Michael “Schatzy” Schatzberg and Jimmy Frischling built Branded Hospitality to invest in tools that help restaurant operators win. Their podcast has become a key part of that mission—fueling awareness, driving deal flow, and building relationships across the industry.
Watch now to learn how a unique blend of friendship, investment focus, and a ‘takes a village’ mindset is helping hospitality brands grow with purpose.
Watch now to learn how a unique blend of friendship, investment focus, and a ‘takes a village’ mindset is helping hospitality brands grow with purpose.
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NewsTranscript
00:00And I've heard you on numerous shows talk about how much you love giving out free drinks.
00:05Listen, I'm just giving you me.
00:08I love giving away things for free.
00:26Welcome to Restaurant Influencers presented by Entrepreneur.
00:28I'm your host, Sean Walchef.
00:30This is a Cali BBQ Media Production.
00:34Special shout out to Toast.
00:35Toast is our primary technology partner at our barbecue restaurants in San Diego.
00:39They have over 120,000 restaurants on their platform and they-
00:43I think it's 175,000.
00:44175?
00:45Yes.
00:46Is that public?
00:47Yesterday that they just signed like- Sean, Sean, have you learned anything about
00:49chefs?
00:50No, I'm telling you.
00:51Don't let them take the numbers.
00:52Dude, I read the filings.
00:53I'm telling you.
00:54Yes?
00:55Okay, you read the filings?
00:56So give me a corrected information.
00:57I think it's 175.
00:58Wait, wait, wait.
00:59176.
01:00Just coming in.
01:01176.
01:02Just coming in on the wires right now.
01:03100.
01:04This is a preview.
01:05Yes, the team has just signed.
01:06This is a preview of things to come on this show.
01:10We're in New York City.
01:11We got invited by Google to come out here and the first place that we had to come was
01:16to our friends at Branded Hospital.
01:18That's a lie.
01:19You had like two hours in between your Google- Hey, hey, hey, take it easy.
01:22I like Sean's version of the story more.
01:24Take it easy.
01:25I like Sean's version.
01:26He's like, I got two hours to kill.
01:27Where can I go?
01:28We're going to do a restaurant influencers interview that we are doing in New York City.
01:31And I'll share a quick story for the listeners.
01:33Actually, this is the second time.
01:35The last time I was in New York City was for Toast.
01:37So Toast was having their IPO.
01:40And because of the IPO, we're on the Toast customer advisory board.
01:44We got invited, which was an incredible opportunity.
01:4620 other restaurant groups were here, but I came-
01:49You didn't get invited to that, by the way?
01:51I was here launching-
01:53These guys.
01:54Our restaurant influencer show, thanks to Toast.
01:56I talked to Kyle and Sarah, Mr. Restaurants on TikTok.
01:59I had him coordinate.
02:01And I was actually supposed to interview Shatzi.
02:04So I was working with the PR firm.
02:06This is September 2021.
02:07Shatzi was-
02:08My invite got lost in the mail.
02:09Shatzi was supposed to be one of the first guests on Restaurant Influencers.
02:13But now-
02:14Wait, what happened?
02:15You lost my phone number?
02:16You lost my cell?
02:17Apparently, the schedules didn't work out.
02:19Scheduling.
02:20It's called, I never asked Shatzi.
02:21I didn't ask-
02:22We were working with your PR firm.
02:23We were working with your PR firm.
02:24There you go.
02:25Well, either way, we're here.
02:26We fired them.
02:27We fired them right away.
02:28We're here at the B-Works studio, branded hospitality.
02:32And I have Jimmy, the finance guy, Shatzi, the restaurant guy.
02:36We're going to start with our favorite random question to Jimmy, which is, where in the
02:41world is your favorite stadium, stage, or venue?
02:44Wow.
02:45Jimmy's so good at this stuff.
02:47Yeah.
02:48Actually, let me be true to my colors, born and raised in New York City.
02:53And I know there are those who take issue with the world's most famous arena.
02:56But I was at Baseline Square Garden last night for a fantastic ranger game with my young
03:00daughter.
03:01And I find MSG for ranger games particularly, Knick games as well, and Billy Joel and other
03:07concerts, which I've seen too.
03:09There's never been an arena I've been to more than MSG for all sorts of events.
03:14And I will certainly understand there are many great venues in this great country and
03:17world of ours, but I'll take MSG and I back it up as the world's most famous arena.
03:21The world's most.
03:23We're going to go to MSG and we dream big dreams on this show.
03:25We interviewed Shaquille O'Neal, thanks to Big Chicken, Josh Halpern, but we're going
03:30to go to MSG.
03:32We're going to talk.
03:33These are the right guys to talk to.
03:34We're going to get some big sponsors.
03:35Toast, we're looking at you.
03:37We've got a lot of amazing tech partners, but we're going to fill MSG with hospitality
03:41professionals.
03:42And I'm going to give you the entire MSG.
03:44Look at that.
03:45I like it.
03:46The entire MSG.
03:47Maybe we should do the theater.
03:48Maybe we should do this.
03:49Start the theater MSG.
03:50Okay, we can start.
03:51I'm going to do the theater.
03:53We're going to talk about the MSG is 19,000.
03:54I think 8,000 to the theater.
03:55Let's start at the theater.
03:56We'll start small.
03:57Crawl, walk, run.
03:58There we go.
03:59Let's go to the theater.
04:00We're going to the theater.
04:01The theater at MSG.
04:02We're going to fill it 8,000 professionals, hospitality professionals, a different type
04:03of conference, but I'm going to give you the mic, Jimmy.
04:04Yes.
04:05And I want you to kick off the conference and I want you to answer this one question.
04:06Sure.
04:07It takes a village.
04:08What does that mean to the ethos of branded hospitality?
04:09Wow.
04:10I appreciate you asking that question.
04:21I will share.
04:26I understand that I've learned that it's an African proverb.
04:31However, for me, I attribute it to my mom who passed away a couple of years ago.
04:36at my younger brother's wedding, in her toast,
04:39she raised a glass and thanked.
04:42There were coaches, teachers, camp counselors,
04:45friends, family members, and she thanked all of them.
04:49And she simply said at the end of her toast,
04:52it takes a village to raise a child, to raise a son.
04:56And I remember hearing that.
04:57And I think-
04:58Three sons, what does that take?
04:59It takes a large village to raise three.
05:01That's a city.
05:02But I remember hearing it then and put it away.
05:06I was working at Wall Street firms and banks and whatnot.
05:09But when I started my entrepreneurial journey,
05:11I thought about how many people were playing a role
05:14and how many people were truly contributing,
05:17small ways, big ways, capital, time, advice, mentorship.
05:21And then it just seemed to click for me
05:23when I was signing off as an ethos,
05:25is it takes a village.
05:26Because I think about what we're trying to do.
05:28And you do this as well as anybody.
05:30This is a, it is a competitive business.
05:32Of course it's competitive,
05:34but it doesn't mean it has to be zero sum game.
05:36And it doesn't mean we can't lift each other up
05:37and you put stuff out there and you know what?
05:40See what happens.
05:41Yeah, we'll sew you a lift.
05:42Yeah, I'm sorry about that.
05:42I know, over here.
05:43Okay, thank you.
05:44You're still there though.
05:45I was just, I was just, I was just a major thought.
05:46I can't, I'm like looking at you like a pig.
05:48Anyway, so-
05:49Help him out.
05:50I appreciate that.
05:51Help him out.
05:52So, so I-
05:52We can edit this.
05:53We're not lying.
05:54You gotta keep this on.
05:55I think it's my skin.
05:56We even have the edit, Aaron's on it.
05:57I think it's my skin.
05:57Oh, oh, you want it?
05:59No, we're good, we're good.
06:02But, but the, it takes a village to me
06:04is about how much further we can all go
06:07if we're, if we're actually collaborating
06:09and again, thinking about how to lift each other up
06:12and working together.
06:13Be a little open to team.
06:14What's that boat one?
06:15Rising tide lifts all ships.
06:17Jimmy made that one up too.
06:18I did.
06:19That's a good one.
06:19And that's not an African proverb, by the way.
06:20That's not an African proverb.
06:21Which one is that?
06:22I don't know.
06:23That's probably a sailor.
06:24Probably, probably, probably a sailor.
06:26Do you know the difference?
06:27Because there's also a rising tide lifts all boats.
06:29I thought that's the one we just said.
06:30A rising tide lifts all ships.
06:32Do you know what the difference
06:33between a boat and a ship is?
06:34Well, I think maybe just the size.
06:36Maybe a ship seems bigger than a boat.
06:38That's right.
06:39Is that right?
06:39A boat can fit inside of a ship.
06:41Is that right?
06:41A ship can't fit inside of a boat.
06:42There you go.
06:43Dropping knowledge.
06:44The reason why, the reason why we say
06:45a rising tide lifts all ships
06:47is because we're looking for other leaders.
06:48Nice.
06:49Other leaders that are playing the game
06:50within the world.
06:51Look at that.
06:52What do we say?
06:53You say it takes a village.
