Taylor Kyles from CLNS Media is joined by Bobby Peters, author of "The 2021 Cleveland Browns Complete Offensive Manual", to discuss what Patriots OC Alex Van Pelt's time in Cleveland could tell us about New England's new-look scheme.
Patriots Daily is Powered by:
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
Patriots Daily is Powered by:
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - What's going on everyone?
00:19 Taylor Kyle's here for CNS Media
00:21 coming at you with another episode of Pat's Daily
00:23 brought to you by our good friends
00:24 at Game Time and Prize Fix.
00:26 Today, I'm super excited about this show.
00:28 We haven't gotten into the X's and O's
00:30 really deep in a minute.
00:32 We're gonna change that today
00:33 'cause I've got Bobby Peters.
00:35 Literally wrote the book on the Browns offense
00:37 back in 2021, has done an outstanding job,
00:40 not just with the Browns offense,
00:41 but with a bunch of the really impressive offense
00:43 throughout the NFL.
00:44 So if you wanna check out the Browns manual
00:46 or any of these other offenses,
00:48 I know he's come out with a couple of books
00:49 from last season's offenses.
00:50 So make sure you check those out in Amazon.
00:53 But without further ado, Bobby,
00:54 thank you so much for coming on the show, man.
00:56 How you doing?
00:57 - Pretty good, thanks for having me on.
00:59 - Thank you for being on, man.
01:00 All right, so before we get into the offense and everything,
01:03 I want people to understand your process
01:05 and how these books come together
01:06 because as soon as the Patriots
01:08 did end up signing Alex Van Pelk,
01:10 I'm like, all right, let me see if Bobby's got
01:12 anything on this guy so I can get some quick reading in
01:14 before I go into the film deep dive.
01:16 And you did, and it's always so impressive,
01:18 the detail and the depth you go into.
01:20 So break it down for the people.
01:22 How exactly did these books come together
01:23 and what does your process look like?
01:25 - So what I do for the complete offensive manuals,
01:27 think of it like as close to a playbook as you can get
01:32 from like breaking down film, right?
01:33 So like what I do is I take the entire season's worth
01:35 of film, I label each clip and I put it in a spreadsheet too
01:39 and that becomes my database for writing the book.
01:41 So I write the book, I group these plays
01:43 based on concept families.
01:44 I try to keep it as generic as I can.
01:46 I try to group them as generally or specifically
01:49 as I need to based on what I want to talk about
01:51 with each concept and how many times they call them too.
01:55 Right, like if I pick a concept that they called,
01:57 you know, say 50 times, I might try to break it up
01:59 into two or three smaller subcategories
02:00 to get more specific with the breakdowns.
02:03 So what I do then within each chapter or concept
02:06 is I will explain the play,
02:08 I'll draw up all the different variations
02:11 the team ran of it.
02:12 I'll chart the instances that they ran them
02:16 and then I'll kind of break down the stats for you
02:18 in like average yards per play on like first down,
02:20 third down conversion rates, red zone conversion rates,
02:22 that kind of stuff.
02:23 And then I'll talk about the play.
02:24 I'll explain like what it is,
02:25 why offense is included in their playbooks,
02:27 why they game plan it versus certain teams,
02:31 or, you know, just get the nuts and bolts
02:32 of the actual play itself.
02:33 And then I also, at the end,
02:37 I'll discuss why the concept worked for the team
02:40 during the season and why it didn't.
02:41 So I'll cherry pick a few of my favorite examples
02:44 of like the pros and the cons of it
02:46 and try to use specific examples to illustrate it.
02:48 And each section I try to fill with as many diagrams
02:50 as I can to illustrate these points that I'm making too.
02:53 And I remember I first came on your books
02:55 when it was one of your Patriots breakdowns.
02:57 And as a chronic overthinker, I've tried, you know,
03:00 break things down and do the filing and everything.
03:02 I always end up getting too far into the weeds
03:04 and I started using your books and your formats
03:06 is kind of my way to see these things in a way
03:08 where it just isn't as overwhelming
03:10 'cause I'm not a coach, I'm not a player, you know?
03:12 I don't need to quite get into that kind of nitty gritty,
03:14 but you do such a good job balancing the detail
03:17 while also making it digestible.
03:18 I really appreciate that.
03:20 So now let's dive into Alex Van Pelt.
03:22 So you broke down the Browns offense back in 2021.
03:25 We all understand that Alex Van Pelt's offense
03:27 may not look exactly like it did with the Browns
03:30 'cause he has had so many stops,
03:32 but it's not a stretch to think
03:33 that a lot of those core philosophies
03:35 are gonna carry over.
03:36 So from your perspective,
03:37 what were the core philosophies
03:39 of some of those Browns offenses?
03:40 Obviously run by Kevin Stefanski,
03:42 but Alex Van Pelt being the offensive coordinator,
03:45 he had a pretty big hand in those plans
03:47 and concepts as well.
03:49 - Yeah, I think the biggest thing that jumps out to me,
03:51 and like you were saying, I've studied a lot of offenses,
03:53 I've written about a lot of offenses.
