CINCINNATI -- The Bengals will have a big decision to make when they select 18th overall in the first round Thursday night in the 2024 NFL draft. But what will they do on Days 2 and 3 of the draft on Friday and Saturday? What is their approach? What does recent history teach us about what they might do? Charlie Goldsmith of the Cincinnati Enquirer joins Trags to discuss all things Bengals on the latest episode of the Jungle Roar Podcast.
Welcome to CLNS Media's Cincinnati Sports Studio, your ultimate hub for everything sports in the Queen City! We bring you in-depth analysis, exclusive interviews, and breaking news covering your beloved Cincinnati Bengals and Cincinnati Reds. As passionate fans ourselves, we understand the heartbeat of the Cincy sports community and aim to keep you ahead of the game with accurate and timely information!
Welcome to CLNS Media's Cincinnati Sports Studio, your ultimate hub for everything sports in the Queen City! We bring you in-depth analysis, exclusive interviews, and breaking news covering your beloved Cincinnati Bengals and Cincinnati Reds. As passionate fans ourselves, we understand the heartbeat of the Cincy sports community and aim to keep you ahead of the game with accurate and timely information!
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00:00 Hey everybody, it is Drags Mike Petralia back with the latest episode of Code Reds Everything
00:06 Cincinnati Baseball.
00:08 My pleasure and honor to welcome one of the best beat writers in the business covering
00:13 the Cincinnati Reds for the Cincinnati Inquirer as well as of course Cincinnati.com Gordon
00:19 Whitmire.
00:20 Gordon, thanks for taking time out.
00:22 Anytime Mike, appreciate it.
00:24 So let's get right to it on these 13 and 10 Cincinnati Reds as we record this podcast.
00:31 I think actually as a Reds fan or as a close follower of the ball club, you got to be pretty
00:37 satisfied with the start this team has gotten off to given how many critical pieces are
00:43 out of the lineup right now, both pitching and also of course in the everyday lineup.
00:50 No doubt and I'll give you a stat that backs that up.
00:53 So we know that a couple of years ago they had that horrible 3 and 22 start, lost 100
00:59 games and then even last year when they wound up in a playoff chase, they started off 7
01:05 and 15.
01:06 So you're thinking well, so it's been at least three years since they had a winning record
01:10 kind of out of the gate.
01:12 Actually when they won Tuesday night, it clinched a winning record through 25 games.
01:18 They haven't done that since 2013, which maybe not coincidentally was the last time they
01:25 won 90 games.
01:27 So it's not insignificant.
01:31 Maybe it's very significant, but we all know is it's a long season.
01:36 It is indeed.
01:37 And in a long season, Gordon, and you've been around baseball long enough to know you've
01:41 got to have the pitching and it's not just you're starting five.
01:45 It's not just the closer and the setup man in the bullpen or, you know, four or five
01:50 pieces in the bullpen.
01:52 You've had David Bell said this on numerous times.
01:55 You've got to have more pieces than that come up and contribute throughout the season.
02:00 I would, it has impressed me about this Reds team is I don't think they're pitching necessarily
02:06 this statistics certainly don't indicate that their starters are eight and seven, four,
02:11 eight ERA, the relievers four and three, three 92.
02:16 Those numbers don't blow you out of the water, but they're finding ways to win games.
02:19 I tell you what, they blow you out of the water compared to last year.
02:23 That rotation ERA last year was about five and a half.
02:26 They were one of the worst three.
02:27 In fact, of the bottom six in rotation ERA last year, they were the only ones that didn't
02:35 finish in last place.
02:37 That's how sort of ridiculous everything else went right for them to get them in a playoff
02:44 chase near the end.
02:45 The fact that they're competitive with their starting pitching and they're getting the
02:50 job done again with their, their bullpen night after night is just, just all by itself a
02:57 world of difference from last year.
02:59 And I've written this before on the last road trip, I kind of looked at these guys and said,
03:06 maybe this is the best rotation, maybe even pitching staff that nobody's talking about.
03:11 I mean, people talk about the Yankees.
03:13 People talk about, well, they used to talk about Dodger until everybody got hurt.
03:16 They talk about the Phillies, all these contenders with superstars and nine figure salaries in
03:23 their rotation get talked about.
03:26 Nobody talks about these guys, but they go legit six deep.
03:29 Now that's assuming Frankie Montas is only a short term IL deal.
03:34 They go legit six deep with some starters who can give you a competitive day out there.
