Violence erupted in Nagpur on Monday over the grave of Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, who died 300 years ago.
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00:00The peaceful city of Nagpur on edge, arson, violence, vandalism, while a debate continues
00:17if it was police failure or conspiracy.
00:26The flashpoint was the grave of a Mughal emperor who died 300 years ago.
00:37A controversial figure who died 300 years ago.
00:46A city up in flames over a tyrant who died 300 years ago.
00:52Aurangzeb was undoubtedly a tyrant, a bigot and a cruel king.
00:58But 300 years on, is the name of Aurangzeb being weaponized in political discourse?
01:05To reinforce the historical wrong of Hindu oppression, to target Muslims, to justify the Hindutva narrative,
01:14Aurangzeb, an easy tool of distraction to serve present day ideological battles.
01:30Aurangzeb, used as a dog whistle to keep the communal pot boiling.
01:36To our focus on To The Point this evening.
01:40Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
01:45Our top debate this evening is Aurangzeb now being used as a trope in the current political discourse.
01:52All of that coming up. First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
01:59Chilling CCTV images of Nagpur riots. Large mob with weapons, pelting stones.
02:04Sharp weapons used by mass rioters to attack.
02:10A massive political showdown brews in Maharashtra.
02:14Maharashtra Chief Minister says pre-planned conspiracy.
02:18Mahagarhi claims Mahayati fanning the flames of riot.
02:27Prime Minister Modi lauds the Mahakumbh.
02:30Opposition attacks. Congress SP claim opposition gagged on Mahakumbh.
02:34Rahul Priyanka Sen not allowed to speak in Lok Sabha.
02:40U.S. Intel Chief Tulsi Gabbard praises PM Modi at twice in our dialogue.
02:47Says like Trump, Modi committed to nation first.
02:50By working together honestly, transparently and strategically,
02:55we can ensure a more peaceful, free, secure and prosperous future for our people and the world.
03:03Thank you so much. Aloha. Jai Shri Krishna.
03:10ED heat on certain groups.
03:13Open Society Foundation affiliated read it for its violation probe by ED on service links.
03:27Sunita Williams finally earthbound. Undocking completed.
03:31Sunita heads home. SpaceX flashdown expected 3.27 a.m. IST.
03:39Sunita heads home. SpaceX flashdown expected 3.27 a.m. IST.
04:09Rioters went on rampage in Nagpur on Monday.
04:15Vandalizing cars.
04:20Setting vehicles on fire.
04:25A day later, politicians are busy in a blame game.
04:28The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
04:39A day later, politicians are busy in a blame game.
04:42The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
04:45The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
04:48The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
04:51The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
04:54The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
04:57The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
05:00The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
05:03The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
05:06The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
05:08The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
05:10The Mahayati government alleged a conspiracy.
05:16Some in the ruling coalition claimed opposition hand.
05:21Special religious people gather in groups.
05:24They throw stones at the people.
05:28They hit police with axes.
05:32They break cars by seeing their surnames.
05:35Opposition leaders have been making statements for two days.
05:40Is this a conspiracy?
05:42Who is behind this conspiracy?
05:49The opposition on the other hand attacked the Fadnavis government.
05:52Accusing the ruling coalition of instigating the violent clashes.
05:58Opposition leaders should not make such statements.
06:07So that Maharashtra can be peaceful.
06:10Opposition leaders should not make such statements.
06:16So that Maharashtra can be peaceful.
06:21Nagpur's Guardian Minister Chandrashekhar Bawankule appeals for peace.
06:27Nagpur is calm after the mayhem on Monday.
06:54After many areas of the city were put under curfew with Ritwik Bhalekar, Abhijeet Karande
07:02and Piyush Mishra, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:11The fact viewers is that Aurangzeb undoubtedly was no saint, he was a tyrant, he was a bigot
07:16and he was a very cruel administrator.
07:19But having said that, should we continue to have riots in his name 300 years after he
07:25is dead?
07:27Should his name continuously be exploited in the name of politics, weaponized in the
07:31name of politics to attack a particular community or to settle political scores?
07:37I just want to take you through what the Deputy Chief Minister of Maharashtra said in assembly
07:41and outside.
