Forbes
  • 4 days ago
On this episode of the Forbes Top Creators Show, assistant managing editor Steve Bertoni sits down with Kareem Rahma (@kareemrahma), host of @SubwayTakes and @keepthemeterrunning, to hear about how how his hit show went from humble beginnings to booking Cate Blanchett, Kamala Harris, and Tim Walz. We also dive into his past career, and how it influenced his success today.

0:00 Introduction
1:03 How Kareem Became A Content Creator
7:02 The Museum Of Pizza
11:10 How His Media Career Laid The Groundwork For Today
18:10 From CEO To In Front Of The Camera
25:26 Kareem’s First Online Shows
33:40 Writing His First Movie Script
37:30 “Keep The Meter Running” - Kareem’s First Big Break
48:23: How “SubwayTakes” Came To Be
56:24 What Kareem’s Working On Today
1:00:37 The Cate Blanchett Episode
1:06:12 The Kamala Harris & Tim Walz Episodes
1:14:25 How Do You Make Money?
1:22:32 Future Endeavors

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Transcript
00:00:00We had like $10,000 left in our bank account and we were like let's just do the opposite of what we've been doing.
00:00:07I had the idea to do a show about takes.
00:00:10Business partner Andrew said, what if we did it on the subway?
00:00:12I said, you know what, we don't have money for a studio so sounds good to me.
00:00:20Hey everybody, I'm here with Kareem Rama, a man who has too many jobs.
00:00:25Content creator, filmmaker, comedian, what else?
00:00:30Musician, you forgot about musician.
00:00:32Musician, that's right.
00:00:33Rock band, right?
00:00:34Rock and roll, baby.
00:00:35What kind of music?
00:00:36I think it would feel like, I don't want to say classic rock, but there's so many different
00:00:42classic rocks now.
00:00:43Like the Strokes are kind of classic rock.
00:00:45Which is scary when you hear that.
00:00:46Yeah, yeah.
00:00:47So it's like, I just say like, what I say is New York rock and roll.
00:00:51Because that is a timeless endeavor is New York rock and roll.
00:00:55So I make New York rock and roll.
00:00:57Yeah, that's the resume, man.
00:00:59I love it.
00:01:00I want to talk about what you're doing now and how you became a content creator.
00:01:04You have a very interesting background.
00:01:07You were a fellow journalist or media person as well.
00:01:12And I want to just hear like, how did you get to where you're at right now?
00:01:16You know, I spent, I'll fast rewind all the way.
00:01:20So I majored in journalism with an emphasis in advertising.
00:01:24This was in 2008.
00:01:25And I think at the time, there wasn't really much conversation about journalism and advertising.
00:01:31And I certainly didn't try to predict the future.
00:01:34But I was simply trying to make the journalism degree a little cooler, you know, a little
00:01:40more interesting.
00:01:41And this was the time when Mad Men was happening.
00:01:43So I was like, you know what, the advertising guys, they look like they're having a lot
00:01:47of fun.
00:01:48So let me just tack on this emphasis in advertising.
00:01:51And it's good to have a backup in case journalism doesn't work out, you can always go into advertising.
00:01:55I never had a desire to be a journalist.
00:01:57I just picked that major based on how fun and easy it looked.
00:02:01You know?
00:02:02Was it fun and easy?
00:02:03Yeah.
00:02:04It was super fun and easy.
00:02:05How about you?
00:02:07I studied, I didn't study journalism.
00:02:09I studied international relations undergrad, which a lot of journalists do because we can't
00:02:14pick what we want to do.
00:02:15So it's like a little this, little that.
00:02:17And then I went into the real world, worked in finance, and then I went to journalism
00:02:20afterwards, journalism school, which was like, I treated more like a job and it was very
00:02:25cool.
00:02:26Yeah.
00:02:27That's my point.
00:02:28You don't need the school.
00:02:29No.
00:02:30I would not recommend doing undergrad journalism.
00:02:33Grad school journalism, great, but go learn other skills.
00:02:36Unless you're just doing a degree to get a degree, which is what I did.
00:02:39Yes.
00:02:40But also, as you know, anyone, it's not like you have to pass a test to be a journalist.
00:02:43No.
00:02:44But you have to pass a number of tests.
00:02:46What do you do?
00:02:47The job market being probably the biggest test.
00:02:49Can you withstand being jobless for a really long time?
00:02:53Yes.
00:02:54Or working really hard for really little money.
00:02:55Yeah.
00:02:56So it's more of a pain test.
00:02:57But once you make it in the club, pretty great perks.
00:03:01Yeah.
00:03:02So I majored in journalism, emphasis in advertising, ended up working at some advertising agencies
00:03:08for a while.
00:03:09My first gig was an SEO specialist, which at the time I hated, but I think has served
00:03:16me well.
00:03:19And then I moved to New York.
00:03:21I miraculously and accidentally got a job at Vice.
00:03:26This was in 2012.
00:03:27Wow.
00:03:28This is when Vice was valued at $10 billion and all that crazy stuff?
00:03:33It was before the 10 billion, but it was right when the first rounds of capital started infusing
00:03:38the company.
00:03:39So I saw it change overnight.
00:03:40I saw it go from like, we're a run and gun operation, where I didn't have a desk or a
00:03:44computer the first week I worked there, to we're moving into a new multimillion dollar
00:03:49office.
00:03:50Like I was there during...
00:03:51And the office size went from 75, you know, 25 year olds to 300 or 400 people of all ages.
00:03:59So it turned into a real company while I was there.
00:04:02And I was the head of audience development, which is kind of like a marketing role.
00:04:10It's kind of like a digital role.
00:04:11It's kind of a content role.
00:04:12It's kind of a little bit of everything.
00:04:13We have audience development here, but it's always at Forbes, but we see it as for events,
00:04:18like to fill seats.
00:04:19Was it live events for you or was it totally different?
00:04:21No.
00:04:22That's a whole new...
00:04:23Like when I was...
00:04:24No, that was not the role.
00:04:25Okay.
00:04:26That was event marketing.
00:04:27Audience development back then was more about...
00:04:30It was content marketing.
00:04:31It was trying to get the content into the right audience.
00:04:35And then also helping to develop content that was social first.
00:04:40And from there I was poached by the New York Times and I helped essentially launch what
00:04:44is now a film and television studio.
00:04:47At the time it was called Times Video.
00:04:49I don't know what it's called now.
00:04:51But they wanted to serialize their video department and start making shows, right?
00:04:56So we developed some cooking shows.
00:04:57We developed some travel shows.
00:04:58We developed some style shows.
00:05:01And then I left to pursue my dream of entrepreneurship.
00:05:06I started a small media company that was kind of like a vice meets box, meets now this news.
00:05:12All companies that...
00:05:13I think Box is the only one that still exists.
00:05:16Box is around still, yes.
00:05:17Good for them.
00:05:18Yes.
00:05:19They're doing well.
00:05:20I think they're doing a lot of podcasts.
00:05:21Yeah.
00:05:22A lot of podcasts.
00:05:23And I think film and TV maybe a little bit.
00:05:24Yeah.
00:05:25They've had a couple shows.
00:05:26But that was like a socially distributed, social first content machine.
00:05:31That's the name of one of my songs as well.
00:05:35And from there, I just had this moment where I realized that...
00:05:40I ran that thing for five years, that company.
00:05:43And I realized that I was not, number one, not a good entrepreneur.
00:05:47Not a good business person, I should say.
00:05:49Good entrepreneur, not a good businessman.
00:05:51Why?
00:05:52In what ways?
00:05:53What were you lacking?
00:05:54There was never a plan.
00:05:56Never ever.
00:05:57Which some might argue is a good businessman in this era of business.
00:06:03So I was always fly by the seat of the pants, moving fast, breaking things, but not breaking
00:06:09them in a good way.
00:06:10So it was always really like run and gun.
00:06:15And I also just was totally playing a role.
00:06:19You know, the way I started the business was by listening to the podcast called Startup
00:06:23about starting a podcast.
00:06:24That's where I learned about term sheets.
00:06:26Yeah.
00:06:27Yeah.
00:06:28That's where I learned about pitching.
00:06:29That's where I learned about literal venture capital.
00:06:30That was the first Gimlet Media that got bought big by Spotify.
00:06:33Yeah.
00:06:34Yeah.
00:06:35But it was a show that was about a guy starting, who's a journalist, starting a podcast company.
00:06:40And so I listened to that and I was like, okay, this is how you start a media company
00:06:43or an entertainment company.
00:06:45And just did exactly what he did.
00:06:46I remember this.
00:06:48And you know, I learned about term sheets, I learned about pitching, I learned about
00:06:52pitch decks.
00:06:53I learned that they should be 10 pages.
00:06:54I learned so much stuff, but my heart wasn't in it.
00:06:58It was really about like trying to make money, which I also failed to do.
00:07:01I don't know if you've heard about the Museum of Pizza.
00:07:04One of my biggest failures, one of my biggest financial failures, where I spent a million
00:07:08dollars and made zero.
00:07:11What was the idea behind that?
00:07:12I just saw the success of like the Museum of Ice Cream and experiential marketing at
00:07:17the time.
00:07:18And I was like, you know, what's the internet's favorite food?
00:07:20Pizza.
00:07:21Threw a website together, sold like $300,000 or $600,000 worth of tickets in 48 hours.
00:07:25And I was like, well, I guess I'm making this thing.
00:07:28But I did it with people, with the tickets sales, which I don't think you're supposed
00:07:32to do.
00:07:33So like if anything had gone wrong, there would be no way to refund the money.
00:07:36That's what I mean by bad businessman.
00:07:38Did you build the museum come to completion?
00:07:41Yeah.
00:07:42Yeah.
00:07:43It happened.
00:07:44But I spent all the money.
00:07:45I mean, seriously.
00:07:46What do you see in someone's pizza?
00:07:47What do you see in the Museum of Pizza?
00:07:48I described it as like the MoMA dedicated to pizza.
00:07:52So whereas the other places were selfie museums or Instagram museums, mine was like literally
00:07:57a museum.
00:07:59So there was the world's largest collection of pizza boxes sourced from all over the world
00:08:03behind glass, like paintings.
00:08:05There was Andrew W.K.'s pizza shaped guitar.
00:08:08And then there was work custom made for the museum by like 20 different artists who are
00:08:14really great artists, like Adam Green, who is the lead singer of the Moldy Peaches, and
00:08:20also an incredible papier-mâché artist built this thing called Pizza Beach, which was like
00:08:26a room bigger than this that was all papier-mâché and it was – I just – this is the brief
00:08:31that I gave him.
00:08:32I was like, Pizza Beach.
00:08:33He goes, sounds good.
00:08:35So it was the MoMA for pizza.
00:08:36There used to be a restaurant in the Upper East Side called Pizza Beach.
00:08:38I don't know if it's connected.
00:08:40I probably accidentally like saw that word and was like, great.
00:08:44How fast did this all come together?
00:08:46You said you sold the tickets with nothing.
00:08:47Like you sold the tickets, you had no physical –
00:08:49I had a website and photos of people.
00:08:53But you had no museum, no – nothing.
00:08:56How fast did you throw this all together?
00:08:58I think we launched the website in March or April and then the museum opened in September.
00:09:05So it was pretty fast.
00:09:06Okay.
00:09:07And it would have been great had it not been for a sheisty landlord who essentially stole
00:09:12$20,000 from me and didn't give me the space and I had to rush and find a whole new space
00:09:19about four or six weeks before the museum was set to be open.
00:09:24And so I essentially had to change the whole plan because it was supposed to be at this
00:09:27other building and there were already plans done, four plans, everything.
00:09:30And then four weeks or six weeks before the museum was supposed to open, we had to get
00:09:34a new building and build the whole thing essentially all over again, which is why I lost all the money.
00:09:39The whole new Pizza Beach.
00:09:40How long did the museum pizza stay alive for?
00:09:42Six weeks.
00:09:43Okay.
00:09:44Yeah.
00:09:45Anyways, that –
00:09:46What did you do with all the pizza boxes?
00:09:49I gave them back to the person that they were on loan from, Scott Wiener.
