Now that the 2023-24 NBA season is roughly a quarter over with, we can see some rough outlines of what each of the league's Eastern Conference teams will look like by the time the 2024 NBA Playoffs roll around. Some teams have surprised us in terms of their record and play, a handful have disappointed their fans with how they have performed on the court so far -- and several are exactly the ball clubs we thought they were.
The Boston Celtics, for their part, have hit the ground running faster than many have expected, but also have shown some weaknesses in need of addressing. But how real is the sizzling start of the Orlando Magic, and will the Cleveland Cavaliers continue to flirt with being a lottery team?
What about the new-look Philadelphia 76ers, who Boston plays on Friday? To answer all of the above -- and the last question in particular -- the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Sixers Wire's Ky Carlin to assess the state of the East at the season's quarter mark.
We also settle our differences on the merits of the in-season tournament, whether Boston has more moves to make, and more, so hit play on the clip embedded below to get your bearings on how the East is shaking out so far.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
The Boston Celtics, for their part, have hit the ground running faster than many have expected, but also have shown some weaknesses in need of addressing. But how real is the sizzling start of the Orlando Magic, and will the Cleveland Cavaliers continue to flirt with being a lottery team?
What about the new-look Philadelphia 76ers, who Boston plays on Friday? To answer all of the above -- and the last question in particular -- the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Sixers Wire's Ky Carlin to assess the state of the East at the season's quarter mark.
We also settle our differences on the merits of the in-season tournament, whether Boston has more moves to make, and more, so hit play on the clip embedded below to get your bearings on how the East is shaking out so far.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 four and 37 since the trade deadline. Four and 37 over the
00:05 course of an 82 game season. That's eight and 74. That's on
00:09 pace for that. That's historically bad. Yeah.
00:12 Alrighty, welcome back to the Celtics live podcast brought to
00:24 you by fan dual exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS
00:27 media network. I am Cameron Teptebai. I'm joined by Alex
00:30 Goldberg and Dr. Justin Quinn. The Boston Celtics will be
00:33 hosting the Philadelphia 76ers later this week. So we thought
00:37 it was a good time to check in on the pecking order in the
00:39 Eastern Conference and to talk about those 76ers. So to do
00:43 exactly that we welcome in friend of the podcast from
00:47 Sixers Wire and USA Today SMG, Kai Carlin. Kai, what is up?
00:52 What's going on guys? How we going?
00:56 Long time no see. We're doing good at basketball. Last time we
01:01 talked. Actually, when was the last time you were on the
01:04 podcast?
01:05 By the playoffs, right? In April?
01:07 Thereabouts. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
01:09 So it's been a while. Welcome back. We have a revamped 76ers
01:15 team to talk about. So as I teased off the jump, we're
01:19 gonna do the whole Eastern Conference and as we are want
01:22 to do, we'll start with the news. So that's our agenda for
01:24 today. But Kai, because we haven't talked to you in a
01:27 while. How are you feeling about the no look, new look?
01:31 No, look, 76. The new look post James Harden 76ers. You've had
01:36 a few weeks to digest. What do you think?
01:38 Um,
01:40 there are obviously a lot more entertaining. Like I will say
01:44 that they're a lot more fun, a lot more entertaining. There's
01:47 a lot more, you know, interesting, like aspects about
01:52 this team. Like I love the Tyrese, Joelle pick and roll. I
01:55 love the addition of Nick platoon. Obviously, Kelly
01:59 Oubre was great before his injury. That was a tragic thing
02:04 that happened to him. Hopefully, he'll be back soon. But Oubre
02:07 Jr. looks really good. Platoon looks great. Covington. No, it
02:12 looks like it could be a nice addition to the bench. Marcus
02:14 Morris is kind of beginning to round into form. So they've been
02:17 a lot of fun. Patrick Beverly has brought a lot of different
02:21 dynamics, I will say to the Sixers a little bit. But for me,
02:27 nothing changes. Round two, like they're out round two. And it's
02:31 just because everything comes down to the big fella. And as
02:35 amazing as Joelle is, he's a top five player. He has shown in the
02:40 past, he hasn't been able to produce in the playoffs, like,
02:43 you know, like other superstars have. Now, granted, he's one
02:49 really good deep playoff run away from, you know, reaching
02:55 into that next stratosphere. But he's shown in the past that he
02:59 hasn't been able to do that. So it all comes down to the big
03:01 fella to me. Tyrese is taking the next step, but it comes down
03:04 to Joelle.
03:05 I'm curious, what's your assessment of the Nick Nurse
03:09 era more so than anything?
03:11 From a media standpoint, I love Nick Nurse. He's been he's been
03:17 very transparent, like, you know, with us, you know,
03:19 practices and, and in games and such. So I like I like what I'm
03:25 seeing from there. And you have to love what you're seeing on
03:27 the court, right? I mean, they're they're 12 and five.
03:30 Tyrese and Joelle have played very well, you know, in a pick
03:35 and roll. The guys have understood like where to cut
03:40 within that offense. He's encouraging ball movement. And
03:43 it's been fun seeing what type of defensive schemes nurse comes
03:47 up with from possession to possession. It really is
03:50 interesting, because I'll give you an example against the
03:53 Lakers on the 27th. They started out in a man to man, Anthony
03:57 Davis got a really hot start, they switched to a two three
04:00 zone. After a while, Lakers figured that out, they switched
04:03 to a two one two zone. And it was it was kind of it's really
04:08 been kind of fascinating to really see what Nick Nurse
04:11 decides to dial up again, not just on a nightly basis, but on
04:14 a just possession by possession basis, he comes up with
04:17 something new is very interesting.
