17PLAY A CRITICAL ROLE IN THAT.
36:18AND, YOU KNOW, AS THE
36:20GREAT-GRANDSON OF PEOPLE THAT
36:21WERE ENSLAVED, MY
36:24GREAT-GRANDFATHER WAS ENSLAVED
36:25IN VIRGINIA.
36:26THERE WERE ANTI-LITERACY LAWS
36:28THAT PREVENTED HIM FROM LEARNING
36:29TO READ OR WRITE.
36:30HE LEARNED TO READ OR WRITE, AND
36:33WHEN EMANCIPATION CAME, HE READ
36:33THE NEWSPAPER TO PEOPLE WHO
36:36DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO READ.
36:37HE TAUGHT MY GRANDMOTHER, WHO
36:38WORKED AS A DOMESTIC HER WHOLE
36:40LIFE, TO VALUE READING AND
36:41EDUCATION, SHE GAVE THAT TO MY
36:43MOTHER, WE GREW UP POOR, IN A
36:46RACIALLY SEGREGATED COMMUNITY,
36:47BUT OUR MOM BOUGHT US BOOKS TO
36:50SEE A BIGGER WORLD.
36:50AND I'M THE HEIR OF A COMMUNITY
36:52OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN
36:54FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE, PUSHING
36:54PAST THESE THINGS, AND WHETHER
36:56THAT'S IN COURT, WITH THE LAW,
36:59OR IN THESE NARRATIVE SPACES, I
37:01THINK THE GOAL IS THE SAME.
37:02WHICH IS TO LET TRUTH AND
37:03JUSTICE REALLY FINALLY BE SEEN
37:06IN THIS COUNTRY.
37:08BECAUSE I THINK IT'S THE PATH TO
37:09LIBERATION, THE KIND OF SOCIETY
37:11MOST OF US WANT TO LIVE IN.
37:13>> BRYANT STEVENSON, THANK YOU
37:14SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US FOR
37:15JUNETEENTH.
37:16>> MY PLEASURE.
37:17>>> AND A LAST NOTE ON BRYANT
37:19STEVENSON'S FOCUS ON HISTORICAL
37:21NARRATIVE.
37:21THE EQUAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE'S
37:23LEGACY SITES PROJECT CONTINUES
37:24TO GROW.
37:25WITH THE OPENING OF THE FREEDOM
37:30MONUMENT SCULPTURE PARK OPENING
37:32IN MONTGOMERY THIS SPRING.
37:34>>> WE TURN NOW TO AFRICAN
37:36AMERICAN CULTURE THROUGH FOOD.
37:37BRYANT TERRY IS AN AWARD-WINNING
37:40VEGAN CHEF AND AUTHOR OF SIX
37:43BOOKS.
37:45IN HONOR OF JUNETEENTH, HE
37:47JOINED MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS
37:48THE EVOLUTION OF HIS ANCESTOR'S
37:51QUESTION SEEN THROUGH THE LENS
37:52OF MIGRATION, IDENTITY, AND
37:54RESILIENCE.
37:55>> THANKS, BIANNA.
37:56BRYANT TERRY, THANK YOU SO MUCH
37:57FOR JOINING US.
37:58>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING
37:59ME ON, MICHEL.
38:01GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
38:02>> GREAT TO SEE YOU.
38:04YOU ARE AN AWARD-WINNING CHEF,
38:06AUTHOR, COOKBOOK AUTHOR, YOU
38:07KNOW, ACTIVIST, AND ONE OF YOUR
38:09SIGNATURES IS TO KIND OF CONNECT
38:11FOOD, NOT JUST WITH HEALTH AND
38:13WITH ENJOYMENT, BUT WITH THE
38:15CULTURE.
38:16JUNETEENTH CELEBRATES THE END OF
38:18SLAVERY, AND MORE BROADLY, KIND
38:22OF AFRICAN AMERICAN RESILIENCE
38:23AND RESISTANCE.
38:24HOW DO YOU THINK FOOD FITS INTO
38:26THAT?
38:26>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT
38:27QUESTION.