07:43That if somebody praises Aurangzeb, then he should be charged with treason.
08:11We have both sides of the political divide continuing to fan the flames of polarization,
08:24especially in the name of Aurangzeb.
08:26Is it even fair?
08:27Where does the buck stop?
08:28Because if we start charging people with treason who praise Aurangzeb, then you can go all
08:34the way back to those who worship Ravan in this day and age and they come from our very
08:38own country.
08:39Vidisha, Mansoor, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Kanpur, Himachal Pradesh, Mandya, Karnataka,
08:46Mansoor, Rajasthan.
08:47There are Ravan temples where Ravan is worshipped.
08:51Where does the buck stop if we are charging people with treason for praising Aurangzeb
08:56in this day and age?
08:57And at the back of it, what Nagpur witnessed was nothing short of bizarre violence in the
09:03name of a tyrant who died 300 years ago.
09:07At the back of it, the questions that we ask this evening, is Aurangzeb being weaponized
09:11for political discourse?
09:13Something we've seen over and over again.
09:17Aurangzeb's name now being used as a dog whistle to keep the communal pot boiling, where we
09:23continue.
09:24Both sides of the divide make hateful statements against a particular community.
09:30What is wrong in reinforcing historical wrong of Hindu oppression is what many also suggest
09:37at this point of time.
09:38Let's take this debate to our panelists this evening.
09:40Joining me, Rajat Sethi, political commentator, Ashutosh, author, political analyst, Sudhir
09:45Suryavanshi, senior journalist, Ratan Sharda, author and analyst.
09:48I'd like to cut across to Sudhir Suryavanshi, senior journalist first, to give us a larger
09:53context on where we stand vis-a-vis Maharashtra, Nagpur.
09:57The riots or the arson vandalism was reported from Nagpur yesterday.
10:01Sudhir, in political context, can you translate why the sudden flare up when it comes down
10:08to Aurangzeb?
10:09Of course, there's a film, you know, in context of Chhawa, which had been released, which
10:13picked up in Maharashtra.
10:15On the other hand, the opposition says you're running out of funds for the likes of Ladli
10:19Bahin Yojana and these are all diversionary tactics.
10:22Priti, this is quite, you know, baffling questions for me as a political commentator and a journalist
10:31why this Aurangzeb Tom issue has been raised, that there is a relevance of the context of
10:37the Chhawa film that is there.
10:38But why so much has been, you know, flared by the political, particularly ruling establishment?
10:44I think the reason, you know, it's very difficult to find out the reason.
10:48But what I see in this context that, you know, BGP and the Mahayati has got a massive mandate.
10:55There is no, you know, virtually opposition in Maharashtra.
10:59The reason why this communal line has been played up, I think there is two things, you
11:04know, might be going in the mind of the, you know, top leadership of Maharashtra.
11:08You know, in the long run in the politics we have seen here, two kind of cards have
11:13been played.
11:14One is development card and second is Hindutva card.
11:18I think in the long run, both card has to be there.
11:21If you want to achieve something at the top level.
11:24I think these two things I can see here.
11:26And on the other hand, there is a competition among, particularly Mahayati, between Ekna
11:32Shinde and the Devendra Fadnavis also, with, you know, strong Hindutva, Chavanist leader
11:38that is there.
11:39And second important thing, what I see also, observe there, two kind of politics and the
11:45two kind of discourse has been played here.
11:48One discourse particularly is surrounded on the, you know, basis of the caste line and
11:54second is on Hindu-Muslim line.
11:57What is the caste line?
11:58If you see Aurangazeb, you know, there is one section of the historians who are close
12:03to the, you know, oppositions and they are also known as impartial historians said that
12:09due to the, you know, Brahmin, you know, person, somebody was trapped by the Aurangazeb and
12:16his death, brutal death happened.
12:19So that, that narrative has been developed to pitch Maratha or Bahujan versus Brahmin.
12:25But the second narrative has been pushed very heavily, particularly the ruling establishment.
12:31The Aurangazeb has been symbolized as the present Muslims and that has been flared up,
12:37particularly if you see the BGP minister, Nitesh Rane, he has made several controversial
12:43statement and his statement was, you know, also supported by the chief minister, Devendra
12:48Fernandes also.
