Amanpour & Co. - June 14, 2024
A grim milestone in Afghanistan this week as the country marks 1,000 days since girls were banned from attending secondary school. Afghanistan is once more a desperate place for women, who are seeing their rights fade away in a reality Malala Yousafzai calls “gender apartheid.” Malala discusses her foundation’s announcement today of another $1.5 million pledged to keep girls’ education alive.
Transcript
00:01♪
00:04>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.
00:06AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND
00:10COMPANY."
00:11HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
00:12>> WE REFUSE TO LET THE TALIBAN
00:15DEPRIVE US OF OUR FUTURE.
00:16>> A CALL TO ACTION SINCE MORE
00:18THAN 1,000 DAYS SINCE THE
00:23TALIBAN BANNED AFGHAN GIRLS FROM
00:25GOING TO SCHOOL.
00:26>> WHEN TERRORISTS ARE SHOOTING
00:28AT YOU, YOU LEAVE EVERYTHING
00:31BEHIND.
00:31>> THE FOUNDER OF THE MUSIC
00:35FESTIVAL TELLS ME ABOUT SURVIVES
00:37HAMAS' ATTACK AND HIS NEW
00:39EXHIBIT DOCUMENTS THAT DAY.
00:40>> IT WAS A SHOCKINGLY DIFFERENT
00:42TIME.
00:42THE PAST IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY.
00:44>> THE YEAR OF LIVING
00:47CONSTITUTIONALLY.
00:47TALKING TO AUTHOR A.J. JACOBS,
00:51WHO SPENT 12 MONTHS LIVING LIKE
00:53IT'S THE 1,700s.
00:59♪
01:11>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS
01:16MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON
01:18FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND
01:20LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING
01:26WEIR, MARK J., SETONJ. MELVIN,
01:35CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
01:39COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURE
01:41DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
01:43BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
01:44ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY
01:47THESE FUNDERS AND BY
01:48CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS
01:50STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
01:52THANK YOU.
01:52>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM,
01:55EVERYONE.
01:56I'M IN NEW YORK CITY, SITTING IN
02:01FOR CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR.
02:02THE COUNTRY MARKS 1,000 DAYS
02:05SINCE GIRLS WERE BANNED FROM
02:07ATTENDING SECONDARY SCHOOL AS
02:08THE TALIBAN CONTINUE TO TIGHTEN
02:09THEIR GRIP ON THE COUNTRY,
02:11DESPITE PROMISING MODERATION
02:12AFTER TAKING POWER IN AUGUST OF
02:142021.
02:15IT IS NOW ONCE MORE A DESPERATE
02:17PLACE FOR WOMEN, WHO FOR PUBLIC
02:19PARKS TO JOBS, FIND THEMSELVES
02:22FADING AWAY.
02:24IT'S A REALITY CALLED GENDER
02:27APARTHEID.
02:27THE TERM SHE CALLS ON WORLD
02:29LEADERS TO RECOGNIZE IT IS A
02:31CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.
02:32SHE IS, OF COURSE, A SURVIVOR OF
02:34THAT VIOLENCE AGAINST GIRLS,
02:35SHOT BY A PAKISTAN TALIBAN ON
02:38HER WAY HOME FROM SCHOOL WHEN
02:40SHE WAS JUST 15 YEARS OLD.
02:41SHE HAS SINCE BECOME THE YOUNGER
02:44EVER NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER
02:46AND A FIERCE ADVOCATE FOR THE
02:48RIGHTS OF GIRLS AND WOMEN AROUND
02:50THE WORLD.
02:50TODAY HER FOUNDATION IS
02:52ANNOUNCING ANOTHER $1.5 MILLION
02:53TO KEEP GIRLS' EDUCATION ALIVE
02:56IN AFGHANISTAN.
02:57AND SHE JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW
02:59YORK.
03:01MALALA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
03:03JOINING US ON THIS PROGRAM ON
03:06THIS REALLY GRIM MILESTONE
03:07MARKING 1,000 DAYS SINCE GIRLS
03:11IN AFGHANISTAN HAVE BEEN
03:13DEPRIVED OF WHAT SHOULD BE
03:14SOMETHING EVERY CHILD IS
03:16ENTITLED TO, AND THAT OBVIOUSLY
03:18ISN'T EDUCATION.
03:19JUST TALK TO US PERSONALLY ABOUT
03:22WHAT THIS MOMENT MEANS FOR YOU.
03:26>> IT HAS BEEN THREE YEARS THAT
03:29AFGHAN GIRLS HAVE NOT SEEN THEIR
03:32CLASSROOMS.
03:32IT HAS BEEN MORE THAN 1,000 DAYS
03:35THAT AFGHAN GIRLS HAVE NOT SEEN
03:38THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN.
03:42AND THAT IS MAKING IT ILLEGAL IN
03:45AFGHANISTAN.
03:45THE TALIBAN ARE DENYING WOMEN
03:47AND GIRLS THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS.
03:50AND THIS SHOULD SHOCK US.
03:51THIS SHOULD PUT US INTO ACTION.
03:53THAT'S WHY I THINK IT IS SO
03:55IMPORTANT FOR US TO CALL IT A
03:58SYSTEMATIC OPPRESSION IMPOSED BY
04:00THE TALIBAN ON THE WOMEN OF
04:02AFGHANISTAN, WHICH IS LIMITING
04:03THEM FROM EDUCATION, FROM
04:05LEARNING, FROM WORK AND FROM A
04:06PUBLIC LIFE.
04:07AND THAT IS WHY AFGHAN WOMEN
04:09ACTIVISTS ARE CALLING IT A
04:10GENDER APARTHEID, WHICH MEANS IT
04:12IS A SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION BY
04:14THOSE WHO ARE IN POWER FOR MEN
04:18TO ACTUALLY PROTECT THEM.
04:19THERE IS NO PLACE FOR AFGHAN
04:21WOMEN TO GO TO.
04:22THEY HAVE CURRENTLY NO FUTURE.
04:25>> ARE YOU SATISFIED?
04:27AND I WOULD ASSUME THE ANSWER IS
04:30NO, WITH THE ATTENTION AND FOCUS
04:32THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE IS GETTING
04:33FROM AROUND THE WORLD AND THE
04:36PRESSURE BEING PUT ON THE
04:38TALIBAN TO BRING THIS UP TIME
04:40AND TIME AGAIN, THE REAL ABUSE,
04:43EMOTIONAL, MENTAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL
04:45AND EVEN PHYSICAL THAT WOMEN
04:47HAVE HAD TO ENDURE SINCE THEY
04:49CAME BACK INTO POWER?
04:52>> I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS
04:54ACTIVISM SINCE THE FALL OF KABUL
04:56IN 2021, AND I REMEMBER AT THAT
04:59TIME THE OUTRAGE THAT AFGHAN
05:00WOMEN AND GIRLS WERE SHOWING,
05:02THAT WE CANNOT TRUST THE
05:04TALIBAN.
05:04BUT SOME PEOPLE SAID THAT WE
05:05NEED TO GET THEM A BIT MORE
05:07TIME, AND WE NEED TO TRUST THE
05:09TALIBAN ON THEIR PROMISES.
05:10BUT THE WOMEN, THE AFGHAN WOMEN
05:12KNEW IT.
05:12NOW IT HAS BEEN MORE THAN THREE
05:14YEARS.
05:14WHAT IS THE EXCUSE NOW?
05:16IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT THOSE
05:17WHO ARE NEGOTIATING AND TALKING
05:19TO THE TALIBAN PRIORITIZE
05:21WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND GIRLS'
05:23EDUCATION, THAT WOMEN'S RIGHTS
05:25AND GIRLS EDUCATION IS A
05:27NONNEGOTIABLE CONDITION ON THE
05:29TABLE.
05:29AND THOSE WOMEN HAVE TO BE IN
05:30THOSE ROOMS WHERE DECISIONS
05:32ABOUT THEIR FUTURE ARE MADE.
05:34AND THERE ARE MEETINGS HAPPENING
05:35AT THE END OF THIS MONTH AS
05:36WELL.
05:37SO I DO PUSH LEADERS.
05:38I DO PUSH THE UN OFFICIALS AS
05:40WELL THAT THEY HAVE TO ENSURE
05:41THAT THERE IS NO COMPROMISE ON
05:43THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN AND GIRLS.
05:45WE CANNOT LIVE IN A SOCIETY
05:47WHERE WE ALL CLAIM OUR LEADERS
05:50CLAIM THAT WE CARE ABOUT GENDER
05:51EQUITY AND EQUALITY WHILE WE ARE
05:53PUTTING ALL OF THAT AT RISK IF
05:56AFGHANISTAN.
05:57WE ARE NOT EVEN REACTING THAT
06:00GIRLS' EDUCATION RIGHT NOW IS
06:01BANNED, IS PROHIBITED FOR GIRLS.
06:03>> A REMINDER OF THE FALSE
06:06PROMISES MADE AND PERHAPS THE
06:09NAIVE TRUST OR HOPE THAT WAS
06:11GIVEN TO THIS NEW TALIBAN, AS
06:13THEY CALLED IT, 2.0 WHEN THEY
06:16CAME BACK TO POWER.
06:17THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE THAT WE
06:19HAVE FOCUSED A LOT OF TIME HERE
06:21ON CNN.
06:24CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR SPECIFICALLY,
06:26AS YOU KNOW.
06:27AND SHE BROUGHT THIS UP WITH THE
06:29DEPUTY LEADER OF THE TALIBAN AT
06:30THE TIME IN 2022 AND ASKED HIM
06:32HIM ABOUT GIRLS' RIGHTS.
06:34HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
06:36>> WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THE
06:41INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS
06:41RAISING THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S
06:47RIGHTS A LOT.
06:47HERE IN AFGHANISTAN, THERE ARE
06:51ISLAMIC, NATIONAL, CULTURAL AND
06:55TRADITIONAL PRINCIPLES.
06:58WITHIN THE LIMIT OF THOSE
07:00PRINCIPLES, WE ARE WORKING TO
07:03PROVIDE THEM WITH OPPORTUNITIES
07:05TO WORK, AND THAT IS OUR GOAL.
07:08>> HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
07:11WHAT ARE THESE QUOTE, UNQUOTE
07:13OPPORTUNITIES WITHIN THE LIMITS
07:15OF THE PARAMETERS HE SET?
07:17>> THERE ARE A DOZEN COUNTRIES
07:18IN THE WORLD.
07:19AND IN NONE OF THOSE MUSLIM
07:22COUNTRIES DO YOU SEE GIRLS
07:23PROHIBITED FROM EDUCATION OR
07:24PROHIBITED FROM WORK.
07:25IT IS NOT A CRIME FOR GIRLS TO
07:27HAVE RIGHTS IN THOSE COUNTRIES.
