Marching On Together Leeds United Podcast: Play-offs begin with a draw, Dan James RETURNS, & where should Archie Gray play?
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00:00 Well, Lee, it was a bit of a ball fest.
00:04 Leeds, first leg of the semi-final against Norwich City.
00:09 Obviously, Leeds are still in the tie.
00:12 I think that's the main thing to talk about.
00:14 It was a goalless draw.
00:16 Neither side were brilliant at their perhaps flowing best,
00:19 but I think it's fair to say Leeds were slightly more organised.
00:22 They looked as if they'd turned a corner performance-wise,
00:25 given some of the results and performances they put out in recent weeks.
00:28 So, despite the boring nature on an attacking sense,
00:33 was it slightly more encouraging from a Leeds perspective?
00:36 I think so, yeah. The bar was set pretty low,
00:38 you've got to say, based on recent performances,
00:40 which have been nowhere near what they were like earlier on in the season,
00:42 when they went on the long run and everything,
00:44 which had it very much looking like they were heading towards the automatic promotion.
00:47 That obviously wasn't the case.
00:48 But yeah, I think it was slightly more encouraging, let's say.
00:51 And ultimately, they are not just still in the tie.
00:55 They have to be seen very much as favourites now for the tie.
00:58 But we'll come to that a bit later.
01:00 But we said beforehand, after shipping in goals left, right and centre and whatnot,
01:04 the first thing there, first and foremost,
01:06 even though Leeds went there as favourites,
01:08 was just to make sure that you stay in the tie,
01:10 especially early on, and make sure that you're still in the tie,
01:13 going back to Ellen Road.
01:14 And obviously, there was no goals, it was a goalless draw,
01:17 and not the most entertaining game you'll ever see.
01:20 But first and foremost, it looks a lot more solid at the back, which is good.
01:23 It's probably no surprise with a bit of a change in shape,
01:26 obviously a three-man midfield.
01:28 I didn't know what to think really going into the game.
01:30 And I've got to say, when I saw the team sheet and the sort of new look midfield,
01:33 that it sort of raised my confidence a little bit,
01:35 because I've seen Archie play at number 10 a few times,
01:38 and he does have a lot of potential, I think, to play in that position.
01:40 He's definitely got good attacking qualities in his armoury,
01:44 as well as defensive ones.
01:45 But it's fair to say he didn't have his best game.
01:48 He really struggled to get involved.
01:49 But overall, it did make Leeds harder to break down, really.
01:53 I mean, the only thing is, is that maybe by doing that,
01:55 did they lose a little bit in the final third, so to speak.
01:58 And obviously, we didn't have Patrick Bamford.
02:01 So we had Routier going up through the middle.
02:03 It was a disappointing game from Routier, really.
02:05 You really want him to step up and be not just him,
02:07 but be one of the ones to really step up and shine now.
02:09 And hopefully he can do that on Thursday evening.
02:11 But he never got going, really.
02:12 And, you know, just very, very few chances, really.
02:15 I mean, what was it, two shots on target for Leeds and one for Norwich?
02:17 And we're struggling to even remember what they were, really.
02:19 And seven for them, shots, six for Leeds, and 60-40% possession for Leeds.
02:25 But, yeah, goal was strong.
02:26 It looked to be heading that way from a long way out.
02:28 What you would say is, is that Leeds are probably,
02:30 well, they certainly are unlucky, really,
02:32 not to be heading back to Ellen Road with some sort of lead.
02:36 The Nantes challenge, when I saw that straight away, I thought penalty.
02:39 When you watch it back, it's one of them.
02:41 It does sort of start on the outside of the area,
02:43 but sort of like continues into the box.
02:45 I mean, that could definitely have easily been given.
02:47 And then the other one, the Firpo goal where Routier was offside.
02:49 I mean, I was sort of like a bit bemused watching that back,
02:52 because I thought straight away watching it back,
02:53 but why is he offside? Because he looked like he was being played on by the left-back.
02:56 But anyway, Daniel Farker wasn't happy about those, obviously,
02:59 and sort of said afterwards that, you know,
03:01 if it wasn't for those decisions, if you had VAR and whatnot,
03:03 that Leeds would already be automatically promoted.
03:05 But obviously, they're not.
