In this episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast with Nick Cattles, Greg welcomes back BSJ's Mike Giardi to discuss the second week of Patriots training camp. From the newest recruits to the Quarterbacks, and right through to the coaching staff, Greg and Mike leave no stone unturned!
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for 39.99 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
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Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for 39.99 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles Podcast is brought to you by:
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SportsTranscript
00:00 This is the Greg Vidard Patriots Podcast with Nick Catwonster.
00:05 Hey everybody, welcome into the Greg Vidard Patriots Podcast here with Mike Giardi.
00:09 This episode is brought to you by FanDuel, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS
00:13 Media Network, where right now you can bet on a Super Bowl winner and you can get bonus
00:18 bets every time they win in the regular season.
00:21 So if you bet on the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl, which probably isn't great odds, I don't
00:25 know, they win 13, 14 games, you get bonus bets.
00:28 I love those bonus bets.
00:29 I use them all the time.
00:30 It's like free money.
00:32 So we're here with Mike and we've both been at camp every day.
00:39 This is a good breather.
00:40 They have the in-stadium practice tonight.
00:41 This is Friday afternoon.
00:42 We just heard from the assistant coaches earlier.
00:46 That's always a huge event around here and very newsworthy.
00:52 Tonight is the in-stadium practice, which where they don't really do much.
00:56 And plus the weather is looking really iffy for tonight.
00:59 They are off on Saturday.
01:01 So this is sort of a good breather.
01:02 It's sort of like the end of the first week of practice.
01:06 Next week we have the Patriots-Texans game at home.
01:11 And so we're just going to go through some things.
01:13 First, some hot topic issues, and then we'll give you some general thoughts on the offensive
01:19 defense.
01:20 And then Mike's been watching the passing drills a lot more.
01:24 Actually, I haven't watched them at all.
01:25 I've been focusing on the big boys as usual.
01:30 So Mike's going to give you his impressions of the wide receivers and the defensive backs.
01:33 I'm going to give you my impressions of the offensive linemen and the defensive linemen.
01:39 But first we're going to start with Jack Jones, who seems he hasn't been here very long, but
01:46 he always seems to be a topic of conversation.
01:49 So the latest incident involving Jack Jones was during Thursday's practice, about halfway
01:57 through.
01:58 They were doing team drills.
01:59 The defensive backs were wearing pads on their hands to keep them from basically clutching
02:06 and grabbing the receivers, which I think Mike will agree has been an issue in the last
02:12 few days.
02:14 They've been doing a lot of that.
02:16 And so there was an out pass to Kendrick Bourne that Jack Jones was in coverage of.
02:22 I was watching through my binoculars.
02:23 I could have sworn that he caught the ball.
02:26 Mike Pellegrino sounded today that Jack Jones made a great play.
02:30 Whatever happened, Jack Jones got very animated, threw off the pads that were on his hands,
02:37 was drawing, I think with Pellegrino.
02:41 He was hot under the collar.
02:43 He was going down the sideline.
02:45 I saw at that time, I think it was Sean Wade, Adrian Phillips tried to calm him down.
02:52 That didn't do much good.
02:53 Then he walked off the field with Jabril Peppers, had his arm around him talking to him.
02:58 Jack Jones went off the field, came back 20 minutes later, talked to Jalen Mills for a
03:04 while or listened to Jalen Mills for a while.
03:06 Mack Rowe talked to him at one point.
03:09 And so obviously we don't know exactly what happened in the moment.
03:15 Did he get kicked out of practice?
03:18 Which is the normal run of course there.
03:21 It's possible he walked off on his own volition, which I don't think I've ever seen.
03:26 I think the only time I've ever seen it, and I said this on TV last night, was when Kenny
03:31 Britt was here.
03:33 And Kenny Britt at one point just started walking off the field and playing with his
03:39 while practice was going on.
03:40 I've never seen anything like that.
03:41 Needless to say, Kenny Britt wasn't here much longer after that.
03:45 So we don't know exactly what went on.
03:50 But Mike, why don't you tell us sort of what the coaches had to say about it?
03:56 What was your view of it?
03:58 Are you alarmed by what's going on with Jack Jones?
04:04 Sort of all that stuff.
04:05 >> Jack Jones is 25 years old, Greg, and there is a decided lack of maturity there.
04:10 And I think you saw that again yesterday.
04:13 Now look, there's a balance here because there is talent.
04:16 I think Gerard Mayo, when we talked to him today,
04:19 didn't wanna get into the incident.
04:20 Actually referred us to go talk to Coach Pellegrino or to Coach Belichick,
04:24 who's not available, to have conversations with them about what happened.
04:27 And as you detail Pellegrino, just basically said, look,
04:30 I have conversations with all my players.
04:32 And I'm not gonna share what was said to Jack.
04:36 And that's pretty much where he left it.
04:39 But he's been involved in our news and
04:42 in their news a little bit too much here since arriving to the Patriots.
04:46 I mean, last year we know how the season ended for him.
04:49 And then there was some social media chatter between him and
04:51 Bert Breer when Bert reported the whole thing about him talking back to Belichick.
04:55 He insists he didn't do it.
04:57 I've heard otherwise.
04:57 I believe you've heard otherwise as well.
05:00 Certainly wasn't one of the big things there was he wasn't doing or
05:03 showing up on time for rehab for his knee, which sidelined him for a bit there,
05:07 which is also concerning.
05:08 You want the player to get back as soon as possible.
05:11 Then we have the offseason thing with the guns at the airport.
