#ImranKhan #SalmanAkramRaja #AdialaJail #IslamabadHighCourt #KHABAR #MohammadMalick #PTILeaders
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Faisal Choudhry (PTI Lawyer)
- Barrister Aqeel Malik PMLN
IHC allows PTI leaders to meet Imran Khan - Mohammad Malick's Report
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Faisal Choudhry (PTI Lawyer)
- Barrister Aqeel Malik PMLN
IHC allows PTI leaders to meet Imran Khan - Mohammad Malick's Report
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar Lahariya, I am Muhammad Balek.
00:15There has been a very interesting development today.
00:17Islamabad High Court has now given permission to meet Imran Khan for two days.
00:22One day we will meet his advocate, Rufqa, and the other day his family.
00:27Interestingly, the most interesting thing is that, and the PTI has also agreed,
00:32that when the prosecution objected and said that we will meet on this condition,
00:38who was the advocate of the Supreme Court,
00:40they said that they will not come out and talk to the media.
00:44And they agreed.
00:45And the court also said that okay, you go, you meet, but there will be no political discussion outside.
00:51And they agreed.
00:53What is the relationship between these two things?
00:56Is it legal? Is it constitutional?
01:26In the meantime, there are many other serious developments that seem to be disconnected.
01:48In December, we saw that the MNAs increased their salaries in Punjab,
01:53then in February we saw that the Central Government also increased their salaries.
01:57Now in March, the Federal Cabinet has increased their salaries.
02:01Yesterday's news is that in Lahore, a man committed suicide due to financial problems.
02:06Two days later, his wife also committed suicide.
02:09Four days ago, in Sindh, a man sold his son for 50,000 rupees.
02:15Because he did not have the bills for the birth of the child.
02:20And he sold the child.
02:22It's not about money, it's not about getting a salary,
02:25I think there should be a salary of 500,000 more.
02:28It's about timing.
02:30When are you giving yourself?
02:32When people are committing suicides, when there is a lot of poverty,
02:36in this country this year, one crore people have gone below the poverty line.
02:40Are our MNAs really so poor that they are not making ends meet?
02:45And they get such a salary?
02:47This shows a disconnect, shows a disparity.
02:50In any case, we cannot legally challenge this.
02:54I think they should take care of themselves.
02:56But we will talk about what is the turn in PTI's politics.
03:00Because a lot of people think that pieces are being damaged.
03:04First, there was a ban on statements.
03:06First, Imran Khan's photo was not allowed.
03:09Then, Imran Khan's name was not allowed.
03:11Then, his clips were not allowed.
03:14Now, the people who are coming to meet him,
03:17there is a ban that you will not have political discussions.
03:20Will the statements be weak? No.
03:22Is the government winning?
03:24And are the PTI people afraid of GIT and all these things and accepting everything?
03:28We will talk about this.
03:30We have with us Barista Aqeel Malik,
03:32Minister of State for Law and Justice, MNA of PMLN.
03:35Thank you very much.
03:36Faisal Chaudhary, Senior Lawyer, Supreme Court.
03:39Let's start with you.
03:41What is the need for a ban? They go.
03:43If there is going to be a meeting or not,
03:45the decision has to be taken.
03:47What is the use of having political discussions outside?
03:50And if a person does not come out of Diyala to talk,
03:53he comes to Islamabad, to pressurize.
03:56So, what is the qualitative difference?
03:58Either you don't do it there or you don't do it there.
04:01Thank you very much, Barista.
04:03Look, the biggest thing in my opinion,
04:08I think the court also recognizes and realizes,
04:11the propaganda that is sold outside,
04:16that today Khan said this, today Khan ate this,
04:19today Khan did this, today Khan scolded him,
04:22today Khan gave this political statement,
04:25and so on and so forth.
04:27Now, the thing is that my brother has also
04:30held many press conferences there.
04:32When he used to go there and meet Basiyat-e-Waqeel,
04:36I will take the guarantee that he does not talk
04:40beyond the black and white.
04:42But if you look at the rest,
04:44start with the family members,
04:46and the rest, on all the tiers,
04:48on all the levels.
04:49So, Salman Akram Raja is saying that
04:51there is no restriction on the family.
04:53No, I think that meetings,
04:55it was not said that if a lawyer goes and meets,
04:57then the lawyer cannot talk.
04:59It's across the board.
05:00Whoever goes in, then cannot come back.
05:04And outside Adyala Jail,
05:06there is a propaganda, a lie,
05:08and a lot of black and white.
05:10I will tell you what he tweeted.
05:12Outside Adyala Jail,
05:13it is necessary to have an immediate conversation
05:15or meet Imran Khan,
05:16which could not be done in October.
05:18Basically, we have compromised.
05:20The statements are not immediate reactions.
05:22The Senate and the National Assembly are present.
05:24The press conference is somewhere,
05:26or a conversation on TV, everything is possible.
05:28We are not living in an exemplary environment.