00:09:52Scott Wiener of Scott's Pizza Tours has the Guinness Book of World Records for largest
00:09:57pizza box collection.
00:09:58I like how that was on loan as if it was like a Rothko.
00:10:01No, that's literally what it was.
00:10:02I looked at them as art.
00:10:03I mean, they were sourced from Japan and Kenya and like Cairo, Egypt and all of these amazing
00:10:09places.
00:10:10So like it was something to look at.
00:10:13It was really cool.
00:10:14It looked like a gallery.
00:10:15It was called the Pizza Gallery.
00:10:16It's a collection.
00:10:17It was a collection.
00:10:18But that project I think was the nail in the coffin for my career in business.
00:10:25I was like, I need to figure out what I actually like and what I'm actually good at because
00:10:31I think like sending emails for the rest of my life is not going to work out for me.
00:10:38And so that was the like the moment that I decided to get in front of the camera.
00:10:44Gotcha.
00:10:45What year was this?
00:10:46That was 2019.
00:10:47Okay.
00:10:49So I want to take a step back for a second because I love how you were doing a lot of
00:10:52this, you know, between Vice, between the New York Times, a lot of new media in 2012,
00:10:59which sounds like it was new media then, but this is ancient stuff compared to now.
00:11:04Like what sort of stuff were you doing back in 2012 and how did that lay the groundwork
00:11:10for what you're doing now?
00:11:11I mean, a lot of it was just like innovating on content strategy and content distribution,
00:11:16like figuring out, like I had this one idea, which was like, we wanted more traffic on
00:11:22our YouTube for Noisy, which was the Vice music channel.
00:11:27And we had an opportunity to work with the IAAs and release the record via Vice Records,
00:11:31which I think doesn't, no longer exists.
00:11:34But I had this idea, which now seems really normal, but like to have a listening party
00:11:39where everyone could listen to the album together via YouTube at the same time when it was released.
00:11:47And I think now YouTube has that functionality, but like at the time we had to build a custom
00:11:51website that like you press play and everyone's listening to the music at the same time with
00:11:57like a chat room next to it.
00:11:58So it was like a virtual listening party.
00:11:59So it's like, we're going to drop this new album at like 9pm on Saturday.
00:12:03And everyone can listen to it at the same time.
00:12:05And so that was like an innovative idea that, you know, no one had really thought of.
00:12:11That was the kind of stuff that I was thinking about.
00:12:13And then also like at the Times, I was the first person to put the Times on Snapchat.
00:12:20And it was like a completely renegade move.
00:12:24Like everyone was like, sure.
00:12:25And so I was, I was like, I did the first report, the first vertical video report.
00:12:30And I wasn't even a journalist, but no one cared at the time that like they were like,
00:12:34whatever, go do whatever you want.
00:12:35What was the topic?
00:12:36It was about this guy, Ryder Ripps, who's an artist.
00:12:39And he was having a, an art gallery in Manhattan, and it was about the internet.
00:12:47And so I went there with my Snapchat, which was my phone at the time.
00:12:51And I just did like a, I hung out with him and I published it on the New York Times Snapchat.
00:12:56And yeah, that was their first, definitely their first foray into vertical video.
00:13:01I also did this thing, which was called the Kickstarter Film Festival, where I curated,
00:13:06again, this was like about audience.
00:13:09So I curated, I think it was 12 films that were made via Kickstarter.
00:13:15And I premiered them on the New York Times YouTube channel.
00:13:18And so Kickstarter promoted our YouTube channel.
00:13:20We promoted the films.
00:13:22And yeah, it was just like an interesting time where it was like the same thing that
00:13:26people do now, which is collaborate, you know, like you, you go on my YouTube channel, I
00:13:30go on yours, podcasting, all that stuff.
00:13:33But it was at an, you know, an organization that was in the midst of the digital transformation.
00:13:39Like this was around the time that I think it was called the, the innovation report.
00:13:43I don't know.
00:13:44Remember that?
00:13:45Or it was like the Times had this thing, which was an internal audit, and that was a big
00:13:49deal.
00:13:50It was.
00:13:51And the whole thing was like, be just like BuzzFeed.
00:13:52That was the, like how they're going to turn the New York Times into BuzzFeed.
00:13:55It was a lot of it.
00:13:57It was very damning.
00:13:58But it was at the same time a wake up call.
00:14:01And I remember we had a meeting with, um, it was, I don't think it was Ted, is his name
00:14:07Ted Sarandos?
00:14:08I'm not sure.
00:14:09The Netflix guy?
00:14:11I think it's Ted Sarandos.
00:14:12I don't think it, but we had a meeting with a Netflix executive, like the whole Times
00:14:16exec team, plus the digital people about how Netflix had to essentially disrupt its own
00:14:22business, stop sending DVDs and go to streaming in order to survive.
00:14:26And so they were there giving us like a pep talk about how the paper needs to not be a
00:14:31paper anymore.
00:14:32Um, but that was, yeah, that was the kind of work I was involved in.
00:14:35Very cool.
00:14:36So you have like this great kind of early aughts grounding or like late, like 2020.
00:14:41The smartphones already come out, but it's a social media and this is like the time when
00:14:45social media was not just your, it was going from being your friends to brands, marketing,
00:14:49media, all that sort of stuff.
00:14:51And then you did the experiential stuff with the museum of pizza and then you decided I'm
00:14:57done with this.
00:14:58Yeah.
00:14:59And it's like I had spent, cause even the SEO stuff was like, I had no idea how the
00:15:05internet worked until I got that job, which was an internship that became a job.
00:15:11And I was like, Oh, all the Google search results are, they're like manipulated in a
00:15:15way, even if they're so-called optimized, like optimization is manipulation to some
00:15:20degree.
00:15:21So understanding how the internet worked from that early, which was like 2008, um, it just
00:15:28was so powerful and allowed me to have a certain perspective that I think a lot of people in
00:15:36media didn't necessarily have, right?
00:15:39Like some people knew what SEO was, but not a lot of people.
00:15:44And they didn't know how it was done, you know?
00:15:46So there, there, there was like so many points in my career where I felt like I was doing
00:15:50the wrong thing, but they all kind of led me to a place where I finally feel like I'm
00:15:56doing the right thing.
00:15:57And all of that information has come in handy and is very useful.
00:16:02It's funny cause you said 2008, that's when I first started interning at Forbes and, you
00:16:06know, Forbes has always been cutting edge, but I was on the magazine side and then we
00:16:10had a firewall and then down the street, there was the.com and the magazine was still just
00:16:14putting the magazine out.
00:16:16And then they would have someone maybe digitize the magazine, but a lot of times they didn't.
00:16:20So like even 2008, people were just thinking in the print state of mind in my division.
00:16:25And then the website side was learning on that stuff, but it was very interesting that
00:16:28we kept it separate for a couple of years and then obviously it's all mashed together
00:16:31now.
00:16:32And would they publish the magazine articles online other than digitizing the magazine?
00:16:35You know, they used to, like when I first started, no.
00:16:39And then they would start picking us like one, like one story, an issue and putting
00:16:44it online.
00:16:45Wow.
00:16:46And then we moved it all together online.
00:16:47But even then it wasn't like WordPress based.
00:16:50It was still like very rigid.
00:16:51Like you were basically publishing it to the web, but you couldn't go in and like change
00:16:55or you had to like have editors change things.
00:16:57It was very, um, very stiff, static and stuff.
00:17:01You know, it's like that was a, that was an era.
00:17:04And then I think in 2012 and 2011 and 2010, there was like the era of like indie blogs
00:17:10almost like docker network and the split cider network.
00:17:14Is that what it was?
00:17:15Or the all network?
00:17:16That's what it was.
00:17:18And they had the voice, like the friend voice, the gossip voice that I think is something
00:17:25that has been totally lost since those publications, you know, are IP'd.
00:17:32Um, fortunately I think those publications that the voices are back, except they're now
00:17:36on sub stack.
00:17:37Yeah.
00:17:38You know what I mean?
00:17:39But like, or they're all on social media or they're in, in podcasts like we're doing.
00:17:42Yeah.
00:17:43Yeah.
00:17:44Like reading a snarky gossipy article about X, Y, Z's Christmas party that was exclusively
00:17:53available on gawker.com.
00:17:54Like there was no other place that you were going to read that article.
00:17:57And now there are like various sub stacks that will publish, like, here's what happened
00:18:01at the New Yorkers Christmas party.
00:18:02I can imagine what Gawker would be doing right now in this, this day and age would be having
00:18:06a lot of fun.
00:18:07Yeah.
00:18:08What did you take me after?
00:18:09When did you start jumping into, you said you're going to start going from CEO to becoming
00:18:14front of the camera.
00:18:16Take me to that.
00:18:17Take me through that.
00:18:18So in 2019 when I had kind of made the decision to put down entrepreneurship, which is funny
00:18:25because I'm still an entrepreneur, just not the businessman, uh, you know, I had all this
00:18:30experience and I was like, you know, there are multiple routes to take.
00:18:34I could go straight to like Hollywood and try to make it as an actor or a writer.
00:18:39Uh, I could go the standup route and like develop an audience in person and then figure
00:18:45out what to do with them.
00:18:46Two very tough routes.
00:18:47Two very tough routes.
00:18:48And then there was just the like, to me, the very obvious route, which was like, get on
00:18:52the internet and do what you do best, except now you're the main attraction and not someone
00:18:57else.
00:18:58And, uh, so I started essentially publishing without really a plan.
00:19:04Um, and it did slowly work, right?
00:19:10Like I did successfully rebrand myself over the course of maybe a year, a year and a half
00:19:15or two from a business guy to a creator or a comedian is what I was going for, which
00:19:23I think I was.
00:19:24And I was still doing standup and stuff, but like in my mind it was like, I need to get
00:19:28the reps in.
00:19:29I took classes at UCB, I graduated from there and did improv sketch and standup at Brooklyn
00:19:35Comedy Collective.
00:19:36Like I did the work of education and then at the same time I started actually performing
00:19:40live and at the same time I did the internet video stuff.
00:19:44I was doing it all at the same time.
00:19:45When did you, were you always a comedian?
00:19:48I was always funny.
00:19:49I was like class clown.
00:19:50Okay.
00:19:51Class clown for sure.
00:19:52But, uh, but yeah, yeah, I was always, I mean, I always seemed like I was funny.
00:19:57I don't know if I would call myself funny, but people find me funny.
00:20:00But in 2019 you're like, I'm going from entrepreneur, like I'm going to die.
00:20:04Like have you did, did you do any comedy before that, like professionally or like workshops
00:20:08or that sort of stuff?
00:20:09I, no, I didn't really do that.
00:20:10I always thought it was kind of corny to do a, to do a improv class so you could get better
00:20:15at making a presentation.
00:20:16What's a corny?
00:20:18To do a comedy class so that you could do like you, you tell you what UCB would say,
00:20:21is it uprising?
00:20:22Yeah.
00:20:23Yeah.
00:20:24No, I think it's cool to do it if you want to be a comic, but they have these corporate
00:20:27sort of like do improv one-on-one so that you're better at doing presentations.
00:20:32I never heard of that.
00:20:34Well, maybe you should take it.
00:20:35I'm just kidding.
00:20:36I probably should.
00:20:37I know a lot of people that should.
00:20:38No, you're great.
00:20:39I know a lot of people that should.
00:20:40No, but they, they take, they take classes so that they can be better at presentations
00:20:43and public speaking.
00:20:44It's a good way to make money for UCB.
00:20:45I'll tell you that.
00:20:46It's a good way.
00:20:47It's true.
00:20:48So what were you doing for money when you're doing this stuff?
00:20:50Because this is like a route for poverty.
00:20:51Yeah.
00:20:52You weren't exactly like 22 out of college.
00:20:54Exactly.
00:20:55And that is why the kind of experience that I had really paid off because at 33 years
00:21:02old, there is nothing worse than telling somebody that you're an aspiring comedian.
00:21:08It's a surefire way to get laughed out of any date, any new friendships, any new acquaintances,
00:21:16probably get laughed out of a restaurant.
00:21:17It's almost like, yeah, I'm working.
00:21:18I'm trying out for the NBA.
00:21:19Exactly.