05:14 And I know in just in talking to people even before yesterday happened,
05:19 that there's a concern internally about how Jack will handle this.
05:23 It's hard to be focused on football when the charges are pretty serious.
05:29 And maybe yesterday was again sort of a little bit of an unraveling of him from
05:33 an emotional standpoint because of what's lingering there, but not a good look.
05:38 Makes you wonder how much longer they're gonna put up with it.
05:43 Again, some people think he's better than I think he is, but
05:46 I think he's still a usable player for them.
05:49 And that's secondary a good piece for them.
05:51 So it's complicated for sure, but
05:55 they need him to get his head straightened as possible.
05:58 >> Yeah, I just don't know how much longer they can keep going on like this.
06:03 I mean, how many chances is this guy gonna get?
06:06 I mean, just in the span of six months, he had the team suspension,
06:10 the gun thing, and now this.
06:13 And look, he's a good player.
06:17 He's got ball skills.
06:18 But at a certain point in time,
06:22 Belichick is going to have to get serious and
06:25 figure out a way the good that Jack can bring versus the distraction that Jack is,
06:32 and the problem that he's been to this point.
06:35 I don't think that's opinion.
06:37 I think that's fact.
06:38 He's been a problem.
06:39 And you couple it with Matthew Judon is doing his thing.
06:48 Trent Brown hasn't suited up in pads.
06:53 I couldn't help but wonder, leaving yesterday's practice,
06:56 what the hell's going on around here?
06:58 This is not the Patriots team and program that we're used to.
07:05 And look, times change and you can't coach and
07:09 run a program in 2023 like you did in 2004.
07:14 I think we all understand that.
07:16 But the bottom line with Jack Jones that I keep coming back to is,
07:21 like you said, he's 25 years old.
07:24 This is not a 21-year-old kid, 22-year-old kid.
07:27 This is not a guy who just all of a sudden had a bad run of luck and
07:35 can't get out of his own way, which you see.
07:37 I mean, this is a litany years of this stuff.
07:42 And you think he already feels like he needs to walk the straight and narrow,
07:49 and then he throws a nutty at practice and walks off.
07:52 If it's by his own volition and he basically walked off the field,
07:56 I don't know how Belichick can tolerate that.
07:58 That is quitting on your team.
08:01 That is quitting on your teammates and your coaches.
08:04 I mean, I said that he got kicked out of practice.
08:07 I mean, I can understand that.
08:08 If he mouths off, whatever, he did the moment, go cool off,
08:12 come back when you're ready.
08:13 I understand that.
08:14 But some people who viewed it think that he walked off on his own.
08:19 And I just don't know how Belichick can let that stand.
08:22 I mean, there's got to be some sort of punishment.
08:26 If it's not he's just gone now, then they need to make him sit and watch
08:34 or something like that because I just--
08:36 they can't keep doing this.
08:37 I just don't think they can.
08:40 And the thing was he's getting more and more reps sort of with the ones, right?
08:43 We've seen John McIlwain sort of slide back into the slot more in recent days.
08:48 And look, there's some positive-- as you mentioned, he's a ball hawk.
08:51 He's around the ball a lot.
08:52 He gets his hand on the football a lot.
08:53 And he was doing that at various points over the last couple of days.
08:56 So I think I was looking at it a couple of days ago.
09:00 I tweeted like, well, Gonzalez on one side, Jack on the other,
09:03 John on the inside.
09:04 That might bring your most--
09:07 I guess the best look at corner that you could get in terms of there's
09:10 some length on the outside.
09:11 You see Gonzalez with really good length and Jack at 5'11"
09:15 with some long arms, pretty good there as well.
09:17 And then putting John in his most natural place
09:19 where he's been a really good slot corner for the last couple of years,
09:22 that's probably their ideal lineup at this juncture.
09:26 And then like you said, he does this.
09:28 And I'll give you this too.
09:29 When he came back on the field--
09:31 and I detailed this on Boston Sports Journal--
09:34 as you mentioned, Matt Groh came over to him immediately.
09:36 He took a knee sort of away from everybody.
09:38 Matt Groh was with him for a minute, gave him a pat on the head.
09:41 Then Jaylen Mills came over and did most of the talking.
09:43 And then Jabril Peppers later, his practice was ending.
09:46 But he never really re-engaged with his teammates.
09:48 They had to come to him.
09:50 And even when the defense switched sides in terms of field position,
09:56 Jack went from one part of the sideline to the other,
09:59 he didn't come back with the group.
10:01 He was set back from the group and set away from the group.
10:04 And I don't know.
10:07 Guys were trying to embrace him.
10:09 And as we talked about, guys were trying to talk to him
10:11 and get him sort of in a better place.
10:12 And it just seemed like he was on his own program there as well.
10:16 And the cornerbacks were signing autographs after practice.
10:19 And I was like, well, they're not going to have him do that.
10:21 And then he literally went over there.
10:22 And I think he was over there for like two minutes.
10:24 And then he ran back in.
10:26 And that was that.
10:26 So just something we're going to have to keep watching here,
10:30 because it feels like there's a lot of strikes
10:33 against the player who has potential.
10:36 But is he really all that?
10:37 Is he worth that kind of trouble?
10:39 Yeah, I mean, like you said, when he came back,
10:43 you would think, all right, you go in and cool down.
10:45 All right, I made a mistake.
10:47 Maybe go apologize to a couple of people
10:49 and be like, I'm ready when my number's called.
10:52 Instead, he came back, and it looked
10:54 like he was throwing himself a pity party.