05:30There is no discrimination against sisters.
05:32Look, there will be an order.
05:34There will be clarity in the order.
05:36And it is across the board that
05:38you will not press outside the premises of Adyala Jail.
05:40Sitting on TV,
05:42every night, my brother is also
05:44setting fire.
05:46If you are saying that
05:48you are selling fake churna,
05:50and it is spreading in the country,
05:52then what difference does it make to churna
05:54if you are letting them sell in Islamabad,
05:56then let them sell at the gate of Adyala.
05:58Or sell there, or sell there,
06:00or sell there, or sell there.
06:02What difference will it make from 10 miles?
06:04Why this?
06:06Look, there is a distinction in this.
06:08Because it is a fresh work.
06:10Standing outside the meeting,
06:12all those things.
06:14Hot, hot Adyala.
06:16I think it should also be avoided.
06:18We will sit on TV at night,
06:20and I am sure TV programs will be discussed again.
06:22The same topics will be discussed.
06:24The condition of the meeting will also be asked.
06:26I think there is no such thing in it.
06:28I think there is no such thing in it.
06:30I think there is no such thing in it.
06:32I think there is no such thing in it.
06:34I think there is no such thing in it.
06:36I think there is no such thing in it.
06:38I think there is no such thing in it.
06:40I think there is no such thing in it.
06:42I think there is no such thing in it.
06:44I think there is no such thing in it.
06:46I think there is no such thing in it.
06:48I think there is no such thing in it.
06:50I think there is no such thing in it.
06:52I think there is no such thing in it.
06:54I think there is no such thing in it.
06:56Kathir Rao's point of view?
06:58Are you sons of revolution?
07:02Have the arms of the faith
07:02day begun?
07:03Have the arms of the faith
07:04day begun?
07:06Those who lead have always been
07:08the revolutionaries,
07:10our workers have kept it alive.
07:11On 4th October the work were
07:13carried on
07:14there.
07:15We were there with
07:16Bashar mighty against
07:17Habib B mostrar,
07:19our literature was on
07:22par with others.
07:23The problem is that it is a war of
07:25of his political opponents, because I also, I have been the contributor, so I have narrated
07:37it.
07:38So, the narrative, if that doesn't come out, then you will go into incommunicado.
07:44So, this is important, the question you just raised, is this a general lawyer's order?
07:53I have asked the court reporters, so the court reporters have told me that this is a general
07:59lawyer's order.
08:00Exceptions have not been created.
08:01Meaning, if exceptions have not been created, then whoever will meet me, or other friends,
08:07they will not be able to talk.
08:09So, if a general order comes in which the judge has forgotten to write a dialogue, and
08:13it comes that whatever meetings will take place, after that you will not be able to
08:17have a political conversation.
08:19It doesn't make any sense.
08:31Would you be surprised?
08:34I don't think so.
08:35I don't think such a decision will come.
08:36I think the pressure outside Adyala, which is misguided pressure, which hogs the TV
08:40screens, sometimes Ms. Aleema does it, sometimes my brother does it, sometimes Mr. Salman Akram
08:45Rai does it.
08:46Then, X, Y, Z, whichever party, whatever the leadership is, they come and sell their own
08:51lies, their own fabric.
08:53And the most important thing in this is, that day I passed by, that Mr. Salman Akram Rai
08:58was standing, he was talking, Mr. Indira Panjwada was with him, when he was doing his
09:05presser, he had his own alarming situation or expressions on that whole thing, that
09:10what is he doing, what is he talking about.
09:12So, moving away from the black and white…
09:14No, that is your assumption.
09:16No, it is not an assumption, it can be seen, facial expressions.
09:19Tell me this, why do you believe this?
09:22I think sometimes it happens that you have to do it spontaneously.
09:29Obviously, Mr. Salman is a senior lawyer.
09:32What will be the impact if you come to Islamabad after 15 minutes?
09:37Sir, this is very confusing.
09:39I don't think, knowing your situation in the court, see this is a political case,
09:44these are not legal cases.
09:46That is why you saw that all the petitions went to the larger bank.
09:51Now, if a blanket order comes to the larger bank, then it will be a very severe order.
09:59The narrative that comes to the Khans, on social media, the tweets that Alima Khan
10:05does, are in her own words.
10:08So, what comes in her own words, her expression, her statement has an effect on political
10:14workers, on the party.
10:16That effect will not be in someone else's tweets or pressers.
10:20So, what Alima Khan does, for example, if there is a ban on Alima Khan's speech,
10:26it would be a serious blow, as far as I am concerned, in my personal opinion.
10:31Because she talks there, then you see, a complete science...
10:35First, there was an impression that your party has been choked.
10:38Now, what is it?
10:39Then there is the impression that your narrative is being choked.
10:42See, what you said in the beginning, that is very important.
10:46Part and parcel.
10:51Death by a thousand cuts.
10:53Yes.