12:49Rane is continuously making communal statement and he's in the, you know, power.
12:55So that, you know, raises the big questions, why they want all these things.
13:00And because of that, Maharashtra, which is already, you know, facing huge, more than
13:05eight lakh crore debt stock annually, they are paying almost 55,000 crore as the interest.
13:13Then there is unemployment rise, then eight farmers, you know, committing suicide in every
13:20week.
13:21So there are a lot of issues at the hand.
13:24But we people, particularly political, you know, section is indulging, you know, in the
13:30discourse of the foreign world, Mughal Empire, Aurangazeb.
13:35And that has been called as a diverted tactics or the focus from the main issues.
13:40You know, Sudhir, I'll just come.
13:41Thank you for putting it in context, especially where Maharashtra is concerned.
13:44But viewers, Aurangazeb is not only echoing just in Maharashtra, it's all across the country.
13:49We've seen what's happened in Uttar Pradesh as well.
13:51But I want to cut across and go to Rajat Sethi Ashutosh and bring in Ratan Sharda into this
13:55conversation.
13:56First up, Rajat Sethi, you know, one would think it's all right till the time the violence
14:02is restricted to social media.
14:04You know, there's trolling, you are talking about it, it's a bone of contention.
14:09But when it translates into tangibles that we see on ground, then we really have something
14:14to worry about.
14:15Nagpur, a relatively very peaceful city, is ablaze because of something that happened
14:21300 years ago.
14:23Well, let me start off by saying that Aurangazeb to Hindus is same as Hitler is to Jews.
14:32Let there be no two-siding on this topic.
14:36Let us not come up with historians, so to say, neutral historians are trying to provide
14:40certain nuances.
14:41It is as black and white as it is.
14:44If there is a group today which stands up and says that Hitler was great, is being socially
14:49ostracized in any kind of a sensible place.
14:54And that is a matter of fact.
14:56Now here, there is one film which comes out, which duly passes all the certification, and
15:02there is freedom of expression.
15:04They came out with a film.
15:05There are certain groups which will of course get agitated about it.
15:08But the real trouble started with somebody, I believe it was Abu Azmi who is a Samajwadi
15:13party leader who comes out praising Aurangazeb.
15:16And I believe for all the atrocities that he, Aurangazeb has committed, why should Hindus
15:21forget?
15:22Why is there an attempt consistently to corner the Hindu community that you have suffered,
15:26so be it, forget about it.
15:28Has there been any kind of a reconciliation thought process in this country ever?
15:32No, it has never happened.
15:34And even in this discussion, I am seeing that you have attempted to both side the narrative,
15:39what the Hindus on the street in Nagpur to try and flame up violence over there.
15:43Why should Hindu do the sort of suffer in this narrative battle that is again being
15:48trying to project in the same way that both the communities are trying to come in?
15:52Of course, I personally feel going and digging up the tomb is not going to result in anything.
15:58There is nothing left 300 years hence below that tomb to remove that tombstone.
16:04That is my personal opinion.
16:05It doesn't take away the core feelings that the Hindu community still faces, feels against
16:11Aurangazeb.
16:12And there have been concerted efforts largely from the opposition party to stoke those insecurities
16:17that Hindus have.
16:18This is trying to mock the sufferings that our ancestors have gone through consistently.
16:24And this has been the narrative.
16:25We saw it in our educational books, systematically for decades, this whitewashing had been done.
16:33And tomorrow, if a film on Tipu Sultan comes, will you again allow this both-siding narrative
16:38to go on?
16:39Oh, Hindus and Muslims are both responsible for this.
16:40All right.
16:41You know, the other side of the...
16:42Okay, fair point.
16:43We should try and have a very mature understanding of who caused the riots.
16:47If we don't have the answers, let's be quiet.
16:48Okay.
16:49No, the point...
16:50No, no, no.
16:51One second.
16:52Rajat Sethi, the both sides of the narrative is very clear that you're using it, you're
16:54using Aurangzeb as a dog whistle to attack a particular community, and it is happening.
16:58You...
16:59No, no, no.
17:00That is one side of the narrative if you're going to say it's not happening.
17:01All right.