10:56 Way in the back, head down, guys are talking to him.
11:01 He's not really engaging.
11:04 I just don't know if this can go on much longer.
11:08 I really don't.
11:09 Other sort of news of the day, we
11:13 heard from the assistant coaches.
11:15 We heard from Bill O'Brien.
11:17 He, of course, was asked about Mac Jones
11:18 and sort of the hierarchy of the room.
11:20 And while he gave the usual response,
11:25 my impression of what Billy had to say
11:28 was that he definitely was more glowing about Mac
11:34 than anybody else.
11:34 He made sure to include everybody,
11:36 including Trace McSorley.
11:38 But he did say probably his best quote was,
11:41 well, Mac has done a really good job.
11:43 He's worked extremely hard.
11:44 I really, really enjoy coaching him.
11:47 I said to somebody earlier that asked a question.
11:49 It's one of the better quarterback rooms
11:51 I've ever been a part of.
11:52 They work hard.
11:53 They're very smart.
11:54 They're good guys.
11:54 They care about winning.
11:55 And they're here very early in the morning,
11:58 and they stay late to get the job done.
12:00 It's been a great group to be around.
12:05 I'm sure Talk Radio--
12:06 I haven't even heard yet.
12:08 They're on right now.
12:09 I'm sure they're going to make a big deal out of how come they
12:13 don't talk about him as the number one quarterback?
12:15 How come they don't--
12:16 like, Mike, I'll be interested to get your thoughts.
12:19 But New England's a different place.
12:22 They talk in a different way than any other place.
12:26 Mac Jones certainly didn't earn anything last year.
12:29 Has to re-establish himself.
12:31 I think he's done a good job of that in this training camp.
12:34 I think he's the clear starter.
12:37 Zappy is going to get his chances to impress, probably
12:42 even more going forward.
12:43 But Mac's still going to get a majority of the reps.
12:46 But unless Mac Jones completely fumbles the ball
12:51 and turns the ball over and the offense is stagnant,
12:55 I don't see Bailey getting much of a shot.
12:57 I think Mac's definitely going to start the season opener.
13:00 But look, things can change.
13:02 I'm not going to sit here and be definitive about it,
13:04 because who knows what happens.
13:07 Who plays against the Texans?
13:08 The joint practices with the Packers and Titans
13:10 will probably be the biggest factors in all this.
13:14 Bailey will-- I can tell you right now,
13:16 Bailey's going to get some snaps with the ones
13:19 in those joint practices.
13:20 It just comes with the territory.
13:22 But where do you sort of see the quarterback discussion
13:26 at this point?
13:27 Yeah, I think Mac's been the better quarterback, basically,
13:31 maybe for all but one practice here during this stretch.
13:33 And look, some of the stuff in the beginning for both of them
13:36 wasn't awesome.
13:37 I think we saw in the early days the defense sort of dominated.
13:40 There's been a nice uptick from the offense here.
13:42 The one thing that I made sure to point out in my article,
13:45 and I think yesterday, and you pointed out in your camp notes
13:49 as well, is there was a little bit of a change yesterday,
13:53 right, in terms of rotating personnel.
13:55 Mac was still getting the first team offensive line.
13:57 But there was three straight periods
13:59 where he was working with twos and threes at receiver.
14:02 And Bailey was getting the quote unquote ones, Devontae Parker,
14:06 Juju Smith-Schuster, Kendrick Bourne, and working with them.
14:10 So after getting one first team rep on whatever that was,
14:14 Wednesday, then to have that happen on Thursday,
14:16 again, just sort of a little bit of an expansion,
14:18 a little bit of an opportunity for him
14:20 to do some more things with better personnel,
14:23 albeit for Zappi in front of--
14:26 we're talking about the third offensive line at this point,
14:28 because there's so many bodies hurt
14:29 that the first offensive line is not really
14:31 the first offensive line.
14:33 So I think it was worth noting.
14:36 But at this point, I don't see any reason
14:38 why there should be a sea of change
14:41 at that Zappi has somehow worked his way ahead of Mac or even.
14:46 There was a little bit of a door opening from Bill,
14:49 just in terms of that.
14:50 And we'll have to see how it plays out going forward.
14:54 Yeah.
14:55 Let's sort of move on to our general thoughts so far.
14:58 My thoughts on the offense right now, I think it's been good.
15:04 It's certainly better than last year.
15:08 That's not difficult. But I haven't been overly impressed.
15:13 I think some of that has to do with the offensive line, which
15:16 is in shambles at this point, where they really
15:18 have only one bona fide starter, and that's
15:22 David Andrews out there, in terms of padded practices
15:25 and things like that.
15:27 Pressure has been a problem.
15:28 I think it's been more of a problem for Zappi and McSorley.
15:33 That's probably because, like you said,
15:35 they're going with the second and third teamers out there.
15:41 I like the variety that they've shown in the passing game,
15:44 the movement, motion, different types of stuff.
15:49 You could tell that it's tripping up
15:50 the defense a little bit.
15:52 It's stuff that they're not used to seeing from the Patriots,
15:55 and that's good.
15:57 I think Mac's been good.
15:59 I think he's been efficient.
16:00 I think the offense in general, the word I would use,
16:04 is efficient.
16:05 I don't think it's gangbusters.
16:07 I think a lot of the passes are of the check down short variety.
16:13 They haven't gone downfield very much.
16:14 That could just be a progression that they're building to.
16:17 Let's start with the basics.
16:19 I think Mac needed to do that.