06:53We say it takes a ship.
06:54We say that sometimes too.
06:55I've heard Jimmy say that.
06:56I swear I've heard him say that.
06:59It takes a village and it's not a throwaway line.
07:02I take it very seriously.
07:04And for those who want to be,
07:05you know, we want to go fast, go alone.
07:06I get it.
07:07You want to do the things the way you've always done them.
07:09I get it.
07:10And respect.
07:11I wish you well.
07:12But if you want to go far
07:14and you really want to be part of a transformation,
07:16which is what is going on in our industry,
07:18a true transformation,
07:20then I find you're better together
07:22and that's how we go further together.
07:24Give me high level.
07:25What is branded hospitality?
07:26Give me all the sides of the business.
07:29I'm so glad you're asking Jimmy's question.
07:31Hey, this is my show.
07:32I know.
07:33I know.
07:34I'll get you later.
07:37You know, I think-
07:38The restaurant guy comes later.
07:39Let me start with the finance guy.
07:40I think about this a lot
07:42because I respect that branded at times
07:45can be misunderstood
07:46and a smart person can explain, you know,
07:49a topic, a difficult topic to another smart person,
07:53but a truly intelligent one can explain it to anybody.
07:56Branded is first and foremost an investment platform.
07:59We invest.
08:00We've made 55 investments.
08:0280 plus percent of them have been in B2B SaaS
08:05and we call ourselves operator centric investors.
08:07The investments have to be good for the operator.
08:10We're not looking to work with companies
08:12that are trying to pierce the veil
08:13between an operator and their guests.
08:15We are very operator centric,
08:16invest in things to help the operator.
08:18And we think we understand the operator
08:19because we have a 30 year history
08:20of running and owning and operating restaurants,
08:22but we invest capital.
08:24We have a solutions platform
08:25that tries to accelerate these companies,
08:27particularly in the go-to-market
08:28and increase in top of funnel customer acquisition.
08:32And then to a certain extent,
08:33now we have a media business.
08:35It started as a marketing business and now become media.
08:37And the media is designed to, again,
08:40promote all that's good in this industry,
08:42boost and boast about others,
08:45as well as promote our companies
08:46and what we're trying to do.
08:47We invest, we accelerate,
08:49and we have a media business to promote
08:51the work we're doing
08:52and the very good people in the industry.
08:54We have that, that's our three ring circus.
08:56And I think it works as a flywheel
08:58to help our investments,
08:59because at the end of the day,
09:00delivering returns on capital
09:02is what our LPs expect from us.
09:03But we also get to work closely with companies,
09:06help them accelerate their business,
09:07and then help promote their business
09:09through our media channels.
09:10That's fantastic.
09:11I got to say, that was unbelievable.
09:12I know.
09:13It was too long, as always.
09:14You asked Jimmy some really great questions,
09:17and he's answered them almost exactly
09:20the way that I would have answered.
09:22I've been practicing.
09:23You basically have nothing to say.
09:25When you asked him the best venue,
09:27obviously it's MSG.
09:28He said, that one's,
09:29I don't know what I'm supposed to do now.
09:30Where am I going now?
09:32That's the best one, the best place to...
09:33I think you said something else
09:35into that first question.
09:36You've asked me like six questions.
09:37I'm just sitting here like an idiot right now.
09:39But you look good in the middle.
09:40All I get is he's got to get a little schmutz on his face.
09:43But you look good in the middle.
09:43And I get to wipe off.
09:44That's all I get right now.
09:45That's ovation.
09:46But he really did answer,
09:47I think, branded hospitality beautifully, Jimmy.
09:51We've been spending time on this.
09:53I didn't know you thought about this.
09:54I mean, also, people make plans and God laughs.
09:57I've been using that, by the way.
09:58I've been using that every day for the last few months.
10:01So you make a plan.
10:02Did you make that line up?
10:03I did not.
10:03I did not make that line up.
10:04But I did make it politically correct
10:06by saying people make plans and God laughs.
10:08But I will say-
10:09Well, what's the line?
10:10Man makes plan and God laughs.
10:11But regardless-
10:12You can't say that anymore?
10:13I don't know.
10:14But regardless, you make a plan.
10:15You're going to do this.
10:16And then you realize what's going on.
10:19We made a plan before COVID.
10:21We had a plan before COVID.
10:22I think Mike Tyson said it better.
10:24Everyone has a plan to get punched in the face.
10:27So COVID punched us in the face.
10:29And you know what?
10:29We had to adjust and pivot.
10:30And now I really feel we're hitting our stride.
10:32And love working with you and your team
10:34because, look, you own a restaurant.
10:36You own a couple restaurants.
10:37Right now.
10:37You're a media company.
10:38Yeah.
10:39Right now.
10:40Right now.
10:41So again, that wasn't your plan.
10:43No.
10:44But you met the reality where rubber hits the road
10:47and here we are.
10:48So how fun is that?
10:49Do not skip this ad.
10:51This is important information.
10:53I unboxed Toast, our point of sale,
10:56at our barbecue restaurants.
10:57And now here I am interviewing Shaquille O'Neal
11:00on the biggest stages.
11:02We want to hear your Toast story.
11:05If you use Toast in your restaurant,
11:07send me a message at Sean P. Walcheff
11:11on Instagram, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
11:17We want to hear your Toast story.
11:18If you're thinking about switching to Toast,
11:20we would love to help you.
11:22Please send us a message
11:23so that we can share your Toast story today.
11:29So Shatzi, when did you and Jimmy,
11:33yeah, this is for you.
11:35When did you and Jimmy officially become business partners?
11:38Tell me the story.
11:39Oh, that actually goes back.
11:41And I can answer that.
11:42Cause I think I know that.
11:43You see, these are, you're asking.
11:45Truth is good.
11:46My job is to ask good questions.
11:47Yeah, and that's a very good question.
11:48But we go back as business.
11:50I mean, we're friends first,
11:53I think we go back.
11:54Well, I was friends with Jimmy,
11:55I think he was friends with me or something like that.
11:58I always wanted to be friends with Shatzi.
11:59Always wanted to be friends with him.
12:00I think Jimmy, we had restaurants
12:02and Jimmy became a partner in the official partner investor
12:06in one of our early restaurants.
12:08You pitched him?
12:10Yeah, I think it was kind of like,
12:13yeah, I think Dean may have made him invest.
12:15One of our partner, I think he may, you know, said,
12:19you know, you have to be interested.
12:20This was a new concept that you guys were opening up?
12:23Do you remember which one it was?
12:23You were in first, right?
12:24Yeah, it was a long time ago.
12:26And that, so that was, and Jimmy was,
12:27I mean, he had his finance company at the time.
12:29And I got to tell you the best thing was for Jimmy.
12:31I mean, he had every one of his parties
12:33and events for his company.
12:34And he met 200 people in his company.
12:37Every, always, always at Dukes, always at Dukes.
12:40And it was like a roadhouse and it was awesome.
12:42And he was always a live fans, whatever,
12:45just always having a good time.
12:46Entertaining, always had a good time.
12:47So that was really when we became
12:48officially business partners.
12:50And it really wasn't more than just Jimmy
12:51really eating and drinking.
12:53You like to say eat and drink for free, but.
12:55I know, I didn't say, I didn't say for free.
12:57But it's like riding the bus.
12:58You pay up front and then you ride.
13:01Like it's not a taxi where you pay at the end.
13:02It's a bus, you pay and then you ride.
13:04And I think you actually paid for your parties.
13:06I did pay for my parties.
13:07I think I maybe got a small discount.
13:08Small discounts.
13:09I think he paid, I think he paid for his parties.
13:11Well, you know, by the way, that's interesting.
13:13I find so many people, particularly if they're equity owners,
13:16they want the discount, they want the discount.
13:18How about this?
13:18How about help make your business
13:20of which you're part of better?
13:22And how about that?
13:23Pay your tab.
13:23Pay for the, help contribute.
13:25How about that?
13:26The weird thing about the restaurant business
13:28that I find is unique to no other.
13:31And it's about the discounts and the comps.
13:33I love this.
13:34If you walk into, you own a retail store
13:36or a clothing store or something like that,
13:38or Bloomingdale's, you don't go in and be like,
13:40oh, you know what?
13:41Take the shirt.
13:42Take the shirt.
13:43Take two, you know?
13:44But a restaurant, it's like, you guess.
13:47It's almost like, I'm paying?
13:50I thought you invite me to your restaurant.
13:52You're charging me?
13:53Yeah.
13:54They don't, right?
13:55There's this, you should be buying me things
13:57at the restaurant.
13:57Let's talk about that.
13:58You started in the restaurant business as a host,
14:02but then you became a bartender.
14:04And I've heard you on numerous shows talk about
14:06how much you love giving out free drinks.
14:08That's the worst part, Robin, okay?
14:11Listen, I'm just giving you, me?
14:14I love giving away things for free.
14:16It's completely against everything Jimmy just said.
14:18Yes.
14:19You know, the investors weren't even looking
14:21for free things.
14:21Yes.
14:22And the customers weren't.
