At a House Oversight Committee hearing last week, Democrats and Republicans debated an amendment from Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ).
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00:00Ms. Ansari, you, well, they told me, I'm sorry.
00:07They told you to go.
00:10Who's next?
00:11Yeah.
00:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:13I have an amendment on the table as well.
00:16Would the clerk please distribute and report the Ansari amendment?
00:20Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 1295 as offered by Ms.
00:24Ansari of Arizona.
00:26Without objection, the amendment is considered as read.
00:29I reserve a point of order.
00:31The gentleman from Nevada is recognized for five minutes to explain the amendment.
00:35Arizona.
00:36I said, I'm sorry, Arizona.
00:37I apologize.
00:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:39I was close.
00:41Like millions of Americans, I am deeply concerned about the authoritarian nature of this administration.
00:47It is very clear that Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and the entirety of the President's Cabinet
00:53want to operate without any sort of accountability, without willingness to come here and speak
00:59to the Oversight Committee by attacking journalists, by attacking rightful American citizens.
01:06And they want to do whatever they want without any checks and balances.
01:09And that is exactly what Republicans on this committee are handing them with this bill.
01:15They want to allow want-to-be dictators to completely dismantle the federal government
01:21without review, without consideration of how it affects families who depend on government
01:26programs and without a care in the world.
01:29And the reason they are pushing for this bill is because Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and Doge
01:35have already been found consistently to be acting outside of the law in their mass layoffs
01:41and agency closures by the courts.
01:44They shut down U.S. aid, and the courts ruled that they violated the Constitution because
01:49they need Congressional approval to do so.
01:52Now, instead of defending their own powers, Congressional Republicans are pushing forward
01:56this bill to hand over their powers to the President.
02:00Again, this is further revealing cowardice and weakness and deep fear about a primary
02:06challenge funded by the richest man in the world.
02:08So those are my overall issues with this bill.
02:11Now, speaking to this amendment directly, this is in regard to veterans.
02:16Earlier this month, the Department of Veterans Affairs announced plans to fire more than
02:2080,000 of its employees.
02:23This is a department that we all know is already woefully understaffed.
02:27They desperately need more nurses, more doctors, and more administrators to provide the care
02:33and benefits that Americans need.
02:35More than 9.1 million veterans rely on VA health care.
02:40Over 32,000 veterans are homeless.
02:44Upwards of 17 veterans commit suicide daily.
02:48Two of the VA employees from the regional office in Phoenix are a 20-year Air Force
02:53veteran, and the other is a former Marine.
02:56They were both loan specialists helping struggling veterans from losing their homes and were
03:01each handling 1,500 cases at the time of their termination.
03:06Just two people were managing 3,000 cases.
03:11Now imagine 80,000 workers laid off from the VA.
03:16These are men and women who put their lives on the line for each and every one of us,
03:21and this country has already failed them in many, many ways.
03:25Now Elon Musk wants to decimate the agency that cares for them.
03:30My amendment protects veterans and VA workers from these cruel actions so that the VA can
03:35continue improving the level of care our veterans receive rather than hanging them out to dry.
03:40So I hope my colleagues will vote in support of this amendment, and I will yield back to the ranking member.
03:47I thank my colleague, and I thank her for this initiative.
03:51Nothing is more reckless than gutting the Veterans Administration.
03:58As you point out, millions of veterans and their families rely on VA for health care.
04:05I've visited dialysis clinics run by the VA.
04:09They are essential.
04:11Laying off people who are technicians, who are in admittance, who are providing technical
04:18and nursing and medical services to our veterans is disgusting.
04:25If the United States has any obligation, going back to Lincoln's eloquent call to heal the wounds
04:32of our veterans and their widows and their orphans, it is this.
04:37So I applaud my colleague for taking this initiative and highlighting how serious this is.
04:43Remember, a third of all federal employees are veterans, deliberately.
04:49We wanted to give them a leg up.
04:51As my friend pointed out, the suicide rate is alarming.
04:55We've got to provide mental health services as well as medical services.