38:28SO, AS YOU MENTIONED, WE KNOW
38:29THAT JUNETEENTH COMMEMORATES THE
38:32ENDING OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED
38:33STATES, AND IT HAS A SPECIFIC
38:34GEOGRAPHIC CONTEXT IN TEXAS, BUT
38:36IT'S MOVED BEYOND THERE, AND
38:38SINCE IT'S A NATIONAL HOLIDAY
38:40NOW, IT HAS EVOLVED INTO A DAY
38:43OF REFLECTION, CELEBRATION, AND
38:45EDUCATION ABOUT BLACK HISTORY
38:45AND CULTURE, AND, YOU KNOW,
38:46BECAUSE OF THE WORK THAT I DO
38:50AROUND FOOD AND FARMING ISSUES,
38:52AND BECAUSE I JUST LOVE TO EAT,
38:53I'M ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT
38:54DIFFERENT CULTURAL HOLIDAYS, OUR
38:57CULTURE HOLIDAYS, THROUGH THE
38:58LENS OF FOOD.
38:59AND WE KNOW THAT FOOD HAS ALWAYS
39:00PLAYED A CENTRAL ROLE IN
39:03COMMUNITY BUILDING AND SURVIVAL
39:04IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
39:05WE CAN GO BACK TO THE CIVIL
39:07RIGHTS MOVEMENT, WE THINK ABOUT,
39:08YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF THE
39:10RESTAURANTS AND HOME COOKS WHO
39:10SUPPORTED BLACK ACTIVISTS, IN
39:13FACT, SO MANY OF -- SO MUCH OF
39:16THE STRATEGIZING, THE ORGANIZING
39:18HAPPENED IN HOME KITCHENS.
39:19WE THINK ABOUT SOMEONE LIKE
39:25FANNY LOU HAMER.
39:26A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T AWARE
39:27THAT SHE STARTED THE FREEDOM
39:28FARM IN MICHIGAN, WHICH HAD OVER
39:31600 ACRES OF LAND, THEY HAD
39:34AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ACRES AND
39:35ACRES OF FARMLAND, AND
39:38EDUCATIONAL WORKSHOPS TO EMPOWER
39:39THE COMMUNITY.
39:41YOU KNOW, BUT -- I WANT TO JUST
39:43MENTION ONE OF MY BIGGEST
39:44INSPIRATIONS, AND THAT WAS THE
39:46BLACK PANTHER PARTY FOR
39:47SELF-DEFENSE.
39:49AND, YOU KNOW, WHILE THE POPULAR
39:52MEDIA OFTEN PAINTS THEM AS KIND
39:53OF ANGRY MILITANTS, THEY HAD A
39:54NUMBER OF MEANINGFUL AND
39:58POWERFUL PROGRAMS THAT WERE
40:01AIMED AT MEETING THE BASIC NEEDS
40:02AND COMMUNITIES, AND A NUMBER OF
40:04THEM LOOKED AT HEALTH.
40:05SPECIFICALLY FOOD.
40:06THEIR GROCERY GIVEAWAYS, AND
40:08THEIR FREE BREAKFAST FOR
40:09CHILDREN PROGRAM, IN WHICH THEY
40:11WERE FEEDING CHILDREN HOT
40:14BREAKFASTS EVERY SINGLE MORNING.
40:16SO, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE
40:18THINGS THAT PREDATE THE TYPE OF
40:19ACTIVISM THAT I CURRENTLY DO
40:20AROUND THESE ISSUES, IT ONLY
40:22MAKES SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE
40:23THINK ABOUT JUNETEENTH AND JUST
40:25ALL THE CONNECTIONS WITH THE
40:27KIND OF TRANSFER OF INGREDIENTS
40:30FROM THE AFRICAN CONTINENT TO
40:31THE NEW WORLD, AS WELL AS
40:33COOKING TECHNIQUES -- SO, I USE
40:35IT AS A TIME TO CELEBRATE FOOD.
40:36>> YOU KNOW, PEOPLE OFTEN THINK
40:38OF AFRICAN AMERICAN CUISINE, OR
40:42TRADITIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN
40:43CUISINE AS SLAVE FOOD, RIGHT?
40:45WHAT WAS CREATED FROM THE
40:47REMNANTS, THE LEFTOVER, THE
40:48LEAST DESIRABLE PORTIONS, AS IT
40:52WERE.
40:52YOU REALLY -- TALK ABOUT
40:55RESISTANCE, YOU REALLY RESIST
40:56THAT NARRATIVE.
40:56YOU WANT TO SAY MORE ABOUT THAT,
40:58WHY YOU THINK THAT'S NOT REALLY
40:59QUITE RIGHT, AND WHY YOU PUSH
41:00HARD AGAINST THAT?