10:54First, you put a ban on Imran Khan's picture, put a ban on his name, put a ban on his voice.
11:00One day, a picture came out of the Supreme Court.
11:02Now, if there is a ban on his speech, then this is unacceptable.
11:07At least, political workers like us...
11:10Have you accepted it?
11:11How is it unacceptable?
11:12See, this will happen. We will fight it out.
11:14Obviously, it was my opinion that we should have fought it out.
11:18That we should have submitted it to them.
11:21But, obviously, when this decision will be made, there is a lot of confusion.
11:25Because one thing, the reporters are saying, that it is the order of General Nohiyat,
11:31Mr. Rai is talking about something else. So, this is a confusion.
11:34I think, when this decision will be made, whatever discussion there will be, it will not be shared.
11:41Otherwise, what is the difference between Diyala and Islamabad?
11:44It is a 15 minute drive.
11:46You can leave from Diyala and go to Daghelwadi and talk.
11:48Then, your purpose will not be fulfilled.
11:50Why would you just do it? What difference does it make from the Diyala gate?
11:53Then, why are you doing all these hassles?
11:55As I told you, the hot, fresh work, that is very confusing.
12:01No, we will cool it down for sure.
12:03You see, if you tell me not to leave Diyala...
12:06Other people from your party will come and have discussions.
12:09In the evening programs, these things will be made.
12:13These discussions will take place.
12:15There is no ambiguity in this.
12:17We are not putting any pressure on freedom of expression.
12:20But, it is very clear.
12:22Sir, tell me one thing.
12:24Logical.
12:26So, why can't this be done at the Diyala gate, like it can be done in Islamabad?
12:29Explain me the logic behind this.
12:31They made an argument, that whatever facilities are given to them,
12:34when they meet them, they misuse them.
12:37And, after the meeting, they come out of jail and make political statements.
12:40This is a violation.
12:41This is what I said.
12:42What kind of violation is this?
12:44If I go and meet a political person,
12:46even if I am his lawyer, I talk to him about politics.
12:49If I come out and talk to my client,
12:51in the whole world,
12:52let alone jail,
12:54outside the courtroom, the media stands with the lawyers,
12:57outside the courts, the courts talk about everything.
13:00What is wrong in this?
13:02What is right?
13:03Why?
13:04Why shouldn't they have the right to talk?
13:05Why?
13:06Look, I think,
13:07there shouldn't be any sensation.
13:09They shouldn't say anything,
13:10and then you say,
13:11that they can't talk.
13:12Why do you say this?
13:13At the Diyala gate.
13:14But, it's not for me to say.
13:16Sir, the thing is,
13:17the court has put this,
13:18not the government.
13:19You are the Minister of State for Law and Justice.
13:22You should be able to explain it to us.
13:24I cannot regulate a judge's mind.
13:28Do you agree with this?
13:30Look, I agree,
13:31because obviously,
13:32it's the...
13:33If you agree,
13:34then justify it.
13:35Why don't you?
13:36Sensationalize.
13:37What you are doing.
13:3815 minutes,
13:392 miles away,
13:40they are sensationalizing.
13:41It takes time to reach Diyala.
13:42So, what difference does it make?
13:43It takes petrol.
13:44You have to take a car.
13:45So, what?
13:46Because, let me tell you,
13:47all this...
13:48It will become a new norm.
13:49People are used to,
13:50going out of Diyala,
13:51there is a press conference.
13:52Then people will know,
13:53every half an hour,
13:54there will be a press conference.
13:56It will become a new norm.
13:57No.
13:58This is not logical.
13:59This is not logical.
14:00You cannot stand here and do this.
14:02You can stand here and do this.
14:03This is not logical.
14:04It's not that.
14:05I think,
14:06a lot of their people,
14:08and all the people of their party,
14:10whether that's leaders,
14:11whether that's leaders,
14:12whoever they are,
14:13they go to be seen.
14:16Let's go to Mr. Naveed Malik,
14:18who is the Supreme Judge.
14:20Assalam-o-Alaikum, Mr. Malik.
14:21Yes, Walaikum-o-Alaikum.
14:22How are you, sir?
14:23I am fine.
14:24Thank you for taking the time.
14:25Tell us,
14:26there is a lot of confusion,
14:28that this restriction,
14:30of talking,
14:31is it only on their deputy,
14:34on Rufqa,
14:35that their family can't come out,
14:37out of Adiala Jail,
14:38and have political discussions?
14:40Look,
14:41the petition that was submitted today,
14:44on that,
14:45one,
14:46it was our request,
14:47from Mr. Jai,
14:48that multiple petitions are being filed,
14:50regarding meeting with the Bani PTI.
14:54So,
14:55the Supreme Judge of Adiala Jail,
14:57has left his work from there,
14:59and is standing here in the courts,
15:01so that they are clubbed,
15:02and only one decision is made,
15:04according to which,
15:05the meeting with them,
15:06is scheduled.