00:21:20I'm working on my, I'm working on my game.
00:21:22I'm doing, I'm hitting the gym.
00:21:24It's so bad to be a 33 year old aspiring comedian.
00:21:27But I was.
00:21:28Okay.
00:21:30Fortunately, I didn't have to change my lifestyle so much because I had such a good network
00:21:35of people and such good experience that I was able to continue consulting on digital
00:21:41media.
00:21:42Okay.
00:21:43Like I was consulting with digital media companies, regular brands, et cetera.
00:21:47And so like I, I liken it to having a rich parent, but I was the rich parent.
00:21:53I was my own rich parent.
00:21:55You know what I mean?
00:21:56So I had the time and the freedom to experiment and make videos that failed and like do stand
00:22:02up and make new friends and kind of, you know, kick about for a while.
00:22:07But at the same time, I didn't take a severe, I definitely took a pay cut, but not like
00:22:12a tremendous pay cut.
00:22:13Like I didn't have to move out of my apartment.
00:22:16Like I did, like I didn't have to sacrifice much aside from my own money, which I essentially
00:22:22looked at as an investment in myself.
00:22:25So yeah, I was really fortunate to have had the experience working at Vice and The Times
00:22:30and starting my own company because I just was on retainer at a couple of places and
00:22:34then would pick up a couple of random projects every quarter.
00:22:38And it was more than enough for me to be able to like explore this newfound interest.
00:22:43Was it important, do you think, that you could do comedy and experiment and not have to worry
00:22:50about putting food on the table?
00:22:51It was extremely important.
00:22:52Tell me about that.
00:22:53I mean, when you only have to worry about yourself, I've been poor many times.
00:22:59Like you know what I mean?
00:23:00Like I think that is another thing about entrepreneurship is that you're poor three times and rich twice.
00:23:08Like it's up and down and up and down.
00:23:10So I didn't have to worry about my family because I didn't have one yet.
00:23:14And it was okay if I had moments of failure or periods of stagnation.
00:23:20There wasn't that constant stress to feed a family or to pay like an exorbitant mortgage,
00:23:26you know, just my rent and myself.
00:23:29But I think in terms of like real freedom, there's only one other time in my life that
00:23:35I felt that free, both creatively and expression-wise.
00:23:39And it was the first pretty much a year or two that I moved to New York where you have
00:23:44no friends, you have nothing to do, you have all the time in the world.
00:23:48And you know, it's complete blue ocean in front of you.
00:23:53There's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to see, you're just existing.
00:23:57And that's kind of how I felt in those moments of transformation is that I was in no real rush.
00:24:05But also there was a clock ticking in my head that I needed to be successful as quickly
00:24:10as possible.
00:24:11You know what I mean?
00:24:12Like I had to get to a place where I felt confident introducing myself as a comedian
00:24:18and not feeling like a liar.
00:24:21That was honestly a huge motivation for me because I did never say aspiring.
00:24:25I immediately day one was like, I'm a comedian.
00:24:28But in my mind, it was like aspiring, you know, it was like, it was like correcting
00:24:32myself.
00:24:33Don't say that part out loud.
00:24:34Don't say that part out loud.
00:24:35Because again, like also you're not going to get you're not going to get booked on a
00:24:39show as an aspiring comedian.
00:24:41You're either a comedian or not a comedian.
00:24:44For me, it was I did the same thing that I did at work essentially, which is like I identified
00:24:50and it wasn't this strategic and it wasn't like so there wasn't a methodology behind
00:24:54it.
00:24:55But like I identified people that I was inspired by or influenced by or who I just thought
00:25:00had cool kind of like comedy and I became their friends and I tried to create a community
00:25:07around me by launching my own show.
00:25:09So rather than like running around doing open mics, I was like, well, I'll just provide
00:25:14the show and the audience and the comedians will come do my show and and then I'll become
00:25:19friends with them and then they'll invite me to do their show.
00:25:22And that's always been something that I've been good at is kind of like making myself
00:25:27the center of attention.
00:25:28And what were you doing in those early days?
00:25:31What were those shows?
00:25:32What were you posting online?
00:25:33Well, I had a really great live show called Tonight Special, which took place in a diner
00:25:39in Brooklyn called Kellogg's Diner.
00:25:43And that one was a monthly show that was live.
00:25:46But we would sell out every single time.
00:25:47It was like 80 people.
00:25:48You'd rent it out?
00:25:49No, we had a deal.
00:25:50We cut a deal with them.
00:25:51I mean, Irene, the owner was like, I'll rent it out to you guys for $200 a night.
00:25:55And I was like, listen to me, you're gonna make a lot of money if you give me the space
00:26:00for free.
00:26:01Because I didn't want any percentage of the food and beverage.
00:26:04I was like, you give me the space for free.
00:26:06You can keep everything.
00:26:0880 people times 30 bucks a table on a Thursday night is pretty damn good for her.
00:26:16So that show became kind of a cultural institution, even though it was only around for about two
00:26:21years.
00:26:22And then the diner unfortunately closed.
00:26:24But we got press.
00:26:26We got written up about it.
00:26:28It was a good way to start a thing.
00:26:31Would you put these shows online or just live?
00:26:33No, they were just live.
00:26:34And then I also had just my random video clips that I would do all the time.
00:26:40But that was me developing a voice.
00:26:43I was trying to understand what I thought was funny and what kind of content I thought
00:26:48was funny.
00:26:49Right?
00:26:50So it was all over the place constantly.
00:26:51My first kind of effort in creating an actual show or a series was called Stupid Studies.
00:26:59And I was like-
00:27:00You're good with names.
00:27:01Good with titles.
00:27:02Thank you very much.
00:27:03I appreciate that.
00:27:04So I was like, I'm going to be Trevor Noah of TikTok.
00:27:06That was my idea.
00:27:07I was like, there's not a Trevor Noah on TikTok.
00:27:09There should be.
00:27:10I'll do that.
00:27:11So I shot probably like 15 episodes.
00:27:13I actually built a studio in my kitchen at the time.
00:27:17And because I didn't want to have the excuse of like, oh, you know, I'm too lazy.
00:27:21It's like I woke up and my kitchen's right there and I can see the studio.
00:27:24No excuses.
00:27:25No excuses.
00:27:26Instant guilt.
00:27:27It's like right there.
00:27:28Yeah.
00:27:29And so I shot that show by myself.
00:27:30Was it like a variety show?
00:27:31Did like guests come on from TikTok or you just comment like what the old, what is that?
00:27:35The old talk soup when the guy's just commenting on like clips of-
00:27:38It was like the weekend update, but it was one subject and it was one minute.
00:27:43So it would be like, you know, the earth is burning, the ocean's on fire.
00:27:48You know, that's what I did.
00:27:49And then I talk about some silly facts and make some silly jokes and post that online.
00:27:53And here's what I think.
00:27:55I think that show was ahead of its time because at the time no one was making shows on TikTok
00:28:00or Instagram.
00:28:01It was only YouTube that there were shows.
00:28:03So this was the first vertical, maybe not the first ever in the world, but it was early
00:28:10days of like making vertical short form entertainment.
00:28:14And I, and the reason I did it is because I was looking for an idea so that it wouldn't
00:28:19have to wake up every day and say, I got to make a video.
00:28:22What am I going to make it about?
00:28:24This was more like a job.
00:28:25It was an assignment and I'm good at being my own boss.
00:28:28So that's why I built the kitchen, the studio in my kitchen, because I knew if it was there,
00:28:31I would use it.
00:28:32And I think the problem was people didn't know what it was, you know, they didn't understand
00:28:38a social series that was vertically shot in someone's kitchen about the news.
00:28:44I think that idea would totally hit right now.
00:28:47Like I think it would be a great idea.
00:28:48Yeah, now there's all these news influencers and folks that do this stuff.
00:28:51Yeah.
00:28:52And I made it really fun.
00:28:53Like I painted, like it was a whole cardboard painted background.
00:28:57So it looked like a skyline of New York City, but it was made out of like house paint and
00:29:01it like looked like a late night talk show, except it was a cartoon.
00:29:04You know, I had like a big mug, an oversized mug that was also made from cardboard that
00:29:09actually hid the mic underneath.
00:29:11It was just like a crazy thing.
00:29:13There was like a moon hanging from the ceiling.
00:29:15Like it was just, it looked like a play, like a high school play.
00:29:17Yeah, it's creative.
00:29:18Yeah, it was really fun.
00:29:19And that was, but that was a constraint, like a budgetary constraint.
00:29:22What were your, what were your friends and family at this time thinking?
00:29:26Because obviously you were, you know, in cutting edge, you know, high-tech journalism
00:29:30with the Times and Vice, you had your own company and suddenly you have a cardboard
00:29:34moon in your kitchen and you're trying to make it.
00:29:37Yeah.
00:29:38What did, what did they think?
00:29:39I've had a lot of friends tell me that they thought I'd lost my mind.
00:29:42Okay.
00:29:43Yeah.
00:29:44They, which is nice that they're honest.
00:29:45Yes.
00:29:46But they were honest, uh, maybe two years ago when they said, I'm going to be honest
00:29:51with you.
00:29:52I thought you'd lost your mind.
00:29:53Ah, in hindsight.
00:29:54Yeah.
00:29:55They never said like, there was no intervention.
00:29:56There was no intervention.
00:29:57No one came, you didn't come into your kitchen.
00:29:58All your friends were sitting there with, in, in, with the cardboard.
00:30:00No, but they were definitely talking shit.
00:30:02Yeah.
00:30:03You know what I mean?
00:30:04Like the group chat was probably like, what's he doing?
00:30:06You know, or this is so cringe, which it was cringe, but I also didn't care.
00:30:10I was like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do until it becomes good.
00:30:14Had to put in the reps.
00:30:16Uh, and my mom was the one that was like, if you say so, that's what she said.
00:30:23If you say so, you know, cause it's like, I'm leaving the times I'm leaving vice.
00:30:27I'm leaving entrepreneur.
00:30:29I'm leaving my business, which like I said, I ran for five years successfully, financially
00:30:34successful.
00:30:35Yeah.
00:30:36Uh, and she was like, okay, but no one stepped in and said, don't do this.
00:30:42And I think the other side of the coin is that I had a lot of friends that said, cause
00:30:48I was like, I'm going to be, I'm going to become famous.
00:30:50Like that's my plan.
00:30:51I literally remember calling someone saying, I'm going to become talent.
00:30:55They're like, what are you doing?
00:30:56I was like, I'm going to become talent.
00:30:57Like that's my new mission is to become talent.
00:30:59That's it.
00:31:00Okay.
00:31:01Because I realized like I didn't want to send emails every day.
00:31:03What I realized is that talent has a very fun job.
00:31:06Like you get to be talent.
00:31:07Yeah.
00:31:08It's great.
00:31:09You get to do new things.
00:31:10You get to experience new things.
00:31:11You're on set.
00:31:12Like you're on a podcast, you're doing this, you're doing that.
00:31:13You're not in the office.
00:31:14I'm definitely sending a lot of emails still, but I also have other people that send emails
00:31:17on my behalf.
00:31:18Yeah.
00:31:19You're not on the Excel sheet all day doing that stuff.
00:31:21I'm not doing any of that.
00:31:22Like I check my email, but I don't have to send as many emails and it's not emailing
00:31:25for a living.
00:31:27It's emailing so I can get to a place where I make a living.
00:31:31But I had a lot of friends that also said, if anyone can do it, it's you.
00:31:36So I don't know if that was encouragement or just them being nice, but there were a
00:31:40lot of people, especially my closest friends who are not comedians or not, you know, that
00:31:45had just known me for a long time.
00:31:48They had seen me reinvent myself so many times that they were like, yeah, yeah, you'll
00:31:53do it.
00:31:54You know, they were like, we believe that you will do it.
00:31:59You mentioned in the beginning it was cringe.
00:32:02You had to get your reps in.
00:32:03What did you learn through that experience?
00:32:05Like what did the, when you were honing it and practicing it, what good habits did you
00:32:11pick up?
00:32:12What bad habits did you drop?
00:32:14This is like a movie montage.
00:32:16Take me to like Kareem learning on how to like be talented.