16:21 I think Mac needed a reset, and I
16:23 think that's what they're doing.
16:25 But I know some other people observe practice,
16:28 and they think the offense is doing awesome.
16:32 I think they're doing well, but I haven't
16:33 been blown away by anything.
16:36 Hasn't really changed my thinking about the team yet,
16:39 but it's still very, very early.
16:41 There's a long ways to go.
16:44 If I had to assess where this offense is,
16:47 I would say it's sort of like where Mac was
16:50 at the end of his rookie year.
16:52 When Josh McDaniels tightly stage managed
16:55 Mac Jones, that's normally needed
16:57 with a rookie quarterback.
16:58 It's no reflection on Mac.
17:01 That's the progression.
17:02 And I think they're back trying to get
17:05 him to do the simple stuff well.
17:06 I think he's doing it well.
17:07 I think he's getting him in and out of plays a lot better.
17:10 Certainly, he didn't have that opportunity last year.
17:13 So I think the offense has been better.
17:17 Devontae Parker is still catching some 50-50 balls.
17:19 Jusius Schuster seems to be improving every day.
17:23 Kendrick Bourne hasn't done a whole lot.
17:26 Hunter Henry's probably been the best guy.
17:28 Pop Douglas has been the best receiver in my mind.
17:31 Mike Giscicchi's been invisible.
17:33 Tyquan Thornton hasn't been on the field.
17:35 So when you put all that together,
17:38 it's hard to be too complimentary about the offense.
17:42 But I think they're building something.
17:44 And I think they're off to a good start.
17:47 And I'll be interested to see once they
17:48 get a full offensive line and get the running game going,
17:53 I think it'll be even better.
17:54 But right now, I'd say they're doing a good job.
17:56 But I wouldn't go crazy about it.
17:58 What have you seen, Mike?
18:00 Yeah, I would say efficient, not explosive to this point.
18:03 I think you sort of detailed that.
18:05 There's a lot of underneath stuff, a lot of quick stuff,
18:08 which I'm, by the way, fine with.
18:10 Getting into this, so you've got to push the ball down
18:13 the field, yeah, there are times for that.
18:15 But they made their living for the better part of 20 years,
18:18 and it's Tom at quarterback, where they just
18:20 picked you apart underneath.
18:22 And I'm fine with that.
18:23 I think you can be a successful offense doing that,
18:26 as long as there is a play here or there.
18:28 You can stretch the scene, whether it's with Giscicchi,
18:31 or maybe Tyquan gets out there and actually shows you
18:33 something and stretches the field vertically
18:35 from the outside and opens some stuff up underneath,
18:38 which I think Billy has his eyes on.
18:40 I think that's part of what they're going to want to do
18:43 here.
18:43 I think the other thing that's really interesting to me is,
18:46 and you were just talking about it,
18:48 the best receiver has been Demario Douglas.
18:51 Now, again, we're eight days into this thing.
18:54 Practice nine on Friday.
18:56 Is that sustainable?
18:58 He's drawn my attention every day.
19:03 At first, it was sort of out of curiosity.
19:05 He made a play there.
19:05 He made a play here.
19:06 And then he starts stringing these plays together.
19:08 And then you're looking at how they're utilizing him
19:10 and the units that he's working with and playing more with Mac
19:13 and designing some stuff.
19:15 There's been a lot of stuff sideways,
19:17 where they put one of the receivers, multiple at times,
19:20 in motion, arc motion.
19:22 And he's been one of the recipients of the football off
19:25 of that.
19:25 So to me, is that a sign that they're--
19:28 we're giving you a little bit more.
19:30 We're giving you a little bit more.
19:31 And he's handling it.
19:32 And so we have to watch now how that continues
19:34 to progress going forward, because it's definitely
19:38 been a little bit of a surprise to have
19:40 a young player like that step up, six-round pick,
19:44 and deliver basically every single day.
19:48 That's not normally how it goes.
19:50 We saw last year with Thornton, before he got hurt,
19:52 like, I had a good day of practice.
19:54 Then the next day, ooh, that wasn't--
19:56 he didn't look like he was very involved.
19:58 Or he had a hard time getting off the jam.
20:00 With Douglas, every single day has been noteworthy
20:03 that he's delivered plays.
20:05 And again, don't want to get overly caught up in it.
20:09 But the fact that it continues to repeat itself
20:11 leads you to believe that maybe there is an opportunity for him
20:14 to carve out an actual real role in this offense
20:17 when the regular season rolls around.
20:19 Defensively, I think the Patriots
20:22 have been overall pretty good.
20:24 I think the best part of their game that I've seen so far
20:28 is their pressure packages, the games.
20:31 Now, that being said, I think the other hand of that
20:37 is the offensive line struggles that they're having.
20:39 I mean, this is-- what we've seen so far,
20:42 them getting some free rushers and things like that,
20:45 is not all that unusual to what we
20:47 see against bad offenses and bad quarterbacks
20:50 that we see during the regular season.
20:53 And I think that in the current state of the offensive line,
20:56 I think the Patriots up front are not good.
20:59 They're not even average.
21:01 And so I think the linebackers have done a pretty good job.
21:07 I still think that they are slow as a group.
21:11 We'll see as soon as Marte Mapu can get the red jersey off
21:15 and get involved, maybe that changes.
21:17 I mean, it should change.
21:20 I will say I've been interested that--
21:22 Jawan Bentley is doing--
21:23 I don't know if you've noticed this, Mike,
21:25 but he's doing a lot more of the Dante Hightower stuff
21:29 in terms of being on the line and then dropping back.
