11th Hour | Waseem Badami | ARY News | 30th November 2023
#11thHour #QamarZamanKaira #PDMGovt #PMLN #PPP #ChairmanPTI #ToshakhanaCase #IntezarPanjutha
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Qamar Zaman Kaira PPP
- Barrister Intazar Hussain Panjutha (Lawyer)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
- Daniyal Aziz PMLN
"PDM Govt Mein Bhut Say Aesay Kaam Tha Jin Par...", Qamar Zaman Kaira
Has PTI Chief's disqualification ended? PTI Lawyer Intezar Panjutha's Big Statement
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Qamar Zaman Kaira PPP
- Barrister Intazar Hussain Panjutha (Lawyer)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
- Daniyal Aziz PMLN
"PDM Govt Mein Bhut Say Aesay Kaam Tha Jin Par...", Qamar Zaman Kaira
Has PTI Chief's disqualification ended? PTI Lawyer Intezar Panjutha's Big Statement
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 We will talk about different issues. Today, the People's Party staged a rally in Quetta.
00:07 It was their 88th day. Bilawal and Zardari came and spoke about a lot of things in the
00:14 convention. We will talk about that. We will talk about the People's Party's senior leadership.
00:21 As far as Chairman PTI is concerned, there is a case against him. So, that is a case that
00:28 has been suspended. The decision to suspend the case was heard in Islamabad High Court.
00:35 Some leaders of PTI were saying that they expect that the decision will be made today.
00:42 If the decision is made in our favour, then the ruling will be over. But the decision
00:48 was not made today. What else is going on in PTI's camps? Who will be the chairman?
00:54 We have invited senior PTI lawyer, Anubhav, to talk about this.
00:59 We will start. Thank you for your time.
01:04 I will start with Mr. Zardari. He is in Quetta.
01:07 Assalam-o-Alaikum.
01:09 Wa-Alaikum-o-Alaikum.
01:11 Thank you for your time. Let's watch a clip. Bilawal Bhutto.
01:14 Mr. Zardari has made a lot of points today. He said something to Noon League and PTI.
01:21 If People's Party will be in power, I promise that the dream of Sadr Zardari, Iran-Pakistan
01:30 gas pipeline, I will deliver this gas myself.
01:36 If PTI opens the doors for Mengai, when Noon League had the responsibility of treasury,
01:45 they have failed. And today, in the whole of Pakistan, they are not calling it Muslim League,
01:52 but Pakistan is calling it Mengai League.
01:56 Sometimes Noon League says that they will end the 18th amendment.
02:00 Sometimes PTI says that they will end the 18th amendment.
02:05 What do the people who speak against the 18th amendment want to say?
02:10 They want to say that we have attacked the resources of Balochistan.
02:15 Mr. Zardari has also said that he will show what he said.
02:18 But Mr. Kaira, when Bilawal was criticizing Noon League, as he did just now,
02:26 it seems that there was a government, which was your opposing government,
02:30 which had nothing to do with you, you kept opposing it.
02:33 How can he say so easily, while calling himself a great leader,
02:38 that he was Noon League's government and he broke the record of Mengai.
02:41 You were with him, you were the most important minister.
02:44 You will say that we did not have the treasury, it was foreign.
02:47 But does it have any responsibility on Noon League, on the People's Party?
02:51 No responsibility of the last 16 months of Mengai?
02:54 Not completely, but it is their responsibility that they had the treasury.
03:02 There are some internal things that I would like to say,
03:09 that there was a difference of opinion on many of our issues,
03:15 that this should not be done.
03:17 Ultimately, it was a loss, but we cannot talk about it now.
03:21 We were in the government and the decisions that were taken at that time were included.
03:25 But their policies and priorities, because naturally,
03:28 Sir, if you are making accusations, then the reason is also not clear.
03:32 I will say on that, give me a minute.
03:34 So, our narrative is that we are saying that it is your right,
03:40 you must say that you were a part of that government.
03:43 We think that we kept fulfilling our responsibilities even while sitting in the government,
03:47 but the priorities of the lead party were followed,
03:51 and ultimately their results were not better for us.
03:55 This is not just us, this is what the economists of Pakistan are saying.
03:58 If the People's Party says it alone, then it is something else.
04:01 The second thing is that Bilawal sir has been saying this for many days,
04:04 he said it in the KPK gatherings, today there was nothing new.
04:07 Today he has said many more things that are positive,
04:10 that are wave forward, that are for the future,
04:13 and he has said some things about the overall history of the People's Party.
04:19 And he has also said something about the 18th amendment,
04:23 now it is not the 18th amendment, it is the mirror of Pakistan.
04:26 Some people think that the mirror of Pakistan should be changed,
04:29 and such a change should be made that the rights given to the federation,
04:34 the devolution that took place, should be reversed,
04:37 and especially in the NFC, so he has talked about that.
04:42 You do not want to talk about the recent history of your party,
04:46 let's leave it for now,
04:48 but when did the Noon League put the slogan of the 18th amendment?
04:53 Tell us, the Noon League is saying this,
04:55 and the 18th amendment is saying that.
04:57 The issue is that the 18th amendment is such a symbol,
05:02 I said that the 18th amendment is not the 18th amendment,
05:05 it is the mirror of Pakistan.
05:06 So when did the Noon League say this?
05:07 It is a separate thing.
05:09 The 18th amendment is symbolized with the National Finance Commission.
05:15 The formula for distribution of resources that was settled in the Finance Commission,
05:20 there was debate on it,
05:22 there are many statements of Mr. Dar,
05:24 there are many statements of Mr. Ishaq-e-Iqbal,
05:27 from the side of the Muslim League,
05:29 our friends have repeatedly said,
05:31 Mr. Khurram Dastgir and many other friends,
05:35 that the money that the federation has at the moment,
05:37 they have broken it,
05:38 the resources go to the provinces,
05:40 the loans have to be paid,
05:42 it will have to be looked at more, it will have to be corrected,
05:44 these things are not said in plain words,
05:47 they are said in open words,
05:48 the programs have been established.