41:01>> WELL, I THINK, IN GENERAL,
41:03AND THE POPULAR IMAGINATION,
41:05THERE ARE THESE WAYS WE THINK
41:09ABOUT BLACK FOOD, SPECIFICALLY
41:10FOOD IN THE UNITED STATES.
41:12AND SO, AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE
41:14ARE KIND OF THESE TWO STRAINS
41:15THAT I'VE SEEN PEOPLE TALK
41:16ABOUT.
41:17THEY EITHER TALK ABOUT THE
41:18ANTEBELLUM SURVIVAL FOOD, WHERE
41:21MANY ENSLAVED AFRICANS RELIED,
41:25AND PEOPLE OFTEN TALK
41:26DISPARAGINGLY ABOUT THAT FOOD.
41:29AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE
41:30ARE -- THIS KIND OF HISTORY OF
41:32OFTEN PLANTATION OWNERS GIVING
41:34ENSLAVED AFRICANS THE WORST
41:36PARTS OF THE ANIMALS, THE
41:38DISCARDED PARTS OF THE
41:40VEGETABLE, AND ONE, YOU KNOW,
41:41LET'S NOT MENTION THE FACT THAT
41:42THERE WERE FREED BLACK PEOPLE,
41:45EVERY BLACK PERSON IN THE UNITED
41:45STATES, A PERSON OF AFRICAN
41:47DECENT, WASN'T ENSLAVED, BUT THE
41:49OTHER THING IS, THE INSTITUTION
41:51OF SLAVERY WASN'T A MONOLITH.
41:53SO, MAYBE IN THE DEEP SOUTH, THE
41:54BLACK BELT, IT WAS MORE OF A
41:56PATERNALISTIC SYSTEM IN WHICH
41:58EVERY YEAR OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS
42:01WAS PROVIDED BY PLANTATION
42:03OWNERS, BUT THE INSTITUTION OF
42:04SLAVERY LOOKED DIFFERENT.
42:04THE WAY THAT ENSLAVED AFRICANS
42:06MIGHT GROW FOOD, COOK IT AND EAT
42:08IT IN THE COASTAL CAROLINAS
42:10LOOKED DIFFERENT THAN IT DID IN
42:12MISSISSIPPI, ALABAMA, AND
42:13TENNESSEE.
42:13AND THAT LOOKED DIFFERENT THAN
42:15IT DID IN LOUISIANA, THAN IT DID
42:17IN BRAZIL.
42:18AND SO, TO REDUCE IT TO JUST
42:20SLAVE FOODS ERASES THIS HISTORY
42:21OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS MAYBE
42:23HAVING A GARDEN IN WHICH THEY
42:24COULD GROW THEIR OWN FOOD FOR
42:25THEIR FAMILIES OR HAVING A DAY
42:27OFF WHERE THEY COULD HUNT FOR
42:29PROTEIN.
42:29BUT THE OTHER STRAND THAT I SEE
42:30ARE THE KIND OF BIG FLAVORED
42:33MEATS THAT WE MIGHT FIND IN A
42:34SOUL FOOD RESTAURANT, OR THE
42:37SUGARY DESSERTS OR OVERCOOKED
42:40VEGETABLES.
42:40I'M NOT DENYING ANY OF THOSE
42:42THINGS.
42:45CHITLINS AND MACARONI AND
42:46CHEESE, ALL THESE THINGS ARE
42:47PART OF THIS VERY DIVERSE
42:49CUISINE THAT WE HAVE, BUT WHEN I
42:50THINK ABOUT THE TYPE OF FOOD
42:52THAT MY GRANDFATHER AND HIS
42:53PARENTS AND, YOU KNOW, SO MANY
42:55OF OUR ANCESTORS, THEY WERE
42:56GROWING AND EATING THINGS LIKE
43:01NUTRIENT-RICH COLLARDS, KALE,
43:05BEANS, SWEET POTATOES, BLACK
43:06EYED PEAS.
43:07THESE ARE THE TYPES OF FOODS
43:09THAT ANY WESTERN-TRAINED
43:11PHYSICIAN OR DIETITIAN OR
43:12NUTRITIONIST WOULD SAY, WE
43:13SHOULD ALL EAT.
