The Boston Herald's Doug Kyed returns to go behind the scenes on his shared reporting with Andrew about the new dysfunction that caused the Patriots' season to sink and the offense to rank dead last in scoring. Later, they discuss what it will feel like if Bill Belichick leaves after Sunday's game and make their game picks for Pats-Jets.
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00:00:00 For Belichick, it was just to continue doing the things the way, you know, coaching the way he wanted to and running his program.
00:00:06 And that included benching Jack Jones and JC Jackson, where they were late, as we reported at the time, to the team hotel for the Commander's game.
00:00:14 And then JC Jackson stays at home for the Germany game.
00:00:17 Jack Jones gets to go.
00:00:18 He does not improve his attitude.
00:00:20 He, in fact, after getting benched to start that game and giving up multiple catches in his first drive against the Colts, has a blow up in the locker room, as I was told, with
00:00:29 Mike Pellegrino, the cornerbacks coach.
00:00:31 He's better than the guys who are starting.
00:00:33 Why isn't he playing more?
00:00:35 Yada, yada, yada.
00:00:36 Well, a day later, he was cut.
00:00:38 Okay.
00:00:43 So two months ago, sitting in a hotel in Frankfurt, Germany, I was with you, Doug Codd of the Boston Herald, the fastest guest to ever return to the Pass Interference Podcast brought to you by Fanduel, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:00:56 And I announced in that hotel room in Germany that this would be the most unprepared, off-the-cuff episode in the history of my podcast.
00:01:03 Lo and behold, we are back now for what will be absolutely no rundown, no prep.
00:01:09 We even, what was it, an ice bucket there with Zach?
00:01:12 I wanted the magic ice bucket of topics that we pulled from.
00:01:15 Yeah.
00:01:16 Yeah.
00:01:16 It was an ice bucket.
00:01:17 We were not in our best shape because we had just flown cross country and lost like six hours of our lives too.
00:01:25 So I think this one will be better.
00:01:28 Maybe not better prepared for, but better.
00:01:30 Yes, for sure.
00:01:32 Because of course we are navel gazing, I think is the appropriate term today.
00:01:37 Talking about our own report, recording here Thursday night, dropped the story this morning, the inside story of the Patriots hitting rock bottom in the Bill Belichick era.
00:01:45 And if you have not read the story, I would encourage you to, not just because obviously that helps us at the Herald, but more to the point.
00:01:53 You will find every little piece of information about the dysfunction that led to 4-12, the lowest scoring offense in the league and issues with the coaching staff, front office and roster that go back to Bill Belichick and Bill O'Brien.
00:02:06 We're going to cover that here.
00:02:07 We're going to have some new information here.
00:02:08 And then we're going to look ahead to Sunday's game, which might be Belichick's last.
00:02:13 And okay, here was our preparation.
00:02:15 Me asking you, what do you think about just talking about this from a personal standpoint, because no one wants to hear about stats or matchups with the Jets.
00:02:22 We'll do a tiny bit of that.
00:02:23 But more from you grew up mostly in New England.
00:02:26 I grew up in New England.
00:02:27 Like this is the end of a 24 year run.
00:02:30 And how do we feel about that personally?
00:02:31 But first, being professional, writing this story, we talked to more than a dozen sources.
00:02:37 We worked on this for months.
00:02:39 And I think the best way to start is to go.
00:02:43 What interested you most?
00:02:46 What shocked you most about everything that went wrong this season, the worst of the Belichick era?
00:02:52 Um, personally, that they were worse than they were last year, because I think that we all kind of thought that the offense hit rock bottom with Matt Patricia and Joe Judge.
00:03:03 And then it somehow got even worse with Bill O'Brien as the offensive coordinator.
00:03:07 And this isn't something that we include in the story, but like someone I was talking to was saying essentially that like Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, like this wasn't him being critical of them.
00:03:17 He was basically like they didn't know what they were doing as offensive coordinators.
00:03:20 Like they'd never been offensive coordinators before.
00:03:22 So they were essentially just like putting plays together in order to score the most points as possible.
00:03:28 I know that sounds like very simple, but they didn't really have like, like a, like a plan, like a scheme in place.
00:03:33 They didn't have a system.
00:03:34 They were just kind of assembling plays.
00:03:36 And that sounds like as, as bad as you could possibly get, but then it somehow got worse when the, when Bill O'Brien came in and actually tried to add a system.
00:03:46 Um, and obviously through our reporting, we kind of figured out why things got worse and why things were as bad and dysfunctional as they were.
00:03:55 But it is pretty amazing that somehow they went from having these two coaches who didn't know how to run an offense or basically just like assembling plays to score points.
00:04:03 Those two guys wound up having a more successful offense that scored more points than Bill O'Brien did.
00:04:10 Far and away, not even close.
00:04:13 And you could talk about injuries, which they had last season at offensive tackle, as they did again this year or quarterback, which put Bailey Zappi on the field last year.
00:04:21 Now it was just Mac Jones breaking before our own very eyes, but that offense was better.
00:04:26 And that offense, we just were all appalled at.
00:04:28 We were offended at watching week after week after week.
00:04:31 There's not enough play action.
00:04:32 There are not real quarterbacks, coaches or offensive line coaches.
00:04:35 That was better.
00:04:36 And it wasn't because of injuries and schedule.
00:04:37 It was due to an offensive coordinator that came in, and this is what shocked me, is just really had no trust for his new assistants, including the most high profile of them, Adrian Clem, who we wish a continued recovery from an ailment that forced him to leave at the end of October.
00:04:53 And then we started unpacking why.
00:04:55 And there's a reason for some of this distrust.
00:04:58 Now, with Clem, it was the fact that he was teaching techniques and drills that were different from what the Patriots have run, even when Dante Skarnecchia weren't here.
00:05:06 But it's been referred to as like the darn Dante Skarnecchia set of drills and techniques that build a good offensive line.
00:05:11 And so he's a guy who came back to New England as O'Brien did, but it's not really part of the Patriot offense.
00:05:17 Then you have a tight ends coach who came in because the Patriots last tight ends coach in the Achilles contract just expired.
00:05:22 And then you have a couple under 30 guys who play defense in college coaching running backs and receivers in Vinny Cincere and Ross Douglas.
00:05:28 So Bill O'Brien, of course, looks around and goes, how am I supposed to work with this?
00:05:32 And yet, I think in the way that he attempted, though he explained otherwise and feels otherwise, was not conducive to a productive, healthy environment that would have not only brought out the best in his own players, which did not from Mack Jones on down, but his own assistants.
00:05:49 And no matter how bad it was, it felt like the Patriots made it worse by how they operated as far as you and I got to learn.
00:05:59 Yeah, I think that Bill Belichick probably could have helped things by giving Bill O'Brien maybe more potential autonomy.
00:06:08 But then Bill O'Brien probably could have helped himself out more by trusting his own staff more.
00:06:14 I think that in all of these cases, it's not like there's no like one person at fault here.
00:06:20 It's not it's not even within the coaching staff, like the coaches fault.
00:06:25 Like the same thing goes for like Adrian Clem, like like Clem probably could have been better, but also the Patriots probably would have been better off if they had known what kind of coaching Adrian Clem had been bringing in and, you know, made sure that there was going to be some crossover and carry over from the previous years or better crossover and carry over from the previous years.
00:06:49 So I think it all just boils down to the fact that like Bill Belichick, still a very good hands on head coach, knows what the other teams got to throw at them, knows what his team needs to do.
00:07:00 But just as far as like putting together an offensive staff and putting together offensive personnel, he's not the best person for that at this point in his career.
00:07:10 So like that, like if there's finger pointing and this is something I talked about with someone where it's like I was asking him, like, is there a lot of clashes between the coaching staff and the front office?
00:07:21 And like there have been, but it it only reaches a certain point because the same person, Bill Belichick, is in charge of both staff.
00:07:30 So like if you're if you're going up the rung, eventually you're going to reach the top of the ladder.
00:07:35 It's the same guy in charge of both.
00:07:37 Right, who's going to tell you calm down or don't worry about it because it's not your job.
00:07:42 It's my job.
00:07:43 And I think I'm doing a fine job now to that point, though, you can go up the ladder and not go to the top.