04:59So I think this goes a long way to protecting our veterans.
05:02I urge my colleagues to support the amendment, and I yield back to Ms. Ansari.
05:07Ms. Ansari, I yield back.
05:10Thank you so much.
05:13I appreciate the comments of the ranking member.
05:15I could not agree more and, again, really urge colleagues to vote for this to protect veterans
05:20who are Republicans, Democrats, Independents, but deserve all of our support.
05:29I yield back.
05:32I recognize myself.
05:34I don't think President Trump or any Republican has advocated for reducing nurses at the VA
05:42or classroom teachers in the Department of Education.
05:46What they're talking about are bureaucrats, many of whom haven't been to work in years.
05:54Hopefully we can get rid of the bureaucrats and have more money to hire more classroom teachers
05:58and more nurses.
06:00We have to have a reorganization of the government.
06:02It has gotten out of hand over the past four years.
06:08Bureaucracies have grown.
06:10Bureaucrats have increased in number.
06:13And the people taking it on the chin in the federal workforce are the ones who actually do the work
06:19at the bottom of the organizational chart.
06:22This is a reorganization for them.
06:24I just feel like if the Democrats would fight as hard for the working class taxpayers
06:29and the frontline federal employees as they fight for unnecessary bureaucrats,
06:34then we could accomplish a lot, this Congress.
06:37So I oppose this amendment.
06:38Do any other members seek recognition?
06:40Mr. Chairman.
06:41Mr. Chairman.
06:42All right.
06:44You've already.
06:45I just have a question for you.
06:47Sure.
06:48I'm new here.
06:50This is my first term, but one of the first, you know, in my second month on Valentine's Day,
06:54I was at the VA in Arizona for Valentine's for Vets.
06:58It was the night before that the administration fired, I believe, a thousand employees from the VA,
07:05again, a woefully understaffed agency.
07:07So I just, I guess, do you agree that that occurred,
07:09and do you believe that that is waste, fraud, and abuse,
07:12taking from an already understaffed agency that supports our veterans?
07:15I don't know about that particular instance you're talking about.
07:18I would recommend you look into it because it happened, again,
07:21completely aligned with the day we're all supposed to go and visit our veterans and support them.
07:26Chair recognizes Mr. Higgins.
07:28Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
07:29Mr. Chairman, I'm going to directly address my veteran brothers and sisters across the country.
07:35We're going to fix the VA whether anybody in the bureaucracy machine likes it or not.
07:42I've helped thousands and thousands of veterans across Louisiana,
07:47and every one of them has the same issue.
07:51It's a problem with the bureaucratic machine of the VA, not the nurses and the doctors,
07:59not their fellow veterans.
08:01Their problem is with the waste and the ignorance and the audacity to be arrogant
08:10from the bureaucracies towards our veterans that we serve.
08:14You just sit by and watch, but if you're in our way, we're rolling over you
08:20because we're about to fix the VA, and that means we're going to eliminate waste,
08:26fraud, abuse, and theft within the VA.
08:29We're going to fire people that don't work, don't show up for work, or don't even exist,
08:35and we're going to work together with the executive.
08:37Finally, we have an executive branch that's courageous enough to tackle this thing,
08:44and that executive branch has advocates for the America First agenda
08:51and a veteran first agenda within this Congress, and I'm one of those advocates.
08:57Mr. Chairman, I oppose any amendment that restricts Congress's obligation
09:04and legislative effort through this oversight committee to assist the executive branch
09:10in its focused intent to fix the bureaucracies of our country
09:19by eliminating waste, fraud, abuse, and theft.
09:25I oppose this amendment, Mr. Chairman.
09:28I yield to my colleague, Mr. Biggs, from Arizona.
09:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:33I also oppose this amendment, and I want to give you an example
09:36of how the bureaucracy has prevented good health care practices for our veterans.
09:44TBI, traumatic brain injury, PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder,
09:50one of the very best ways to deal, combat, and help heal is hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
09:59I have been trying since I got here, but the bureaucracy has consistently stood in the way.
