Known for her offbeat laugh and women-focused content, TikTok creator Afualo earned an estimated $2.9 million last year from a mix of brand deals and her two podcasts: The Comment Section, a weekly show on which guests like actor Rainn Wilson and singer-songwriter Kehlani talk about how to deal with internet hate, and Two Idiot Girls, where she and her sister, Deison, share embarrassing stories and funny life experiences. With a 9 million strong audience consisting mostly of women under 35, Afualo's social platforms appeal to sponsors like Elf Cosmetics and the NBA. In April 2023, she signed a two-year deal with Spotify, which Forbes estimates earns her $450,000 a year. Fresh off the success of LOUD, her best-selling memoir, Afualo is setting her focus on mainstream media. "Traditional Hollywood now must be a lot more open to the idea of including internet people," she says. "TV and movies-that's my new venture."
0:00 Intro
1:40 Advice You’d Give Your Younger Self
3:09 Life Before Being A Creator
7:08 Working For The NFL
9:40 Becoming A Creator
11:22 Drew’s Online Persona
13:10 The Red Flag Video
13:57 The Business of Drew Afualo
16:00 Working With The Rock
16:40 On Chappell Roan & Other Guests
18:27 On Prepping For Interviews
19:21 Advice Before Your Red Flag Video
21:20 How To Deal With Online Hate
23:50 Trends In The Creator & Podcasting Economy
28:55 What Do You Want To Hear From Creators?
32:24 What Drew Is Working On Right Now
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0:00 Intro
1:40 Advice You’d Give Your Younger Self
3:09 Life Before Being A Creator
7:08 Working For The NFL
9:40 Becoming A Creator
11:22 Drew’s Online Persona
13:10 The Red Flag Video
13:57 The Business of Drew Afualo
16:00 Working With The Rock
16:40 On Chappell Roan & Other Guests
18:27 On Prepping For Interviews
19:21 Advice Before Your Red Flag Video
21:20 How To Deal With Online Hate
23:50 Trends In The Creator & Podcasting Economy
28:55 What Do You Want To Hear From Creators?
32:24 What Drew Is Working On Right Now
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00But I think when people are entering this world of influencing, it's it doesn't matter like how nice you are
00:07You are still gonna hate regardless
00:09So you have to make peace with that and understand that the content you're making and why you're doing it is not for the people
00:15Who are looking for a reason to hate you it's for other people who need you
00:19Hey everybody, Steve Bertone from Forbes. Welcome to Top Creators. I am psyched today to have on our show
00:30author, creator, TikToker, Instagrammer, podcaster
00:35Soon-to-be Hollywood star Drew Afalo. Drew, thank you for joining us. You'll be a keynote speaker at under 30 summit
00:43What's going on? Like you've had a you just come you came off an engagement, but who cares about that?
00:47You just came off a book tour best-selling book tour. Yes. What tell me what's what's been going on?
00:53What's what's exciting? I mean, I've been haven't slept in like three years, but feeling good feeling
01:00Accomplished I've just been really busy and it's been amazing. How many hours of sleep at night you need do I need?
01:06I mean at least two
01:08Have I had lately?
01:11Averaging between like two to eight really? Yeah, like you depends on what I'm you can function on two hours like more than one night
01:16Yeah, I just I mean you have no choice. Sometimes I got you what you're like
01:21Do you have it like are you a caffeine person in the morning? Yeah, I do love a good coffee
01:25I love a good energy drink, but I feel like as I get older, I'm a lot more like oh
01:30I got a drink water first. I gotta make sure I eat a good breakfast first as I get older, you know
01:33Yeah, your stomach starts to go. Please. You're 29. You got plenty. You got plenty of time. What was the most?
01:39Before you're about to start writing your book in the book tour if you go in a time machine
01:43What advice would you give yourself before you started it? What's like the biggest surprise you had?
01:47I mean, I would give myself
01:50I would tell myself to trust that whatever the universe has in store for me is meant for me
01:57Because I am a Virgo
01:59Which means I have a lot of plans and plans and plans and plans
02:03So, you know when my plans don't go according to the exact detailed way. I plan them
02:08I tend to freak out and so my plan went completely left after college and
02:13Thankfully it worked out for the absolute best. Like I'm so grateful
02:16It worked out that way really believe in the signs and stuff Virgo and totally
02:21Literally, so what's a Virgo like Virgos are neurotic and know-it-alls
02:25But very hard-working very successful
02:29Okay, that works. Obviously. I'm a Capricorn. Everyone says Capricorns are like serious or something. I don't know
02:36It's a goat. I'll be honest with you Steve. I've talked a lot of shit on Capricorns. Why what's what's the what's the rap?