03:40 And that's not even counting Brandon Williamson, who opens on the IL, a rookie last year who
03:45 got better down the stretch.
03:48 And so you've got to like the depth they put together.
03:52 And I do think it's going to keep them in games all year long and that it's going to
03:57 put them in probably roughly no worse of a position than they were in as they headed
04:02 down the stretch last year.
04:05 And you know why that's critical, Gordon, you were on the beat last year at the end
04:10 of the season and you saw a bullpen because the starters couldn't consistently get into
04:15 the fifth and sixth innings.
04:17 You saw a bullpen that was just depleted.
04:19 And I think a couple of things.
04:21 First of all, I think they knew that they could have a reset at the start of this 2024
04:27 season and they added one or two pictures to the rotation.
04:32 Nick Martinez, I think was a very valuable addition by Nick Kroll in the off season.
04:38 And they added some veteran arms in the bullpen.
04:41 And I think having veterans who have been around the game and thrown in the bullpen
04:46 matters a little bit more than younger pictures who are still finding their way.
04:51 And look, the way Brent Suter has started this season, very, very encouraging.
04:56 Obviously, we've seen what Fernando Cruz has done and Emilio Pagan.
05:01 Cruz certainly Cruz was with the team last year, but Nick Martinez, Emilio Pagan and
05:06 Brent Suter, those three additions to the bullpen have really allowed, I think, David
05:11 Bell some flexibility here early in the season.
05:14 No doubt.
05:15 If you go back to the trade deadline last year, throw Sam Mullen there, left hander,
05:19 who did great down the stretch for them.
05:21 And now he's back off the I.L.
05:23 Him coming back gives them a nice balance in that bullpen.
05:26 It gives them three lefties, which is something.
05:29 And at times last year, they had one left.
05:33 And they still got the job done from a bullpen standpoint.
05:36 They had a bullpen full of guys that were literally rejects.
05:39 And I mean, guys that have been waived, guys that had just been flat released.
05:44 Fernando Cruz, who you talk about, who might be their best pitcher in that bullpen.
05:50 Best stuff was a guy that was a 32, 33 year old rookie last year because he banged around
05:56 so many places, didn't quite find a fitness and stick.
06:00 And so now and again, now he's one of your most valuable guys.
06:05 When they went into last offseason, the biggest thing that the biggest upside thing that they
06:11 did not do was kid themselves.
06:14 They could have easily said, well, we got all these guys that were hurt last year that
06:18 are coming back.
06:19 And boy, did we have a good bullpen.
06:21 No, no, they didn't.
06:23 That bullpen overachieved and the guys that were coming back from injuries.
06:28 Great.
06:29 Yeah, sure.
06:30 Count on that help.
06:32 But then that just means other guys are going to get hurt because that's the way a season
06:35 works.
06:36 So when they went in and filled holes, they didn't just fill out the end of the five man
06:40 rotation.
06:41 They didn't just fill out the end of that eight man bullpen.
06:44 They doubled down.
06:45 They doubled down to the to the point that Brandon Williamson, if you absolutely needed
06:51 him, you could fast track him through this, through this injury, this IL stint.
06:57 But you don't.
06:58 So you let him take his time and he'll be some depth for you down the road.
07:02 The bullpen guys, they had a dilemma.
07:04 Mike, you were there, you know, they're talking about, well, what are we going to do when
07:07 Ian Jabot comes back?
07:09 Right.
07:10 It turns out Sam Moult came back before.
07:11 But what are you going to do?
07:13 Well, we don't want to lose guys from the organization.
07:17 There's only handful of guys on that pitching staff that have options.
07:20 They were saying we can't option Cruz.
07:22 We can't option Alexis Diaz.
07:24 They're the only two guys in that bullpen that had options.
07:27 So they started looking at starting pitchers, man, that they were looking at starting pitchers
07:32 with options, which are four guys, right.
07:35 But Ashcraft and Jolo had just come back.
07:38 It wasn't gonna be him, but Ashcraft, Hunter Green and Andrew Abbott.
07:44 All those guys are valuable.
07:46 But they were actually having discussions that had them in play to be optioned out for
07:51 Ian Jabot.
07:52 That's where they learn from their experiences last year.
07:57 They did not have enough pitching by a long shot.
07:59 They were lucky the bullpen did what it did and they doubled down on their depth coming
08:03 into this year.
08:05 And if they have success over this long season, it's going to be because of that.