00:32:19Yeah.
00:32:20I don't think that there's anything that I would have done differently.
00:32:23I think that the lessons are like, move fast.
00:32:27Like don't be afraid to experiment.
00:32:29Keep going.
00:32:30Consistency is key.
00:32:32Like don't give up.
00:32:33You know, eventually like Seth Rogen has a thing where he talks about like how all the
00:32:37people that want to be actors and then quit.
00:32:41Like he's pretty much like anyone can be an actor eventually.
00:32:45You just have to be at the right place at the right time.
00:32:48And most people, they quit right before, like right before their big break or their medium
00:32:54break or their small break.
00:32:56But he's talked about how if you stay in it long enough and you're good enough, something
00:33:00is bound to happen.
00:33:02So I think that's something that people, like I didn't expect it to happen fast.
00:33:06I was like, I'm in this for the long run.
00:33:09What I will commit to is jamming 10 years of work into five years.
00:33:14That was honestly what I was going to do and that's what I did.
00:33:20But I wouldn't take anything, I wouldn't do anything differently because the biggest lesson
00:33:26is that even if it's cringe, even if it's bad, that somebody will eventually take it
00:33:32seriously or truly identify with it to the point where they like want to work with you.
00:33:38And so that happened to me when this guy in New York, Nico, who's like, at the time was
00:33:43like my Martin Scorsese, DM to me and he was like, hey, I think your comedy is really funny.
00:33:48I have an idea for a movie.
00:33:49Would you be willing to write it?
00:33:52I didn't know how to write movies, but I did the same thing that I always do, said yes,
00:33:57and wrote a script, sent it to him 72 hours later.
00:33:59I think that's also a big thing that people need to understand is that the secret to doing
00:34:03things is doing them.
00:34:04The secret to working is working.
00:34:07And so when he came to me and said, like, do you know how to write scripts?
00:34:10Can you write one?
00:34:11I didn't say, yeah, man, I'll send you a script.
00:34:13I said, sounds good.
00:34:14I'll send you a script in 72 hours.
00:34:16And then I did it and followed through.
00:34:19And but my point is that maybe 25,000 people were following me at the time and maybe 25,000
00:34:27of them thought that I was cringy and were following me because they hated me.
00:34:31But at least one person was like, I actually like this.
00:34:34And that one person turns out to be someone semi-important and who has since become a
00:34:39very close friend.
00:34:40But we ended up making the movie together.
00:34:41Wait, I'm gonna go back to this.
00:34:44You had never written a script.
00:34:45Did you have, did he give you an idea or did he say write a movie and did you like, did
00:34:51you like do a crash course or like read a book or just did it?
00:34:54Like I want to hear, but this is, you know, most people spend years on this stuff.
00:34:57So I had a very amateur experience writing scripts, AKA I wrote sketches sometimes.
00:35:06Like I'd written one page sketches and I learned how to do that at UCB.
00:35:10So I knew the general structure of what a sketch should look like.
00:35:15But I'm saying this as like, I knew what it should look like.
00:35:17Do you know what I mean?
00:35:18Like I didn't know what it should, like I knew what it physically should look like.
00:35:22Like it should say INT.
00:35:24Which stands for interior.
00:35:25Like I knew what it looked like, but I didn't really know anything about film structure
00:35:29or like film writing or character development.
00:35:32And he came to me with a presence.
00:35:33He was like, I really want to, I really want to make a movie about a guy who has to take
00:35:37a shit before a very big date.
00:35:39And I go, okay, that makes sense.
00:35:41That was your guidance.
00:35:42That was my guidance.
00:35:43How long was the movie supposed to be?
00:35:46Short.
00:35:47It was a short, but it ended up being the longest short.
00:35:49It's like 30 minutes.
00:35:50Okay.
00:35:51I don't think we get to stretch it out to 90.
00:35:54It's a good movie.
00:35:55It's a good piece of order.
00:35:56It's available on YouTube.
00:35:58But I remember I watched, like right after I got the brief, which is a movie about a
00:36:04guy who takes a shit before a big date.
00:36:06A very brief brief.
00:36:07And can't find a bathroom.
00:36:08Okay.
00:36:09That's the whole crux of it.
00:36:11I watched this movie called After Hours, which was directed by Martin Scorsese, essentially
00:36:17about a guy who's from uptown and he kind of gets stuck downtown and he has this crazy
00:36:23night where he's trying to get home, back uptown, but like all of these things keep
00:36:27happening.
00:36:28Eventually he gets framed for murder.
00:36:30Like it's crazy.
00:36:31And I was like, okay, my movie is similar to that movie, except it takes place during
00:36:35the day and the stakes are a little bit lower.
00:36:37But I watched that movie and I essentially condensed that idea into something that was
00:36:4330 pages.
00:36:45And also I had the idea to cast people from the Nicoverse, from New York Nico's like
00:36:50Instagram channel.
00:36:52So the writing became a lot easier because I just went on his page and I go, oh, who's
00:36:55this guy?
00:36:56Okay.
00:36:57He's interesting.
00:36:58Maybe he can be the guy that spills a coffee on me at the coffee shop.
00:36:59Oh, who's this guy?
00:37:00Oh, he seems interesting.
00:37:01Maybe he can be like the, you know, the guardian angel who like sends me on the right path.
00:37:07So the writing became a lot easier through that.
00:37:10But yeah, I didn't, I didn't really know anything about script writing.
00:37:13I didn't even watch any YouTube videos, which is what, that's the advice I would give to
00:37:17someone right now is like, if you want to write a script, watch a YouTube video.
00:37:22That works.
00:37:23What was your...
00:37:24So that was obviously a big break for you in the entertainment world.
00:37:27What was...
00:37:28It was my first break.
00:37:29First break.
00:37:30What was your big break as, you know, in front of the camera talent on social media?
00:37:34Well, after I, after I wrote that movie and produced it at the, like the final hours,
00:37:40Nico was like, I think you should play the guy.
00:37:42So I was also in that movie.
00:37:43So that's the first time I felt like something was happening because I got recognized a few
00:37:48times.
00:37:49They were like, oh, you're the guy from Nico's movie, which was really cool.
00:37:52But the first, I would say my actual big break, or at least my medium break.
00:37:58That's what we'll go with.
00:37:59Medium break.
00:38:00So the movie was the small break.
00:38:01Okay.
00:38:02The keep the meter running was my medium break, which again, was an idea for a series or show
00:38:08on Tik Tok that I had had in my pocket for a long time.
00:38:14And it was essentially to hang out with cab drivers and do whatever they wanted to do
00:38:18for the day.
00:38:19And my friend Adam was like, I'll produce that for you.
00:38:22I said, sounds good.
00:38:23So we went out and on, you know, on day one, we went out without a plan.
00:38:28We had two cameramen, Adam was one of them and we held a cab and he said no.
00:38:33And then we held another cab and he said, no, we held another cab and he said no.
00:38:35And we did that about 20 times.
00:38:37I think we actually moved from Brooklyn to Manhattan to get a cab because we were failing.
00:38:42It was rainy.
00:38:43I was like, I don't know if this is going to work.
00:38:45I think that this is a bad idea now.
00:38:48But then some guy said yes.
00:38:50And the minute I got in the car, I said, take me to your favorite place and keep the meter
00:38:54running, which was off the cuff.
00:38:57And then while we were shooting the episode, I had this moment where I was like, I think
00:39:01that this is going to be a huge hit.
00:39:05It's like reverse taxicab confessions for all you 90s kids out there.
00:39:09HBO.
00:39:10Have you seen it?
00:39:11Uh-uh.
00:39:12Still haven't seen it.
00:39:13I know it takes place in a cab.
00:39:14Okay.
00:39:15But I thought it was a game show.
00:39:17No.
00:39:18This was different.
00:39:19This was where like, this was like they had like a cab driver was like a documentarian
00:39:23and they had like a camera and they had, they would just basically pick up people that are
00:39:27all like, it was HBO in the 90s.
00:39:29So they were either like super like messed up on drugs or they were like very alternative
00:39:34and like giving them like, they start like giving, it was like a confessional.
00:39:37It was like a taxicab confessions.
00:39:40It was like being in like, you know, and then talk about their stories, but they only probably
00:39:44just aired the crazy ones.
00:39:46So instead of the, your one is a taxi driver telling the story.
00:39:51This was the writer.
00:39:52Yeah.
00:39:53Yeah.
00:39:54That's cool.
00:39:55I should probably watch an episode.
00:39:57I have this thing where I don't watch it with the exception of after hours.
00:40:01I don't because I didn't know what I was doing.
00:40:02I don't really have references like when I make things, I try not to make a mood board
00:40:10or have references.
00:40:11Just from your own head.
00:40:12Yeah.
00:40:13I try not to like be like, Oh, it's like this, but this, you know, it's the, it's the old
00:40:17startup problem of like, it's, it's Uber for dog walkers.
00:40:20I don't want to do that.
00:40:21So I don't really do that at all.
00:40:25But that, you know, that thing we put up the episode, I turned my phone off cause I was
00:40:30like, I can't deal with another failure.
00:40:32Literally.
00:40:33I was like, I don't want to watch it.
00:40:34Like I don't want to watch it flop.
00:40:36And then Adam's texting me like a hundred thousand views.
00:40:3910 minutes later, 400,000 views an hour later, a 600,000 views.
00:40:44And then the next morning, 2 million views.
00:40:46And I was like, Holy shit, that actually worked.
00:40:48And you're just throwing this up on YouTube on a tick tock on tick tock.
00:40:52Yeah.
00:40:53I didn't even put it on YouTube or Instagram at the time.
00:40:55I was just like focused on tick tock.
00:40:58And the way, the reason I realized, the way I realized it was really a hit is when I went
00:41:05to the bodega that day, the day after the video came out and the bodega guy recognized
00:41:10me from the video.
00:41:12And I go, wow, that, I mean, cause that's the audience.
00:41:17Like real people are the audience.
00:41:19You're bodega famous.
00:41:20That's a big deal.
00:41:21Bodega famous, taxi famous, street famous.
00:41:24That's the people.
00:41:25Like I'm not making a show so that my peers can watch the show.
00:41:30I'm making a show because I want people to watch the show, normal, good people.
00:41:36And when the bodega guy recognized me, I was like, this is a big deal.
00:41:41What do you think about, what was it with that video that took off?
00:41:45I mean, I just think it was a novel concept.
00:41:46No one had ever seen it before.
00:41:48Everyone has, it's a universal experience.
00:41:51Everyone's taking a cab.
00:41:52It's a universal experience that you've had a moment with a cab driver, whether that's
00:41:56a good moment or a bad moment.
00:41:58Most of them are good.
00:41:59Honestly, so many stories pour in being like, I met this taxi driver in Austin.
00:42:03Oh, you know, I was in Pakistan and this taxi driver took me to the best food, blah, blah,
00:42:07blah.
00:42:08Like it's a universal experience.
00:42:09And it was just so like mundane, you know, when the internet is so like interface, like
00:42:20Mr. Beast, who does his thing and he does it really well.
00:42:24But I didn't end the episode with like, and now I'm going to pay off your mortgage.
00:42:28Like it was literally just like, tell me your story.
00:42:30Cool, interesting.
00:42:32You know, let's go eat some food, blah, blah, blah.
00:42:34And there were funny moments in it, but it wasn't about the theatrics of like solving
00:42:39his world problems or like, you know, you know, impressing the audience with fireworks.
00:42:44Like it was just a thing.
00:42:46And I think that is what like, it felt relatable.
00:42:51And I think not in the relatable way, like we need to make relatable content that you
00:42:54see on a brand's deck for ideas.
00:42:58Yeah, you're not pandering.
00:42:59Yeah, it just was.
00:43:00And you're not trying to be the hero either.
00:43:02You just want to hear a story.
00:43:03You're listening.
00:43:04I just want to be around.
00:43:06And that show was the, that is what I would say like, and then there was a Vanity Fair
00:43:10article based on that.
00:43:12That was my first real press that I felt really proud of.
00:43:15On one video?
00:43:16No, we had done like, I think at four at that point.
00:43:19But that's not a lot.