04:19 It feels like in the matchups that the Celtics and the Sixers
04:23 have played, obviously, it's not the playoffs yet. So nothing
04:26 really matters. But the first couple of matchups, there's
04:30 definitely more variety defensively that I think we saw
04:35 in those games. And I think going forward, you know, the
04:39 biggest thing for the Celtics Sixers matchups in the past, is
04:43 that the Celtics have always kind of been able to hunt and
04:45 beat and draw him out into the perimeter. And it seemed at
04:49 least in those first two games that nurse was doing a better
04:53 job than Doc Rivers trying to adapt to that, obviously, in a
04:56 seven game pressure cooker. That's a different ballgame. But
05:00 I'm curious to see how that develops over the course of the
05:03 year.
05:03 Well, to that point, they can't necessarily really do that
05:07 anymore, because they have, I think, better personnel than
05:11 maybe in that series that we just saw these teams play, you
05:14 know, six months ago. So I think having Batum in there changes
05:20 things. I think having Uber Jr. in there changes things are both
05:24 very long, lengthy defenders. A lot of people want to point to
05:27 PJ Tucker and just be like, Oh, PJ Tucker makes a big
05:32 difference. And he does. The difference is, PJ is also 38.
05:37 But tomb is 35. But three years is a big difference. You know
05:42 what I mean? So especially especially in this league, so I
05:46 feel like Batum makes a little bit better. He just fits a
05:49 little bit better, really on both ends of the floor. He's got
05:51 a quick trigger from three on the offensive end, he puts the
05:54 ball on the floor, he knows how to make an entry passage a well.
05:57 So yeah, I think Batum has been a terrific pickup. Again, it'll
06:02 be interesting to see man, when the schedule turn or the
06:05 calendar turns to April and May just to see if all these
06:09 adjustments and changes actually pay off.
06:11 I will say it doesn't look like it's paying off for the
06:14 Clovers. Thanks. Things look really bad for that team right
06:17 now.
06:18 And you know, it's so interesting. It really is. And I
06:22 think it's just because, um, you know, they made the decision to
06:27 move Russell Westbrook to the bench. But I mean, I'm telling
06:29 you, like, I thought Westbrook played really well for the
06:33 Clippers last year when they when they brought him in. And I
06:35 thought he played very well this year, the first couple of games
06:38 before the Harden trade. And I understand why they made it
06:42 Harden is an elite playmaker.
06:44 I don't understand it at all, because they were already
06:46 playing. Well, it's just like you have a known troublemaker
06:48 who has gone from team to team to team creating problems. And
06:51 what's happening now? I mean, he's not asking out yet, but it
06:55 sure isn't going well.
06:57 No, it's not going well. But I do want to say why they made the
07:01 move. Just because again, we're talking about a guy who can he
07:05 is an elite playmaker. So I mean, led league and assists
07:08 last year. He's not the same explosive score. I think I think
07:13 he thinks he still is like, that's the that's the big
07:16 difference. But he still is a very good player. I just I'm
07:21 very curious to see though, like what, like, like what happens?
07:25 As that team moves forward, but they're not better than Denver.
07:29 You know what I mean? They're not. They're not better than
07:32 Phoenix. And I know we haven't seen Bradley Beal, Devin Booker
07:36 Kevin Durant on the floor just yet. But I think Phoenix is
07:39 better than them. Golden State is going to give them a lot of
07:41 issues. Minnesota, you know, the Timberwolves are, you know,
07:48 they're the number one defensive team in the league. So good.
07:52 Just the Clippers to me are just like, round two for you guys
07:56 to congratulations. So it doesn't get them any closer.
07:59 Round two, it might be a stretch. The defense there is
08:02 is tough. Oh, yeah, it's bad. It's bad. Alex, I believe that I
08:07 I believe I beat Bobby to the punch. Is that I think so. And
08:14 what I'm talking about, Kai, I'm going to turn our attention to
08:16 Celtics news for a moment is that Drew Holliday and Derek
08:19 White are back in the lineup tonight is Tuesday night.
08:22 They're playing another very sad team, the Chicago Bulls and
08:27 Drew Holliday is back from a little bit of an ankle sprain.
08:29 Kai, you talked a little bit about some of the challenges or
08:35 limitations that the Sixers have. I'm going to talk to
08:38 Justin and Alex, but Kai Hoppen, if you got takes, we might have
08:42 seen some of Boston's limitations against Orlando over
08:45 the weekend where it just looked like the magic kind of had the
08:49 Celtics licked. Justin, what about this magic team? First of
08:53 all works for them. But second of all, might be a problem for
08:57 Boston. What kind of vulnerabilities does Boston have?
09:01 Ego, mostly, I think that the Celtics are still thinking about
09:07 Orlando as the team we thought they would be coming into the
09:10 season, you know, foreshadowing a little bit of what we'll be
09:12 talking about later. But also the fact that this Orlando team
09:18 really wanted to beat the Celtics on a night where they're
09:22 down two of their starters and one of the starters is still
09:24 recovering from an illness. So not to make excuses, the effort
09:28 wasn't there where it should have been even considering all
09:30 of those things. But teams that junk it up teams with length,
09:36 teams that are willing to go hard at Boston are going to give
09:40 them trouble. And if they don't respect teams, as we have said
09:43 in seasons past, and they're going to lose games. Thankfully,
09:46 it was one game and hopefully an isolated problem.
09:50 I'm gonna push back. Yeah, I'm gonna push back just a tiny bit
09:54 on that, Justin, in that even though the Celtics might have
09:58 been overlooking, I think that's I know where you're going. I
10:01 know exactly where you go. It's just that last year, the Celtics
10:05 struggled with the magic a lot. I mean, this was a really
10:09 difficult matchup for them. And I think in general, you know,
10:13 basketball ultimately does boil down to matchups more than
10:16 anything else. Orlando is for real, guys. I don't know if you
10:22 noticed this, but that is a real basketball team that Jamal
10:25 Mosley is working with down there. They're long, they're
10:28 super physical, and they're really tough on the defensive
10:32 end. I think Wagner and Paolo have been playing out of their
10:36 minds. Now, obviously, we got burned by a different Wagner
10:40 this time around. And that is profoundly upsetting to me as a
10:46 big Mo Wagner hater. I hated him on the Celtics, hated him
10:50 before the Celtics. I'm generally not a huge fan of his
10:53 game at all. But I think there is really something to be said
10:58 for size and physicality being a problem for the Celtics.