00:07:49 Right. As Adrian Clem did in confronting Matt Groh.
00:07:53 And we wrote about one such instance.
00:07:55 I'll say here that we could not confirm this.
00:07:58 So do not aggregate this or take it as the same reporting that's all in that story.
00:08:01 Clem had multiple run ins with Matt Groh and some louder than others.
00:08:05 Some it's just football coaches acting away at work that you probably couldn't get away with anywhere else.
00:08:10 But he was upset about not being heard because obviously the talent and that's really the issue here.
00:08:14 Right. Like we can agree the most predictable issues were their worst.
00:08:18 The receivers were not good enough.
00:08:20 The offensive line was not good enough.
00:08:21 Nothing really mattered after that.
00:08:22 Is that fair?
00:08:23 Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:08:24 Yeah. OK.
00:08:25 And so they make things worse.
00:08:26 Like this was never going to be a great season, but it's been an all time worst one because of the stuff you'll find in the story.
00:08:31 And what Clem was upset about was not having enough input.
00:08:35 And the input he did give was ignored.
00:08:37 And so it's of course Matt Groh's right to disagree.
00:08:40 But when Adrian Clem is forced to start a guy at right guard who has spent all of the summer at right tackle in city south,
00:08:48 who's been very good at right guard the last couple of weeks because you know what?
00:08:51 He played there in college, not tackle.
00:08:53 He played guard.
00:08:54 And then instead it tackles Calvin Anderson, who has to speed up his recovery as Mike Onwenu did.
00:08:59 Something else that didn't make the story.
00:09:00 Mike Onwenu should have had an extra two weeks of recovery from the ankle surgery he went.
00:09:05 He came back because of how bad things were.
00:09:06 Anderson's playing after not practicing, starts again against the Dolphins and is the backup at three other games.
00:09:13 We never see him.
00:09:14 So naturally, Adrian Clem is going to be frustrated.
00:09:16 And he let Matt Groh have it, which are things that one such instance that we wrote about was loud enough.
00:09:23 People in the front office heard, the coaches heard.
00:09:25 And again, I don't think the consequence of that single blow up.
00:09:31 Really means a whole lot.
00:09:32 But what it highlights, what it speaks to, what it embodies is the dysfunction that we keep finding as we peel back the layers of how the hell did they get here?
00:09:42 Yeah.
00:09:43 And then he also had some issues with the athleticism of some of the players on the offensive line, which I think the front office would come back with and say like, hey, Calvin Anderson, Tyrone Wheatley, Vidarian Lowe, like these guys have their issues, but it's not necessarily athleticism.
00:10:01 It's more them as technicians, as players.
00:10:04 And then I think that that's where they'd throw it back on Clem and say, like, that's something that you should be able to coach up and and coach better.
00:10:11 So it really does go both ways in almost all of these situations.
00:10:15 And from his perspective, if you're looking at a guy like maybe Riley Reif, who was drafted in what, 2011?
00:10:23 Like that's that's one where you're like, yeah, athleticism probably going to be a problem.
00:10:29 And also, you know, that's where you might want to do a better job checking like, hey, what are the kind of offensive linemen that Adrian Clem works best with?
00:10:40 Who like what are the players that he would want to work with?
00:10:44 Because like just as far as the players that they even drafted, Antonio Maffi, you wouldn't necessarily praise for his athleticism.
00:10:52 Like, I think he's probably a better he's a stronger player than he is an athletic player, whereas Sidi Saou might go the other way.
00:10:58 But no, I mean, I think that that's that's where some of those clashes were coming from, essentially.
00:11:04 All right, now let me ask you this.
00:11:05 You you get a new job, maybe it's at the Boston Herald, and you find out or come to believe that your direct boss would not have hired you, would have cleaned house, fired you, fired me, fired everyone else you work with once he got on board.
00:11:21 And now you have to report to that person for a whole year.
00:11:23 How would you feel about that?
00:11:24 Probably not great about that.
00:11:27 Yeah.
00:11:28 Well, another detail that we unearthed is that's how some offensive assistants felt, according to leak sources about O'Brien.
00:11:36 We could not confirm that ourselves, which is very important to distinguish that from O'Brien.
00:11:42 Yeah, from O'Brien.
00:11:42 Yeah, right.
00:11:43 Yeah, right.
00:11:44 Right.
00:11:44 Yeah.
00:11:45 Yeah.
00:11:45 You know, they had heard that O'Brien, when he got hired in late January, wanted to clean house.
00:11:48 We could not confirm that that's what O'Brien wanted and that he was limited to one hire.
00:11:52 But it's worth noting the only person he was allowed to bring with him, Will Long, replaced a guy whose contract was expired anyway.
00:11:59 So it's no real skin off the Patriots' back.
00:12:01 That's an issue and something that else that kind of speaks to that or would support that if we're making an argument in court.
00:12:08 We're not.
00:12:08 We've reported what we said.
00:12:09 We stand by it.
00:12:10 Bill O'Brien kind of closed ranks during the season.
00:12:14 Like, they held more meetings all together as an offense, quarterback sitting through offensive line drills, receiver sitting through running back tape.
00:12:22 And criticisms than they did in individual position groups.
00:12:25 Now, I don't think this is, again, another thing that is a direct consequence of why they stunk, though.
00:12:29 Dan Orlovsky in late November is tweeting the details of this offense are terrible.
00:12:33 The purpose, the why, the play design, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
00:12:36 That, to me, would explain why Dan Orlovsky was saying that and why certain details or development wasn't happening.
00:12:43 If these guys are not in the rooms with their position coaches, because Bill O'Brien looks around him and goes, I can do better than them.
00:12:50 So I'm just going to keep everyone together and everyone, players and coaches, will have to listen to me.
00:12:54 Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:12:56 And I think that that's like that mistrust in especially the wide receiver and offensive line coaches to coach up and then also develop players has been a major issue.
00:13:11 Because it's a lack of trust.
00:13:14 It's a lack of just certainty.
00:13:17 It's a lack of everything that like if you don't trust them to develop them, if you don't trust them to coach them up, then obviously, like you said, that leads to more full staff meetings.
00:13:26 And those players aren't getting that hands on approach that they might need to actually improve.
00:13:30 So once again, it is kind of like everyone at fault.
00:13:33 And I think that, you know, it is a little bit odd that Bill Belichick has put what seems like such little value in offensive coaches, like especially when you look at maybe not Adrian Klemm.
00:13:47 But if you do look at like the running back and wide receiver situation where I've heard good things about some of these coaches, so I certainly don't want to like lump them all in together.
00:13:57 Like if you've got Vinny Sonseri, who is an NFL safety coaching running back, so if you've got Ross Douglas, who was a college defensive back coaching wide receivers or or Charlie Brown, who was out of the NFL for what, 15, 20 years or whatever it was before he came back to coach.
00:14:12 It all seems to still stem down to like Bill Belichick putting a value on what he decides like something is worth.
00:14:21 And if like if that person or if that position or whatever it is goes above whatever value he decides it's worth, then he's going to let that guy go or not hire someone or not bring someone else in.
00:14:33 So that's also part of what we're talking about, where like if you look back at the coaches that he allowed leave to Las Vegas, I think that's a big part of that.
00:14:41 Like someone like Carmen Bracillo, you just decides at a certain point, like this is what I decide.
00:14:48 This is what I value at.
00:14:49 If someone else is willing to give you more than I'll let you go.
00:14:53 But I think that kind of stems back to offensive coaches in general.
00:14:56 But yeah, no, I think that that lack of trust was obviously a major issue.
00:15:02 And I think it all somewhat stems from the value that Bill Belichick is putting on offensive coaching.
00:15:08 So two things on that you're spot on, and I think it speaks to the whole operation from the draft board in April to the systems you want to run on the offense in July to late game decisions in December revolves still around Bill Belichick.
00:15:23 And if he's wrong or makes some missteps or some misjudgments, he's going to take the whole operation down with him because the Patriots have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league.
00:15:33 The front office goes through him, does not incorporate a lot of analytics in their evaluation, something else that did not make the story, but is absolutely true.
00:15:40 And so more often than not in the dynasty, of course, Bill Belichick was right.