07:28AT THE SAME TIME, WE KNOW THAT
07:31CULTURAL AND RELIGION ARE OFTEN
07:34USED AS AN EXCUSE TO LIMIT
07:36WOMEN, TO PROTECT THEIR
07:39MISOGYNY.
07:39THERE IS NO SOLID BASIS FOR THAT
07:42AT ALL.
07:43ISLAM ACTUALLY ENCOURAGING
07:45EDUCATION FOR ALL CHILDREN, FOR
07:47EVERYBODY.
07:47AND IN ISLAM, IT IS YOUR
07:49RESPONSIBILITY TO GET EDUCATION.
07:52I DON'T KNOW WHAT SORT OF
07:53SYSTEM, WHAT SORT OF IDEOLOGY
07:55THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THE
07:57CULTURE THAT I COME FROM AND THE
07:59RELIGION THAT I KNOW, IT
08:01ENCOURAGES EDUCATION.
08:02AND I THINK THE TALIBAN NEED
08:03TO -- LIKE AT THIS POINT I WOULD
08:06SAY WE NEED MORE MUSLIM LEADERS
08:07AND MORE MUSLIM COUNTRIES TO
08:09STEP FORWARD AND ACTUALLY
08:10CHALLENGE THE TALIBAN TO SAY
08:12THAT IN ISLAM THERE IS NO
08:14JUSTIFICATION FOR A BAN ON
08:16GIRLS' EDUCATION AND PREVENTING
08:20WOMEN FROM WORK IN THE ISLAMIC
08:21CONTEST.
08:21>> THIS IS NOT JUST A HUMAN
08:23RIGHT.
08:24IT IS A RIGHT HURTING THE AFGHAN
08:26ECONOMY AS WELL, WHERE SO MANY
08:28WOMEN ARE JUST NOT ALLOWED TO
08:29CONTRIBUTE.
08:30YOU ARE, THOUGH, CONTRIBUTING,
08:32THOUGH, THROUGH YOUR FUND.
08:34$1.5 MILLION AS WE NOTED.
08:36EXPLAIN TO US HOW YOU AND YOUR
08:38FUND, THROUGH THIS MONEY, ARE
08:39ABLE TO HELP IN ANY WAY YOU CAN
08:42SPECIFICALLY.
08:42WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
08:44>> WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE
08:46OF AFGHANISTAN, IT IS STILL THE
08:47WOMEN AND GIRLS WHO GIVE ME
08:49HOPE.
08:49THEY ARE FOCUSSING ON THIS EVERY
08:51DAY FOR THE RIGHT TO AN
08:53EDUCATION, TO WORK, TO POLITICAL
08:56PRESENTATION AND TO A PUBLIC
08:58LIFE.
08:58THAT'S WHY WE ARE SUPPORTING
09:01AFGHAN ACTIVISTS ON THE GROUND
09:02WITH $1.5 MILLION ADDITIONAL
09:04FUNDING TO ORGANIZATIONS, 13
09:06ORGANIZATIONS IN AFGHANISTAN WHO
09:08ARE WORKING ON THE FRONT LINE TO
09:10ADVOCATE FOR GIRLS' RIGHTS TO AN
09:13EDUCATION.
09:13WE ARE ALSO AT THE SAME TIME
09:14SUPPORTING THE CAMPAIGN AND THE
09:16MOVEMENT LED BY AFGHAN WOMEN TO
09:19RECOGNIZE GENDER APARTHEID AND
09:20TO END IT AND TO HOLD THE
09:23TALIBAN TO ACCOUNT FOR
09:24COMMITTING THESE CRIMES AND TO
09:25PUSH LEADERS AND TO HOLD THEM TO
09:27ACCOUNT AS WELL FOR -- TO ENSURE
09:29THAT THEY ALSO TAKE STEPS.
09:32>> IT WAS IN 2013, SOME 11 YEARS
09:36AGO WHEN BUT YOUR 16 THAT YOU
09:37SPOKE BEFORE THE UN.
09:38HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID.
09:40YOU SAID PEACE IS NECESSARY FOR
09:41EDUCATION.
09:41YOU SAID THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH
09:43OFFERING AND WAR HAPPENING RIGHT
09:44NOW AS WE SPEAK.
09:46THERE ARE TWO BIG HOT WARS IN
09:48UKRAINE AND IN GAZA THERE.
09:50AND I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE
09:51RECENTLY ANNOUNCED A NEW
09:54GRADUATE PROGRAM AND SCHOLARSHIP
09:56FOR PALESTINIANS AT OXFORD
09:58UNIVERSITY.
09:58JUST TALK TO US ABOUT THIS
10:02MISSION FOR YOU AND THE HOPE
10:04THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE
10:08PALESTINIAN WOMEN, CHILDREN IN
10:09TERMS OF THEIR EFFORTS TO GO TO
10:12SCHOOL, TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL
10:14BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THAT CAN'T
10:15HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.
10:15>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK WE NEED
10:17TO REMIND ALL OF US THAT WHAT IS
10:20HAPPENING IN GAZA TO PALESTINIAN
10:23PEOPLE, TO PALESTINIAN CHILDREN
10:25IS HORRIFYING.
10:25MORE THAN 80% OF THE SCHOOLS
10:27HAVE BEEN DAMAGED.
10:28ALMOST ALL UNIVERSITIES HAVE
10:29BEEN BOMBED IN THIS BOMBING BY
10:32ISRAEL.
10:32SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT ANY WAR,
10:34ANY CRISIS IN THE WORLD, I THINK
10:36ABOUT CHILDREN.
10:36THESE WARS TAKE AWAY THEIR
10:39DREAMS, THEIR FUTURE.
10:40I WANT US TO BE IN A CLASSROOM.
10:43I WANT CHILDREN TO BE STUDYING,
10:44TO BE DREAMING ABOUT THEIR
10:46FUTURE, TO BE PLAYING OUTSIDE ON
10:48THEIR STREETS.
10:48WAR AND CONFLICTS AND OPPRESSION
10:51TAKES ALL OF THAT AWAY FROM
10:53CHILDREN.
10:53WE ARE SEEING THAT HAPPENING IN
10:55AFGHANISTAN.
10:55WE ARE SEEING THESE THINGS
10:57HAPPENING IN SUDAN AND IN GAZA.
10:59THIS HAS TO STOP.
11:01AGAIN, I WANT OUR LEADERS TO
11:02THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN, TO
11:03THINK ABOUT HUMANITY AND TO TAKE
11:06A BRAVE STEP TOWARDS PEACE.
11:08AND THE SAME I'M HOPING FOR
11:09AFGHANISTAN AS WELL, THAT IT HAS
11:11BEEN 1,000 DAYS.
11:13I CANNOT IMAGINE THAT IT'S 2,000
11:16DAYS, 3,000 DAYS.
11:18WE CANNOT KEEP AFGHAN GIRLS
11:20WAITING.
11:20I WANT TO REITERATE THAT IT IS
11:22SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO STAND
11:24WITH AFGHAN WOMEN AND GIRLS.
11:25THEY ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF
11:26THIS CAMPAIGN.
11:27SO I'M HERE TO SHARE MY EMPATHY
11:30AND TO SHARE MY SOLIDARITY TO
11:32THEM, TO ALL ACTIVISTS IN THE
11:34WORLD WHO ARE SPEAKING ABOUT
11:35PEACE, ABOUT JUSTICE.
11:36>> YES.
11:38MALALA, I CAN'T THINK ABOUT A
11:40BETTER SPOKESPERSON FOR THIS
11:41ISSUE AND YOUR BRAVERY AND
11:43CONTINUED FIGHT FOR THIS VERY,
11:44VERY IMPORTANT MISSION EDUCATING
11:46WOMEN, EDUCATING GIRLS, GIVING
11:47THEM THE RIGHTS THEY DESERVE.
11:49THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
11:50THE PROGRAM TODAY.
11:52>> THANK YOU.
11:53>>> AND FREEDOM REMAINS ALSO
11:56ELUSIVE FOR THE MANY HOSTAGES
11:58STILL HELD IN GAZA BY HAMAS.
12:01SOME ARE FROM THE MUSIC FESTIVAL
12:03WHERE AN EVENT DEDICATED TO
12:05PEACE AND LOVE BECAME THE SCENE
12:06OF A MASSACRE BY MILITANTS ON
12:09OCTOBER 7th.
12:11NOW AN EXHIBITION PRESENTS THE
12:17REMAINS OF THAT DAY.
12:18A SURVIVOR OF THAT ATTACK IS
12:20ALSO ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE
12:22FESTIVAL AND HAS HELPED PRODUCE
12:23THIS EXHIBITION.
12:24IN THE WAKE OF PROTESTS THIS
12:26WEEK OUTSIDE THE EXHIBIT
12:28INCLUDING PEOPLE CALLING FOR IT,
12:31HE GAVE ME A TOUR AND EXPLAINED
12:33THE IMPORTANCE OF REMEMBERING.
12:35>> ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL
12:36PARTS OF THIS EXHIBIT ARE JUST
12:38THE BELONGINGS THAT NO ONE CAME
12:41TO CLAIM FROM HATS AND BAGS, AS
12:44YOU SEE HERE, SOCCER BALLS,
12:48WATER BOTTLES TO CLOTHING ITEMS.
12:52AND THEN ULTIMATELY THE SHOES.
12:55I THINK FOR SO MANY PEOPLE, IT'S
12:58VERY REMINISCENT OF WHAT THEY
13:00SEE AT THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM AND
13:03JUST IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF THE
13:06SCOPE OF WHAT WAS LOST THAT DAY.
13:09HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT?
13:15>> WELL, EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE
13:17HERE FROM ALL THE BELONGINGS AND
13:19THE TENTS AND THE CHAIRS AND
13:23WITH THE HELP OF THE POLICE, WE
13:25MANAGED TO GET ALL OF THESE
13:30BELONGINGS.
13:30AND WHEN YOU SEE THE SHOES, IT'S
13:33CLEAR.
13:34IT'S REMINDING US EXACTLY WHAT
13:37HAPPENED TO US 100 YEARS AGO AT
13:42THE HOLOCAUST.
13:45AND PEOPLE WERE RUNNING AWAY AND
13:47LEFT EVERYTHING BEHIND, EVEN THE
13:49SHOES.
13:50AND I WAS ONE OF THE LAST PEOPLE
13:52TO BE IN THIS AREA.
13:54AND WE SAW THE TENTS BROKEN AND
13:56WE SAW THEIR BELONGINGS AND
13:58BAGS.
13:59I WAS ASKING MYSELF HOW COULD
14:00SOMEONE RUN AWAY WITHOUT THEIR
14:02BAG?
14:03BUT WHEN TERRORISTS ARE SHOOTING
14:05AT YOU, YOU JUST LEAVE
14:07EVERYTHING BEHIND.
14:07>> HOW MANY OF THE SURVIVORS
14:09HAVE BEEN HERE?