17:02Allow me to open up the debate.
17:03Allow me to...
17:04All right.
17:05My job as a journalist, sir, my job as a journalist is to put both sides of the narrative.
17:10You have put your side, let me get another side.
17:13I want to bring in Ashutosh into this conversation.
17:15Ashutosh, with what Rajat Sethi says, that the pendulum clearly has swung so far right
17:21that there has been so much gaslighting, and now it's going to swing right.
17:26And therefore, you see what you do see.
17:28It's reinforcing of what, in terms of oppression, was when it came down to Hindus.
17:34See, Preeti, I completely agree with Rajat Sethi.
17:39Rarely I agree with him.
17:42I completely agree with Rajat Sethi when he says that Hitler cannot be eulogized.
17:47Agree, completely agree.
17:51Absolutely, no, no, no question on that.
17:55But history also tells us that those who supported Hitler's, their coteries, their ministers,
18:05they were also tried at the Nuremberg trial and they were hanged.
18:09Hitler committed suicide.
18:14What about Jaswant Singh?
18:17Who trapped Shivaji?
18:19It was Mirza Raja Jai Singh.
18:21There is a city called Jaipur.
18:23There is a lady called minister, belongs to that Raja Jai Singh.
18:29So you can't have a segregation that Aurangzeb was bad, but Mirza Raja Jai Singh was brilliant.
18:38You know, this narrative is basically a dangerous narrative.
18:43If you are condemning Aurangzeb, please condemn.
18:46If you want to remove that Mazar, please remove, dig it out like the Bamiyan was done.
18:53That's a part of ideology.
18:55But the issue is, what are you going to do with Mirza Raja Jai Singh?
18:59What are you going to do with Jaswant Singh?
19:02He was also a Sipa Salar and the highest, Sabse Bada Mansabdar was Jai Singh.
19:08What are you going to do with him?
19:10So for you, Jai Singh is a sacred fellow.
19:15Nobody should talk about him because he's a Hindu.
19:17No, the traitor is a traitor is a traitor, whether he's a Hindu or a Muslim or the Christian
19:23or a Sikh.
19:24If Aurangzeb did what he did with Maharaja Shivaji's descendants and with Shivaji, he
19:32did it because Jai Singh was there, because Jaswant Singh was there.
19:36So this is very hypocritical.
19:38This is basically to create anarchy in the society, to create hatred against a particular
19:44community.
19:45Nothing else.
19:46Otherwise, I can't believe this.
19:47At the center, there is a Modi government.
19:48In Maharashtra, there is a Devan Fadnavis government.
19:49Nagpur belongs to Nitin Gadkari, a powerful minister.
19:50Nagpur belongs to the RSS.
19:51Nagpur belongs to Devan Fadnavis.
19:52And still the riot is happening.
19:53That's how incompetent it could be.
19:54All right.
19:55Allow me to bring in Ratan Sharda also into this conversation.
19:56Ratan Sharda, the fact is, when the deputy chief minister says that if you praise Aurangzeb
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25:21you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:24you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:27you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:30you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:33you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:36you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:39you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:42you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:45you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:48you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:51you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:54you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
25:57you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart, you have a good heart,
26:01You want to hang the current minister?
26:04You want to hang the current minister?
26:07You want to hang the current minister?
26:10You want to hang the current minister?
26:13You want to hang the current minister?
26:16You want to hang the current minister?
26:19You want to hang the current minister?
26:22You want to hang the current minister?
26:25You want to hang the current minister?
26:28You want to hang the current minister?
26:31You want to hang the current minister?
26:34You want to hang the current minister?
26:37You want to hang the current minister?
26:40You want to hang the current minister?
26:43You want to hang the current minister?
26:46You want to hang the current minister?
26:49You want to hang the current minister?
26:52You want to hang the current minister?
26:55You want to hang the current minister?
26:58You want to hang the current minister?
27:01You want to hang the current minister?
27:04You want to hang the current minister?
27:07You want to hang the current minister?
27:10You want to hang the current minister?
27:13You want to hang the current minister?
27:16You want to hang the current minister?
27:19You want to hang the current minister?
27:22You want to hang the current minister?
27:25You want to hang the current minister?