21:33 He's sort of going between edge and linebacker.
21:37 And they get the safeties involved with that.
21:40 Of course, it's about throwing different looks.
21:43 I think the safeties have been fine.
21:44 I do think that Kyle Duggar has probably given up--
21:49 he's given up some place to tight ends and things like that.
21:55 I think that I'm a little bit worried about the cornerbacks.
21:58 And I'll be interested-- after the break,
22:00 I'm going to get Mike's views on what he's seen in the one-on-ones
22:04 so far because I haven't watched any of those.
22:06 So I'll be interested to see just--
22:08 because I don't know.
22:09 It seems like they're playing a lot of zone and things like that
22:12 so far in camp.
22:14 So it's hard for me to see in the team stuff
22:15 exactly how somebody is playing press and things like that.
22:20 But the cornerbacks, it seems like they're
22:23 having a little bit of issue with the physical play
22:25 with the bigger receivers than they do.
22:26 Monte Parker, Jujus Smith-Schuster,
22:30 even Kendrick Bourne at this point because he's put on a lot of muscle
22:34 is bigger, it seems.
22:35 And the Patriots are just small and/or skinny at cornerback.
22:39 I mean, Gonzalez is tall, but he's a young kid
22:42 and he's not used to playing physical professional football yet.
22:46 Long ways to go for him, and I'm sure he'll
22:48 get there by the regular season.
22:51 Jack Jones is great ball hawk, but man, that guy is skinny.
22:56 Skinny's all get out.
22:57 And John Jones isn't a big guy.
23:00 Marcus Jones certainly is not a big guy and has issues with that,
23:04 especially in the red zone in coverage.
23:07 So I still think the defense is a work in progress.
23:11 And a lot of it's going to depend on how much pressure
23:14 they're able to get against the better offenses, the better
23:17 quarterbacks, and how that marries up with the coverage.
23:20 What have you noticed from the defense so far?
23:23 Well, you and I keep our own stats separate from--
23:27 you read a lot of different stats in different places.
23:29 But I think you had him for--
23:31 was it 31 sacks total?
23:34 I think was your number between Zappi and Jones,
23:36 in terms of the number of times they were sacked?
23:38 Yeah, I think it was Zappi had 20 and Jones had nine in my latest calculation.
23:43 I had 33.
23:45 Now, again, some of this stuff, you can't put the quarterback
23:48 on the ground, so you're sort of--
23:51 would he have gotten that ball off?
23:53 But he'd been able to sidestep that rush.
23:54 There's a couple that are questionable.
23:56 But that's a huge number.
23:57 And to your point, a lot of that is what's going on the offensive line.
24:01 You don't have turnout there in full pads.
24:03 Strange has been down for several days.
24:05 Really, the lone consistent piece in this entire puzzle
24:08 has been David Andrews in the middle.
24:10 But there's been revolving doors at guard, revolving doors
24:13 at right and left tackle.
24:14 Looks like, as I think you've talked about,
24:16 Connor McDermott is probably your right tackle.
24:19 And Riley Reif's going to be your swing at this point.
24:21 We still haven't seen Calvin Anderson.
24:23 And the way that Bill Belichick talked about him,
24:26 didn't really get a lot of insight.
24:28 Didn't feel like Calvin Anderson was close to being back on the field.
24:31 So that's, again, something to monitor on offense.
24:34 But boy, they generated a ton of pressure.
24:36 Uche has stood out to me.
24:38 It's like he's in the backfield.
24:39 We get into team periods, and he's in there two, three times,
24:43 where he's raising his hand as he runs by the quarterback.
24:47 Or you see the offensive lineman be like, damn it.
24:49 I couldn't keep my hands on him.
24:52 And that just sort of builds on the things that I was told about his work in
24:55 the offseason.
24:56 That just, he's always had confidence in himself, but he was able to do it last
25:00 year and stay on the field for 15 games.
25:02 That only took his confidence to another level.
25:04 Now he's added more to his bag.
25:06 I think he's the potential to have another.
25:08 I'd be disappointed if he doesn't end up with double digit sacks.
25:12 Gotta stay healthy, but he certainly has that capability.
25:14 And he's doing this right now without Matthew Judd on participating.
25:17 So it's not like the offense is, and they're not game planning, but
25:20 it's not like the offense says, we got Judd on this side.
25:22 No, Uche's the guy out there, and Uche's doing damage.
25:26 Anferty Jennings has shown up a few times.
25:28 Now whether that's again, just him taking advantage of some of the backups,
25:33 or whether this is something that's sustainable.
25:36 I remember they fairly high pick for them, and
25:39 it just hasn't taken hold because of injuries.
25:41 But I think they're definitely from a pressure standpoint,
25:44 from moving people around.
25:46 We've seen Peppers off the edge, we've seen Jalen Mills.
25:48 Jalen Mills was actually working with the pass rushing coach,
25:51 whose name is escaping me, Greg, at this very moment.
25:55 >> Joe Lee.
25:56 >> Thank you.
25:57 Yeah, working with him on his own, you're gonna come off the edge.
26:02 This is how I want you to attack it.
26:03 So I think there's a variety of things that they're willing to do.
26:06 Duggar, we've seen get involved in that.
26:08 So they have the potential, because of some of the body types that they have
26:13 there to sort of change how they attack and sort of leave a quarterback guessing.
26:19 Like is it the pressure coming from here?
26:21 See the linebacker on this player, see his safety, where's it coming from?
26:24 I think that's something that they certainly could use to their advantage
26:27 going forward, that's been nice.