11:03 Particularly, we saw last year in the Eastern Conference
11:06 finals against Miami, when Miami really mucked the game up when
11:10 Jimmy Butler started going into guys chests, when Bam Adebayo
11:14 started pushing Al Horford around, this team really
11:18 struggled. And I think if there's anything that we've seen
11:21 that disrupts Boston over the past few years, it's when you
11:25 just hammer them and really play a physical, intense game that
11:31 gets them out of their flow that gets them out of good
11:34 possessions. Boston has typically been okay in these
11:38 matchups, but they haven't really been outstanding. And I
11:42 think this is part of what this team is going to have to work
11:45 through from an identity standpoint, if they really want
11:48 to be a title winning team, which I think the expectation
11:52 is like Boston has got to develop a little bit of heft
11:55 there. To that end, I would suggest, perhaps that Boston
12:00 consider amplifying their front court a little bit as part of
12:04 their moves. To that end, I would suggest, and I have been
12:08 this whole time, Boston Celtics might want to consider using the
12:12 Grant Williams TPE on Andre Drummond when the Bulls
12:15 inevitably fall apart, because Andre Drummond is huge. And I
12:20 know that he has flaring flaws in his game. I know that he is
12:23 not a good free throw shooter. But that guy is very large. And
12:28 if you want to beat teams like the Magic, you're going to need
12:31 large guys to do it.
12:32 I thought you were gonna talk about Kata.
12:36 I mean, he did in a roundabout way, just not directly.
12:40 I do. We'll save that for later.
12:42 Sure. I will remind listeners that I selected Mo Wagner early
12:49 in our expansion draft. So I'm just gonna keep tooting my own
12:51 horn. Hi. We won't see Porzingis on Friday. I don't think he's
12:56 out with an injury that is this was a calf injury.
13:01 Yeah, calf strain. They said probably Friday at the soonest.
13:04 I think it's probably gonna be a little longer than that.
13:06 Sure. So we won't get any more action between Porzingis and
13:12 Embiid. But we have been interested in Porzingis because
13:16 his offense around the rim is a really big and new deal for the
13:20 Celtics. But his defense around the rim has been kind of
13:24 problematic. What have you seen from other matchups that we have
13:27 seen between Porzingis and Embiid or just from this new
13:30 look Celtics frontcourt in general?
13:32 Before I touch on that, Alex, Mo Wagner's the goat. So I will
13:38 not accept any Mo Wagner slander as a Michigan man. I'm not
13:43 accepting it. But no, the Porzingis Embiid matchups are,
13:48 they've kind of been interesting because Porzingis obviously is
13:52 really the only one of the few guys in the league who can
13:54 actually match up with Embiid size wise with him being seven
13:58 three. But Porzingis is, I don't know, like, he's just to me, he's
14:04 more of a power forward. Like, just because he shoots the ball
14:08 so well, he's got the skills of a guard in such a ginormous body.
14:14 And I think that's what makes him so unique as a basketball
14:16 player, because he shouldn't be doing what he's doing a seven
14:19 foot three. So I love Porzingis game, I think he's perfect for
14:24 the Celtics. But in terms of his matchups with Joel, Joel is a,
14:29 Joel's a smart basketball player. Like that's something a
14:32 lot of people kind of, you know, they don't talk about too much.
14:35 It's just like he's so his IQ really is high. He does a lot of
14:40 him, he commits a lot of dumb turnovers. But I think it's
14:42 just because it's him trying to, like make the play after the
14:47 play that's right in front of you. It's like he's trying to
14:49 like skip steps. So he like he does that often. But it's
14:53 because he just he sees the game a little differently. And I just
14:55 don't I just don't think Porzingis can really match up
14:57 with him like that. Which is why, again, when you between
15:02 when you talk in Boston, Philadelphia, Al Horford, bring
15:07 in Al Horford, just bring him hit. And I don't think I don't
15:12 think Al it's not like Al just like shuts him down one on one.
15:17 It's just the schemes the Celtics can throw at him as a
15:21 team and just like their length. Al being the physical defender
15:27 that he is and combined with Tatum and Brown and Derek White,
15:32 Drew, and it's just it doesn't matter. The Celtics can just
15:36 throw a bunch of pieces at you. That's something the Sixers are
15:38 really got to figure out. And again, I think it's all going to
15:42 come down to Tyrese Maxey. It always comes down to him,
15:45 especially in these matchups with the Celtics, because the
15:47 Celtics have had such a that they've been really great at
15:51 defending him. I know Maxie scored a lot of points against
15:54 the Celtics this year, but he's still not shooting the ball
15:56 well. It's been poor efficiency. He's still trying to get around
16:01 the physicality Celtics throw at him. And I think it's Joelle's
16:05 going to be Joelle. It's just it comes down to Tyrese, in my
16:08 opinion, everything the Sixers do when it comes to these
16:10 Celtics matchups comes down to Tyrese Maxey.
16:14 I just sorry, I just wanted to jump one more thing. And that
16:18 Sixers Celtics matchup really quickly, which is I think an
16:21 underrated part of that matchup for Boston is that Al Horford is
16:26 able to focus almost entirely on defending Joel and bead, because
16:31 guys, I don't know if you know this, but Jason Tatum is
16:34 currently rebounding the absolute crap out of this ball.
16:38 This guy is now currently averaging a career high, almost
16:43 like just shy of nine rebounds per game. And I think a huge
16:47 underrated factor in the Celtics Sixers matchup is that Tatum is
16:53 crashing the glass extremely hard, which also gives him the
16:58 benefit of being able to initiate the offense with the
17:01 ball in his hands. I think it's a hugely important and
17:04 overlooked storyline as to why Boston has succeeded in the
17:09 moments that it has this year. Tatum's rebounding is quietly
17:12 essential to this team.