27:28You want to hang the current minister?
27:31You want to hang the current minister?
27:34You want to hang the current minister?
27:37You want to hang the current minister?
27:40You want to hang the current minister?
27:43You want to hang the current minister?
27:46You want to hang the current minister?
27:49You want to hang the current minister?
27:52You want to hang the current minister?
27:55You want to hang the current minister?
27:58You want to hang the current minister?
28:01You want to hang the current minister?
28:04You want to hang the current minister?
28:07You want to hang the current minister?
28:10You want to hang the current minister?
28:13You want to hang the current minister?
28:16You want to hang the current minister?
28:19You want to hang the current minister?
28:22You want to hang the current minister?
28:25You want to hang the current minister?
28:28You want to hang the current minister?
28:31You want to hang the current minister?
28:34You want to hang the current minister?
28:37You want to hang the current minister?
28:40You want to hang the current minister?
28:43You want to hang the current minister?
28:46You want to hang the current minister?
28:49You want to hang the current minister?
28:52You want to hang the current minister?
28:55You want to hang the current minister?
28:58You want to hang the current minister?
29:01You want to hang the current minister?
29:04You want to hang the current minister?
29:07You want to hang the current minister?
29:10Or is it more important to know alerts not to go to jail?
29:15If you accuse Aurangzeb of harming children
29:18you claim he is a terrorist
29:21what are your views regarding that?
29:24If you accuse Aurangzeb of harming children
29:27and claim he is a terrorist
29:30then you should also have a malicious attitude
29:33by blaming Aurangzeb for all of this.
29:36Or you should have been honest
29:39you should not be seen to be sparing Mirza Raja Jaising.
29:42There was more than 33% of entire bureaucracy
29:47was part of the Hindus.
29:49And among all the Muslim, among all the Mughal rulers,
29:53when Akbar had 33% of the Hindu senior officials,
29:58Aurangzeb had 37% Hindu ruler.
30:01He could rule India.
30:02Now let me come, let me come.
30:03He could rule India.
30:04He could trap Shivaji with the help of Jai Singh
30:10and Jaswant Singh.
30:11What is RSM stand on Mirza Raja Jaising and Jaswant Singh?
30:14Unless they spill it out, unless they condemn it,
30:17unless they condemn the whole narrative
30:19which has been spread.
30:20If you're condemning Aurangzeb's children,
30:22then what about Jaising and Jaswant Singh's children?
30:25Okay, I wanna bring in Ratan Sharda
30:27into this conversation.
30:28One and a half minutes, Ratan Sharda,
30:30that you have do conclude.
30:31The fact is nobody's saying don't talk about Aurangzeb.
30:34Nobody is saying highlight what he did.
30:36Have all those conversations.
30:38But when hypocrisy sets in is because it's suddenly treason.
30:42If you say anything, you know, which is a pro Aurangzeb
30:46and yet you are standing with those who, you know,
30:49openly come out and stood with the killers of Mahatma.
30:56I do not know who stood up with killers of Mahatma.
30:58Please don't abuse indirectly.
31:00Sorry, sir.
31:00Secondly.
31:01Nobody's abusing anyone.
31:02Nobody appreciates Godse, you're talking to me.
31:04No, no, I'm not talking to you, sir.
31:06I'm talking, no, no, no, one second.
31:08I don't think, okay, Ratan Sharda,
31:09either you wanna twist my statement.
31:12You've only come here for that.
31:14You can't do that because it's my show.
31:15So let me also tell you what I meant to say.
31:17I will clarify because you said something.
31:21So allow me that.
31:23When I said, who said treason, sir?
31:26The deputy chief minister.
31:27Who's he standing besides?
31:29Nitesh Rane.
31:30Who praised the killers of Godse?
31:32Nitesh Rane.
31:32Have I made myself clear?
31:33Go ahead.
31:34Okay.
31:35First of all, since Ashutosh asked,
31:38nobody in RSS ever appreciate Mirza Raje Siddiqa.
31:41Second, Mirza Raje, second point.
31:43We don't look at the global picture.
31:45Why is Muslim agitated all over the world?
31:48Why does Muslim go on riot in UK?
31:50There is no RSS.
31:51Germany, no RSS.