05:50 Actually, Mr. Kaira,
05:51 it is not that the election season is coming,
05:54 everything is being politicized,
05:56 which is always happening in Pakistan,
05:57 everyone does it,
05:58 but generally those things should not be politicized,
06:01 for example, the economy.
06:02 Sir, it is not like that.
06:03 Sir, it is an academic debate on the 18th amendment,
06:06 to say it like this at the Jalsas,
06:07 sorry, I will answer your question later.
06:10 That is, you say that whoever talks about the 18th amendment,
06:14 he actually says that
06:15 take away the rights from the people of Balochistan.
06:18 This is your interpretation,
06:19 he is not saying this.
06:20 So you are converting an academic debate,
06:22 an emotional debate,
06:23 a logical debate into an emotional narrative,
06:26 because the election is coming.
06:27 Not at all.
06:28 Your interpretation is correct in my opinion.
06:31 This is my opinion,
06:32 you can do it.
06:33 So sir, tell me,
06:34 when you say that the 18th amendment says
06:36 take away the rights from the people of Balochistan.
06:38 I am telling.
06:39 Yes, yes.
06:40 Your interpretation is not correct,
06:42 it is against the reality.
06:43 The first thing I am saying is that
06:45 the 18th amendment is not the 18th amendment,
06:46 it is the mirror of Pakistan.
06:48 Yes, yes, I am repeating Bilawal sir's words.
06:50 I am saying the same thing,
06:51 the mirror of Pakistan.
06:52 It is not a crime to amend the mirror of Pakistan.
06:54 Right.
06:55 If you combine the legislators of Pakistan,
06:58 the political parties,
07:00 and if you do something while keeping the situation in front,
07:02 then the amendments are made in a living document.
07:05 He said clearly that some people think
07:08 that the rights of Balochistan,
07:10 the rights of Sindh,
07:12 and the rights of Punjab should be taken away.
07:14 So, the rights to be taken away,
07:16 are the resources of the federation
07:18 which gave them the rights as NFC.
07:20 This was discussed.
07:22 And our opinion on this is very clear.
07:24 So, again, this is a long academic debate,
07:27 but the thing is that
07:29 when the federation has given the rights,
07:31 the rights of the people of Balochistan,
07:33 the rights of the people of Sindh,
07:35 the rights of the people of Punjab,
07:37 when it comes to further devolution,
07:39 that the governments of the state should be made free,
07:41 when it is said that this should also be made a part of the mirror of Pakistan,
07:44 that the state should be there before every election,
07:47 why should the elections of the state,
07:49 which is the foundation of democracy,
07:50 always become a ritual in Pakistan,
07:51 that the courts will pressurize,
07:53 then only the democratic governments will be made free.
07:55 When it comes to doing that,
07:56 then the People's Party is not interested in it.
07:58 This is not an issue of the People's Party.
08:00 The People's Party has elected today,
08:02 but this is a matter of its own,
08:04 that we have, overall,
08:06 for example, local bodies elections,
08:08 which are a very important part of democracy,
08:11 there are three tiers of government in Pakistan.
08:14 We talk about two tiers,
08:16 but we don't pay attention to the third tier.
08:18 The basic reason for this is also that
08:20 in our country,
08:22 the laws of democracy that came against democracy,
08:25 more attention was given to that third tier,
08:27 like in the era of Purvez Mishraf,
08:29 in the era of Zia ul Haq,
08:31 especially in the era of Purvez Mishraf,
08:33 when the federation directly
08:35 was dealing with the Union Council,
08:37 and was making the two tiers powerless.
08:40 For that, these institutions,
08:42 local bodies were made parallel to it.
08:44 There is no other way.
08:46 We should not legally protect the third tier,
08:48 but should protect it constitutionally.
08:50 And after MFC,
08:52 if there is no Provincial Finance Commission,
08:55 it should also be given protection under the constitution.
08:58 That there should be a Provincial Finance Commission,
09:00 after devolution,
09:02 the districts should get money,
09:04 and the provinces should also get power.
09:06 You agree that if the discussion
09:08 about transferring power from the central government
09:10 to the provinces is important,
09:12 then the discussion about transferring power
09:14 from the provinces to the central government is equally important.
09:16 I am saying this before you,
09:18 that the provinces should first
09:20 make a clock tower.
09:22 Earlier, the central government used to get resources,
09:24 and all the provinces used to come to the central government
09:26 and ask for money.
09:28 Now, when the provinces got it,
09:30 the chief minister of the province,
09:32 and all the districts go to him,
09:34 everyone goes to him.
09:36 I am seconding your point,
09:38 that there should be a Provincial Finance Commission,
09:40 it should be given protection under the constitution,
09:42 and we should give mandatory
09:44 and constitutional protection to the third tier.
09:46 Its election should be as important
09:48 as the national election.
09:50 If your party's thinking is also in this matter,
09:52 which is yours,
09:54 and with so much determination,
09:56 then why is MQM leaving the People's Party
09:58 and going to Noonli and saying
10:00 that we should make the district system strong.
10:02 The district system you are talking about,
10:04 is basically against the structure of Pakistan.
10:06 They want to bring the system of Barwais Musharraf,
10:08 they want to fly the middle and central tier
10:10 and deal directly with the local bodies.
10:12 They are saying that the federation
10:14 should directly transfer money to the districts,
10:16 and they should give resources there.
10:18 So, this is a big issue.
10:20 If they say that like the general elections,
10:22 the district elections should also be made mandatory
10:24 after X number of years,
10:26 and the mirror should be put on the wall,
10:28 then this is a big issue.
10:30 They have a legal right to do this.
10:32 But they should give constitutional protection
10:34 to the districts,
10:36 and not just to the districts.
10:38 The transfer of funds from the provinces
10:40 should be done by the federal government.
10:42 The provinces should also be given
10:44 the protection.
10:46 The money should be transferred
10:48 and the resources should be transferred.