03:54 I think I can say this safely about the Cleveland Browns,
03:57 especially up front and especially in the run game,
04:00 that they are probably the most well-coached team
04:02 that I've studied.
04:02 I think from a scheme design standpoint
04:07 and then also from like a technical execution standpoint,
04:09 I think the statement holds true for both of those.
04:12 That's something that's philosophical
04:14 and that certainly can be carried over
04:16 regardless of what play you're calling on a Sunday
04:18 or what plays you're installing during the week as well.
04:21 The run game is incredibly diverse.
04:23 And a lot of this obviously has to do with Bill Callahan,
04:25 but I'm sure Alex Van Pelt was taking notes too.
04:27 - And Scott Peters too.
04:28 He's in New England now as well.
04:30 - Yeah, yeah, exactly.
04:31 So taking that run game,
04:34 the ability to, something else that jumped out too is,
04:37 when you watch NFL tape every once in a while,
04:40 you'll see a run play into a bad look,
04:42 whether the quarterback forgot to check out of it
04:43 or whether it was just poor design or something.
04:46 That very rarely ever happened with Cleveland.
04:48 They're always running into good looks.
04:49 They're always giving their offensive line
04:51 leverage for the blocks.
04:52 They're always running into good box counts
04:54 or good side of the ball
04:55 that has advantageous numbers for them.
04:58 And then within that,
05:00 each play that they're calling
05:03 and the aiming points for the offensive line
05:05 just make a lot of sense.
05:07 And like I said, you can't say that
05:09 for every team every week.
05:11 Even some of the well-coached teams that I study,
05:13 like I make a point every year to study the 49ers
05:15 and Kyle Shanahan.
05:16 And every couple of times a game,
05:17 you'll see a bust up front
05:19 or you'll see an unblocked Mike linebacker
05:20 making a play at the line of scrimmage.
05:22 You almost never saw that with the Browns
05:23 when I studied them in 2021.
05:25 - And that's huge with this Patriots offense
05:27 that last season.
05:28 What really impressed me,
05:29 especially with the Browns is the shotgun runs.
05:30 The diversity they have is something
05:32 you really don't see around the NFL.
05:34 In New England, I feel like the run scheme,
05:36 partially because the personnel was just so basic
05:38 and even more because there were some issues
05:40 with the offensive line coach and the staff
05:42 where things did kind of get a little messy
05:44 and the personnel didn't work out.
05:45 But you did see a lot of those busts
05:47 where against blitzes,
05:48 you really saw there was a lot of penetration.
05:49 So I think that's a really exciting element
05:52 that they're gonna bring
05:52 where when they are in these shotgun looks,
05:54 it's not always gonna be inside zone.
05:56 It's not always gonna be duo.
05:57 You're gonna get a lot of pulling guards
05:59 in the misdirection and things that kind of play off of that.
06:01 So going even deeper into the weeds,
06:03 what would you say are the things
06:04 that made that scheme so successful for Cleveland?
06:07 Obviously, other than some of the things you mentioned,
06:09 like where they don't really run into bad looks
06:11 and do a good job picking up blitzes and things like that.
06:13 - Yeah, so a few things.
06:14 So one of the things that really jumped out to me,
06:17 so we talked about how diverse their run game was
06:19 and how good they were at it.
06:20 All right, so what do the numbers say?
06:22 If you break it down by concept, right?
06:24 Like you look at power, the different variations of power,
06:26 counter, duo, all the different zone variations.
06:29 They're averaging almost five to six yards per carry
06:32 on each of these concepts.
06:33 So they're running all of them efficiently,
06:35 which is usually you'll get one or two where a team's good
06:37 at and that kind of carries the rest of the run game.
06:40 And then the other ones are just kind of auxiliary runs
06:41 to keep the defense honest.
06:42 They were legitimately good
06:43 at all the different types of runs.
06:45 So obviously that speaks to the coaching.
06:48 Specifically when I studied them,
06:49 so I also coach high school football.
06:51 I changed the way that I taught and game plan
06:54 and formation, the pin pole concept based on how,
06:56 what I learned from studying the 2021 Browns.
06:58 The way, the different ways they got to it,
07:00 how they ran it against different looks was something
07:03 that I hadn't really seen much of to that point,
07:06 especially at the NFL level.
07:07 So I really changed the way that I installed
07:09 and game plan that concept after studying the Browns.
07:12 And then with a successful run game,
07:15 Kevin Stefanski, Van Pelt and that coaching staff
07:18 made a point to marry the play action game
07:20 with it really well.
07:22 The keeper, so when I say, so like when you hear a keeper,
07:25 a naked, a bootleg, so that's faking outside zone
07:27 or a gap scheme one way,
07:28 the quarterback will roll out the other way.
07:30 And there's usually some sort of like three level flood
07:32 or something working against the grain
07:35 or against the run action, right?
07:36 It's kind of like a typical early installed
07:40 play action type stuff.
07:42 And they were excellent at those.
07:44 They game plan different versions of them
07:46 to attack the different fronts
07:47 and the different coverages they were seeing
07:49 just as good, if not better than anybody that I've studied.