31:53Sweden, no BJP.
31:55France, no BJP.
31:56Nigeria, Kenya.
31:58Why there is no BJP?
31:59Why they are writing there without any pause,
32:02without any pause on every provocation?
32:04So try to understand the minds of Muslim leaders
32:07who keep on instigating Muslim masses
32:10who suffer because of them.
32:12And again, I say, the conversation is fine.
32:15Tippani is fine, as Ashutosh put it.
32:18Does it lead to violence?
32:19Should it lead to the stoning?
32:21Should it lead to burning of the cars?
32:22That should not be allowed.
32:24Whether it's Hindu or Muslim, it should not be allowed.
32:26But clearly, Nagpur is totally one-sided.
32:30Should CA have led to daily riots?
32:32Should a cricket match have led to riots in Mahua?
32:35No.
32:36So there is certain mindset with the leaders who
32:39instigate these people.
32:40On a Friday namaz, they use them as firing tools.
32:46We should not do it, as simple as that.
32:48OK, fair point.
32:49You raised a question.
32:49Ashutosh, you only have 10 seconds to answer,
32:51because you want to come in with what?
32:5410 seconds, sir.
32:55I just want to correct Raghatan Shardaji, the Germany,
32:57America, and all.
32:59Yes, there is the Muslim immigrants.
33:02But what is happening over there,
33:04it's a resentment against immigrants.
33:06And those immigrants were sent from USA to India.
33:09So they were there.
33:11Rajat Sethi wanted to come in.
33:12Rajat Sethi, I'm going to allow you just exactly the same time
33:15as Ashutosh.
33:1610 seconds, Rajat Sethi.
33:18It's news, not mythology.
33:19Sorry.
33:21See, the comparisons that you're trying to make repeatedly,
33:26be it Raman or Godse, these are like,
33:31you have to contextualize the current discussion.
33:34And I don't see where is that context heading towards.
33:37We're just trying to bring in any random example anywhere
33:39in the world and try to juxtapose it.
33:40No, it's not a random example.
33:41But I really have to try to explain it in the beginning.
33:43It doesn't juxtapose well.
33:4610 seconds, sir, is what you had.
33:48I need to close the bulletin.
33:49You posed the question I wish I could go into.
33:51It's not a random example.
33:52It really is not a random example.
33:54It is not hypocrisy at the same level.
33:57It does.
33:57You can have conversations around Aurangzeb.
34:00He was a tyrant.
34:01But to charge people with treason,
34:02that's a big question mark, especially when you stand
34:05with those who have praised the killers of Mahatma Gandhi.
34:09Number one.
34:09Where you talk about how far back are we going to go?
34:12Are we going to start charging people with treason
34:14who praise Ravan in this country?
34:17Anyway, I'm going to leave it at that.
34:18That's all the time I have for now.
34:20I apologize.
34:21Well, in all probability, viewers,
34:23this will be struck down when it comes down
34:25to the top court of the country, like it
34:27has been with other states.
34:28But the questions that we pose this evening
34:31for our political face-off, Telangana reservation
34:33bid, political posturing and actual real intent,
34:36knowing very well that it will be struck down
34:38by the top court.
34:40Will Telangana reservation bid set a precedent
34:43for other states?
34:45This is the first time that a state
34:47has conducted its own survey, and on the basis of that,
34:51announced a reservation for backward cuts.
34:53Will other states also follow?
34:56And what could be the political fallout of that?
34:58And lastly, is a question that most of us ask.
35:02Reservation versus meritocracy debate reignited once again.
35:07Because if this reservation is possible in Telangana,
35:10it will take the quota in Telangana from 50%
35:15to over 73%, nearly close to 75%.
35:19What happens to the general caste category?
35:22Let's cut across to our face-off this evening.
35:24N.V. Subhash, spokesperson BJP.
35:26Srinivas Reddy, spokesperson Congress.
35:28Both of them join us.
35:30I want to cut across to Mr. Srinivas Reddy.
35:33Srinivas Reddy, many suggest that this was a trope
35:36you floated.
35:36It's anyway going to be struck down
35:39by the top court of the country,
35:40and there is no real intent behind it.
35:45Good evening, Preeti.