02:42Well, my hair and makeup artist and my cousin Adam's a Capricorn to who I love very dearly
02:46I'm sorry. I do love I have a hate-love relationship with Capricorns, but I just think Capricorns are very engaging
02:52They people tend to gravitate towards them and like like them
02:55I think Capricorns can pretend they never cared about you ever in your entire life
03:00Like within an hour and I find that to be a Batman
03:03All right villain origin story so I could work that could that be in a movie the Capricorns
03:07Yeah, you talked about you know your life going off off a path. Let's take it back
03:11I love how you study journalism want to be a journalist. Yes, take me to that. So you're in went to school Hawaii
03:17yes, I went to the University of Hawaii and I majored in journalism and communications and based off just like the history of
03:24Sports in my family and football players and I really wanted to work in professional sports. Let's go back to that
03:29So you sure family and a big NFL family? Yeah. Well in the sense that like my dad played in the NFL
03:35Yeah, okay. What did he play? Who do you play for position?
03:37He played left guard for the Arizona Cardinals Wow
03:40and my dad started playing like for the very first time started playing football in junior college when he was like 21 and
03:48Then ever it never played before. No, no, which is a very common
03:51Occurrence from a lot of Samoan men like they just are naturally athletic and agile. I don't know
03:57It just the build just lends towards football
03:59So my dad got recruited off just walking around campus. And so he learned how to play football
04:06Went to got a full ride after two years at the JC and then got drafted in the seventh round
04:12It's amazing like 2001 and so my dad went to the league
04:16But it didn't last very long because my dad was my I think my dad was like 27 28 at the time
04:22So which is like a hundred in NFL years, especially at the time. So his career didn't last very long
04:28And so, you know just growing up and being around that a lot. I grew up in a Samoan family
04:32So I know a lot of men who went to the NFL. Yeah, I know a lot of men who are currently in the NFL
04:36I mean the numbers are incredible
04:37I remember there's a famous Sports Illustrated story probably a decade ago about like the percentage of
04:42Samoan like high school kids that go and play d1 football
04:45Yeah, and then just you hear all the names in the NFL and like I looked this up before the talk
04:49Mm-hmm on Wikipedia, so don't fact-check me
04:51But I think like the population of quote like Samoan like yeah, it's like 200,000 people
04:57Yeah, maybe and the like the percentage of people that go on to the NFL. Yeah
05:02It's got to be the highest like community totally into you know, it's insane like for when I was in early in college
05:09I did a story on that and how like
05:12The percentage of men met like Samoan men are like five times more likely than any other race to go
05:17Based off how many there are of us in the world per capita that number makes no sense. So so you did the research
05:23Yeah, so I've you know, I've been around football my entire life
05:25So I just thought like sports are in my blood and I I really like to talk so maybe sports is the way
05:31And so I pursued that that's what I focused on. I will be your dream job
05:35Do you want to be like on what you would want to be like on Sports Center back?