07:51 And then a few other specific concepts,
07:54 like one that jumped out to me as well
07:55 was a concept I call pylon sale.
07:58 It was actually the cover for that Browns book.
08:00 I liked it so much.
08:01 So out of 22 personnel,
08:03 they would fake one of their main power actions.
08:06 And they would base, so the receiver,
08:09 the outside receiver would run basically
08:10 what's called a pylon route.
08:11 It's like a deep corner.
08:12 So they're taking the top off the defense
08:14 and the tight end, the detached tight end,
08:17 who is the number two receiver will run a sale route.
08:18 So it'll take a clean release and kind of like banana it
08:20 at like 10 to 12 yards and work towards the sideline.
08:23 And then a third receiver, a fullback or the running back
08:26 will be the check down in the flat.
08:27 So it creates a three level flood.
08:28 But what makes this concept unique, especially,
08:31 a lot of teams have started running it a lot more
08:32 since then, after the Browns,
08:35 they averaged over 15 yards per play
08:37 with this concept in 2021.
08:39 And part of the brilliance of the concept
08:42 is everybody runs flood actions off play action.
08:44 But what they did really well was,
08:46 number one, they married it exactly to their run looks.
08:49 You know, they wouldn't get into,
08:50 there was no tips or, you know, tips to the defense.
08:54 Hey, you know, this isn't, you know,
08:56 they're loading up for play action here type of thing.
08:57 That's the first part of it.
08:58 And the other part is when you bring that vertical element,
09:01 when you bring that number one receiver tighter
09:03 into the core of the formation,
09:05 he becomes a viable receiver.
09:06 Usually on flood concepts, that route's just a clear out,
09:08 but when you bring him in and tag him on that pylon route,
09:11 instead of just like a clear out go on the outside
09:13 with a big split, a lot of the Browns,
09:15 Baker Mayfield hit a lot of big plays on that specific route.
09:18 'Cause, you know, corners and safeties
09:19 were jumping that sale.
09:20 They're like, all right, we see flood coming.
09:21 We see flood, we'll drive down on the sale.
09:23 Well, that pylon would just sprint
09:24 right over the top of them.
09:25 And that would be a big play for Cleveland.
09:27 - I'm not positive.
09:28 I believe that Jacoby Bursette hit that same play
09:31 to Donovan Peoples-Jones against the Falcons.
09:33 It was one of my favorite plays
09:34 from when he was with the Browns,
09:36 where just huge play, and I'm looking at that,
09:38 and I'm thinking with a guy like Bursette and Drake May,
09:40 where they have the kind of arm where,
09:42 you know, we kind of talked about it offline,
09:44 but with Mac Jones, he didn't really see that.
09:47 You really just saw the sale or the over routes,
09:49 and that's pretty much what you're gonna be getting
09:51 on those type of play action concepts.
09:53 These guys for the Patriots can really hit that deeper part
09:56 that makes you have to defend the full field.
09:57 I'm also curious, when you mentioned the pin pull
09:59 and how you changed your coaching,
10:01 I don't want you to give too much away,
10:02 but what were some of the elements that you incorporated?
10:04 'Cause one thing I noticed was how they usually have
10:06 like the joker who has a slot receiver,
10:08 and then kind of have him pinned down,
10:10 and that was usually one of the tells I noticed
10:13 when they used it, and like you said,
10:14 it was a really successful play for them.
10:16 So what were the things that you liked
10:17 and kind of incorporated?
10:18 - You're spot on with the tight end alignment.
10:20 That was the biggest thing that I took was,
10:23 you know, a lot of times, you know,
10:25 up to that point in my coaching career,
10:26 it was, okay, pin pull, we like it against a six technique,
10:29 you know, a six technique's head up on the tight end.
10:32 You try to jab to sell inside zone,
10:33 and then you try to have the tight end reach,
10:35 and that's a hard block for a tight end,
10:36 let alone a high school tight end
10:37 who a lot of these guys at the high school level,
10:39 you know, they just want to catch passes,
10:40 you know, a lot of them don't want to block.
10:41 So you want to make things as easy for them as possible,
10:44 regardless, right?
10:44 So like splitting him out, you know,
10:46 there was some other run game stuff
10:47 that we would do with that look as well.
10:50 So we kind of flex him out a little bit,
10:52 and then make that, give him a better angle
10:53 for that pin down block.
10:54 And then also too, all right,
10:56 so something Cleveland did was, you know,
10:59 I think, and specifically I remember the Denver game,
11:01 'cause it was Vic Fangio defense, was, you know,
11:04 okay, they want to keep that defensive end
11:06 still outside the tight end, like in a wide,
11:07 like a wide nine, right?
11:08 And still treat him like an on the ball tight end,
11:10 even though he's flexed like three yards out.
11:12 All right, so now we're going to jab and bluff,
11:14 and the first puller would kick him out.
11:15 And it's, you have,
11:16 because that tight end had that wider split,
11:19 it's an easier kick out block for whoever the first puller is,
11:23 whether it's the center or the, you know,
11:25 the play side guard or whoever it might be.