00:15:44 So instead of dragging everything down, everyone rose with him and they had better talent, which speaks to point number two.
00:15:50 They did not see value, as we came to understand, in signing guys that I know I was pining for Mike McGlinchey, Orlando Brown, Jawan Taylor, who got between 16 and 20 million dollars for agency.
00:16:02 These players being elite offensive tackles, plug and play starters.
00:16:05 And to I'll say the Patriots credit, Mike McGlinchey is among the league leaders in pressure allowed.
00:16:11 Orlando Brown's been fine.
00:16:12 He's never been a top 10 offensive tackle.
00:16:14 He's been fine, but he's paid like one.
00:16:15 And so they said instead of overvaluing that or spending bad money, they'll go discount shopping.
00:16:22 And that included the draft where they didn't like those blue chip players.
00:16:26 And that's how you get back to the same problems.
00:16:27 Like a lot of this is new, but with the old coaches out, you still had the talent issue because they just looked at the draft and said, no, we'll spend our first three.
00:16:34 We have a quote about this from a source.
00:16:36 We didn't invest in the offensive line until the fourth round and take a receiver until the six.
00:16:40 How do we spend the first three picks on defense when tackle is the biggest problem on the team last year?
00:16:44 And the answer partly is Bill Belichick.
00:16:46 Yeah, I mean, the Patriots will point out to you or be with certain members of the Patriots will point out to you that like, hey, the guys we didn't sign, like, look at their pressure numbers allowed.
00:16:56 Like we didn't necessarily make the worst decision there.
00:16:58 And something that someone did say to me, which I thought was, you know, obviously a valid point is that like they're not just trying to like, they're trying to build a team and they don't want to sign a player to a long term contract that they don't like or don't feel good about.
00:17:16 So, like, if it's like a one year deal for Riley Reif or something, then, yeah, they're probably more willing to do that.
00:17:22 But if they don't like Mike McGlinchey, if they don't like Orlando Brown, then they don't want to sign those guys to long term deals, because ultimately there's still a long term plan in place.
00:17:33 Like, they're not only building for the 2023 season to be as good as you possibly can.
00:17:40 They're also building for the future when they know that they're going to have more salary cap space in the future and maybe that better option will come along.
00:17:47 So I certainly think that they could have handled the offensive line better this season, but they do raise some valid points about the talent level that was available for the money available.
00:17:58 And then also along the offensive line, like, yes, some of those offensive linemen have wound up being pretty decent.
00:18:04 But like as a whole, this year's offensive tackle class, they didn't feel very good about.
00:18:10 Now, staying with the offensive line, because as I saw it, you're always kind of intrigued when you write these bigger stories of what's going to get aggregated, what resonates most with people, what's interested, what inevitably gets aggregated incorrectly.
00:18:22 And then the blowback comes to you, not, you know, slapdickfootball.com.
00:18:26 They do good work, actually.
00:18:28 Yeah, yeah.
00:18:29 Thank you.
00:18:30 Trent Brown became an issue over the last couple months of the season.
00:18:34 You were first to report this on New Year's Eve right before the Bills game when he was a healthy scratch.
00:18:39 As I had heard before the Pittsburgh or after the Pittsburgh win, excuse me, they come back.
00:18:44 Everyone's in a good mood.
00:18:45 He's talking about playing for an NFC team next year.
00:18:48 And that's a player that you go, OK, Trent Brown's fault.
00:18:51 He's lazy.
00:18:51 He's this, he's that.
00:18:52 He also, for the first two months of the season, played through injury, serious injury and was one of the best offensive linemen in football when he also had incentives added to his contract to say, stay motivated, go get these, go get your money, which very much motivates Trent Brown.
00:19:07 And what I would say is, yes, it's his fault for the second half of that season, being lazy, looking ahead and not being really part of the team.
00:19:14 But the Patriots made themselves beholden to that player whose issues with money and motivation and sometimes weight were well known before we got to the 2023 season.
00:19:25 They knew this in twenty eighteen when he first got here.
00:19:27 And yet, because of the lack of starting caliber tackles around him, he was the one that knew they need me.
00:19:34 I'll do things my way.
00:19:35 And as soon as the tough gets going, there goes Trent Brown.
00:19:37 And that's my big issue with this is that there were options between Riley Reif and Calvin Anderson, a little bit of bad luck, but not a ton.
00:19:45 And signing Orlando Brown and Mike McGlinchey because of just how bad last year was when Trent Brown was healthy for all 17 games.
00:19:52 Find a middle ground.
00:19:53 Those are not just the only two options.
00:19:55 And they didn't.
00:19:56 And I know there are people in the building that felt the same way.
00:19:59 They're on the record.
00:20:00 They're not on the record, but they're in the story.
00:20:03 Well, I mean, there's yeah, you could go pretty far back on the offensive line issues like, yeah, this isn't even necessarily like, like perfectly related to the story.
00:20:13 But I was reading Bill Barnwell's all pro piece from this week, and there were two players on that list who stood out to me.
00:20:19 One is the first team.
00:20:20 One is the second team.
00:20:21 First team was Joe Tooney and the second team was Shaq Mason.
00:20:25 And just imagine how much better the Patriots offensive line would have been in the year 2023 if you had Trent Brown at left tackle Joe Tooney at left guard, David Andrews at center, Shaq Mason at right guard and Michael Wenu at right tackle.
00:20:38 You'd be in pretty good shape there, even if you decided, listen, we don't trust Trent Brown anymore.
00:20:44 Even if you plug Isaiah Wynn in there, who had a really bad season last year, but it was to me mostly related to them just flipping him over to right tackle and hoping that things would work out.
00:20:54 And how pessimistic, by the way, can we stay there for a second?
00:20:56 Like I forget from time to time how from June, I don't know if you were there, but he was, we would ask him about the switch and just the largest frown I've ever seen in a man who's actually smiling, but was like doing it through his teeth in a way that I hate this.
00:21:11 I'm going to do what I'm told.
00:21:12 I'm trying to get my money in a contract year.
00:21:14 And it was just an abject disaster for someone who obviously didn't want to be there.
00:21:17 Yeah, and like, and it was a fixable disaster too, because the season before Trent Brown was playing right tackle and Isaiah Wynn was playing left tackle and.
00:21:26 The offensive line was significantly better in 2021 than it was in 2022, and now that extends to 2023, but like.
00:21:34 You can you can debate like, OK, how do they afford that offensive line that I mentioned?
00:21:40 Yes.
00:21:41 The Eagles have figured it out year after year after year, keeping like the exact offensive line intact and having one of the best offensive lines in football.
00:21:50 They decided in was it 20 or 21, 20, the Joe Tooney is worth franchising, but then they don't sign him to a long term contract.
00:22:00 If at that point when you're franchising left Joe Tooney, you just sign a real long term extension.
00:22:06 Instead, you're in a much better shape monetarily than you don't need to trade Shaq Mason if you're not going to draft Cole Strange.
00:22:14 You can move Michael Wynner to right tackle.
00:22:17 It's just it's a lot like obviously we're dwelling on this, but like they didn't need to get to this point where they were so beholden to Trent Brown, where they do have to treat them differently than the other 52 players on the roster.
00:22:30 Which at a certain point is what they had to do.
00:22:32 And then once Trent Brown was dealing with the ankle knee injuries and once he was missing time, once he knew that he wasn't get the full value of those incentives that they added in September, then basically it all went to hell and it was a miserable situation for the last six or seven weeks.
00:22:44 Perfectly put enough offensive line talk and never transition, though, because the direct consequence of all of that poor offensive line play where their bottom five or no, they're dead last in ESPN's pass block win rate.
00:22:58 Their bottom five and PFFs pass blocking or pass protection grading was the deterioration of Mac Jones, a quarterback.
00:23:07 And Mac is partially responsible for his own downfall.
00:23:10 The team is as well.
00:23:11 We detailed this in October and going into the story.
00:23:13 I mean, you and I said, we don't want to cover old stuff, OK?
00:23:17 We don't want to bring up stuff and just repeat it for the sake of just telling a whole story.
00:23:20 We're going to bring you new stories and understand people reading this know what's happened.