43:13AND SO, I SIMPLY WANT TO UPLIFT
43:16AND HIGHLIGHT THOSE FOODS THAT
43:18ARE PART OF OUR TRA SITUATION SO
43:20WE HAVE A MORE WHOLISTIC
43:21UNDERSTANDING OF THE TYPE OF
43:23FOODS THAT WE'VE GROWN AND EATEN
43:25HISTORICALLY.
43:26>> HOW DID IT START FOR YOU?
43:29>> WELL, I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT
43:31THE PERIOD WHEN I -- YOU KNOW,
43:34THERE'S THIS STEREOTYPE, I'M
43:36SURE YOU'VE KIND OF HEARD OR
43:37SEEN THE STEREOTYPE OF THE
43:42SELF-RIGHTEOUS, DOGMATIC, THE
43:44PEOPLE WAGGING THE FINGER AT YOU
43:45BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT EATING A
43:50VEGAN DIET.
43:50SO, THAT WAS ME IN HIGH SCHOOL,
43:52AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE
43:52POWERFUL THINGS THAT REALLY
43:56HELPED TRANSFORM MY HABITS AND
43:59ATTITUDES IN POLITICS REGARDING
44:00FOOD WAS A HIP HOP SONG.
44:02THE SONG "BEEF" BY THE HIP HOP
44:04GROUP BOOGIE DOWN PRODUCTIONS.
44:09♪ BEEF ♪
44:09♪ WHAT A RELIEF ♪
44:11♪ WHEN WILL THIS POISONOUS
44:13PRODUCT CEASE ♪
44:14♪ THIS IS ANOTHER PUBLIC SERVICE
44:16ANNOUNCEMENT ♪
44:16♪ YOU CAN BELIEVE IT ♪
44:18♪ OR YOU CAN DOUBT IT ♪
44:19♪ LET US AGAIN NOW WITH THE
44:20COW ♪
44:21>> IT JUST REALLY BLEW ME AWAY,
44:23AND JUST TRANSFORMED EVERYTHING
44:24FOR ME, BECAUSE THEY WERE
44:25TALKING ABOUT FACTORY FARMING.
44:26I HAD NO IDEA THAT ANIMALS IN
44:30OUR INDUSTRIALIZED FOOD SYSTEM
44:32HAD TO ENDURE SO MUCH VIOLENCE.
44:34IT HAD SUCH AN IMPACT ON ME.
44:36AND, THE THING IS, I ALWAYS TALK
44:37ABOUT JUST THAT KIND OF ABRASIVE
44:39PERIOD THAT I WENT THROUGH, AND
44:40I THINK IT'S JUST NATURAL FOR A
44:42YOUNG PERSON TO HAVE A SHIFT IN
44:43WORLD VIEW, AND TO FEEL VERY
44:44ZEALOUS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRYING
44:46TO CHANGE THE WORLD.
44:48BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHAT I'VE SEEN
44:51IS THAT RATHER THAN PROSTLY
44:56TIZING, THE WAY I'VE ENGAGED
44:57PEOPLE IS DOING PRACTICAL
44:58THINGS, TEACHING PEOPLE COOKING
45:00SKILLS, WRITING COOKBOOKS,
45:01PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH DELICIOUS
45:02FOOD, AND THEN, THAT IS SUCH A
45:04POWERFUL WAY TO KIND OF
45:06TRANSFORM PEOPLE'S HEARTS,
45:07MINDS, AND SPIRITS.
45:08>> WHAT MADE YOU BECOME A CHEF?
45:09>> IT WAS REALLY THE POLITICS OF
45:10FOOD THAT MOVED ME TOWARDS, YOU
45:14KNOW, JUST GOING TO CULINARY
45:15SCHOOL AND THINKING ABOUT USING
45:17FOOD AS A KIND OF TRANSFORMATIVE
45:19TOOL AND IT STARTED WHEN I WAS A
45:22DOCTORAL STUDENT IN HISTORY AT
45:23NYU WHEN I WAS DOINGER ARE
45:25SEARCH ON THE BLACK PANTHERS.
45:26THEY WERE DOING ALL THESE
45:27PROGRAMS AROUND HEALTH, DOING
45:32TESTING FOR SICKLE CELL ANEMIA,
45:34BUT THE ONE THAT TRANSFORMED ME
45:36THE MOST WAS THE FREE BREAKFAST
45:38FOR CHILDREN PROGRAM.