14:23They're like, I'm happy to pay.
14:24Stop it. You're not paying.
14:25Stop it.
14:26Take it.
14:26Let me just, here's my credit.
14:28No, you're not paying.
14:29You know, that's the-
14:30You know, you might've been a better bartender
14:32if Toast had existed back then.
14:34Yes, it would've been awesome.
14:35No ticket, no taco.
14:36Because, yes, the cash register to you
14:38and the serving of drinks was one too many tasks.
14:42So I think it could have been with Toast.
14:44I think you could have done it a little more seamlessly.
14:46And remember, you know,
14:47there was something called cash back then.
14:49And then there were coins.
14:50There were coins, Jimmy.
14:52No one even knows about coins.
14:53There were coins.
14:54It was a thing.
14:54There were tax and coins.
14:55And you were like, what?
14:57They would change.
14:58Yeah, there was too much.
15:00Now it's tap and pay.
15:01I could be a good bartender today.
15:02I think you're ready.
15:03I think you're ready to go back.
15:04So we have a lot of restaurant owners that listen to this.
15:06A lot of restaurant leaders.
15:08I want to hear a story about failure.
15:12Restaurant failure.
15:13Give me a story.
15:14I know it's hard as restaurant owners.
15:16We put all of these stories.
15:17We have PTSD.
15:18We don't want to bring them up.
15:19But Chatzi, tell me a story
15:21about your biggest restaurant failure.
15:24I mean, there's more than one.
15:25Yeah, I know.
15:26There's more than one.
15:27It's a lot of failure.
15:29Well, the key to this business is to not quit.
15:31I'm just thinking about one that was kind of,
15:32I don't know, it's funny.
15:33I think it's funny too.
15:35It's easier to laugh than to cry.
15:36It's funny now, you know.
15:37It's easier to laugh than to cry.
15:38Well, because Jimmy was an investor there, you know.
15:39We had a space that we had taken over
15:43and I don't know, it was a Mediterranean.
15:46And we're like, we're going to open something
15:48in this neighborhood
15:49and there's no Mexican place in this neighborhood.
15:51I'm like, there's no Mexican.
15:52This is awesome.
15:53We're opening a Mexican.
15:54We already had a seafood place.
15:55We had a barbecue or roadhouse place.
15:57We had a French bistro.
15:59There was a Greek place.
16:01So we already had like five restaurants in this area
16:04and it's right downstairs, right here.
16:05And we're opening a Mexican.
16:06I was like, oh my God, it's going to be unbelievable.
16:07We got a great designer.
16:09She worked for the Rockwell Group
16:11and it's going to be this really cool Mexican place.
16:14And it opened up and it was fanfare and influencers
16:18at that time, you know, it was like,
16:19whoever's in like page six or, you know, whatever, you know.
16:22Cam, oh my God.
16:23Those are the original influencers.
16:24You remember, right?
16:25It was a cool place and man, good looking people.
16:28It was so cool.
16:28And like, literally, like, I think like three months later
16:32or four months later, like Steve Hansen from BRGAS
16:35opened another, a new Mexican restaurant, Dos Caminos,
16:39like a few blocks away.
16:41You know what I mean?
16:42Like a few blocks away.
16:43And originally he said he was taking that space.
16:44He wasn't doing Mexican.
16:46So we were like, oh, okay, he's not doing Mexican.
16:48We opened them and so he opens Dos Caminos.
16:50Let me tell you, it just sucked all the thunder
16:53out of our place.
16:54We had like three months of glory
16:56of like the coolest New Mexican place.
16:57Yeah, and then that place,
16:59eventually we had to change it.
17:02Did you change it?
17:02Yeah, we did.
17:03You did change the concept.
17:04It became Big Daddy's, right?
17:05That became Big Daddy's.
17:06Chango became Big Daddy's.
17:07Which actually was a great success.
17:09So it was a good pivot, but it was just funny.
17:11We put all this time and energy
17:13and I remember going to every Mexican restaurant
17:16in New York City to try and taste food
17:18and find chefs, and we found a chef,
17:20and it was a great,
17:21it was just, put so much time and energy into it.
17:23Yeah, and it just.
17:24The only thing I would add to that is,
17:25and you mentioned it, yeah, of course you have fails.
17:28And anyone who says they don't, God bless.
17:31I don't know how that's possible.
17:33But I will tell you that every time I see a restaurant open,
17:36I am excited for them.
17:37And if I see it close, it hurts.
17:41Because I know the time, the money, the effort,
17:44the enthusiasm, every, it's such a personal business.
17:48It's gonna be so good.
17:49And sometimes you walk into a restaurant
17:51and you're excited for them.
17:52And you start, I can't turn it off.
17:54You start sizing it up and you're like,
17:56oh boy, this is trouble.
17:57This is like, and you start thinking, oh man.
18:00And you're feeling for the people
18:01because you see, you know the work that went in.
18:03Was it the Seinfeld episode?
18:05When Babu, didn't he open up the Pakistani
18:08or whatever, he opened up like an international?
18:12He said, I got an idea.
18:13Why don't you open a Pakistani?
18:14It'll be only in Pakistan.
18:15Which is life-saving, but you feel it.
18:18And you learn from it, which is great.
18:20But you know, some people don't have,
18:22taking that shot, it's huge.
18:25It's heroic.
18:25And then look at the failure rate.
18:27It's real.
18:28It's not the urban myth of 90% of restaurants fail
18:31in the first year.
18:32That's not true.
18:33But we do have a high failure rate in the mid to high teens.
18:37It has grown a little bit.
18:39We're in a kind of a feast or famine world right now
18:41where on the one hand, we have the highest watermark
18:44of sales in our industry, up and over a trillion.
18:47On the other hand, we've got an increasing failure rate.
18:50Both can-
18:50You're not going to stop bringing us down now.
18:51No, no, both can be-
18:52Sometimes you bring us down.
18:53Both can be true.
18:54Both can be true.
18:55We're trying to have an upbeat discussion here.
18:57We're having an honest discussion.
18:58You know, we can be honest and still upbeat.
19:00It can be an honest upbeat.
19:01By the way, he's doing honest Debbie Downer.
19:03So what's the highest?
19:04We had the highest sales-
19:05Whatever you do, kids, don't go in the restaurant business.
19:07Up and over a trillion dollar sales.
19:09And projected to grow another 5%
19:11and have the high watermark in 25.
19:13Shazzy, earmuffs.
19:15Earmuffs.
19:16Oh, you're going to put me down again?
19:16No, put your earmuffs on.
19:17But we are having an increase in failure rate.
19:19So it's, you know, both can be true.
19:21So let's, we talked about restaurants.
19:23I want to talk about investments.
19:25Give me a, share a story about investment failure.
19:27Sure.
19:29You don't have to name the investment, but just give me-
19:31No, I think I know where Jim's going.
19:33Yeah.
19:33You're going on the brand side.
19:35Yeah.
19:36You know, we are,
19:38when we're at our best,
19:39I think we're hitting our stride now.
19:43We need operators to tell us
19:46that they care about something deeply.
19:48I think operators in this industry
19:50are among the most JIT, just-in-time people.
19:53They are literally judged day-to-day,
19:55week-to-week, month-to-month.
19:57You can't talk about a 36-month tech stack plan.
20:00What's my five-year plan?
20:01What's my five-year plan?
20:02It's, and I think people that are not in the industry
20:05don't understand that.
20:06And I think we're all in the industry
20:07and we do understand it.
20:08And our success is when we hit something
20:11that an operator goes, I couldn't live without this.
20:12I quit without this.
20:14I need this.
20:15You're addressing one of my top four high priorities.
20:18It works.
20:19And one time we got so enamored by voice.
20:23We got enamored by, you know,
20:25to a certain extent how the typing, you know,
20:29could be or-
20:30Voice.
20:30I think voice.
20:31I honestly, I think we're just early with voice.
20:33And we're early.
20:34And that's the key.
20:35You have a young child.
20:38I have young children.
20:38They talk to YouTube.
20:39Yes.
20:40And that's the key.
20:41They literally tell YouTube.
20:42And that's 100% the key.
20:43I don't think, look, at the end of the day,
20:45when you're making early stage investments,
20:47and maybe I'll use a word that might bother
20:50some other financial professionals,
20:51but I'm very comfortable with this word.
20:53When you're betting, when you're making investments
20:55in early stage company, you're making bets.
20:57And I know people don't want to talk about betting.
20:58It sounds, you know, gambling, frivolous.
21:00No, you're betting because it's an early stage.
21:02You're betting on the CEO and his or her team.
21:05If you're early in the VC world,
21:08it's the same as being wrong.
21:09So-
21:10Or late.
21:11Well, late, yes.
21:12Because early and late go together
21:14like peanut butter and jelly.
21:15I agree with that.
21:16Like early and wrong don't go together.
21:18So early, so-
21:19Right and wrong.
21:20Yeah, so if you're early, I think voice, no,
21:23I agree with you, voice will get there.
21:25In fact, even now there are companies in voice
21:28that are making huge strides.
21:30It's just still too early.