00:23:23 And what happened was Mac Jones got benched four times in 11 games after he completed a career high, 35 passes against the Eagles in the season opener and just completely fell apart.
00:23:36 And there was a real point of no return, really, against New Orleans, where granted he started the next week against the Raiders in Vegas and came close to a comeback, yada, yada.
00:23:44 But that loss, 34 to nothing, three more turnovers, including a pick six against the Saints after he did that against the Cowboys, was when I'd heard he really lost the locker room.
00:23:56 And again, we don't have to go too much into the quarterbacks, but the dynamic of that room and why they were not able to get the best out of those players, which goes back to O'Brien and stuff we talked about earlier, was really interesting.
00:24:09 Well, yeah, I mean, multiple people told me that they could have used, I hate to say like adult in the room because...
00:24:16 That's what it was.
00:24:17 That's what it was.
00:24:18 Well, that is what they needed.
00:24:22 I just don't want to say that like Will Greer wasn't an adult or something like that.
00:24:25 I don't like to trace me, sorry.
00:24:26 An adult is gay, stick around.
00:24:27 Yeah, yeah.
00:24:28 No, like they needed someone to push everyone in the right direction.
00:24:32 But like these issues stem from even last year where like Mac Jones is struggling, Bailey Zappi comes in and plays well, and then Bill Belichick opens it up coming into this season, being like, we're going to have a quarterback competition, which never came to be.
00:24:45 But then that leaves Mac Jones and Bailey Zappi in this competitive mode where they're both striving for their best interests.
00:24:53 They have very different personalities, like one's from Texas, one's from Jacksonville.
00:24:58 Like they're just two very different human beings who are right around the same age, who have the same personal goals, which are to be a starting NFL quarterback.
00:25:07 Obviously, they also want to win games.
00:25:09 But if you're creating an individual competition between two players, then that does take away some of the motivation to help the team win by doing what's best for the other person.
00:25:24 And like, I think that even way back in March, when they cut Brian Hoyer, that's where this all kind of started, because then you bring in Trace McSorley, who was in a good position as someone who clearly wasn't as good as Mac Jones or Bailey Zappi, but he was so bad this summer that they had to move on from him.
00:25:46 Then you get in the situation with Matt Corral, who had his own issues.
00:25:50 Then you bring in Ian Book for like a day or two, and then you bring in Will Greer, who possibly could have been that person to bridge that gap and push everyone in the right direction.
00:26:00 But he's then learning the offense and trying to figure out why he's even there, figuring out if like, "Hey, I was told I may get to compete."
00:26:08 - That's another issue. It's just there are no clearly defined roles here. And when the roles were clearly defined, there's one starter, it's Mac, and then there are backups.
00:26:19 And then the roles were reversed. No one is abiding by those roles. Like there's no universal support for the starter, which is how virtually every other quarterback's room in the league works.
00:26:27 But it didn't work in New England, because as we had heard, they don't talk, Mac and Zappi. They're cordial, and that's fine.
00:26:34 And then when Will Greer comes in and is signed to the active roster, which is, "We value you. You're on a practice squad. You got cut at the end of training camp by the Cowboys. Go to Cincinnati? No, we'll take you."
00:26:44 It just feels like a lie, because he's also coming into that room, watching them play, practice, bomb, and be like, "Okay, I haven't played since 2019. I'm better than this." And doesn't even get a shot.
00:26:55 Yeah. And when you're brought in being like, "Hey, you could probably push this. Bailey's been bad. You could push this guy. You could..." But then it's not realistic, because trying to pass a backup on the depth chart when you're brought in three or four weeks in the season and having to learn the entire offense, it's just not a realistic scenario that you're even bringing this guy into.
00:27:18 So it's unfair to everyone in the situation. Like you said, you just don't have those clear defined roles of, "This young guy is our starter. This veteran guy is the backup. He is not better than the starter. He is going to be a support system."
00:27:32 And then you have a third guy who's a younger guy, who you're developing. There's no expectations for him. I think that ultimately probably would have been... It was tough to do after last year, because obviously Bailey Zappi still had value to the team since he had been good as a backup starter in two games.
00:27:50 So you couldn't just get rid of him out of the offset, but maybe he could have slotted into that third role and then you would still have someone like Brian Hoyer or someone else in that veteran role behind Mac Jones in a clearly defined role to be like, "You are the guy who is not going to start, who is not better than this guy, whose sole role is to support the others around you." And they never really had that.
00:28:12 Alright, a couple more tidbits and then let's move on. Because there's a lot of stuff after that Saints game and even later that we picked up and really wasn't thrown into the end, but I think is important as we go moving forward.
00:28:23 Number one, the reason that Bailey Zappi didn't start earlier, as we've said before, is that he was playing poorly in practice. He was throwing, as Mac struggled, as many interceptions, if not more. He was not accurate. He was 7 of 18 in his first two games in mop-up duty. Basic coverages, same defense, just chuck it and go. Couldn't do it.
00:28:43 And he's like checking down to players and scout team, which is something which defeats the whole exercise of like playing a competitive quarterback against your starting defense. He was like, "No, I need you to throw the backside dig so we can look at what that'll look like from Sam Howell or two or whatever it might be."
00:29:00 The other part is, you know, we did have quotes from Zappi about how Mac was. They're in the story to get his side of the story on the record and the room as a whole. The last part, zooming out, some people felt that Mac Jones got a raw deal that I had talked to. And they say, "New quarterbacks, coaches, new offensive plate, college, yada, yada."
00:29:19 And then others go, "Look, when you hold the ball, as Belichick likes to say, you hold more than the team. You hold a region, everyone's fate, all at once." Mac Jones clearly dropped the ball a lot on this. And that's why it ended the way that it did for him and Billy Zappi's continued to go on.
00:29:35 Not to mention, like, Bill O'Brien is now with those two and Nathan Rourke in his room. You or somebody asked him about Nathan Rourke a couple weeks ago. He goes, "Yeah, I just saw him in the hallway. We're going to figure this out."
00:29:49 The quarterbacks coach, the offensive coordinator, just has the same reaction as if you were doing those interviews on the street for some TV show. "Hey, what do you think about Nathan Rourke this season?" "Well, you know, I saw he got signed." That's it, period. End of reaction. It's a crazy, crazy room.
00:30:06 It was a Tuesday. He got claimed on a Monday. And on Tuesday, I asked Bill O'Brien about it. He's like, "Oh, yeah, I just found out that we claimed him." Granted, the power was out at the time. There had just been a storm. But still, you think that information would have been passed on to Bill O'Brien. And he would have slapped on his generator and tried to watch some Nathan Rourke film. And that had not happened by the time I asked him that question.
00:30:28 So the end of the story speaks to how they proceed. They're only fighting for pride, only for their own tape, their futures, etc. And for Belichick, it was just to continue doing the things, coaching the way he wanted to and running his program. And that included benching Jack Jones and JC Jackson, where they were late, as we reported at the time, to the team hotel before the Commanders game.
00:30:52 And then JC Jackson stays at home for the Germany game. Jack Jones gets to go. He does not improve his attitude. He, in fact, after getting benched to start that game and giving up multiple catches in his first drive against the Colts, has a blow up in the locker room, as I was told, with Mike Pellegrino, the cornerbacks coach. He's better than the guys who were starting. Why isn't he playing more? Yada, yada, yada. Well, a day later, he was cut.
00:31:16 And this was Bill who had had enough. Jack Jones was not playing well enough. We get into the Trent Brown stuff where he's taking a little bit too long, according to Mike Giardi, by the team's liking, to recover. And he's benched last week, according to your reporting. It's been a problem for weeks, the motivation. And amid that, in between, you have defensive players who were speaking out to me, Adrian Phillips and Devon Gottschalk, being like, "Well, I guess we've got to hold them to zero." So there's this kind of unraveling. Say again?
00:31:44 "Guess we've got to score on defense."
00:31:45 Yeah, score on defense. Right, right. That happens. And Bill's trying to keep it all together. And to his credit, which there's a quote at the end we're going to say, they generally marched in the same direction. But there are things happening here that you've just never really seen in Foxborough. And maybe once or twice, guys getting cut mid-season, fine. But not all together. Not in such a short time. And that was just the whole experience of the season, not only just from a losing standpoint, but how the team is going about its business.