26:28 We'll get more into the corner play.
26:31 I've liked Phillips, I think he's done a nice job so far.
26:36 I think Duggar has been hit or missing coverage, as you mentioned.
26:39 And I think Jalen Mills has sort of been hit and missing coverage as well.
26:43 And I still find myself thinking as we get closer and closer to week one,
26:47 I mean, you just mentioned, we got a preseason game on Thursday.
26:50 Like, really, ideally, you want it to be one guy in center field,
26:54 like who's that guy?
26:55 And again, I don't know that anyone's emerged and said, definitively,
26:59 it's gonna be me a large part of the time.
27:01 >> So we will take a break here to tell you about Fandel.
27:07 Then we'll be back with a few quick hit thoughts on the two lines and
27:11 the cornerbacks and receivers.
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27:34 So visit Fandel.com/Boston and
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27:40 That's Fandel.com/Boston.
27:42 [MUSIC]
27:47 So okay, Mike, I'm just gonna throw out some names.
27:51 We'll start at receiver and just give me a thought on each guy,
27:57 what you've seen, it could be in team, it could be in one on ones.
28:02 Devante Parker.
28:03 >> You mentioned winning jump balls.
28:06 I've seen him lose some and he's lost some to smaller guys.
28:10 John Jones out fighting him for the football.
28:13 Like, dude, it just can't happen.
28:15 Like that's what you're here for.
28:16 You should post that dude up.
28:18 That should be your football.
28:19 Largely, with the exception of a couple plays over the last couple days,
28:24 largely not really done anything here in camp so far, to my eyes.
28:29 >> Tyquan Thornton's basically been missing in action.
28:32 Juju Smith-Schuster.
28:34 >> Gonna get the ball a lot, I think.
28:35 I think they're gonna find ways to make him earn his money.
28:39 It's gonna be a lot underneath stuff, I think, but
28:41 we're seeing some stuff again where I mentioned they've thrown sideways as well.
28:44 You can just tell if he can stay healthy, he's a professional receiver.
28:49 In theory, he should be their best one.
28:52 >> Kendrick Bourne.
28:54 >> So you mentioned him gaining weight and its strengths.
29:00 I've wondered a little bit about his quickness.
29:01 And it's one of the things that I liked about him the last two years is that,
29:05 I've said it before, I've made up the words,
29:07 he's the twitchiest receiver they have.
29:10 He doesn't look as twitchy to me.
29:13 There's a little bit more physicality to his game, which I think we saw on Thursday
29:16 when he had a pretty good stretch in team period.
29:18 I think he caught five of seven targets in team period.
29:21 But I'm curious to see how that plays going forward, because I thought that that
29:25 was one of the things that made him someone, yeah, you can put him outside, but
29:29 you can put him inside and do different things.
29:30 And to this juncture, he doesn't look as quick to me as he has.
29:36 >> Keyshawn Booty.
29:37 >> Did zero, missed a practice, came back, made a nice catch on the sideline.
29:45 It was out of bounds, but showed good body control.
29:47 But then the last couple days has popped a little bit and shown some work.
29:50 He got some plays with Mac, as we mentioned, because they were alternating
29:53 groups and putting the twos and threes with the number one quarterback at this
29:59 point, but I think, whatever, it was worth the roll of the dice.
30:03 And you've seen a couple things that make you think, all right,
30:06 we'll see if this keeps progressing.
30:09 But it was nice to see him get a couple plays together and show a little bit.
30:14 >> How fast is he?
30:17 I haven't really noticed it, it doesn't jump out.
30:21 >> No, no, and it's actually, as you mentioned that,
30:24 I'm sure we're gonna get to DeMario, DeMario's speed, quickness pops.
30:29 To me, what I've noticed about Boutte in the last couple days is the body control
30:33 more than anything, and being able to almost, even though he's not a huge guy,
30:38 to be a little bit more physical at the catch point.
30:40 So I have not seen that sort of, that burst, and I'm sure what people remember
30:46 from watching the YouTube clips when he was a freshman at LSU.
30:49 >> Sounds a little bit like Malcolm Mitchell, a little bit.
30:51 >> Yes, from an on-field perspective, maybe, but
30:57 off-field perspective a little different, I think, for people that know sort of,
31:00 LSU people weren't all that disappointed to see Kayshaun leave, where Malcolm,
31:06 I think everybody spoke very highly of him at Georgia.
31:09 >> Yeah, without question, I just meant, Malcolm wasn't much of a burner,
31:16 even though I think he did have better speed than Kayshaun.
31:19 But both had very good body control, good on the back shoulder passes.
31:24 I see them similar there, and you talk about the off-field stuff.
31:27 I'm kind of surprised he's made it this far after he talked to some of
31:32 the people at LSU, but hey, it's a fresh start, and
31:36 you get to earn your place around here in the pros.
31:40 DeMario, Pop Douglas.
31:41 >> Super quick, faster, I think, than I thought.
31:46 Jabril Peppers mentioned it, I think it's a good point,
31:49 that there's a good physicality to him, even though he's 5'8", 192.
31:54 I think we talked about the last time sort of, he does,
31:59 they don't have a body type like him, and a skill set like him,
32:05 where you can put him in the slot, and he's gonna run that return route,
32:11 some of the option route stuff, and get open quick.
32:16 And to this point, again, it's just eight days, and
32:19 we're still not embracing full contact yet.
32:21 There's been bits and pieces of it, that he's been able to hold up to that.