14:10>> WE HAD OVER 50 OF THE
14:13SURVIVORS COMING HERE AND BEING
14:15PART OF THE TEAM AND TELLING THE
14:17STORY.
14:18>> AND YOU REALLY ENCOMPASS A
14:22MULTISENSORY FEELING AND EXHIBIT
14:23HERE.
14:23>> THIS IS EXACTLY THE FEELING
14:25THAT WE WANTED TO GIVE EVERYONE
14:27THAT GOES THROUGH THIS JOURNEY,
14:29THE FEEL AND THE SMELL.
14:31AND WE ALSO EXPLAIN EVERYONE
14:33THAT IS ENTERING THIS
14:35EXHIBITION, IT IS NOT LIKE A
14:36MUSEUM WHERE YOU CANNOT TOUCH
14:38ANYTHING.
14:39YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TOUCH THE
14:40TENTS AND THEN THE BELONGINGS TO
14:42GET THE SENSE OF -- OF WHAT WE
14:45WENT THROUGH.
14:46>> AND THIS IS THE WALL HONORING
14:48ALL THE VICTIMS.
14:50>> YEAH.
14:51>> HOW MANY IN TOTAL?
14:56>> 401, INCLUDING THE SECURITY
15:03GUARDS.
15:03I KNOW TOO MANY FACES HERE.
15:05THIS WAS A REALLY GOOD FRIEND OF
15:10MINE.
15:14>> AND I KNOW, WHERE WAS HE?
15:16I JUST SAW HIM.
15:17THIS IS A REAL HERO.
15:19>> HE'S A HERO.
15:20HIS PARENTS WERE ALSO HERE IN
15:22THE FIRST TWO WEEKS.
15:24>> HOW ARE YOU FEELING TODAY?
15:28PHYSICALLY.
15:28>> WELL, PHYSICALLY IT'S GETTING
15:32BETTER EVERY DAY.
15:33I HAVE BEEN WORKING REALLY HARD
15:35ON RECOVERING.
15:37I WAS SHOT IN BOTH OF MY LEGS.
15:40AND MY RIGHT LEG WAS PARALYZED
15:42FOR A FEW WEEKS.
15:43MY MISSION WAS ALWAYS LIKE TO
15:45GET BETTER AS FAST AS I CAN
15:47BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER WAS BORN
15:48FOUR WEEKS AFTER.
15:49>> YOU WERE ONE OF THE FOUNDERS
15:51OF THE NOVA FESTIVAL.
15:53YOU WERE THERE ON OCTOBER 7th.
15:56WE'RE SADLY OVER 350 PARTY
15:58GOERS, CONCERT GOERS, MUSIC
16:01ATTENDEES LOST THEIR LIVES OR
16:04WERE SLAUGHTERED.
16:05YOU ARE ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES TO
16:07BE ALIVE.
16:08WALK US THROUGH THAT DAY.
16:11>> WELL, 6:29 IS WHEN IT
16:15STARTED.
16:15AND I REMEMBER THE FIRST MOMENT
16:17WE WERE LOOKING AT THE SKY, AND
16:21IT WAS LIKE HUNDREDS OF ROCKETS.
16:25AND THE FIRST FEELING WAS, OKAY,
16:28I WAS STANDING NEXT TO ME WAS
16:30ANOTHER PRODUCER STANDING NEXT
16:32TO ME.
16:32AND WE WERE LOOKING AT EACH
16:34OTHER.
16:35AND WE DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE
16:37THAT IT'S HAPPENING, THAT IT'S
16:39LIKE THIS FEELING OF HOPE THAT,
16:41OKAY, WE HAVE THE IRON DOME.
16:44UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN YOU LIVE IN
16:45ISRAEL, YOU KNOW ROCKETS.
16:47AND I'M TELLING HIM, WE HAVE
16:49IRON DOME, NO?
16:51THEY WILL NOT SHUT US DOWN.
16:53>> YOU WANTED THE CONCERT TO
16:55STILL GO ON.
16:56YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE
16:57AND THE MAGNITUDE OF THE ATTACK.
16:59>> WE HAD NO IDEA.
17:00WE HAD NO IDEA.
17:01AROUND 8:00 IN THE MORNING, THIS
17:03IS WHEN -- THIS IS WHEN, YEAH,
17:05THIS IS WHEN THE FIRST TIME WE
17:07UNDERSTOOD, OKAY, IT'S REAL.
17:11WE SAW THEM COMING WITH THE
17:12PICKUP TRUCKS.
17:13>> THE HAMAS TERRORISTS, YEAH.
17:15>> AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT
17:17THEY'RE SURROUNDING US AND THEY
17:19CAME WITH THE PICKUP TRUCKS AND
17:20HEAVY MACHINE GUNS.
17:21AND THEN THEY START SHOOTING
17:22INTO THE CROWD.
17:23THE BULLETS ARE HITTING NEXT TO
17:25US, AND YOU CAN -- YOU CAN HEAR
17:27THEM.
17:28YOU CAN FEEL THEM GOING NEXT TO
17:29YOUR HEAD.
17:30AND, SO, THIS IS THE FIRST
17:31MOMENT WHERE WE SAID, OKAY, THIS
17:34IS REAL.
17:35>> HOW LONG AFTER THE ROCKETS
17:37STARTED WERE YOU SHOT?
17:39HOW MANY HOURS LATER?
17:41>> I WAS SHOT AT AROUND A LITTLE
17:43BIT BEFORE 10:00 IN THE MORNING,
17:47SO IT WAS ABOUT THREE AND A HALF
17:49HOURS.
17:49>> AND HOW LONG UNTIL YOU WERE
17:52RESCUED?
17:52>> ANOTHER FOUR HOURS.
17:53AFTER I GOT SHOT, WE MANAGED
17:55TO -- I DON'T KNOW HOW, BUT WE
17:57MANAGED TO ESCAPE THE TERRORISTS
17:59THREE TIMES BECAUSE THEY SHOT US
18:00AND THEN THEY SHOT US AGAIN.
18:02>> AND THIS EXHIBIT NOW, WHICH
18:05HAS EXTENDED ITS STAY TWICE IN
18:08NEW YORK CITY WAS INITIALLY
18:10LITERALLY A LOST AND FOUND FOR
18:12THOSE SURVIVORS, FOR THOSE
18:14FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE LOVED ONES
18:16TO COME AND CLAIM THEIR
18:20CLOTHING, THEIR BELONGINGS.
18:21HOW DID THAT EVOLVE INTO WHAT IT
18:23IS TODAY?
18:26>> WE RECREATED THE FESTIVAL,
18:29THE MAIN STAGE OF THE FESTIVAL
18:30IN TEL AVIV.
18:32THE DEAL WAS FOR THE MEMORIAL.
18:34AND IT EVOLVED TO, AGAIN, FOR
18:36THE MEMORIAL.
18:37AND ONCE WE OPENED THE DOORS IN
18:40TEL AVIV, WE UNDERSTOOD IF AFTER
18:41A FEW DAYS THAT IT'S NOT ONLY
18:43FOR THE MEMORIAL.
18:45WE HAVE SUCH A STRONG TOOL IN
18:47OUR HANDS TO SHOW THE WORLD WHAT
18:50HAPPENED.
18:51THERE IS SO MUCH DENIAL ON
18:52SOCIAL MEDIA AND SO MUCH HATE.
18:54>> DID THAT DENIAL AND HATE FOR
18:56MUSIC LOVERS WHO WERE SIMPLY
18:58COMING TO A PEACEFUL CONCERT,
19:00DID THAT -- DID THAT SURPRISE
19:04YOU?
19:05>> YES, YES.
19:08IT SURPRISES ME BECAUSE A MUSIC
19:11FESTIVAL, THE DANCE FLOOR IS
19:12SUPPOSED TO BE THE SAFEST PLACE
19:13ON EARTH.
19:15IT IS THE PLACE WITH SO MUCH
19:16JOY.
19:17AND EVERYONE THAT COMES THERE
19:18CAN BE WHOEVER THEY WANT TO BE.
19:19IT IS A PLACE OF LOVE AND
19:22FREEDOM AND PEACE.
19:23AND WE WERE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE
19:25DIDN'T GET THE SUPPORT OF THE
19:28MUSIC INDUSTRY, OF EVEN THE --
19:30WE ARE PART OF THE GLOBAL TRANS
19:33MUSIC COMMUNITY.
19:36AND EVEN FROM THE MAJOR TRANS
19:39MUSIC FESTIVALS, THEY DIDN'T
19:40SUPPORT US.
19:41AND IT IS DISAPPOINTING BECAUSE
19:43THIS EXHIBITION, THIS FESTIVAL
19:45HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION
19:47OR POLITICS.
19:48BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT NO
19:50MATTER WHERE YOU -- WHEN YOU ARE
19:51ON THE DANCE FLOOR AND WE LISTEN
19:53TO THE SAME MUSIC, WE ARE THE
19:55SAME.
19:55>> WHY DO YOU THINK THAT SILENCE
19:57EXISTS, THAT LACK OF SUPPORT?
19:59>> I WISH I COULD ANSWER THIS.
20:01I WISH I HAD AN ANSWER FOR THIS.
20:04>> EARLIER THIS WEEK, THERE WERE
20:06MASS PROTESTS RIGHT OUTSIDE THIS
20:08EXHIBIT HERE ON WALL STREET.
20:10SOME OF JUST THE UNADULTERATED
20:14ANTI-SEMITISM WAS QUITE
20:17SHOCKING.
20:17PEOPLE WERE CHANTING ISRAEL GO
20:19TO HELL.
20:20IN ONE VIDEO, A MAN DECLARES, I
20:23WISH HITLER WAS STILL HERE.
20:24HE WOULD HAVE WIPED YOU JEWISH
20:27PEOPLE ALL OUT.
20:28SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE
20:30SPOKEN OUT AGAINST.
20:36THE MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY
20:37CALLED IT DESPICABLE.
20:38WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND
20:39WHEN YOU HEARD THAT?
20:40>> I'M NOT SURPRISED THEY CAME
20:43HERE TO DEMONSTRATE BECAUSE I
20:45HAVE BEEN HERE IN NEW YORK FOR
20:47THE PAST TWO MONTHS.
20:48I HEAR THE NEWS AND SEE THE
20:50DEMONSTRATIONS AND COLLEGES AND
20:51WHAT'S GOING ON ALL OVER THIS
20:54UNITED STATES, AND THERE IS SO
20:56MUCH LACK OF EDUCATION AND --
21:00AND -- AND I FEEL -- SOMETIMES I
21:03FEEL SORRY FOR THEM BECAUSE WHEN
21:06YOU ASK SOMEONE A QUESTION,
21:07WHERE IS ISRAEL, THEY DON'T EVEN
21:10KNOW WHERE ISRAEL IS.