03:07 It's been sort of suggested that if they get to the Wembley final,
03:10 which is the case, then they will have VAR enforced there.
03:13 So there'll be no complaints on that score.
03:15 But first and foremost, they've got to get there, haven't they?
03:17 And you've got to say it does look like they've laid the platform to get there.
03:21 We will come on to that in a minute.
03:22 They are definitely not there yet.
03:23 Absolutely no way.
03:25 But I think a lot of fans did sort of fear going to Norwich,
03:28 especially the way things have gone recently,
03:30 and, you know, maybe falling 2-0 down after half an hour or something,
03:34 and heading back to Ellen Road on the back of like a 2-0 defeat,
03:37 or even worse or something.
03:38 And then it's a massive uphill task.
03:41 And, you know, it's basically a one-off game now, isn't it?
03:43 And you've got to say earlier on in the season,
03:45 the way Leeds were going at home, if Leeds had, you know,
03:47 one game at home to get into the playoff final,
03:49 you definitely would have taken that.
03:51 You probably would have taken that at the start of the season,
03:54 I think, in terms of, you know, that very first month
03:56 when there was so many people leaving on loan exit clauses and stuff.
03:59 I'm pretty sure if you asked Daniel Farker and said, you know,
04:01 would you have taken that, you know,
04:03 win one game at home against Norwich,
04:06 you obviously respect Norwich a lot to get in the playoff final.
04:08 I think you probably would have taken that.
04:09 And that's the situation they've got.
04:11 So, yeah, you know, a slight improvement,
04:13 but I mean, let's not wax lyrical about it because it wasn't brilliant.
04:16 Neither side were brilliant, really.
04:19 But, yeah, nil-nil, definitely slight improvements from a defensive aspect,
04:23 but obviously they need to sort of refine that attacking vigour now.
04:26 And let's hope that's the case in the second leg.
04:29 Very much so, yes.
04:30 I think having watched the game myself,
04:33 Leeds, as you say, the two goal opportunities or penalty decisions,
04:39 yeah, I think the one on Nantes, it's one of those where I think
04:42 if it was in the Premier League under VAR restrictions,
04:46 if it's given, it stays given.
04:48 If it's not given, it probably doesn't get overturned.
04:50 It's one of those where it could really go either way.
04:54 Anyway, though, as you mentioned there,
04:56 Archie Gray didn't have his best game in this encounter,
04:59 but he was playing in a position he's perhaps not too familiar with,
05:04 you know, sort of a number 10, right, just behind the Strikers.
05:07 It's an interesting one, that.
05:09 He's very, very versatile, clearly, is Archie Gray.
05:11 So is that something where, as you mentioned before,
05:14 he could play there long term, or is he more suited to his defensive role,
05:18 perhaps at right back where he's played the majority?
05:20 Yeah, I think long term, it'll be a centre midfield, as simple as that,
05:25 and probably like a box-to-box midfield, you know,
05:27 that offers stuff both defensively and going forward as well.
05:30 It's a difficult one, though, that, and I was thinking before we came on there,
05:32 actually, like, you know, where should you play Archie Gray at the moment
05:37 in terms of positions?
05:38 Because you've basically now really got three choices, really.
05:40 You can either play him at right back, where obviously, you know,
05:43 he isn't a natural right back, but that's more or less where he sort of,
05:45 like, made his breakthrough this season in centre midfield as part of the sort of,
05:49 like, you know, double pivot, if you like.
05:51 Probably, he'd probably be the slightly more advanced one of those.
05:53 Or now, as we're seeing, like, as this kind of, like, number 10
05:56 or slightly more advanced midfielder in a three-man midfield.
05:59 Or I suppose you could even say if they revert back to, you know,
06:02 what they've been going to all season in terms of, like, you know,
06:04 two and then a front four, like having him as one of the number 10s
06:07 behind the Striker in the normal sort of system they've been playing.
06:11 And they're all live options.
06:13 It's difficult to know at the moment.
06:14 I mean, I have wondered at the moment if he's best off at right back.
06:17 But the problem is, if you're going to keep him at right back,
06:19 obviously that negates Sam Byrom, unless you're going to play Sam Byrom at left back.
06:22 And Byrom was definitely one of the better players in the first leg.