10:50 And sir, from where we started,
10:52 let's conclude that
10:54 no matter how badly Noon League has performed,
10:56 no matter how badly they have broken the back
10:58 of the people in the last 16 months,
11:00 they have not done such a bad thing
11:02 that the people's party thought that
11:04 they are doing a big thing for the people,
11:06 so they should leave the government.
11:08 Even if they fall, they should fall.
11:10 They have not done such a bad thing.
11:12 My request is that Mr. Madami,
11:14 we have become a part of that government.
11:16 We have made many explanations about it.
11:18 I have one last thing to say.
11:20 We had decided to become a part of this government
11:22 because at that time,
11:24 the situation of the country
11:26 was such in our context
11:28 that if Imran Khan's government
11:30 had not been ended,
11:32 then the changes that he wanted to make
11:34 in Pakistan,
11:36 in the command of the Pakistani army,
11:38 in the election commission,
11:40 in the electoral laws,
11:42 we had an idea that on one hand,
11:44 he would destroy Pakistan's foreign policy
11:46 and make friends with Pakistan
11:48 and in other powerful countries,
11:50 in which our brothers and sisters
11:52 get resources from there,
11:54 we trade from there,
11:56 or our Muslim friends are also upset with us,
11:58 China is upset, America is upset,
12:00 Europe is upset,
12:02 and the international institutions are upset.
12:04 If this situation had remained,
12:06 then in our view,
12:08 Pakistan would have been in a very dangerous situation.
12:10 This is our understanding.
12:12 We have given many explanations
12:14 about its transformation and running.
12:16 We had some reservations about it.
12:18 Today, we are keeping it in the view
12:20 of the people in the eyes of the people.
12:22 You criticize it.
12:24 You have the right.
12:26 And the last question,
12:28 you were in Balochistan for the last few days,
12:30 you are the leader of the People's Party.
12:32 Did the father party's participation
12:34 happen in the way you were expecting
12:36 or was the matter a little less
12:38 and more people went towards the Noon?
12:40 Why do you do mischief?
12:42 You know.
12:44 You know.
12:46 If you don't know, I'll tell you.
12:48 And all the countries know.
12:50 Whether they know or not, they don't know.
12:52 I said "despite" today.
12:54 If you want, you can tell me.
12:56 The floor is open.
12:58 The whole world knows
13:00 what to say about what has been said.
13:02 I also know that if he has not come today,
13:04 "despite",
13:06 then the ones who came yesterday
13:08 were also "despite",
13:10 they were not organic, they were also engineered.
13:12 I have no objection to your question.
13:14 I have no objection to your question.
13:16 I have no objection to your question.
13:18 The conversation is over.
13:20 Thank you very much.
13:22 Mr. Kaira.
13:24 The conversation is over.
13:26 How did the People's Party,
13:28 which was not a representative
13:30 in the Balochistan Assembly,
13:32 the people's party's Mr. Zardari
13:34 overthrew the Balochistan government
13:36 and people started participating in the People's Party.
13:38 Mr. Zardari was asked on record
13:40 what you have done.
13:42 He said, "I have prayed for them."
13:44 I don't know what he was saying.
13:46 Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar,
13:48 who was the translator of Bilal's translation,
13:50 he said on record that we should not have
13:52 become the Aal-e-Kaar.
13:54 I am asking this question to Mr. Kaira
13:56 that if he has not come today,
13:58 then the ones who came yesterday
14:00 were also "despite", they were not organic,
14:02 they were also engineered.
14:04 I have no objection to your question.
14:06 The conversation is over.
14:08 Some people from the city were also "despite".
14:10 You were also shocked.
14:12 This is the situation.
14:14 A lot is going on in Pakistan's
14:16 Jareed Khan's camp.
14:18 We have with us Senior Lawyer Imran Khan.
14:20 Thank you very much for your time.
14:22 First of all, we are going through
14:24 the process of what
14:26 Imran Khan said about the chairman.
14:28 I will come to that later.
14:30 First of all, today there was a hearing
14:32 in the Sinabad High Court.
14:34 The Tosha Khana case has been
14:36 suspended. The decision was not suspended.
14:38 You went to the court for the decision.
14:40 If the decision had come today,
14:42 then the sword of justice would not have been hanging.
14:44 Are you a bit disappointed?
14:46 Because you were saying that you were expecting a decision.
14:48 Overall, this is the scenario.
14:50 The decision that was to be made today,
14:52 already a sentence
14:54 has been suspended.
14:56 The major part,
14:58 the operating part of the judgment
15:00 has been suspended.
15:02 This was a clerical mistake.
15:04 When the sentence was suspended
15:06 verbally at the last date of hearing,
15:08 the decision was made
15:10 to suspend the sentence.
15:12 The court had asked
15:14 to suspend the sentence.
15:16 But it was missed.
15:18 Sorry to interrupt you.
15:20 Don't you think that this is a big mistake
15:22 in your legal part?
15:24 You are right that this is a clerical mistake.
15:26 When you know that there are so many implications
15:28 of each point, then you are
15:30 requesting for death penalty.
15:32 You are writing a sentence, but not the sentence and order
15:34 which are being repeated.
15:36 It was a big mistake on your part.
15:38 Initially, it was a mistake.
15:40 Khawaja Ali had drafted this.
15:42 But,
15:44 at that time,
15:46 I am a professional lawyer.
15:48 I will not say anything.
15:50 So, it was a mistake.
15:52 Yes, it was a mistake.
15:54 I will not go to that side.
15:56 You are not going to the court,
15:58 but you are saying that you are not going to that side.
16:00 No, I am not going to that side.
16:02 But the point is that this mistake was not that big.
16:04 It was a timely point out.
16:06 I drafted this at the time
16:08 when the sentence was going to be suspended.
16:10 I told them before that.
16:12 But, unfortunately,
16:14 No, no, no.
16:16 The court has the authority.
16:18 I told them that I will write it and give it to you.
16:20 They said that they will see.
16:22 When they said that they will see,
16:24 then they did not see.
16:26 The court also overlooked.
16:28 Then we gave the application.
