Shatha Al Mutawa, Founder of Kutubna Cultural Center, explains to podcast host Maria Botros on this week's Tell Me Why podcast episode why the art of reading books is still appreciated by many.
Shatha: I left my job as a professor at the American University in Washington DC to start something new here in Dubai, the Kutubna Cultural Center
Kutubna is a community space, a place for creative people, and it combines a lot of things that I love which includes books, says Shatha
Shatha: We have a playroom and a reading room for children, where kids can do an activity related to the book they read
I thought it would be easy but it's actually hard to own a bookshop, says Shatha
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#UAEnews #podcast #reading
Shatha: I left my job as a professor at the American University in Washington DC to start something new here in Dubai, the Kutubna Cultural Center
Kutubna is a community space, a place for creative people, and it combines a lot of things that I love which includes books, says Shatha
Shatha: We have a playroom and a reading room for children, where kids can do an activity related to the book they read
I thought it would be easy but it's actually hard to own a bookshop, says Shatha
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #reading
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NewsTranscript
00:00When I started talking about opening a cultural center, people started talking to me about their hopes and their dreams and all the creative things that they've been thinking about.
00:13And I ended up meeting hundreds and hundreds of artists and writers and poets and playwrights and actors.
00:26And it just couldn't be just a bookshop anymore. It became a gallery space. Now we have two galleries. It became a place where we're planning a play.
00:42There's just so much more in it. We do this mother's program to help women who have gaps in their CVs, who've been taking care of children for some years, to go back to the workforce outside the home.
00:57And that has been one of the most wonderful things that we've done so far, although we've done so many wonderful things.
01:11All right, we are back. And with today's episode of Tell Me Why, we are bringing back Get to Know the CEO, or Get to Know a founder of a business or a venture here in the UAE, in Dubai specifically,
01:31that is slowly making it and slowly, you know, jumping, you know, all the challenges and the hurdles and the obstacles that come their way and are here to share their story to be an inspiration for all.
01:43So with me in the studio is Shada Al-Mutawa, who is the founder and CEO of Kitabna Cultural Center. Is that correct?
01:52That's right. Thank you so much for having me.
01:54Yeah, it's lovely having you, Shada. How are you? How is the way in? How's the weather outside? We know it's crazy hot right now.
02:01Everything is wonderful. I got to spend this morning with my daughter, which was a special treat because normally she would be at daycare.
02:09Nice.
02:10I really enjoyed that.
02:11That's nice. I love those like slow and peaceful mornings that you get some quality time with family members. That's lovely. It's lovely to hear.
02:19OK, so Shada, before we get into like all the technicalities, I want to get to know you first. So what is your background, like your professional background and how did Kitabna come to life?
02:32I started my career as a professor. Actually, I went to the US at the age of 16.
02:40OK.
02:41I continued my studies there. I got my master's and my Ph.D. and then I went on to teach for about 10 years in the US.
02:48Amazing.
02:49In May 2022, I had my daughter, who is now two years old, and that changed my priorities completely.
02:59OK.
03:00I felt that it was very important to raise her in my country and near our family so she can know them and they know her from the beginning of her life.
03:11Of course.
03:12So I made a decision that felt at once extremely difficult and at the same time extremely easy to leave my job as a professor at American University in Washington, D.C.
03:26Wow.
03:27And come and start something new here in Dubai.
03:31Yeah.
03:32And it was a really good decision. I'm very, very happy that I made it and very glad to see my daughter spending so much time with her cousins and, you know, just all the hugs and kisses.
03:46Yes.
03:47And, you know, just how much she loves her grandparents and aunts and all that.
03:54It is a tough decision, I have to say.
03:56And, you know, you mentioning how important it was for you to have your daughter basically submerged in that family environment resonates with me because I grew up far away from cousins, grandparents.
04:13And it's something that I feel like I wouldn't want for my children.
04:17I don't want them to miss out on that.
04:19So I applaud you for that.
04:20That's not an easy step.
04:21I mean, to up and go and just, you know, leave everything behind.
04:25So I do applaud you for that.
04:27And your daughter is lucky to have you.
04:29But is it safe to say that your daughter is the reason you started Qutubna?
04:34One hundred percent.
04:35Okay.
04:36She is.
04:37Absolutely.
04:38I wouldn't have left my job in the U.S., especially at that moment because it was it felt like I was at the height of my career.
04:47I had everything that I wanted in terms of my job and my ability to do research and the freedom that I had to pursue any question I was interested in, designing courses any way I liked.
05:03I had so much research money to just fly wherever I wanted and go to libraries or just research anything.
05:11Really, I could I could spend my life doing what I wanted.
05:17But, yeah, I mean, it's so much more important for me that she gets to have the childhood that I had.
05:25I was very, very lucky to grow up with cousins.