00:32:13 Yeah, no. It's like, I mean, Bill Belichick was trying to patch things up and make things work. And even just like, you know, bringing back JC Jackson in the first place, he's just trying to kind of patch up the defense as best he can after they lose Christian Gonzalez and Marcus Jones and everything like that. And you can't blame him for trying. But then it creates all these other issues within the team.
00:32:37 And I think you do have to give him credit for disciplining Jack Jones and disciplining JC Jackson for doing these things. But then like we were talking about, then you're kind of holding Trent Brown in a different regard until this past weekend when they finally had him as a healthy scratch.
00:32:53 So, no, I mean, it's I think it's obviously been a very trying season for Bill Belichick. But like from people that I talked to, they still have faith in him as a coach. Like I was saying earlier, it's just like his ability to put the pieces in place that he needs to succeed. Like his own. We've been saying this or people have been saying this for years. Like Bill Belichick, the GM is holding back Bill Belichick, the coach.
00:33:18 I don't think there's ever been a better example of that than this year when people are saying that like Bill Belichick is telling them exactly what's going to happen in the game, like how the Patriots can stop it, what the Patriots need to do, what the Patriots can't do in order to not lose.
00:33:31 And they wind up doing it anyway. Like that's only because he doesn't have enough talent on the team, especially on offense. And that's just his own decision making and wide receiver, offensive line and along the like with his offensive coaching.
00:33:47 So I don't know what this necessarily means for Bill Belichick's future. Mike Reese reported today that he Bill Belichick and Bill Belichick, Jonathan Kraft and Robert Kraft are all going to meet on Monday to decide his future.
00:33:59 I have a hard time believing that Bill Belichick would give up, say on offensive personnel or personnel in general or coaching in general. If he does, I do think that's probably what's best for the Patriots for Bill Belichick to stay on his head coach, but give up some of those duties.
00:34:13 I just still have a hard time believing that Bill Belichick is going to be willing to take that ego hit in order to do that.
00:34:20 Right. And find someone who's aligned with him philosophically, that the crafts would trust to think and be their own person, which is going to cause some conflict because you want your head coach and GM in alignment that are always not going to agree, but be from the same tree or philosophy or just way of living life in the NFL.
00:34:40 So a couple more tidbits. James Ferentz, assistant offensive line coach. Who knew Bill started setting the room as far as the direction, how they wanted to change your techniques and drills, did not run meetings all that much.
00:34:54 Certainly not run drills at practice, but it was James Ferentz and Billy Yates, multiple assistants. Billy Yates might be in this group. I'm not sure. But I do know others are in contract years.
00:35:04 We'll do not expect Adrian Clem to come back again, wishing him a full recovery just based on fit. I think his experience, obviously, if Bill leaves, it's going to be hard to argue for him to come back for anyone who takes over.
00:35:15 And there was one more note I had in here. Oh, well, we could talk about Malik Cunningham, but, you know, someone told Malik Cunningham when he left, hey, you did the right thing.
00:35:27 And granted, he went to the now number one seed in the AFC when he got signed by the Ravens. But it was no accident the outpouring of support he had in the locker room on social media that week because people were telling him, go, go, get out of here.
00:35:37 Something, again, you would just never hear in Foxborough. I think it's interesting to hear the split opinions about Malik Cunningham, you know, between players, coaches, front office, because there are still people who look at Malik Cunningham as like, this guy was not a great college quarterback.
00:35:55 He went undrafted for a reason. He was moved to wide receiver after they saw him in rookie minicamp. And that like, it's like, yeah, they could have put him in there like in the Raiders game.
00:36:08 They had him as the backup. So I think the idea was like, OK, this thing's not working with Mac. Like if Mac goes down, we'll see what it looks like with Malik Cunningham.
00:36:17 But it was described to me as like, if Malik Cunningham's in there, it's not really a real offense. And like for players, if they see him in practice every day and see him be an explosive playmaker and see like the dynamic plays, you can certainly understand them being like, why isn't this guy playing?
00:36:33 Why isn't he on the field? Why isn't he taking snaps at center? But if you're constructing an offense and if he doesn't fit that offense, then it's hard to convince yourself that he's the best option for you.
00:36:43 Right. We don't need to relitigate the whole thing. It's just more the messaging around that in the exit when season had a lot more to go. Players liked him, thought he was good. People in the building liked him, thought he could help. And they were happy to see him leave.
00:36:54 All right. Bill Belichick might leave on Monday, as you mentioned. And like I said, at the Open, I don't want to spend a whole lot more time talking about this in the same way that we have the last couple of months.
00:37:07 I believe it's in the team's best interest to let him go. But before we get to that, let me say this, because I think it's important for people to know the process of how we put this story together. Right? Because there's a lot of unnamed sources that contributed to this. And you might be tempted to go, well, I don't believe it. It's not true. Go on the record.
00:37:26 Anyone who does that breaks one of basically two rules when you come to New England. Be on time. Don't mess with the media. Like baked into that is try your best. Do right by the team. But the media part is big under Belichick. And so the consequences are clear for anyone who does. But my approach to this story and speaking with everyone was very simple.
00:37:49 It was just to go, hey, my job is to speak on TV, radio, my own podcast and to write about you guys. And the best way for me to get that right is to actually talk to you first. So if you want me to get this right, as I talk to other people and get their versions of the truth, set me straight. That's all. Tell me what had happened. Because you're not going to get that from Bill. We all know that on Wednesdays and Fridays. But what's really happening here? And asking as many people in the locker room, front office, the coaching staff to build a consensus on what had happened.
00:38:17 So this is not anyone throwing bleep at the wall or hiding behind fake sources. Doug and I don't do nonfiction. We do hard reporting over months and calls and texts and conversations, which sometimes happen right there in the building and then build all that together and produce it here for you in a story like this, because you're not finding this anywhere else.
00:38:37 Yeah, I mean, people are happy to provide context behind decisions or like give reasoning behind what happened. And they're also happy to kind of give their side of the story, because I'm sure like part of our job is to parse out like what is and isn't accurate based on what people are giving us, because everyone's got their own self-interest at hand and no one wants to take on the full blame for a situation.
00:39:04 So that's why it's important to talk to as many people as we do in this situation, too, so that you're not only getting one side of the story and all the blame is going on whoever that guy doesn't like in a certain moment.
00:39:16 So, no, I mean, yeah, this took a long time to put together. And, you know, we've you have made it kind of a pattern to do this at the end of the season. We did this about Mac Jones at the midway point of the season.
00:39:30 And yeah, like I said, people are happy to provide context behind when things are not going well.
00:39:36 All right, off the journalism podium there. So, Bill, again, I don't want to talk about Bill potentially leaving. Could be Monday if they tried to mutually part ways or maybe he puts up stink. I don't know. I don't really care in this moment. Will he go? Could he go? Should he go? Whatever.
00:39:54 I want to talk about just the idea that he's been the head coach since 2000. We are in 2024. Almost slipped up. And for a lot of fans like this has been the majority of their lifetime. The Patriots, as we know them, dynasty, first class, all of the winning greatest coach of all time.
00:40:13 Granted, that's not happened the last few years, but to have that void or that person to be replaced as main character, not just in your sports life, but in American sports suddenly gone and somebody who watched them as a kid growing up, you did the same.
00:40:26 Like, I have a column coming about this tomorrow. And the point is basically, look, I can both feel a certain way, which is gratitude for everything Belichick accomplished and write about why it's been so dysfunctional over his watch the last two years.
00:40:39 That's being human. And when you think about other people that leave your life in whatever fashion or form, whatever level of seriousness, like, what would you want to say to them at the end?
00:40:49 More often than not is thank you. And so I encourage people to feel that way, because I think that's how life is best lived at these exits. If Bell does exit, I don't know.
00:41:00 Before you say goodbye, because all it takes is just a little bit of forethought and saying that, though people still think that the impetus for this was someone emailing me saying, I hate Belichick and it's blinding me.
00:41:11 It's not the case. Read the column. I'm done.
00:41:13 Your turn. Yeah.