15:07So,
15:08during this litigation,
15:09there was an intra-court appeal,
15:11336 of 2023,
15:13in that,
15:14there was already a decision,
15:15after which,
15:16the Bani PTI,
15:17with their signature,
15:18and with the signature of the Supreme Jail,
15:20an SOP was decided.
15:22But later,
15:23they themselves,
15:24while violating that SOP,
15:26didn't even recommend a proper name,
15:29there,
15:30every person who came to meet,
15:32and whom we refused,
15:33would come in a red petition.
15:35The next day,
15:36they would file a content petition.
15:38So,
15:39this process was going on.
15:40Look,
15:41the Supreme Jail,
15:42is also subject to rules and regulations.
15:44There,
15:45the PPR,
15:46which is our 1978,
15:48Pakistan Prisoner Rules,
15:50according to that,
15:51you are asking,
15:52how can they impose restrictions?
15:54They can impose restrictions in such a way,
15:56that there is a proper rule,
15:58256,
15:59where the convicted person,
16:01cannot have a political conversation,
16:03or can't do politics.
16:05And,
16:06this same law,
16:07then,
16:08in a Supreme Court judgment,
16:10when Zulfiqar Ali Bhutta Sahib,
16:12filed the petition,
16:14in the Supreme Court,
16:15in that also,
16:16it was held,
16:17that the convicted person,
16:19can neither be the head of the party,
16:21nor can he have a political conversation,
16:23nor can he do any activities,
16:24during the prison.
16:25So,
16:26all these things,
16:27are already present.
16:28This is not a new thing.
16:30We only requested the court,
16:32that,
16:33because there are a lot of issues,
16:34there,
16:35security arrangements have to be made.
16:36Instead of two days,
16:37schedule the meeting in one day.
16:39We will increase the timing.
16:40But,
16:41what is the order,
16:42that the decision should be made?
16:43Yes,
16:44yes,
16:45brother Faisal,
16:46I will tell you.
16:47We will increase their timings.
16:48So,
16:49you can convert it in one day.
16:50We never refused the meeting.
16:52But,
16:53every person will come,
16:54that we want to meet,
16:55without any recommendation.
16:57Now,
16:58before,
16:59a single batch,
17:00before the SOP,
17:02had made an order,
17:03that now,
17:04the list,
17:05will be given by Imran Niazi,
17:06himself.
17:07After that,
17:08he started giving the list,
17:09himself.
17:10But,
17:11in that ICA petition,
17:12it was said,
17:13that it will be through coordinator.
17:14So,
17:15now,
17:16the court has decided,
17:17that all the petitions,
17:18are ready.
17:19Disposing all of them,
17:20they have decided,
17:21that the ICA336,
17:22of 2023,
17:23has been decided.
17:24And,
17:25as a result,
17:26the SOPs that were made,
17:27will be followed accordingly.
17:28Our request,
17:29was definitely,
17:30that,
17:31PPR,
17:321978,
17:33according to that,
17:34the political discussions,
17:35cannot be done.
17:36So,
17:37they come out,
17:38and in the same way,
17:39the things are criticized.
17:40There is a lot of difference,
17:41among themselves.
17:42One group talks,
17:43another group talks,
17:44third group talks.
17:45So,
17:46these things,
17:47should not happen.
17:48So,
17:49the court,
17:50asked the other group,
17:51and they gave an undertaking.
17:52Now,
17:53there will be a detailed order,
17:54even I have not read it.
17:55There will be a detailed order,
17:56so we will see.
17:57No,
17:58what is your understanding,
17:59that,
18:00the political discussions,
18:01that should not be done,
18:02outside,
18:03should not be done,
18:04should not be done,
18:05should not be done,
18:06should not be done,
18:07should not be done,
18:08should not be done,
18:09should not be done,
18:10should not be done,
18:11should not be done,
18:12should not be done,
18:13should not be done,
18:14should not be done,
18:15should not be done,
18:16should not be done,
18:17should not be done,
18:18should not be done,
18:19No.
18:20So,
18:21in forgetful silence,
18:22should not be done.
18:23That is my understanding,
18:24that,
18:25should not be done.
18:26I understand very well,
18:27that the court should not
18:28have the intention,
18:29that,
18:30that,
18:31that,
18:32that,
18:33that,
18:34that,
18:35that,
18:36that,
18:37that,
18:38that,
18:39that,
18:40that,
18:41that,
18:42that,
18:43that,
18:44that,
18:45that,
18:46that,
18:47that.
18:48As per Pakistan Prisoner Rule 1978 and as per Supreme Court Judgment Zulfiqar Ahmed Buttah
19:12In light of that judgment, we request that on the other side, we request
19:15When is the court's decision expected on this?
