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00:00Shams, NBA Countdown, ESPN, talking Jimmy Butler.
00:04He does feel like this organization is better than any other organization he's been a part of,
00:09but I'm telling you it's different this time.
00:12I haven't sensed the same feeling he's had when he went to Philly, when he went to Miami.
00:15This is different for Jimmy Butler going to Golden State.
00:18He's staying late for shoot-arounds, he's staying late for practices,
00:20he's spending so much time in the training room, the meal room,
00:23like he's going above and beyond to ingratiate himself with the Warriors right now.
00:27Okay, now, Steve Ashburner, NBA.com, comes on with Stiney and Goon,
00:31says this about your honeymoon phase.
00:33Enjoy the honeymoon, you know.
00:35This gets down to the situation of, are you going to believe what he says about the fifth wife,
00:40or are you going to believe how it worked out with all the first four wives?
00:43You know, I think that Jimmy Butler is, I don't know how to say it,
00:47he sort of burns through relationships, seems to me.
00:52Okay, so there's that.
00:54Then this is the one that got me going, Dibbs,
00:57and this is the one I really, really want to respond to,
01:02because I have not, until this point, felt the need to defend Jimmy Butler.
01:08Jimmy does not need my defense, he's fine,
01:11but this is the first time I arrived at this parking spot.
01:16Listen to Ashburner talk about coming down on the Warriors for making this deal.
01:22First he said he would go to any of the 29 teams other than Miami.
01:25Then he said, nah, to Milwaukee, nah, to Golden State.
01:29He wanted Phoenix because he believed they would pay him, give him the extension.
01:32And then the Warriors, I mean, frankly, personally,
01:35I find it disappointing that the Warriors satisfied that sort of low character,
01:41you know, strategy in terms of getting what he wanted.
01:45It's like being undercut, you're trying to discipline your child.
01:48And I'm fine putting it into those terms because of the way he's behaved.
01:51You're trying to discipline your child, and then your spouse says,
01:54oh, no, no, no, don't worry about what dad or mom said, do it this way.
01:57You know, high-class organization, but to me that was a localized decision.
02:01They got what they wanted, I guess, and if money is no object, that's fine.
02:04I'll just say enjoy it now, because two years from now, or even a year from now,
02:10if Jimmy Butler thinks that he should have a contract paying him until age 42 or 43,
02:15he could go through this whole thing again.
02:17Bring it. Fine. Who cares?
02:20I don't care what happens two years from now.
02:22That's when this whole thing...
02:23It'd be sooner than that, to his point.
02:25But look...
02:26It would be about a year from now.
02:28But this is a short-term commitment in terms of most extensions to Jimmy Butler.
02:34This is, like, completely out of pocket, if you ask me, from Steve Ashburner.
02:39This is unfair on multiple levels.
02:41First of all, you do not come down the Warriors' road for looking out for their interests.
02:46That's what a business does.
02:48They're about winning basketball games.
02:50They're not going to hold it against Jimmy because he supposedly did something to another organization.
02:55Secondly, if Jimmy Butler does go sideways in a year and a half, or two years, or whatever,
03:03first of all, I wouldn't predict that, but if that does happen, quite frankly, so what?
03:08That's a fair tradeoff based on what they're getting now,
03:11which feels like the extension of Steph Curry's career.
03:15Last, and maybe most importantly, is this.
03:18This is just another example, and we get plenty of them, of, for some reason,
03:25people out in the world, like you and me, and Steve,
03:30who are employees of major conglomerate organizations,
03:35for some reason, when we see an athlete get upset at their conglomerate,
03:42we always side with the conglomerate.
03:45It's the oddest thing to me.
03:47We ask players, you're getting paid millions.
03:50You should get your butt in there and be there for your teammates,
03:55and we especially do it in the NBA.
03:57I asked you this earlier.
03:59I haven't had anybody give me a good answer yet.
04:01What's the difference between Jimmy Butler and Trent Williams?
04:04Trent Williams...
04:05Well, there's a lot.
04:06What? He made his way to the 49ers.
04:08I've never heard anyone ever go,
04:11I can't believe Trent Williams left his Washington teammates high and dry.
04:14Nobody's ever said that.
04:16It's the same situation.
04:17Well, I thought you were talking about this year with Trent Williams.
04:19No, I'm talking about...
04:21Because this year he held out.
04:23He sat there in Washington.
04:25He thought whatever was being fed to him was a big bunch of bull,
04:28and he said, I'm not putting my body through this for you.
04:30You're not treating me right.