05:30And I growing up, I had I guess I still do have cousins in two countries, in Kuwait and in Dubai.
05:36Okay.
05:37And so I grew up, you know, going back and forth and being with with all of these cousins.
05:43And I just couldn't imagine her not having anyone nearby whose family.
05:49Yeah. Yeah. That's that's beautiful.
05:51Okay. So diving into Qutubna, can you just explain what it is?
05:56I mean, for those who don't know or have never heard of it.
05:58Sure.
05:59And like when like when did it come to life and like everything about the bookshop or the cultural center?
06:07Yes. So it is a community space, I think, is the best way to describe it.
06:13It's a space for creative people.
06:16And it combines a lot of things that I love in life.
06:20Right.
06:21And that's books. So we have a bookshop.
06:23We also have a coffee shop.
06:25Coffee is a new love and passion for me since I started the coffee shop.
06:29Okay.
06:30And we have event spaces and we have two kinds of event spaces.
06:35So we have event spaces for adults and we have event spaces for kids.
06:40Okay.
06:41So we have a playroom and a reading room for children where we do events with authors.
06:46For example, an author would come and read their book and then the kids would do some kind of arts or crafts activity related to the book.
06:55We've done an art workshop, an art appreciation workshop and a music appreciation workshop.
07:02Wow. Nice.
07:03Where kids as young as six months old would listen to classical Arabic songs and identify the instruments.
07:11And they got to see the instruments and play with them.
07:14And it was really, really fun.
07:15I love that. Okay.
07:17Yeah.
07:18For adults, we have a lecture area and we have a workshop space.
07:22We do writing groups. We have writing workshops.
07:26We have a humanities festival that's a lecture series.
07:31Okay.
07:32Where we feature a speaker who is from the Gulf and who does research related to the Gulf.
07:38And it could be anything, philosophy, religion, literature, history.
07:43We've had some very, very interesting speakers.
07:46Wow. That's incredible.
07:49I mean, you put it very well.
07:52It's a community center.
07:53It's a community space.
07:54It's somewhere for people to get together and share their passion for whatever.
07:59I mean, music, culture, history, anything.
08:03And I absolutely love that.
08:05But I just want to play devil's advocate for just a second.
08:10Would you say that reading or books, physical books, are a dying art?
08:18No, not at all.
08:19Not for a minute.
08:20Not for a second.
08:22I grew up with this idea that people here don't like to read.
08:28And Arabs don't like books.
08:30I don't know where I got it from, but I still hear it.
08:34And just in general, in the world, we have the Internet, so people are watching Netflix or YouTube or whatever,
08:40and they're not reading books.
08:42But I didn't care because I'm not a business-minded person.
08:50When I decided that I'm leaving my career as a professor, I wanted to be with books.
08:59I spend so much time in bookstores and bookshops and libraries, and it's where I feel the presence of God.
09:08This is where I feel the strongest connection to God in my life.
09:12I feel so much inspiration and so much love and gratitude when I'm with books.
09:19So I thought, okay, if I'm leaving something that I really love, then I need to be with books.
09:26And the easiest thing in my mind at the time was, I'm just going to open a bookshop.
09:31I love it.
09:33I thought it was easy, but it's actually really, really hard to own a bookshop.
09:38Even just getting the books on the shelves is incredibly difficult for all kinds of reasons.
09:46So I decided that I had to be with books.
09:53In the U.S., where I was going to bookshops all the time, there would always be events.
09:59So there would be authors giving readings from their new books, and there would be discussions and conversations and book clubs.
10:07And I was always going to writing workshops and things like this in the U.S.
10:12So I wanted to do this as well.
10:14And here, just in terms of business models and licensing, that meant opening a cultural center instead of a bookshop.
10:23That's the title that's on the door.
10:27It's a cultural center.
10:29But when I started talking about opening a cultural center, people started talking to me about their hopes and their dreams
10:38and all the creative things that they've been thinking about.
10:43And I ended up meeting hundreds and hundreds of artists and writers and poets and playwrights and actors.
10:56And it just couldn't be just a bookshop anymore.
11:01It became a gallery space.
11:05Now we have two galleries.
11:07It became a place where we're planning a play.
11:11Wow.
11:12There's just so much more in it.
11:15We do this mother's program to help women who have gaps in their CVs, who've been taking care of children for some years,
11:24to go back to the workforce outside the home.
11:28And that has been one of the most wonderful things that we've done so far, although we've done so many wonderful things.
11:34But yeah, it's become...
11:36I love that.
11:37...something that I didn't expect that it would be.
11:40It's so much more than just a quote-unquote bookshop or even a cultural center.
11:46I'm sorry, but there's so much more to it.
11:48I mean, you're helping mothers or working mothers get back into the field,
11:53and you're creating a safe space for people who just want to get together and just live in good vibes, share a yummy cup of coffee.