19:17Let's see whether they write it today or tomorrow, but we can't say that
19:23But if we amend one law for one person and give more than that, then there are 8000 people there
19:29If this goes on, we might be saved from the PTI petition
19:34No, out of those 8000, for 7999, the door doesn't even open for you
19:38But it's okay, it's okay
19:40Mr. Malik, thank you very much, thank you for your time
19:42Thank you very much
19:44Sir, they are talking about the total blanket
19:48I am saying the same thing
19:50They are saying, leave this, that it will be applied on the sisters as well
19:53This is their understanding
19:55But they are not stopping at Adhiyala, they are saying that it won't be applied anywhere
19:58Exceptions have not been created, it's a general order
20:01That means you can't tweet, as Mr. Malik just said
20:05There is a restriction on tweets as well, no one can come from there and tweet
20:09And this is to cover up the narrative and to stop it
20:13To stop the message that used to come out of Mr. Imran Khan
20:17Now this
20:19That's why their smiles are not stopping at Adhiyala
20:21There is one way, they can write letters
20:25No, they are politicians, they can't say anything political
20:29They are writing letters
20:32I was also counsel in that case
20:38That was done in the Senate elections
20:42By the way, according to the law of that time
20:47The disqualification was according to Article 62, 63
20:51So basically Abbas people are in a total, as they say in Punjabi,
20:57Absolutely, if someone meets you, don't talk about it
21:02So whatever you talk about, keep it aside
21:04Why are you so scared?
21:06No, I'm not scared, what's there to be scared about?
21:08What's there to be brave about?
21:10Look, in this, it can be a matter of bravery to finish the lie
21:15To nip in the bud the spread
21:18What do you mean by spread?
21:20You are saying that it shouldn't be political
21:22Not political, the state of the meeting
21:25So what do we have to do in Turkey?
21:28We will talk about politics
21:30What else will we do?
21:32Who knows, maybe they will give a recipe in Turkey
21:34No, no, I mean, it doesn't make sense
21:36When we sit, you sit, we talk politics
21:40It's time for a short break, stay with us
21:49Welcome back
21:50Can I ask him a question?
21:52Every law is made for others, then it is burned by itself
21:55In the future, you can also be in the opposition
21:58You can also be punished
22:00It's not a big deal to be punished at this time
22:02Being free is news, being punished is not the news of a politician
22:05And this will also apply to you
22:07These are the prison rules
22:09That no one will talk, no political talk
22:11Have you thought about it before doing this?
22:13What they did to you now, it happened to them too
22:17In their government, what happened to you
22:21Here Rana Sinhaullah Bhai's cases were made, others were made
22:24Now they are also suffering
22:26So what goes around comes around
22:28No one survives
22:29That's the general law
22:31That's why you won't survive
22:33Do you think it's right that the political leader inside
22:36Don't talk to him about politics
22:38Does he believe in logic, does he believe in the mind?
22:40No, the people of your party
22:42Look, they were not forbidden to talk politically
22:45You need to draw that distinction
22:48He said political talk
22:52He said that political talk is not allowed
22:55This word has just been introduced by Mr. Malik
22:57Political talk cannot be done in the prison rule
23:00Look at political talk
23:02It cannot be so closely watched and regulated
23:05That two people or three people meet when they do
23:08So obviously there is no political talk
23:10When I come out, I will tell you that
23:12Come out and tell
23:14Do you realize the gravity
23:16The understanding of those who spoke
23:18That this application is not stopping at the door of Diyala
23:21This is going on
23:23Across the board
23:25This is very alarming
23:27If I take his words seriously
23:30Obviously subject to the order that is passed
23:33This means that the narrative of Imran Khan
23:35Which used to come out earlier
23:37The message that used to come
23:39Our thoughts are different
23:41The message that used to come
23:43It used to come through us
23:45It used to come through the family
23:47So it means that the blanket has been put on it
23:49And the narrative war
23:51They don't have a narrative
23:53So you are releasing the narrative of the other side
23:56So there is no talk
23:58Neither your shows that start with Imran Khan
24:00End at Imran Khan
24:02Will you tell the price of tomatoes there?
24:04Will you tell the price of onions?
24:06What would you discuss?
24:08The issue is that if you put a ban on politics
24:10Which is my right
24:12That I talk about it
24:14I give my opinion
24:16And obviously every time
24:18Idealizes a political leader
24:20If we meet with Imran Khan
24:22And he talks
24:24We talk about the same thing outside
24:26Or we promote it
24:28If you put a ban on him
24:30Which is in my view is totally illegal
24:32But this
24:34Your party's secretary general has agreed
24:36What are you so much
24:38Do you think your secretary general has agreed?
24:40That yes okay
24:42I don't know
24:44Whether the meeting is over or not
24:46The meeting is over
24:48There is no use of that meeting
24:50The problem is that if the secretary general
24:52And the chairman
24:54These are our political people
24:56Even if they meet
24:58They don't have that conversation
25:00Which Alima Bibi and Imran Khan talk
25:02Alima Bibi talks about Imran Khan
25:04They don't have their own conversation
25:06It's a narrative
25:08It's okay
25:10Whatever we talk about
25:12We talk to the media
25:14We don't report it
25:16It's a weightage of Imran Khan's conversation
25:18But if you put a ban on Imran Khan's conversation
25:20I think
25:22There is no greater crime than this
25:24Obviously if this was the case
25:26Would you challenge it in the High Court?