05:38Yeah, like Bob Costas. Okay, like I wanted to be a commentator
05:41I wanted to stand there and be like give my thoughts
05:44I wanted to be like Cheyenne Tavoya like a sideline order and so, you know in college
05:50I did all the jobs I had I tried to make sure we're within the realm of sports journalism
05:54So I worked in media relations. I worked at the Athletic Department
05:57I worked at the school newspaper
06:00And then I became the sports editor of the sports desk at my school newspaper
06:04And so while I was there, I worked the last Pro Bowl that was in Hawaii. Very cool
06:07I worked the Utah Jazz game which was against the Lakers
06:11So I met Kobe and Metta and all of them
06:13So I I did a lot of things in college and my last my senior year capstone thesis was done on to a tongue-of-Iowa
06:20Yeah, so I right because when I was a senior he had just gone to Alabama
06:25So I got in contact with his family. I followed him for three four months
06:28I went to his first 8a game in Alabama and Tuscaloosa. There ain't shit out there, by the way
06:35Just football that there is nothing to do out there
06:37So I followed him there
06:39I did a whole long-form narrative story on him and that story is actually the story that got me hired at the NFL
06:44So yeah, you guys are you still close to I know he's going through a really tough time right now. It's scary
06:48I don't know if close is the word
06:49I mean like I followed him for a while and I mostly I talked to his mom and his dad
06:55But I I believed that like, you know me being someone in them being someone it it helps them
07:00You know feel more comfortable talking to me
07:01So that story is actually what got me hired and I worked at the NFL for a short time
07:07Yeah, but you said you got late you got laid off. It was Kovac. There was no NFL. Well, no, I got fired
07:13You do I can't talk about what I fired it fired with cause no, no, honestly, um, no, there was no cause
07:19They they got rid of me. They asked me to leave I said, okay
07:22So it didn't work out the way that I
07:25Was hoping it would at the time
07:28Because to be quite honest with you when I got there
07:30It wasn't what I thought it was gonna be
07:32I thought I was gonna really love my job there because I love sports and I you know was hired for a very specific reason
07:38So I thought I was doing a good job and I like to compare it like I had worked
07:42My entire college career high school everything up until that point and I did it all to get there
07:48and then it's almost like I
07:50Compare it to like I climbed the mountain and I just didn't like the view like when I got up there
07:53I was really unhappy at that job like the entire time. I was there
07:57That's really hard when you again like you yeah worked so hard to get something and it's like it's like meeting your heroes
08:02Exactly. Like oh, wait a minute. What was your what was like your role?
08:06Like what was like you're supposed to be your day in the life at the NFL like what were you doing?
08:09Well, first off I was driving two and a half hours one way because I didn't live in LA at the time
08:15Okay, where'd you live? So I lived in I lived in like Inland Empire area
08:19So I lived about literally two and a half hours
08:21So I would to get there at nine I would wake up at four and then I would get ready and I would leave my house
08:26By like 530 to find like a friend of the couch or something
08:29Yeah that I drove two and a half hours one way and two and a half hours the other way
08:33So I was driving around six to seven hours
08:36I put like a hundred thousand miles on my car and that all your salary was going to gas
08:39Yeah, and I had no health care. Oh, yeah, just driving for fun
08:43You know like you ever drive so much that you just like stop listening to music. I just sit inside. Yeah
08:48Just yeah, I was like, I'm really that sucks
08:51Like I'm sitting in silence cruise control and once you got there what we suppose like I know you're on social media there
08:55Well, yeah, so we what were you doing? What was he supposed to do?
08:57I was just creating content for them trying to come up with posts that with you like you as a star
09:02No, no, not at all. No, I was like I was
09:06Just basically a person who came up with ideas for
09:10Posts or captions or whatnot all of those random things to try and like grow a following
09:15Well that led to good things. So you got laid off. Yes, and we just had
09:20We were doing another under 30 interview and a guy had a great job and he's like I wanted to start a company
09:25So I quit but I didn't have an idea because I thought if I didn't have a job
09:29It would force me to have an idea. Oh, yeah, I'm like that's pretty gutsy right and in some ways like
09:35Covid lockdown no job like that gave you that opportunity to start
09:38Yeah, branching out. So tell me about when you started making videos. Yeah. What what was that spark?
09:43I mean when I when I was working at the NFL my
09:47Family and my fiance were all
09:49All own their own businesses. So they were working for themselves and my family and my fiance all knew how unhappy what kind of businesses
09:56Really? My parents work in a financial consultant business. My
10:00Fiance starts it has a personal training business. So it was like everyone was working for themselves except for me
10:05Yeah
10:05And so my mom had told me many times like you're never gonna work harder for anyone than you do for yourself
10:11And if you have no choice, you have no choice
10:13All right, so it is obviously this job does require you to be self-motivated to some extent
10:18You have to be very disciplined to do this for a living
10:20There's just way too much freedom for you to not to be. Yeah
10:22So I think when I first started making videos, obviously it was just for fun
10:26it was just to be creative at the time and then as it started compounding on itself that was really when I was like
10:31I think I could like do something with this
10:34I remember having a conversation with my mom about it and I told my parents like once it really started growing and growing quickly
10:41I told them I just give me like six months. I think I'm gonna take six months. I'm really gonna commit to this
10:47So you didn't have a job you're at home and now in making tick-tocks. Yes, your parents
10:51I was living off savings
10:52Cool keep go go for it or they're like, why don't you come to the financial business?