12:04And I just want to clarify, because I played the devil's advocate, but I love books.
12:08There's nothing more I love than that combination that you just mentioned, a book and a good cup of coffee, a big one as well, so that it stays.
12:16But there's nothing more I enjoy than just grabbing a book, going, sitting by the beach or a cafe near the beach or whatever.
12:24I mean, even if it's in a little nook in my apartment and just getting lost in a book.
12:29The reason why I asked that question is because I get that snarky comment from so many people, where it's like, oh, you're still reading books?
12:36People listen to audiobooks, and people are always walking around with their Kindles, which I love all,
12:43but I still have that soft spot for that physical book and turning those pages and taking notes in my books,
12:51especially the self-development books and the psychology ones that I tend to enjoy a bit more now that I'm a bit older.
12:59I mean, I used to like the fiction, but those are the ones I'm interested in.
13:03So that's why I wanted to ask you, because I always get those comments like, oh, you're still reading a book?
13:08Who reads books these days? And in reality, a lot of people still do.
13:13Yes, I'm glad you brought me back to the question.
13:16Yes, because when I started going to book fairs here and going to just talking to people who read and people who have just approached me
13:29because I'm starting this cultural center, I realized that people really, really love books.
13:35Yes.
13:36And they're serious about their love of books, and people have huge libraries.
13:41I mean, I didn't know that.
13:43I just didn't imagine that so many people are like me, you know, like rather than going and getting a nice car or a nice bag.
13:51Exactly.
13:53They're going and building libraries in their homes.
13:56Love that.
13:57And it's kind of an invisible world that's all around us.
14:01But the number of writers, just writers that I have met since I started or opened Kutubna has been just astounding.
14:12Yeah.
14:13And these are people who read books, you know, like breathing.
14:17Yeah.
14:18It's just part of their life in every day, every evening, every morning sometimes.
14:26So, yeah, I know that we have so much that's pulling us away from books, but people are still reading.
14:36They are.
14:37They're reading and they're writing.
14:39Yeah.
14:40And I feel like the most important part in keeping that art going is tackling it from the roots.
14:46So starting with the younger generations and getting them into that habit of holding a book, reading it, you know, learning new words, you know, looking upwards.
14:55I remember my mom used to do that with me all the time.
14:58She would say, you know, read a book and, you know, challenge yourself.
15:01And if there's a word you don't know, underline it, look it up, and then use it in a sentence, like write it in three different sentences.
15:08And I thought that's crucial for the younger generations because we lack that these days with the technology and the advancements and the distractions.
15:17So I love that.
15:19I love that you have initiatives for younger audiences as well and young readers.
15:24And I think this is what we need to capitalize on to keep that going and to keep it growing.
15:31I mean, we could talk about books all day.
15:33I mean, before we dive into the logistics, what's your favorite book?
15:37Do you have a favorite book?
15:39No.
15:40Every time I read a really good book, it becomes my favorite book.
15:43Your favorite.
15:44I know that feeling.
15:45So currently I'm reading Bouthaina El-Issa's most recent book, and it's called Sharaf Al-Muhawala.
15:53And it's about being a bookseller.
15:55She's a Kuwaiti bookshop owner, and she talks specifically about censorship in Kuwait and the history of that.
16:03But it feels really special to read a book written by another Arab woman bookseller.
16:12Yes, exactly.
16:13It's what we think of when we think of a Khaliji woman, but I love that.
16:19Fantastic.
16:20I really, really love that.
16:21Fantastic.
16:22Okay.
16:23So moving away from just talking about the titles and the authors and the initiatives,
16:29I want to talk to you as an entrepreneur, as a business owner.
16:33How has that been since the inception of Kotobna?
16:38What are some of the successes?
16:39What are the challenges that you faced, and how did you overcome them?
16:43It's very, very challenging being a businesswoman because I never imagined that I would be a businesswoman.
16:51I am not a very logical thinker.
16:55I'm a very imaginative and creative thinker.
16:58Okay.
16:59So I like to exist in a reality of my own making.
17:02Yeah.
17:04So I had to learn everything, and I had to find people who will ground me and bring me back to reality.
17:11Absolutely.
17:12And I've been very, very fortunate that I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs.
17:18My father is a businessman.
17:20My sister is a very successful businesswoman, and they've been my mentors through all this.
17:27Amazing.
17:28They've been teaching me how to do business and how to make the difficult decisions
17:35and deal with the day-to-day reality of owning a business.
17:40Okay.
17:41But I've also gotten a lot of support from the community in general.
17:47We have been incredibly fortunate to just be embraced by young Emirati people who really value our mission,
17:58which is to celebrate and promote Khaliji scholarship and literature.
18:03Okay.