21:31But it's early.
21:32It just is.
21:33Even my Alexa in the house, it just gets everything wrong.
21:36Now think about that in every language
21:38and then dialect and permutation of just English
21:41and how many people in this country
21:42have a different way of saying something.
21:45So it just takes a lot of time.
21:46And I think AI and how that advancement continues
21:50will just make it better and better.
21:51Eventually, it'll be all voice.
21:52But I can tell you, I know that I can go on my,
21:56you know, on an app, on whatever app you want to use
21:58to order your food.
21:59This is almost my, you might be my favorite guest
22:01changing hats the way that you have.
22:03So I want to, I just, my subtle approach,
22:06I kind of quietly told our partner
22:09and our head of media and marketing
22:11that I was going to try to break a record
22:13that I don't know if such a record exists.
22:15It already exists.
22:16How many?
22:17You've changed more hats than me, which makes it amazing.
22:20How many, and wait till you see the grand finale.
22:22But how many hats could I wear in a single podcast?
22:24That's fantastic.
22:25We only have four hats, DJ.
22:27Well, it's a short podcast.
22:28Yeah, I know.
22:29We can make it like Joe Rogan style.
22:30We could go, well, no, you guys have another show.
22:33Well, as speaking of shows,
22:34let's talk about the Hospitality Hangout.
22:35Let's talk about specifically about.
22:37God, it's about me and Jimmy.
22:39Well, finally, I know.
22:40Geez, well.
22:41All we talk about is you.
22:42I apologize.
22:43You guys have an amazing studio and we took a,
22:48well, you have a studio.
22:50Let's put, let's step one.
22:51You have a studio and you're doing work
22:53and you haven't quit.
22:55Most podcasters, they have a great idea.
22:57We want to start creating marketing.
22:58We want to start doing media.
23:00We're going to tell stories.
23:02They realize how much work it takes to produce one episode,
23:05let alone 10 episodes.
23:07You know, when we think everyone who sees this,
23:09you think, oh, everyone has a podcast.
23:11There's only 3 million podcasts,
23:138 billion people on earth, 3 million podcast.
23:15Of those 3.
23:16Of those 3 million podcasts,
23:1890% of them will not publish 10 episodes.
23:21They'll quit.
23:21So sad.
23:22It is sad, but I love persistent people.
23:25Hey, don't give up podcasters.
23:26I love persistent people.
23:28And I want to talk to you about, specifically about the show.
23:32What have you learned about,
23:34what did you think before you started it?
23:36And what do you know now about,
23:37I mean, you have the CEO of Shake Shack coming in today
23:40to record on your show, which is absolutely awesome.
23:44I mean, how cool is that?
23:45Can we get some B-roll?
23:46Yeah, absolutely.
23:47We're going to get some B-roll.
23:49We're here, we're eating Shake Shack.
23:51It's my first Shake Shack experience.
23:53You've never had the Shack?
23:54I've never had the Shack.
23:55Yeah, in San Diego.
23:56They have one.
23:56They opened one in Brooklyn.
23:57Never went there?
23:59I got to tell you, we were talking about it yesterday.
24:00I think in that echelon of burger.
24:03Have you ever been deposed?
24:05What is that?
24:06Have you ever been to a deposition?
24:07I know Sean's going with this.
24:10It's okay.
24:10Answer the question.
24:11Yes, yes.
24:12I've been to a deposition.
24:13Answer the question.
24:14Yeah, I've been to a deposition.
24:15Is that right?
24:16Did your attorney hate you?
24:17What time is it?
24:18I don't think anyone has.
24:19Let me tell you, what is time?
24:20Why would my attorney be in there with anyone else?
24:22What is time?
24:23Of course my attorney hates me.
24:24Only answer the question.
24:26Oh, did I go off topic?
24:27Do you forget what I asked you?
24:28What'd you ask me?
24:30About the podcast.
24:31What have you learned?
24:32What was your misconception when you started the show
24:34versus what you know now?
24:36How long have you been doing it?
24:38When did you start?
24:39We started, I'll tell you exactly.
24:40We started right when COVID hit and everything got shut down.
24:43We were about to do our podcast on, let's say a Tuesday,
24:46and we had a whole show planned,
24:48and it was so not on point.
24:53We had to pivot to online ordering, right?
24:56And it was like literally during the shut,
24:57literally when all the restaurants shut down,
24:59that was our first episode.
25:00I think we started,
25:01we did it with the National Restaurant Association.
25:03Didn't we, or no?
25:04That was not, it was.
25:06I think our first podcast
25:07was one of our portfolio companies.
25:09It was, it was Sterling?
25:10Yeah, I think we've done up and over.
25:11We've done up and over 300 episodes now.
25:14I think approaching 350,
25:15and we've been doing it about four years now.
25:17Yeah, that's what I think.
25:18So going back to show, what did we learn?
25:21Oh, I'll tell you.
25:22We're going back.
25:24It's almost a full-time job.
25:26It's real work.
25:27It's like, you have to have real people doing real work.
25:30Real work.
25:31If you want a good product,
25:32you really have to have good people doing good work.
25:34And our team and Julie, who are our partner and producer,
25:38I mean, that's a lot of the heavy lifting,
25:40but it's one thing for a couple of people just to talk,
25:44and then it's another thing to really come up
25:45with a quality product and then video game along.
25:48Like we were videoing everything in the beginning,
25:51but it wasn't going anywhere
25:52because there really wasn't a lot of video platforms,
25:55Spotify and obviously YouTube.
25:56So now it's full video.
25:57So now it's like, you got to take your show
26:00and you got to make it video quality.
26:02So it's a lot of work,
26:03but I think we're having a really good time.
26:05But I think that's the one takeaway is,
26:08it's a lot goes into it, you know?
26:10Cultivating community back to It Takes a Village.
26:14You guys have one of the most popular newsletters
26:17in the entire industry.
26:18I think it's the world, Sean, actually.
26:21Global Hospitality.
26:22That just came through.
26:23Hospitality headline.
26:25It comes out every Saturday.
26:28Both of you write.
26:29That would be a misconception.
26:32What's the percentage?
26:33Who's the writer?
26:34Jimmy is definitely the writer,
26:35and then we have contributing writers.
26:37So you don't write?
26:38I don't read.
26:39You use voice?
26:40I don't read, I don't write, I eat, I drink, and I talk.
26:46So if I could talk on the newsletter,
26:48we turn it into a talking newsletter.
26:50You'd be very good at that.
26:52But no, I don't write.
26:53So you write?
26:54Yes. Jimmy writes.
26:55Every week? Every week.
26:56It's phenomenal.
26:57Share how it started and share how it grew.
27:02It started as a team email on a Saturday morning.
27:05I would get up early on Saturday.
27:06I'm an early morning person,
27:08and I would write a note to our small team
27:10and kind of the things we accomplished, things we're doing.
27:13And it was kind of a mind-
27:14Motivational, very beautiful.
27:15Little mind dump from myself to our team.
27:18And then as our team sort of growing
27:20and not necessarily FTEs or full-time employees,
27:23advisors and people contributing
27:25and maybe some key clients,
27:27through the power of the forward button,
27:28the distribution list started to expand.
27:31So as more people came on,
27:32I admit I started to change my writing style a little bit.
27:34And then it really started to grow from five people
27:40to a hundred people to 5,000 people.
27:42I know I made a big leap.
27:43And all of a sudden we needed a different platform
27:45to send that many emails.
27:46And now we're at up and over 70,000 people.
27:50I'm very proud of the open rate.
27:51I will say the routine.
27:52So it started as an email.
27:54It migrated to what is now a newsletter.
27:57Every Thursday night, when my daughter goes to bed,
28:00my wife goes to bed, they now know I go to my desk
28:02and Thursday night is writing night.
28:04So Thursday night.
28:04Thursday night is writing night.
28:05Did you know that?
28:07For the longest time,
28:08Jimmy's email was written Friday night, late.
28:13And then the team, you know, who actually had a life,
28:16they weren't like Jimmy,
28:17just on Friday night sitting there by themselves.
28:19When I couldn't run the,
28:20when I couldn't just go out and hang out
28:22and enjoy their life.
28:23So I had to move to Thursday night writing.
28:24Cause I used to distribute it.
28:25I used to write it and then send it.
28:27I will tell one quick story in me.
28:31You don't really go or not synonymous.
28:33But when I, my freshman year in college,
28:35first semester, I got a very poor mark
28:37in my creative writing class.
28:39And my professor said, you write like you speak.
28:42And she, I think was right.
28:44She was correct.
28:45And I didn't get a very good mark.
28:47Fast forward, you know, 30 some odd, almost 40 years later,
28:50what people tell me, and I appreciate this as they say,
28:52oh, you write like you speak.
28:53So, hey, same person, different audience.
28:56So what made for a less than very good mark
28:58in a freshman year creative writing class
29:00seems to resonate that people say,
29:02you write like you speak and they enjoy that.
29:04I will say there's typos.
29:06There's, there it's, it's, there's no,
29:08we don't have editors.