32:23 So I'm curious, I think that you mentioned the joint practice,
32:26 that's gonna be interesting to me, when guys are going at him.
32:29 And then get him on repeated drills over a couple days, and then in the game,
32:35 what does that look like?
32:36 Because to this point, he's held up well,
32:39 he's been as surprising as anyone in camp, as far as I'm concerned.
32:44 >> It's been, I've heard some chatter about him possibly, excuse me,
32:48 about him possibly being the third down back.
32:51 I think that's a joke.
32:52 I think, look, is he a tough little physical dude?
32:57 Yes, he is.
32:59 But do I think he can line up on occasion in the backfield, and
33:03 you're looking for some sort of mismatch type of thing, a game plan thing?
33:07 Yeah, absolutely, he can do that.
33:08 But if you think that Demario Douglas, at his size,
33:11 can be a full-time third down back in this league, I think you're smoking crack.
33:16 As soon as every team's gonna, they see him in the backfield,
33:20 they're gonna send a Kyle Duggar type guy just screaming into him.
33:25 And yeah, you can run the slip play every once in a while, but
33:29 as soon as the Patriots are successful in that once,
33:32 the defense will have an adjustment to cover him if he just slips the block and
33:37 goes out, they'll have a plan for that.
33:39 I just think there's no chance of that.
33:41 Occasionally, yes, obviously, he can do that.
33:44 We've seen that in practice, but full-time third down back, no chance.
33:48 Yeah, that just seems like a scary proposition to entrust a rookie who isn't,
33:52 he's a wide receiver, and you're gonna put him there.
33:55 Let's let him worry about playing wide receiver and doing that, and
33:58 if he can make an impact there.
34:00 And then who knows?
34:01 Like you said, you can definitely, and
34:03 we've seen it with a bunch of guys over the years too.
34:05 Yeah, every once in a while, they line somebody up in the backfield that you
34:08 don't expect in the backfield.
34:09 But to ask that guy to be a regular on blitz pickup seems like you're asking for
34:13 your quarterback to get absolutely destroyed.
34:16 >> Trey Nixon.
34:16 >> I just think he's another guy.
34:20 He's had a couple plays.
34:21 He had a nice one from, I think it was from Zappy.
34:23 It was about four yards down the field.
34:25 I think he got, I'm trying to think,
34:27 I think it was Sean Wade was on the wrong end of things a lot.
34:31 He beat Sean Wade down the field, but I just think he's a practice squad guy.
34:37 If something really bad happened, he's someone you could throw in there, and
34:41 he'd run the play right, but I just, I don't see much there.
34:46 >> Raleigh Webb, who actually, I've been a little impressed with Raleigh Webb.
34:53 He makes plays.
34:55 He's pretty good, pretty good athlete.
34:58 >> He's a really good athlete, and
35:00 one of the reasons they brought him here too was the special teams capabilities.
35:04 He's made a couple nice plays in the passing game.
35:07 They did throw one to him sideways as well that Zappy pretty much got him killed on.
35:12 Christian Gonzalez kind of smoked him in the flat.
35:15 He did hang onto the ball.
35:16 Then he had a bad drop in one-on-ones.
35:19 So I wonder, I'm curious about the consistency of his hands,
35:23 because I've seen him fight the ball a couple times too.
35:26 And I'm wondering if that's, is that nerves?
35:28 Is that just those hands?
35:29 That's what they are, and that's one of the things that hold them back.
35:32 Because again, there is some good athleticism.
35:34 >> What, I'm curious, I mean, Hunter Henry's done well.
35:38 We don't really need to talk about him.
35:40 Furchter's a third or fourth down.
35:42 Sokol, I think, has done a really nice job and probably been,
35:46 outside of Hunter Henry, the best sort of two-way tight end.
35:48 He's done a really nice job blocking on the edge.
35:51 But I'm just, what have you seen out of Gisicky in sort of the one-on-ones?
35:57 He's been sort of a non-factor in team.
35:58 I think the Patriots are having a tough time figuring out how to use him,
36:02 because it's not just like, all right, let's plug him into the Aaron Hernandez
36:06 role, because he's not that type of athlete.
36:09 Nobody is.
36:10 But I don't know, does Gisicky have any juice in the one-on-ones that you've seen?
36:15 >> He has struggled a little bit with the physicality from some of the safeties
36:20 that he's faced in one-on-ones.
36:23 Look, the length is no question.
36:25 He does have juice in his legs, but he has struggled with sort of at times when they
36:29 engage with him of getting off the engagement.
36:32 His hands are soft, there's no question about it.
36:34 I've seen him kind of stick that paw out there every once in a while, and
36:37 he makes it play that way.
36:39 But it definitely feels like they're searching for
36:43 a place that he's going to succeed in this offense.
36:47 And I think that obviously they had a plan for him when they signed him.
36:50 And I don't think either he hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain, or
36:54 they're still sort of sorting that out.
36:57 Because at this point, he feels a little bit lost amongst the group.
37:01 I think we've seen, no matter my feelings overall on the wide receiver group beyond
37:06 Juju and Douglas, these guys had a moment or two in camp.
37:11 Yuseki still hasn't had that moment yet in team.
37:14 And then I go back to seven-on-seven, Greg, and I say,
37:18 if anybody's gonna pop in seven-on-seven, isn't it the six-seven guy who runs well?
37:22 >> Yeah.
37:22 >> Who there's been, he's a move receiver.
37:25 So when I say he's not tough, I mean,
37:27 he doesn't play like a typical tight end cuz he's not a tight end.