17:14 You have the rebounding numbers in front of you.
17:16 He's currently averaging 8.9 just shy of nine rebounds a
17:20 game.
17:21 Where's where's drew at because I think Drew's rebounding is
17:24 equally important to the Celtics. That's a good
17:26 question. I'll pull that up.
17:28 While we do that, I'm going to ask Kai a quick question. Then I
17:32 may ask Justin a quick question. Then I'm gonna riff. Kai. If
17:37 Tyrese Halliburton is the fastest player on the court for
17:39 Sixers Celtics, who is the second fastest? Because it's so
17:43 it the reason I asked is because Maxie is so clearly the fastest.
17:47 You said Halliburton there. That's why I was confused
17:50 initially. Did I? Yeah, he said Tyrese Halliburton. So I was
17:54 like, confused.
17:55 Where's this going?
17:57 Quick guards running around my brain. Okay, Maxie is the
18:03 fastest player Sixers Celtics. Maybe if Halliburton got in, it
18:07 would be close. But it's not because that's not a player on
18:09 either of those teams. Who's the second fastest Sixer or Celtic
18:13 you think?
18:14 Yeah, I couldn't think of one either.
18:18 Answer is Derek.
18:21 I don't think that fast. I don't either.
18:25 I don't know. I want to keep an eye on.
18:32 But I don't think it comes down to like really speed. Like,
18:37 again, like these matchups come down to the fact that Boston has
18:41 capable defenders who they mesh well together. There's
18:45 chemistry. And that's something that the Sixers really don't
18:48 have at the moment. Like, like, I understand it. A lot of people
18:52 always call for Boston to break up that core, you know, it's
18:55 whatever. But like, Brown, Tatum, Orford, White even,
19:01 because White was on the 2022 finals team, right? That's when
19:04 Boston picked them up at the deadline. That was the year.
19:06 Yeah. So they've been with each other for multiple years. Like
19:11 these guys know each other like the back of their hand. That
19:13 really does make a big difference when it comes to
19:17 making deep playoff runs, sticking together in adversity
19:21 in the postseason, sticking together through big moments.
19:24 The Sixers really don't have that. I mean, I understand like
19:27 they have Joel, they have Tyrese, and they have Tobias.
19:30 And, you know, that core has been together for a while, but
19:33 it's like the pieces around them continue to change. You know
19:37 what I mean? Like this year, they added Nick Batum, Kelly
19:40 Oubre, Marcus Morris, and just, you know, everything else in
19:45 between, when it comes to building, you know, the roster
19:50 around those three players. And I think with the Sixers, it's
19:57 just like, you know, the chemistry is another issue that
20:00 I bring up when it comes to Eastern Conference hierarchy.
20:03 Sixers really don't have it. So I think chemistry is an
20:08 underrated aspect when it comes to stuff like this. It's why I
20:14 rate Miami very high. It's why I rate Boston very high. Milwaukee
20:20 got knocked down a letter to me.
20:22 Well, hold on, hold the phone, Maestro.
20:25 No chemistry. No chemistry.
20:27 That's the whole second half of the pod, Kai. Hold on.
20:29 Oh, I apologize.
20:31 Really quick before we dip into the second half of the pod. Drew
20:36 Halliday averaging seven and a half rebounds per game, which is
20:40 kind of astonishing. But yeah, no, one of the kind of secrets
20:44 to the Celtics' success this year has been that as a team,
20:48 they are actually rebounding quite well. Now, I will say
20:52 that the numbers look good. There are moments when the
20:56 rebounding goes cold, which is a real problem, like against the
20:59 Orlando Magic, for example. And so I do not think that Boston's
21:03 rebounding prowess is a perfect finished product yet. But Drew
21:08 Halliday and Jason Tatum are certainly doing their part.
21:11 Let me just throw into that. Probably I got the idea of
21:16 Derek White being fast from NBH UK, who in the last iteration
21:20 ranked him the fastest Celtic and seventh fastest player in
21:24 the league. That may have absolutely nothing to do with
21:26 reality. You would know better than I can, but that's probably
21:30 where that little mind fart came from.
21:32 All right, well, things have completely gone off the rails.
21:35 So let me say two things. First of all, I hate the in-season
21:38 tournament. It is a bad product. It's stupid.
21:40 I love it. I love it so much.
21:41 No, no, no, no.
21:42 You have no idea how much I hate it.
21:45 I love some of it. I hate some of it.
21:47 I love the in-season. I hated it initially. I thought it was
21:51 gonna be a stupid idea, but I love it. I think it's
21:54 incredible.
21:55 What do you like, the courts that don't work or having to do
21:58 math the whole time?
21:59 Dude, I'm not doing the math.
22:01 Other people do it for us. Yes, exactly.
22:05 Yeah, look, look, look.
22:06 The courts have to go. The courts have to go.
22:08 Yeah, look, we're sports journalists. We're not
22:10 mathematicians. No, let the math people figure that out. No, I
22:16 love the courts.
22:17 Whoa.
22:19 I'm gonna switch you. The Bulls one sucks. The Bulls one is not
22:23 good at all. But, and obviously there are other clunkers like
22:26 Phoenix's, for example, and New Orleans's.
22:28 Yeah, that one sucks.
22:30 And Boston's is meh. But I liked Philadelphia's, like seeing it
22:35 in person. After seeing it in the initial photos, I was like,
22:39 "Ew, this sucks." But then like seeing it in person, I was like,
22:42 "Okay, this is actually not bad." And then I traveled to
22:46 Detroit for that in-season tournament game, the first in
22:50 season one for Philly. Detroit, I didn't understand the gray
22:54 because like where do you find the gray in terms of Pistons and
22:57 things like that. But the orange down the middle looked clean. I
23:01 liked it. I also think these guys are taking it seriously.