29:09I apologize.
29:10We don't have the time for it,
29:11but we are trying to have some fun,
29:13but also really drop some information
29:16that we hope particularly operators
29:18and others can, can, can, can benefit from.
29:20And I appreciate the engagement.
29:22And as the subscription subscribers growing,
29:25I have to tell you,
29:25Thursday night's getting a little more stressful.
29:27All of a sudden I'm like, who's,
29:29like every now and then I see someone who opens it up
29:31and I'm like, wait a minute,
29:33that person was at the inauguration.
29:34Like, I guess.
29:35Yeah.
29:36The best thing about like when I travel
29:38is that it's your point, a lot of people,
29:40because, you know, I mean, Jimmy and I are partners.
29:42We are on the same village and branded.
29:45So he's pumping out that newsletter.
29:47It takes a lot of people.
29:48Other than what Jimmy writes,
29:49the team works for a lot of the moving parts
29:52to get the, to get it out there.
29:54And so it's on my social media.
29:57Cause again, we're just trying to get messaging out there
30:00and interesting content out there.
30:01So a lot of people do think that I write it
30:04and we go to conferences and events
30:06and it just, we were just down in Orlando
30:08and I was sitting there and some woman comes up to me
30:12and she's like, I love your newsletter.
30:15And I'm like, thank you.
30:16And she goes, this is the question.
30:18Does it, how long does that take you?
30:20I'm like, you know, not very long at all, actually.
30:24Not long at all.
30:25I gotta tell you, less time than you think,
30:28she actually would say.
30:29And then of course I have to be like, I gotta be,
30:31then I do, I do say, I always give you,
30:33but I'm like, honestly, Jimmy writes the book.
30:35Jimmy writes it, you know, I don't even read it.
30:39I mean, sometimes I read, I read a little bit.
30:40I read the beginning.
30:41Try to read a little bit.
30:42I read a little bit.
30:42I appreciate it.
30:43I open it.
30:44You open it.
30:45No, I am, thank you for the kind words.
30:46You don't mention my name, I stop.
30:47If I don't see my partner Shazi in there,
30:49I go, I'm just like, you know what, Jimmy?
30:51So let's, let's talk about partnerships
30:54in the branded portfolio.
30:57Are you top of funnel, Shazi?
30:59I am, yeah, top of the funnel.
31:00And how do you filter?
31:03Well, you know, it comes, we talk about it all the time.
31:05It comes a lot of different ways.
31:06Sometimes it's just cold.
31:08And then a lot of times it's really introductions
31:11from people in our network, whether it be LPs
31:14or people in the industry like yourself may say, wow,
31:17I saw this really cool, whatever.
31:19You guys should take a look at it.
31:20I think we've developed a really great reputation
31:23of early stage investors in this space exclusively.
31:26So I think a lot of people, when they're talking,
31:29they just like, have you spoken to the branded guys?
31:31You gotta speak to the branded guys, you know?
31:33Branded people, branded people.
31:35I meant to say people.
31:36I knew what you meant.
31:37The branded people.
31:39So really, it comes through a lot of different channels,
31:43but we get, I mean, we see, I mean, literally,
31:47it's like a dozen deals a week.
31:50Wow.
31:51And you have to really, you can't spend,
31:53just popping in either, you know, on our website,
31:56we have, you can just submit deals, you know,
31:58opportunities for us to look at
32:00and other investors bring us deals.
32:03It's just, we'll take it from anywhere
32:06because you know something, like Jimmy and I,
32:07we say, look, you hope to see a lot of deals.
32:09You hope to see a lot of great opportunities.
32:11You can't see it all.
32:12So like you say, it takes a village.
32:14For us, the same thing.
32:15Anybody wants to show us anything,
32:17we're happy to look at it and see if it's right for us.
32:20If it's not right for us, we may know
32:23who in our network might be a good opportunity for it
32:26because it's for us, we win together, you know?
32:30So if it's great for operators and it's great technology
32:33for whatever the reason, it's just not right
32:35for our investment thesis, maybe they're too mature.
32:38Whatever it is, we'd love to somehow get involved.
32:41So how many partners, 42, how many?
32:44We're at 50, no, 55.
32:4655.
32:47Portfolio companies.
32:48Portfolio companies.
32:48Of which 43 B2B SaaS.
32:5143.
32:52So let's talk B2B SaaS specifically.
32:55Share a story.
32:56Let's talk about one of the partners,
32:58one of the hats that you were wearing, Ovation,
33:00who Zach Oates has been on this show.
33:02We do content for Zach Oates, Ovation.
33:04We have a Cali barbecue, but let's use Zach Oates
33:07as an example of what are the things that he did right
33:11when you first met him?
33:13Why did you invest in, did you invest in him?
33:14Did you invest in Ovation?
33:16And what can other people that want to be a part
33:19of this portfolio, what can they learn
33:20from a person like Zach Oates?
33:22Yeah, I think Zach and Ovationer is a great example.
33:28The importance of the CEO and the founder
33:31and who he or she deputizes is so important.
33:35When I was working on Wall Street,
33:37and this is back in the 90s,
33:38there was a newsletter printed,
33:40and it said the 21 things to guarantee
33:43your success and happiness.
33:45And I can only tell you number one.
33:47Number one, I only remember one of the 21.
33:50And the number one was marry the right person.
33:53Because that would guarantee either 90%
33:55of your happiness or misery.
33:57And I remember thinking-
33:58It's like 52% of the people don't abide by it.
34:00Right, but I remember thinking,
34:02but my point on that list, my point on my list,
34:04and then to Zach Oates and his team,
34:06if number one was 90%,
34:09why do I need to remember number two through 21?
34:12And I don't.
34:13When I think about our metrics
34:14and looking at early stage companies,
34:17we of course have a series of things
34:19that we're looking at and diving into.
34:20But nothing is more important
34:22than that founder and that CEO,
34:24their passion, their experience.
34:26He cut his teeth in the industry.
34:28He identified a problem as an operator.
34:30At one point, I don't know if we still have it today.
34:32Can I jump in for a second?
34:34Please.
34:35His dad is Bardo's, okay?
34:37His dad won a Super Bowl for the Giants, okay?
34:39Let's call a spade a spade.
34:41Once we heard that, okay,
34:42that his dad was Bardo's Super Bowl MVP All-Pro,
34:48I don't care what he did.
34:49Am I right?
34:50I mean, that's the truth.
34:51I mean, honestly.
34:52Zach, we can edit this out, Zach.
34:54He gave Jimmy, brought the rings for Jimmy to wear.
34:57Jimmy's like, oh my God.
34:59Bling.
35:00I mean, come on.
35:01I will say that I have,
35:03by the way, Chet Shatz did say one thing there
35:05that was true.
35:06Zach has brought the rings.
35:08I have worn the rings.
35:09But that had absolutely nothing to do
35:12with the investment.
35:13It was Zach had experience cutting his teeth
35:17in the industry.
35:18He identified an issue.
35:20We talked to operators,
35:21if they could get that type of feedback,
35:23that type of,
35:23and also at the time,
35:25surveys have become,
35:26and now I'm digging in a little bit to Ovation,
35:29long form surveys,
35:30even medium form surveys were exhausting the guests
35:32and the receipt.
35:34Zach had a far less friction,
35:37more seamless and people liked it.
35:39And we invested when he was super early.
35:42But again, it had to do with that one,
35:44that top of the funnel.
35:45Is this the right person to back?
35:48Did he, in this case,
35:49deputize people around him?
35:51And did we think this was a person?
35:53Because it was an early, early company.
35:55And now I feel Zach and Ovation
35:58have created one of the leading,
35:59if not the leading guest feedback platform
36:03and guest engagement platform,
36:05which to me is one of the still the hottest areas.
36:07And we're not done there,
36:09but that was Ovation.
36:10That was Zach Oates.
36:11That was the top of the funnel.
36:13And that was that number one thing is
36:14we have to get that founder and that CEO
36:16and believe we're going to be the middle
36:18of a large body of water with him or her.
36:20And we win or lose together.
36:22We're going to get to shore together
36:23or we're not going to get to shore together.
36:24I always want to be with a guy
36:26whose dad was an old pro MVP
36:29and has rings on that boat, right?
36:32Because those rings can be very valuable on that boat.
36:34Shotsy, what does digital hospitality mean to you
36:38as the restaurant guy?
36:40You know, I'm going to tell you,
36:41I learned a great word last week
36:44and it was physical.
36:45Ah, there it is.
36:46Look at that.
36:47Yeah, that's Shaquille O'Neal's hat.
36:49Did you get a cue that we're almost done?
36:50Is that why that came on now?
36:52No, but I don't know.
36:52I thought you were timing.
36:54This is the shot.
36:56This is the hat I'm wearing until the end now.
36:57There it is.
36:58This is my fourth quarter hat.
36:59The fourth quarter hat.
37:00The fourth quarter hat.
37:01The closer hat.
37:02Yeah, I learned a word
37:03at the national retail show last week.
37:06Phygical.
37:07Phygital.
37:08Phygital.