06:26 One outstanding tackle to say what might have been a goal.
06:29 But then if you're going to switch him to left back,
06:30 then that knocks Firpo out the side.
06:32 And again, Firpo, I know, obviously, didn't have a good last game of the regular season.
06:35 But again, he's definitely been getting better, you know,
06:38 definitely been improving and offering assistance and stuff.
06:40 So it's a real sort of like Rubik's Cube, really,
06:42 in terms of like where you put everyone at the moment.
06:44 But I mean, the other thing with Archie is, is he's still got to remember his age.
06:47 You know, it's crazy to think he's only 18.
06:49 And a mega start at the weekend, that even that appearance was his 50th appearance for the club,
06:55 which made him the youngest player in the club's history to make 50.
06:57 You know, I mean, it's absolutely outstanding achievement is that.
07:00 And it's incredible, really, to think that at the start of the season,
07:04 you know, if we were talking pre-season and doing it,
07:06 he hadn't even stepped out for the first team, you know,
07:08 he hadn't even come off the bench in a League Cup game or anything like that.
07:11 So it's just been an amazing breakthrough year for him.
07:13 It's obviously, you know, the stakes are incredibly high now,
07:16 obviously, going for promotion and stuff.
07:18 And that's an awful lot on the young lad's shoulders, you know,
07:20 which is why I sort of wonder if he'd be maybe better off at right back rather than
07:23 sort of in the firing line as such.
07:25 But he certainly helped do a job in that first leg by helping, you know,
07:28 Shaw leads up and stuff and obviously, like, you know, making a bit harder to break down.
07:32 Obviously, you'd have liked to have seen a bit more from an attacking sort of sphere.
07:36 But I think that will come in time.
07:37 As I say, I think it was earlier on in the season when I saw him a couple of times,
07:41 when he played at number 10, I think it was one of the League Cup games.
07:44 And straight away, like, he looked like someone who could really offer something that.
07:47 And I just think he's the sort of player, I mean, it's obvious, really, when someone's so young,
07:51 he's the sort of player that's going to, like, improve massively over the next couple of years,
07:54 I think. And I would imagine that even over the summer, you know,
07:57 from where we are now over the summer until the start of next season,
08:01 he'll probably come back a much, much, much improved player.
08:04 He's, you know, he's growing all the time and he'll be learning all the time.
08:07 And yeah, you could definitely, definitely see him ending up being a decent attacking midfielder.
08:11 But I think all the way through, the feeling has been that it'll be a box to box one, something like that.
08:15 So, yeah, like, you know, obviously, you know, he hasn't sort of, like, made the headlines as such lately in terms of his performances,
08:21 because obviously, like, in terms of when he first burst on the scene,
08:24 people couldn't quite believe how good this kid was at 17 years of age.
08:27 And it's been a lot steadier, like, since.
08:29 But, you know, he did set the bar very, very high of his early performances.
08:32 So, yeah, you've hit the nail on the head, though.
08:33 The bottom line is, is whatever you want to say about him in terms of, well, should he play right back on midfield or as a 10?
08:39 He's obviously got it within his compass to do all of those.
08:41 And, you know, having a player who's so versatile as that is extremely, extremely useful, obviously,
08:47 because, you know, even if they're not starting, then on a bench, you can bring him on and put him in any of those positions.
08:51 But, you know, I mean, it's not even a definite that he starts at the moment.
08:54 It's, as I say, there's lots of different options.
08:57 But he's a wonderful player to have, obviously.
08:59 And obviously, you just hope that, you know, his long, long, long term future is with Leeds
09:03 and that he's in the Premier League.
09:04 There's no doubt about it that Leeds United run stick through his veins, as that's very, very clear to see.
09:08 And obviously, everybody wants this club to get promoted and nobody will want it more than Archie Gray.
09:14 Very much so, yes. He is clearly a mercurial talent.
09:17 It's just sort of finding exactly where he fits into the team going forward.
09:21 But, obviously, age is on his side, so plenty of time to work that out.
09:26 Looking at Dan James now, he came back into the squad against Norwich after a couple of games missing because of injury.
09:32 Someone who didn't come back in was Patrick Bamford.
09:35 So what's the situation there, Lee?