23:04 Like, listen, I understand why they did it. People, the casual
23:10 fan, which I think the casual fan makes up about 90% of NBA fan
23:14 bases. I really do. Because you're not going to tune in and
23:17 watch all 82 games. You're just not. So the casual fan needs
23:22 something around this time of the year, because nobody gives a
23:26 damn about the NBA this time of the year. It's all about
23:28 football, football, football, football. And especially me
23:31 living in Philadelphia, the Eagles own this entire area. It
23:35 doesn't matter. So you got to attract fans. And the numbers
23:38 don't lie. I think I saw something that like, they're up
23:40 55 million views compared to around this time last year,
23:44 numbers don't lie. And I think it's awesome. Getting these
23:47 guys actually care.
23:48 Dang, I didn't know about the viewership numbers. I've done
23:53 my take on the in season tournament a year before, but
23:56 okay, fine. You got the numbers to back it up. You mathematician.
24:01 Yeah. Hey, listen, again, I didn't do it. I saw it on, you
24:05 know, ESPN's, you know, viewership, or whatever the
24:08 hell the report they put out.
24:10 Well, they got to sell a new TV deal. So hey, if it works. Okay,
24:14 let's close the news with I got engaged. That was that's the
24:17 most important news. How's that? Okay, good job. Thank you.
24:20 Thank you.
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24:57 Into the lab we go. Everyone put on your safety goggles.
25:01 Circuitous route to get here, but here we are. We're going to
25:06 look at the state of the Eastern Conference. I think we've talked
25:09 enough about the Celtics. Celtics and Sixers, we'll double
25:11 back a little bit here. But we're going to work with the
25:14 tiers that Dr. Quinn, you cooked up and I'll let people agree or
25:18 disagree with them. So we're going to look at the entire
25:21 conference, but to the benefit of time, we're going to move
25:23 pretty quick. These are the teams that we think are about
25:27 where we expected them to be. So Boston is the, and it's early,
25:31 the one spot in the standings. Philadelphia is number three.
25:35 Indiana is number six and Brooklyn is number 10. Anyone
25:39 surprised by any of those?
25:41 You missed some.
25:42 Okay, yeah, they stink.
25:46 They stink. Fair enough. But we thought they were going to
25:49 stink.
25:49 So we thought that Boston was going to be good. So far, so
25:53 good. We thought Philly was going to be pretty good. So far,
25:55 so good. We thought Indiana was going to also be good. But the
26:00 difference between fourth and sixth is still pretty small. I
26:05 bet Brooklyn is worse than consensus, but I think this
26:08 quartet knew that. And then Toronto is bad. Charlotte is
26:13 bad. Washington is bad. And some of us were high on Detroit going
26:18 into the season. Others
26:19 going to be bad. I just didn't expect them to be quite this
26:24 bad. But I did expect them to be a lottery team.
26:26 I you know, I was, I was kind of hoping that they would, you
26:30 know, not be playing Killian Hayes and James Wiseman as much
26:35 as they have been. It seems to me that Detroit has some good
26:38 players on this team that are currently being actively
26:43 cannibalized by well, not so good players. So I think
26:48 Detroit's I'm still perhaps foolishly somewhat optimistic on
26:52 them. But Monte Williams, maybe sort out your rotation a little
26:56 bit there, boss.
26:56 Just some shooting.
26:58 I that's the hometown team. What do you think? Yeah.
27:01 For me, for me with Detroit, it's this poor roster
27:05 construction. And Alex was kind of alluding to it is this and
27:09 Justin, you too. They don't have any shooters around Kate
27:12 Cunningham. You know, I saw something crazy today. So he's
27:14 averaging 7.1 assists on the year, which is really good.
27:18 According to NBA tracking stats, he should be averaging 14.
27:22 Asking the Killian Hayes. Yeah. And I saw Thompson and I love a
27:29 sorry Thompson. But sometimes I can't shoot. But he's an elite
27:32 defender. I saw Thompson is terrific. I think that kid is
27:36 going to be awesome. He just can't shoot yet. And he's going
27:40 to eventually develop a shot you can you can tell us there. But
27:43 the point is, Cade is doing everything he possibly can. But
27:47 he's got nobody to pass it to and even Jaden Ivy and Ivy is
27:52 terrific as well. But I need strength is not shooting. I've
27:55 used I've be strength is handling the ball and getting
27:57 into the basket and making plays that way. So no, I think it's
28:01 poor roster construction. And I think the GM Troy Weaver needs
28:05 to kind of look himself in the mirror and be like, Yo, I need
28:07 to help Kate Cunningham. Because you're wasting Kate Cunningham.
28:11 You really are you're wasting him. He's averaging 27 and five,
28:15 I think, on a really, really awful team. It's kind of crazy.
28:20 It's like they have to start yet. There are four and 37
28:23 since the trade deadline. Four and 37. Over the course of an
28:28 82 game season. That's eight and 74. That's on pace for that.
28:32 That's embarrassing. Historically bad. Yeah. Yeah.
28:34 And he smokes and they lock out Hornets bad. And they shouldn't
28:39 be that bad. I think Monte Williams, I think is the right
28:42 guy for that job. I really do. Because he's shown in the past,
28:46 not just with Phoenix, but a lot of people forget about his days
28:49 with coaching New Orleans. He has shown in the past that he
28:54 can work with young talent and, and change cultures and get guys
28:57 in the right direction. But he needs a roster to work with. And
29:00 I think Troy Weaver needs to realize, hey, I need shooting.
29:03 And I understand boy on Bogdanovich has a play jet. I
29:06 understand that Joe Harris has been in and out of lineup with
29:09 injuries. I get it. But if you're Troy Weaver, you still
29:13 need to go out and get shooters because even with boy on and Joe
29:15 Harris, that's not enough. It's not.
29:17 I just Jalen Duren is good. Like he should be the guy that
29:22 plays. Why are we doing the James Wiseman thing?
29:25 Well, Duren starts. It's not like by Duren. Duren does start.