37:09Phygital.
37:10Phygital.
37:11And I started bringing that up.
37:12So I feel like it's similar
37:14because I always find that retail
37:17is always far ahead of hospitality.
37:21You know, I'll delineate, you know,
37:23retail covers restaurants and hotels to a degree,
37:27but certainly restaurants.
37:29But I'll differentiate between retail
37:30as kind of like, you know,
37:32stores that you go buy shoes and, you know,
37:34like Target and Walmart and things like that,
37:36and restaurants.
37:38And I think retail, as we kind of know it,
37:40is always way ahead of restaurants
37:44in their technology journey.
37:48So I think, to answer your question,
37:50I think it's kind of a combination
37:52of, you know, restaurants,
37:55to Jimmy's point about ovation,
37:56like it's guest feedback and engagement.
38:00We've been seeing it in retail for years.
38:03I mean, if you bought anything from a Pottery Barn
38:07or a Crate & Barrel,
38:08these kind of retail type operations,
38:10you were getting SMS,
38:12you were getting emails,
38:14you were getting hit like all the time.
38:17They were trying Instagram,
38:18like Instagram,
38:19like a big part was of their retail, of selling.
38:23It was a big part of social media.
38:25So they're so far ahead of us.
38:26So I think we've got a long way to go.
38:28I don't remember what your question was,
38:30but I remember digital was in there.
38:33Can I add something to the question that you just asked?
38:35You remember the question?
38:36I did, I do.
38:38Somebody's listening to me.
38:39I do.
38:40At least one of my two guests is listening.
38:41I saw you ask something.
38:43I do.
38:44I just thought phygical was such a cool word.
38:45There are graveyards full of headstones
38:50of people that said what I'm about to say.
38:52It's different this time.
38:53And I say that knowing that by taunting fate,
38:57it's different, this is different, it's different.
38:59But the truth is, at least as I see it,
39:01the hospitality industry is different.
39:04And when we talk about digital,
39:06there is this sense that the guests can tolerate,
39:09the customer, the client, the patient,
39:11they can tolerate a lot of digitalization
39:13in other industries
39:15because it's not as personal to them.
39:17When you start moving into restaurants
39:20and food and beverage,
39:21whether it's because you're consuming it
39:23or we as hospitality folks have always said,
39:25let's be an extension of your home,
39:27your welcome home, welcome to our restaurant.
39:30Let's feed you.
39:32You can eat, you can feed yourself,
39:33but you're choosing to go to that venue.
39:34That personal connection,
39:36I think folks that haven't worked in this industry
39:38might be underestimating how powerful that is.
39:41And that creates a concern among the guests
39:44that digital is going to lose personal.
39:47And I think what we need to do and what we are doing,
39:49and again, Ovation's an example, as are others,
39:51is how we can personalize this
39:53to make a better experience for the guests,
39:56thanks to the data, thanks to digital,
39:58thanks to how we communicate with our guests,
40:00not just when they're in our four walls.
40:02You went to a restaurant, you enjoyed the special,
40:04they know that, that special's back on the menu
40:07and they send you a note,
40:07Sean, hey, you love the short ribs, it's back on the menu.
40:11And even if you don't go, you feel seen and heard.
40:14So again, I think the personalization
40:17of this industry is so different
40:18that guests are scared of,
40:20you're going to make it impersonal by digitizing it.
40:23And our job is to find that balance.
40:25That's what I was alluding to was retail
40:28has always kind of understood what you were buying,
40:31what you liked, had your, I mean, you know,
40:33Target and Walmart, been crushing it for years,
40:36in particular Walmart, knew everything about you.
40:39Restaurants, we lag.
40:41And I don't think it's about losing hospitality,
40:43your point, I think it's about making it better.
40:44Not creepy, not weird, just more engaging
40:48that people that like meat get information
40:51about great specials, about short ribs and steaks.
40:54If I'm a vegetarian, great ideas about that.
40:56Just really, but instead of sending out like,
40:59I think our restaurants have 170,000 emails combined
41:02in our database, like just sending out 170,000 emails
41:07to everyone, no matter where you live,
41:08what you eat, where you dine,
41:10about, you know, a pasta special or a wine, something.
41:14It's not that effective.
41:15For your restaurants, what are you using?
41:16Are you using Toast to send those emails?
41:18We do, we do, we use Toast.
41:21It's amazing.
41:22Which part?
41:23Using Toast.
41:24The 170,000 emails.
41:25Oh, we're really old, we collected them for years.
41:27Yeah.
41:28It's a lot of emails.
41:29I think there are certain human desires.
41:30We want to be seen, we want to be heard.
41:33We want to be part of something.
41:34And that I feel restaurants now
41:36can use these digital tools to do that
41:39in a way that is actually welcomed
41:42and make you feel seen, heard, and belonging.
41:44Is there a worse experience of nobody told me?
41:48I would have been there if someone just told me.
41:50Yeah.
41:50I come here and I spend my money all the time,
41:52but no one told me.
41:53Yeah, I mean, like we've got Restaurant Week
41:55going on right now, and you want to make sure
41:57that as many people as we can reach in New York
42:01or in the surrounding areas know
42:03that it's Restaurant Week this week and next week,
42:06which is huge for us.
42:07I'll go further than no one told me.
42:10I think about, and this is, we're getting better.
42:12It's butts in seats is, of course,
42:15what restaurateurs want, particularly in off-peak hours.
42:19Helping a restaurant get crowded on a Saturday night.
42:22If they're not crowded on a Saturday night,
42:23if they're-
42:24Stuff's flooding.
42:25Then they're probably doing something wrong.
42:26But the idea of discounting,
42:30the idea of Groupon-ing, Kmart shoppers,
42:33I don't mean to pick on Kmart or Groupon,
42:35but the idea that you, Sean, my loyal guests,
42:37are sitting in my restaurant
42:39and the person that found that coupon
42:41is getting a better deal than you,
42:43that is insane to me.
42:45And that's why I think one of the biggest shifts,
42:47using the data and loyalty.
42:49Restaurateurs love rewarding loyalty.
42:52But discounting, they're going to go to the next restaurant,
42:55they'll go to the next discount.
42:56So that, to me, is one of the great awarenesses,
42:59I think, in this transformation, the digital transformation,
43:02is we can reward loyalty and have our guests
43:06feel that they're being seen, heard, belonging
43:09without the idea of somehow you're at the restaurant,
43:11you're an A player with us,
43:12you come, and yet you're getting treated less than
43:14the person who showed up one time
43:16and probably won't come back.
43:17I think we're getting better at that.
43:18I think when we talk about retail
43:19and that retail's ahead of restaurants,
43:22it doesn't always mean they're ahead better
43:24because the idea of discounting, really, it's a retail,
43:28something from retail that restaurants embrace from retail.
43:32I mean, the Labor Day sale and all these different sales.
43:35And I mean, it got to a point where sometimes
43:37you wouldn't buy clothes, or maybe to this day,
43:39you don't buy a new pair of sneakers or clothes or anything
43:42because you know what?
43:43You know what?
43:44It's going to be a big sale next week.
43:45It's going to be a big sale next week.
43:46Correct, yeah.
43:47It's going to be a big sale next week.
43:48The mattress company, 70% off.
43:49Yeah.
43:50How are we in business?
43:51I don't know.
43:52I don't know.
43:52It's like, it's 50% off, and if you buy it right now,
43:54we'll give you another 20 plus 30.
43:56We're giving you 20 bucks.
43:58But that's a trick that we learned from retail
44:00and it's not a good one, to Jimmy's point,
44:01because you really want to reward loyalty.
44:03People that eat in my restaurant all the time
44:05or order in from me all the time,
44:07and someone who's just coupon shopping,
44:09why am I rewarding that person?
44:11You know, anyway.
44:12So before we wrap up, I want to know, 2025, you guys go-
44:16We got more time.
44:17We have, I have an hour free.
44:19Do you?
44:20Yeah, we can still go.
44:21Okay, well we're just getting started then.
44:21Yeah, exactly.
44:22Well, I'll get to the deposition question.
44:23This is the second hour.
44:25This is the warm up,
44:25so I can actually start asking the legitimate questions.
44:27I'm going to leave you guys for the second hour.
44:29The second hour.
44:30The second hour.
44:31Good morning, Tally Barbecue.
44:32Before I get to this, I'll have a two part question.
44:36Number one, how do we do industry events better?
44:39And I'm talking trade shows, conferences.
44:41Where have we gone wrong, and what do we need to do better?
44:44I don't think we can speak about that right now,
44:48because a lot of people listen to this.
44:49I know.
44:50You know, so-
44:51But this is, I mean, if we're not-
44:52Real talk.
44:53It's got to be real talk.
44:53If we're not transparent with the industry,
44:55I mean, we all get asked, we all go,
44:57and we all speak on stages.
44:59If we don't share with organizers that we partner with,
45:01please.
45:02I'll take a shot at this right now,
45:03and maybe, I don't know if it's controversial.
45:04I don't think it is.
45:05It doesn't matter.
45:07Real talk.