11:27 So that was probably the biggest thing that I took.
11:30 - Were there any other examples that you can think of?
11:32 I'm kind of putting you on the spot here,
11:33 but any other examples of them making the blocks
11:35 for the tight ends easier?
11:36 'Cause that was one thing, like,
11:38 with the Patriots drafting Jaheim Bell,
11:39 I'm thinking this is a guy where,
11:41 if you want to use him as a blocker,
11:42 really you want him on the field to set up explosive plays,
11:44 but you want to kind of give him a little bit
11:46 of an easier assignments,
11:48 because he's not the prototypical tight end.
11:50 Now, with Najoku and Harrison Bryant,
11:52 they did have guys that were big enough
11:53 to take on the true, you know, inline wide tight end duties.
11:56 But was there anything else where you're like, you know,
11:59 again, creating those advantageous matchups
12:00 where you're not asking tight ends
12:02 to do things they can't handle?
12:03 - Yeah, I think the best example is
12:05 when they get into duo, or when they got into duo.
12:07 So, in 11 personnel duo,
12:09 the tight end against a typical four down front,
12:11 which is what you see usually
12:13 when you got 11 personnel on the field,
12:15 your tight end is one-on-one at the point of attack
12:17 with the defensive end.
12:18 And usually that defensive end
12:19 is going to win that matchup, right?
12:20 Unless you got just like Gronk or, you know, Kelsey,
12:23 or just an absolute baller at tight end.
12:25 So how do you mitigate that?
12:27 Well, you get into 12 personnel.
12:29 You get two tight ends on the field.
12:31 And if you're still seeing these four down fronts,
12:33 now you can get a double team on that block as well.
12:36 And then now you'll end up with three double teams
12:38 if you're running 12 personnel duo
12:40 against a four down front.
12:41 So that's one way is,
12:42 if you know you're playing a four down team
12:44 that won't get into like an under front,
12:45 or, you know, get into an odd front
12:47 on against 12 or 21 personnel.
12:50 You know, if you know you're getting that,
12:51 bringing that second tight end to run a concept like duo
12:53 just makes a ton of sense.
12:55 - Awesome, Mark.
12:56 We got a lot more to talk about.
12:57 We already gotten in some good stuff.
12:58 I'm excited to keep going.
12:59 But first, got to send it over to our friends at game time.
13:02 Be right back.
13:03 - NBA finals are finally here.
13:04 And if I have any chance at all to find tickets to a game,
13:07 it's probably going to be through game time.
13:09 An authorized ticket marketplace of the NBA,
13:11 which makes getting playoff tickets even faster and easier.
13:15 Prices on the game time app actually go down
13:17 the closer it gets to tip off.
13:18 And with killer last minute deals, all in prices,
13:21 views from your seat and their lowest price guarantee,
13:24 game time takes the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets.
13:27 Getting through the game time app is super easy
13:29 and I really liked their user interface.
13:31 All you have to do is go to the game or event
13:33 that you want to attend,
13:34 go through the venue to see where you want to sit
13:37 relative to the action.
13:38 Then you can actually get a panoramic view of your seat.
13:41 So you'll know exactly what to expect
13:43 once you get your ticket.
13:44 Game time is also great for those weekends
13:46 where you're not really sure what you want to do
13:48 with your night, because you can just scroll through,
13:50 look at flash deals, zone deals, or last minute tickets
13:53 and find a plan to spend the rest of your day or evening.
13:56 You can save even more with exclusive in-app deals
13:58 on select seats ahead of the game or event.
14:01 And your purchase is covered
14:02 with the most flexible customer service policy
14:05 in the ticket industry.
14:06 Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with game time.
14:09 Download the game time app, create an account
14:12 and use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase.
14:15 Terms apply.
14:16 Again, create an account and redeem code CLNS for $20 off.
14:21 Download game time today.
14:23 Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
14:28 - So we've talked about what made the Brown six scheme
14:30 so successful, but no scheme is perfect.
14:33 So when you were studying this offense,
14:35 what were some of the things that you saw
14:37 that gave this scheme some trouble?
14:39 - So the biggest thing is the drop back pass game.
14:41 I think a lot of, and you can see this in the book as well.
14:45 A lot of the concepts they were running are classic,
14:47 all purpose, you know, drive, Hank,
14:50 even some of the other like more like old,
14:53 like West Coast, like all purpose type concepts,
14:56 which are fine and that's great,
14:57 but there wasn't a ton of designer element to them.
14:59 Like there was like the play action or the run game,
15:02 you know, obviously, you know,
15:04 take with a grain of salt too, right?
15:06 Baker Mayfield's playing quarterback for them at the time,
15:09 you know, however they saw him
15:11 or however they wanted to game plan for him.
15:13 You know, you gotta take that with a grain of salt too,
15:15 but at least on the tape, right?
15:16 Like I can just speak off what I'm seeing on the tape.
15:18 Like the drop back pass game left a lot to be desired.