10:08We need to provide that type of treatment, and when the bureaucrats say,
10:13oh, well, you know, there's no studies that show this, they're wrong.
10:19The IDF, almost everybody comes out getting HBOT, and it helps them.
10:26The studies are crystal and clear.
10:29What's preventing us from providing that type of medical care is the bureaucracy.
10:35It's the bureaucracy that says no, and they would rather give PTSD or TBI patients
10:43a surfeit of opiates, get them addicted.
10:50What they need is HBOT therapy.
10:56Who in the hell are you?
10:57Be quiet.
10:58I have the floor.
11:02Order.
11:03We do not allow comments from the crowd.
11:07It is true.
11:08The studies are clear.
11:10The studies have been over and over again.
11:15TBI, PTSD is helped by HBOT.
11:20Ma'am, you will be asked to be removed with one more outburst.
11:24Under the rules of the House, the chairman responsible for maintaining order
11:27and preserving decorum in the committee room,
11:29I expect audience members to be respectful of the witnesses and the public.
11:33Mr. Biggs, please proceed.
11:35Thank you, Your Honor.
11:36It is true.
11:37There are study after study that show it and demonstrate it.
11:40You can shake your head until the rocks fall out, but the reality is it is true.
11:44That's the studies.
11:45I yield back to the gentleman from Louisiana.
11:47The gentleman yields back to me, Mr. Chairman.
11:51Let me say that we admire the young lady's passion.
11:56The bottom line is that bureaucrats are in the way of actual VA service to actual veterans,
12:03and whatever the manifestation of that interference may be,
12:12we're certainly subject to legitimate debate,
12:15but we're going to oppose bureaucrats standing in the way of actual service to our veterans.
12:21I yield, Mr. Chairman.
12:23The gentleman's time has expired.
12:24Mr. Chairman.
12:25Chair recognizes the Ranking Member.
12:27I thank you.
12:28You know, that would be great.
12:31I don't know how Mr. Biggs and Mr. Higgins have a special code to pick only bureaucrats,
12:38and they're the ones we're going to eliminate because they have decided they're the problem.
12:44That isn't what Elon Musk and Donald Trump have done.
12:47They've gone into the VA and fired thousands.
12:51They don't know whether they're nurses.
12:53You don't know it either, Mr. Higgins.
12:55They don't know if they're technicians.
12:57They don't know if they're specialists in admittance for hospital care or home care.
13:03They don't know.
13:05They didn't take the time.
13:07They didn't take the time to study the architecture of the VA to make sure no harm was being done.
13:14That is what this amendment is designed to try to do,
13:18to protect veterans from having negative consequences because of those actions which were not vetted,
13:26still haven't been vetted, and are definitely going to hurt our veterans.
13:30So it's great to say we're only going after bureaucrats.
13:34There's no evidence that that is true.
13:36And, in fact, I worry deeply it is not only not true, it's the opposite.
13:42I yield back.
13:43I yield to Ms. Stansbury.
13:51Member yields back.
13:52Do any other members seek recognition?
13:54Chair recognizes Ms. Stansbury.
13:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:00Wow.
14:01Okay.
14:02Let's break this down.
14:03I'm going to read the amendment here.
14:06It says essentially here that it would insert the following language,
14:11that basically it would not allow the administration to reduce,
14:16degrade any existing services, benefits, or jobs for veterans provided by an executive department
14:22and is required to fully restore all veteran services, benefits,
14:27or jobs at the executive department that have been reduced, degraded,
14:32or eliminated by the United States DOJ service.
14:37So I'm sorry.
14:41I represent one of the highest proportion of veterans in active duty military in the country,
14:47and I find it deeply offensive that my colleagues would not support a simple amendment,
14:53a simple amendment that would protect our veterans and to claim, to sit here and claim today
15:00that what the administration is doing has not impacted veterans is completely a lie
15:07because I can tell you that three weeks ago,
15:10veterans who work for the VA showed up on Monday after Elon Musk,
15:16not even the VA, issued a mass firing of probationary staff on a Friday afternoon,
15:24and people showed up to their jobs at veterans' hospitals and administration offices across the country
15:31and couldn't even get into their e-mails because they were locked out.