08:10 Look, what impressed me the most in that 8-1 win over the Philadelphia Phillies on Tuesday
08:17 night at GABP was not the Ellie Dela Cruz bomb to the opposite field or even Ellie Dela
08:24 Cruz going 40 yards down the left field line and making a catch.
08:29 I've come to expect the sensational from Ellie Dela Cruz.
08:33 Maybe that's unfair, but I have.
08:35 Okay, I'll just put that out there.
08:37 What impressed me the most were the two batters Fernando Cruz retired in the highest leverage
08:43 possible situation if you can have such a thing with a 5-1 lead.
08:47 In that fifth inning, that was a very difficult spot and you had Trey Turner, the number two
08:53 hitter and you had JT Real Muto, the number three hitter.
08:58 And Cruz comes in and gets those two batters out.
09:01 I credit David Bell and I asked Bell about this after the game.
09:05 Getting him ready that quick for that situation and Cruz responding the way he did.
09:11 That's why I said he might be your best reliever.
09:13 That's his role more than anything else.
09:16 You know, they used to call the top reliever in a game, the fireman of the year and all
09:20 that because he came in and put out fires because it was a different animal back in
09:23 the day when that came about.
09:26 You used your relievers in hot spots.
09:30 Now relievers all have their roles.
09:31 They all have their lineup pockets.
09:34 But to have a guy who can truly be a fireman come in when the flames are the hottest and
09:41 put out the fire, those guys, there aren't very many of them.
09:46 And to be able to identify a guy with the kind of stuff that can do that, come on, strikeout
09:51 pitcher.
09:52 I think he's got the best strikeout rate on the team.
09:54 He had bases loaded, nobody else.
09:56 Like you said, two, three up in the order, including a nine-figure guy to face right
10:01 off the bat with less than two outs.
10:04 He gets these guys out.
10:06 That's what he does.
10:07 He loves those moments.
10:09 He's the best on this staff at it.
10:11 He's probably one of the best in the league at it.
10:13 And I would say, go back to that unsung thing.
10:16 He's definitely the best in the league that nobody knows about, right?
10:19 Yes, I would absolutely think that would be the case.
10:23 Certainly in the conversation of a short list of names, talking with Gordon Wittmeyer of
10:30 the Cincinnati Inquirer and Cincinnati.com, covering the Cincinnati Reds.
10:35 Gordon, I want to ask you your impressions of Nick Lodolo.
10:39 He, as we record this, is going Wednesday night, starting for the Reds, his third start
10:43 back from his left calf issue.
10:45 And of course, he missed most of last year with a left leg stress reaction.
10:51 What has impressed you the most?
10:53 Is it the 12 strikeouts in just one walk?
10:56 Is it his command of the strike zone?
10:58 Is it his ability to bury that breaking ball down and in at opposing right-handed batter's
11:05 feet?
11:06 What is it?
11:07 Well, I took over this beat in June of last year, and he was already on the I-L.
11:12 I never saw him pitching a game last year, and I hadn't seen him.
11:16 I covered the Cubs before that, and I'm trying to remember if I saw him as an opposing pitcher,
11:22 but whatever it was, I didn't pay much attention to him.
11:25 Everybody told me this guy might be the best pitcher on the staff, might have the best
11:29 stuff in that rotation.
11:30 And this is a rotation with Hunter Green, right, with 100 miles an hour and the whole
11:35 thing.
11:36 So spring training, when Lodolo's throwing his bullpens and his live BPs, I took a couple
11:42 of days where I took a few minutes out and just kind of bored down watching him.
11:47 And I remember my first impression when I saw him at full speed in one of those live
11:51 BPs was like, "Oh, man, this is what they're talking about, coming at you from all these
11:56 angles from the left side and the stuff just snapping off."
12:00 And so, okay, well, then he didn't open the season on time, and we come in.
12:06 To get to your question about what's impressed me the most, that he's able to take that after
12:11 almost a year not throwing in a big league game and barely throwing in professional games
12:17 and be able to command all this stuff.
12:20 When you watch Hunter Green, his command comes and goes start to start as he's healthy, right,
12:28 every five days.
12:31 This guy comes in after a year and the stuff's there, and then it's there the next time,
12:35 and we'll see about tonight.
12:37 But he's got his command, he's got velocity, and he's got a break and stuff that when he's
12:44 low, it's just unhittable when he's located.
12:47 And so, this guy, they didn't have him all last year.