29:29 It's just like Duren and Stewart. Those should be the
29:32 only bigs that play meaningful minutes for this business team.
29:35 Try a little bag. Yeah.
29:37 Yeah, I thought I think I think bag was been okay. But I agree
29:40 on Wiseman. I think wise me we better off, you know, on
29:44 another team and get like more opportunity that way. But yeah,
29:49 I mean, you get it says they're in a tough, tough spot. And I
29:52 think Kate Cunningham, you know, he deserves a better roster.
29:55 I don't think any team wants to be bad enough to start James
30:00 Wiseman right now. I am interested if Bogdanovich and
30:04 Harris are both healthy, that changes things for Kade. Pretty
30:08 good. So Detroit is down on its luck. They might finish at the
30:13 bottom of the barrel just because how poorly they've come
30:15 out of the gate, but I suppose there's room for improvement.
30:17 I'm going to jump ahead. We talked about Orlando, definitely
30:21 the most surprising team in the east. I think we've covered
30:24 that. Dr. Quinn, you have that these teams are disappointing
30:29 the basketball gods. And I would put Chicago in the they are who
30:34 we thought they were. They are just as bad as advertised even
30:37 the most hopeful.
30:38 I thought they were going to be flirting at least in the early
30:43 part of the season with maybe having the potential to be a
30:46 playing team. But ha ha ha no.
30:47 No, I mean, I guess I didn't think that the mood around the
30:53 Bulls would be this bad this quick. But I think the roster
30:56 those
30:57 puzzles, we didn't think they were bad. They're just supremely
31:00 bad. They might be the worst team in terms of like, vibes,
31:04 internal vibes anywhere in the east.
31:07 Yeah, it's them in the clippers to see who's gonna blink first,
31:11 I suppose. Let's do Cleveland and Atlanta really quick. So
31:14 they're the eight and nine seed right now. I'll do it this way.
31:19 Which team is more likely to make some noise in the Eastern
31:21 Conference playoffs, Cleveland or Atlanta, Kai?
31:24 Atlanta. And the reason why I say that is because they've been
31:28 to the Eastern Conference Finals. And I mean, I know
31:30 they've been down ever since that conference finals
31:34 appearance. They lost to Miami as the eighth seed in 2022.
31:38 They lost to Boston as a seventh seed in 2023.
31:42 But it like the point is, I think Quinn Snyder is a
31:47 terrific coach. And I think that when you look at that roster up
31:51 and down, Trae Young is still a very dangerous point guard in
31:55 this league. So
31:56 if you if you asking me, I would say the Hawks, but it wouldn't
32:02 surprise me if it was the Cavs. I mean, Donovan Mitchell is a
32:05 proven playoff performer. He didn't he wasn't very good
32:07 against the Knicks last year in round one, but he showed with
32:10 the jazz that he's one of the better playoff performers in the
32:13 league. So if it were to be the Cavs, it wouldn't be too much of
32:16 a shock. But if you're asking me right now, I would say the
32:19 Hawks. Also real quick, I do want to correct myself. I said
32:22 cage NBA tracking said cage should have been averaging 14
32:26 assists, he should have been averaging 13.1 assists. So I was
32:30 off with that one. I apologize. I read that wrong. So we don't
32:33 we don't do math as we've established. So that's exactly
32:36 exactly. So either way, Kate should be averaging a lot more
32:39 assists that we're averaging right now. But still, but yeah,
32:42 the Hawks would be my answer to that one camp for sure.
32:44 I think you're totally right on that just to chime in really
32:49 quickly. And I also think to to the Hawks point, the Hawks have
32:54 had the fourth hardest schedule in the league so far. And they
32:57 are 500. And that's without Trey young shooting particularly
33:01 well, I am totally bullish on a Hawks resurrection, particularly
33:06 over the middle to latter half of the season, I feel like the
33:09 shooting variance is going to sort itself out. Jalen Johnson
33:12 being hurt is a problem for this Hawks team. He's really good and
33:15 fairly essential to them having the size on the perimeter to
33:20 really make an impact. But once he gets healthy, and once Trey,
33:25 I think is I think Trey is due for some positive regression on
33:28 his shooting. Once that starts to sort itself out, I am
33:32 extremely bullish on this Hawks team and remain bullish until
33:36 proven otherwise.
33:37 Great, Dr. Quinn, the Hawks have it or do you think Cleveland is
33:42 the more dangerous team?
33:43 I think Cleveland has the same issue where they're a very
33:50 talented team on paper, but there's just something not
33:54 clicking with Donovan Mitchell. I honestly think they would be
33:58 better off moving Donovan Mitchell for more complimentary
34:01 pieces than they have at the moment. And honestly, I'm
34:06 surprised that the Hawks are where they are in the standings
34:09 at present. When they came here to Mexico City, they looked
34:13 every bit a playoff team. They're flirting with a play in
34:17 a bit at the moment. So I think I have to agree, though, I don't
34:22 necessarily think that just because Cleveland is bad now
34:25 that they can't make some moves that will improve them. I don't
34:28 think they're gonna move Donovan to be clear, but they could make
34:31 that team a little bit better balanced.
34:33 I think both teams would be interesting trade candidates
34:38 whether or not that's the right move for them. I mean, they're
34:41 both probably pretty desperate to make a deep playoff run. A
34:45 team that's kind of in a similar camp, but I think has an obvious
34:49 ceiling would be the Knicks who are the seventh seat right now.
34:51 I just, I don't think the Julius Randle thing makes any sense. He
34:56 doesn't seem like he enjoys playing for the Knicks. The Knicks
34:59 don't seem like they enjoyed playing with him. But he is a
35:02 huge part of what they do until proven otherwise. So I kind of
35:06 think either the Knicks are seventh, I think of those three,
35:10 they're the team with the least punch. Anyone want to take a pro
35:15 Knicks stance before we move on?