25:28No, the High Court has a three-member bench
25:30The Supreme Court will have to go
25:32It won't apply there
25:34I don't understand
25:36Judiciary is at war with itself
25:38Now there is a scene in Islamabad High Court
25:40There was a tribunal
25:42The member broke it
25:44Those three judges said
25:46This can't be broken
25:48This can't be done
25:50They said that the Chief Justice
25:52Acting Chief Justice
25:54They don't have the power to recommend names
25:56For the tribunal of new judges
25:58And on the 13th
26:00They keep their decision
26:02On the 18th, the tribunal changes
26:04On the 23rd and 24th
26:06They keep their decision
26:08Can we discuss this decision?
26:10Is the legal bench
26:12The safe decision
26:14And on the 18th, the bench changes
26:16Rightly or wrongly
26:18Can the old bench add on to that earlier decision
26:20It's safe, you released it
26:22But in that
26:24Subsequent order is mentioned
26:26Obviously it's a development after the 18th
26:28So what's going on?
26:30How will the country run
26:32If Supreme Court judges
26:34Are at war with each other
26:36High Court judges are not accepting their Chief Justice
26:38Chief Justice is making changes
26:40How will this
26:42In your ministry
26:44In your jurisdiction
26:46What's going on?
26:48The tribunal that you mentioned
26:50Safeguarding the decision
26:52Here, many judges
26:54Safeguard the decision
26:566 months, 1 year, 2 years
26:58Mr. Faisal is a practicing lawyer
27:00You can see this
27:02But there's a timeline
27:04I think Supreme Court has a judgment
27:06If it's not heard for 6 months
27:08That can be heard afresh as well
27:10Here, if a bench
27:12Has been changed
27:16Through an administrative order
27:18If there's an
27:20Administration committee
27:22Or AC committee
27:24Then it's
27:26It can be changed
27:28Can an acting Chief Justice
27:30Recommend a name
27:32For a permanent Chief Justice
27:34Is there a difference in authority?
27:36See, an acting president
27:38And a permanent president
27:40Have the same powers
27:42And as long as the powers
27:44Are the same
27:46They can take any legal measures
27:48Or exercise
27:50Rightful power or legal power
27:52So these 3 judges are saying
27:54An acting Chief Justice
27:56Doesn't have the powers
27:58I think he has the powers
28:00When you're acting
28:02You have the same powers
28:04It's just that
28:06Whether you're permanent
28:08You're temporary
28:10You're a duty officer
28:12You have the powers
28:14There was a case
28:16Taken from Sardar Ishaq Khan
28:18When he made a larger bench
28:20He said
28:22An acting Chief Justice
28:24Can't take a pending case
28:26Can a Chief Justice take it?
28:28Because in all these cases
28:30One thing is agreed upon
28:32Either it's a matter of handpicked judges
28:34Or Imran Khan's cases
28:36A reasonable, prudent mind
28:38Will appeal to this
28:40When 100 petitions
28:42Have been filed
28:44And a larger bench has been made
28:46Then on the same subject
28:48How can a single judge
28:50How can a single judge
28:52So shouldn't that judge
28:54Be a part of the larger bench?
28:56Not necessarily
28:58You've said it's logical and prudent
29:00Isn't it prudent
29:02To put that judge on the bench?
29:04Just because you're in danger
29:06That he'll go against you?
29:08No, this is not a threat
29:10Logically, should he be a part of the larger bench?
29:12I think this is discretion
29:14Of the Chief Justice
29:16I'm not asking who's discretion
29:18My opinion as a practitioner
29:20I would expect
29:22As a practitioner, as a lawyer
29:24Thank you
29:26You've answered my question
29:28I and Faisal would expect
29:30Two or four cases
29:32From one judge
29:34But again, discretion
29:36My expectation
29:38What happens is
29:40The judges who are listening
29:42Have been removed
29:44And three new inducted judges
29:46Legally speaking
29:48One is law
29:50And the other is property
29:52Judicial power
29:54Is equal to that of the Chief Justice
29:56And equal to that of other judges
29:58Administratively, they have an edge
30:00On their peers
30:02Now there were two questions you asked
30:04Number one, whether the Acting Chief Justice
30:06Has the same power
30:08In my opinion, purely legal opinion
30:10Because he has been appointed
30:12Acting Chief Justice by the Judicial Commission of Pakistan
30:14So when they have appointed
30:16You can't take away
30:18Any specific law
30:20The tribunals
30:22Under the Subordinate Judiciary Act
30:24The President has to do it
30:26But he has to consult
30:28With the Chief Justice
30:30But he has written in his decision
30:32That as long as there is no vacancy
30:34The tribunal cannot be changed
30:36I don't see this in the law
30:38I don't see this in the law either
30:40The second thing is
30:42Your consultation
30:44Meaningful consultation
30:46With the Chief Justice
30:48The second thing is
30:50You asked a technical question
30:52If the decision is secured
30:54The development
30:56You can talk about it
30:58In a secured decision
31:00But not in my opinion
31:02Either you take a judicial notice
31:04And then both parties listen to it
31:06That is a different matter
31:08But if one thing
31:10If the decision is secured
31:12And there are 15 quick developments
31:14And it is related to that
31:16And it is not a challenge
31:18So either it is a challenge
31:20Then how will this system work
31:22Judges are not tolerating each other
31:24This is a problem
31:26The problem is
31:28The lawyers are among those who fight
31:30Their job is to fight
31:32The problem is of lawyers like us
31:34Who have a job
31:36The problem is in the Supreme Court
31:38Who is getting angry in this fight?
