'I Just Wanna Get This Straight...': Jim Jordan Shocked By Judge Merchan Ruling At Trump Trial

4 months ago

At a House Judiciary Committee hearing held last week, Rep. Scott Fitzgerald (R-WI) and Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) spoke about New York District Attorney Alvin Bragg.

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00:00The gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized.

00:03Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for being here today, and I know we've been kind of going on.

00:08I'm trying not to rehash anything that's already been discussed, but,

00:12Commissioner Treanor, is the Manhattan District Attorney's Office charged with determining

00:18whether someone violated the Federal Elections Campaign Act or FECA?

00:24No, Congressman, that is exclusive jurisdiction of the Federal Election Commission and ultimately

00:28could be referred to the Department of Justice if it's found to be criminal.

00:31So certainly not the New York Supreme Court either, State Supreme Court?

00:36Absolutely not.

00:37No. So as you said, it's the Federal Elections Commission. Was President

00:43Trump's alleged payment via Michael Cohen to Stephanie Clifford referred to the FEC?

00:49We did have several complaints related to it.

00:53And what did the FEC decide with respect to that referral?

00:56Well, ultimately, we deadlocked on a decision related to it, but the real factor in making

01:02the determination was the fact that the Department of Justice asked us to abate those proceedings

01:07so that they could conduct an over-a-year-long criminal investigation, which they determined

01:12there was no criminality in, and then they sent it back to us, and it was statute of limitations

01:16barred.

01:17So did the Justice Department also decline to charge the former president for charges related

01:21to FECA?

01:22They did.

01:23Right. And so the two agencies that are charged by Congress to determine whether President

01:30Trump's payment constituted a violation of FECA found no violation and took no enforcement

01:37action. Is that correct?

01:39That is correct.

01:40All right. Thank you very much. Ms. Foley, you argued in a recent Wall Street Journal

01:45op-ed that Judge Murchin likely denied President Trump a meaningful opportunity to be heard

01:51by denying the testimony of former FEC Chairman Brad Smith. Can you please elaborate a little

01:57bit on that?

01:59Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of sort of misreporting on what happened here. Yes,

02:04Judge Murchin, as my colleague Mr. Eisen points out, did allow Brad Smith to testify, but

02:12the catch was he could not opine at all, either provide his opinion or any personal opinion

02:19or legal opinion regarding whether or not President Trump's actions had violated FECA,

02:25which was basically then he was useless, which is why President Trump didn't call him as

02:29a witness. So the whole point was President Trump wanted an expert witness to put before

02:34the jury to show the jury that what he had done did not, in fact, violate federal election

02:39law. And he was denied that opportunity. And that seems like a rather basic thing that

02:43he would have the opportunity to be heard on.

02:45Do you think there was a chance that he could have had success upon appeal?

02:50Will he have success on appeal of this? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I mean, the thing is that,

02:56you know, again, I agree with Norm on the fact that the bias issues are difficult to

03:03win because they get deferential standards of review. But the due process issue is a

03:10question of law. It gets de novo review. The appellate courts get to look at it fresh,

03:14with fresh eyes, no deference whatsoever. And more importantly, due process issues are

03:20issues that the Supreme Court can ultimately grant cert and hear.

03:24Right. So Judge Rashan also ruled that Michael Cohen's guilty plea for violating FECA

03:29was inadmissible at trial. Why do you think he made that ruling? I think we know.

03:37Well, because you can't basically taint one individual by the guilty conduct of another.

03:45Judge Rashan also ruled that D.A. Bragg could elicit testimony from Mr. Cohen about his guilty

03:49plea to impeach his credibility as a witness. D.A. Bragg then repeatedly made reference at trial

03:55in his office closing arguments to the jury about Cohen's FECA guilty plea. Did

04:03repeatedly subjecting the jury to this testimony essentially get around the judge's own ruling

04:08that Cohen's FECA guilty plea was inadmissible as substantive evidence?

04:14Yeah. I mean, that should have been rained in. That was clearly trying to, you know,

04:17taint one person through association with another who was guilty. They also did the same thing,

04:21I believe, with the CFO of Trump Organization. He made similar comments because he also entered

04:27a guilty plea. Weisselberg? Thank you. I yield back. Would the gentleman yield?

04:33Would the gentleman yield? I do. Thank you. So I just want to get this straight. The campaign

04:38finance expert wasn't allowed to testify about campaign finance? Yeah, exactly. And, you know,

04:44the way Judge Rashan tried to explain it is he said, well, you know, I'm the expert of the law.

04:48And OK, granted, that's why the judge is there. But Brad Smith wasn't allowed to talk about

04:54the very testimony we just got from Commissioner Treanor. Precisely. Well, we're going to give Brad

04:58Smith a chance to testify in front of this committee as well. We're going to let him tell

05:02the Congress and the country what he wasn't allowed to tell the court and the jury,

05:06because we think that's important. The gentleman from Wisconsin was right on target when he was

05:10asking that question.

'I Just Wanna Get This Straight...': Jim Jordan Shocked By Judge Merchan Ruling At Trump Trial

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