12:52 Obviously, if they'd had him or anybody that could give you a semblance of big league starting
12:56 pitch and job spread, they'd have been in the playoffs.
12:59 But this guy, this year, as other teams in the league have ramped up and as the Reds
13:05 again went with depth and counted on growth from their young players, this guy, if he
13:13 stays healthy all season, I don't know why he wouldn't be maybe the single biggest key
13:20 to the success they have this year.
13:22 I could not agree with you more on that, Gordon.
13:25 He gives me the sense, if he, let's hope for his sake, he makes from here on out 25 starts,
13:32 maybe 23, 25 starts.
13:34 If that happens, I think that alone will be a major plus for the Cincinnati rotation and
13:42 give them the top of the rotation guy that they really, really need.
13:46 I think Frankie Montas can be that, certainly serve in that role.
13:52 I think Graham Ashcraft shows flashes.
13:55 What's it going to take for Hunter Green to enter that echelon, Gordon?
14:00 I don't know.
14:04 What I've seen from him so far is everything I heard.
14:07 I mean, he throws the hell out of the ball hard.
14:13 When his slider is on, it's no hit stuff.
14:17 When he's got his slider and he's locating, he's got no hit stuff, but he didn't have
14:22 it the other day.
14:23 His last start, he threw a lot of fastballs.
14:26 He survived.
14:27 He was going to lose that game if he gave up one run.
14:30 Well, he gave up single runs in four innings and wound up losing, but he went seven innings.
14:36 So, starts like that and that other one that he struggled in at home a few starts ago where
14:42 he wound up going six after giving up four early, starts like that are going to help
14:47 him.
14:48 But honestly, listen, I hear people say, hear him say, hear his coaches and his managers
14:55 say, got to have patience with the guy.
14:58 He doesn't have a lot of experience compared to other guys that get, he got here really
15:01 quick.
15:04 It's way past that.
15:05 I'm tired of hearing that crap because look, man, the pitcher controls the action.
15:11 Once you've learned to pitch and locate your pitches, and if they're as good as his two
15:15 best pitches, you can win.
15:18 You should win.
15:20 So there's something that's sort of coming and going with him that's beyond, I'll say
15:28 beyond physical, but that doesn't mean it's beyond mechanics.
15:33 It may be his ability.
15:36 I don't know.
15:37 I don't know what it is, but I've seen guys come in and you've seen it too.
15:41 You see 19 year olds come in sometimes and they just blow away the lead.
15:45 Startup for startup for startup for start.
15:47 He's got that kind of stuff.
15:50 He's got that kind of velocity, that kind of movement on his slider.
15:54 He has the ability to do that.
15:56 And we've seen it.
15:57 We've seen it over and over again.
15:59 The first, when I got this job, the first start I saw him after accepting this job,
16:06 he no hit the Cubs for six innings.
16:10 That's what he can do any given timeout.
16:13 So it's not that he should do that every time out, but he should be, he should have a higher
16:19 floor every time out.
16:21 And that's what we're not seeing.
16:23 That's what we should be seeing.
16:24 And I'm tired of hearing it's about experience or that we need to have patience.
16:29 It's no, it's no longer time for patience.
16:31 This team needs to win now.
16:32 And if you can't help them, then they need to put somebody else in that role.
16:36 I could not agree with you more.
16:38 I think Hunter Green has the stuff.
16:40 There's no question about that.
16:42 I think he needs an off speed slash curve ball type of pitch to get hitters.
16:49 Because when a slider doesn't slide, it's a cement mixer.
16:53 We all know this, you know, essentially a batting practice fastball when it doesn't
16:57 really break.
16:59 And to me, if he could get comfortable with a changeup or have that doc gooden, uh, 12
17:05 to six hammer curve to me.
17:07 And I know he's worked, trying to work on a pitch like that.
17:11 Uh, I think that would transform him.
17:13 But again, Gordon, you know, he's got to be comfortable with it.
17:17 And there's a lot, when I read Hunter Green, there's a lot of nuance to his personality
17:26 when he's on the mound and you don't see that same nuance with, let's say Graham Ashcraft
17:32 who I've heard this time and time again, him called a bulldog.
17:37 And it's true.
17:38 His mentality is whatever pitch is working for me, I'm going to drill it in on the hands.
17:42 I'm going to pitch in and out, up and down and you know, let the chips fall where they
17:47 may.
17:48 I want to see more of that.
17:50 Yeah.
17:51 He's, um, he's a thinking man's ball player.