00:41:15 I mean, I would personally hope that no matter what happens after Sunday's game, that like Bill Belichick, Matthew Slater, no matter what happens to them, you got like a very respectful ovation at this game that I was seeing today.
00:41:32 Like, it's going to be dangerous to drive.
00:41:33 So hopefully people even get to this game.
00:41:35 Like, there's going to be a bunch of snow on the road, high winds, all that kind of stuff.
00:41:39 I know I'm going to be leaving my house very early, but like, just kind of like looking behind me.
00:41:43 I've got like all of these programs from Super Bowls that I've been to.
00:41:47 And like, I don't get those opportunities without Bill Belichick being head coach of the Patriots.
00:41:53 I've got a program from the 2020, the 2002 Snowbowl between the Patriots and Raiders behind me.
00:42:00 And like, that obviously doesn't happen without Bill Belichick being head coach.
00:42:04 So like, I think it's important as media to obviously you have to cover someone down the middle and Bill Belichick makes that very easy by how he treats the media on a day to day basis.
00:42:17 But also in a situation like this, where this could very well be his last game, like to have some gratitude, because without Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, like a lot of people in this industry wouldn't have these jobs.
00:42:30 Like the Patriots have a gigantic media contingency because the Patriots have been as successful as they've been.
00:42:37 And that shouldn't have you covering a person differently because like you're grateful for them, but you can at least express that in the right opportunities, which I think is now is one of those times that you can do it.
00:42:51 And it certainly would happen as well if he does actually wind up moving on from the team.
00:42:55 But no, I mean, it's been like it's the equivalent of getting to cover like I always compared covering Tom Brady, like covering Babe Ruth, like how many people get to say that they were covering Babe Ruth.
00:43:07 And for Bill Belichick, it's the equivalent of covering like Vince Lombardi or, you know, like George Hallis or something like that.
00:43:15 Like you're definitely fortunate to be able to be around these people and to pick their brain and ask them questions and just kind of communicate with them on a day to day basis.
00:43:25 Yeah, for sure.
00:43:27 I mean, you know, I can go to my childhood and some of the best memories, the highest joys were watching this team and the victories and the things you felt like you were a part of.
00:43:34 And the fabric of New England has permanently been changed.
00:43:36 Like this was title town because of the this became title town because of the Patriots.
00:43:41 Like we're better than you and we know it, speaking we as a fan here.
00:43:45 Look at the Super Bowls.
00:43:46 Look at the coach.
00:43:47 Look at the quarterback.
00:43:48 Greatest, greatest, greatest of all time.
00:43:50 Most of all time.
00:43:51 And so I know like you put really well, I've been places and seen things and done things that never would have been possible had I landed covering the Jacksville Jaguars or basically all of the other 31 teams.
00:44:04 And for that, I am grateful.
00:44:06 It doesn't mean you can't be critical at the same time in the same way that I think people express this about, you know, people they work with or their friends with or their family, like love for something, which would be in this case, my job is or a person is not expressed solely through all positive feelings.
00:44:24 Like there's a way to say this needs to be better to be critical, to give constructive criticism and feedback.
00:44:30 And you can do that at the same time as love what you're doing or what you're covering.
00:44:34 Obviously, that's football.
00:44:35 Cover the Patriots.
00:44:36 It's been great.
00:44:37 That allows you to go back and forth between like, hey, I'm a professional.
00:44:41 I'm going to be objective, but also feel good things as we're explaining now and be critical at the same time.
00:44:46 Because you're saying this is in the best interest of the team.
00:44:49 This is the public trust that is the New England Patriots that affects millions of people, mostly on Sundays, but in a way that's deeper than I think people not tied to sports really feel.
00:45:01 Because I know how I felt in those stands and watching those games and in speaking with my friends or family who still follow along, like it's important.
00:45:09 And to be this close for so long and to be this close to greatness for this long has meant a lot.
00:45:15 And maybe it'll continue.
00:45:17 I don't know.
00:45:17 Who knows?
00:45:17 I don't really care to guess, but the time might be here.
00:45:22 So that's why I think it's worth pausing.
00:45:24 How much do you love, by the way?
00:45:26 And I'll just say this.
00:45:29 I'm in the locker room talking with someone.
00:45:31 And finish the interview for a story on Sunday.
00:45:34 Teaser, it's about Matthew Slater.
00:45:36 Get a tap on the shoulder.
00:45:38 And it's Brian Belichick, safety scopes, just walking through.
00:45:40 Saw me.
00:45:41 I've spoken with Brian before.
00:45:42 And he's like, "What's up, man?"
00:45:45 He's got this big smile on my face.
00:45:47 And I'm thinking about our story, being like, "Oh, shit."
00:45:51 He is absolutely just being like, "Yeah, I really appreciate that.
00:45:55 Great story.
00:45:55 Made us look really good."
00:45:57 Granted, Brian's not in there.
00:45:58 And I was like, last time I'd seen him was on Zoom in person.
00:46:02 I covered a clinic that he was talking about in April.
00:46:05 And that's been it since.
00:46:06 I was like, "Good."
00:46:07 I was like, "Hey, how much do you love 'It's the Jets' on Sunday?"
00:46:10 And he just kept smiling.
00:46:12 Now, it still might have been.
00:46:13 I don't even know how he felt.
00:46:14 That was the extent of the interaction.
00:46:16 But he was like, "I love it."
00:46:18 In the snow.
00:46:19 And then just walked away.
00:46:20 And I was like, "Good."
00:46:23 Because even if this is not Bill leaving after this game,
00:46:27 it's just at the end of his worst season, he can still stick it to the Jets.
00:46:31 There's beautiful, petty poetry in that on Sunday.
00:46:36 There is.
00:46:38 And I will say that people spoke highly of the defensive coaches.
00:46:45 And obviously, that didn't make the piece because the issues have been on the offense.
00:46:48 But Brian Belichick, from an X's and O's standpoint,
00:46:52 like Gerard and Steve running that defense,
00:46:55 Demarcus Covington could be a defensive coordinator next year.
00:46:59 Mike Pellegrino does a good job with the cornerbacks.
00:47:01 That staff, which goes to show that that's what Bill Belichick knows and values,
00:47:06 is a very strong one.
00:47:07 And if Bill does go, and if Steve and Brian follow him,
00:47:13 I think it does weaken that defensive staff.
00:47:15 And I think that then you've got to fill in some of those pieces.
00:47:17 So very curious to see what happens on the defensive staff,
00:47:21 depending on what happens with Bill.
00:47:23 But no, it's the Jets.
00:47:25 And I mean, I know it's fun to beat the Jets,
00:47:30 but this is at the same time a game the Patriots kind of need to lose.
00:47:35 Just to stay as high up in that draft order as possible.
00:47:40 I hate to say that, but it really, I don't know, it could get rough out there.
00:47:45 Yeah.
00:47:45 Let's talk about the game quickly and get out of here.
00:47:48 We usually do the 3-2-1, keys, matchups, and wildcard.
00:47:52 Let's just do that.
00:47:53 I'll start as far as the keys.
00:47:54 You've got to be able to block Quentin Williams on pass place.
00:47:59 You saw a lot of internal pressure from the Bills on Sunday.
00:48:02 Obviously, no quarterback loves internal pressure, but that dude doesn't, you know,
00:48:06 the Jets don't need to send blitzes, and they don't.
00:48:08 The second lowest blitz rate in the league.
00:48:11 And it's because Quentin Williams is so good at just getting by your centers and your guards.
00:48:15 Patriots, obviously, dealing with a rookie or backup at both guard spots.
00:48:19 And then David Andrews.
00:48:21 If they can neutralize him in the snow, which would be an advantage to the offensive line,
00:48:24 pass rushers hate the snow.
00:48:26 That's great.
00:48:27 If not, he could single-handedly lead to a turnover that changes the game.
00:48:32 Strip sack, forcing an interception, QB hit, whatever.
00:48:36 But that's number one for me as far as an offensive.
00:48:38 It's not going to run the ball particularly well and hasn't in three weeks.
00:48:41 But passing, you at least have to give Bailey's happy time,
00:48:44 and especially directly in front of him.
00:48:47 Yeah, I mean, I'd say something like to go on the opposite end.