04:32Well, there's a lot different because Washington, as we now know,
04:35was an organization run by an owner who, while maybe not criminal,
04:40maybe criminal, but completely emotionally and morally corrupt,
04:44and a franchise that was broken in so many ways.
04:49And Miami's not that.
04:50Miami has a heat culture.
04:53They've got the heat identity,
04:55and it's one that he helped them go to two NBA finals.
04:58So it's not like all of a sudden what the heat had was corrupt
05:03or corrosive from the inside.
05:05So I do think the organization matters a lot when we look at the different situations.
05:11And you know what Trent Williams did?
05:13He sat out a year.
05:14Fine, sit out a year.
05:16And he gave up a full year of pay,
05:18and he was okay with it to get himself out of that situation.
05:21And what Jimmy Butler did is Jimmy decided that he would act in a way repeatedly
05:27to where they had to suspend him.
05:29And when he came back, then he skipped a flight,
05:32and then he did another thing.
05:33This is all in the middle of the season.
05:35This is not in the offseason.
05:36Understood.
05:37These are two completely different things.
05:38Trent Williams missed an entire season,
05:40so that covers the middle of the season.
05:42I never heard anyone say you're not there for your teammates.
05:45Maybe they said it in Washington.
05:46In Washington, I'm sure they did.
05:47Maybe they did.
05:48Maybe they did.
05:49But you make a very good point.
05:51I bet now people would look back on that differently
05:53because it was an awful organization then being run by an absolute tyrant of a human being,
05:58like a horrible, horrible human being.
06:01And now let's talk about heat culture for a second.
06:03I'm not an expert on it.
06:04I'm not an expert on it.
06:06I know it's this well-respected organization in sports,
06:09but if I'm Jimmy Butler and I look at anything that has happened in Miami
06:15since LeBron James, aren't I sitting there thinking to myself,
06:19I'm sorry, are we good because of heat culture or are we good because of me?
06:27And now you're not valuing me.
06:30That's going to tick me off.
06:32And now Jimmy Butler leaves.
06:34How's our heat culture doing?
06:36We're 26 and 30.
06:37They have not achieved a damn thing without Jimmy Butler since LeBron James left town.
06:43So why do we still sit here over and over?
06:46Oh, the heat.
06:47What an amazing organization.
06:50I mean, sure, they've got a track record.
06:52Jimmy Pat Riley is a huge name, but he also sounds like a handful himself.
06:57Don't you think he sounds like he might be difficult to work for at times?
07:02Well, he's demanding.
07:03Yeah.
07:04Sure.
07:05Okay.
07:06Well, that's all Jimmy is.
07:07And Jimmy was fine with it until you got to a point where now you want to get your bag
07:10and they don't want to give you the bag, and so now I'm going to do what I do
07:14and get suspended and then I'm not going to show up for a plane
07:17and I'm going to skip out on a practice and go get dressed in the locker room.
07:21I think you're being a little too dismissive of what Jimmy did there
07:24over the course of a short term.
07:26I think you're being a little dismissive of what Jimmy Butler does.
07:29How can we sit here and fawn over these first six games because he's a complete game changer
07:35and then give Miami a pass when they're like, we don't want to pay you?
07:39Well, they were paying him.
07:41No.
07:42And they had him on a player option, so they were paying him.
07:45They did pay him.
07:47That's not how sports works.
07:48He wouldn't even play out the end of his contract.
07:50That's not how sports works.
07:51It's everywhere.
07:52It's how sports works when a player decides that they want to play out their contract,
07:55and when he decides he doesn't want to play out his contract, yes, part of it is on the team,
08:00but it's also on him because you're under contract,
08:03and if you want to act the way you want to act, they suspended him,
08:08and they could have just toed the line and said, you know what, we're not trading you,
08:12which would have been foolish because at least now you got Wiggins and a pick
08:16and you got a little bit more, but he was the one who prompted them to do that.
08:20Do you think they really wanted to trade Jimmy Butler?
08:22There's no way they wanted to trade Jimmy Butler.
08:25There's no way you can sit here and tell me that you know the sequence of events.
08:29You can't do that, and I can't do that.
08:31We don't know.
08:32I can tell you the sequence of suspensions.
08:34That's fine.
08:35I don't care about that.
08:36I can tell you how he got suspended three different times.
08:38I can tell you that he missed a flight.
08:40Right, but that's just somebody in a power struggle.
08:42That's all that is, and for whatever reason,
08:45I don't know why we fall in line and go, oh, the organization is the parent.
08:51Then they get to do whatever they want, and the player doesn't,
08:55when all of us damn well know what makes organizations the players.