45:39THIS WAS STARTED IN 1969, AND BY
45:41THE END OF THE YEAR, IT HAD
45:42SPREAD TO EVERY MAJOR CITY THAT
45:44HAD A BLACK PANTHER CHAPTER, AND
45:46THEY WERE FEEDING 10,000
45:47CHILDREN EVERY SINGLE DAY.
45:48AND I JUST REMEMBER THIS KIND
45:49OF, LIKE, MOMENT OF CLARITY, I
45:51WAS ON THE SUBWAY ONE MORNING
45:53GOING TO THE VILLAGE TO TEACH A
45:55CLASS, AND I SAW THESE KIDS ON
45:56THE SUBWAY EATING RED HOT
45:59CHEETOS AND CANDY BARS AND
46:02SUGARY DOUGHNUTS AND DRINKING
46:04SODAS, AND ENERGY DRINKS, AND I
46:05REALIZED THAT THESE KIDS, AS MY
46:10MENTOR RAJ PATEL WOULD SAY, THEY
46:13ARE BEING STUFFED AND STARVED.
46:14THEY ARE EATING EMPTY CALORIES.
46:19WE NEEDED THE SPIRIT OF THE
46:21ACTIVISM FROM THE '60s.
46:22I WANTED TO MAKE AN
46:24INTERVENTION.
46:24BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO JUST, YOU
46:26KNOW, BE IN THE REALM OF, LIKE,
46:27IDEAS AND POLITICS.
46:29I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT
46:31FELT PRACTICAL, THAT FELT LIKE
46:32IT WAS GIVING YOUNG PEOPLE
46:34SKILLS, AND SO, I STARTED AN
46:35ORGANIZATION, BE HEALTHY, THAT
46:36USED COOKING AS A WAY TO WAKE UP
46:39THESE YOUNG PEOPLE TO THE
46:40REALITIES OF OUR FOOD SYSTEM,
46:41BUT ALSO, GIVE THEM THE SKILLS
46:43SO THAT WHEN THEY WERE ADULTS,
46:44THEY COULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO
46:46MAKE MEALS FOR THEMSELVES, GO
46:48SHOPPING, PREPARE THE FOOD, AND
46:49THEN, YOU KNOW, REALLY HAVE THIS
46:51KIND OF SUSTENANCE-BASED
46:54APPROACH TO TAKING CARE OF
46:55THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.
46:56>> HAVE YOU SEEN A CHANGE OVER
46:57THE TIME, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN
46:58WORKING AS A CHEF AND ALSO AS A
47:03COOKBOOK AUTHOR, HAVE YOU SEEN A
47:05CHANGE?
47:05I KNOW, LIKE, THINKING ABOUT --
47:06ONE OF YOUR FIRST BOOKS,
47:11"AFRO-VEGAN," YOU KNOW, A LOT OF
47:13PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SURPRISED
47:14THAT SOMEONE LIKE YOU EVEN
47:15EXISTS.
47:15>> THAT BOOK WAS PUBLISHED A
47:17DECK CAUSE AGO.
47:17WE JUST CELEBRATED THE TEN-YEAR
47:19ANNIVERSARY.
47:20AND IT'S BEEN SO ENCOURAGING, I
47:21HAVE TO SAY, TO SEE SO MANY
47:24PEOPLE WHO ARE, I'LL SAY OPEN TO
47:29EATING MORE PLANT-BASED FOODS.
47:31EVEN PEOPLE WHO AREN'T
47:33NECESSARILY TRYING TO EMBRACE A
47:35FULL-ON VEGAN OR PLANT-BASED
47:37DIET.
47:37I'VE SEEN PEOPLE ARE OPEN TO
47:39DOING MEATLESS MONDAYS, OR OPEN
47:42TO DOING ONE MEAL A DAY THAT HAS
47:44JUST, YOU KNOW, A VEGAN MEAL,
47:48WITH NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS.
47:49AND WHAT THAT SAYS TO ME IS THAT
47:50MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE -- I
47:53MEAN, LOOK, THE DATA IS OUT.
47:54WE KNOW THAT HAVING A MORE
47:59PLANT-CENTERED DIET, IT'S --
48:01MORE NUTRIENT-DENSE, IT TENDS TO
48:04BE MORE HELPFUL, AND PEOPLE JUST
48:06FEEL LIGHTER.
48:07AND YOU'VE SEEN ME ON THIS
48:08JOURNEY FOR A DECADE, AND I JUST
48:10WANT TO SAY THAT THAT HAS BEEN
48:12MY APPROACH.