35:47First of all, I would like to say that
35:51this is a poll promise which has been made
35:52by the Congress even before the elections.
35:56And there was always a long-pending demand
35:58of the backward classes in Telangana
36:01to increase the reservation from their existing 29%
36:06to 42%.
36:07It was a long-pending demand of the BC group.
36:10And I do not say that it is not going to face
36:14any legal battle or anything of that sort.
36:17But definitely if the center agrees,
36:20we definitely have a say in that.
36:22When Tamil Nadu can do it at 69%, why not Telangana?
36:25Telangana definitely also.
36:27And we are not talking just like that.
36:29We have done a caste census, a scientific census
36:33of the Telangana community.
36:34We have done a caste census,
36:36a scientifically designed caste census.
36:38And based on the reports of the caste census,
36:42we have found out that the backward classes in Telangana
36:47are close to about 56.33%.
36:51And it's only like we are not trying
36:53to give anything extra to them.
36:55We are only trying to balance what is there
36:58as for the caste census.
36:59So I don't think saying that it is a political appeasement
37:04or politically appeasing move is right.
37:08We are trying to do some social justice here.
37:10Congress party has always been for social justice
37:13and we are trying to do social justice
37:16and try to balance the equations
37:19in the, as per the caste census report.
37:25That is what we have-
37:26But Mr. Reddy, you're giving the example of Tamil Nadu,
37:29but Tamil Nadu is the only anomaly
37:30because Maharashtra, Odisha,
37:32it's all been struck down in those states.
37:36Tamil Nadu, if you have seen,
37:37they have taken their shelter
37:39under the ninth schedule of the constitution.
37:43So probably Telangana, we are also,
37:45we might try to get,
37:47we are asking the center's support for that
37:49because Tamil Nadu, by an amendment to the constitution,
37:53they have now, their act,
37:55whatever the Tamil Nadu Act, it was-
37:58Okay.
38:00Tamil Nadu Act 45 of 94, it was-
38:03I'll come back to it.
38:04I'll come back to the ninth amendment
38:06and why you'd want to push this reservation through.
38:10I want to cut across to N. V. Subhash,
38:12spokesperson BJP.
38:13Mr. Subhash, in principle,
38:15the BJP Telangana unit has supported this bill,
38:19which has been mooted by the Congress Telangana,
38:22but in the larger context, N. V. Subhash,
38:25will this be deeply problematic for the BJP
38:28because now multiple states
38:30can come up with their own caste survey
38:32and decide on reservation based on that?
38:35This could set a dangerous precedent, many say.
38:39Exactly.
38:40Priti, good evening and good evening to all.
38:43This is, you know, the politically sensitive issue
38:46and it is the emotive nature of the issue.
38:49So the Bharti Yantra Party Telangana has approved,
38:52you know, the supported bill,
38:54which has been tabled yesterday by Honorable Chief Minister,
38:57Mr. Ravindra Reddy.
39:00First of all, I would like to, you know, comment on this
39:03because the way they have done the caste survey,
39:06it is not scientifically approved
39:09because when we see the application form,
39:12there is a blank, you know,
39:14about the people had some choice
39:18that, you know, whether they can fill up the caste
39:21and, you know, the sub-caste also.
39:23So when the invaders have gone towards, you know,
39:26the city all over the state,
39:28they have been, you know,
39:32uproar among the people
39:33and then many people have not really filled up
39:36this application.
39:39The second thing, what we have been telling that,
39:41you know, this is not being done scientifically
39:44because of various reasons.
39:46And the Bharti Yantra Party in the previous elections,
39:48in 2023 assembly elections also,
39:50we have categorically, you know,
39:53declared that the Bharti Yantra Party's candidate
39:56will be, you know, the DC candidate
39:58will be the chief minister of the state.
39:59So when we see about the constitution of our party,
40:03we have given a lot of many people
40:06who have been, you know, given the choice
40:10and then they have been appointed in the party's position
40:13as well as MLAs and MPs also
40:15when they have gone for the parliament and assembly elections.
40:18What we fail to understand,
40:19why Revan Reddy is so sensitive about it,
40:22when we see his cabinet composition.
40:25There are only two pieces, the two pieces is pretty.