16:30 By the time of the end of that application,
16:32 the sentence was suspended on 30th August.
16:34 Sometimes, one request is made
16:36 by the Election Commission.
16:38 Sometimes, another request is made.
16:40 So, there is no point.
16:42 The major operating part of the judgment
16:44 has already been suspended on 30th August
16:46 by the same court, the same bench.
16:48 Were you expecting a decision today?
16:50 Yes, we were.
16:52 Are you getting it in your head?
16:54 We requested today
16:56 because it is for us and for the democracy of the country.
16:58 Our arguments today were that
17:00 if the biggest political party
17:02 of the country does not participate,
17:04 then the democracy of the country
17:06 is in danger.
17:08 The democracy of the country is in danger.
17:10 Pakistan is in danger.
17:12 Being a lawyer, you also understand
17:14 that, whatever your political affiliation is,
17:16 but you are a student of law primarily,
17:18 you understand that,
17:20 as a result of any punishment,
17:22 it is wrong to deprive a person
17:24 of his own party's leadership.
17:26 Whether it was happening with Nawaz Sharif
17:28 or with Imran Khan.
17:30 I will talk about the law.
17:32 The intention of the law
17:34 is to file an appeal.
17:36 When you are in an appeal,
17:38 then there is a continuity of trial.
17:40 When a trial is going on against you,
17:42 you are not disqualified.
17:44 This means that when you are in an appeal,
17:46 you should not be disqualified.
17:48 This is a settled principle of law.
17:50 Today it is Imran Khan,
17:52 tomorrow it is Nawaz Sharif,
17:54 Zardari, Bilawal, whatever.
17:56 But the principles of law
17:58 are the same.
18:00 I, being a student of law,
18:02 will say that this principle
18:04 should be applied equally for everyone.
18:06 So, Nawaz Sharif was also
18:08 disqualified from the party.
18:10 So, Mr. Khan should also be disqualified.
18:12 Because the principle should be applied equally.
18:14 No, no. The case of Nawaz Sharif is a little different.
18:16 The case is different because the disqualification
18:18 against him was directly filed by
18:20 the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
18:22 From 62(1)(f)
18:24 In that, there is no appeal
18:26 Now, at this stage,
18:28 a trial has been held,
18:30 the trial was right, it was wrong,
18:32 then it was settled.
18:34 Until the Supreme Court makes a final decision,
18:36 this is the continuity of our trial.
18:38 And these rights are available to us,
18:40 which were available during the trial.
18:42 They say that it is unfair to us.
18:44 It is not in the case of Ahitya Sahib Adarat,
18:46 that is the case of Al Azizia
18:48 and the flagship case,
18:50 but in the case of Akama,
18:52 it is unfair that the Supreme Court
18:54 has taken the case of Akama.
18:56 We do not have a forum to appeal.
18:58 Imran Khan is lucky enough
19:00 that he has so many forums to appeal.
19:02 Let me remind you of one thing.
19:04 The Supreme Court asked the lawyers
19:06 of the time.
19:08 They were Khwaja Aariz,
19:10 their name was Khwaja Aariz.
19:12 These are the same Khwaja Aariz,
19:14 whose lawyers are you?
19:16 And who are the lawyers of the military courts?
19:18 They are the lawyers of the federal government.
19:20 Subhanallah.
19:22 I said, I just put my hand up
19:24 to say Subhanallah.
19:26 At that time, they were asked
19:28 and they gave consent to the court
19:30 that you should decide
19:32 on our behalf on this case.
19:34 So when a consent was given,
19:36 it could have been brought down
19:38 for additional evidence,
19:40 but at that time, the decision was taken there
19:42 and it was taken by the newly appointed.
19:44 The statements of their lawyers are on record.
19:46 So when you surrender yourself
19:48 before the Supreme Court,
19:50 it was his choice.
19:52 Okay, now let me take another opinion
19:54 from legal perspectives.
19:56 But first tell me,
19:58 what is going on here
20:00 regarding the chairmanship?
20:02 First of all,
20:04 Sher Abdul Marwad tweeted
20:06 that Imran Khan has said
20:08 that there are a lot of legal complications
20:10 and I will not take part in the election.
20:12 Then if you could show us
20:14 what Sher Abdul Marwad said
20:16 in our show,
20:18 he confirmed that Imran Khan
20:20 will be the next chairman.
20:48 You said that a decision has been made
20:50 on one name.
20:52 I am saying that that one name
20:54 is according to our small means,
20:56 Barrister Gauhar.
20:58 Am I right?
21:00 Yes, definitely.
21:02 In the name of Barrister Gauhar,
21:04 Khan said that Barrister Gauhar
21:06 will be the candidate for the party chairman.
21:08 One was a serious confusion
21:10 when he said this,
21:12 but after his saying,
21:14 the translation of PTI was taken
21:16 and Barrister Gauhar was nominated.
21:18 But Khosa said that
21:20 and today he repeated
21:22 that I am the chairman of PTI.
21:24 And he said that
21:26 Imran Khan was, is and will be the chairman.
21:28 What did Khosa say?
21:30 Imran Khan did not say
21:32 that he is the chairman.
21:34 He said that Barrister Gauhar
21:36 is the chairman.
21:38 I said what Imran Khan said.
21:40 If anyone else has something to say,
21:42 they can listen.
21:44 PTI's Barrister Gauhar
21:46 is not saying the right thing.
21:48 Whether he is saying the right thing
21:50 or not,
21:52 what I am saying is right.
21:54 Ali Khan Sahib asked
21:56 what he is saying
21:58 and he said this.
22:00 So, he said that both are saying right.
22:02 It is good that no one asked him
22:04 to say something else.
22:06 So, he said that both are saying right.
22:08 So, he said that both are saying right.
22:10 Who is saying right?
22:12 No, what Ali Khan Sahib said
22:14 is absolutely right.
22:16 Both are right.
22:18 Let's talk about Khosa.
22:20 Khosa is absolutely right.
22:22 Till today, Imran Khan is the leader.
22:24 And Imran Khan will be the leader.