15:35But inside of those e-mails were actual statements saying that they had underperformed
15:41and they were being fired basically without cause.
15:45Now, already the federal court system has found that those firings were illegal.
15:50So you can't sit here today and pretend like the actions of the administration have not impacted our veterans
15:57and the VA system because that is a lie.
16:00That is a bold-faced lie.
16:03Secondly, last week before we went home, the Republicans passed a CR that underfunded the PACT Act.
16:14We passed the PACT Act a couple of years ago to expand health care to the VA system
16:20to 3 million veterans who were impacted by burn pits, Agent Orange,
16:25and other toxins over the course of their service.
16:28This was the largest expansion of VA benefits since World War II,
16:32and you underfunded it in your own continuing resolution.
16:37And I'm sorry, if you were actually holding town halls and actually listening to your constituents,
16:43you would know that our veterans across the country are pissed as hell.
16:48You are not representing the interests of our veterans.
16:54Third, under the auspices of your DEI order, thousands of veterans who have proudly served this country
17:06had their history erased from DOD websites.
17:12Last week, New Mexico's Navajo Code Talkers who helped us win World War II were erased from the DOD website.
17:23Tuskegee Airmen, thousands of instances of people of color, women, LGBT service members
17:32who proudly gave their lives and served this country were erased from the DOD website.
17:40And finally, you want to talk about impacts to veterans?
17:45You know what we should be actually doing oversight over today?
17:49How about the fact that the DOD secretary leaked a Yemeni war plan yesterday
17:58to a non-classified journalist on an unsecured text chain?
18:07Let's do real oversight here.
18:09You want to talk about risks to our veterans?
18:12These are the same people that accidentally fired nuclear scientists and engineers
18:17who literally maintain our stockpile.
18:20These are the same people who leaked classified documents to a journalist.
18:26And this is the same DOD who on Friday almost gave our classified war plans for China to Elon Musk.
18:36So don't sit here and pretend like you're actually protecting our veterans
18:41and you're not even doing your most basic oversight.
18:44I yield back.
18:46Chair recognizes Mr. Biggs for a yes request.
18:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:52I put this, this is an original research published in Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, November 11, 2024,
19:01dedicated to HBOT protocols can improve PTSD symptoms.
19:07Sixty-eight percent of participants showed at least a 30 percent reduction in symptoms
19:11and then upon revision 39 percent.
19:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
19:15Without objection to order, do any other members seek recognition?
19:18Mr. Subra, Marianne.
19:20Thank you, Mr. Chair.
19:21I just want to make clear that many of these so-called bureaucrats are actually veterans.
19:28In fact, many of them served their country well.
19:31Many of them had exemplary work records.
19:33Many of them did a lot of work.
19:35In fact, they wanted nothing more than to serve their fellow veterans.
19:38And the real problem with the system was that they were using antiquated technology.
19:44They were constantly underfunded.
19:46And all these rules were in place to make their job ten times harder.
19:50And many of those people live in my district and I hear from them all the time that all they want to do
19:55is the best that they possibly can for our veterans.
19:57And yet we have failed them.
19:59We in Washington have failed them.
20:01And so they will continue to serve, but many of them are now being fired.
20:05And what's going to happen when you decrease resources again and again and again?
20:09Our veterans will suffer again and again and again.
20:12We are breaking our promise to our veterans.
20:15And all this amendment does is say that let's actually fulfill that promise to our veterans.
20:20And so I support this amendment.
20:22I'm actually going to yield over to Ms. Ansari to continue her remarks.
20:29Thank you, Congressman.
20:30Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask unanimous consent to enter two items into the record.
20:35One is one you said you don't recall, an article from February 13, 2025,
20:42VA dismisses more than 1,000 employees.
20:46Without objection to order.
20:48The second article, this is a crucial job.