35:16 I think if they can solve the Randle problem, that they could
35:20 depending on who they brought in, if they could find a good
35:23 trade partner for that, then there is some real potential
35:26 there. But I think they're gonna be keeping their powder dry for
35:28 a bigger move in the offseason.
35:29 Um, I would see what the Knicks is just like, it's interesting
35:35 because Jalen Bronson is awesome. Jalen Bronson is
35:39 awesome. And I love Mitchell Robinson. And I love Devin
35:44 Chenzo and Josh Hart. Grimes like like, RJ Barry is good is
35:49 beginning to really grow on me who I didn't like at the
35:51 beginning, but he's really beginning to grow on me. And
35:55 then there's Julius Randle, who is just like, it's just like,
35:59 dude, like, like, the shots he takes is crazy. It's, I don't
36:05 know. He's just he's very, I think he's a very good player. I
36:09 really do. But then there are other things that he does where
36:12 it's like, dude, what are you doing? But my mom is like, my
36:16 brain just explodes. Like Julius No. So next, I was at the Knicks
36:21 Celtics home opener for the Knicks and Julius Randle was
36:25 booed by home fans. Yeah, it's not surprising. It's New York.
36:29 I think New York's a simulation every time I go up there for
36:34 whenever the Sixers have to play the Knicks or the Nets. Shout
36:38 out Sharif Keaton over at Nets Wire. But I mean, New York in
36:43 New York is a simulation. I don't like it.
36:45 Right. Well, let's move on. I will say my favorite line about
36:52 the NBA is Julius Randle plays hoops like he's wearing jeans.
36:55 I haven't heard such like a summative quip in a while. Okay.
37:02 So I think we think the Celtics are real contenders. Kai, you
37:07 think that the Sixers have a ceiling, but they could also
37:11 make a move. So we'll, we'll give them their flowers. We'll
37:14 say they're contenders for a deep playoff run. The two teams
37:18 the two teams that I don't think we know enough about right now
37:22 are the Milwaukee Bucks, who stumbled but now are third in
37:26 the standings. And the Miami Heat, who have stumbled and are
37:30 now five and the standings. Miami has had a particularly
37:34 tough schedule and played a lot of road games. So let's start
37:38 with the Bucks. Kai, I'll go to you. If you are a Bucks fan,
37:43 what's your level of concern, if at all, vis a vis their status
37:48 as a contender?
37:49 Okay, so I think the issue is still defensively. I mean, I
37:55 think it's obvious, right? They've been an absolute mess on
37:58 that end of the floor. I also, I'm also very curious to see how
38:04 the team would look at Mike Boone, who is their whistle
38:06 coach. And it's such a shame that he got fired. And I get it.
38:11 They got this. They got boat raced by the eight seed, you
38:15 know, in round one. You know, they lost in five. They pretty
38:20 much lost to one guy. His name is Jimmy Butler. So, so I
38:27 understand it. But it's a shame Boone hoser isn't coaching this
38:30 team. So I feel like a Boone hoser was coaching Dame Lillard,
38:33 Malik Beasley, Giannis, Brooke Lopez and all these guys. I feel
38:37 like that they they wouldn't like have the same concerns that
38:41 were happening about them right now. And it's not not going
38:43 Adrian Griffin. I'm not saying that Adrian Griffin, I think is
38:47 he was he I think he's a very good coach. I'm not saying he
38:52 isn't. But I just Boone hoser is obviously you know, he is who he
38:55 is. He's got a title on his resume, coach of the years,
38:58 multiple. And he's a he's a terrific coach. So yeah, I think
39:04 that's probably the one thing that's concerning is the defense
39:08 with that Milwaukee team, but you got Damian Lillard and
39:10 Giannis. So that kind of X's out a lot of issues.
39:14 Dr. Quinn, where are you at with? Yeah, Dr. Quinn, where
39:18 you out with the Bucs?
39:19 I don't have too much more to add. I think Kai really nailed
39:24 everything that I'm thinking about this team. I'm wondering
39:28 if they can find some cheaper wing defense somewhere at the
39:33 trade deadline, they do not have much to work with. But they
39:37 might find a team that is looking to shed some salary
39:40 because they are not going to be in the running for what they
39:42 thought they were at the deadline. That's really the
39:45 only the only way I see them being a top tier contender
39:48 capable, they might be able to beat everybody else in the east
39:51 have to catch fire all on Miami last year. But the way things
39:55 look now I don't see them being Denver, or whoever else comes
39:59 out of the east, or excuse me the west, without some
40:02 additional defenders because right now they're just terrible
40:05 on the wing.
40:05 Well, I have a concern for the Bucs that is not necessarily
40:11 just defensive oriented. And that is the play Chris
40:15 Middleton, who is currently averaging a little under 12
40:20 points per game. For rebounds. Chris Middleton is shooting 32%
40:26 from deep guys. The Bucs are not going to be winning anything if
40:30 Chris Middleton one of their highest paid and one of their
40:33 most important players continues to shoot 32% from three, but
40:38 it's just not going to happen. None of it works. Chris
40:41 Middleton hasn't been a good defender for three years now a
40:44 lot of that due to injury, but nonetheless, he hasn't been good
40:48 on that end. And in general, if he's not going to be able to
40:52 shoot reliably and hit threes at a high clip, he's just not a
40:57 net positive player and you can't afford to have that guy
41:01 be your starting small forward if you're trying to win a
41:04 championship if he's going to continue to play like this. Now,
41:07 he's been in and out of the lineup, they're limiting his
41:09 minutes. It's been a weird season for him. I get that. But
41:13 the reality is this as good as Damon Giannis can be, if Chris
41:17 Middleton isn't there to be a third option, defenses will queue
41:21 up on them in the playoffs, and they will really, really
41:24 struggle to do what they need to do.
41:27 Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I just think the defense
41:31 is not good at all. Sibley's. Hi, where you at with the heat?