10:56Yeah, they well they knew they knew that would always be there
10:59So like they were like if and if it doesn't work you can go get another job where you could do this
11:03Like it's really up to you that they trust that I know because I've always been on a very specific path
11:08So they knew I was gonna do something and so I told them I think I'm gonna commit
11:13Six months to this and almost six months to the day. I hit a million on tik-tok and I got signed
11:18It worked out how'd you come up with your kind of internet character cuz I know it's you but it's like I'm a big curve
11:24You're in Kirby enthusiasm fan
11:25Oh, yeah, Larry David's like the Larry you see on TV is like a hyper version of me
11:30Like I'm not like that in real life. Yeah, and we spent time together and you're always very chill and charming
11:36Maybe I haven't pissed you off yet
11:38but
11:39Like how did you kind of come up with this this oversized personality?
11:43Yeah on tik-tok was I think have my accident or something you thought out of I mean
11:47I think I honestly I think I just I just started recording myself and then
11:53Just kind of leaning into it a little bit
11:55I mean, I think
11:56obviously when you work in corporate America
11:58Like you have to be to some extent especially as someone who looks and presents the way I do and working in sports
12:03I had to be a very muted version of myself in order to like survive and that was probably the worst thing that job took
12:09for me was like
12:10My spark my sparkle you felt like you had to be subdued
12:14Yeah, absolutely because you have to blend in like you have to because it was very
12:20It's a very it's a business unlike won't know a like any and entertainment
12:26It's very competitive and there's very like there's a lot of nepotism involved in it, too
12:30And it's very like I don't it's a scarcity mindset. That's how it runs
12:34So if someone has that means it's taking from me, I personally don't move through life like that
12:40And it's a sexy job we're like people who do it for free so exactly yeah
12:44So there's the NFL pretty diverse the business side of it when you're on
12:48No
12:50Shocking to hear um, no, it's not. Okay. I was I was one of the most diverse people who work there
12:56Well, I'll just put it that way. Okay, so that's not saying much because the product is very diverse. Yeah
13:02Yeah, you would you would think yes, okay, it would be more diverse. Yeah, you would think it's not
13:08So you're making these videos and you came up with your famous red flag. Yes. That was my very first video
13:13Did you know that was gonna be a hit or was just like or it's about consistency like I'm gonna make a couple of
13:17It like I'm gonna make I'm gonna take a hundred swings at the plate and one will hit and we'll see what happens
13:23They're like you made this real like this is gonna blow up or you're just just no that one
13:27After that was when I really committed because I I was just making them because I thought it was fun
13:32Yeah, so that one I I didn't think it was gonna I didn't I wasn't like a oh
13:36This is a banger. I just I made it. I thought it was funny and it was a banger
13:41So it just worked
13:42and then after that is when I really started committing to I posted one video every single day for like
13:48six months straight and
13:50It just got bigger and bigger and bigger with with time. Yeah, and just exposure right just repetition
13:56Yeah, and forget and now it's grown like you were saying before but I want you to tell me again about you know
14:00This kind of like the drew a follow is a whole industrial complex now
14:04Not just you tell me about like the business behind like behind the scenes
14:08It's fascinating because I think with a creator economy many people think it's just someone with a phone
14:12Yeah, but it's becoming so sophisticated and becoming like companies
14:16Tell me break this down because you have so many different different arms and different revenue streams. Yeah, very very diversified revenue stream
14:24Yeah, I mean I've talked to other creators about it, too
14:26I've asked them like it really just depends on what your goals are
14:30So if you're cool with just getting brand deals and posting videos promoting products and making money that way, that's great
14:37If you want to grow past that you got to grow a team
14:40So like you you need more than just like one manager
14:43So for me, I had my agent first and then we brand deals were not an issue at all
14:48Obviously at the time when it really started hitting I was I was getting lots of brand deal opportunities
14:54But I told her I wanted to go to more events and I wanted to do you know, I wanted a show
14:58I wanted a podcast and that's how the comment section was born and I was already doing two idiot girls and I wanted to do
15:04More hosting which is why the comment section was important to me because when I first started the comment section
15:08I was making $0 because I was making very little money off that show because it was more of a brand building thing for me