21:11BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN TALKING TO
21:12SOME PROTESTERS BEFORE.
21:14THERE WERE A GROUP OF FIVE OR A
21:15GROUP OF TWO IN THE LAST FEW
21:17WEEKS.
21:18WE APPROACHED THEM AND TOLD
21:19THEM, LISTEN, COME AND LOOK FOR
21:21YOURSELF, COME LOOK INSIDE AT
21:22WHAT YOU ARE PROTESTING AGAINST.
21:26AND THERE IS NO INTEREST OF
21:28COMMUNICATION FROM THEIR SIDE.
21:32AND -- AND IT BREAKS MY HEART
21:38THAT THERE IS SO MUCH HATE OUT
21:39THERE BECAUSE WE ARE EXACTLY THE
21:41OPPOSITE.
21:41I SAY WE ARE THE FESTIVAL
21:44PRODUCERS AND THE OVER AND OVER
21:45FOUNDERS, BUT ALSO AS AN ISRAELI
21:47AND AS A JEW, WE DON'T HATE.
21:50WE DON'T WANT THIS HATE.
21:51WE DON'T HATE BACK.
21:52AND --
21:53>> WE'RE NOW OVER EIGHT MONTHS
21:55INTO THIS HORRIFIC WAR.
21:57THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH TRAGEDY
22:00AND INNOCENT LIFE LOST.
22:04OBVIOUSLY IN ISRAEL AND
22:05SUBSEQUENTLY IN GAZA AMONGST
22:07CIVILIANS THERE.
22:08I'M JUST WONDERING FOR YOU AS
22:09SOMEONE WHO EMBRACES PEACE, HOW
22:15HAVE THE PAST EIGHT MONTHS BEEN
22:17FOR YOU?
22:18>> WELL, WE'RE DEALING WITH SO
22:20MUCH IN THE LAST EIGHT MONTHS
22:22SINCE OCTOBER 7th.
22:25AND I ALMOST GOT MURDERED.
22:26WE FOCUS ON THE GOOD.
22:27WE FOCUS ON THE LIGHT.
22:29IT IS NOT EASY TO LIVE IN
22:30ISRAEL.
22:31IT IS NOT EASY THAT YOU ARE
22:33HEARING THE NEWS EVERY FEW DAYS.
22:35MOST SOLDIERS THAT HAVE BEEN
22:36KILLED OR PALESTINIANS THAT DIED
22:39OUT OF THE CONSEQUENCES.
22:40AND THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT.
22:45AND, WELL, WE ARE NOT
22:47POLITICIANS OR ANYTHING, BUT
22:48IT'S EASY.
22:50GIVE BACK THE HOSTAGES, AND IT
22:52WILL BE OVER.
22:52>> FOUR OF THEM, AS YOU KNOW,
22:56WERE THANKFULLY RESCUED ALIVE
23:00THIS PAST WEEKEND.
23:02AND THEY WERE NOVA MUSIC FANS.
23:04THEY WERE ATTENDING THE NOVA
23:07MUSIC FESTIVAL.
23:08AND, YET, YOU ALSO HEAR FROM TOP
23:12MILITARY OFFICIALS THAT THERE IS
23:13NO WAY THEY CAN REPLICATE THESE
23:16TYPES OF HOSTAGE RESCUES.
23:18HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR YOU THAT
23:21AN END TO THIS WAR COME, THAT A
23:24CEASE-FIRE DEAL BE REACHED?
23:25>> WELL, I CAN YOU LAST SATURDAY
23:29WHEN WE GOT THE NEWS OF THE FOUR
23:30HOSTAGES, WELL, I WAS SURPRISED
23:32THAT THE FEELING THAT WENT
23:33THROUGH MY BODY.
23:36AND I WAS, LIKE THE WHOLE
23:37COUNTRY WAS CRYING AND SO
23:39EMOTIONAL AND SO HAPPY THAT THEY
23:41CAME BACK.
23:44AND THEN YOU HAVE THESE TALKS,
23:46WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH IN
23:48THE PAST EIGHT MONTHS.
23:49IT'S UNTHINKABLE.
23:50AND, OF COURSE, WE WANT THE WAR
23:52AND THE CEASE-FIRE TO HAPPEN AS
23:54FAST AND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
23:56IT HELPS NO ONE, THIS WAR.
23:58>> CAN'T PUT TO WORDS THE
23:59EMOTIONS YOU FEEL WHEN YOU
24:01WALK-THROUGH THIS.
24:02YOU REALLY REPLICATED THAT NIGHT
24:03AT THE FESTIVAL.
24:05IT IS REALLY BREATHTAKING AND
24:07SOME OF THE MOST HORRIFIC WAYS
24:09IMAGINABLE.
24:10AND, FINALLY, YOU END UP HERE IN
24:12WHAT YOU CALL THE HEALING ROOM.
24:14WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO
24:16END THIS TOUR ON A POSITIVE
24:18NOTE?
24:19>> IT'S BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF
24:21OUR JOURNEY.
24:23AND THE EXHIBITION IS TELLING
24:24OUR STORY.
24:26IT'S FROM THE LIGHT TO THE
24:27DARKNESS AND THEN TO THE LIGHT
24:28AGAIN.
24:29AND THIS IS WHAT THIS HEALING
24:31ROOM IS ALL ABOUT.
24:32AND THE DAY AFTER, LIKE I
24:34MENTIONED, WE OPEN OUR HEALING
24:36FACILITY.
24:36AND SINCE THEN, WE OPEN THE
24:39FOUNDATION.
24:39AND THAT IS DEALING WITH THE
24:42SURVIVORS, WITH THE FAMILIES OF
24:44THE VICTIMS AND -- AND THIS
24:46BECAME OUR PURPOSE IN LIFE RIGHT
24:49NOW.
24:49AND WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING IN
24:52OUR POWER TO HEAL OUR COMMUNITY
24:55AND THE SENTENCE.
24:56WE WILL DANCE AGAIN.
24:58I PROMISE YOU THAT WE WILL DANCE
25:00AGAIN.
25:00>> WE SHOULD NOTE THE EXHIBITION
25:01HAS NOW BEEN EXTENDED UNTIL JUNE
25:0422nd IN NEW YORK AND IS GOING TO
25:07LOS ANGELES NEXT.
25:08>>> WELL, WE TURN TO INDIA NOW
25:11WHERE THE PRIME MINISTER IS
25:12COMING TO TERMS WITH HIS SHOCK
25:14ELECTION RESULT, HAVING LOST HIS
25:16MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT.
25:17A RIVAL FOR A DECADE, HE'S BEEN
25:21FORCED INTO A COALITION WITH
25:23REGIONAL PARTIES OPPOSED TO THE
25:26CASTE SYSTEM THAT HAS FOR
25:28CENTURIES ALLOWED FOR
25:30DISCRIMINATION.
25:31KNOWN AS UNTOUCHABLES, THE
25:32LOWEST AND MOST OPPRESSED
25:34DECIDED MODI HAD NOT DONE ENOUGH
25:36TO EASE THEIR POVERTY-STRICKEN
25:38LIVES.
25:38TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW BAD
25:40THINGS ARE FOR THEM, WE TURN TO
25:43CHRISTIAN'S REPORT FROM 25 YEARS
25:44AGO, WHEN THE SEEDS OF THIS
25:45POLITICAL AWAKENING WERE SEWN.
25:47A WARNING, SOME OF THIS REPORT
25:50IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO WATCH.
25:52>> SOMETIMES THE SMALLEST DETAIL
25:54CAN REVEAL THE WHOLE PICTURE.
25:56THESE UNTOUCHABLE VILLAGES ARE
25:58TAKING THEIR SHOES OFF.
25:59NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, BUT
26:02BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO.
26:04THEY'RE ABOUT TO PASS THEIR
26:06UPPER CASTE NEIGHBORS, SITTING
26:08HERE IN THE SHADE.
26:09IT IS A DAILY RITUAL OF PETTY
26:12HUMILIATION.
26:13THE UNTOUCHABLES CAN ONLY WEAR
26:15THEIR SHOES AGAIN WHEN THEY
26:16REACH THEIR OWN PART OF TOWN.
26:19WHY ARE YOU GUYS ALL TAKING OFF
26:21YOUR SHOES AND PUTTING THEM BACK
26:22ON AGAIN?
26:23>> IF WE DON'T TAKE OUR SHOES
26:25OFF, WE WILL BE FIRED FROM OUR
26:28JOBS.
26:28WE'D LIKE TO STAND UP TO THEM,
26:30BUT WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE A
26:31CHANCE.
26:31>> HAVE YOU EVER BEEN PUNISHED
26:34FOR ANYTHING HERE?
26:35>> THEY HAVE PUNISHED US SEVERAL
26:39TIMES.
26:40WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR FEET TWO
26:43OR THREE TIMES.
26:45>> YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR
26:47FEET?
26:47>> WE HAVE TO LIE ON THE GROUND
26:50AND BEG FORGIVENESS.
26:51>> OH, MY GOODNESS.
26:52>> AND THE DISCRIMINATION
26:55CONTINUES AT PRAYER.
26:57UNTOUCHABLES AREN'T ALLOWED TO
27:00ENTER THE HINDU TEMPLE IN THIS
27:02VILLAGE, SO THE PRIEST BLESSES
27:05THEM OUTSIDE.
27:06IN TEA HOUSES ALL OVER INDIA,
27:09UNTOUCHABLES HAVE TO DRINK FROM
27:13SEPARATE GLASSES.
27:14AND THEY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL
27:15SOMEONE COMES TO SERVE THEM
27:19OUTSIDE.
27:20EVEN ACCESS TO CLEAN WATER IS
27:22DETERMINED ACCORDING TO CASTE.
27:25UNTOUCHABLES CAN'T USE THIS
27:27PUBLIC WELL BECAUSE EVEN THEIR
27:29TOUCH WOULD POLLUTE THE WATER,
27:30SAYS THIS UPPER CASTE VILLAGER.
27:33>> THESE CUSTOMS HAVE BEEN
27:35PRACTICED FOREVER.
27:36AND IF THE GOVERNMENT PASSED NEW
27:37LAWS AGAINST IT, NOTHING WOULD
27:41CHANGE.
27:42AND I PERSONAL LY DON'T BELIEVE
27:43IT SHOULD.
27:44>> THIS IS WHERE AN UNTOUCHABLE
27:46WOMAN WAS FORCED TO GET HER
27:48WATER, A MUDDY POND POLLUTED BY
27:53ANIMAL FECES.
27:54HER ENCOUNTER WITH A PIG PROVED
27:56JUST HOW DIRTY THIS WATER IS.
27:58DO A LOT OF PEOPLE GET SICK FROM
28:01DRINKING THE BAD WATER?
28:04>> YES.