31:40The people
31:42I can tell you that
31:44Decisions are not written for 2-2.5 years
31:46If you go and file
31:48On our client
31:50Then you have a contemporary issue
31:52Why did you tell us to make this decision
31:54You have kept it for 2 years
31:56Now please dismiss it
31:58Now tell me
32:00If this decision comes
32:02As the lawyer was saying
32:04His understanding is that
32:06This will happen
32:08And this will not stop at the door of Allah
32:10This is everywhere
32:12What option do you have
32:14Will you challenge this in the Supreme Court
32:16Will you go to the Constitutional Bank
32:18Yes, the Constitutional Bank
32:20Obviously this is a legal issue
32:24What are your expectations
32:26For example
32:28If someone goes to a normal bank
32:30Let's suppose
32:32We don't even know the criteria
32:34If we don't know
32:36Then it will be very difficult for us
32:38For example, we have been in litigation for 6 months
32:40We have been in litigation for 6 months
32:42Then it will be a big problem for us
32:44Politically for the party
32:46Even for us
32:48If Imran Khan is not allowed to speak
32:50If I do
32:52I will have to create an exception
32:54Then what is the statement
32:56Is the statement up to your level
32:58Or is it up to everyone's level
33:00If you come and talk
33:02If you come and talk
33:04If you come and talk
33:06If you come and talk
33:08What will be the consequence for them
33:10First of all
33:12That is an option
33:14The content of court
33:16The order of the court
33:18But with that
33:20First the order comes
33:22In black and white
33:24I would like to see it
33:26Is there any exception
33:28As Faisal said
33:30If you come and say
33:32After the order
33:34Today Khan said this
33:36Then that is the content of court
33:38But then I will take
33:40I will tell you
33:42I am a better lawyer than you
33:44Why should I be bound
33:46By Raja Salman Raja's statement
33:48Why would I
33:50He is the secretary general of the party
33:52I am not a party
33:54I am not a party
33:56He will come to the decision
33:58Raja Salman will be thrown under the bus
34:00By entire PTI
34:02And PTI will say
34:04He is not a secretary
34:06He is a secretary according to our constitution
34:08How can he give a statement
34:10If Khan finds out
34:12That there is a restriction on my statements
34:14He won't be happy
34:16He won't be happy
34:18He respects him a lot
34:20I don't think so
34:22But he won't be happy
34:24Khan's media and narrative
34:26They take it seriously
34:28Even their tweets
34:30They think about it
34:32Time for a little break
34:40Welcome to the program
34:42You have taken an extreme step
34:44I think it's not extreme
34:46If you talk about stability
34:48Then you talk about engagement
34:50You are ready to talk to the separatists
34:52You are ready to talk to the Taliban
34:54You are ready to talk to the Taliban
34:56To a certain extent
34:58Who are their misguided people
35:00You are not even ready to listen to Imran Khan
35:02We have engaged
35:04In three meetings
35:06He did not come in the fourth
35:08Now there is a meeting of the parliamentary committee
35:10National security and camera briefing
35:12Do they come to Imran Khan?
35:14When their party is represented
35:16And this is a parliamentary committee
35:18For parliamentarians
35:20I totally agree with them
35:22You guys should have been in that committee
35:24You guys should have been in that committee
35:26You should have gone
35:28You should have gone
35:30Why didn't you go?
35:32Why didn't you go?
35:34The thing is
35:36How can you go without Imran Khan's consent?
35:38Go
35:40You two go inside
35:42You go in the morning
35:44And say that the way to Diyala is half an hour
35:46Let our people go
35:48Ali Meen was there
35:50Didn't you talk to him?
35:52They are not as good as you
35:54No, they are not
35:56We know their reality
35:58They don't do it
36:00You want to use us
36:02Without meeting Imran Khan
36:04If you knew everything
36:06Then why did you come in such a bad situation?