00:43:20No.
00:43:21You know, and but we also we got Vanity Fair, we got Insider, we got, I don't remember,
00:43:26the New York Post, we got like a lot of good press.
00:43:31And I think that was the first time in my life that I felt validated and recognized
00:43:38as a comedian.
00:43:40You know, it finally had happened.
00:43:42Like, of course, being in Tribeca was like a, you know, there was no award, but I felt
00:43:47like I had an Oscar.
00:43:49But then being recognized by the press is, I think, another step towards essentially
00:43:56manifesting a reality.
00:43:58Because you're not saying you're a comedian.
00:44:00The headline says you're a comedian, which I think a lot of people would say, like, you
00:44:05don't need validation from anyone.
00:44:06Personally, I do.
00:44:08Like that's my own personal problem.
00:44:09Yeah, you can drop the actual, you're not an actual comedian.
00:44:11No, aspiring.
00:44:13Yeah, turn from aspiring to actual.
00:44:15Yeah, because it said this New York comedian spent $4,000 on caps or whatever.
00:44:20And I'm like, yes, you know.
00:44:23And then the Vanity Fair article compared me to Anthony Bourdain, which was really amazing.
00:44:27So that was the moment where I was like, you know, I felt like I made it.
00:44:33At least I made it to the other side.
00:44:36You know what I mean?
00:44:37I felt like I had completed the metamorphosis.
00:44:40Of course, the money wasn't there.
00:44:42Of course, like, there was still a long way to go, but it felt like the metamorphosis
00:44:46was complete.
00:44:47And I felt really whole.
00:44:49And that's honestly when I feel like I stepped into the life that I've always wanted, but
00:44:55had suppressed for so long, because I was in pursuit of money, literally.
00:45:00Because at the time, like when I was an entrepreneur and a businessman, I wasn't even in pursuit
00:45:04of validation or recognition.
00:45:06I was simply in pursuit of money.
00:45:11But this is the first time that I felt like I found what I'm looking for, and I found
00:45:16what I'm looking to do.
00:45:19And I felt like I could do it probably for the rest of my life if I wanted to.
00:45:23How does that compare, again, that validation in the press as a comedian versus like your
00:45:27biggest payday as an entrepreneur?
00:45:31You know, money's nice.
00:45:34There was never a big payday as an entrepreneur.
00:45:37I'm sure if I had made $2 million or something, which is not even that much money anymore,
00:45:43it's a lot of money.
00:45:45But it's not.
00:45:46These days, in these times, it's a modest living.
00:45:50It's like a carton of eggs.
00:45:51Yeah, yeah.
00:45:52That's how much it costs, $2 million for 24, Costco.
00:45:55But I don't know.
00:45:58In terms of validation, I think the press is still more important.
00:46:03The money is great.
00:46:04I would love both.
00:46:06Love it.
00:46:07So now you're an actual comedian.
00:46:08And what did you start doing?
00:46:09Did that change your content?
00:46:11Did that change how you're doing things?
00:46:12Or did you keep on doing the Taxi Cab series?
00:46:17At that point, I leaned into...
00:46:19Keep the Meter Running.
00:46:20That was called, right?
00:46:21Yeah, yeah.
00:46:22I kept on Keeping the Meter Running for about 20 episodes.
00:46:25And realized that, you know, the next step of that show specifically is to do long form.
00:46:34And I didn't know how I wanted to do long form.
00:46:36I didn't know if I wanted to be on TV.
00:46:37I didn't know if I wanted to be on YouTube.
00:46:39I didn't know if I wanted to be some sort of hybrid.
00:46:42But I was like, the short form is great.
00:46:44But one of the questions that was always on those videos is, where can I watch the full thing?
00:46:49Like, there is no full thing.
00:46:51This is it.
00:46:52You're set.
00:46:53Yeah, exactly.
00:46:54And so I also was like, there should be a full thing.
00:46:58Like, this does feel a little bit incomplete.
00:47:01So I was like, I'm going to put this on ice for a second and develop it into a long form
00:47:07series and figure out, you know, whether it lives on TV or whether it lives on YouTube.
00:47:11I'm not sure yet.
00:47:12And also the show was getting expensive.
00:47:14I mean, it costs like two to three K per episode.
00:47:18Thank God I was a consultant, because I was able to waste that money.
00:47:20Yeah, and you weren't making money on TikTok or not much money.
00:47:23No, no, I wasn't making any money.
00:47:25So everything was essentially self-funded and subsidized by Kareem Rahma Inc.
00:47:30You were taking some very expensive cab rides.
00:47:32I mean, I was literally paying whatever the meter was.
00:47:34Sometimes it was $700.
00:47:35But I was like, this is not a sustainable business model, but I have a proven format.
00:47:42I have a great idea.
00:47:44I can pick this up.
00:47:45I'm the guy.
00:47:46You can try to replicate it, but I'm the guy.
00:47:48You know what I mean?
00:47:50But then at the same time, I was like, I do believe that this is the right path.
00:47:56Like short form, unscripted, vertical video content is for me.
00:48:00That is what I'm good at.
00:48:02And I love saying unscripted, short form, vertical video content.
00:48:06It's quite, it's a tongue twister.
00:48:07I just think it's really funny to say.
00:48:09It's like a vocal warmup.
00:48:10Gets you going.
00:48:11People are like, what do you do for a living?
00:48:12I'm like, I make unscripted, short form, viral video content, vertical video.
00:48:16Like, I like saying it.
00:48:17I think it's hilarious.
00:48:19But I was like, that is the future of, I think, entertainment as a whole.
00:48:24And then I was like, I need to figure out how to make something that is like
00:48:30Keep the Meter Running, but is more scalable.
00:48:33Yeah.
00:48:34Where I can actually keep the meter running without breaking the bank.
00:48:39With no meter.
00:48:40Hence the Subway.
00:48:40Was no meter.
00:48:41$1.50, you can go all over the city.
00:48:44It's free for me.
00:48:45Free.
00:48:45Just jump it.
00:48:45MTA, I hope you're not listening.
00:48:46You just jump the turnstile.
00:48:48I can't jump it.
00:48:49I take the exit door.
00:48:50You know, the fire door.
00:48:51You got to hustle.
00:48:52Emergency door.
00:48:54And that is funny, because I actually didn't want to make that show at all.
00:49:00I was like, I don't want to do another.
00:49:01Like, I knew it was the way, but I was also like, why am I not a movie star?
00:49:08Like, I did Keep the Meter Running.
00:49:09I should be a movie star.
00:49:10You did it.
00:49:11You did the bathroom joke movie, and then the cabs.
00:49:14Yeah, when Stevensville were going to move in.
00:49:16You're moving up the ladder.
00:49:17I was waiting for the real Martin Scorsese to call.
00:49:20He didn't call.
00:49:21So at the time, I had been kind of dabbling
00:49:26in premium podcast, scripted and unscripted.
00:49:32And I was thinking about premium podcasting,
00:49:34because it was like, I think it was like 2021, 2022.
00:49:39And there was a moment in time where, like, premium podcasts
00:49:42were the soup du jour.
00:49:45It was like the pivot to video.
00:49:47And me and my friend Andrew, who's the co-founder, co-creator of Subway Takes,
00:49:55we had spent a lot of money trying to develop and produce premium podcasts.
00:50:00And we had done some good projects, but we'd also spent all the money.
00:50:05Now, were these like one-off, were they interview shows,
00:50:08or were they almost like a serial, or like a storytelling sort of thing?
00:50:12I mean, they were all storytelling, but was it interviews,
00:50:14or was it like a mini series?
00:50:15There was one interview series which I hosted,
00:50:17but it was sound designed to sound like a cartoon.
00:50:20There was a lot of music, there were sound effects.
00:50:23And the premise was that I would tell guests stories,
00:50:26and they would keep interrupting me.
00:50:28And I kept trying to finish the story.
00:50:31But there was all these cartoony elements to it.
00:50:34And then there was a couple of other shows that never made it to air.
00:50:37I think we did one project that we sold to another media company,
00:50:42and we produced it for them.
00:50:44And then there was one project that we aired featuring me.
00:50:46And then there were like four or five projects that were in development,
00:50:49but never made it out.
00:50:52We had like $10,000 left in our bank account.
00:50:56And we were like, let's just do the opposite of what we've been doing.
00:51:00We were making premium, long-form, scripted, mostly podcasts.
00:51:05We're like, what is the exact opposite of that?
00:51:07And it's like, OK, the shortest podcast that has no audio version,
00:51:12it's only video, let's call it a podcast,
00:51:14even though it's only distributed on TikTok and Instagram.
00:51:17And there's no long-form.
00:51:18And it's the opposite of premium.
00:51:20It's super raw, super unfiltered, super uncut.
00:51:24And I had the idea to do a show about takes.
00:51:29And I was like, that's the basic idea, is I just ask people,
00:51:32what's your take?
00:51:33And my friend Andrew, business partner Andrew,
00:51:35said, what if we did it on the subway?
00:51:37Like, Keep the Meter Running was really successful.
00:51:38Maybe you'll have good luck on the subway as well.
00:51:41You know what?
00:51:42We don't have money for a studio, so sounds good to me.
00:51:46And so we went out there, and we did it.
00:51:48And in that first few episodes, I started saying 100% agree,
00:51:53100% disagree, which was not a part of the plan until I did the show.
00:51:59I also did the MetroCard mic literally the day
00:52:02before we shot the first episode.
00:52:04Or no, the hour before.
00:52:05We were standing at the train station being like,
00:52:08what do we put the mic on?
00:52:09I was like, I don't want to use the tiny mic.
00:52:11Like, everyone's using the tiny mic.
00:52:12So we just threw it on the MetroCard.
00:52:14I love that, because that goes back to when
00:52:16you said that you used to have the cardboard mug to hide the mic.
00:52:19That's like the seed that plant.
00:52:21Like, that is very similar to the, you know, whatever, five years later,
00:52:25because you had the MetroCard mics.
00:52:26I never thought that.
00:52:27But thank you for noticing something about my story.
00:52:30My contribution for the day.
00:52:31There we go.
00:52:31There we go.
00:52:33Yeah, but there were so much magic that occurred on that first day.
00:52:37And I'm going to release a trailer for Subway Takes, which I don't advise.
00:52:42And I don't think they work.
00:52:44I think the trailer is a stupid idea.
00:52:46It's a waste of time.
00:52:47But I was like, again, I'm going to do everything
00:52:49the opposite of what I would do.
00:52:51Because we were releasing a trailer.
00:52:53You did the George Costanza.
00:52:54You should do the opposite.
00:52:55That's what I did.
00:52:56I did the opposite.
00:52:58And then the trailer got a million views.
00:52:59And I was like, oh my god, what is happening?
00:53:03And then the first episode, you know, it took a while.
00:53:07I remember me and Andrew were texting.
00:53:09We were like, well, didn't work.
00:53:10Time to close the doors.
00:53:12Like, we failed.
00:53:13And then it got like 400,000 views after like three days.
00:53:17And then I posted the second episode again and again and again.
00:53:21And it kept going.
00:53:22And I was like, all right, we got a hit.
00:53:25And I just have never felt so lucky to have two back-to-back massive hits.
00:53:31You know, it's hard to replicate success.
00:53:33Sophomore slump, as they call it.
00:53:36So I didn't have the sophomore slump.
00:53:38But I may have a junior slump if I decide to launch a new show.
00:53:41You got to give it a shot.
00:53:44Yeah.
00:53:44I love this story because, I mean, people might be like, oh, this guy,
00:53:49he had a great idea.
00:53:49Like, go interview people on the subway.
00:53:51But I love how it was the product of trying all these other things
00:53:57and going from the super high to not low, but super high production
00:54:02to like, let's just put a mic on the subway,
00:54:05jump the turnstile, or go through the exit door and go.
00:54:08I love it.
00:54:09It looks like an overnight success, but you spent five years
00:54:12making the steps to get to this spot.
00:54:14And also, I remember I bought the cameras.
00:54:19And I was like, I might never.
00:54:21I was like, I bought them on a credit card, $14,000 for both the cameras.
00:54:25And I was like, I put it on a credit card,
00:54:27and I felt so bad because I was like, what if I don't use them?