15:14I wanted people to see that I could talk for long periods of time. I could talk to other people I could interview
15:20Celebrity talent back to being a journalist again. Exactly. Yeah, so I I felt like that was an extension of my content
15:26But also was showing me in a different light. And so when I hosted the Oscars carpet
15:32Yes for tick-tock that was because of my show. So my the the person who pitched me her boss who approves talent
15:40Watched my show a lot and said like, okay, she's great
15:43But I want to see her in a live setting and so I hosted the live for Black Adam the movie
15:47Yes, yeah, and they watched that and then he approved me
15:49So it's like, you know in order to grow past just being an influencer like you have to you know
15:55Open other roll balls in other direction. That was big and that was with the rock. Yes. There's another Samoan
15:59Yes, so that's must have been very that must have been very cool like a very like, you know, kind of like full circle thing
16:05Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was great
16:07I've met him a couple times now and he's always lovely and amazing and the first time was on the Black Adam carpet and I
16:15Had said to if I was gonna do that
16:17I was wanted to wear something that was traditionally made by someone person which I did and I took my boyfriend and he was wearing
16:23Traditional Samoan
16:25Outfit cultural office called an EFI Kanga and so he wore that on the carpet and we were photographed and then I got to talk
16:30To the rock and it's very full circle. Yeah, very cultural. I'm Italian
16:35I want to wear Italian suits, but I can't afford them
16:39In terms of your show you've had some on the comment section you've had some huge guests Chapel Ronin
16:45Yes, and you know, she's huge blowing up
16:47Like how do you do you have like a team that books these people or do you reach out yourself?
16:51Or do you have like a hit list of like a dream list of like I want all these these folks
16:55Like, how does that come about? I do have a dream. Yeah dream guests is for sure
16:58I do obviously it's as the show has grown. It's like the the pool has opened even more which is wonderful
17:05Chapel I booked I just I I messaged her she and I have been online friends for a minute
17:10So I just asked her if she wanted to come I asked her right before she like
17:15Really exploded which I guess I got her at the perfect time. Perfect. You got it. You're a tastemaker
17:19Yeah, but she and I are really cool and we love each other
17:22So, you know, we've loved each other's content and arts and everything my content her art
17:28Imagine I'm calling mine art. Um, and so I book her like I've booked a lot of our biggest guests like
17:34Meghan Trainor and like Luna and a lot of those she's gonna talk it. I didn't know she's from in tucking in Cape Cod
17:40That's very oh
17:41That's my girl. I love her. Um, but like they honestly they found me online like they they just really really love my content
17:49They just think I'm funny
17:50So I just said you want to come hang with me and talk and giggle for like an hour and they're like hell
17:55Yeah, so they came and I do have a talent booking team though. I have I have a personal talent booker
18:01She's my assistant as well. And then I also Spotify has a booking team for me
18:05Have you always been funny really the class clown you always like talking shit to the guys when you're trying to like were you?
18:10Yeah, I mean talking trash the guys and put in their place like a middle school in high school. Yes
18:16The short answer to that is yes very much
18:18So as far as like being funny, yeah, I think I've just always been a I've always loved attention and to entertain
18:25So worked out that I did this for a living
18:27When you do your podcast do you how much how do you prep for a guest?
18:31Do you kind of go in there and just assume, you know
18:33The person and would you do like a lot of research and read up on the like?
18:36What is your prep time when you're doing these because you're like a talk show host? Yeah. Yeah
18:39I mean, honestly, I guess I am now too. So yeah
18:43Wow, I think I dreams come true
18:45Everyone I have is is someone that I like love like I love their content or I love their art
18:51Both or all of it
18:53And honestly, this is like I sometimes shocking for people to hear every single one of my guests that I've ever had
18:59I with the exception of maybe two I met ten minutes before we started so like
19:06We met we said hi
19:07They set everything up while we sit there and I'm just like how's your day been good and then we start
19:12Organic natural looks like we've been best friends for years, but that's just being good at your job
19:19That's good. It's comes natural. You're a netflix. What?
19:23If you could go back in time right now to right before you're gonna post that red flag
19:29Video what advice would you tell yourself about this life? Maybe the goods the good of being creator?