48:12YOU CAN START WITH THE HEADY,
48:16INTELLECTUAL IDEAS OR THE
48:17POLITICS, BUT A LOT OF TIMES,
48:18WHEN YOU START THERE, PEOPLE RUN
48:20AWAY, BUT MY APPROACH HAS BEEN
48:21STARTING WITH THE FOOD.
48:22BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
48:24HAVE THESE NEGATIVE PERCEPTIONS
48:25OF WHAT PLANT-BASED CUISINE IS,
48:28AND WHAT I'VE SEEN IS, WHEN YOU
48:30SERVE PEOPLE DELICIOUS FOOD
48:32THAT'S DEVOID OF ANIMAL
48:33PRODUCTS, THEY ARE OFTEN
48:34SURPRISED, AND IT MAKES THEM
48:36MORE OPEN TO EATING THIS TYPE OF
48:38FOOD.
48:38I WILL SAY THAT ONE THING THAT
48:39HAS BEEN A LITTLE FRUSTRATING TO
48:41ME IS THAT IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT
48:42OF PEOPLE FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW,
48:44SPENDING THEIR DOLLARS IN
48:45ALIGNMENT WITH THEIR VALUES IS
48:46ENOUGH.
48:47YOU KNOW, IF I JUST GO TO THE
48:48BIG CORPORATE MARKET AND I BUY
48:49ALL THIS, YOU KNOW, VEGAN AND
48:51ORGANIC FOOD, THEN I'M DOING MY
48:52JOB.
48:53AND I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT TO
48:55SPEND OUR DOLLARS IN ALIGNMENT
48:56WITH OUR VALUES, BUT I THINK WE
48:58NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE LARGER
48:59STRUCTURAL REASONS THAT MANY
49:02COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO
49:03HEALTHY, FRESH FOOD.
49:04THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO
49:06SUPERMARKETS, SO, I ALWAYS
49:06ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT,
49:08WELL, HOW CAN YOU GET INVOLVED
49:09WITH YOUR COMMUNITY TO ENSURE
49:10THAT EVERYONE HAS A HUMAN RIGHT
49:12TO HEALTHY, FRESH, AFFORDABLE,
49:15AND, YOU KNOW, PLANT-CENTERED
49:16FOOD?
49:17>> DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE
49:17MAKING HEADWAY?
49:19>> OH, FOR SURE.
49:21I -- YOU KNOW THE THING THAT
49:23LETS ME KNOW THAT I'M MAKING
49:25HEADWAY IS THIS GENERATION OF
49:28YOUNG COOKBOOK AUTHORS AND CHEFS
49:30AND FOOD JUSTICE ACTIVISTS WHO
49:33ARE IN THE STREETS DOING IT BIG.
49:35I TURNED 50 THIS YEAR.
49:36I'M AN OLD MAN NOW.
49:38AND JUST AS I'M STANDING ON THE
49:40SHOULDERS OF SO MANY OF MY
49:42ANCESTORS WHO COME BEFORE ME,
49:45ACTIVISTS LIKE DICK GREGORY, OR
49:47THE, YOU KNOW, MC KARA IS ONE,
49:56VERTA MAE SMART GROSSER.
49:58I HOPE MANY SEE THEMSELVES
50:01STANDING ON MY SHOULDERS, AND I
50:02IMAGINE THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE
50:03THIS SO MUCH FURTHER THAN I
50:04COULD IMAGINE.
50:05SO, I'M HOPEFUL.
50:06I'M SO HOPEFUL.
50:07>> ONE OF YOUR LATEST BOOKS,
50:09YOUR 2021 BOOK, WON A BUNCH OF
50:16AWARDS, IT WAS HAILED AT ONE OF
50:18THE MOST CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED
50:19AMERICAN COOKBOOKS THAT YEAR.
50:20ARE THERE ONE OR TWO STORIES OR
50:22ESSAYS THAT REALLY STAND OUT TO
50:23YOU, OR RECIPES, FOR THAT
50:26MATTER, THAT REALLY STANDS OUT
50:26TO YOU?
50:28>> WE PUT THAT BOOK TOGETHER IN
50:28NINE MONTHS, AND WE STARTED
50:31WORKING ON IT IN 2020, WHEN THE
50:33U.S. WAS KIND OF RECKONING WITH
50:35THE WAYS IN WHICH WE'VE TREATED
50:39AFRICAN AMERICANS HISTORICALLY
50:41AND CONTEMPORANEOUSLY.