28:05AND WHEN OUR CHILDREN BECAME
28:06SICK, THE DOCTORS BLAMED US,
28:08SAYING YOU PEOPLE ARE UNCLEAN.
28:12>> AFTER ENDURING YEARS OF THIS
28:14KIND OF DISCRIMINATION, SHE AND
28:17HER FRIENDS TOOK UP THE FIGHT.
28:19IT BEGAN WITH A SMALL ACT OF
28:22DEFIANCE.
28:22ONE DAY, THEY DECIDED TO TAKE
28:25CLEAN WATER FROM THE PUBLIC
28:27WELL.
28:27BUT THEY WERE STOPPED BY
28:29INFURIATED UPPER CASTE VILLAGERS
28:32AND EVEN WORSE THEIR OWN
28:33HUSBANDS WERE TOO AFRAID TO
28:37SUPPORT THEIR CAUSE.
28:37>> ALL THE WOMEN IN THE VILLAGE,
28:39WE DECIDED THAT IF OUR MEN
28:41DIDN'T HELP US GET CLEAN WATER,
28:43WE WOULDN'T COOK FOR THEM.
28:44SO FOUR DAYS LATER, THEY JOINED
28:48OUR FIGHT.
28:49>> SHE AND HER FRIENDS CREATED
28:52SUCH AN UPROAR THAT EVENTUALLY
28:54THE UPPER CASTE IN THIS VILLAGE
28:57WERE FORCED TO BACK DOWN.
28:59>> NOW WE HAVE CLEAN WATER, AND
29:02WATER IS LIFE.
29:13♪
29:16>> THE CASTE SYSTEM IS AS OLD AS
29:19THE STONES THAT BUILD THIS
29:22TEMPLE.
29:23INDIA'S SEGREGATION IS CEMENTED
29:24IN NEARLY 3,000 YEARS OF
29:29RELIGION, NOT LAW.
29:30>> IT IS ONE OF THE MOST
29:31COMPLICATED, SOPHISTICATED
29:34SYSTEMS OF SOCIAL HIERARCHY AND
29:36OPPRESSION THAT HUMAN BEINGS
29:37HAVE EVER DEVISED.
29:39>> THIS PROFESSOR TEACHES
29:41POLITICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
29:43LONDON.
29:43HE'S THE AUTHOR OF AN ACCLAIMED
29:46BOOK ON CONTEMPORARY INDIA AND
29:48THE COMPLEX LEGACY OF THE CASTE
29:50SYSTEM.
29:51IT IS A SYSTEM THAT RANKS EVERY
29:54HINDU FROM THE HIGHEST TO THE
29:56LOWEST ACCORDING TO THE WORK
29:58THEY AND THEIR CASTE PERFORM.
30:01>> PURITY IS AN EXTREMELY
30:03IMPORTANT FACET OF RELIGIOUS
30:07OBSERVANCE.
30:07FOR EXAMPLE, THE USE OF FIRE,
30:08WHICH IS VERY COMMON IN HINDU
30:11RITUALS OR THE USE OF WATER.
30:13THERE IS A VERY STRONG SENSE OF
30:14CERTAIN OBJECTS, CERTAIN THINGS
30:18BEING TABOO, THAT YOU DON'T COME
30:20INTO CONTACT WITH THEM.
30:22>> FOR INSTANCE, THE DEAD.
30:25TRADITIONALLY, IT'S THE
30:26UNTOUCHABLES WHO PREPARE THE
30:30CORPSES FOR CREMATION.
30:31>> THEY WERE THOSE CASTES THAT
30:34PERFORMED THE WORK THAT NO ONE
30:36ELSE IN SOCIETY WOULD DO, SUCH
30:38AS DEALING WITH THE BODIES OF
30:40THE DEAD, ET CETERA.
30:41THIS WAS SEEN AS WORK THAT WAS
30:47IMPURE.
30:48>> THE UNTOUCHABLES ARE
30:51CONSIDERED SO UNCLEAN THAT
30:53TRADITIONALLY, NOT EVEN THEIR
30:54SHADOWS WERE SUPPOSED TO DEFILE
30:56THESE TEMPLES.
30:57AND TODAY THEY ARE STILL
30:59RELEGATED TO THE VERY WORST THAT
31:01LIFE HAS TO OFFER.
31:04LIKE MARIANAMA.
31:06SHE HAS BEEN USING HER BARE
31:08HANDS TO CLEAN PUBLIC TOILETS
31:10FOR THE PAST 19 YEARS.
31:12>> THEY LOOK DOWN AT ME, AND IT
31:16HURTS MY SOUL.
31:17>> HER FAMILY HAS BEEN ASSIGNED
31:19THIS FILTHY JOB FOR GENERATIONS.
31:21AND FOR GENERATIONS, IT'S MADE
31:24THEM PHYSICALLY ILL.
31:25IN BIG CITIES, THEY MAY ESCAPE
31:27THE ABUSES THEY ENDURED IN THE
31:30SMALL VILLAGES, BUT OFTEN THEIR
31:32ONLY CHOICE WILL BE TO SETTLE IN
31:34SLUMS WHERE NO ONE ELSE WOULD
31:36EVEN THINK OF LIVING.
31:39HENRY IS A LOCAL HUMAN RIGHTS
31:41WORKER.
31:41>> OH, GOOD LORD.
31:43IS THIS THE TOILET RIVER?
31:45>> YOU SEE THE MAN WALKING
31:46ACROSS IT?
31:47>> YEAH.
31:47HE'S WALKING BASICALLY THROUGH
31:48AN OPEN SEWER.
31:50>> OPEN SEWER.
31:51>> KIDS ARE PLAYING IN THIS
31:54SEWER.
31:54>> THAT'S NORMAL.
31:55THAT'S NORMAL.
31:56THAT'S NORMAL HERE.
31:57>> THAT'S NORMAL FOR AN
31:58UNTOUCHABLE?
31:59>> YES.
32:01AND THESE ARE THE SAN TOIITARY
32:05WORKERS OF THE TOWN.
32:06FOR THE PEOPLE THAT CLEAN THE
32:08LATRINES AND THINGS.
32:08>> NOW, THAT -- THAT IS TRULY
32:12DISGUSTING, THE LATRINE
32:13BUSINESS.
32:14HOW PEOPLE CAN ACCEPT TO CLEAN
32:17PUBLIC TOILETS WITH THEIR HANDS
32:20IS BEYOND ME.
32:21>> AND INCREASINGLY, INDIA'S 200
32:24MILLION UNTOUCHABLES ARE
32:27RESISTING, THROUGH THE POWER OF
32:28THE BALLOT AND POLITICAL
32:30PROTEST.
32:30AND IT IS CHANGING THE FACE OF
32:33INDIA.
32:33>> CASTE IS A FORM OF SOCIAL
32:38IMPRISONMENT, IS BEGINNING TO
32:40BREAK DOWN, I THINK.
32:41IT'S BEGINNING TO BREAK DOWN.
32:42PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO ASSERT
32:44THEIR RIGHTS.
32:45THEY ARE BEGINNING TO SAY, WELL,
32:48LOOK, CONSTITUTIONALLY, THIS IS
32:50ILLEG
32:51ILLEGITIMATE.
32:51THESE ARE MY RIGHTS AS AN INDIAN
32:55CITIZEN.
32:56♪
32:56>> THEY ARE RIGHTS THAT WERE
32:59ENSHRINED IN INDIA'S
33:01CONSTITUTION, WHICH BANNED
33:02DISCRIMINATION AGAINST
33:04UNTOUCHABLES.
33:04PROGRESS HAS BEEN DIFFICULT, BUT
33:06NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME IN
33:08HISTORY, AN UNTOUCHABLE HAS
33:10MANAGED THROUGH HIS OWN EFFORTS
33:11TO BECOME PRESIDENT OF INDIA.
33:13THOUGH, THE OFFICE IS LARGELY
33:17SYMBOLIC.
33:17BUT IT'S THE LOCAL UNTOUCHABLE
33:21LEADERS LIKE THIS DOCTOR WHO ARE
33:23REALLY SHAKING UP THE SYSTEM, BY
33:24BUILDING A POLITICAL MOVEMENT ON
33:26CENTURIES OF PENT-UP ANGER.
33:30IS INDIA A DEMOCRACY FOR ALL?
33:31>> NO.
33:32IT IS A FAKE DEMOCRACY.
33:35WE ARE FIGHTING FOR OUR
33:38SELF-RESPECTS.
33:38>> SOME LOCAL OFFICIALS HAVE
33:40BEEN KILLED.
33:40ARE YOU NOT AFRAID?
33:43>> WE WERE TOLD THERE ARE SOME
33:44PEOPLE THAT ARE READY FOR THIS
33:47FIGHT.
33:47>> ALMOST EVERY TIME
33:49UNTOUCHABLES ASSERT THEIR
33:51RIGHTS, IT PROVOKES VIOLENCE IN
33:54THE CITIES AND ESPECIALLY IN THE
33:56COUNTRYSIDE WHERE UPPER CASTE
34:00LANDLORDS STILL REIGN OVER THEIR
34:05UNTOUCHABLE NEIGHBORS.
34:05THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THE
34:07VILLAGE OF BARTE ONE NIGHT.
34:09MORE THAN 200 UPPER CASTE MEN
34:12ARMED WITH GUNS AND KNIVES
34:14ATTACKED THIS VILLAGE.
34:15THEY WENT FROM HUT TO HUT,
34:17KILLING ANYONE THEY COULD FIND,
34:18EVEN CHILDREN.
34:19AND ALL THESE VILLAGERS HAD BEEN
34:23ASKING FOR WAS WHAT THEY
34:24CONSIDERED A FAIR WAGE.
34:26$1 WORTH OF RICE A DAY FOR THEIR
34:28WORK IN THE FIELDS.
34:29THIS IS WHAT THEY GOT FOR THEIR
34:32TROUBLE, UNSPEAKABLE HORROR.
34:33THE BODIES OF 58 VILLAGERS
34:39HAPHAZARDLY SPRAWLED WHERE THEIR
34:40KILLERS FOUND THEM.
34:41WHOLE FAMILIES WERE MURDERED,
34:44INCLUDING HER SON AND HIS WIFE.
34:46ONLY HER GRANDSON SURVIVED,
34:48HIDDEN IN HIS DEAD MOTHER'S
34:51DRESS.
34:52>> THERE WAS NO REASON TO KILL
34:53MY SON.
34:53HE NEVER ARGUED WITH ANYONE.
34:56LIKE ALL OF US, HE JUST WORKED
34:59IN THE FIELDS FOR HIS DAILY
35:01WAGE.
35:02>> A PITTANCE OF A WAGE PAID BY
35:04THE LANDLORDS WHO OWN THESE
35:08FIELDS AND WHO ARE NOW ACCUSED
35:10OF LEADING THE SLAUGHTER.
35:12THE UPPER CASTE VILLAGE PRIEST.