22:26 He will be the chairman.
22:28 Being the chairman
22:30 and being registered as the chairman
22:32 are two different things.
22:34 We are talking about the heart of the people
22:36 and that is not the case.
22:38 Technically,
22:40 it is a matter of today.
22:42 The decision will be made in a day or two.
22:44 It is not about the imams.
22:46 What Khosa is saying
22:48 is that being the nominee
22:50 is something else.
22:52 Right now, Khan Sahib is there and this is also
22:54 something else.
22:56 Khan Sahib is there.
22:58 Election is on Saturday.
23:00 Election is on Saturday.
23:02 Election is on Saturday.
23:04 And we hope that it will be on Saturday.
23:06 Who is the candidate for the chairman?
23:08 Gaur is the candidate.
23:10 That is why I am saying that both are right.
23:12 He is saying that there are,
23:14 there are and there will be more.
23:16 See, there is no law.
23:18 So, when Gaur Sahib will fight in the elections,
23:20 he will become the chairman and Khan Sahib will not be there.
23:22 But, Gaur Sahib's statement is also there.
23:24 What is he saying?
23:26 He is saying that Khan Sahib is there and he will be there.
23:28 He is saying that he is the leader and not the chairman.
23:30 See, this is a matter of words.
23:32 Emotions are attached.
23:34 In this, as it is said in the media,
23:36 no one has so much,
23:38 no one has so much to say.
23:40 See, what Khosa Sahib said
23:42 is absolutely right.
23:44 You are saying that Khosa Sahib,
23:46 you are saying that Ali Mahsaab is right.
23:48 That Khosa Sahib is right.
23:50 Even if Gaur Sahib becomes the chairman,
23:52 he is there and Khan Sahib is not there.
23:54 This is there.
23:56 I am also saying the same.
23:58 You are also saying the same.
24:00 Everything is right.
24:02 So, our friend Muneeb Farooq has joined us.
24:04 Let us take some more political opinions from him.
24:06 But, after the break.
24:08 Prime Minister, I welcome you.
24:14 Mr. Pinchota is with us.
24:16 Our friend Muneeb Farooq has joined us.
24:18 Let us take some more political opinions.
24:20 Mr. Muneeb, I was talking to Mr. Intisar.
24:22 You are saying that
24:24 you are interpreting this
24:26 as a small clerical mistake
24:28 or a human error.
24:30 Do you think that this is a big thing?
24:32 When Khan Sahib,
24:34 who was sentenced to death
24:36 in the Tusha Khana case,
24:38 was not sentenced to death,
24:40 and the written statement
24:42 was written about the sentence
24:44 and not the verdict.
24:46 The verdict was said before the sentence
24:48 that we want the verdict
24:50 and we can write it down.
24:52 Otherwise, this would not have been needed.
24:54 And the verdict would have had a big effect.
24:56 You will call it a clerical mistake
24:58 or you will call it a blunder?
25:00 Thank you very much.
25:06 I think it would be very harsh
25:08 if I would
25:10 comment on someone's legal acumen
25:12 or someone's thinking
25:14 or legal thinking
25:16 or legal approach.
25:18 Normally,
25:20 I will tell you as a joke,
25:22 in doctors and legal profession,
25:24 and in many cases,
25:26 if there is a case,
25:28 the old lawyer or doctor
25:30 will say that he has spoiled it.
25:32 I will correct it.
25:34 It is a simple process.
25:36 I cannot cut anyone's assertions.
25:38 I do say that the common practice
25:40 that we see is that the sentence
25:42 is not a legal one.
25:44 And the verdict against Imran Khan
25:46 was to be sentenced.
25:48 I had my own reservations
25:50 that the verdict, in my opinion,
25:52 did not pass the threshold of law and the law.
25:54 And I had a reservation
25:56 even when it was being
25:58 repeatedly demanded by the High Court
26:00 through the Trial Court.
26:02 I had a feeling that some things
26:04 should not have happened.
26:06 But having said that,
26:08 I think the important factor
26:10 was the ambitious thinking
26:12 that the verdict should be
26:14 passed through the threshold of law.
26:16 I do not think that the verdict
26:18 passed the threshold of law so easily.
26:20 You have said it.
26:22 Mr. Khaira is a senior lawyer.
26:24 I understand that he is from your profession.
26:26 So, I respect him.
26:28 But, tell me,
26:30 is it right to give the impression
26:32 that the verdict was passed
26:34 and almost for all practical purposes
26:36 the verdict was passed.
26:38 Or, is it right to give the impression
26:40 that the verdict was passed
26:42 and almost for all practical purposes
26:44 the verdict was passed.
26:46 How do you give the impression
26:48 that the verdict was passed
26:50 and almost for all practical purposes
26:52 the verdict was passed.
26:54 The nature of the verdict
26:56 is that the person has been punished
26:58 and he has been sent to jail.
27:00 The verdict was passed
27:02 and hence he was given bail.
27:04 But, when such orders come,
27:06 or when such decisions are made,
27:08 there are two aspects
27:10 which I see.
27:12 One aspect is that
27:14 you are being punished.
27:16 The second aspect is that
27:18 you are being sentenced.
27:20 The action on punishment is stopped.
27:22 The verdict is present and it remains.
27:24 There are other cases
27:26 where the verdict is stopped
27:28 by the execution of the trial
27:30 by the lower court.
27:32 For example, if a fixed-day order
27:34 is taken, which is a common practice
27:36 in civil matters,
27:38 or if an FIR is ordered
27:40 from the lower court,
27:42 and the higher court
27:44 challenges the higher court
27:46 and stops the execution
27:48 of the FIR.
27:50 Here, the issue is that
27:52 a punishment has been given
27:54 and it has been denied
27:56 by virtue of conviction.
27:58 And, the punishment is present
28:00 with it.
28:02 The punishment has been denied
28:04 and neither the conviction
28:06 has been denied.
28:08 I think that such a conviction
28:10 cannot be put in abeyance
28:12 or it cannot be suspended.
28:14 And, as far as I remember,
28:16 from the top of my head,
28:18 it has never happened.