20:51Valley veteran working for Phoenix VA unexpectedly loses job in widespread layoff.
20:57So as my colleague said, the people being fired from the VA are largely veterans.
21:03Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
21:05Well, first of all, without objection to order on the UC.
21:09You're not objecting to the UC?
21:10No, not objecting to the UC at all.
21:12And now I recognize you for a point of order.
21:14Yeah, point of order is when you're giving a UC, you don't get to read the article.
21:17That's right.
21:18That is correct.
21:19Just the title.
21:20That's the title of the article.
21:21Right.
21:22You did that.
21:23That is the title of the article.
21:24If I could use the rest of my time.
21:27The callousness that we are seeing from colleagues across the side of the aisle.
21:30Mr. Chairman, point of order.
21:31Point of order.
21:32She's had her minutes to speak.
21:34She's now trying to use her UC to go forward and speak.
21:38Yeah, Mr. Subran yielded her.
21:40Okay.
21:41Then I apologize.
21:42Okay.
21:44But you're correct on how to propose a unanimous consent request.
21:48The title.
21:49Yes.
21:50Otherwise, I would have let you go forward and speak.
21:52Before we got into an argument with Ms. Presley, she was going into detail on a unanimous consent.
21:57Mr. Chairman.
21:58You had time.
21:59I read the article.
22:00Right, right.
22:01That's right.
22:03Everybody's correct here.
22:04Perfect.
22:05Please proceed.
22:06All right.
22:07So, the callousness that we are seeing from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle
22:11in regard to veterans.
22:13You are obsessed with buzzwords that do not recognize that real people are suffering in the midst of it.
22:22When on February 13th, a thousand veterans are fired.
22:27Then on February 24th, VA axes another 1,400 employees.
22:33The point was made today.
22:35What was the reason for the firing of these employees allegedly be under the auspices of diversity, equity, and inclusion?
22:44Again, buzzwords they are obsessed with.
22:46Diversity, equity, and inclusion means women.
22:49It means members of the disabled community.
22:51It means African Americans.
22:53It means Latinos.
22:54It means Native Americans.
22:55It means anyone who they do not deem qualified in their sense.
23:01Hardworking, real, the real people who deserve the positions that they are in have been fired from these positions simply because this administration does not recognize them and does not value them.
23:13So, let us just be honest about who is being impacted here.
23:16Veterans are suffering.
23:17Last week, I held a town hall with the Arizona Disability Coalition.
23:22Several are veterans.
23:23We held a town hall with hundreds of people who came and showed up.
23:27Veterans in Phoenix showed up and are devastated about the cuts to their health care, about the cuts to the VA.
23:34And these are, again, real lives.
23:36My colleagues on the other side of the aisle do not listen to their constituents.
23:41They hide from their constituents, and they don't understand the issues that they're talking about.
23:45I yield back.
23:47I yield back to the ranking member.
23:52I think the points are made quite aptly.
23:55This process undertaken by Doge and Elon Musk and Donald Trump will jeopardize veterans.
24:04They work there.
24:05They serve there.
24:06They're also the customer base of the VA.
24:11To have 9 million veterans put at risk under the false pretense of we're going after the bureaucracy,
24:18there's no way you're not going to get into heart and tissue in terms of the quality of medical care provided for the veterans.
24:27Nothing in this Congress, nothing, should ever promote or provoke us to providing less than absolute excellent quality care for our veterans.
24:40They've earned it.
24:41Their families have earned it.
24:42It's our sacred obligation.
24:44I really appreciate the amendment, and I urge its adoption.
24:49The gentleman's time has expired.
24:50Chair recognizes Mr. Mfume.
24:53Mr. Chairman, I have a point of personal privilege.
24:56Absolutely.
24:57Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the ranking member, I'm going to go this far.
25:02And on behalf of you, I just want to call the attention to the young people who have joined us when we welcome you,
25:08this group of young individuals and students who have stopped by to the Capitol.
25:13This is your House of Representatives in action.
25:17Look at it, learn from it, and grow from it.