50:43I SAW AN ANTHOLOGY, LIKE BLACK
50:46FOOD THAT BROUGHT TOGETHER
50:47SCHOLARS AND CHEFS AND ARTISTS
50:48AND ACTIVISTS FROM AROUND THE
50:50GLOBE, AS SOMETHING THAT I DO
50:51LATER IN MY CAREER.
50:52BUT IN THAT MOMENT, I REALIZED
50:53THAT THERE WAS A SENSE OF
50:56URGENCY TO DO IT THEN, BECAUSE
50:57IT WAS REVEALED -- THERE WAS A
50:58LOT OF RACISM WITHIN THE
50:59PUBLISHING INDUSTRY.
51:00AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT
51:03OF HIGHLIGHTING OF THE WAYS IN
51:05WHICH AUTHORS OF COLOR AND BLACK
51:07AUTHORS WERE HAVING A HARDER
51:08TIME GETTING THEIR WORK
51:10PUBLISHED.
51:10SO, I JUST FELT LIKE THIS WAS
51:11THE MOMENT, AND I REACHED OUT TO
51:12FRIENDS AROUND THE GLOBE TO BE
51:15APART OF THIS BOOK, AND I
51:17COULDN'T BE MORE PROUD.
51:17MY FAVORITE ASPECT OF THE BOOK
51:20IS THE ARTWORK.
51:21EVERY CHAPTER STARTS WITH A
51:23PIECE OF ART THAT I GOT
51:25PERMISSION OR EITHER HAD ARTISTS
51:28KIND OF CREATE ORIGINAL PIECE
51:30THAT REALLY ENCAPSULATED THE
51:31IDEAS AND THE CONTENT WITHIN.
51:34AND, YOU KNOW, I -- I JUST -- AS
51:36AN EDUCATOR, I'M ALWAYS THINKING
51:38ABOUT THE MULTIPLE WAYS THAT
51:39PEOPLE LEARN.
51:40SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN
51:42FORMALLY EDUCATED, THEY CAN DUG
51:43DEEPLY INTO, YOU KNOW, A HEADY,
51:48INTELLECTUAL ESSAY, BUT SOME
51:49PEOPLE MIGHT BE MORE MOVED BY AN
51:50IMAGE THAT REALLY JUST SPEAKS
51:51TO, YOU KNOW, THESE ISSUES THAT
51:53WE'RE COVERING.
51:54SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE MOVED BY
51:57THE POETRY IN THE BOOK.
51:58OTHERS ARE JUST GOING TO SEE IT
52:01KITCHEN.
52:01SO, WHEN I WROTE THE BOOK, WHEN
52:04I CONCEIVED OF IT, I SAID, I
52:05WANT THIS TO BE A BOOK THAT
52:07MOVED FROM ONE'S KITCHEN TO
52:10THEIR NIGHT STAND TO THEIR
52:11COFFEE TABLE.
52:11AND THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN SO
52:13TREMENDOUS, AND, YOU KNOW, HERE
52:15WE ARE, WHAT, THREE YEARS LATER,
52:17AFTER THE BOOK PUBLISHED, AND
52:19WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT,
52:20AND I HOPE WE'RE STILL TALKING
52:22ABOUT IT 30 YEARS FROM NOW.
52:23>> OKAY, WELL, FOR THE MOMENT,
52:24THOUGH, SOME PEOPLE DO WANT
52:25THOSE RECIPES.
52:26SO, WHILE PEOPLE ARE PLANNING
52:28THEIR JUNETEENTH GET-TOGETHERS,
52:30WHAT -- WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?
52:31ANY RECOMMENDATIONS?
52:33>> OH, MY GOSH.
52:36MY FAVORITE RECIPE IN THE BOOK
52:42IS THIS BLUEBERRY VEGAN
52:47CHEESECAKE BY THIS BRILLIANT
52:49PASTRY CHEF, MALCOLM LIVINGSTON.
52:52AND TO BE CLEAR, THIS RECIPE,
52:53THIS COOK BOOK HAS, YOU KNOW,
52:55DOZENS OF RECIPES, BUT THEY
52:57AREN'T ALL VEGAN.