19:35Oh, yeah downside because I know obviously you get crazy used to your tick-tock stuff. We get crazy hate crazy troll
19:41What advice would you give your slightly younger self because this has happened a couple years ago? Yeah, I would tell myself
19:48To go to therapy and go sooner. Okay, then when I did I'm in therapy now
19:53But like I I didn't go until I think I was like a year and a half in I'm doing this full-time
20:00The problems that you encounter with this job are not problems that you would ever encounter
20:05no matter how many jobs you've had and I feel like that's a misconception about influencers because I
20:10Didn't get famous at 14. So like I got famous in 25. So I was a full-grown adult. Yeah, I went to college
20:17I graduated I worked many normal jobs. I worked in service. I worked at 9 to 5 and everything in between
20:21So I had many normal jobs. I was an aggressively normal person before this happened to me and I was a fully formed adult
20:28And I think yeah, not a child actor. No, not a child in any way shape or form
20:33I was fully up an adult and in a grown-up relationship and everything by the time I this happened to me and
20:40They're you know
20:41The mental toll that it takes not even just hate because getting hit online is a whole nother issue
20:46But I think also it's just what comes with being perceived at a very large scale
20:53It's very hard and it's something that no human alive
20:57Can deal with on their own with no help because we're not meant to be seen by that many people all the time
21:02and so, you know, I think I would tell my
21:06slightly younger self
21:08To lock in and also to go to therapy. Got you. So it's almost like that. It's fame, right?
21:13It's like that. Yeah the curse of fame
21:15Essentially. Yeah, what is your therapist said that helped or in terms of what what is the the?
21:21Exercises are just the mindset that helped you because I think that could help a lot of a lot of people
21:24Yeah, I mean well when dealing with hate I think like like just troll kind of hate. Yeah, I've told people
21:32You know that you could be the nicest most PC
21:38Perfect-looking person in the entire universe. You could never be mean to anyone and they're still gonna hate you
21:44Like there's you're still gonna get a random person going. I don't know. I just hate your vibe
21:47Yeah, and they don't know you've never met you and so like I someone I use it as an example is Emily Mariko
21:54I don't know if you're familiar with no, she makes cooking content. She doesn't talk in her videos. She has never spoken
21:59Oh, yes, I've heard. Yeah, literally ever
22:01She's talked like maybe once and they hate her like they'll write like, oh, I hate this girl
22:08She doesn't even talk like and I'm the complete opposite. I go and I antagonize people on purpose. Yes, that's so obviously
22:14I'm gonna get you're going more than talking. Oh, yeah, I go in and I swing I spray a crowd like that's what I do
22:19So if I were shocked at getting hate, that would be a hypocritical of me
22:23But I think when people are entering this world of influencing it's it doesn't matter like how nice you are
22:31You are still gonna hate regardless
22:33You have to make peace with that and understand that the content you're making and why you're doing it is not for the people who
22:39Are looking for a reason to hate you. It's for other people. Yeah, who needs you?
22:43I've had that on a minor scale just even writing stories not even about me. I'm writing about someone else and someone's
22:48Talking trash about me in the comment section and I'm like, yeah, I'm just the writer man
22:51Yeah, I can't imagine but you do put like really putting yourself out there. Yeah, it's it's unavoidable and it's
22:58Unfortunately just the nature of the internet
23:00So I think making peace with that early on is important and especially if you want to keep doing it and keep growing
23:06as far as
23:07You know what? My therapist has told me and dealing with being perceived by millions of people
23:13is
23:14she reminds me all the time that like
23:17You know, my emotions are not
23:19You know when they're when they're alerting me to feeling uncomfortable or feeling anxious. They're not bad
23:25They're just alerting me to something my needs need to be met and they're not being met
23:28So I need to be better at holding boundaries when it comes to being in public or or meeting fans in public
23:35I need to assert my boundaries in order to have my needs met
23:38So that I don't feel like I'm like a caged animal because sometimes it does feel like that
23:43When you're being perceived at a very large scale, thanks for coming on stage at Forbes. We appreciate of course
23:48Coming up here. Let's talk. What do you the creator business is changing so much like yeah, what are you learning about business?
23:54What advice are you gonna give to obviously you have you know, we talked about this before but you have the book in the pot
23:59You're a great book and your podcast and that's kind of like, you know
24:03Guarantee the contract guaranteed income and then you have brand deals which are like one-offs like how what is like the creator?
24:10Economy look like for you right now and like what are you seeing? What trends what advice do you people because I'm sure there's millions of
24:15people that want to
24:17Even all the all the nightmares you're sharing want to be an influencer creator. There's millions of them
24:23What are you seeing what advice I mean, I
24:26Don't know. I feel like well first off when it comes to podcasting
24:29I have been getting that question a lot too. Like I I want to write a podcast or I want to start a podcast
24:34You know, how do I get started? Like what's some tips for it to be successful?