28:20 If you look at the decisions
28:22 of Maryam Nawaz Sharif Sahiba
28:24 or even those of Mian Sahib
28:26 or of Sardar Sahib,
28:28 their punishments have been denied.
28:30 They have been denied.
28:32 There is a smile on his face.
28:34 Meanwhile, I welcome
28:36 Mr. Daniyal Aziz.
28:38 Thank you, sir.
28:40 The most fundamental thing
28:42 in this is the law.
28:44 It has 426 CRPCs
28:46 and the sentence has been given.
28:48 And, our first application
28:50 has always been in the appeal
28:52 with 426 applications.
28:54 There are two things in it.
28:56 One is the sentence and the other is the order.
28:58 There are thousands of judgments
29:00 on the sentence and the order.
29:02 So, it is almost the same thing.
29:04 It is the same thing.
29:06 It is written in the same section
29:08 that the sentence and the order
29:10 can be suspended.
29:12 And, here, we have given
29:14 the case of Javed Hashmi.
29:16 Javed Hashmi was punished
29:18 and his conviction was suspended.
29:20 Then, there was the case of
29:22 Sikandar Iyad Bosan Sahib
29:24 from Multan, MNA.
29:26 Sir, leave Ahmed Feed.
29:28 I am talking about the law.
29:30 You have always given 100 references
29:32 to Ahmed Feed.
29:34 His disqualification
29:36 was not because of this.
29:38 His disqualification was because
29:40 of the Supreme Court.
29:42 That was a great case.
29:44 It cannot be compared with this.
29:46 His disqualification was not because of this.
29:48 He was in jail.
29:50 The sentence
29:52 was not suspended
29:54 because
29:56 the quantum of punishment
29:58 was too much.
30:00 This punishment is
30:02 3 years.
30:04 The concept of suspension
30:06 of a sentence, where did it come from?
30:08 It came from the fact that when the sentences are long,
30:10 normally, the appeals
30:12 take time and there is a process.
30:14 So, it should not be that
30:16 when the appeal is decided, it is acquitted
30:18 and the time is over.
30:20 That is why it is suspended.
30:22 The sentence of Khan
30:24 which is normally given to a common man
30:26 in a day, without a preliminary hearing,
30:28 here, it is given
30:30 after a month in jail.
30:32 And then, along with that,
30:34 the 426th application...
30:36 So, you will be very confident that if the decision is not in your favour...
30:38 I am very confident. There is no problem in this.
30:40 If it is not in your favour, then you will go to the Supreme Court
30:42 and if it is that simple, you will say
30:44 that of course, it is the same thing.
30:46 Go ahead.
30:48 Yes, exactly like this.
30:50 But, the problem is that in 426,
30:52 these two things are present
30:54 that one thing is given to us and the other is not.
30:56 So, how is it possible that if one thing is given,
30:58 the other is not given?
31:00 Do you agree with this, Muneeb?
31:02 No, I...
31:04 I will not say
31:06 that there is a disagreement
31:08 but I am not in agreement with his opinion
31:10 because
31:12 what he is saying,
31:14 I am not saying that he is wrong,
31:16 but my opinion is different.
31:18 The decision of Mian Nawaz Sharif
31:20 or his disqualification
31:22 is not comparable.
31:24 We cannot compare it.
31:26 But, if you look at the other decisions
31:28 that have been made,
31:30 in which I have mentioned you,
31:32 cases of Maryam Nawaz Sharif and others,
31:34 there was only one standard
31:36 that their sentences were terminated.
31:38 If the order itself starts to be terminated, Mr. Badami,
31:40 and if we have such upteenth examples,
31:42 then the matter will end.
31:44 The matter will end.
31:46 Before this, when Mr. Kaira was here,
31:48 there was a very academic debate
31:50 on the 18th amendment.
31:52 And here, MQM and Moon League
31:54 are meeting again and again and there is a lot of discussion on this.
31:56 So, we have given a little trouble to Mr. Daniel Ajiy.
31:58 Let us quickly show
32:00 what Mr. Ahsan Iqbal said about this.
32:02 There is a legal issue as well as a political issue.
32:04 Let us see what Mr. Ahsan Iqbal said about this.
32:06 Show it to us.
32:08 [Video plays]
32:10 [Video plays]
32:12 [Video plays]
32:14 [Video plays]
32:16 [Video plays]
32:18 strong municipal system. We have ensured the complete support that together we will get the
32:26 next amendment from the parliament which will ensure the protection of local governments
32:34 so that local governments do not remain dependent on the mercy and kindness of the provincial governments.
32:40 We have also discussed that in the next elections, Muslim League 9 and MQM will cooperate with each other
32:48 and will get as many seats as possible from Sindh province.
32:53 Daniyal sir, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
32:56 Wa-alaikum-Salam.
32:57 Sir, thank you very much for your time and I hope that your health is good now.
33:01 You recovered from a very bad illness.
33:04 Thank you for your time.
33:06 Sir, you looked a bit upset with this statement and you also spoke a lot about Ahsan Iqbal.
33:12 This particular statement that we have seen, do you find anything wrong in it?
33:15 Is there a problem in it that they said that the municipal system should be protected by the law
33:20 and why should the municipal elections be held only when the courts are pushed?
33:23 Is there a problem in it?
33:25 The statement that has been made has the impression that there is no protection by the law.
33:32 There is protection by the law in Article 140A and I am surprised that when the 18th amendment was being prepared,
33:39 at that time, Ahsan Iqbal was also a part of it under the supervision of Reza Rabbani.
33:44 But perhaps he did not remember.
33:46 Now the question arises that when there is protection by the law, then case law is developed in it.
33:52 So until case law is developed, its interpretation is tested and it is discussed in detail.
33:58 So the negligence that has been done in this, I think, was done by Saqib Nassar Sahib
34:04 when Shah Sahib made a very positive and complete decision from the Lahore High Court.
34:11 In his appeal, he said that this is a very delicate balance between the province and the local government.