41:38 Who? I'm sure this time last year we were saying, I don't
41:41 know what they're up to, but it's not enough. And then look
41:44 at them, they went to the finals. So where you at with
41:46 Miami Heat? For me, you can't count them out. And I said it
41:49 last year. I said it last year. I said it the year before I
41:52 said the year before that said the year before that. You can't
41:55 count them out. I don't care who's on that damn roster. I
41:58 don't care if they're drafted, undrafted. I do not give a damn.
42:00 You can't count the Miami Heat out. They always find a way. I
42:04 think they're, I think they're more they're one of the more
42:07 impressive organizations in the league. So I don't I don't give
42:13 a damn if they're starting me, you, Alex and Justin alongside
42:17 Jimmy Butler, we're going to have a shot at a title because
42:20 because it's the Miami Heat, they just find a way. So I'm
42:26 like, they're realistically, they're probably a tier below
42:29 like Boston and Philly and Milwaukee. And then as I showed
42:34 it's really just Butler and Bam, those are the only stars they
42:36 have Kyle Lowry is capable of having a turn the turn the
42:41 clock back game every once in a while. And but Duncan Robinson,
42:47 they've resurrected him. I know he's I know he's hurt right now,
42:50 but Robinson has they've resurrected him. He's putting
42:53 the ball on the floor. Now he's throwing lobs. He's doing this.
42:56 He's still shooting the three ball as if they're layups. Jaime
43:01 Hawkins Jr. This kid was the 18th pick in the draft and all
43:04 of a sudden he's, he's a rotational player for the
43:07 defending Eastern Conference champs. I like Josh Richardson.
43:12 I know Celtics fans don't I know he didn't do much. I can he was
43:17 fine. It was fine. Really, really. I saw Celtics fans on
43:20 Twitter, you know, just complaining about Josh
43:23 Richardson. So I mean,
43:24 Derek White is better than Josh.
43:27 For sure. Of course. Yeah, Jay Rich is a he's a he's a good
43:31 player, man. I like him. Who else? They just find players
43:36 Caleb Martin. You know, I know Celtics fans are very, very
43:39 familiar with Caleb Martin.
43:41 I believe I Smith, who they just invented.
43:46 Computer generated name. I mean, what are we doing here?
43:50 Former former 76 or Heywood Highsmith. So I mean, again,
43:55 like that he team, I'm not counting them out. They're going
43:58 to be in the mix. I don't give a damn what seat they are. I
44:01 would pick them over a lot of things.
44:04 I'm really looking forward to cam shooting 45% from deep in
44:07 the Eastern Conference finals. If you've ever played
44:10 basketball with Kim, you know what I'm talking about.
44:12 I appreciate it.
44:14 And the coaching with respect to Nick nurse and Adrian Griffin
44:21 and
44:22 your Muslim
44:23 Muslim, the heat have the advantage there. So, okay, let's
44:27 do our outro. And then I have one last question for you. The
44:29 question is going to be right now, who are you picking for the
44:33 Eastern Conference finals matchup? So let me do my outro
44:36 first. You have been listening to the Celtics that podcast
44:39 brought to you by fan dual exclusive wagering partner of
44:42 the CLNS media network. We've been talking to Kai Carlin. He
44:45 writes for Sixers Wire and USA Today, SMG Kai. Thanks for
44:50 stopping by and give us your it is what's today November the
44:54 28th. So someone put a pin in this November 28. He got the
44:58 Eastern Conference finals as of today.
45:02 Celtics in the heat. Round three, round three.
45:06 Yeah.
45:08 I like it emotionally. I don't. I'm not strong enough.
45:13 That'd be fun.
45:15 I'm gonna say round three. Celtics Celtics and he again, I
45:20 don't care what seed the heat are. I don't give a damn. I
45:23 think they're complete.
45:24 It's really round four. If you think even back just one year
45:28 prior to 2020. Yeah.
45:32 I this is gonna blow up completely in my face. I can
45:36 already feel it. Um, I like Boston and I I think it's the
45:41 Philadelphia 76ers. I really do. I think Nick nurse is a much
45:46 better coach than Doc rivers. I believe in Tyrese Maxie. I think
45:50 he's the real deal. I currently have it that the Sixers survive
45:56 a slog rock fight with the Bucks in round two and then come in to
46:02 face the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals. I think it
46:06 would be a really fun series and I am very much looking forward
46:09 to it. So I am not trying to travel to Milwaukee a couple of
46:12 times in a week. Alex won't do that to me, man.
46:16 All right, Dr. Quinn, what you got?
46:19 Well, I am going to talk about Tyrese Halliburton intentionally
46:23 because I think that is going to be one of the two teams along
46:26 with Boston. I think it's going to be a very fun series.
46:31 Wow. Cory Waldron is real. That's cool. Man. I didn't. I
46:39 didn't expect that. That's sexy. Cool. Someone definitely put a
46:44 pin in that one. Um, I think it's Boston because they're
46:47 dramatically the best team in the east even if sometimes they
46:50 play like dog shit. And Alex, I'm gonna go the opposite
46:53 direction. I think I'm gonna take the Bucks over the Sixers,
46:56 but I, Kai, respectfully, I would love to see that matchup.
46:59 It's the way they correspond really works even if it means
47:05 you have to come on a flight to Milwaukee a couple times. Maybe
47:07 it'll be a sweep. Maybe you only have to go once. I don't know.
47:10 Yeah, I mean, like I'm just saying that the flight to
47:13 Boston is easier than a flight to Milwaukee. All right. So
47:15 flight, flight to Milwaukee or the group, they're complicated.
47:19 The Midwest man complicated. I was gonna say you could be on a
47:22 flight to Indiana. Apparently, I might. Damn, I might. All
47:26 right. Well, on that note, Kai, start racking up your airline
47:30 points. Thank you everyone for listening. Kai, I will see you
47:34 Friday as the Celtics play the Sixers, but everyone else, we
47:38 will see you in the comment section and the review section
47:42 of your favorite podcast app. Please like and review this
47:45 podcast if you haven't and until next week, adios.
47:49 [music]