45:08Okay, okay, I think I have heard,
45:12I have heard for a while,
45:13I've heard more, let's say, constructive criticism,
45:17or otherwise, about the conferences,
45:20let's say, this past 12 plus 18 months.
45:24And yet, the attendance at these events
45:26is also at a high watermark.
45:28So you have, on the one hand,
45:30people complaining about, let's say,
45:32could we make them better?
45:34And the answer is, of course we can.
45:35On the other hand, people are showing up.
45:37So what's the incentive to an organizer to say,
45:40you want me to take risks?
45:41You want me to change my model?
45:42You want me?
45:43And at the end of the day,
45:44the conference organizers who are doing great deeds,
45:47great work, and bringing the industry together,
45:49especially at a time where Zoom and other video calls
45:52have replaced meetings.
45:54We want to get together,
45:55and how good is it that we can get to an event
45:57and really be in person?
45:58So the event has tremendous value.
46:00I personally think the model that is often being used,
46:04I believe, is antiquated.
46:05I understand that the events need to have a model
46:10that works for them to help take the risk
46:12and host the event.
46:13And I'm trying to figure out ways to make it better.
46:15And part of it is,
46:16and I think groups like Informa and IFMA
46:19and our friends at Prosper,
46:21I think they're doing,
46:22but they're doing, look, they're doing it again.
46:24It's a real show.
46:25We don't edit it.
46:26We don't edit, no.
46:27No, they're trying to bring new voices.
46:29They're trying to be aware that there's other angles.
46:32They've tried to take some of the emerging
46:33and youthful companies off the loading docks
46:36and bring them a little more center stage.
46:38So they're trying, but it's not going to happen overnight.
46:41I think we have to keep having these conversations.
46:43I think more content that's real,
46:45and sometimes given the pay-to-play model,
46:48you get often similar speakers getting up there,
46:51and you almost know what they're going to say,
46:54and it's not real.
46:55They're not getting in the weeds.
46:56They want to give enough,
46:57but they don't want to give real stuff.
46:58How do we make it more real talk
46:59so that the sessions are interesting?
47:03And then don't jam so many sessions
47:05because one of the reasons we go to the events
47:07is to network.
47:08So if you jam sessions from eight to eight,
47:10and I know that's an exaggeration,
47:12then by definition, you have to skip sessions.
47:14So I would like to see fewer sessions,
47:17intentional time to collaborate and get together,
47:20maybe working groups or otherwise.
47:22And then the question is,
47:23how do these event organizers, conference organizers,
47:28run the model that works for them
47:30despite the fact that if you take out speakers,
47:32you remove sessions,
47:33you're probably removing some sponsors.
47:35So we have to find the right balance,
47:36but no negativity towards organizers.
47:39We go to the events, they're doing great work,
47:41but I think fewer sessions that are,
47:43and more curated and hopefully fewer,
47:46and I dare say new voices, new topics.
47:48That's what I would say.
47:49And I would say for more portfolio,
47:51and Jimmy, thank you.
47:51That was-
47:52That was really good.
47:53That was honest.
47:54That was honest.
47:55Honest, real.
47:56Because you are.
47:56It takes a village.
47:58Make it fun of me.
47:59It's no, absolutely not, man.
48:00Definitely not.
48:01Not to your face.
48:02That's good.
48:03Thanks.
48:04I think the one thing that always comes back to us,
48:07especially we've got all these portfolio companies
48:10that are generally going to all these conferences.
48:12So they're asking us, like,
48:13Shads, where should we go this year?
48:16Where should we invest?
48:16Which one should we go right?
48:17Invest our time, invest our money,
48:19invest our people.
48:20Which one?
48:20Last year we went to this one,
48:21what do you think?
48:22Are we going to get enough leads?
48:23Is there going to be an ROI from this event?
48:24Does it make sense?
48:25And then, you know, what comes to play,
48:27to your point, it's, yeah, you want to get the ROI,
48:30but then it's like, what's the cost
48:31and how many people are going to meet?
48:32And then, you know, is there a marketplace,
48:34a place where you have to show your,
48:37have a booth, we'll call it a booth, right?
48:39And then when they start talking about the booth,
48:41well, if I bring a booth,
48:42I got to have, you know, four people,
48:44because two people got to be at the booth all times,
48:46and someone's got to go to the bathroom,
48:48and someone has to take meetings.
48:49And then you got to ship the booth.
48:51And I got to set up the booth.
48:52And you start adding this all up,
48:55and you're like, this is really, really expensive for me.
48:58And then you go to Jimmy's point,
48:59and it's like, a lot of people just want to make meetings
49:03and have breakfast meetings and have lunch meetings
49:06and have some cocktail meetings
49:07and have dinner meetings and network.
49:09And, you know, so I think that's an area
49:12where the sponsors, the industry event organizers
49:18make a lot of money from that.
49:19But I think that's where I hear there's a lot of friction.
49:22I'm not just talking about the early stage companies
49:25that we invest in, which becomes very expensive,
49:27but we help with our friends at Informa
49:30curate the innovation out right there.
49:34And one of the reasons was to help smaller companies
49:37be able to afford, and it was very affordable.
49:39And a lot more event organizers are doing that.
49:41I think Jimmy said something like that.
49:44But even the big companies, the big guys are like,
49:47do I have to go to 15 shows to show my point of sale,
49:51to show my screen?
49:53Like, don't you know what my kiosk looks like
49:56at this point?
49:56It's a kiosk.
49:57I have to, you know, so there are some challenges.
50:00Yeah, I would say to Jimmy's point,
50:02the biggest feedback I would say is,
50:05let's give people that are invited to speak
50:08the microphone and the stage.
50:10TEDx, those talks are 18 minutes.
50:12That's all someone needs.
50:14One topic, let them speak.
50:16You know, less panels.
50:17As much as I understand the idea for different voices,
50:20but like panel, there's too many panels.
50:23I would rather be sponsoring on events
50:25and have great speakers, and I don't need to be.
50:30I'd rather be associated with a great talk
50:33and somebody who, when people left that room,
50:36they felt they learned something and were engaged.
50:39And that to me is, I think,
50:40and then how do you run that model in an effective way?
50:42But I think you're right.
50:43Less panels, respectfully, and more real talk.
50:47That was a great question.
50:48Real insights.
50:48It was a great question.
50:50I think Sean's done this a couple times.
50:52He's knocked out of the park on that one.
50:53There's a good one.
50:54We want to have open,
50:55how are we going to move the industry forward?
50:57Not unless we have open, honest discussion.
50:59Real talk.
51:00That's right.
51:01Real talk.
51:01Like coffee talk with Sean.
51:02Real talk.
51:03Coffee talk with Sean.
51:04Real talk with Sean.
51:05So,
51:06This is coffee talk.
51:07If you guys are listening to this,
51:08every Wednesday, every Friday,
51:10we do a live show on LinkedIn, on YouTube, on Facebook.
51:14It's called Rising Tides Live.
51:15It's a chance for you to come on the show.
51:17If you own restaurants,
51:18if you're a content creator,
51:19if you're in sales, marketing, tech,
51:21we want to hear from you.
51:22It's a live show.
51:24Please join us.
51:25You can go to betheshow.media slash risingtides.
51:28Gentlemen, where's the best digital playground?
51:31We're going to put links, obviously,
51:32for you to join the newsletter,
51:33for you to listen, subscribe to the podcast.
51:35But personally, where's the best place
51:37for people to connect with you?
51:38LinkedIn?
51:39Jimmy's over there on the East 76th, if I'm not mistaken.
51:43Right?
51:44We'll put his address and social.
51:46I think Sean was giving you an easy path.
51:52LinkedIn is a good spot.
51:53LinkedIn?
51:54And then our website, you know,
51:55Brandon's-
51:56Why can't you host people at your apartment?
51:57Brandonstrategic.com's a great place.
51:59It takes a village.
52:00It takes a village, that's right.
52:01So before we go, I have one question for Shatsy.
52:05Who opens their mouth in more photos, you or Rev?
52:08I would have to say, based on feedback from,
52:12and this is going to my mother,
52:14and may she rest in peace,
52:16but my mom said that I am just a horrific,
52:20horrific person to photograph.
52:23All I do is make a funny face.
52:24Have you been doing that since you were a child?
52:25Forever.
52:26And she's just like, why do you do that?
52:28Do you have brothers and sisters?
52:29Yeah, but when you're not-
52:30You're the youngest?
52:31When you're not an attractive person,
52:31you do anything you can to-
52:33Who told you you weren't attractive?
52:34Enough people, okay?
52:36You look in the mirror, you're like,
52:37hey, listen, you're no good looking, you're no not good.
52:39You're a very handsome man, Michael.
52:40Very handsome man.
52:42Very handsome man.
52:43But you know, so you make a funny face
52:44because then, you know what?
52:46People are like, hey, he's funny looking.
52:49And then you yell, right?
52:50So you're good.
52:51I think Shatsy, to your question,
52:53opens his mouth more than Rev,
52:54but no one does the pointing.
52:59No one does the video point more and better than Rev.