35:16>> WE NEVER START THE VIOLENCE.
35:21IT'S THE UNTOUCHABLES WHO PICK
35:24THE LIGHT.
35:24AND THE LANDLORDS JUST
35:27RETALIATE.
35:27>> SO IN THIS PART OF INDIA,
35:30UNTOUCHABLES ARE ARMING
35:31THEMSELVES.
35:31ONLY WOMEN ARE ALLOWED IN THIS
35:34MILITIA.
35:34THEY ARE BEING TRAINED TO SHOOT
35:36BECAUSE THEY ARE MOST AT RISK.
35:41>> NOBODY ELSE WILL PROTECT US.
35:43THAT'S WHY I CARRY MY OWN GUN.
35:46RECENTLY, A YOUNG GIRL WAS
35:48KIDNAPPED AND RAPED BY THE
35:50LAND
35:51LANDLORDS.
35:51THERE IS MORE VIOLENCE EVERY
35:52DAY, AND THE POLICE DON'T HELP
35:58US.
35:58>> THIS SISTER IS TRYING TO
36:00HELP, BUT SHE USES THE LAW.
36:02SHE'S AN ATTORNEY AND A CATHOLIC
36:04NUN WHO CHOOSES TO LIVE WITH AND
36:07DEFEND THE VERY LOWEST CASTES.
36:10WHEN YOU SEE UNTOUCHABLES, MEN
36:12OR WOMEN, CLEANING HUMAN
36:16EXCRIMINATE WITH THEIR HANDS,
36:18BEING FORCED TO DRINK FROM
36:20SEPARATE CUPS IN TEAROOMS,
36:21HAVING TO TAKE OFF THEIR SHOES
36:22WHEN THEY WALK PASSED AN UPPER
36:25CASTE, IS THERE A SENSE OF
36:27OUTRAGE?
36:27>> WELL, SURE.
36:29IT IS REALLY A CURSE ON
36:32HUMANITY.
36:32THE WHOLE CASTE SYSTEM.
36:34>> IS THERE ANY ESCAPE?
36:36>> IMPOSSIBLE.
36:38SEE, IN INDIA, EVERYONE KNOWS
36:42THEIR CASTE.
36:43>> SO NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU DO
36:45IN LIFE, YOU WILL ALWAYS BE
36:48CONSIDERED AN UNTOUCHABLE?
36:49>> YES.
36:49>> UNCLEAN?
36:51>> YES.
36:52>> AND LESS THAN HUMAN.
36:55>> RIGHT.
36:57>> THE UNTOUCHABLES' BURDEN HAS
37:00BEEN CARRIED FROM GENERATION TO
37:02GENERATION.
37:02NOW THE TOILET CLEANER PLEADS
37:05THAT IT NOT BE PASSED ON ANY
37:09FURTHER.
37:10>> ALL I'M BEGGING FOR IS THAT
37:12MY CHILDREN DON'T INHERIT THIS
37:14JOB.
37:14IT SHOULD END WITH ME.
37:16>> IT SHOULD END WITH ME.
37:18AN IMPORTANT REFLECTION BACK
37:19THERE FROM CHRISTIAN.
37:21WELL, NOW DECADES LATER, STILL
37:23FIGHTING FOR SELF-RESPECT.
37:26THE VOTE HELPED CHANGE THE FATE
37:28OF INDIA.
37:28TURNING TO OUR NEXT STORY, HOW
37:30WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT REVERTING
37:32BACK TO A LIFESTYLE OF THE LATE
37:3318th CENTURY?
37:34WELL, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT OUR
37:36NEXT GUEST, A.J. JACOBS DID, AS
37:39HE DOCUMENTS IN HIS NEW BOOK THE
37:41YEAR OF LIVING CONSTITUTIONALLY.
37:43ONE MAN'S HUMBLE QUEST TO FOLLOW
37:45THE CONSTITUTION'S ORIGINAL
37:48MEETING.
37:49HE JOINS US TO DISCUSS WHAT HE
37:51LEARNED FROM HIS EXPERIENCE.
37:52>> A.J. JACOBS, THANKS FOR
37:55JOINING US.
37:56YOUR NEW BOOK IS CALLED THE YEAR
37:58OF LIVING CONSTITUTIONALLY.
37:59ONE MAN'S HUMBLE QUEST TO FOLLOW
38:02THE CONSTITUTIONAL'S ORIGINAL
38:03MEANING.
38:04WHY DO THIS?
38:04WHY NOW?
38:05>> WELL, FIRST, THANKS FOR
38:08HAVING ME AND GOOD MARROW.
38:10I DECIDED TO DO THIS BECAUSE I
38:12WANTED TO EXPLORE WHAT THE
38:13CONSTITUTION ACTUALLY SAYS AND
38:16HOW SHOULD WE INTERPRET IT.
38:18AND AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW IN THE
38:22PAST COUPLE YEARS, THE SUPREME
38:23COURT HAS EMBRACED ON THE CALL
38:26ORIGINALISM, WHICH SAYS THE MOST
38:27IMPORTANT THING, WHEN
38:29INTERPRETING CONSTITUTION, IS
38:30WHAT DID IT MEAN WHEN IT WAS
38:32WRITTEN 230 YEARS AGO?
38:33>> OKAY.
38:34HOW DOES AN AUTHOR GET
38:36THEMSELVES INTO THE MIND SET OF
38:38THE WRITERS OF THE CONSTITUTION
38:40IN THE 1700s?
38:42>> WELL, I DID EVERYTHING
38:43FROM -- TO EXPRESS MY SECOND
38:45AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
38:46I BOAR A MUSKET AROUND NEW YORK
38:49CITY, AN 18th CENTURY MUSKET.
38:54AND I GOT SOME STRANGE LOOKS.
38:56>> WASN'T THERE A LAW THAT WENT
38:58UP TO THE COURTS ON WHETHER OR
38:59NOT IT WAS LEGAL FOR YOU TO BE
39:01CARRYING A FIREARM?
39:02>> IT IS A GRAY AREA.
39:03IT IS A BIT OF A GRAY AREA.
39:05LUCKILY I WASN'T ARRESTED.
39:07IN ADDITION TO THE MUSKET, I
39:08WANTED TO EXPRESS MY FIRST
39:10AMENDMENT RIGHTS, SO I GOT OFF
39:13SOCIAL MEDIA, AND I WROTE
39:15PAMPHLETS WITH A QUILL PEN.
39:16THE IDEA WAS TO GO BACK TO THE
39:18ORIGINS AND EXPRESS MY RIGHTS
39:20THE WAY THAT THEY WERE WRITTEN
39:22USING THE TECHNOLOGY AND MIND
39:24SET OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS.
39:26AND IT WAS FASCINATING.
39:29IT WAS AN ENTERTAINING AND
39:30FASCINATING YEAR, BUT IT HOPE IT
39:32HAD SERIOUS POINTS AS WELL.
39:33>> TELL ME, WERE YOU A
39:35CONSTITUTIONAL NERD BEFORE THIS?
39:36WERE YOU TRYING TO KIND OF LAY
39:38OUT AND PROVE A POINT IN THE
39:39FIRST PLACE?
39:40>> WELL, I -- I WAS ACTUALLY
39:45EMBARRASSING BY IGNORANT OF THE
39:47CONSTITUTION.
39:47I LEARNED THAT 60% OF AMERICANS
39:50HAVE NEVER READ THE CONSTITUTION
39:51FROM START TO FINISH.
39:53AND I WAS ONE OF THOSE 60%.
39:57BUT IT HAS SUCH A MASSIVE IMPACT
39:59ON HOW WE LIVE OUR LIVES WITH
40:02THE SUPREME COURT RULING ON
40:03WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND GAY RIGHTS
40:06AND GUN POLICY.
40:08I THOUGHT, I NEED TO UNDERSTAND
40:11THIS CONSTITUTION.
40:11SO I TALKED TO DOZENS OF ACTUAL
40:16CONSTITUTIONAL NERDS AND LAW
40:17SCHOLARS FROM ALL OVER THE
40:19POLITICAL SPECTRUM.
40:19BUT I ALSO WANTED TO LIVE IT.
40:22THAT'S WHAT I DID FOR A PREVIOUS
40:24BOOK THAT YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT
40:26A LONG TIME AGO, CALLED "THE
40:28YEAR OF LIVING BIBLICALLY."
40:35I FOUND IT HELPS ME TO
40:37UNDERSTAND AND GET IN THE MIND
40:38SET.
40:38SO THAT WAS PART OF THE GOAL AS
40:41WELL.
40:42>> OKAY.
40:42SO WHAT WERE, I GUESS, THE PARTS
40:46OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT LEAPT
40:47OUT AT YOU IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH
40:50THEY HAD CHANGED IN HOW WE LIVE
40:53WITH THEM TODAY VERSUS HOW THE
40:57AUTHORS INTENDED THEM TO BE AT
40:59THE TIME?
40:59>> SUCH A GREAT QUESTION.
41:01AND THAT'S SORT OF THE HEART OF
41:02THE BOOK.
41:04AND IT WAS A SHOCKINGLY
41:05DIFFERENT TIME.
41:06THE PAST IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY.
41:08AND I'LL GIVE YOU JUST TWO QUICK
41:10EXAMPLES, THE FIRST AND THE
41:12SECOND AMENDMENT.
41:13SO THE FIRST AMENDMENT BACK THEN
41:16WAS MUCH MORE CONSTRAINED.
41:17I LOVE THE FIRST AMENDMENT, FREE
41:20SPEECH.
41:20I'M A BIG FAN.
41:21BUT I'M A FAN OF MODERN FREE
41:23SPEECH.
41:24BACK AT THE FOUNDING, IT WASN'T
41:27QUITE STALINIST RUSSIA, BUT
41:33THERE WERE LAWS.
41:35SEDITION WAS MUCH MORE CRACKED
41:36DOWN UPON.
41:36WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT
41:39ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE FIRST
41:41AMENDMENT BECAUSE THE FIRST
41:43AMENDMENT WOULD NOT ALLOW FOR
41:44POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS ON
41:47LIMITED POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS
41:48TO CANDIDATES.
41:48SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF ONE
41:51THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT.
41:51AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT, THE
41:54TECHNOLOGY WAS SO VASTLY
41:55DIFFERENT.
41:55I MEAN, I WENT AND I SHOT A
41:59MUSKET, AND IT IS 15 STEPS TO
42:01SHOOT A MUSKET.
42:02IT IS -- YOU GOT TO TAKE OUT THE
42:06RAMROD, POUR IN THE GUNPOWDER,
42:09PUT BACK THE RAMROD.
42:10IT IS LIKE BUILDING A DESK FROM
42:13IKEA.
42:13IT TAKES A WHILE.
42:14SO IT IS A VASTLY DIFFERENT
42:15MACHINE.