17:54 And, uh, sometimes that's okay.
17:56 Sometimes that's great.
17:57 Uh, sometimes that works against you.
18:00 What did Yogi Berra used to say?
18:01 Somebody asked him, uh, what do you think about when you go to the place?
18:04 I ain't got time to think.
18:05 I don't, I can't think of anything now that's, that's a hitter, but, and pitchers have to
18:10 spend a little more time on thought.
18:12 But uh, there is something to that.
18:15 Just, you know, get the ball, throw the ball, get the ball, throw the ball.
18:18 And to your point about these second and secondary pitches and maybe something softer, I agree
18:23 with all that, except for this.
18:25 He's supposedly the off speed air quotes off speed pitch.
18:31 And he's most comfortable with is the slider.
18:33 So if that's coming and going all the time, if he can't command that start after start
18:37 after start, I don't want to give him anything else to think about.
18:41 I want, I want him to be on top of that.
18:45 I want that to be the thing he works on between starts that to be the thing he works all spring
18:50 on.
18:51 So get that to where it's there when you need it.
18:54 Like it's not always going to be there no matter who you are, but get it.
18:57 Where is there a three out of four starts instead of every other one?
19:01 I mean, that's the one you're comfortable with and you can win with that.
19:05 And once that's in locked into place, now bring this other one in, bring this other
19:10 one in for show until you're comfortable with that.
19:13 And now, now you've got something going.
19:15 I know you've got to get down to the clubhouse and cover the reds.
19:19 When that clubhouse opens, I want to finish with this of all of the things that has impressed
19:24 me about the red start.
19:25 It's the resiliency.
19:26 They obviously have the suspended Noel Vey Marte early in spring training that happened
19:32 with the PEDs.
19:34 They lost Matt McLean.
19:36 They obviously lost a TJ Friedel to a fractured wrist late in spring training.
19:44 And understandably, their batting average is two 21 as a team.
19:50 And that is 28th in major league baseball.
19:53 Yet they are still finding ways to manufacture runs.
19:57 A lot of that is Ellie Dela Cruz.
19:59 A lot of it is you name whatever player at the top of the order here in the first month
20:05 of the season, they've been pretty consistent at the top of the order.
20:09 And I think that has been remarkable that, that they've been able to win 13 games given
20:15 the fact that they're only hitting two 21 as a team.
20:18 Yeah.
20:19 You, you mentioned the injuries, uh, McLean and Friedel he among them.
20:26 But how about all the guys that got sick?
20:28 Yeah, I was going to mention that your, your favorite subject, Gordon.
20:32 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:34 Well, we ain't going to tell you what it is.
20:36 This guy's whatever.
20:37 I don't continue.
20:39 Yes.
20:40 I'm sorry.
20:41 I interrupted, but it's been a revolving door of guys that have been out of the lineup
20:45 because, because of these blue bug type things or whatever it is that's been going through
20:50 the clubhouse all season.
20:51 I mean like since spring training.
20:54 And so we've seen, uh, you know, Jonathan India more recently, uh, Candelaria and in
20:59 Karachi on strand recently, Frailey, uh, right now.
21:03 And so these are, that's not nothing.
21:06 And they got hammered pretty hard in Seattle, you know, and, and, uh, that's a good pitching
21:10 staff anyway.
21:12 That's where they're going to have trouble, right?
21:13 When you start looking at the injury losses and stuff like they're going to go up against
21:16 some pitching staffs like that.
21:19 And that's, that's why to be good pitching like that, you need good pitching.
21:25 That's where their pitching staff is going to come into play, where it keeps them in
21:27 games.
21:28 They were in two of those Seattle games and then wound up losing late.
21:31 So, uh, you're right.
21:35 Watch the next month.
21:38 They play Philly this week.
21:40 That's a really good team.
21:41 A lot of people think they're going to be back in the world series, but they got Texas
21:44 right after that team that just won the world series.
21:46 They got San Diego on the road right after that, which is still a really good team in
21:52 the next month.
21:53 They have all seven games.
21:54 They're going to play against the Dodgers.
21:56 They have all seven games.
21:57 They're going to play against last year's world series teams.
22:01 They've got a three city, 10 game road trip out West.
22:08 And that's always brutal for a team in Eastern time zone.
22:12 So it is a really grinder, potential soul crusher of a may coming up on the schedule.
22:20 And there's nothing close to it the rest of the year.
22:21 There's no stretch even close to that with no soft spots.