15:22 - Okay, and now we talked about also the fact
15:26 that Drake May said that when he went up to New England,
15:28 he actually watched film of the Packers offense
15:31 and Alex Van Pelt is a guy who stressed the fact
15:33 that he has been in so many different places,
15:36 been able to incorporate so many different ideas.
15:38 So with that deficiency in the drop back pass game
15:40 specifically, but also anything else
15:42 that you may have noticed,
15:43 what are some changes you think that we could see
15:45 from Alex Van Pelt in the Patriots offense
15:47 with obviously probably the core
15:49 of what he did with the Browns,
15:50 but maybe with some other elements
15:51 from his past stops as well?
15:53 - Yeah, if I was in his shoes,
15:54 I would pull from some of those old Packers stuff, right?
15:56 Like the Mike McCarthy West Coast stuff, right?
15:58 Like I know I use the word West Coast,
15:59 you know, a couple of minutes ago,
16:00 but I'm kind of kicking myself for saying it now
16:02 because it almost doesn't mean anything anymore, right?
16:05 Like there's so many things that are West Coast,
16:06 you know, you can describe almost anything
16:07 coming from there too.
16:08 So, you know, more of that Mike McCarthy type drop back game,
16:13 which is definitely a lot more involved
16:16 and has a lot more answers than what Cleveland was doing,
16:19 you know, in 2021.
16:21 So I think pulling from that experience
16:23 and obviously the stuff Aaron Rodgers does
16:25 with his footwork is relatively unique, right?
16:29 The way he gets from like,
16:31 I remember when I studied the Packers in 2020,
16:32 they were like just a typical like slant flat play,
16:35 like dragon, right?
16:36 Like everybody runs dragon.
16:38 Now that's as West Coast as it gets.
16:40 So, you know, so that's a play in everyone's playbook
16:43 and it's great against single high
16:44 and other types of looks too.
16:46 But the way I remember one clip
16:49 that specifically jumped out to me was he was reading it.
16:51 So he read the slant route to the flat route
16:53 and the defense kind of disguised like a cover two trap.
16:56 So like the hook defender took the slant away.
16:59 So Rodgers, you know, kind of shuffled his feet.
17:01 He's looking to the left, you know, look to the flat,
17:04 which the corner ended up trapping.
17:05 You know, he came down from depth
17:06 and he ended up trapping it.
17:07 So Rodgers didn't even set his feet.
17:09 He didn't even look, but he knew his tight end
17:10 was sitting over the middle on the, over the ball route.
17:12 So he knew, okay, corner's trapping, it's cover two.
17:15 I know I've got the Mike over the,
17:16 or I've got the tight end over the ball
17:18 'cause the Mike's going to be expanding to get depth.
17:20 So just little stuff like that with his feet
17:22 and knowing that he could get there
17:24 because his body was positioned to throw the ball
17:28 to the left flat, but he could still make that throw.
17:30 So stuff like that, I think is stuff
17:32 that you could really take and like, okay,
17:33 in this case, it makes a lot of sense to,
17:36 in the back of your head, okay, if the corner traps,
17:38 I know I can kind of flick the ball here quickly.
17:40 And he made that throw without being late either.
17:42 So just little things like that on a simple concept,
17:45 you know, where it's not non-traditional footwork,
17:47 but it could really enhance the overall success of the play.
17:50 - It's funny you mentioned footwork
17:51 'cause that's been the talk of the town with Drake May.
17:54 Watching his college tape, a big area of criticism
17:56 for him was the fact that his footwork
17:58 did get a little wonky.
17:58 A lot of that was because of coaching.
18:00 'Cause I thought you could see a difference
18:01 between 2022 and 2023 because of the way
18:04 that he was being coached.
18:05 Was there anything other than that one example
18:07 for Aaron Rodgers that you noticed specifically
18:09 because Alex Van Pelt, I know he's really big
18:11 on having his left foot up in the shotgun.
18:13 He always says he wants it to look more
18:15 like Mozart than Metallica.
18:17 So was there anything that you noticed
18:18 with the footwork that was kind of unique
18:20 and how that affected the way that patterns
18:22 and concepts worked out?
18:24 - Yeah, I think something else that jumped out to me too.
18:26 And I know Aaron Rodgers has been on record saying
18:29 that he, I think he credits Alex Van Pelt
18:32 with him incorporating it into his game
18:34 is he calls it that guitar fake.
18:36 So it's off under center power action.
18:39 It's a keeper.
18:40 So they're faking power counter one way
18:41 and they're running a keeper the other way.
18:42 So it's basically, like you said, Mozart,
18:44 like we're selling something, we're painting a picture.
18:47 Really selling the run action on the play action
18:50 before running out to the keeper,
18:52 like getting that extra half second of buy-in.
18:54 Like little stuff like that goes a long way.
18:57 And when I'm saying this story,
18:58 I remember all the detail that Peyton Manning
19:00 used to put into that stuff back in the day too.
19:03 And like, they were insanely successful off play action,
19:05 even with a quarterback like Peyton Manning.
19:07 It's like, hey, they're probably gonna,
19:08 they call a high rate of play action.
19:09 They're probably gonna throw it here,
19:10 but the play action still works
19:12 because it looks identical to the run game.