00:54:32And then I was like, you know what?
00:54:34I'll sell them, or I'll return them, or whatever.
00:54:36And without those cameras, I don't think I would have done Subway Takes.
00:54:40I had bought those cameras to do Keep the Meter Running.
00:54:42And because I had the equipment, because I bet on myself,
00:54:46again, because I invested in myself, because I was my own rich parent
00:54:50and could at least put them on a credit card,
00:54:53knowing that it wouldn't be the end of it, at least I had credit.
00:54:56Knowing that I had credit, that I was able to make that show
00:55:00without having to have the hassle and headache of renting equipment
00:55:05or asking people to borrow their equipment.
00:55:07I was like, I'll take these cameras that I bought and put them to good use.
00:55:11And honestly, that's a huge thing, because we may have not
00:55:15had enough money to do that.
00:55:17But I had the cameras.
00:55:18So that's another big part of it, is I had bet on myself so many times
00:55:22that I accumulated so much junk that was useful.
00:55:28Junk knowledge, junk information, junk intangibles,
00:55:32that's a lot of stuff, too, is the intangibles.
00:55:35Saying 100% agree or 100% disagree was not a part of the plan.
00:55:39It is just what came out of me.
00:55:41And so when I talk to other creators or aspiring creators or people
00:55:46who want to be media entrepreneurs, I encourage
00:55:49them to stop overthinking, to develop the idea 80% of the way,
00:55:55and to let the actual magic happen in the shoot.
00:56:00Because you're going to discover a lot of new things while you're shooting.
00:56:04And keep the meter running.
00:56:06Same thing with the food.
00:56:07I didn't think it was going to be a food show.
00:56:09All of a sudden, it became a food show, because the drivers
00:56:11let it be a food show.
00:56:13And that is something that I think a lot of people struggle with,
00:56:16is not taking the first step.
00:56:18And I'm like, you don't have to have a 100% baked idea.
00:56:21You have to have a good premise and maybe 80% of an idea to make it great.
00:56:27Now, take me, what is the current state of your media?
00:56:32Day in the life, are you focused on the subway takes?
00:56:36So right now, keep the meter running.
00:56:38Still in development and getting closer.
00:56:40I just want to do it right.
00:56:42That project is so heartfelt to me.
00:56:45And so it holds a very important piece of my heart.
00:56:49And I just want to get it right.
00:56:50So I'm doing the opposite of what I always do, which is move fast,
00:56:55hoping that on this one, moving slow will be the right move.
00:56:59So my day, I just have a movie that's coming out, a feature film
00:57:05that I wrote, produced, and starred in.
00:57:07Come on, plug it, man.
00:57:08It's called Or Something.
00:57:09It'll be out soon at a theater near you.
00:57:13So that movie, I'm doing all the work of promoting it and screening it
00:57:19and doing the Q&As and setting up all this promotional material.
00:57:24And then subway takes is the core of my current career.
00:57:30That's what I focus on most of the day.
00:57:32And it's because two things.
00:57:35One, I have a goal to hit a million followers before May.
00:57:38So I'm publishing six to seven times a week.
00:57:40Well, now that you're on my show, you're going to hit it.
00:57:42You're going to blow through it.
00:57:43This is it?
00:57:44This is it for me?
00:57:44Rocket ship.
00:57:45I hope so.
00:57:46Yeah.
00:57:47It's slow and steady, man.
00:57:48Slow and steady.
00:57:50Every day.
00:57:50But I doubled the production.
00:57:52I started at two.
00:57:52Then I went to four.
00:57:53Then I went to six.
00:57:55Six?
00:57:55Six episodes a week, yeah.
00:57:58How long are you down underground for that?
00:58:02I'd say I'm usually underground for three to four hours at a time.
00:58:06Do people, how many, I know they're all great.
00:58:10How many of those, how many swings do you
00:58:12have to get to get a person that you're going to air?
00:58:14Is it like, are you interviewing like 100 people hoping one is good?
00:58:18Or do you?
00:58:18I don't interview strangers.
00:58:21Tell me how this works.
00:58:22I want to hear about this production.
00:58:23I can't tell you how it works.
00:58:24That's just magic.
00:58:25I mean, I know you have, obviously, you've had some celebrity cameos.
00:58:28Obviously, you're not running against them in the subway.
00:58:30But are they still?
00:58:32There's no strangers on the show.
00:58:33Are they all friends?
00:58:34I would consider them friends.
00:58:36Friends, friends of friends, friends of friends of friends.
00:58:38They're all people I know in some capacity,
00:58:41whether it's immediate know or know through someone else.
00:58:45Because again, efficiency.
00:58:48Like, I've allowed strangers to do it when they interrupt me and say,
00:58:52can I please be on the show?
00:58:53I say, sure, come on over.
00:58:55And they don't have takes.
00:58:57No.
00:58:58Everybody wants to be on the show.
00:59:00No one has a take.
00:59:01They're just angry, bigotry people.
00:59:05No, it's not even that.
00:59:07They just literally freeze.
00:59:09They just have nothing to say.
00:59:11I go, what's your take?
00:59:12And they go, mm, uh, you know.
00:59:14And I go, you wanted to be on the show.
00:59:16And they go, oh, yeah, but I didn't know.
00:59:19I didn't know what my take is going to be.
00:59:21So it's like, yeah.
00:59:24So they're all, you know, I've pretty much
00:59:26published every video aside from like two.
00:59:28There's like two that I haven't published.
00:59:32And my goal is to hit a million followers on TikTok and Instagram.
00:59:35And then I'll feel like I have built a moat around the format and the page.
00:59:41Because I've done it.
00:59:44It's not that easy to get to a million.
00:59:47Like six videos a week for two years.
00:59:52Good luck to anyone who wants to try.
00:59:54You know, like it takes a specific kind of psychopath
00:59:58like myself to do something like that and many others.
01:00:03But you know, because I want to entertain myself,
01:00:06because at the core of all of this is me entertaining Kareem,
01:00:09I've now decided to do the masochistic endeavor
01:00:13of producing a longer form show called Subway Takes Uncut,
01:00:17which is the same show you know and love, except long.
01:00:20So now we are airing, you know, episodes.
01:00:23We've done John C. Reilly.
01:00:24We did Jane Goodall.
01:00:26Cate Blanchett comes out soon.
01:00:27Hasan Minhaj, A$AP Ferg, and more.
01:00:31And those conversations are like 20 to 30 minutes on the subway.
01:00:35And it's more of a podcast and less of a short podcast.
01:00:40How have you gotten these?
01:00:42I mean, again, like you do a great job with like people you know.
01:00:45And you know, I didn't realize.
01:00:46I mean, everyone's very fun and eloquent.
01:00:48So I'm sure like that's not random.
01:00:50But like you got Cate Blanchett who's like, you know, an Oscar,
01:00:54obviously famous actress, two-time Oscar.
01:00:57How did that come to be?
01:00:59So we have an overwhelming amount of pitches happening inbound.
01:01:04I've never pitched anyone to be on the show.
01:01:07We made a decision early on that the show was not
01:01:11to be a talent-driven vehicle.
01:01:14It was more about Kareem and more about the format itself rather
01:01:17than like the show is popular because celebrities are on it.
01:01:21Because I think that Hollywood approach of like, cool,
01:01:24put Will Smith in it, like doesn't work.
01:01:27Like there are so many shows hosted by A-listers
01:01:31that no one's heard of or watched.
01:01:33And they're all failures.
01:01:34And they're so expensive for no fucking reason.
01:01:37And so I was like.
01:01:39Like Prince Harry.
01:01:40Yeah, what?
01:01:41I've never seen that show.
01:01:42Is it like the Prince Harry and Markle show?
01:01:44It's a whole like production company
01:01:46of them doing different things.
01:01:48But I don't watch it.
01:01:49I just read the nasty headlines.
01:01:51Do some people like that one though?
01:01:52I don't know.
01:01:52Or some people are maybe watching it?
01:01:53There's a lot of like snarky headlines.
01:01:55Okay.
01:01:55Like Daily Mail and stuff.
01:01:56That's because it probably sucks.
01:01:57I wouldn't have either of them on the show.
01:02:00But I think, yeah, it was like, again, it was like, oh,
01:02:04Holly was doing this.
01:02:05It's not working.
01:02:06I'm going to do the exact opposite.
01:02:07I'm not going to have any celebrities on the show.
01:02:09So we didn't have any celebrities on the show
01:02:10for like the first 100 episodes.
01:02:12Until a friend of mine who was a celebrity
01:02:15said, I really want to be on the show.
01:02:16I said, great.
01:02:17You can come on the show.
01:02:18She came on the show.
01:02:19And then that opened the floodgates
01:02:21to like every single person doing a press tour.
01:02:25And then people who are not doing press tours
01:02:27are just bored and want to come on the show.
01:02:30So now it is literally, I mean, the amount of press pitches
01:02:36we get is, I'd say we get like at least 100 emails a day.
01:02:4215 to 20 of those are from recognizable names
01:02:47that we would know in this room immediately.
01:02:50And, you know, one out of 40 or 50 make it onto the show.
01:02:57How did Cate Blanchett, I was very surprised to see her.
01:03:01I don't know, maybe because she's Oscar winner
01:03:03or she's British.
01:03:03How did that come to be?
01:03:04I want to hear like the story.
01:03:05I was also surprised too.
01:03:06Did they reach out?
01:03:07Yeah, yeah.
01:03:08Did she want to plug it?
01:03:09Was she a fan?
01:03:10Was the publicist a fan?
01:03:11Like what was the, if you're Cate Blanchett,
01:03:12what was her motivation?
01:03:14I think they're like, we're doing a press
01:03:15tour for a new movie.
01:03:17And we're going to do late night.
01:03:20And we're also going to do one or two
01:03:22of the popular internet shows.
01:03:24And I've heard from multiple publicists and managers
01:03:27and agents and talent that if you're
01:03:31going to do limited press, because it's a lot of work
01:03:33to do these things.
01:03:35If you're going to do a limited press run,
01:03:38do Subway Takes.
01:03:39And then ignore the rest of the short form
01:03:42unscripted vertical video show.
01:03:44Say it again.
01:03:44Say it again.
01:03:45So I think someone like Cate Blanchett
01:03:49probably sees the caliber of talent that we put on.
01:03:51I mean, we keep it so tight.
01:03:53Like it's always a surprise.
01:03:55It's always like, it's Jane Goodall.
01:03:57It's John C. Reilly.
01:03:59It's Alexa Chung.
01:04:02It's Cate Blanchett.
01:04:04You know what I mean?
01:04:05There is a caliber that people want
01:04:09to be associated with on the show.
01:04:11So we try to keep it tight intentionally.
01:04:14Because I think a lot of the other shows
01:04:18will take any big name.
01:04:20And my show is not about big names.
01:04:22That's the thing.
01:04:23I personally don't care at all.
01:04:25I would be happy to never do it again.
01:04:28It's more about the fact that I have to do it.
01:04:31Because I think brands then are like, oh, he's
01:04:33rubbing shoulders with Cate.
01:04:35Stock goes up.
01:04:37Price goes up.
01:04:38Everything goes up, which is fine.
01:04:39So I'm playing ball.
01:04:41And I also do enjoy.
01:04:43I mean, it's really cool to meet Cate Blanchett.
01:04:45It's actually amazing.
01:04:46She's incredible.
01:04:47I never in my life thought I would meet her.
01:04:49And definitely never thought I would meet her
01:04:51because I have a show on the subway that is 90 seconds long.
01:04:56That's not the case.
01:04:58How do you feel when you're interviewing her
01:04:59or you're interviewing John C. Reilly?
01:05:01Like you said, you're a comedian.
01:05:03He's a huge comedian too.
01:05:05How do you feel when you're doing that?
01:05:07Are you nervous?
01:05:08Or is it just as if you're doing it with me?
01:05:11It's funny because I still make them pitch the take.
01:05:14I'm not like you can't.
01:05:16Cate Blanchett had to.
01:05:18Her email was really funny.
01:05:20It just said leaf blowers, leaf blowers, leaf blowers.