22:26 And so that's going to tell you a lot about that resilience you're talking about.
22:29 And also you're going to get TJ Friedel back at some point in that, in that stretch, it
22:34 might tell you a little bit about TJ Friedel.
22:36 It might tell you something about Ellie Dela Cruz, who's been their best player in April.
22:41 Can he keep that up against all these good teams?
22:44 Will he be the difference maker in some of those games?
22:46 And it'll tell you a lot about your pitching when you face some of those, you know, 200
22:51 and 300 and $400 million lineups.
22:54 All right.
22:56 He is Gordon Wittenmeyer.
22:58 He's great job covering the Reds for the Cincinnati Inquirer and Cincinnati.com.
23:02 Those are the two places you can catch all of his great coverage.
23:06 Gordon, anything you're working on that you want to promote?
23:09 I got another press box, wag column coming in a couple of days.
23:13 Watch out for that.
23:14 And Jason Williams and I just did another one of our, I love those.
23:18 Those are by the way, those are great ideas.
23:22 Who came up with that by the way?
23:24 You know what?
23:25 We put it together 20 years ago in Minnesota and we, we put it together then.
23:30 And actually I did it for a while with Burt Blylevin and we went back and forth on whatever
23:36 was going on with the twins.
23:38 And then Jason and I teamed up on it and the two of us did it and we've got a great relationship,
23:43 a great friendship over the years.
23:45 So it works.
23:46 And, and we always argue anyway.
23:48 So it's perfect.
23:50 We never agree on it.
23:51 By the way, Hall of Famer, Burt Blylevin, correct?
23:54 Correct.
23:55 Yeah.
23:56 And he, which he wasn't back then.
23:57 And I did vote for him even before I met him because that curve ball.
24:03 So correct.
24:04 You know what I remember Burt Blylevin for and Reds fans will remember this from 1979,
24:10 really the last vestiges of the big red machine.
24:14 It was Blylevin who struck out Cesar Geronimo with a curve ball to end the 1979 National
24:20 League Championship Series at Three Rivers Stadium.
24:23 That's what I remember Burt Blylevin for.
24:25 He probably had the best curve ball of his generation.
24:28 Yes.
24:29 And, and I'll tell you this too.
24:31 He played on second division teams a lot.
24:34 When he got to the playoffs, he did well.
24:35 Go back and look, you know, everything's like Jack Morris is a, is, is a great big game
24:39 pitcher and he is.
24:40 Yeah.
24:41 They're postseason numbers.
24:43 Jack Morris and Burt Blylevin, almost identical.
24:45 When Burt got in those big games, he performed and this too, you look at it and say, well,
24:50 how many times did he win 20 games?
24:52 How many times did he do this, that, or the other thing?
24:54 Right.
24:55 He finished second in the Cy Young award voting in 1984.
24:58 He won 19 games in his top three in ERA and strikeouts and all that.
25:04 He finished second to the reliever in Detroit Tigers reliever, William Hernandez.
25:10 Yes.
25:11 And at a time when, and well, I think, I think that time still exists.
25:17 But you don't look at relievers first when you're voting for Cy Young awards.
25:22 The guy that logs a bunch of innings, the guy that was a horse for his team and put
25:26 up great numbers as a starter, that's usually who you vote for.
25:30 He missed his 20th game.
25:32 And I'm convinced that back in the day when wins mattered, he missed two starts, two or
25:38 three starts in the summer because he tripped on a, on a ball, shagging flies during BP
25:45 and, and, and turned his ankle.
25:48 He missed a couple of starts.
25:49 He was pitching so well that year.
25:51 I'm convinced he would have won one of them that would have given him 20 wins.
25:55 And I think a 20 win season would have won him the Cy Young that year.
25:59 I think that's a fair, I think that's a fair point.
26:02 And I think that's probably the case.
26:04 Well, I'm going to let you get a go.
26:06 Gordon, go down to the clubhouse, talk to those Reds players and get ready for David
26:10 Bell as he updates the local media on what's going on with the Reds.
26:15 He is Gordon Whitmire.
26:16 Again, follow him on Cincinnati.com and the Cincinnati Inquirer.
26:20 Gordon, thanks so much.
26:22 Anytime, Mike.
26:23 Thanks, man.
26:24 It was fun.
26:25 All right.
26:26 He's Gordon Whitmire.
26:27 I'm Mike Petraglia-Trags.
26:28 Thanks for downloading this episode of Code Reds.
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