42:16THE QUESTION IS SHOULD THERE BE
42:18REGULATIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT
42:20BECAUSE IT IS SO DIFFERENT?
42:21AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING -- A
42:25MUSKET WOULD BE VERY HARD TO DO
42:26A MASS SHOOTING WITH A MUSKET
42:28BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG TO
42:30LOAD.
42:30>> THIS IDEA OF UPDATING WITH
42:31THE TIMES, WE SEE THAT TENSION
42:33BEING PLAYED OUT PRETTY MUCH
42:35EVERY TIME THERE IS A VERDICT
42:36FROM THE SUPREME COURT.
42:37WE HAVE PEOPLE ARGUING ON THE
42:40LOSING SIDE, THIS IS NOT WHAT
42:43THE CONSTITUTION WAS FOR.
42:43>> RIGHT.
42:44AND IT IS -- IT CONTINUES TO BE
42:46AT THE HEART OF THE CONTROVERSY.
42:50AND THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH
42:51SHOULD YOU UPDATE?
42:54EVEN ORIGINALISTS WOULD SAY, FOR
42:57INSTANCE, THAT THE LAW -- THE
43:00RULE AGAINST UNREASONABLE
43:02SEARCHES AND SEIZURES.
43:03ORIGINALLY THAT MEANT THE
43:06CONSTABLE BANGING DOWN THE DOOR
43:07TO SEARCH YOUR PAPERS.
43:09BUT NOW THEY SAY YES IT DOES
43:10APPLY TO THE INTERNET AND
43:13iPHONES.
43:13BUT IT IS INCONSISTENT.
43:15WHEN DO YOU UPDATE AND WHEN DO
43:17YOU NOT?
43:17SO A HARD CORE ORIGINALIST LIKE
43:20CLARENCE THOMAS WOULD SAY THAT
43:21THE 14th AMENDMENT, WHICH
43:24GUARANTEES EQUAL PROTECTION AND
43:25DUE PROCESS, WHEN THAT WAS
43:26WRITTEN AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, IT
43:28DID NOT APPLY TO GAY PEOPLE OR
43:30GAY MARRIAGE.
43:31SO HE WOULD ARGUE THAT DOES NOT
43:33COVER THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
43:36WHEREAS THOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE,
43:38OFTEN CALLED LIVING
43:44CONSTITUTIONALISTS SAY YOU HAVE
43:45TO UPDATE THE MORALS WITH THE
43:47TIMES.
43:48OVER TIME MORALS CHANGE AND GAY
43:49PEOPLE SHOULD BE PROTECTED BY
43:51THE 14th AMENDMENT.
43:54>> ONE OF THE CONCERNS YOU HAVE
43:54WITH THE SIDE THAT SAYS GO AHEAD
43:56AND INTERPRET THIS DOCUMENT AND
43:58KEEP EVOLVING IT IS WHERE DOES
44:01THAT SLIDE STOP?
44:02THE EXPERTS YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO,
44:04HOW DO THEY FIGURE OUT HOW TO
44:08MODIFY THAT LEVEL OF CHANGE SO
44:10IT'S STILL CONSISTENT TO WHAT
44:11SHOULD BE THE VALUES OF OUR
44:14COUNTRY.
44:14>> YEAH.
44:15IT IS -- THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE
44:17AND A TOUGH ONE.
44:18AND I DON'T HAVE A SIMPLE
44:19ANSWER.
44:20ONE -- ONE IDEA IS THAT THE
44:24FOUNDERS WOULD BE SHOCKED THAT
44:27THESE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES
44:27HAVE SO MUCH POWER.
44:30THAT WAS NOT THEIR VISION.
44:32MOST OF THEM, THEY THOUGHT THAT
44:35THE SUPREME COURT SHOULD WEIGH
44:35IN ON JUDICIAL REVIEW, BUT NOT
44:38WHAT'S CALLED JUDICIAL SUPREMACY
44:40WHERE THEY HAVE THE FINAL WORD.
44:42IN THE PAST, THE PRESIDENT AND
44:44CONGRESS WOULD ALSO WEIGH IN ON
44:49WHAT IS CONSTITUTIONAL.
44:50SO IN THAT CASE, YOU WOULDN'T
44:52HAVE THIS EXTREME POWER WITH
44:55JUST THESE NINE UNELECTED
44:57JUSTICES.
44:57AND I LIKE THAT.
44:59ANOTHER ISSUE IS THAT IT'S SO
45:02HARD TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION.
45:04THE FOUNDERS DID NOT ANTICIPATE
45:07IT WOULD BE THIS HARD TO CHANGE.
45:10THEY WANTED IT -- IT'S HARD TO
45:11CHANGE, BUT THEY DIDN'T SEE THIS
45:13STATIC TWO PARTY SYSTEM COMING,
45:15WHEN IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET 60%
45:17OR 66% OF THE CONGRESS TO AGREE
45:20ON THE COLOR OF THE SKY.
45:25THE KEY IS PULURALISM, WHICH ISA
45:26VERY FOUNDING FATHERS' IDEA.
45:29BALANCE THE MEANING WITH THE
45:31CONSEQUENCES, WITH THE
45:32LEGITIMACY OF THE SUPREME COURT
45:33AND THEIR REPUTATION.
45:35YOU HAVE ALL THESE FACTORS WHEN
45:36YOU MAKE A DECISION.
45:38>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU
45:39DID IN YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL YEAR
45:42OF LIFE, YOU HAVE GOT THE -- YOU
45:45EXERCISED YOUR RIGHT TO REDRESS
45:46THE PETITION.
45:47WHAT WERE YOU PETITIONS FOR?
45:48>> WELL, THIS WAS INTERESTING.
45:51PETITIONS, FIRST OF ALL, FIRST
45:52AMENDMENT RIGHT, THEY'RE OFTEN
45:55OVERLOOKED.
45:55I THOUGHT I NEED TO DO IT THE
45:56OLD WAY.
45:57I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT THE
46:02SLACKTSLACK
46:03WAY ON THE INTERNET.
46:03I GOT OUT A BIG ROLL OF PAPER
46:05AND HAD PEOPLE SIGN WITH A QUILL
46:07PEN.
46:07NOW, MY PETITION WAS BECAUSE I'M
46:11CONCERNED ABOUT THE PRESIDENT.
46:13BOTH DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN
46:14PRESIDENTS HAVE WAY TOO MUCH
46:15POWER.
46:16THE FOUNDERS WOULD BE SHOCKED BY
46:18THE WAR POWERS AND TRADE POWERS.
46:21SO I WENT BACK TO AN IDEA FROM
46:22THE FOUNDING FATHERS.
46:25DURING THE CONSTITUTIONAL
46:27CONVENTION, WHEN SOMEONE BROUGHT
46:28UP THE IDEA OF A SINGLE
46:30PRESIDENT, SEVERAL OF THE
46:31DELEGATES SAID, ARE YOU JESTING?
46:34THAT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA.
46:36WE JUST FOUGHT TO GET RID OF A
46:37KING.
46:38WHY WOULD WE WANT A SINGLE
46:40PRESIDENT?
46:41LET'S HAVE THREE PRESIDENTS.
46:42LET'S HAVE 12 PRESIDENTS.
46:44BEN FRANKLIN WANTED A COUNCIL OF
46:4612 PRESIDENTS.
46:47I THOUGHT, THIS IS AN
46:48INTERESTING IDEA.
46:49SO I BROUGHT A PETITION TO
46:52CONGRESS, TO SENATOR RON LIDEN
46:54IN WASHINGTON.
46:55I WAS TRYING MY HAT, MY COAT,
47:01SHOES, BUCKLES AND EVERYTHING.
47:02HE SAID HE WOULD CONSIDER IT,
47:04WHICH I THINK MEANT HE WOULD
47:06CONSIDER IT FOR FIVE SECONDS.
47:08BUT HE DID AGREE WITH MY THESIS
47:10THAT THE PRESIDENT IS TOO
47:12POWERFUL.
47:13WE HAVE IN THE FUTURE POSSIBLE
47:15PRESIDENTS WHO ARE GOING TO BE
47:17MORE AUTHORITARIAN.
47:18SO WE DO NEED TO CONSTRAIN THE
47:20PRESIDENT.
47:20I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THREE
47:23PRESIDENTS.
47:23I DON'T KNOW IF BIDEN, TRUMP AND
47:27RFK JR. COWORKING IN THE OVAL
47:29OFFICE IS A GREAT IDEA.
47:30BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO CONSTRAIN
47:32THE PRESIDENT THAT WE NEED TO
47:33LOOK INTO AND GIVE POWER BACK TO
47:35THE CONGRESS, WHICH IS WHAT THE
47:36FOUNDERS WANTED.
47:37>> YOU KNOW, YOU DID TAKE A
47:39COUPLE OF OPPORTUNITIES HERE TO
47:42TRY AND MAKE THIS EXPLORATION A
47:44LITTLE POSITIVE AND FUN.
47:46TELL US ABOUT ELECTION CAKES.
47:48>> WELL, THIS WAS MY FAVORITE
47:50PART OF THE BOOK.
47:51IT IS A THROUGH LINE OF THE
47:52BOOK.
47:52WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THE
47:5418th CENTURY VOTING, OF COURSE.
47:58IT WAS SEXIST AND RACIST AND --
48:00BUT THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF 18th
48:02CENTURY LIFE THAT ARE WORTH
48:04LOOKING AT AGAIN.
48:05AND ONE OF THEM IS THE IDEA THAT
48:09ELECTIONS OR THE PRIVILEGED FEW
48:11WHO WERE ALLOWED TO VOTE WERE
48:13FESTIVE.
48:13THEY WERE THIS NEW RIGHT THAT
48:14WAS AWE INSPIRED.
48:16SO IT WAS -- THERE WERE PARADES.
48:20THERE WAS MUSIC.
48:21THERE WAS A LOT OF RUM PUNCH.
48:24IT WASN'T QUITE COACHELLA OR
48:26BURNING MAN, BUT IT WAS EXCITING
48:27THIS ELECTION DAY.
48:28AND IT REMINDED PEOPLE OF THE
48:31AWESOME POWER OF DEMOCRACY.
48:33SO I THOUGHT, THIS IS LOVELY.
48:35LET'S RE -- I'LL TRY TO RESTART
48:38THIS APPRECIATION OF ELECTION
48:40DAY AS SOMETHING FESTIVE.
48:42AND ONE OF THE TRADITIONS WAS
48:44ELECTION CAKE.
48:45PEOPLE WOULD BAKE ELECTION
48:47CAKES, SOMETIMES HUGE, ONE
48:50RECIPE CALLS FOR 14 POUNDS OF
48:52BUTTER AND 10 POUNDS OF SUGAR.
48:53SO I DIDN'T DO THAT.
48:55BUT I MADE A BIG ELECTION CAKE.