24:39I've advised people now the podcast market is extremely saturated. Everybody has one now. I have to write so everybody has one
24:45But I saw a great like cartoon that said yeah, it was said I feel like everyone's podcasting and no one's listening
24:51I think that's it's good. It's too easy. I mean anyone could all you need is a phone
24:55It's a new thing, right?
24:56Which is is the nature of of trends and popularity and the advice I've given people
25:02specifically about the podcasting
25:03Aspect is before you buy anything before you invest in an editor or equipment or lighting or set or anything like that
25:11Just set up your phone and record yourself talking for 45 minutes. Okay with no help
25:17No guest just pick one topic talk for 45 minutes
25:20And if you can't do that, then podcasting is probably not in the cards for you and that's okay
25:25I have enough yap in me to fuel two shows where I have one episode a week
25:31So like and you're putting extras on yeah, and I'm making content at the same time and I'm writing and I'm interviewing
25:36So I have a I have the gift of gab like not everybody has that and that's okay
25:40Yeah, I do say to that
25:43aspiring to be an influencer I
25:46That the feeling around that feels really icky
25:48I think it depends on what you want to accomplish like if the goal is to just make a lot of money and get free shit
25:54This is not the place for you. Like you're not it's not gonna work
25:57you're not gonna grow and you're not gonna grow an audience because
26:01Nobody wants to support someone who only wants free things
26:03so
26:04it's like you have to you have to have something that you want to say or something that you want to contribute or
26:10Something that you want to affect or change and you know
26:13I think there are so many people in the world that are looking for someone who looks like you like if someone you know is
26:19marginalized like nobody looks like me and that's why like
26:23for me to be a someone woman who's growing in in media, but
26:27I'm not known for being a football player
26:31WWE wrestlers, that's very new and it's and it's it's representation and representation is important
26:37So I always like to encourage people to create but create because you want to not because you want something
26:42like you should create your content or your art or whatever it is because you feel like you have something to say and contribute and
26:49And and strike change or something in the in the world
26:53Not because you want to get on brand trips
26:55Like that's not why you should know creating content
26:57It's and also a podcast like I feel like yeah, I think the the days are over
27:01You can just be like, oh, I'm talking about a subject
27:03I feel like you have to bring an audience like you have to be big you have to be famous or some level
27:08Yeah, then you can start podcasting and bring the audience
27:10Yeah, it's very hard to just be like, oh, I'm Steve and I'm really into XYZ
27:14Like you're not gonna get found and even there are some there are some influencers to that
27:18I've tried podcasting and they hate it. They're like actually I hate talking for that long
27:22I don't want to do that at all. So like it's it's not for everyone and that's okay
27:27I've told people like the best thing if you really want to grow an audience or you really feel that strongly that you have something
27:32To say it's it's to lean into being it sounds so corny but to be
27:36Authentically who you are there's only one Emma Chamberlain she's done. Yeah. Hey, there's only one she's got it
27:43There's only one me. You don't I mean, there's only one Brittany Broski
27:46There's only one of us like I don't be doing like an impersonation exactly
27:51I think when people see trends, especially as influencers or whatever
27:54The goal is to copy what seems to be working
27:57But it works for that person because that person is speaking to people on a very specific level
28:03Like there's not many people that do what I do
28:06So like obviously I stuck out a little bit more than probably, you know
28:11If I was lifestyle or beauty or whatever
28:12But also that's not my my passion like makeup and hair like I hire someone to do it for me
28:18I don't like I don't like to sit and document it cuz I you don't know how to do it. That's yeah
28:22That's not that's not my passion, right?
28:25So I think leaning into what makes you so uniquely you is the way that people grow following
28:31Good people I'll say that's how good people grow followings back to full back back full circle back to the NFL with your following
28:38Popularity your show. Yeah, if like ESPN called you to do some football and analysis would you would that be something you want to do?
28:43Oh, yeah
28:45God hit me up. I would love to do that. Put me on the table
28:48I want to set the little desk at the TNF Thursday Night Football. I'll sit there at the desk. There you go
28:54I endorse you. I think it's gonna happen put that in the universe. I want your advice on something
28:59So this is a new show we're doing on top creators. I'm excited because you know Forbes is a it's we're a business
29:05We're a great brand business, right?