01:05:22And I pretty much got the point that she doesn't like them.
01:05:26I was like, great.
01:05:27It's a good take.
01:05:28I have the same feeling.
01:05:29And she's obviously very passionate about it.
01:05:32So I think that once I know that they want to be there,
01:05:39I am not nervous at all.
01:05:41It feels completely natural to me.
01:05:43I did 45 minutes with Cate.
01:05:46And she was amazing and such a pleasure to work with
01:05:50and so funny and so kind and so natural and so normal.
01:05:54So I feel the same way.
01:05:56And you'll do a 45 minute taping to get 90 super tight seconds?
01:06:01Well, no, now we're doing subway takes uncut.
01:06:03But I'm saying, I just want to get down to how this distills.
01:06:06On the normal episode, I shoot for eight minutes, nine minutes
01:06:10to do a 90 second episode.
01:06:12To do an uncut, we shoot for 45.
01:06:16You mentioned people doing press tours.
01:06:19And I read in the New York Times article
01:06:22that you did two people doing the biggest press tour ever,
01:06:27Kamala Harris and Timothy Waltz.
01:06:30Tell me about that.
01:06:32That was cool.
01:06:33I mean, it came the same way.
01:06:35They emailed me.
01:06:36They emailed.
01:06:37They got an email from the?
01:06:38The DNC.
01:06:39And they said, hey, Kamala Harris and Tim Waltz
01:06:42are really interested in being on your show.
01:06:44I said, that sounds cool.
01:06:46I'll at least get to tell my daughter
01:06:47that I met the potential president of the United States
01:06:51or the not president of the United States,
01:06:54which is still cool.
01:06:55And so I said yes based on the fact
01:06:59that it would be a good story.
01:07:01Also, they both had good takes.
01:07:04And so they were like, we'll fly you to,
01:07:07I think it was outside of Cleveland,
01:07:10or I don't even remember where it was.
01:07:11It was somewhere.
01:07:12I figured it was going to be, because I don't know,
01:07:14have you ever been to the, I did a story once in the Capitol,
01:07:17and they have a private senator subway
01:07:20that goes through the Capitol.
01:07:22Oh, I had no idea.
01:07:23That would have been funny if you were like,
01:07:24because I figured you're not going
01:07:26to have the vice president on the New York subway system.
01:07:28I tried.
01:07:29On the Q train or whatever.
01:07:30They said Secret Service would not allow it.
01:07:32I asked multiple times.
01:07:33So you went to Cleveland.
01:07:34Somewhere like Cleveland.
01:07:36I don't remember exactly where it was.
01:07:37Oh, was it Cleveland?
01:07:40What's in Ohio?
01:07:41Oh, we do our under 30 event there.
01:07:44Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland.
01:07:46Those are the three big ones.
01:07:47I think it was outside of Cleveland.
01:07:48Okay.
01:07:50Or Cincinnati.
01:07:50Akron, Toledo, Dayton.
01:07:55I was able to drive home from there.
01:07:57To New York?
01:07:58Yeah.
01:07:59I know because the flight got canceled
01:08:00and I had to make it back for a show.
01:08:03I don't remember where it was,
01:08:05but they flew me out there
01:08:06and it was like some weird little rally in a Trump zone,
01:08:10which I also didn't know was happening.
01:08:12I was like, oh, we're in like machine gun territory.
01:08:16Machine guns from the Secret Service
01:08:18and then machine guns from the Trump people.
01:08:20Machine guns everywhere.
01:08:21And I was like, this is crazy.
01:08:23Because I'd never been to anything like that.
01:08:24Like I'd never been to like a political rally,
01:08:26especially one that is like,
01:08:29this was like a tiny one.
01:08:30It had like 30 people or 40 people from the community.
01:08:33And then there was a counter protest across the street.
01:08:35I was just like, I was like, this is weird.
01:08:39But so then we, yeah, they made us do it on their bus,
01:08:42on their tour bus.
01:08:44Makes sense.
01:08:45And what happened with Kamala?
01:08:46Her take was really confusing and weird and not good.
01:08:50And so mutually agreed that we shouldn't publish it.
01:08:54I see.
01:08:55I got lucky because I didn't want to be blamed
01:08:58for her losing.
01:09:01Her take was that bad?
01:09:02It was really, really bad.
01:09:04And it was, it was like, didn't make any sense.
01:09:06I can tell you, it was bacon as a spice.
01:09:10Bacon as a spice.
01:09:11Bacon as a spice.
01:09:12Bacon as a spice.
01:09:13You think that was her opinion
01:09:14or you think she had like a research group
01:09:15trying to figure something that's gonna work?
01:09:15Research group.
01:09:16Because originally the take that I was pitched was great.
01:09:21And it was that she does not like
01:09:23to take her shoes off on airplanes.
01:09:25Okay.
01:09:26And I was like, 100% disagree.
01:09:28You better be taking the shoes off.
01:09:30Like I wear Birkenstocks on an airplane
01:09:32so that I can flip those mother effers right off
01:09:34the minute I get on.
01:09:35But you gotta have nice socks.
01:09:36You can't have like ratty socks.
01:09:37Yeah, you can't have foot.
01:09:38No foot.
01:09:39No foot, no skin.
01:09:40No skin and nice socks, no holes.
01:09:42But I wear Birkenstocks.
01:09:43I flick them off 45 minutes into the flight.
01:09:46Even if the flight's an hour and a half,
01:09:47I flick them off, no shoes.
01:09:49And I was like-
01:09:50And she's also, she's flying Air Force One,
01:09:52even as vice president.
01:09:53But in the past.
01:09:55Yes.
01:09:56I mean, you're their shoe taker offer.
01:09:58Are you a shoe taker offer?
01:10:00If it's, I'll take them off if it's like a red eye
01:10:02and I'm sleeping, but otherwise I keep them on.
01:10:05That's difficult stuff.
01:10:08You should try it.
01:10:08I'll give it a shot.
01:10:09I feel like it's just like gross down there.
01:10:11Everyone's feet in the bathroom and that kind of stuff.
01:10:13Well, you put them on when you go to the bathroom.
01:10:14No, I know, but I'm saying it's like the rug.
01:10:15Those rugs are still like there, man.
01:10:17No, you don't take them off.
01:10:18Well, what do you think about, people do go to the,
01:10:20I see like sock bathroom people and that freaks me out.
01:10:22No, that's awful.
01:10:23That's disgusting.
01:10:24That's not even a take.
01:10:25I would never ever, ever do that.
01:10:28But yeah, and then at the last minute,
01:10:30I think research group said,
01:10:32this makes you look rich and snobby
01:10:35and you need to appeal to the American people.
01:10:38So she went with the bacon
01:10:40and I tried to pause the interview and say,
01:10:43trust me, we shouldn't do the bacon thing.
01:10:46And I was overrided by this guy
01:10:49who was maybe her deputy campaign manager or something.
01:10:52He said, we're doing bacon.
01:10:53I said, all right, we'll do bacon.
01:10:54And then an hour later, I got a call that said,
01:10:59we can't do bacon.
01:11:00I said, I know you can't do bacon.
01:11:02But then I tried to cut it into something else.
01:11:06It just wasn't working.
01:11:07And I was like, you know what?
01:11:08So they overrode the bacon themselves.
01:11:10First they rode the bacon, then they overrode the bacon.
01:11:13Then I tried to override their override
01:11:16by saying, I didn't just do all this work for no reason.
01:11:17I'm gonna make it work.
01:11:18And then I did make it work.
01:11:19And then they were like, this makes her look.
01:11:22And I said, whose fault is that?
01:11:25And then I was like, if I post this,
01:11:27a lot of people are gonna be mad at me.
01:11:29If I don't post it, I still have a cool president,
01:11:32or I still have a cool photograph with Kamala Harris.
01:11:34And a good story.
01:11:35So I took the photo and the story
01:11:40and I'm really lucky that I did that.
01:11:44What was Tim Walz's take?
01:11:46His was that the most neglected part
01:11:49of home ownership is the gutters.
01:11:51Oh, so he's not a gutter guard guy.
01:11:52He loves gutter guards.
01:11:54Oh, okay.
01:11:55Yeah, he loves them.
01:11:56Maybe he's selling them now.
01:11:57He probably is.
01:11:59He's very, but I was like, this is a weird take,
01:12:02but he was so passionate about it
01:12:04that I was like, the world deserves to see this.
01:12:06Like, this guy loves gutters.
01:12:08It made a lot of sense to me.
01:12:09And that's my favorite kind of take.
01:12:11It can be mundane, but if you are passionate.
01:12:15Like Cate Blanchett, leaf blowers, passionate.
01:12:17As long as you're passionate, take can work.
01:12:20But if it's genetically modified takes,
01:12:24I can tell.
01:12:25You can tell.
01:12:26I can tell from a mile away.
01:12:27I've had to do it a lot.
01:12:28Like a lot of people come and they're like,
01:12:29I want to say this.
01:12:30And I go, no, you don't.
01:12:33You want to be perceived a certain way.
01:12:37But that's not what the show is for.
01:12:38You can't come here and say this message.
01:12:42You have to come here and say something
01:12:44that is personal and hopefully stupid,
01:12:48because that is funny.
01:12:49And at the end of the day, it's a comedy show.
01:12:51There's a tweet the other day that's hilarious.
01:12:54And it's about subway takes.
01:12:55And it's this journalist.
01:12:56And she goes, we need to end gimmick journalism.
01:12:59And it's a photo of me and Cate Blanchett.
01:13:01And I go, wow, thank you for calling me a journalist.
01:13:04That's very kind of you, because I'm literally not.
01:13:07But then I replied to her, this is shade.
01:13:10This is shade right now.
01:13:11I replied to her on Twitter.
01:13:12And I said, we need to end listicle journalism.
01:13:15And I screenshotted a bunch of her articles.
01:13:19Oh no, she wasn't at Forbes, was she?
01:13:20No, no, no, no.
01:13:21But I mean, why?
01:13:23Why the hatred?
01:13:24Like, why criticize me?
01:13:26I'm just a guy trying to make a living, an honest living.
01:13:31And I'm bringing joy to the world.
01:13:32And most of the time it's free for everyone to watch.
01:13:34It's entertainment, it's not journalism.
01:13:35Plus, there's a lot of worse things going on in the world
01:13:37than you interviewing Cate Blanchett.
01:13:39But I'm like, you as a journalist
01:13:42have done a bad job journaling
01:13:45the fact that I'm not a journalist.
01:13:47Like, I'm surprised that you're a journalist.
01:13:49If you perceive me as a journalist, that's on you, not me.
01:13:52I'm just picking you out of the blue.
01:13:53And then all these comments
01:13:55were in defense of Subway Takes, obviously.
01:13:58But like, I had to fire back.
01:14:00So I fired back with the screenshots of like,
01:14:02we need to end listicle journalism.
01:14:04Because half of her articles are like,
01:14:07here are the greatest sweaters worn on Succession.
01:14:10And I was like, oof.
01:14:11I don't know if that's journalism either.
01:14:12No, no, that's why I said,
01:14:14but that's, I would never come for her.
01:14:17But she came for me.
01:14:18But I'm like, leave me alone.
01:14:19I don't think about you.
01:14:20It's like that Don Draper meme,
01:14:22where it's like, I don't think about you at all.
01:14:23And we all know Logan Roy wears the best sweaters.
01:14:25It's not even, you don't have to do any research.
01:14:26Just know that.
01:14:27Yeah, he's a good sweater guy.
01:14:29So after all of these hundreds of episodes,
01:14:31I gotta ask, how do you make money now?
01:14:35So we do branded content.
01:14:36And we work with a lot of brands,
01:14:38and we work with brands very closely in various capacities.
01:14:42Can you take me inside one of them?
01:14:43Yeah, I'll do one that was really successful recently,
01:14:48which was with Google.
01:14:49And they have an Android initiative
01:14:53that they wanted to highlight.
01:14:57Somebody had originally come on the show organically
01:15:00that was really pro-Android.
01:15:02And was like, Android users are the best.
01:15:05Android is a better phone than iPhone.
01:15:07That was her take.
01:15:07That was her take organically.
01:15:09And she was passionate about it.