08:59Whose side would we all be on if Steph Curry got into a fight with the Warriors?
09:03We'd all be on Steph's side.
09:05He's the reason all of this happens, to quote Andre Iguodala.
09:09It depends on how it goes about it,
09:11because when Draymond Green got in a fight with the organization,
09:15and more technically he got in a fight with a fellow player,
09:18we all weren't on Draymond's side.
09:20That's a very different situation.
09:21Many people were on Jordan Poole, and many people were on Draymond's side
09:25talking about how he had it coming to him,
09:27and we've heard that more times than you would like to acknowledge
09:31because it's not a very comfortable narrative,
09:34but many people believe that, and the organization,
09:37they were on Draymond's side.
09:39He didn't get suspended, and then the guy who got popped in the face,
09:42he got traded.
09:43So all these things are not created equally,
09:46and Pat Riley is a guy from the old school
09:49who wasn't going to kowtow to what Jimmy Butler wanted
09:53until you got to a point where you realized you had no choice.
09:56I am not sitting here telling you that Jimmy Butler didn't do anything wrong.
10:00I don't know.
10:01My point is I don't understand why it's just the fallback
10:05that we automatically decide that only Jimmy did something wrong.
10:09How is that even possible?
10:11And why do we come down someone's road for speaking up for themselves
10:15if they feel like they're not being wanted
10:18or taken care of the way they deserve?
10:20Jimmy Butler has been the heat for six years, period.
10:24Period.
10:25Like, that's the dude.
10:27And so you have to have that conversation before your contract is up.
10:33Miss me with this idea of play your contract out, sir.
10:36It's not how it works.
10:37It's not how it works anyway.
10:38Well, you have the conversation, and then you decide what you want to do.
10:42Klay Thompson had that conversation, and how did he act?
10:45Yes, he pouted.
10:46Right, and how did that work out for the Warriors?
10:48Well, I don't know.
10:49It didn't work out well.
10:51The season went nowhere, and then they ended up trading him anyway.
10:54Part of that was that they didn't want him anymore either.
10:58Like, that's all I'm saying.
11:00A player absolutely, if not felt wanted within an organization,
11:05he gets to speak to that,
11:07and he gets to press on the power buttons that he has.
11:10You can do whatever you want.
11:12You can do it.
11:13I can do it.
11:14And anybody else here in the station, you can do it.
11:18And based on what your import is, your relative import,
11:22how they see you and your import,
11:24it can work in any company across the country.
11:27Anybody can do that.
11:28It doesn't make it right,
11:29and it doesn't mean that you're necessarily going to get what you want.
11:33It doesn't make it wrong either.
11:34It just makes it what you want to do.
11:37You can do it.
11:38I can do it.
11:39And we can try to do whatever we think.
11:41We can leverage whatever power we think we have.
11:44You're allowed to do it.
11:46You're a human being in a corporation in a free country,
11:49and he chose to do this.
11:51And you know what?
11:52It worked out for him, and it worked out for the Warriors.
11:55And the one thing about Steve Ashburner and his comments,
11:57talking about it was almost like a shame on you, Warriors.
12:01Totally.
12:02Which is absurd.
12:03It's absurd.
12:04Because in a closed set of teams, you've got 30 teams,
12:08and really if Jimmy Butler is going to do what he does
12:11and you want to think about how many teams are actually viable for Jimmy Butler,
12:17it's about six, maybe even fewer than that,
12:20because Miami wouldn't trade him to New York.
12:23Miami wouldn't trade him to a lot of different teams,
12:26so the set of teams where Jimmy Butler could actually force his way,
12:31it's a very small number.
12:32They would have wanted to send him to the West, yeah, preferably.
12:35Right.
12:36You wouldn't send him to Cleveland.
12:37You wouldn't send him to New York.
12:39I don't know what they would have done.
12:40If faced with the idea of just sitting there holding the bag,
12:43I don't know what they would have done.
12:45Super chat from Ion.
12:47Maybe Miami suspended Jimmy so that they wouldn't have to pay him.
12:51Also keeps him from getting injured and less valued in a trade.
12:54Very fair point.
12:56That's really what I'm getting at.
12:58We really should not, and Steve Ashburner should not either,
13:03act like you know what happened behind the scenes.
13:06I don't know who Steve is talking to.
13:08Maybe he's talking to somebody in Miami
13:10who probably has a shaded and jaded view of this whole thing.
13:14Everybody's got their story.
13:16I'm just sitting here telling you I am not turned off,
13:20certainly not anymore, by the idea of a player
13:23feeling like he is not valued by the organization
13:27and then speaking up and acting on that.