19:15 So having those two look exactly the same
19:17 via the quarterback's footwork
19:18 is something that's a detail that should not,
19:20 that should not and probably won't be overlooked
19:21 with Alex Van Pelt.
19:23 - And like you said, the West Coast is something
19:25 that has just been tweaked in so many ways.
19:27 There's no really pure West Coast,
19:28 but one of the philosophies that Alex Van Pelt's mentioned
19:31 in each of his stops is that emphasis on play action
19:33 and the ability to sell the run so well
19:35 with full line action, whether it's sliding
19:38 to make it look like wide zone,
19:39 whether you're pulling guys.
19:41 I think Scott Zoellick actually mentioned
19:42 that when Van Pelt was playing,
19:44 he was one of the best play fakers in the NFL
19:46 because the attention to detail he put into it.
19:48 It's gonna be exciting seeing if Drake May
19:50 can incorporate that just with his physical skillset,
19:53 being able to sell it so well.
19:55 Now we're gonna get into more of the personnel fits
19:57 and whether the Patriots have the guys
19:59 to run the schemes and concepts
20:00 that we've been talking about.
20:01 But first, quick word from our friends at PrizePix.
20:04 Be right back.
20:05 - We'll quickly hear from our-
20:06 - PrizePix is America's number one fantasy sports app
20:09 with over 5 million active members.
20:11 Get in on the daily action with your friends
20:14 and become part of the PrizePix community today.
20:17 The finals mean more on PrizePix
20:18 and so do the star players.
20:20 You get boosted payouts on select basketball stars
20:23 that you won't find anywhere else.
20:25 When the finals are over,
20:26 the hoops action doesn't stop on PrizePix.
20:28 Women's basketball was just getting started.
20:31 With young stars like Kaitlyn Clark and Angel Reese
20:33 looking to make names for themselves
20:35 alongside greats like Breonna Taylor and Asia Wilson,
20:38 you can win up to 100 times your cash
20:40 watching them ball out.
20:41 This week on PrizePix, I'm looking at the basketball board
20:43 and I'm taking Jalen Brown's overs on points and rebounds
20:47 'cause dude has been absolutely killing it.
20:49 I'm also gonna take Kaitlyn Clark
20:51 for more than three and a half three-pointers made
20:53 and Breonna Stewart for more than 25 points.
20:56 Download the app today and use code CONS
20:59 for a first deposit match up to $100.
21:01 That's code CONS for a first deposit match up to $100.
21:05 Pick more, pick less.
21:07 It's that easy.
21:08 (upbeat music)
21:11 So one of the themes with Alex Van Pelt's offenses
21:15 and specifically the Browns is that wide zone.
21:17 Like he said it flat out
21:19 in his introductory press conference with the Browns,
21:21 that is the base of his run game.
21:23 But also like we mentioned, it is very diverse,
21:25 but that tends to come
21:26 with a lot of the interior linemen pulling in.
21:29 You really have to be athletic in that scheme.
21:31 Now the Patriots do have some really athletic guys.
21:33 They have Tukso Correfor who looking at him
21:35 next to all the other linemen on the Patriots roster,
21:37 it's kind of funny.
21:38 He just looks like a jumbo tight end
21:39 and all these other guys are just wide and bulky
21:42 and he kind of stands out.
21:43 But also guys like Caden Wallace, Cole Strange,
21:46 guys who really are athletes first,
21:48 but they've also got a ton of guys who are more maulers
21:50 like a Mike Nwenu, Leighton Robinson.
21:52 David Andrews does a little bit of both,
21:54 so he's kind of in the middle category.
21:55 But do you think the offensive line has the personnel,
21:58 the run, not only the wide zone,
22:00 but that pull heavy scheme that we tend to see
22:02 from Alex Van Pelt in those Browns offenses?
22:05 - Yeah, certainly.
22:06 I think like we were talking about earlier,
22:08 it comes down to the attention to detail.
22:10 I think, especially as the season starts,
22:12 it takes a few weeks to kind of figure out
22:14 what you're good at too.
22:15 And figure out which matchups
22:18 and which types of blocks the guys are good at
22:21 will take a little bit of time.
22:22 But I think as the season goes on,
22:24 you'll see them kind of settle into,
22:25 okay, what are their core gaps or the core zone runs
22:30 that they like, that they're good at,
22:31 and then obviously building the auxiliaries
22:34 that you're using later in the season
22:35 off what you're good at at that point.
22:37 So I think to kind of answer the question,
22:39 yes, they can run any of the concepts
22:42 that the Browns ran,
22:44 and then kind of figuring out
22:45 what they end up being good at is something,
22:47 it's kind of a wait and see deal.
22:49 - One thing that I believe it was Mike and Wenu mentioned
22:51 is how much chemistry matters in those wide zone schemes.
22:54 And you hear about it if you go all the way back
22:56 to Shanahan where he's talking about how,
22:58 with gap, it's a little more straightforward.
23:00 It's pretty much put this guy in that guy's lap
23:02 as best you can.