01:15:12So Google saw that,
01:15:13because it did like 15 million on,
01:15:17I think like YouTube,
01:15:18and then like 10 million on Instagram,
01:15:19and it was on the front page of Reddit.
01:15:22It was a hit.
01:15:23This was like a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago.
01:15:26And so Google hit us up,
01:15:27and they're like, we love this video.
01:15:28What can we do?
01:15:29I said, let's bring her back.
01:15:31And let's incorporate whatever messaging
01:15:34that you want to do into this video.
01:15:36And so we developed a take together with the brand,
01:15:40but with the talent.
01:15:41And the only thing we really developed
01:15:43is the first sentence,
01:15:45which is that Android users are better lovers.
01:15:48Okay.
01:15:49Okay.
01:15:50And so that was a follow-up to part,
01:15:50is part two.
01:15:52And we like flashed back to the original,
01:15:54so that if like,
01:15:56to show the audience that like,
01:15:57she's not just a plant.
01:15:58Like she is an Android customer.
01:16:00She has credibility.
01:16:02And that's the only thing,
01:16:04like there's nothing different about the video.
01:16:07There is actually nothing different about the video,
01:16:09other than she's back with another take
01:16:11about Android users.
01:16:13But as lovers.
01:16:14As lovers.
01:16:15And then she goes into why they're better lovers,
01:16:17which again, we worked on the brand
01:16:19to like highlight specific messaging.
01:16:21And it did really well organically.
01:16:22No one was upset that it was sponsored.
01:16:25No one got mad.
01:16:26No one said this.
01:16:27No one said that.
01:16:27Is that branded as branded content?
01:16:29Yeah.
01:16:30A paid partnership.
01:16:32And then I want to talk about some,
01:16:35but they're already out.
01:16:36Like one that's already out,
01:16:37like Hulu.
01:16:38We just did a deal with Hulu
01:16:40around their new show, Deli Boys,
01:16:42which just premiered.
01:16:43So we had one of the talent on Subway Takes.
01:16:46So that's like a really simple one.
01:16:48He picked his own take.
01:16:49I already knew him.
01:16:50He's a comedian.
01:16:51Like it was,
01:16:52we didn't have to do anything.
01:16:53It was simply like,
01:16:54watch Deli Boys somewhere in the caption.
01:16:57But effective, effective marketing.
01:17:01Google was really happy, by the way.
01:17:03I don't know if I mentioned that already,
01:17:04but the sentiment on the video was super positive.
01:17:08Like it wasn't,
01:17:09like most people agreed,
01:17:10which was great.
01:17:11Cause we didn't do any, you know,
01:17:13we didn't do any paid posting
01:17:14or anything like that,
01:17:15or any boosting.
01:17:17I have to look at the freaking page
01:17:19to remember what else is being worked on,
01:17:21but we published,
01:17:22oh, Street Easy.
01:17:23We did Street Easy one recently,
01:17:25Street Easy recently.
01:17:28That one, they picked the talent,
01:17:30which was a comedian that I already knew,
01:17:32and helped develop the take with us.
01:17:37But the unique thing about that
01:17:38is that they wanted us to shoot
01:17:39in front of a Subway ad
01:17:43that was running in the Subway.
01:17:44Like their ad.
01:17:45Gotcha.
01:17:46So it's her doing the video
01:17:47with a Street Easy ad in the background.
01:17:50Again, that one was cloud posted
01:17:52with Street Easy and the comedian.
01:17:54Very cool.
01:17:55That's really easy to work with.
01:17:56But it seems like brands have a really good time
01:17:58and they really trust us to do our thing.
01:18:01So any brand that comes to us,
01:18:04like we will figure it out.
01:18:08Some just want us to do whatever we want
01:18:11and they just want the collab post.
01:18:12Others want to help cast.
01:18:14Others want like a product placement.
01:18:17I did one with pizza rolls,
01:18:20Totino's pizza rolls.
01:18:22Where I was eating pizza rolls
01:18:23for no particular reason.
01:18:25But it was really funny
01:18:26and I was actually excited to do it
01:18:27because it was the first time we did product placement.
01:18:29So I actually pitched the brand that.
01:18:32Because they were like,
01:18:33let's do a take about snacks and pizza rolls.
01:18:35I said, what if we do the take about whatever
01:18:37and I'm eating pizza rolls.
01:18:38Because who doesn't love eating pizza rolls on a Subway?
01:18:41I love eating it on a Subway in general.
01:18:42I went out and bought a La Cruce like nice bowl
01:18:45for the pizza rolls.
01:18:46My assistant Rami, associate producer on the show,
01:18:49heated them up for me, brought them to set.
01:18:51That one, I picked the comedian.
01:18:54I like sent them three or four comedians.
01:18:56They approved one.
01:18:58That comedian pitched three or four takes.
01:19:00They approved one.
01:19:01It had nothing to do with pizza rolls.
01:19:03But then I was like, I want to be.
01:19:05I was like, I want to do the product placement
01:19:08because I've never done it before.
01:19:10So that one was really good.
01:19:12H&M did three videos with us.
01:19:14And for them, they were just like,
01:19:17we just want the guests to wear H&M.
01:19:20So I pitched them a list of like 10 people
01:19:22within the demographic of guests that they wanted.
01:19:25They picked the three people.
01:19:27They got a bunch of free clothes.
01:19:28They put it on.
01:19:29They did their takes.
01:19:31Random takes.
01:19:31Pretty easy.
01:19:32Yeah.
01:19:33I think it was collab posted or tagged.
01:19:35But the way that we do branded content is really integrated
01:19:39and it's very important to us in the same way
01:19:41that the celebrity thing is like,
01:19:44you are coming on Subway Takes.
01:19:46You know what I mean?
01:19:47You are coming on Subway Takes.
01:19:48Participate in the show.
01:19:51And then I independently work with a lot of brands
01:19:53doing all sorts of stuff.
01:19:56I just directed and produced and starred in, obviously.
01:20:00Your talent now.
01:20:01A really incredible series
01:20:04that is based on Keep the Meter Running with a huge brand.
01:20:07I don't know if I'm allowed to announce it yet,
01:20:09but it was cool because again,
01:20:11I think I'm at a point where brands like what I do.
01:20:14So they go, we like that.
01:20:15We want some of that for us.
01:20:17So like this brand saw Keep the Meter Running
01:20:19and they said, can you do Keep the Meter Running for us?
01:20:20And it was a really natural extension
01:20:23of what I already do with cab drivers,
01:20:24but with a different kind of driver.
01:20:26Yeah, there you go.
01:20:27And so that's coming out, I think March,
01:20:31sometime in March 22nd or something.
01:20:33But that was cool.
01:20:34Produced, directed.
01:20:37So yeah, I do stuff for brands independently.
01:20:39I'm doing a red carpet for HBO in Los Angeles next week.
01:20:45And then Subway Takes is, yeah,
01:20:48you integrate into Subway Takes in various ways.
01:20:51I love how Subway Takes started organically,
01:20:54but now with you explaining some of the examples,
01:20:57like it's so good for marketing
01:20:59because so many products are about either hot takes
01:21:02or about rivalries.
01:21:03Like my hot, it's like Coke is better than Pepsi
01:21:06or Instagram is better than TikTok
01:21:09or just like hot take that this product is the best
01:21:12or I want to go on vacation here.
01:21:14It's an argument that's so good for,
01:21:16you could put any kind of advertising in there
01:21:18and it didn't do it on purpose,
01:21:19but I love how it worked out.
01:21:21Yeah, and the product placement.
01:21:22Like in one episode, I was drinking Body Armor,
01:21:25which we shot in Chicago.
01:21:27It's like a beverage.
01:21:27Okay, I thought it was like body spray.
01:21:30No, no, no, no, this is a beverage.
01:21:32Kind of like, I don't know, competitors.
01:21:35And yeah, it's like there's product placement,
01:21:38there's inception into people's brains through messaging.
01:21:42There's brand mentions, I've had to mention brands.
01:21:45They're like, you know, with like,
01:21:46they've asked to say like,
01:21:48you have to say the name of the brand twice in the take.
01:21:50But usually I will do it.
01:21:53Like usually I don't force that upon my guest
01:21:56because that is like, you know, they get paid, I get paid.
01:22:00But usually I'm like, I'll do the mess.
01:22:02I'll be the messenger of the messaging.
01:22:05But yeah, it's been a really, really nice business
01:22:09and it's allowed me working with brands.
01:22:12I love working with brands and it's allowed me
01:22:15to be able to expand the format into Subway Takes Uncut.
01:22:19We're launching a new podcast soon.
01:22:21We're doing a live show on Saturday that's fully sold out.
01:22:24But those things are not necessarily moneymaking endeavors.
01:22:27They're all loss leaders.
01:22:29So, you know, the short form show allows
01:22:33the subsidization of all of these other experiments.
01:22:37Yeah, I was gonna ask, you're doing the Subway Takes
01:22:39because you have to, I mean, you love it,
01:22:41but you have to do it because it pays the bills.
01:22:43If you have all these other ideas,
01:22:45you're obviously an idea guy.
01:22:46I would love to see what like your phone notes are like
01:22:48because I'm sure you have all this stuff.
01:22:49But if you and I were sitting here a year from now
01:22:52or two years from now, like what sort of projects
01:22:56would you be telling me about that you're excited about?
01:22:58You know, I think I'm kind of like really back
01:23:03on the YouTube train.
01:23:05I think YouTube went away for a while,
01:23:07but I'm really into exploring like the eight
01:23:12to 12 minute horizontal content,
01:23:16mostly because, you know, YouTube on TV
01:23:21is really interesting to me.
01:23:23It is, and it has tremendous growth potential
01:23:27and also is growing at a rapid pace.
01:23:30So the idea that I can then control my own TV station,
01:23:35like actual television station, not phone.
01:23:37I love phone.
01:23:39You just see my screen time.
01:23:41But sitting down and turning on myself
01:23:44is a whole new experience for people.
01:23:46I heard a stat that I think over 50%
01:23:49of all YouTube users watch it on their TVs.
01:23:52I don't, maybe, and you know,
01:23:53maybe because we're like a little older.
01:23:55I started after I read the stat.
01:23:57Yeah.
01:23:58Literally.
01:23:58You're part of the majority.
01:23:59Well, I read the stat and I said,
01:24:00let me see what this feels like because I'm gonna do it.
01:24:02What'd you think?
01:24:03It's great.
01:24:04Yesterday, I watched Walton Goggins'
01:24:06Architectural Digest tour of his home upstate.
01:24:10I was entertained.
01:24:11How was his house?
01:24:13He's a weird guy.
01:24:14Yeah.
01:24:15Don't you think so?
01:24:15Don't you think?
01:24:16He plays weird characters, I'll tell you that.
01:24:18But he's cool.
01:24:19I like the house.
01:24:19But yeah, that stat, I read the same stat
01:24:22and it stuck with me and I can't stop
01:24:24thinking about it, actually.
01:24:26It's like that is the next frontier for me,
01:24:28for sure, is that.
01:24:31Like, because I am obsessed with the idea
01:24:34of people watching me on TV.
01:24:36But TV no longer means television.
01:24:38It just means the device.
01:24:40So, it doesn't mean streamer, it doesn't mean network,
01:24:43it doesn't mean studio, it means TV.
01:24:45It's the vehicle.
01:24:46Yes.
01:24:47It is the hardware.
01:24:47And the fastest way to get on TV is YouTube.
01:24:51Well, hopefully people will be watching us
01:24:53in their living rooms when this comes out in a few days.
01:24:55I hope so.
01:24:56I hope so.
01:24:57All right, big shout out and thank you, Kareem Rama.
01:24:59Thanks for joining us.
01:25:01Thank you for having me, it's been-
01:25:02I'm excited to see you in that
01:25:04undisclosed Cab commercial very soon.
01:25:09Undisclosed Cab adjacent.
01:25:10Cab adjacent.
01:25:11Short form, vertical, unscripted video content.
01:25:13Soon to go horizontal, like you said.
01:25:15I'll see you on TV.
01:25:16I'll see you on TV.
01:25:17♪ Come on, baby ♪

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