13:29My goodness, I'd like to teach my kids that.
13:34I'm not saying be a malcontent, scream and yell and kick and go crazy.
13:38I don't really know that Jimmy did that.
13:41But my gosh, if you are not being valued in a relationship or at work
13:48and you have achieved all kinds of things for a group
13:52that therefore then will not pay the freight for what that costs,
13:58then speak up.
14:00You better speak up.
14:01You better act on that thing.
14:02I'm certainly never going to tell them.
14:04They were paying the freight.
14:06See, but that's not how it works, Dibs.
14:08That is how it works.
14:09No, it's not.
14:10They're paying the freight, and he's got a player option,
14:12and so they're paying the freight.
14:14So is he.
14:16If he wants to throw a tantrum and the reports are that he was
14:21repeated instances of conduct detrimental to the team,
14:26they're worth money.
14:27It's repeated instances of taking him to the finals on his shoulders.
14:31Oh, his shoulders.
14:32Yes.
14:33Because it was one-on-five.
14:34Like Tyler Hero didn't have great series.
14:36You're not going to do this.
14:37And Bam Adebayo was not a great player.
14:39We've literally sat here for the better part of six months
14:42and talking about Jimmy Butler.
14:45Oh, Jimmy carried Miami to the finals twice by himself.
14:48Is that not what people say?
14:50Did Steph carry the Warriors to the finals in 2022?
14:52Certainly ain't going without him.
14:54Right.
14:55And Miami wasn't going to go without Jimmy Butler.
14:57Correct.
14:58But to undermine the other contributions, I think is.
15:00I mean, come on, Dibs.
15:01To me, that's empty rhetoric.
15:03There's a reason he's a one.
15:04He's a one.
15:05And to say that they didn't pay the freight, to me,
15:07is short-sighted and wrong.
15:09No.
15:10They were paying him top 15 money in the association.
15:13That's the freight.
15:14And they were making top 10 money in the NBA on his back.
15:17Right.
15:18Which is smart business for both of them.
15:20Yes.
15:21Then you have to value it when it comes time to valuing it.
15:23And they valued him, but he wanted more than they wanted to pay him.
15:26You don't know that.
15:27Well, then we got a problem.
15:28And the problem was the way he went about getting himself out.
15:32And you know what?
15:33As a player, you're allowed to act however you want to act.
15:35Why is it a problem?
15:36It's a problem because the team had to trade him.
15:38You think Miami wanted to trade Jimmy Butler?
15:41Obviously they did.
15:42Do you think in November they were thinking, you know what?
15:44Wait a minute.
15:45We cannot wait to trade Jimmy Butler.
15:47Obviously.
15:48Or else they would have paid him if they wanted to keep him.
15:50No, they had to trade him because they made him trade him.
15:53He became insufferable.
15:55See.
15:56He became somebody that they would not have.
15:58They couldn't even play him.
15:59You're buying their narrative.
16:00I'm buying the narrative.
16:01You weren't there.
16:02He was suspended three times.
16:04Which doesn't make them right.
16:05It doesn't make them wrong.
16:07No, it doesn't.
16:08And I've said that all day.
16:09Right.
16:10And now I'm trying to figure out why is it automatically all Jimmy's fault?
16:16It's nobody's fault.
16:17It's both of their fault.
16:18Okay.
16:19That's all I'm saying.
16:20You're trying to make it seem like they didn't pay the freight and all I'm saying is they
16:23paid the freight.
16:24And you're also saying that he was the guy who single-handedly put Miami on their back
16:29and carried him to the finals.
16:31Yes, he's the one.
16:32He's the most important player.
16:33There's no question about it.
16:34And he's paid like a one.
16:35Right.
16:36And they would love for him to still be their one, I bet.
16:39No, because then they would have paid him to be their one.
16:42He wanted money that was probably greater than what they wanted to pay.
16:45He wanted the money that he ended up getting.
16:48We don't know what he wanted.
16:49He might have wanted a four-year deal.
16:51He wanted the max.
16:52When your contract is about to be up, you go to your organization and you use the leverage
16:58you have, which is the only thing he did.
17:00So when you say, for example, yes, Jimmy got paid, but what I don't feel like you're seeing
17:05is that so did Miami.
17:06This is a two-way street.
17:08Of course.
17:09Okay.
17:10But if he wanted a max contract from Miami.
17:12I don't know what he asked for.
17:13We don't know what he asked for.
17:14Exactly.
17:15So then you can't call him wrong.
17:16Odds are he wanted more from Miami than what he got from Golden State.
17:20That doesn't make sense.