37:31 I would have thought that he would have popped there.
37:33 He hasn't really popped in seven-on-seven either.
37:35 So that's, I don't know, Matt called him his guy the other day.
37:40 I'd like to see some of those two guys coming together and
37:43 making plays cuz to this point there hasn't been any.
37:45 >> We've sort of talked about most of the cornerbacks, but we'll end it here.
37:50 Give me your impressions of Christian Gonzalez to this point, and
37:55 then I'll ask you among the other guys, like Amir Speed, Rodney Randall,
37:59 Isaiah Bolden, Quandre Mosley, Sean Wade.
38:03 Have any of those guys popped at all for you, but start with Gonzalez.
38:08 Cuz I haven't seen a ton of him outside of teams, so
38:12 I'm just wondering what you're seeing.
38:14 >> Yeah, so he's had some really good moments in one-on-ones.
38:18 In fact, did a really nice job.
38:19 Juju tried to hit him with a double move going down the seam, stride for stride.
38:24 Makes the play on the ball.
38:25 You can see all the things that we've talked about.
38:28 The one thing I would say is occasionally when there is that physicality,
38:32 that he's losing that battle.
38:34 And I think Douglas today said that it was a heavyweight fight between he and
38:40 Devante Parker.
38:42 And Parker's, I think, won a few more than he's lost to Gonzalez,
38:46 at least in the last few days.
38:47 And I think some of that is just him learning, all right,
38:50 we're gonna get down here.
38:51 You're gonna try to post me up.
38:52 I gotta be a little bit stronger when you make your initial contact on me,
38:57 because I think that's where there's, it's not separation.
38:59 I guess the smallest bit of separation has become because he can't,
39:04 maybe he loses his balance a little bit on the contact with someone like Devante.
39:08 Obviously, he's heard a lot, but he's played a lot of games,
39:11 been in the league for a long time, and is capable of using his body the right way.
39:15 But there are moments, whether it be in team or, as I've said,
39:20 in one-on-one, seven-on-seven, where you see that fluidity and
39:24 his ability to break on the football.
39:26 And that gets me a little bit excited that they have someone like that.
39:30 JC's only been gone for a couple of years, but I think there's an ability to be
39:35 that sort of man corner that they haven't had or they didn't have last year.
39:40 And that's, I think, appealing for the way they wanna play.
39:42 >> Yeah, I would term him as a pretty player, in more ways than one.
39:48 Look, he's a good looking dude, looks the part, but
39:53 he also, just in terms of his play, he's a pretty player.
39:57 Now, does that translate to being a dog and being a number one shut down corner?
40:02 I think that's the big question that we'll get an answer going forward the next
40:06 couple years.
40:07 >> Yeah, I don't think there's any question about that.
40:08 I wanna highlight Marcus Jones, cuz I think when we did our podcast a couple
40:13 weeks ago, served to me like an X factor.
40:16 How are they gonna use him?
40:17 We know about his athleticism.
40:19 He's obviously, he's good with the ball.
40:21 I still think I'd like to see him get some snaps on offense and
40:24 maybe that will develop over the course of time.
40:27 He has struggled mightily, in my opinion,
40:31 one on ones Douglas is kicking his butt.
40:36 And again, look, some of, and I always say this when you're doing one on ones,
40:39 I think it's harder to cover the inside routes.
40:42 >> Yeah. >> And the outside routes or
40:43 the ones down the field because look, there's no defensive lineman,
40:47 big offensive lineman with their butts in your face, like hands up.
40:50 There's no linebackers, clogging lanes, it's just you and one other guy.
40:55 Douglas made one catch on him, but it was almost like a triple move.
40:59 The play took, it probably took about a second too long.
41:02 So it looks great and you're gonna chart it as a catch and it's a nice catch.
41:06 Then you're gonna say, well, is that really gonna happen in a game?
41:09 Certainly not with this offensive line, it's not gonna happen in a game, so
41:12 as currently constituted.
41:13 So, but I just feel like there's been a lot of points in seven on seven and
41:17 11 on 11 too where, well, it's a catch by Bourne, who was trailing Marcus.
41:24 So I've seen of the guys that we sort of consider the guys that would play in
41:29 the secondary corner, he's one of them.
41:32 And of that group, he's been to me the one who struggled the most in coverage.
41:37 I even say that Miles Bryant has done,
41:40 actually I think Miles Bryant's had a pretty good camp to this point.
41:44 >> Yeah, I was just- >> I think we all assume, right, Greg?
41:47 Like, well, Marcus has got more skill and like, okay, they kept Miles and
41:51 he's a versatile piece, but you don't wanna play.
41:53 Well, Miles has had a good camp and he's certainly done a better job in coverage by
41:57 a long shot than Marcus has at this point.
42:00 >> Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean, everyone loves to hate Miles Bryant, and
42:04 they're not gonna like this, but I think that Miles Bryant has been running well
42:09 ahead of Marcus Jones to this point, and he's getting more time, and
42:12 he's doing different things, and he plays into the versatility that they want on
42:15 defense, and so right now I think Marcus Jones is an afterthought to even
42:19 Miles Bryant at this point.
42:22 I mean, look, it's just one week, so we'll see how things move going forward.
42:26 All right, we will wrap it up right there.
42:28 Mike, appreciate your insight.
42:30 Make sure everybody checks out fanduel.com/boston, and
42:34 we'll be back next week with more thoughts.
42:38 Thanks, Mike.
42:38 [MUSIC]
42:48 (upbeat music)
42:51 (upbeat music)