09:37 Of course, James able to come on as a sub as well in that game.
09:40 And probably, obviously, we'll see him again in the second leg.
09:44 I hope he'll play off final should Leeds get there.
09:46 But obviously Bamford, he's likely to be missing once again later on in the week too.
09:52 Yeah, it sounds like it.
09:53 I mean, Daniel Farker basically said, you know, pretty much straight away, it was pretty much press conference before the first leg that Bamford would miss both legs.
09:59 So that just sounded pretty, you know, sort of like conclusive, not like a chance or anything.
10:02 And, you know, whether he's back for the playoff final, if there is a playoff final, remains to be seen.
10:06 But don't want to be tempting fate.
10:08 So let's just take one step at a time and deal with this second leg.
10:11 The fact is, though, for the second leg that Dan James is back and available, and that's a huge boost.
10:15 And quite a nice quotes from Daniel Farker post-match after the first leg.
10:18 He said that, you know, Dan James had only had one training session.
10:22 So obviously, it was touch and go whether he'd make it, as he said beforehand.
10:24 But so I said that he wanted him there more than anything else to start with, just as a lucky charm, which was the way he put it.
10:30 And I sort of wondered what he meant by that.
10:32 And what he meant by that was that basically, if you're looking on the bench and you start seeing someone of his calibre sat there, then obviously it sort of like gives you, you know, sort of good feel, good factor and stuff, which it does.
10:40 And, you know, obviously came on as a late sub, 87 minutes on the clock.
10:44 And you've got to say, like, it's quite, you know, it's decent and quite impressive and surprising, really, how quickly he's come back.
10:50 Because when he got that injury, I think me and you spoke on here and, you know, we didn't know for definite, but it was obviously going to be touch and go whether he'd be back for any part of the season.
10:59 And to come back three weeks later is obviously, you know, a fantastic boost.
11:03 And it goes without saying that, you know, he's back, but he's not going to be like sort of cherry ripe, fully match fit and stuff.
11:08 Hence why he only came on in the 87th minute.
11:10 I mean, Jadon Nantney came on beforehand.
11:12 He's obviously the other wing option that we've got at the moment, assuming that Somerville and Nantes are starting.
11:18 I suspect that even by Thursday, if it comes to a bench option, that James might well have jumped back ahead of Jadon Nantney, you know, purely because he'll have a few more days training under his belt, which is nothing against Jadon Nantney, who's also got a lot to offer.
11:31 But you've just got to look at the stats.
11:33 And as we've said along, you know, Dan James has always never been any doubt about, you know, his work rate, how much he gets stuck in and also his, you know, lightning fast pace.
11:41 The thing with him has always been his end products.
11:43 But 13 goals and seven assists, you know, answers that question conclusively.
11:48 This season, he could be absolutely huge in the second leg.
11:52 I don't think he'll start.
11:54 I mean, even if like he was fully fit, you probably say that it's got to be Somerville and Nantes.
11:59 Nantes, pretty bright again in the first leg, as we saw, probably should have had a penalty or, you know, certainly claims for a penalty or free kick on the edge of the box.
12:06 And he looks like making stuff happen.
12:07 So I suspect he'll be the bench for Dan James.
12:10 But I also suspect if needed, they'll come on a lot sooner than he did in the first leg.
12:14 And yeah, it's a huge boost to have him back.
12:16 Bamford, obviously, is just going to be a massive miss.
12:19 There's no doubt about that.
12:20 I mean, you know, I for one would be going into the second leg looking at this game and feeling an awful lot more confident if he was there.
12:27 And I think that's just, I think that probably most people would say that across the board, because then there's no doubt about what you do.
12:33 You know, you stick him up front and then it's just a question of who you have behind him as number 10, probably Routier.
12:37 Without him, you know, you just don't really know what's going to happen.
12:41 I mean, firstly, will it be the three-man midfield?
12:43 But I mean, even if it's not like it's not definite who's going to start on the number nine roll up front, will it be Routier?
12:49 Will it be, will it go back to Peru with Routier behind him?
12:52 I mean, the obvious shout is go for Matteo Joseph.
12:55 But I mean, and I for one, that's what I think myself, you know, give him a shot.
12:59 You know, I think he's good enough, but it's obviously a massive game now to bring him into in the second leg of a playoff semi-final.