00:48:51 Like, you've got Trevor Simeon that you're playing on the other side of the ball.
00:48:55 Like, it's pretty easy to force turnovers against Trevor Simeon.
00:48:59 The Patriots just have to be able to capitalize off of those,
00:49:03 because that's something that they've had a harder time doing on offense.
00:49:06 On defense, when the Patriots turn the ball over,
00:49:11 their defense typically does an amazing job of stepping up
00:49:15 and either not allowing a touchdown, limiting teams to a field goal.
00:49:18 Patriots offense, when they do get those turnovers against Trevor Simeon,
00:49:22 and even a potential fumble with Brees Hall in the snow,
00:49:26 the offense just needs to be able to capitalize on it
00:49:29 and not trip over themselves out there on offense,
00:49:32 which is something that people have kind of mentioned
00:49:35 that Patriots have a hard time not doing, is tripping over themselves.
00:49:39 I also think they can post a shutout,
00:49:42 and the best way to do that is to handle Garrett Wilson.
00:49:45 This seems easy, right?
00:49:46 He's only averaged about four and a half catches per game against Patriots
00:49:50 in around 58 yards, which was really blown out by that first game last year.
00:49:53 But Trevor Simeon's not going to win this game on his own.
00:49:56 Wilson has 70 more targets than anyone on the offense.
00:49:58 The offense stinks.
00:49:59 It's boring. It's bad.
00:50:00 The offensive line is not very good.
00:50:01 So I don't think Brees Hall is going to hurt them.
00:50:04 But Garrett Wilson shakes loose, breaks a tackle.
00:50:07 That's six points right there.
00:50:09 And that six points, Patriots might not be able to give away.
00:50:12 So I think you're right as far as getting a turnover.
00:50:14 But if you just limit them, you might win this game six nothing.
00:50:19 And I'm laughing because it will be ugly to watch all of that.
00:50:22 But that's how bad the Jets have been on offense.
00:50:24 Like the deeper numbers, Patriots are last in scoring.
00:50:26 The deeper numbers would tell you they've been worse on offense
00:50:29 than the Patriots this year.
00:50:30 And the only way that you can avoid losing 7-6 rather than winning 6-0
00:50:37 is to once again prevent turnovers on offense.
00:50:42 And obviously you mentioned that very well with Quinlan Williams,
00:50:44 but Soss Gardner is their other best defensive player.
00:50:47 And I think that Billy Zappi is smart enough to stay as far away from Soss Gardner as possible.
00:50:53 But I mean, they've got some other talented defenders on that roster as well.
00:50:56 DJ Reid, a very good cornerback too.
00:50:59 And like you could very easily make mistakes against that Jets secondary.
00:51:03 So that's the best way that the Jets are going to put points on the board
00:51:08 is either scoring on defense off of a turnover
00:51:12 or putting the Jets offense in such an advantageous position, field position-wise,
00:51:16 that they basically have no choice but to score a touchdown.
00:51:19 All right, two matchups.
00:51:21 I kind of gave two already.
00:51:22 David Andrews and Quinlan Williams and then any double team of Gare Wilson.
00:51:27 But looking on the other side,
00:51:29 Patriots tackling for the most part has been pretty solid this year.
00:51:33 And so I'm just looking at some of that linebacking core that's banked up.
00:51:36 Jelani Tavai has a tooth injury.
00:51:38 All of a sudden, Jawan Bentley has been like, so-so.
00:51:40 Yeah, you need to wrap up against Brees Hall.
00:51:44 So I'm looking at that second level and just saying,
00:51:46 I think the defensive line is going to have an advantage
00:51:49 against a bad interior line for the Jets.
00:51:51 So when you come and crash in, don't miss.
00:51:53 Brees Hall versus this linebacking core is another one
00:51:56 that I just think they can win that.
00:51:58 It's more as, OK, if you lose this, then you're in trouble.
00:52:02 Can my matchup be Chad Ryland versus the wind?
00:52:05 Yes, absolutely.
00:52:08 That's honestly the one that I'm most intrigued by because it's
00:52:13 gone down since this point, but I looked at the forecast on Tuesday
00:52:17 and I was like, oh, God, snow and max gusts up to 52 miles per hour.
00:52:23 Like you basically can't kick in those conditions.
00:52:26 I think it's gone down to like the 25, 30 mile per hour range.
00:52:29 We'll see what it's like at game time.
00:52:30 But like even that, with the way that Chad Ryland has been missing
00:52:34 some field goals this season, like this could be a true adventure
00:52:37 for the Patriots kicking wise.
00:52:39 And I could envision a scenario where like Bill Belichick wants
00:52:43 to win this game so badly, like he I don't see him trusting Chad
00:52:49 Ryland in this game in these conditions unless it's like
00:52:53 an absolutely perfect situation.
00:52:55 So you could see some like you could even see some like wild
00:52:58 punts in this game.
00:52:59 Like, like I could envision the Patriots like punting from like
00:53:03 the Jets 35 or 40 yard line.
00:53:06 It might be one of those like crazy field position, old school
00:53:10 battles if the weather really is as bad as it looks like it could be.
00:53:13 So I'm glad you brought up Chad Ryland.
00:53:16 I chatted with him for a while, mentioned on this podcast, covered
00:53:19 him in high school, just incredible coincidence that he's back here.
00:53:22 And so am I.
00:53:23 And I was asking about the weather.
00:53:26 He says, I hope it snows a foot.
00:53:28 I was like, come again?
00:53:29 I hope it snows.
00:53:32 I want all the bad weather.
00:53:33 And this is a guy who we saw in Denver can have some of the worst
00:53:36 misses of his season, young career, and then go and nail a 56 yarder.
00:53:41 He still has the worst field goal percentage in the entire league.
00:53:44 I wish I had that confidence when I was that young.
00:53:46 But he wants it to snow.
00:53:48 He also said he's going to go back to an older routine this offseason,
00:53:52 which struck me as interesting.
00:53:54 And granted, I don't think you get much worse than he's been this year.
00:53:57 So if he goes back to some routine and changes up something about
00:54:00 his approach, seems like a good idea.
00:54:03 I think just naturally he'll be better next year.
00:54:05 He's going to have competition.
00:54:06 But that was interesting that he said both of those things to me, at least.
00:54:11 Definitely interesting.
00:54:13 And it'll make for a fun story if he's significantly better next year,
00:54:18 taking this new approach to learn about what that approach is and how it helped him.
00:54:22 Yeah.
00:54:23 All right.
00:54:23 Wild card for me.
00:54:25 I'm really intrigued about the crowd.
00:54:26 Yeah.
00:54:29 Do they do they boot?
00:54:30 I mean, a halftime lead against the Jets is not going to feel good, but you're still not.
00:54:33 I would be the least likely outcome is a blowout against the Jets.
00:54:37 So if you're down 3-0, you're down 10-0, I would just say wait.
00:54:40 Like history tells you the team that has not lost to the Jets since 2015 will bring this around.
00:54:45 Granted, again, this has been a historic season for a lot of the wrong reasons.
00:54:48 But did they shout at the end, "Thank you, Bill," or some iteration of that?
00:54:53 If there's a win, if there's a big win, a "Please stay, Bill," or anything about the
00:54:57 crafts, the attendance is one thing with the snow, but is there an engagement level
00:55:02 that speaks to something that maybe you don't hear on talk radio or people yelling at me on Twitter
00:55:08 that tend to be more negative?
00:55:10 Again, dependent on the outcome, but it's a big game for the crowd.
00:55:13 It is.
00:55:15 Have you looked up seat prices or anything for this game?
00:55:18 No.
00:55:18 Are you doing that right now?
00:55:19 I was in the process of starting to buy more time.
00:55:23 And think of Belichick-related chance that could be set.
00:55:26 No, I can look this up while I'm speaking.
00:55:28 I'm pretty good at doing that.
00:55:29 I do that with my family, my children all the time, talking to them while I'm on my phone.
00:55:33 But I'm most intrigued by Bill Belichick and how he acts both, I don't know when this is
00:55:43 going to come out, but like Friday at 11 a.m. in his press conference with us, and then also
00:55:48 on Sunday in his postgame press conference.