36:08You should have known
36:10Then you wouldn't have stood here
36:12The problem is
36:14You know everything before time
36:16We know how much Mr. Balwant lied
36:18The problem is
36:20The people we lied to
36:22Didn't know
36:24When he told me
36:26Your politics is based on presumptions
36:28Yes, it is
36:30It is based on your dreams
36:32But on a serious note
36:34How seriously are you worried
36:36About today's development?
36:38I am extremely worried
36:40This is a very damning order
36:42And the thing I have heard
36:44Mr. Naveed Malik's
36:46Discussion
36:48Clubbing is a normal procedure
36:50It happens
36:52The propriety was not right
36:54You should have asked
36:56Mr. Saag to send the rest
36:58So that if he had to make a decision
37:00It would have been a challenge
37:02It was not proper to transfer the case
37:04From him
37:06But the issue is
37:08The next
37:10Naveed of the blanket ban
37:12Subject to the order of the court
37:14That is very alarming for me
37:16If there is a blanket ban
37:18For example
37:20I was not in attendance
37:22I was not there
37:24How will he apply it on me?
37:26It means that
37:28I will go
37:30If he talks
37:32You will not let him meet
37:34I will give him free advice
37:36Mr. Faisal, you are a better lawyer than me
37:38It is obvious
37:40You can challenge him
37:42In the Supreme Court
37:44Regarding the article
37:46Regarding freedom of expression
37:48We call roti as chochi
37:50We call roti as chochi
37:52Sir, we have also been in the government
37:54We also know
37:56Sir, I am an advocate general
37:58I know
38:00I know how the state works
38:02I know it
38:04What is your option?
38:06What is your option?
38:08This is the option
38:10We will go to the court
38:12As an individual
38:14Why am I bound by that?
38:16You will have to go to the easy bench
38:18Where are they, sir?
38:20Easy bench
38:22Favourable bench
38:24Why easy bench?
38:26They always
38:28They always
38:30Because they have been in the government
38:32No, no
38:34Listen to me
38:36I have never done it
38:38I have never done it
38:40You have both been given a big lift
38:42Good to see you
38:44You also
38:46You have also
38:48In the accusation of your sympathies
38:50In the accusation of your sympathies
38:52Mr. Chief Justice has also been released
38:54You have also been killed
38:56You have also been killed
38:58But the only thing is
39:00We have seen in the past
39:02Whenever political issues
39:04Are countered by administrative measures
39:06At present, there is a lot of relief
39:08But not in the long term
39:10Political problems
39:12Have to be handled politically
39:14Now it seems that the question for you
39:16You are dealing with administrative measures
39:18You are dealing with administrative measures
39:20Party, you give, rub it
39:22No one comes out
39:24Hit, call the family
39:26Call in JIT, call for 6 hours
39:28Perfectly fine
39:30Harassment is complete, people are scared
39:32People are scared
39:34People are scared
39:36People are scared
39:38They wait in the wings
39:40They wait in the wings
39:42They wait in the wings
39:44They wait in the wings
39:46They wait in the wings
39:48They wait in the wings
39:50They wait in the wings
39:52They wait in the wings
39:54They wait in the wings
39:56They wait in the wings
39:58They wait in the wings
40:00There is no receptiveness
40:02From that side
40:04There is no desire for engagement
40:06That I go to the political solution
40:08Of political issues
40:10Or find a political solution
40:12From our side
40:14There is no receptiveness
40:16There is no receptiveness
40:18Look there, a half-hearted attempt was made
40:20When there was no other way
40:22And then the political battle
40:24Was left in the middle
40:26You think so much
40:28You think so much
40:30You think so much
40:32You think so much
40:34You think so much
40:36You think so much
40:38You think so much
40:40You think so much
40:42You think so much
40:44You think so much
40:46You think so much
40:48You think so much
40:50You think so much
40:52You think so much
40:54You think so much
40:56You think so much
40:58You think so much
41:00You think so much
41:02You think so much
41:04You think so much
41:06You think so much
41:08You think so much
41:10You think so much
41:12You think so much
41:14You think so much
41:16You think so much
41:18You think so much
41:20You think so much
41:22You think so much
41:24You think so much
41:26You think so much
41:28You think so much
41:30You think so much
41:32You think so much
41:34You think so much
41:36You think so much
41:38You think so much
41:40You think so much
41:42You think so much
41:44You think so much
41:46You think so much
41:48You think so much
41:50You think so much
41:52You think so much
41:54You think so much
41:56You think so much
41:58You think so much
42:00You think so much
42:02You think so much
42:04You think so much
42:06You think so much
42:08You think so much
42:10You think so much
42:12You think so much
42:14You think so much
42:16You think so much
42:18You think so much
42:20You think so much
42:22You think so much
42:24You think so much
42:26You think so much
42:28You think so much
42:30You think so much
42:32You think so much
42:34You think so much
42:36You think so much
42:38You think so much
42:40You think so much
42:42You think so much
42:44You think so much
42:46You think so much