13:04 But the fact that, you know, he didn't even come off the bench in the first leg doesn't suggest that that's particularly close.
13:09 So basically, Leeds are going to have to get to Wembley without Bamford and do it at a time when there's big question marks about them going forward because they're not scoring goals, you know, like they were in their pump this season.
13:19 But Dan Jones will definitely help for that.
13:22 And I mean, let's hope it's not the case that, you know, come the sort of 60th, 70th minute or something, Leeds are chasing the game or it's nil-nil or something.
13:30 Let's hope it's done and dusted before that.
13:32 Although I suspect it won't be, but we'll come on to that in a minute.
13:34 But if that is the case and they need another option, then he's, you know, first-quarter call on the bench.
13:39 And obviously, as we've said a few times on here, against tired legs and tired defences, you know, his lightning-fast pace should be able to make a difference, really.
13:45 So, yeah, I mean, it was looking like he might not, his season might be over and it's a huge, huge boost that he's back.
13:51 It definitely can't be underestimated how important that is.
13:55 Very much so, yes.
13:56 And of course, as you mentioned earlier, we are, you know, we're nowhere near knowing as to who will go through it.
14:01 There's a whole 90 minutes of football still to come, perhaps 120 plus a bit more after that.
14:06 Yeah, that's a lot.
14:08 Depending on how things go.
14:10 Well, that was how my weekend went.
14:11 So it could very much happen.
14:14 But yes, the second leg is on Thursday evening at Ellander Road.
14:20 Obviously, as you say, the Leeds are favourites.
14:22 They are at home and it is still nil-nil.
14:26 Technically, it's just basically just a knockout match here, starting from scratch, essentially.
14:31 So given that, how do you envision it going?
14:33 Of course, as you mentioned, there are no Patrick Bamford, but Dan James is back.
14:37 So Leeds, nearly at full strength, essentially.
14:41 And given the fact that the performance in the first leg was more encouraging, do you back them to go and do it?
14:49 Oh, it's a hard one to answer that, isn't it?
14:51 Because I wouldn't want to take fate or anything.
14:53 I suspect they'll probably go through, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't, if that makes sense.
15:00 And going back to what we said at the start of this, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it went to extra time and even penalties.
15:06 I mean, I dread to think how that would feel like in a second leg at Ellander Road.
15:09 I mean, the tension there is going to be absolutely massive to start with, let alone if it goes any further than the initial 90 minutes.
15:16 The first thing I noticed, I thought, with this game was when the first leg finished goalless, straight away looked at the prices for the second leg.
15:24 And Leeds were 1-5 to go through.
15:26 I mean, that is so short.
15:28 It's unbelievable. I mean, because I wouldn't quite say this is a 50-50 game because obviously Leeds have finished above Norwich in the table.
15:35 They beat them at Ellander Road earlier in the season.
15:38 No disrespect, but they've probably got a better squad.
15:40 You know, they're at home and stuff.
15:41 So, hopefully starting to turn a corner again.
15:44 So, there's lots of ticks, obviously, in the Leeds United box and stuff when it comes to assessing their chance.
15:50 So, I don't think it's quite a 50-50 game, but by no means write Norwich off in this.
15:55 I mean, absolutely no way.
15:56 I mean, there's things you could look at with them and say their away record wasn't very good in the regular season.
16:01 I think they were 19th in the table over the course of the season and purely on results away from home, which obviously goes, you know, is not great at all.
16:07 But I mean, other things with them, the 1-0, the game that Leeds won 1-0 earlier in the season, as I mean, 1-0 in itself is a very narrow margin.
16:15 Patrick Bamford got the only goal of the game.
16:17 He won't be there.
16:17 So, straight away, you look at that.
16:19 Secondly, I remember in that game, Norwich had a massive spell of pressure at possession.
16:23 I think it was at the start of the second half and, you know, like a lot of people left, like, sort of thinking, you know, they could be ones to worry about in the playoffs a little bit and stuff.
16:31 And yeah, they haven't been very good away from home.
16:34 They've only lost one of the last seven and stuff.
16:35 And ultimately, also, the other thing which is huge is you look at the game and you kind of think, well, Leeds are at home and you also think the same with Southampton.