23:03 With wide zone, so much of it can be affected
23:05 by what kind of line games the defensive front is running
23:08 and who has more control as you initiate these double teams
23:11 and are trying to peel off.
23:12 So can you break down why is the chemistry
23:14 so important with those wide zone runs?
23:17 - Yeah, certainly, because every offensive lineman
23:19 with wide zone has an aiming point, right?
23:21 So like, and within those aiming points,
23:23 whether it's a single block or a combination block,
23:28 so for instance, on a combination block,
23:29 say two offensive linemen are comboing
23:31 a certain down lineman up to a linebacker.
23:34 How that, the technique that that down lineman uses,
23:36 well, number one, that has to be communicated pre-snap,
23:39 right, like they have to communicate
23:40 that combination pre-snap, the down lineman
23:42 up to the linebacker, whatever code words,
23:45 whatever calls they have, right?
23:46 And then secondly, that defensive line,
23:48 that defensive lineman, based on the technique
23:50 that he's gonna be playing with,
23:52 that combination can look like 10 different ways.
23:54 So the ability to adjust on the fly
23:57 in those first like three to four steps
23:59 of the ball being snapped is critical.
24:01 It takes reps, it takes practice,
24:02 it takes, a lot of times it takes like
24:04 unsaid communication too, just body language
24:06 and reading leverage, you know, from the,
24:09 you know, like, you know, in the case of like,
24:12 you'll say the play side offensive lineman
24:14 is working to try to gain his aiming point
24:16 and the backside offensive lineman
24:17 is trying to overtake it, right?
24:19 That backside offensive lineman has to read,
24:21 okay, am I gonna knock this out?
24:23 Am I gonna work up or am I gonna overtake this block?
24:25 So all that has to happen
24:26 in the first three to four seconds.
24:28 - I think you saw it with the PATH scheme last year,
24:30 when they did try to run wide zone,
24:32 it just didn't feel like that communication was there,
24:34 where sometimes the guy would pull off
24:35 or not give enough help,
24:36 and it kind of put somebody else in no man's land,
24:38 where it's like, all right,
24:39 I don't really have a leverage advantage,
24:40 I'm not sure what you want me to do
24:42 to keep this guy out of the backfield,
24:43 but we have seen with the Patriots,
24:45 it's been a really heavy emphasis
24:46 on making sure they do get that wide zone communication,
24:49 because if they decide, like you mentioned,
24:50 hey, maybe we don't have the personnel in our core scheme,
24:53 should be more downhill with gap concepts.
24:55 Then you can switch that a little more easily
24:57 than if you say, oh, we've been working gap
24:59 and now we actually wanna run wide zone,
25:01 and then you're kind of stuck in a place where,
25:02 well, you missed a lot of time,
25:04 it's gonna be hard to get those reps in.
25:05 Also, continuity on the outside will be huge
25:07 for an interior offensive line in New England,
25:10 that's seen a lot of combinations
25:11 as you got young guys getting incorporated
25:13 and some injuries.
25:14 Now, finally, man of the hour, Drake May.
25:17 We gotta talk about him.
25:18 We talked about the bronze offense,
25:20 we also talked about a little bit of the Packers offense
25:22 with Aaron Rodgers.
25:23 So, from what you saw in watching Drake May,
25:25 how well do you think he's gonna fit
25:27 in this brown slash possibly Packers adjacent offense?
25:30 - I think he's gonna fit well.
25:31 I think like we talked about earlier,
25:34 like that pile on sale concept,
25:36 the ability to push the ball further downfield
25:39 with accuracy is something that jumped out to me
25:40 when studying Drake May.
25:42 And that's, if you're gonna run play,
25:44 like a play action heavy offense like that,
25:46 like those shots, you need quarterbacks
25:47 that are number one, are willing to take them.
25:50 Number two, can make them with accurate throws,
25:53 and Drake May has that.
25:53 So I think that can really lift the ceiling
25:56 for the Patriots offense early.
26:00 And then his ability to process also jumped out to me.
26:03 So like, say, we talked about the drop back game
26:06 kind of lacking with the 21 Browns.
26:08 I think, Van Pelt and the coaching staff
26:11 will feel better about installing and using
26:14 or calling different drop back concepts
26:16 on early down situations if they know Drake May
26:20 is gonna hit the check down early,
26:22 instead of taking a sack or forcing the ball somewhere
26:24 where it shouldn't go, or just living to take
26:29 those little positive gains, staying ahead of the chains.
26:32 That gives the coaches the confidence
26:34 to call that part of their call sheet
26:36 on early down situations, instead of just saving it
26:39 for like third and sixth type deal.
26:41 - I love that you mentioned processing,
26:42 'cause I felt like coming out of college,
26:44 that wasn't talked about enough with Drake May,
26:45 a guy who's 21 years old, only started two years in college,
26:49 and some of the reads he's making, how quickly he did it,
26:51 the fact that a lot of his shots
26:53 aren't really taking crazy risks,
26:55 it's just him naturally attacking leverage
26:57 or scheme advantages based on where the openings are,
27:00 and not really throwing blindly into coverage.