40:29This is where he has been telling to the people.
40:32Okay.
40:33And he says that, you know,
40:34he is very much interested about the development of VCs
40:38when his own cabinet is completely about, you know,
40:41the parliament.
40:42All right, I'll come back to you.
40:42I want to go back to the Congress spokesperson.
40:44Questions are being raised
40:46on how you've conducted this caste census,
40:49not just by the BJP, Mr. Reddy,
40:49you even know by some of your own sitting MLAs
40:53that you've suspended, number one.
40:55Number two, the bigger question, Mr. Reddy,
40:57is that, is this lazy politics?
41:00You want to do it for the sake of doing it,
41:02which ups then the quota to over 73%.
41:05You might call it social justice,
41:07but ultimately what happens to the general category?
41:10You're only left to play with 27%.
41:13What about meritocracy?
41:15I would like to address this issue,
41:17but we are not saying that the general category
41:22is going to be suppressed.
41:23We are only trying to get it to a level playing field
41:26because what is happening here is these backward classes,
41:29which did not have the opportunity so far.
41:34We are trying to give them an opportunity
41:36by increasing the caste.
41:39You know, the percentage of the backward classes
41:44and SCs, STs and all.
41:47So they will be getting more opportunities
41:49to come on to the level playing field
41:52and they will be more represented.
41:54It is not like the general category is going to be,
41:58based on the population, based on the census report,
42:01based on the reports which we have,
42:03it is purely based on the data which we have
42:07that we have gone ahead and done this.
42:10And saying that the caste census was not done properly,
42:15I don't think is agreeable
42:17because it was done in a very scientific way.
42:19In a way, a different...
42:21The larger question was also
42:22that you haven't really given any representation
42:24in your own cabinet.
42:25So if there is actual intent, you'll at least show it
42:27in terms of representation in your own cabinet.
42:3110 seconds, sir.
42:35These are the first steps towards that.
42:38Definitely the representation in the cabinets
42:40will also be made at a later point in time.
42:43Many...
42:44Okay, Mr. Reddy, many would have thought
42:46that should have come first and then the call for quota.
42:49But I want to go back to Mr. Subhash
42:50and Mr. Subhash, you didn't answer that question
42:52because what you've done at a state level
42:56by supporting the quota mooted by the Congress Tehrangana
43:01could be dangerous for the center
43:04which you have your government in
43:05because then each state would come up
43:07with their own caste survey
43:08and say this precedent already.
43:11Yeah, see, this is very specific issue.
43:16The chief minister has all the prerogative
43:18to implement this and then send to the governor
43:21for approval on that.
43:22But instead, knowingly, very clearly
43:24that there is a case between the 1992 Supreme Court judgment
43:28about Indra Thani case and the rest of India.
43:32There is a case in the Supreme Court
43:34about 50% resecretion cannot be exited.
43:38Leave alone Tamil Nadu.
43:39But the Maharashtra, they have implemented,
43:41they wanted to do it in 2018 and 2023,
43:44but the Supreme Court has rejected elsewhere in Bihar
43:48and in Odisha also.
43:50Knowing all this, the revocative government
43:54wanted to defend themselves that they are the savior
43:58for the backward classes and that.
44:00And when we are seeking the appointment
44:02of the Honorable Prime Minister,
44:03the Honorable Prime Minister is aware,
44:05the government of India is aware about all these cases
44:10and there is a dissent about it.
44:12So there is very, very, it's a sensitive issue about it.
44:15All right, okay.
44:16All that is, you know, it is a sensitive issue
44:19and it's a political hot potato at that.
44:22We're gonna leave it at that.
44:23Appreciate both our panelists for joining us.
44:25I just wanna tell our viewers,
44:27with what the Telangana government is proposing
44:30is a 23% rise in the existing quota
44:33for the backward classes,
44:34which will up the total quota in the state of Telangana
44:38from what was 50% earlier now to really close to 75%,
44:41between 73 to 75%.
44:43Very little would be left for the general cast.
44:47So at one end, they will be the champions of social justice,
44:51but then they're also facing off
44:52with the champions of meritocracy.
44:54Where do our viewers stand on that?
44:56We'll let you decide.