16:42 So, that's an advantage and it should be an advantage, but it can also work the other way because obviously, like, you've got everybody there, all the expectation, the hope, the pressure, the expectation on it and stuff.
16:51 And basically, Norwich, I wouldn't say it's a free hit, but they're going there as underdogs and not expected to win or get through.
16:56 So, really, really hard one to call.
16:59 I think team news will be key.
17:01 Obviously, you know, we know there's going to be no Bamford, so we'll have to wait and see what happens up front with that.
17:05 I suspect he might revert back to what it was before with something like Peru up front and Roots airing behind, but we'll wait and see.
17:11 I mean, obviously, Leeds will have to go for it.
17:12 They're at home.
17:13 They can't see it back.
17:14 I mean, they're going to have to go for it.
17:15 But then, you know, you worry about Norwich on the counter.
17:17 Josh Sargent's a huge one for them.
17:19 Obviously, he went off injured at the weekend.
17:20 It sounds like he'll be back.
17:22 And that's a really, really big one because, I mean, his movement, and you could imagine his movement, especially on the counter when the space is being potentially a big problem for Leeds.
17:30 So, it's very, very, very hard to call.
17:33 My only thing that I definitely think is that I think that the prices are wrong for it.
17:36 I mean, I'm not saying there should be joint favorites or anything like that.
17:38 And they have changed a little bit now.
17:40 Leeds are now 1-3.
17:41 They're about to go through, and Norwich 11-4.
17:43 So, you know, Leeds are very, very much red-hot favorites for it.
17:46 But I just think it'll be very, very tense.
17:48 And the other warning with this is that you can talk about Leeds' home record, and OK, you can talk about it in terms of, like, how the home record was during that brilliant run.
17:58 But, I mean, lately, obviously, you had the Blackburn defeat.
18:00 That's the first warning.
18:01 Nobody expected that.
18:02 And you only have to cast your mind back to 2019 against Derby County in the playoffs.
18:06 And this was Marcelo Bielsa's team, obviously, you know.
18:09 And even then, it went wrong.
18:10 And even in that game, they went into it with a 1-0 lead and then went 2-0 up, obviously, for Stuart Dallas.
18:14 And even then, it still didn't go through.
18:15 So, at no stage, really, during this game, or even now ahead of it, can you start to think, really, they're there, you know.
18:24 I think the only time you can think they're there is if it's like 80 minutes and they're 3-0 up or something like that.
18:29 But I don't really envisage that happening.
18:30 I hope it happens.
18:31 But, I mean, you know, the way that the attacking has been going lately, first and foremost, it'd just be nice to see a goal and go 1-0 up.
18:38 So, very, very hard game.
18:40 Ashley Barnes is another one, I suppose, for Norwich who could be back.
18:43 He'd be a big player if he comes back and just huge respect for them.
18:46 If I had to make a prediction, I think Leeds will get through.
18:50 But I think it'll be very, very close and tense.
18:53 You know, one of those nights where, you know, you don't have any fingernails left or anything, you know, like, and you'll need all sorts to probably get through the evening.
19:01 So, maybe something like a 1-0 Leeds or a 2-0 Leeds or something like that, potentially, possibly, even an extra time.
19:07 Who knows?
19:08 I think it'll be very, very tense.
19:09 But equally, I've got to be brutally honest.
19:11 I wouldn't be surprised if it went wrong because, like, you know, the pressure is going to be absolutely enormous.
19:15 But we'll stay positive.
19:17 It's 0-0.
19:18 As you quite rightly say, it's like a 90-minute knockout game.
19:20 So, keep the faith.
19:21 Let's hope Leeds return to the best.
19:22 If they return to the best, then, you know, they will go through and they'll beat Norwich.
19:26 But it's a big if at the moment, isn't it?
19:28 So, yeah, hold on to your hats.
19:29 Here we go.
19:30 It's all down to this.
19:31 - Certainly, that is the case.
19:33 It is going to be a tense one.
19:34 Ellen Ruud, I don't think anyone inside the ground will be necessarily enjoying it.
19:39 I don't think that's the... - Yeah.
19:41 - But it remains to be seen what happens.
19:43 But we'll be back next week to see whether Leeds have made it to Wembley.