27:01 And it's still very early, but we even saw glimpses
27:04 of that yesterday in the quick game
27:05 and in the short passing game, where he's attacking
27:08 and throwing into blitzes, or he's moving defenders,
27:10 and also getting through his reads really quickly
27:13 to get to his check downs, not just hold onto the ball
27:15 like you see a lot with young quarterbacks.
27:17 Again, super early, but the signs are there.
27:19 Again, love that you touched on processing.
27:21 Bobby, this was a blast, man.
27:23 Thank you so much for joining us.
27:24 Please let the people know where they can find you
27:27 and what great stuff you've got coming down the pipeline
27:29 that people should be looking out for.
27:30 - So I'm most active on Twitter or @,
27:34 my handle is @b_peters12.
27:37 I've written, like we were talking about,
27:38 I've written, I don't even know how many at this point,
27:40 countless books breaking down NFL schemes.
27:42 I try to do three to four every year.
27:45 This year, I'm shooting fingers crossed for six
27:47 before the end of July here.
27:49 So we'll see if I meet that deadline there.
27:52 But yeah, so these books I self-published,
27:54 they're available on Amazon.
27:56 If you're interested in bundling them though,
27:57 send me a DM on Twitter because I can offer a bundle deal
28:01 to save you some cash on that side of it.
28:04 And then also I started a sub stack,
28:05 and you can find that at alertthepost.com.
28:08 I've got, so I just finished up a Baltimore Ravens
28:11 complete offensive manual that went live
28:14 almost two months ago now,
28:15 and I'll be finishing up a Houston Texans one
28:17 that should be going live early next week.
28:19 And then I will leave the sixth team
28:21 that I am breaking down a mystery for now.
28:24 - I like that. Real quick, actually, I'm curious.
28:26 When you were studying the Ravens, what surprised you?
28:28 Because I know conceptually,
28:29 they were doing some real different stuff last season
28:31 than what we saw from them in previous seasons
28:33 with Lamar Jackson.
28:34 - The run game, so in the run game,
28:37 they ran counter and inside zone variations,
28:40 specifically out of 12 personnel,
28:41 like two tight end, like one tight end on each side,
28:44 the different ways that they got to those concepts
28:46 and the different RPOs they ran stood out to me.
28:49 The way they game planned them and installed them
28:51 and taught them were top notch.
28:54 And then in the pass game,
28:56 I think I tweeted this out months ago,
28:58 but the sentence really just stuck with me.
29:01 Their pass game was complicated enough.
29:04 So it had enough answers, but it wasn't,
29:07 it was kind of that middle ground between,
29:09 I know you talked about that 2017 Patriots book I ran,
29:12 or Patriots book that I wrote.
29:13 That's kind of like the Holy Bible
29:15 of like the drop back pass game, right?
29:17 Like every receiver's got two or three different options.
29:19 Like it's just the most complex thing you can find
29:20 in the NFL at that time and probably still now,
29:23 versus the Cleveland Browns,
29:24 which was kind of the lower end of that spectrum
29:26 where it's a lot of like the basic West Coast
29:27 early install stuff that you see at all levels.
29:29 I think they did it,
29:30 Todd Munkin and that staff did a good job
29:32 of like striking that middle ground of,
29:34 okay, we're still gonna run some stuff
29:36 that gives Lamar answers,
29:37 but we're not gonna put too much on his shoulders
29:39 where he's playing slow
29:40 because like with a quarterback like Lamar Jackson,
29:42 you want him playing fast mentally, right?
29:43 Like you don't want him playing slow either way
29:46 'cause when he can make quick, decisive decisions,
29:49 I mean, he's one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL.
29:51 So understanding that when you're creating an offense
29:53 to build around him is something that I noticed
29:56 when studying them as well.
29:57 One of my favorite concepts that they ran was,
30:00 I know Julian Edelman ran it for years in New England.
30:03 It's that, it's kind of like that Seattle route.
30:05 So like they sell that deep over, that deep cross,
30:07 and then they'd bend it back out.
30:08 So I call that like Seattle or, you know,
30:10 it's a version of a sale concept.
30:12 And I wanna say the Ravens,
30:13 in the couple of different versions they ran of it,
30:15 averaged over 18 yards per attempt when calling that.
30:18 It was a super explosive play for them.
30:21 - Was that Zay Flowers running it most of the time
30:23 or did they switch it up?
30:24 - Zay Flowers, Bateman might've ran it a couple of times,
30:28 but yeah, a lot of times it was Zay Flowers.
30:29 It was the tight end a lot too, like Andrews,
30:32 but before he got hurt
30:33 and then likely ran it a bunch as well.
30:34 So yeah, they kind of spread the wealth on that one.
30:37 - I could have turned this into a Raven show, man.
30:39 I'm so excited to dig into that book.
30:40 Once again, Bobby, thank you so much for your time, buddy.
30:42 And thank you all as always for watching.
30:45 Take care of yourselves, take care of each other.
30:47 We will see you next time.
30:48 Peace, y'all.
30:49 (upbeat music)
30:52 (upbeat music)
30:54 (upbeat music)
30:57 (upbeat music)