29:07and I feel like a lot of creators and the creator economy isn't getting enough respect and
29:13I want we want to kind of create a show for business for creators like show for creators by creators
29:19Yeah, what should we what do you what would you want to know if you're gonna turn into like tune into like the Sports Center?
29:24Of the creator economy what like what kind of conversations you want to have?
29:28Well, like what what information do I hear from other people?
29:32You can be your creator and your your NFL hat on for this sure
29:36I mean as a creator like at the level I'm at now
29:40I would love to hear more from industry people on how they see
29:45How they see incorporating influencers or social media people in general more
29:50So as they the world start blending, I would love to see because what do you mean?
29:55What's it interesting person?
29:56what do you mean by like for like
29:57People who work at either brands or if they work in like TV or film or if they work at Forbes or if they work
30:03You know all these big outlets meet whether they're media outlets or their production
30:08I'm curious to see how they how they see the future of integrating influencers into their worlds because
30:14One of the first questions I ask when I work with people like for example my lawyer
30:18When I I have a fantastic lawyer
30:20But when I first met with her I asked her like do you have a lot of experience working with influencers?
30:25Same thing with my literary agent. Do you have a lot of experience working with influencers?
30:29It's very different like the way that we move
30:31We're the way I would move as opposed to someone who is a traditional actor
30:35Like I went to theater went to school for theater and got an agent and then now works as a full-time actor
30:41The way we move in the industry is completely different and also like what is your plan as far as incorporating more?
30:48Representation for people that don't all look the same. How would you how do you move different than a traditional actor?
30:54I think for me I have to be very cognizant of how I'm being perceived online
30:59I think a lot of traditional celebrities can ignore how they're being perceived online
31:02I can't so like it matters to me how I'm being marketed through whether it's a production company a brand
31:10Whatever it may be even a media outlet, too
31:12It matters how I'm being perceived because the majority of my following comes from the internet
31:18Gotcha, there are some celebrities that can they can have the worst things being said about them on the internet and it doesn't matter
31:23They're gonna be okay. Yeah
31:25They're like we don't even have social. Yeah, they're like, oh, I don't even pay attention to comments. I do I have to it's my job
31:31Yeah, right and I care that my audience feels taken care of and feels like you know that
31:37Everything is as is like it's all business as usual with me. Gotcha. So yeah
31:43What do you want to learn from other creators? They like of your echelon of your level. Ooh, I
31:48Just love to know what they're doing
31:50I love to know their tea, you know
31:51Like a lot of creators don't like to share like the different things that they've been working on which I get
31:55But there's certain obviously like some of my best friends are creators
31:58So like we share everything with each other what we're doing
32:01but I would love to know more about like what they're working on and how they got it because
32:06I think sharing is caring. There you go
32:08I'm a big like I think a lot of sometimes there is a
32:11Scarcity mindset to be had where they're like, oh if you know
32:15If too many people are here, then no one's gonna see me
32:17I don't feel that way at all because I quite honestly feel like I'm gonna shine regardless
32:22So the more the merrier take me out of the show here with what are you working on now? Give me your tea
32:26Oh, yeah, you gave me something, you know, yeah some breadcrumbs on the other
32:32What are you what's what's the newest latest with you the book is done? Yes, the book is done success. What's next?
32:38Definitely TV. I've been doing making some moves with TV and doing some odd comedy
32:44Yeah, actually, would you play yourself or would you like no to roll playing someone else? Wow. Yeah, which is very exciting
32:50Any other hands is like a is it like a period piece? You're playing like a I wish it was a settler
32:54I got your I don't know
32:57Old old Victorian old Victorian England
33:02Bridgerton yeah, yeah. Yeah put me in House of the Dragon. I want to be in there
33:06Me in there who cares put me in there somewhere. I don't care
33:10No, it's not a period piece it definitely takes place in in the here and now but I was also in a commercial
33:16Recently that's gonna be airing in like a month. I think
33:20For another sports entity that is not the NFL. Okay, so we have to wait and see for that one
33:25Yeah, you'll have to wait and see but we'll pick a ball bull riding. No, they won a gold medal this year though
33:30So, okay, we'll leave it at that. Yeah
33:33Well drew, thank you so much for joining. It was really fun. Thank you for having me awesome