17:21That doesn't add up to anything.
17:22Or he probably wanted longer than what he got from Golden State.
17:25Otherwise, he would have signed it.
17:26No.
17:27If they offered him four years and $225,000, you're telling me that he doesn't stay in Miami?
17:31Are you telling me that if they offered him a two-year extension for $111,000, he wouldn't have stayed?
17:35I don't think he would have.
17:36Of course he would have.
17:37$150,000 on the books and a player option.
17:39Right.
17:40And $111,000 is greater than $50,000.
17:41Right.
17:42So he would have wanted more than just a player option.
17:44He would have wanted a player option and then two or three on top of that.
17:48You have no idea what he asked for.
17:49Nor do you.
17:50But I know what he took.
17:51I know what he did.
17:52Right.
17:53I know what he did.
17:54He forced his way out of town.
17:56Are you denying that he forced his way out of Miami?
17:58Completely.
17:59A disagreement took place, and that's what it led to with two sides both leveraging a divorce.
18:06Who asked to be traded?
18:07The team or the player?
18:09Both.
18:10The player was the one who asked to be traded.
18:12No, he didn't.
18:13Fact.
18:14No, he didn't.
18:15Yes.
18:16Check the research.
18:17Literally, how do you get to asking for a trade?
18:19You tell the team that you want to be traded.
18:21No, you ask to stay, and they say no.
18:23And then you ask for a trade.
18:25Well, you asked to get an extension, and Clay Thompson asked for an extension, and the team said no.
18:30I don't know why.
18:31Why is that not part of the story?
18:33Because you're blaming the team and not the player.
18:35No.
18:36I'm literally not.
18:37You're refusing to assign blame to the player.
18:39The entire conversation has been about the fact that this is shared.
18:43I have said that very clearly since 2015.
18:46You're assigning the majority of the blame to the team.
18:48No, I'm not.
18:49I am sitting here telling you that you are putting thoughts in his head and actions on his hands that you have no idea if they took place.
18:57You are automatically taking the team's side in a story that you don't know.
19:01Just because someone got suspended does not mean that he's at fault.
19:05You don't know that.
19:07You don't suspend a guy unless he does something that is suspendable.
19:11Right, but he did that because there was a disagreement.
19:14Right.
19:15And all he's doing is asking for what he feels he's worth.
19:18Right.
19:19And actually, what's so crazy to me is he's arrived here, and all of us go, you know what?
19:24He is worth that.
19:26But then we're going to still listen to people rip him for asking for what he's worth in Miami.
19:30Well, he's worth that in Miami if he actually plays in Miami.
19:34Well, he was.
19:35But he got to a point where.
19:36He was playing in Miami.
19:37Until he walked out of practice.
19:39Until he wasn't valued.
19:40And until he skipped a plane.
19:41And he did all those things because he wasn't feeling valued.
19:44And I get that.
19:45When you're making $46 million and you've got a player option for $50, I can see where you're not feeling valued.
19:50Well, and now.
19:51And there's the sarcasm.
19:52There it is.
19:53Right.
19:54And you don't know how valued he was feeling.
19:57All we know is he wanted an extension.
19:59They didn't want to give it to him.
20:01And then he wanted to be traded.
20:03I just like.
20:04Literally, all I want to know is why do we always side with the team?
20:07I'm not sitting here telling you, Jimmy, it was perfect.
20:09I'm wondering why we always side with the player.
20:11We never side with the player.
20:12You always side with the player.
20:13Not true.
20:14Not true.
20:15You sided with Brandon Aiyuk until it got to a point where you no longer sided with Brandon Aiyuk.
20:20What?
20:21From the jump.
20:22What?
20:23From the jump.
20:24Out of your mouth?
20:25You were not siding with Brandon Aiyuk in the beginning of it.
20:28I never sided with Brandon Aiyuk.
20:30You were in the beginning.
20:31It wasn't until the holdout got really long and the deal got changed.
20:36That's when you turned.
20:38That is a patently absurd comment that you just made.
20:42It's a fact.
20:43Get the tape, then.
20:44What the hell did I say?
20:45Get the tape.
20:46I never said anything like that.
20:47I never, ever said anything like that.
20:50I wanted Brandon to stay because he's a good player.
20:54We had T.J. Huschmanzada on.
20:55What the hell does that have to do with anything?
20:57It has to do with the fact that you were agreeing with T.J.
21:00and saying that Brandon needs to get his money.
21:03It wasn't until the holdout got deep in the summer that you went to the other side.
21:08You're making a story up.
21:09I don't believe so.
21:10Wow.