48:56AND I WENT ON FACEBOOK, WHICH I
48:58KNOW IS NOT 18th CENTURY.
49:01ALTHOUGH, IT IS ONE OF THE OLDER
49:03PLATFORMS.
49:04AND I GOT PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER
49:06AMERICA TO CAKE ELECTION CAKES
49:08AND BRING THEM TO THE POLLS AND
49:10GIVE THEM OUT TO REMIND PEOPLE
49:13OUR CATCH PHRASE WAS DEMOCRACY
49:16WAS SWEET.
49:17AND I LOVE THAT BECAUSE IT WAS
49:18SUCH AN UNRELENTINGLY DECADENT
49:24TIME IN POLITICS TO HAVE THIS
49:25ONE MOMENT.
49:26THERE ARE EVENTS AND STUDIES
49:28THAT SAY HAVING A FESTIVE
49:30ELECTION DAY INCREASES VOTER
49:32TURNOUT.
49:34AUSTRALIA HAS SOMETHING CALLED
49:35THE DEMOCRACY SAUSAGE, WHERE
49:37THEY HAVE BIG BARBECUES.
49:39SO I LOVE THE ELECTION CAKE.
49:42IT'S NOT THE END.
49:43WE ALSO HAVE TO FIX
49:47GERRYMANDERING AND VOTER
49:49SUPPRESSION.
49:49BUT LET'S START WITH ELECTION
49:53CAKES AND GET PEOPLE EXCITED
49:55AGAIN ABOUT THE RIGHT TO VOTE.
49:56I'M DOING IT AGAIN IN NOVEMBER.
49:57>> WHAT DID THIS PROJECT TEACH
49:59YOU ABOUT YOURSELF, ESPECIALLY,
50:01YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD SO MANY
50:04DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS ON THIS
50:06PROGRAM ABOUT DIGITAL DETOXING
50:08AND SLOWING DOWN.
50:09I IMAGINE IT HAS TO DO SOMETHING
50:11TO YOUR BRAIN WHEN YOU ARE
50:13WRITING IN SUCH A SLOW FORMAT
50:14WITH A QUILL AND INK.
50:16>> EXACTLY.
50:17THAT WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITE
50:19PARTS, IS I WROTE MUCH OF THE
50:20BOOK WITH A QUILL.
50:23AND WHAT I FOUND IS IT CHANGED
50:26THE WAY I THOUGHT, WHICH WAS
50:28FASCINATING BECAUSE THERE WERE
50:30NO PINGS AND DINGS OR
50:32TEMPTATIONS FROM THE INTERNET.
50:34AND I COULD ACTUALLY FOCUS.
50:38AND I THINK THAT -- I DON'T
50:40THINK EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO BACK
50:42TO QUILLS, BUT I THINK WRITING
50:44AND THINKING OFFLINE IS SO
50:46CRUCIAL.
50:46AND IT ALLOWED ME TO, I THINK,
50:50SEE THE WORLD IN A MORE SUBTLE
50:52WAY.
50:52AND ONE OF THE BIG -- THE OTHER
50:55BIG TAKE AWAY FOR ME WAS THAT IT
50:59ALLOWED ME TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE
51:01A LITTLE MORE.
51:03I THINK WE ARE NOWADAYS SO STUCK
51:07IN OUR OPINIONS, SO UNWILLING TO
51:13LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE AND SEE THE
51:14OTHER SIDE.
51:15THIS IS NOT A PATRIOTIC WAY OF
51:18LOOKING AT THE WORLD.
51:19THE FOUNDERS WERE VERY
51:22COGNITIVELY FLEXIBLE.
51:23BEN FRANKLIN SAID THAT THE OLDER
51:24HE GETS, THE LESS CERTAIN HE IS
51:26OF HIS OPINIONS.
51:27>> AND WHAT'S THE RIPPLE EFFECT
51:30ON THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU, YOUR
51:32FAMILY THAT HAS TO LIVE WITH A
51:34GUY WHO'S, I DON'T KNOW, WRITING
51:36WITH A QUILL AND DOING, YOU
51:38KNOW, THINGS BY CANDLE LIGHT AND
51:40WAKING UP EARLY IN THE MORNING
51:41TRYING TO BE BACK IN THE 1700s?
51:44HOW DO YOUR KIDS FEEL ABOUT
51:46THAT?
51:47>> THEY ARE SPLIT.
51:48THERE IS -- ONE OF THEM ACTUALLY
51:50LIKES IT.
51:51THE OTHER TWO ARE SO
51:54EMBARRASSED, THEY WALKED 40 FEET
51:55IN FRONT OF ME.
51:56MY WIFE, PART OF IT SHE LIKES.
51:58SHE LIKES HISTORY.
51:59SHE DID NOT LIKE THE SMELL OF
52:02BEEF CANDLES, WHICH SMELLED LIKE
52:06ROTTEN MEATLOAF IN HER OPINION.
52:07ALSO, IF YOU ARE FOLLOWING 18th
52:10CENTURY LAW, IT IS VERY SEXIST.
52:12MARRIED WOMEN, FOR INSTANCE,
52:13WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SIGN
52:15CONTRACTS.
52:16MY WIFE OWNS AN EVENT BUSINESS
52:18WHERE SHE SIGNS SEVERAL
52:19CONTRACTS A DAY.
52:20I SAID, WELL, WHILE I'M DOING
52:21THIS EXPERIMENT, MAYBE I SHOULD
52:23TAKE OVER THE SIGNS.
52:24AT FIRST SHE SAID, GREAT, I HATE
52:27SIGNING THESE CONTRACTS.
52:28I WAS SO BAD AT IT, SHE FIRED ME
52:29AFTER AN HOUR.
52:31SO THAT DID NOT WORK OUT FOR
52:32EITHER OF US.
52:33>> YOU POINT OUT THAT THIS IS
52:35THE OLDEST CONSTITUTION AROUND.
52:38SO I WONDER WHAT SHOULD WE BE
52:40THINKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF, I
52:43GUESS, JUST SURVEYING THE
52:44LANDSCAPE AND SEEING WHAT'S OUT
52:46THERE, WHAT COULD BE BETTER, YOU
52:49KNOW, WHAT WE CAN DO RIGHT, WHAT
52:50CAN WE IMPROVE ON 2.0, 3.0.
52:55>> RIGHT.
52:56I LOVE THAT.
52:57I THINK IT IS FASCINATING
52:58BECAUSE OURS WAS THE FIRST
53:00MODERN CONSTITUTION.
53:01AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF DATA
53:03OF WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T.
53:05AND I THINK PART -- SOME
53:07AMERICANS THINK THAT IT'S ALMOST
53:10UNPATRIOTIC TO LOOK AT OTHER
53:11DEMOCRACIES AND HOW THEY HAVE
53:13STRUCTURED IT AND WHAT WORKS FOR
53:14THEM AND WHAT DOESN'T.
53:16OTHERS LIKE JUSTICE BRIAR, WHO
53:17RETIRED, HE WAS VERY INTERESTED
53:20IN HOW FAR DEMOCRACIES WORKED.
53:24AND I THINK I THINK AGREE WITH
53:26JUSTICE BRIAR.
53:27LET'S LOOK AT WHAT IS WORKING
53:28AND WHAT IS NOT.
53:29ONE THING THAT I DON'T THINK IS
53:30WORKING FOR US IS THE TWO-PARTY
53:33SYSTEM.
53:34AND I DON'T THINK THE FOUNDERS
53:35WANTED A TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.
53:38BUT YOU LOOK AT MANY EUROPEAN
53:40DEMOCRACIES, AND THEY HAVE SIX
53:41OR EIGHT PARTIES.
53:42THERE SEEMS TO BE A GOLDILOCKSS
53:47ZONE OF 4 TO 8 PARTIES IS THE
53:49BEST BECAUSE, YES, NOW WE HAVE
53:51SUCH POLARIZATION THAT IT'S SO
53:53HARD TO GET ANYTHING PASSED.
53:55WE WERE THE FIRST, AND WE COULD
53:57BE PROUD OF THAT.
53:58BUT WE'RE ALSO AT A DISADVANTAGE
54:00BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW.
54:01WE DIDN'T HAVE DATA ON WHAT
54:02WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T.
54:04>> ARE YOU CONCERNED FOR OUR
54:08DEMOCRACY IN 2024 TODAY AS WE'RE
54:10HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AFTER
54:12YOU HAVE ENGAGED IN THIS
54:15YEAR-LONG EXPERIMENT OF LIVING
54:17CONSTITUTIONALLY?
54:18>> WELL, YES.
54:20BUT I'M MORE OPTISTIC THAN I WAS
54:22WHEN I STARTED.
54:24PART OF THE HOME PROJECT WAS TO
54:25FIGURE OUT, CAN WE SAVE
54:27DEMOCRACY?
54:27BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM ENDANGERED
54:29AROUND THE WORLD.
54:31AND SEVERAL THINGS GAVE ME HOPE.
54:32I WILL JUST GIVE YOU TWO OF
54:34THEM.
54:35ONE IS JUST READING ABOUT THE
54:36HISTORY.
54:36THE -- THE FOUNDERS FACED
54:39UNBELIEVABLE ODDS THAT THEY WERE
54:40GOING AGAINST THE STRONGEST ARMY
54:42IN THE WORLD, THE BRITISH AND
54:44THAT THEY SOMEHOW WERE ABLE TO
54:47MAKE A BREAK AND BE INDEPENDENT.
54:57THEY'RE NOT INSURMOUNTABLE.
54:59THE SECOND PART IS THAT WE HAVE
55:00MADE PROGRESS.
55:01IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONSTITUTION
55:03ITSELF, YOU CAN SEE THE PROGRESS
55:05IN THE AMENDMENTS.
55:07SO BLACK PEOPLE GOT THE VOTE.
55:09WOMEN GOT THE VOTE.
55:11INDIGENOUS PEOPLE GOT THE VOTE.
55:1318-YEAR-OLDS GOT THE VOTE.
55:14SO WE ARE -- THE ARK DOES POINT
55:17TOWARDS JUSTICE, AND THERE IS
55:19BACKSLIDING, AND THERE IS -- IT
55:20IS NOT A STRAIGHT LINE.
55:23BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IF WE ROLL
55:25UP OUR SLEEVES, DEMOCRACY WON'T
55:27SAVE ITSELF.
55:28BUT I DO BELIEVE IF WE ROLL UP
55:30OUR SLEEVES AND MAKE SOME OF
55:32THESE REFORMS THAT DEMOCRACY CAN
55:34CONTINUE TO THRIVE.
55:35>> A.J. JACOBS, THANKS SO MUCH
55:37FOR JOINING US.
55:37>> THANK YOU.
55:39IT WAS A DELIGHT.
55:39>> THAT IS IT FOR YOU.
55:40THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING,
55:43AND GOOD-BYE FROM NEW YORK.
55:50♪