00:55:51 You can get into the stadium for $25 for one ticket, $26, eight tickets together.
00:55:59 So this is a very cheap ticket to get into.
00:56:01 I'm a little bit surprised by that since it could be Bill Belichick's last game.
00:56:04 But I digress.
00:56:05 I think Bill will probably just handle these pressers like any other week since,
00:56:12 you know, according to Mike Reese's report, no decision has been made.
00:56:16 There's going to be a meeting on Monday.
00:56:17 So Bill Belichick presumably even has no idea what's going to happen after this game.
00:56:22 But like, does he do a Friday bill tomorrow?
00:56:26 Is he kind of sullen like he was on Monday and Wednesday after the game?
00:56:32 Does he give his typical like, gotta watch the film, blah, blah, blah.
00:56:37 Or do we see a different side of him since this could be his last game?
00:56:40 I lean towards him just being the same guy that we've always known and
00:56:44 unpredictable and all those things, but I don't know.
00:56:47 It's just it's worth wondering.
00:56:50 It is.
00:56:52 I am trying to think what I think we'll get.
00:56:55 I think it'll be, I think it's going to be a sour Bill Friday.
00:57:00 I've really enjoyed the return of Friday Bill.
00:57:02 We had two Bill Fridays in a row with Bill.
00:57:04 I know.
00:57:05 I just think he's irritated.
00:57:09 He'll expect what's coming.
00:57:11 Like Wednesday was bad just from like an openness standpoint.
00:57:15 Like whoever he is, I don't care.
00:57:16 Like I can do my job regardless.
00:57:18 But when you just think about a mood, I think he knows what we're going to ask.
00:57:25 I don't think he wants to engage because he hasn't.
00:57:28 I'm hoping I'm wrong.
00:57:29 And then Sunday post game, the real interesting part will be if they win.
00:57:35 Because if they lose, it is going to be all time bad Bill.
00:57:38 I'm talking about grunts, sneers, glares, no words, awkward silence.
00:57:43 Like the absolute works of post game Bill after losses, especially the Jets, possibly
00:57:49 his last game questions about his future, yada, yada.
00:57:51 He will be, I believe, scheduled for a Wednesday morning press conference.
00:57:54 If I'm him and I think I'm on my way out, I probably just skip that.
00:57:59 Yeah, take whatever fine.
00:58:00 But I mean, we're getting ahead of ourselves.
00:58:01 You asked about tomorrow and Sunday.
00:58:03 It's so Wednesday morning.
00:58:08 Wednesday?
00:58:08 No, he usually does these right away.
00:58:11 No, I thought you said he'd be scheduled for a Wednesday morning.
00:58:14 Did you mean?
00:58:14 No, I think Monday.
00:58:15 Monday.
00:58:15 If I said Wednesday, I meant Monday.
00:58:16 You said Wednesday, yeah.
00:58:17 Based on his history, just a guess.
00:58:19 But no, that's a really great call.
00:58:23 It's a bizarre situation.
00:58:24 If they are meeting on Monday, then what?
00:58:26 He meets with us at 8am.
00:58:28 We write up all our stories about what Bill Belichick had to say.
00:58:30 And then he could be moving on from the team by 4 or 5.
00:58:34 That's just a weird, it's an odd situation.
00:58:36 But that's when we might be in.
00:58:37 Right, because then even last year, this is like very inside baseball when it comes to media.
00:58:43 But maybe it's not.
00:58:44 We'll ask those questions and he'll intentionally have them early in the morning to say,
00:58:50 "Well, we just started on this.
00:58:51 I don't know."
00:58:52 Or, "I haven't seen players."
00:58:53 Monday after a game, right?
00:58:54 How so-and-so got hurt.
00:58:56 The doctors have talked to him, but he'll say, "I need time to figure it out."
00:59:00 And sometimes that's true.
00:59:01 But it's also strategic in that I can't tell you if I don't know the full picture.
00:59:05 And that's why he does it so early.
00:59:07 So this will be, "Well, we're going to look ahead and see what we need to do better next year.
00:59:11 We haven't started that process yet.
00:59:12 We just finished the Jets game."
00:59:14 And you might ask about his future.
00:59:16 He's like, "Look, we're just really trying to prepare and go through our regular offseason
00:59:19 process."
00:59:19 Even if that might not have even happened, I suppose is what I'm saying.
00:59:24 Did you listen to him on WEI?
00:59:26 Not to go too long on this?
00:59:27 A little bit.
00:59:29 No, I didn't listen to the whole interview.
00:59:31 At the end, they were having fun with it.
00:59:36 And I forgot who it was who asked.
00:59:37 I think it might have been Greg.
00:59:39 He was like, "All right, so Bill, should we expect to be doing this again with you next
00:59:44 year?
00:59:44 Are you going to be a guest every Monday on the show?"
00:59:47 And he actually laughed.
00:59:49 He chuckled and was like, "I'm looking forward to the Jets."
00:59:53 He had some fun with it, which was interesting to me.
00:59:58 Not even just like, "Oh, Bill's being fun."
01:00:00 But they were basically asking him about his job security, if he's going to get fired.
01:00:07 He was willing to laugh it off, which I think was interesting.
01:00:11 It was kind of a fun side to this whole story because he's not having fun with this, but
01:00:17 he was at least willing to have a little bit of fun in that moment.
01:00:20 So I thought that was interesting.
01:00:21 Yeah, that is interesting.
01:00:24 I mean, because everyone's subject to their own moods.
01:00:27 I think Bill, a little bit more, especially publicly, again, post-win, post-loss, it's
01:00:32 just so vastly different or during the week or whenever.
01:00:35 But he can have the media and has in the past, eating out of the palm of his hand.
01:00:40 He's captivating.
01:00:42 He's an excellent storyteller.
01:00:43 It's just how he chooses to be and why.
01:00:45 So it's interesting he chose to be like that on Monday.
01:00:47 I had not listened to the end of that with EI.
01:00:50 I don't want to read into it.
01:00:51 But those are the moments where I go, "Yeah, most of this is bad.
01:00:54 Most of this is boring, short, deflection, blah, blah, blah."
01:00:57 The times that are good, despite that, I appreciate because we should all be rooting for an open,
01:01:02 chuckling, happier Bill.
01:01:04 As we should be rooting for people to be happier and laughing, I think, in every corner of
01:01:09 our lives.
01:01:09 Not a lot of laughs to this story.
01:01:12 Are Patriots fans going to be laughing on Sunday, though, if they win or lose?
01:01:16 That's a loaded question.
01:01:17 Ignore the draft component of that if you can.
01:01:20 Do the Patriots win is what I really wanted to ask.
01:01:22 I think they do win.
01:01:24 OK, yeah, I agree.
01:01:25 I don't think Patriots fans want them to win, but I think they do win.
01:01:28 What do you think?
01:01:29 10-6.
01:01:29 I think it's ugly.
01:01:32 I think there's a little bit of comedy in there and then some scare.
01:01:35 But I just...
01:01:35 Trevor Simeon in the snow, one receiver to throw to.
01:01:39 Like, that defense is still playing well.
01:01:40 Bailey chucked the ball out of bounds at any sign of danger and just lived to see another down.
01:01:47 Like, they'll screw this up.
01:01:48 They played this game last year.
01:01:50 10-3.
01:01:50 Almost walk off on Marcus Jones' punt return at the end of the last minute.
01:01:56 And they won because they deadlocked it 3-3 and the Jets screwed up.
01:02:00 Punting with less than a minute left to an actual human being as opposed to out of bounds.
01:02:05 And I think they can win like that, but the Jets will get one more field goal and then set.
01:02:09 All right, here's Doug Kide, Boston Herald.
01:02:11 I promise I will not ask you to come back in a week or two or whatever it's been right away.
01:02:15 Because it's been a lot of work.
01:02:17 Went into the story again.
01:02:18 We ask you to read it, see it for yourself.
01:02:21 We tried to divulge as much as we could here, but nothing beats the whole thing.
01:02:24 I will see you tomorrow for hopefully a sweet, not sour, Bill Belichick.
01:02:29 Thank you, sir.
01:02:29 It's time for Friday Bill.
01:02:30 Absolutely.
01:02:33 [Music]