52:58AND IT WAS A DECISION I HAD TO
52:59MAKE AS AN EDITOR TO REALLY GIVE
53:01THE CONTRIBUTORS A SPACE TO, YOU
53:04KNOW, WRITE OR CONTRIBUTE THE
53:05RECIPE THAT MADE SENSE FOR THEM,
53:06OR TOLD THEIR FAMILY'S STORY.
53:07I LOVE NICOLE TAYLOR, A GOOD
53:11FRIEND OF MINE, WHO ACTUALLY HAS
53:12A BOOK ABOUT JUNETEENTH THAT'S
53:16BRILLIANT, "WATERMELON AND RED
53:19BIRDS," SHE DOES THIS
53:21COCOA-BASED FISH RECIPE, AND
53:25PEOPLE WOULD THINK, COCOA AND
53:26FISH?
53:26BUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT
53:29AND SCRUMPTIOUS.
53:31THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD DRINK
53:35RECIPES.
53:36TONY TIPTON MARTIN DOES A
53:39RECIPE, I THINK IT'S A WHISKEY
53:41SOUR.
53:41SO, THERE ARE JUST SO MANY GREAT
53:42RECIPES IN THERE, AND, YOU KNOW,
53:43I THINK IN TERMS OF
53:46MENU-PLANNING FOR JUNETEENTH OR
53:48OTHERWISE, THIS IS A POWERFUL
53:49RESOURCE.
53:50>> THIS WILL HELP YOU OUT.
53:51ALL RIGHT, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO,
53:53I HAVE TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT.
53:55WHAT IS YOUR CELEBRATION FOOD?
53:56WHAT IS YOUR KIND OF GO-TO FOR A
53:58GET-TOGETHER DAY LIKE
53:59JUNETEENTH?
54:02>> IF I HAVE TO MAKE A DISH, IF
54:04IT'S ONE THING THAT'S EMBLEMATIC
54:08OF MY LOVE, IT'S BLACK EYED
54:11PEAS, RICE, RICH TOMATO SAUCE.
54:13THAT'S HANDS DOWN MY FAVORITE
54:14DISH.
54:14>> THAT'S GOT TO BE THERE.
54:15ALL RIGHT.
54:17BRYANT TERRY, THANK YOU SO MUCH
54:19FOR TALKING WITH US, AND HAPPY
54:21JUNETEENTH.
54:22>> HAPPY JUNETEENTH.
54:25THANK YOU SO MUCH.
54:26>>> AND FINALLY, WE REMEMBER A
54:27GIANT IN MORE THAN ONE WAY.
54:29WILLIE MAYS HAS DIED AT 93 YEARS
54:31OLD.
54:31KNOWN AS THE SAY HEY KID, FOR
54:35THE WAY HE ENTHUSIASTICALLY
54:36GREETED OTHERS, HE WAS AMONG THE
54:38FIRST GENERATION OF AFRICAN
54:39AMERICAN PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE
54:40BASEBALL.
54:41HE DOMINATED THE GAME FOR
54:42DECADES, PLAYING 23 SEASONS,
54:45MOSTLY FOR THE NEW YORK, THEN
54:46SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS.
54:47HIS FAMOUS OVER THE SHOULDER
54:48CATCH DURING THE WORLD SERIES IN
54:521954 REMANES ONE OF THE MOST
54:54ICONIC MOMENTS EVER SEEN IN
54:55BASEBALL.
54:57FINISHING WITH 660 CAREER HOME
54:59RUNS, AND WINNING 12 GOLD GLOVE
55:01AWARDS, HE WAS A FORCE BOTH AT
55:03BAT AND IN THE FIELD.
55:05HERE HE TELLS LARRY KING HOW HE
55:07OVERCAME PREJUDICE WITH HIS
55:08TALENT FOR THE GAME.
55:10>> ONLY TIME I HAD A PROBLEM WAS
55:13HAGERSTOWN, MARYLAND, I HAD A
55:15VERY, VERY -- ON A FRIDAY
55:16AFTERNOON, THEY CALLED ME ALL
55:18KINDS OF NAMES THERE.
55:19BUT BY SUNDAY, THEY WAS ALL
55:21CLAPPING.
55:22>> HIS LEGACY ON AND OFF THE
55:26FIELD ENSPIRED GENERATIONS AND
55:27WILL CONTINUE TO.
55:28>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR
55:29PROGRAM TONIGHT.
55:30IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S
55:31COMING UP ON THE SHOW EVERY
55:32NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR
55:32NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.
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55:38AND COMPANY" ON PBS.
55:39JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.