34:18 So everyone should stay within their limits and whoever makes more progress, we will step in.
34:23 So this way, Saqib Nassar Sahib has made a kind of monitoring authority in his appeal.
34:29 Instead of making a decision, what is written in the High Court.
34:31 But Daini sir, you started from the point that there is protection by the law.
34:35 One minute, one minute. Listen to me so that your viewers can understand what is the matter.
34:40 After that, you see, when this decision came that you cannot dismiss the local government in block,
34:47 this decision came, and before going, the former Chief Justice, before Bandyal Sahib,
34:54 he decided that these development authorities and other authorities will work under the Baldiyar.
35:02 So in this, this case law is being developed. Now that 140A is a complete protection.
35:09 In that, it is also written that each province shall devolve, by law devolve.
35:15 This means that whatever law you will make of the local government after this amendment,
35:20 after that you will emphasize more financial administration.
35:23 Sir, is there as much protection as the elections of the provincial and the government of the state?
35:31 And if there is so much, then why the election of the Baldiyar is not the same every four years,
35:35 like the election of the provincial and the government of the state.
35:36 That also happens sometimes, but still something happens.
35:39 That is exactly it. The election commission was given the responsibility in the 18th amendment to get the election done.
35:45 The same powers are with the election commission.
35:48 You just saw a 90-day series in Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
35:53 So this is how it is about the local government.
35:56 So the purpose of saying this is that…
35:57 Okay, but if he is talking about further protection, then what is wrong in it?
36:00 What is the loss in it? What is the problem?
36:02 I will tell you and remove it, that you are traveling in such a way that it does not have any protection.
36:08 There is total protection.
36:10 So there is so much protection that there is no room for further protection.
36:14 Whatever you write in the constitution, ultimately until it is not made into a case law,
36:19 and its interpretation is not done, its effectiveness is not achieved just by words.
36:24 Because in every word, there is a challenge.
36:27 So instead of starting the whole process again, we are almost at the end.
36:32 Actually, this negligence is happening from the judiciary, which is not able to interpret it inter-temporally.
36:38 Okay, but you are obviously the senior advisor of Mooli, Mr. Ahsan Iqbal.
36:42 You have said that there was a storm brewing for 16 months,
36:46 at that time Mr. Ahsan Iqbal was the head of price control,
36:48 he does not answer that and has started talking about local governments.
36:51 I mean, what is so angry about that you have not even covered the cost of inflation,
36:55 neither on Miftah Ismail, nor on the Minister of Treasury, nor on the Minister of Finance,
36:58 Mr. Ahsan Iqbal, so there has been a lot of storm brewing.
37:02 No, there is nothing like that.
37:04 You can read the TORs of the National Price Monitoring Committee,
37:07 you can read their mandate, its responsibility is to control the price,
37:11 it is clearly written.
37:13 And in that, there are government departments, in the form of chief secretaries,
37:17 in the form of secretary of food, the Federal Bureau of Statistics is also present,
37:22 Ministry of Industries is there, Ministry of Food Security is there, etc.
37:25 So, the point is that where there is a responsibility for one thing,
37:29 you have to criticize there, instead of talking about different things.
37:32 So, if we talk about the roles of the storm of inflation in the last 16 months,
37:35 then the central role is of Mr. Ahsan Iqbal.
37:37 It was his responsibility, he had given it, so either he says that it was not there,
37:43 or he says that I am interpreting the mandate incorrectly,
37:45 the documents are there, you know that very well.
37:48 So, whom else should I say? There was no other political party there.
37:51 If we assume the coalition government, then each and every JAYA or any party's
37:56 representative used to sit with them, so that is a different matter.
37:58 They were there themselves. So, whom else should I say?
38:01 So, sir, but the conditions at that time, the previous government seized oil prices,
38:08 then devaluation, weren't there too many factors?
38:12 Aren't you oversimplifying it?
38:14 Like you say, see, there was a price control committee,
38:17 its job was to stop inflation,
38:19 so it was Ahsan Iqbal's responsibility, not to stop inflation, hence, responsible Ahsan Iqbal.
38:23 You do one thing, their press releases,
38:27 there was a meeting every Monday,
38:29 sometimes twice a month,
38:31 so you read their press statements,
38:34 in that, you analyze all these factors yourself,
38:37 and you keep talking about all this,
38:39 now you are saying that it is more complex,
38:41 it is complex, so that is why all the ministries and government officials were sitting there,
38:44 and it was their responsibility.
38:46 If it was a faulty ministry or committee,
38:49 then tell us whether the authority was less or not.
38:53 Because in future, we cannot tolerate that the TPI goes down to 40% again.
38:57 Even now, the sensitive price index is at 42%.
39:00 Just imagine, we are going to the elections,
39:03 there are elections on Saturday,
39:05 70% of the people are saying that their number one issue is the voting public,
39:08 that is inflation.
39:09 And you think that in the upcoming elections,
39:11 your party will face the biggest challenge,
39:13 that you will have to pay a high price for your political party.
39:16 I am not saying that,
39:18 all the different departments,
39:20 the institutions that do surveys,
39:22 all of them are saying the same thing.
39:24 You can see for yourself.
39:26 Sir, they are saying the same thing.
39:28 And the last question is,
39:30 how much hope do you have that in the upcoming elections,
39:32 in the next 72 hours,
39:34 how many seats will your party be able to win?
39:36 I will tell you,
39:38 how many seats will be won in the elections,
39:40 only God can tell.
39:42 I will tell you,
39:44 that the media's role,
39:46 until you don't ask hard questions,
39:48 and don't make these things come out,
39:50 now there is electricity theft,
39:52 526 billion people have accepted electricity theft.
39:56 You know, the thing that the government accepts,
39:58 easily give it to 2,000.
40:00 So, the method to catch this theft,
40:04 so that the electricity bills can be cheaper,
40:06 what is the situation of that party?
40:08 Please tell us.
40:10 This is not the time.
40:12 The situation in Pakistan is at such a delicate stage,
40:16 that people cannot tolerate,
40:18 that you just put a blank slate on the empty slogans,
40:22 that you come and vote.