53:02In fact, it's catching on.
53:04And every time I see a video with the pointing,
53:06and then I even see, they're recognizing,
53:08shout out to Rev.
53:09So when other people start making the Shatsy face,
53:12that'd be a nice shout out to you.
53:13But right now-
53:14Rev would ever make that face.
53:14Rev's getting a lot of pointing,
53:16and Shatsy makes the fun face.
53:19I don't encourage any kids out there
53:22listening to this to make that face.
53:24So this is the epicenter.
53:26When people come to New York City,
53:27how do they find out more about Branded Hospitality?
53:30I mean, you guys, this is B-Works.
53:31I know Toast is here actually right now,
53:33which is awesome.
53:34We have Toast sales reps working here.
53:35We have Craveworthy Brands.
53:37Craveworthy's here.
53:38Greg Majewski, Room for Seconds,
53:40one of the best podcasts out there.
53:41Please subscribe to Room for Seconds.
53:43Very handsome.
53:44Very handsome.
53:45He's had both of you gentlemen on.
53:46Both were really good episodes.
53:48Your second episode was even better than your first.
53:50Yes, so good we had to do it twice.
53:52Big Chickens here with us,
53:53Restaurant 365's here with us.
53:57You think about their design buildings,
53:59there's medical buildings.
54:00Where is the Hospitality Innovation building?
54:02And we're not getting ahead of ourselves for a building,
54:06but we took an office that was larger
54:08than, let's say, our Branded headquarters needed.
54:11But the idea was to create an innovation hub.
54:14And when people come to New York,
54:15if you're in the industry, give a shout.
54:17We'd love to see you.
54:18We love the chance encounters that come up
54:21when people are walking by each other.
54:23What happens when Toast and our folks at Brizzo were here
54:26and they connected.
54:27So it's a lot of fun to have people here at B-Works.
54:30And we're gonna keep using this space and keep growing it
54:33as long as people wanna keep being part
54:34of our little innovation hub and hospitality community.
54:37Well, I absolutely love it.
54:38Right when I walked in,
54:39I knew that I was supposed to be here today
54:42and recording this episode with you guys,
54:43like all the logos on the wall.
54:44We had a plan for weeks.
54:46Actually for four years, since the IPO.
54:49Since the IPO, we've had, I've been on the calendar.
54:51I mean, I've been waiting for this day.
54:53I've been on the calendar.
54:5510 p.m. last night,
54:56we're changing schedules to accommodate.
54:58So if you guys planned this four years ago,
55:00someone forgot to add it to my calendar.
55:01You didn't get the calendar?
55:02Someone forgot to add it to my calendar.
55:03You didn't get the calendar invite.
55:05Me and Chatsy knew the whole time this was going down.
55:08All right.
55:08It was just beautiful.
55:09I'm happy to accommodate B-Works.
55:10And again, if you really want to connect with us,
55:12we're all over in Gramercy Park.
55:14Jimmy, again, is up on 76th Street.
55:17He loves the dropping.
55:19Perfect.
55:20He loves the dropping here in his office, by the way.
55:21So if you ever come to B-Works,
55:23Jimmy doesn't like, you don't make meetings.
55:25Don't make meetings.
55:26Calendar invites, bad.
55:27Bad idea.
55:28Texting.
55:29Don't call.
55:30Just pop in.
55:31Just come.
55:32Jimmy's door is always open.
55:34That's Jimmy's bottom.
55:35If the building's on fire.
55:36Yes.
55:37You heard it here.
55:38Jimmy's door is always open.
55:39Yeah, yeah.
55:40You know what?
55:41It takes a village, and he really,
55:42he wants to reach out.
55:44Think you're making fun of me a little bit.
55:45Little bit.
55:46Little bit.
55:47Little bit.
55:48Jimmy's door is always closed.
55:48Little bit.
55:49It's a sign.
55:50It's a sign.
55:51It's like, beware of dog.
55:52Do not come in.
55:53I get to talk to Jimmy, I think,
55:55it's like I have to make a meeting at like 5.30.
55:57Yeah.
55:58You know, before he's leaving.
55:59Good.
55:59That's the only time I get to talk to him.
56:00Makes sense.
56:01Yeah, he's very, I mean, that you got him to be here is-
56:04I'm always available.
56:04Very scheduled.
56:05I'm always available.
56:06I appreciate it.
56:07I'm like Mr. Cone.
56:08I'm always here.
56:09That's a cone?
56:10All right.
56:11If you guys want to reach out to me,
56:13I'm weirdly available at Sean P. Welcheff,
56:15all the platforms.
56:17We appreciate you for listening to the show.
56:18Please check out the Hospitality Headline,
56:21the Hospitality podcast, Hospitality Hangouts podcast.
56:25Yeah, and don't, this episode, don't hold it against Sean.
56:29The guy does great work.
56:30This is-
56:31We do our best.
56:32Yeah, this is, he usually has-
56:33And we'll do a little bit better.
56:33We'll do a little bit better next time.
56:35Incredible guests with incredible content, you know.
56:38I appreciate what you do and your whole team, Sean, really.
56:40You're a good person.
56:41And again, lifting all boats.
56:44We like your energy.
56:45This is the first time I've met Sean in person, by the way.
56:47You met Sean in-
56:48We met.
56:49We met.
56:50Look at this.
56:51How is that possible?
56:52We met at MurTech.
56:53I was interviewing Stratus Morphos,
56:56and you both walked in.
56:57We were in the same room.
56:58We said hello.
56:59Yes, I meet you.
57:00We said, game respects game.
57:01We were the only podcasters at MurTech in like 2021.
57:04Yes, are you sure?
57:05Yes.
57:06Positive.
57:06I'm certain.
57:08I'm so memorable.
57:10Absolutely.
57:10I don't remember meeting.
57:11You both were there.
57:12Yes.
57:13I'm agreeing with you, Sean.
57:14We met.
57:15Yeah, in that room.
57:15Like they put us off in some weird ballroom.
57:17But big respect for what you're doing.
57:20The last time I saw him, he, you lost weight?
57:22Things have changed.
57:23Things have changed.
57:24I put on some pounds.
57:26You really look good.
57:26Ozempic is, it's amazing.
57:29Is it?
57:30Just a month.
57:31Isn't it?
57:32Are they sponsored your show yet?
57:33We should get them.
57:34You know, my big thing is Ozempic is the single,
57:37the single biggest killer of restaurants.
57:41It could be.
57:42It is?
57:43But if everyone just eats Ozempic all day long,
57:45who's going to eat food?
57:46Ah.
57:47I mean, you go to restaurants
57:47and like four people are splitting a Caesar salad
57:49because they got the Ozempic.
57:51Got it.
57:52You know, so we got to.
57:52Have you picked up on any vibe
57:53that Sean's trying to wrap up this episode?
57:55Oh, no.
57:56Have you picked up any?
57:57No, we're not wrapping up.
57:58Have you picked up any of this?
57:58I thought we had another hour.
57:59No, we're trying to fill space.
58:00No.
58:01Seems like I got 45 minutes to fill.
58:03No, no.
58:04Before Rob Lynch gets here.
58:05No, no.
58:07Rob Lynch is coming.
58:08Yes.
58:08Yeah.
58:09So we're going to just rush right in.
58:12All right.
58:13Well, listen, I met you at MurTech
58:14and it was awesome.
58:15It was awesome.
58:16It's even better now though.
58:16It is better now.
58:17And I'm excited to hang out.
58:19Congratulations.
58:20You did an entire show without your soundboard.
58:23When was that?
58:24Today.
58:25Right now.
58:26Right now.
58:27Like you literally just,
58:28this is your first show where you didn't have
58:28controls and buttons.
58:29I feel like I needed something.
58:31When you have an audience of 400, 500 people,
58:33you don't need this.
58:34You know, you have a live audience.
58:36Live theater at Madison Square Garden.
58:38That's right.
58:39That's happening.
58:39That's happening.
58:40It'll be fun.
58:41Let's do that.
58:42Yeah, we heard it here first.
58:43We appreciate you guys.
58:44As always, stay curious, get involved,
58:46and don't be afraid to ask for help.
58:47Catch you next episode.
58:50Thank you for listening to Restaurant Influencers.
58:53If you want to get in touch with me,
58:54I am weirdly available at Sean P. Waltschaff,
58:57S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
59:02Cali Barbecue Media has other shows.
59:05You can check out Digital Hospitality.
59:07We've been doing that show since 2017.
59:09We also just launched a show,
59:11season two, Family Style, on YouTube with Toast.
59:15And if you are a restaurant brand or a hospitality brand
59:18and you're looking to launch your own show,
59:20Cali Barbecue Media can help you.
59:22Recently, we just launched Room for Seconds
59:26with Greg Majewski.
59:27It is an incredible insight into leadership,
59:31into hospitality, into enterprise restaurants
59:35and franchise, franchisee relationships.
59:37Take a look at Room for Seconds.
59:39And if you're ready to start a show, reach out to us.
59:42Be the show.media.
59:44We can't wait to work with you.