25:22It's a unique experience.
25:23I don't know where you might be from, but all of us here on the committee really like it
25:28when we see young people and students stop in to see what we're doing and to check us where possible.
25:35I yield back.
25:37Welcome.
25:41Do any other members seek recognition?
25:43Yes, Ms. Randall.
25:45Thank you, Mr. Chair.
25:48I just wanted to add my voice to disputing the position that everyone who has lost their job has been a wasteful bureaucrat.
26:01I have an e-mail from one of our colleagues at Veterans Affairs in Washington State,
26:10and they share with me some of the folks that they lost on February 24th.
26:18Six from supply chain management, which includes an inventory specialist,
26:24a position that is in such critical short supply that they can no longer staff the night shift.
26:31Those are the folks who ensure that the hospital is supplied with medical supplies and equipment.
26:37This inventory specialist was hired on a veteran's preference,
26:41and her position was so necessary that she was hired during the budgetary hiring pause,
26:48but she lost her job on February 24th.
26:52They lost two program support assistants who go out in the community to help house homeless veterans,
27:01folks who are living on the street.
27:04One of them was a disabled Iraq war veteran and a cancer survivor who was so happy to be back at the VA,
27:11supporting the organization that supported him through his bone marrow transplant and other procedures.
27:17Another program support specialist worked in geriatrics and extended care,
27:22where he was working in the home-based primary care program,
27:26traveling and supporting nurses who were visiting patients who were unable to leave their homes
27:32to come to the hospital to get the care that they needed.
27:37Another in radiology, a similar program where we have had extreme shortages.
27:43Dedicated public servants who believe in the mission of the VA,
27:47who believe in helping their fellow veterans, who show up every day to serve,
27:54but are being characterized as bureaucrats, as wasteful, as a waste of our taxpayer dollars,
28:05when real people, real veterans who have served our community are relying on them to help them access care.
28:16In the midst of all these firings, we've also seen truly wasteful and inefficient use of government resources
28:26when procurement cards were limited to $1.
28:30There was a pause on procurement cards.
28:33What that meant was that folks who were traveling, like that veteran I mentioned earlier,
28:41to receive essential care, like a bone marrow transplant,
28:46were not able to have their housing paid for while they and their family were traveling out of state.
28:53These are serious impacts on veterans in our community who have served bravely
28:58and who continue to do the work of caring for others who have served.
29:02This is not about wasteful bureaucracy.
29:05This is about ensuring that we are keeping our promise to take care of those who have stood up for us.
29:12I yield to my colleague, Mr. Subramanian.
29:18Thank you. I just want to read a story that someone wrote into my office who lives in the district.
29:25She said that I've worked as a contractor on a project for the Department of Veteran Affairs for eight years.
29:29When I first started, our business owner was a woman who had worked for the VA for 20 years.
29:33Her husband and children were veterans.
29:35She had more passion about taking care of our vets than any other business owner I've ever seen.
29:39She was a role model for so many people in our office and for me,
29:42and we were able to accomplish so much good for veterans because of her.
29:45In 2020, she left the VA, and in 2024, she returned to our project.
29:49We were so excited to have her back and have her guidance for our program moving forward,
29:53but she was laid off last week as part of the probationary firings.
29:57Her position has no near-term plan to be filled, and other VA employees are stepping in,
30:01but they do not have the capacity, knowledge, or deep personal relationships to make the project successful.
30:07This has been a devastating and a huge loss for veterans and their families.
30:10We work in back-end IT, so it's not something a veteran would ever notice,
30:13but we work behind the scenes to keep the VA modern and as efficient as possible,
30:17and this is a terrible loss for the American people.
30:20That's just one person who is serving the VA.
30:23Imagine you multiply that by thousands. That's what's going to happen to the VA.
30:27That is not getting rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.
30:29That is making things worse for our veterans.
30:32I yield back to the ranking member.
30:36I thank my friend for his observation.
30:39That's exactly what is happening because there was no vetting.
30:44Time's expired. Any other members seek recognition?