40:24 We need a clear cut road map for the economy.
40:27 Thank you, thank you sir.
40:29 Thank you very much.
40:31 Let's conclude,
40:32 let's come to the political side,
40:33 starting from Muneeb sir.
40:34 Muneeb sir,
40:36 do you think, or do I think,
40:38 that the people's party,
40:40 and they had enough reasons to do so as well,
40:42 they have managed themselves to some extent,
40:46 and the impression is still there.
40:48 I repeat,
40:50 that in the last 16 months,
40:52 there was a flood of inflation,
40:54 there was a party,
40:56 its head was Shahbaz Sharif,
40:58 its head was Ishaq Darwazir Khazana,
41:00 we were running abroad,
41:02 we did a great job there,
41:04 what else could we do?
41:06 We have to read the news,
41:08 we have to read the news in the electoral politics.
41:10 Look,
41:12 this is not something to doubt,
41:14 Mr. Badami,
41:16 if you look at it,
41:18 I'll give you a small example,
41:20 the condition of PMLN in 2018,
41:22 although,
41:24 Mr. Imran Khan's government was manufactured,
41:26 just like it is done in our country,
41:28 so it was manufactured,
41:30 but despite that,
41:32 Mr. Mir Nawaz Sharif was disqualified,
41:34 his daughter Sara was in jail,
41:36 despite all the arguments,
41:38 PMLN was so entrenched,
41:40 especially in Punjab,
41:42 that it won 85-90% by-elections,
41:44 that historical dust,
41:46 which was in the Tuscarora election,
41:48 I actually covered that election on the ground,
41:50 so I know that the historical dust
41:52 that was in the dust,
41:54 was the government of Mr. Tariq-e-Ansaab,
41:56 and the many loafer politicians
41:58 who are now leaving Mr. Tariq-e-Ansaab
42:00 and giving the order to Pakistan,
42:02 that was their role in that,
42:04 and he disappeared with the RO,
42:06 some gentleman disappeared,
42:08 all the bulls were chanting Mr. Buldaar's name,
42:10 so at that time,
42:12 PMLN was very strong,
42:14 but now everything has changed,
42:16 in front of us,
42:18 I'm not a person who talks about assumptions,
42:20 what is the testament in front of me,
42:22 last year's by-elections,
42:24 the acceptance of Imran Khan and PTI,
42:26 was just like a roof that was being torn out,
42:28 after that,
42:30 the things that we sit on the ground,
42:32 meet people, everything,
42:34 in that I still get the sentiment that
42:36 PTI's acceptance is still there,
42:38 and much more than the other parties,
42:40 or much more than that,
42:42 I don't know what is the ratio,
42:44 I don't know how it manifests itself
42:46 in the elections,
42:48 but yes,
42:50 this is the factor that PTI,
42:52 or if I say,
42:54 they have hung two flags
42:56 in Imran Khan's neck,
42:58 one,
43:00 that they did a big conspiracy,
43:02 before the appointment of the army chief,
43:04 and became a part of that conspiracy,
43:06 and it's out in the open,
43:08 I've talked about it multiple times,
43:10 and the second,
43:12 that Mashallah,
43:14 Mir Jafar, Mir Sadiq, Dirty Harry,
43:16 and all that,
43:18 that unfortunate depiction,
43:20 was the 9th of May incident,
43:22 these are the flags,
43:24 that by the way of justice,
43:26 have been hung in the streets,
43:28 to extricate yourself from them,
43:30 is a difficult and a factor.
43:32 Ok, noted,
43:34 now the final word,
43:36 if they have the flag of inflation,
43:38 then you have the flag of 9th of May,
43:40 which is heavier?
43:42 No,
43:44 the most important demand,
43:46 that has always been there,
43:48 is that on 9th of May,
43:50 there should be a free and judicial inquiry,
43:52 that everyone should agree to,
43:54 the facts should be revealed,
43:56 and it should be found out,
43:58 who is responsible,
44:00 and until that is not done,
44:02 people will be arrested,
44:04 and Muneeb sir will interview them,
44:06 and other anchors,
44:08 so this is unfortunate,
44:10 what kind of system is going on,
44:12 and what will happen,
44:14 and how it will happen,
44:16 I've told you,
44:18 if you had seen the interview,
44:20 the person who was interviewed,
44:22 he was in Pakistan on 9th,
44:24 no, no, it's a very interesting thing,
44:26 if Prajota sir had seen that interview,
44:28 I would have told you,
44:30 where were the guests,
44:32 and where were they being asked to leave,
44:34 I am an old client,
44:36 I know what happened,
44:38 leave this,
44:40 how the interview was,
44:42 I have met him before,
44:44 and I have met you later,
44:46 everything is on record,
44:48 leave whatever happened,
44:50 you tell me,
44:52 but the time is up,
44:54 you have a live program,
44:56 the thing is,
44:58 when he went in front of a judge on 9th,
45:00 Farhaf Farid Baloch
45:02 called it ridiculous and absurd,
45:04 but you are saying PTI had nothing to do with 9th,
45:06 who will believe that,
45:08 Hassan Niazi was there,
45:10 there are video scripts,
45:12 an independent inquiry,
45:14 on the basis of that,
45:16 you can't say that if Hassan Niazi was there,
45:18 then Pakistan,
45:20 and the Tariq-e-Jazab,
45:22 what is this?
45:24 [Hassan] But what is being said is,
45:26 thank you very much,
45:28 let's conclude after this.
45:30 Before leaving,
45:36 we are seeing that the petrol prices
45:38 have been reduced,
45:40 the diesel prices are also reducing,
45:42 the summary of the elections on 8th February,
45:44 which we just talked about,
45:46 which is the price of inflation,
45:48 and which is the price of 9th,
45:50 we will present our answers to both of these questions,
45:52 which is heavier in Pakistan's
45:54 current situation,
45:56 this is an innocent question,
45:58 the result of the elections is hidden in this answer.
46:00 Allah Hafiz.