18:05We've had, for example, one person who is very dear to my heart, and I only met her because of Kutubna,
18:12is Budur Al-Rahma.
18:14She is an NYU Abu Dhabi student, and she's graduating now this spring.
18:19Okay.
18:20She's the first person who volunteered.
18:23She found me on Twitter, and she was following me when I was teaching in the U.S.,
18:28and she told me, I would love to volunteer.
18:31I am here. Tell me what you need, and I'll do it.
18:34Wow.
18:35We met, and she ended up organizing this whole Dubai Humanities Festival that we had.
18:42She researched and found all the speakers.
18:46She contacted them.
18:47She organized every single lecture just as a volunteer, somebody who just loves knowledge and ideas and wisdom,
18:56and they were amazing.
18:59I mean, every single one of them was just so incredible.
19:04The presence of the community at these events and seeing young people coming to hear about, for example,
19:12the role of Omani slaves in the 1800s in preserving Omani literature.
19:19I thought when we were planning that lecture, for example, that, well, who cares about history now,
19:26and who would be interested in manuscripts, and it's such a specific topic, but I was completely wrong.
19:36That lecture, for example, was one of our most popular lectures, and so many young people were there.
19:44Wow. Wow. Absolutely fantastic.
19:47I mean, you mentioned family support, and you mentioned the support of the community.
19:53There's nothing more rewarding than getting support from strangers, complete strangers,
19:57because with family and friends, you know they're going to love you no matter what,
20:01but then when it comes from strangers, you feel like, okay, that's genuine,
20:04because, I mean, there are no feelings there for them to compliment me just because they know me.
20:11So I think that's fantastic, but did you face anything throughout the journey that made you feel like,
20:17okay, am I making the right decision with this? Should I keep going, or should I stop?
20:22Was there any major obstacle that you had to overcome throughout at all?
20:27Maybe obtaining titles or, I mean, anything.
20:31Every day. I mean, it's such hard work, and having a cultural center that does so much is like owning five different businesses.
20:40Okay.
20:41Because just installing an art exhibit requires so much information, and I never imagined any of it.
20:50How do you put a label on a wall? I never thought about it.
20:55Right. Just the minute details.
20:58Exactly, and there were so many moments where I was like, there is just no way this is going to work.
21:04No way. There were so many things that looked entirely impossible,
21:10and then at every point when I was faced with that, where I'm like, oh, this is not going to happen.
21:16There's no way this is going to happen.
21:18Somebody would appear and would make it happen, and it was always just, it felt like a miracle.
21:28Nice.
21:29Miracles unfolding.
21:30There was never a moment where I thought I would quit or I would stop because I'm doing this for my daughter.
21:37Right.
21:38I'm creating a community and a space and a home for her, so I will not give up.
21:43It doesn't matter how difficult it will be.
21:46Maybe when she's grown up and everything, then I can say, okay, well, enough with the business that doesn't make money, but for now, this is what I want for her.
21:59And this is where you want to be as well, I feel.
22:01Absolutely.
22:02This is exactly where you want to be.
22:04Yes.
22:05You mentioned you left something that you loved, which was teaching in the U.S., to come back and do something you absolutely love,
22:14which is reading books and sharing that knowledge and building a community through your business.
22:22I'm glad you mentioned your daughter because my next question is,
22:27you know, balancing between this new business that you started and being a mother at the same time, like a full-time mother to a child who is two now, right?
22:38It's a constant pull and it's heartbreaking some days.
22:42Like yesterday morning, my husband dropped me off at work and she was in the backseat and I went to kiss her and say goodbye and she just held on to me and she didn't want me to go.
22:53And I was just like, I'm going to die.
22:56I can't.
22:58Yeah, I know.
22:59So that's why today I decided to just take them.
23:02Well, I didn't take the morning off, but I didn't let her go to daycare.
23:07I kept her home and I just worked on my phone while she painted with the crayons next to me.
23:14Yes, it's really challenging because owning a business, you can work 24 hours a day every day and not be done with all the work.
23:23Right.
23:24And some things seem very urgent and some things are very urgent.
23:29You know, after the floods we had here, bookshelves started falling and you just don't know which one is going to fall next.
23:39And it's hard to know, you know, why exactly they're breaking the way they're breaking.
23:44So it's hard to plan for it and predict.
23:46And, you know, you have to.
23:48That happened an hour before our coffee shop opening.
23:53Oh, wow.
23:54So we were moving books off bookshelves that were on the floor and then moving the bookshelves into storage and then trying to find places for the book.
24:05So, yeah, there are moments that just feel like I can't think about anything else.
24:10I have to deal with this disaster right now.
24:12And it does take time away from my daughter.
24:17And I am sad about that.
24:20OK.
24:21I mean, I want to be with her all day and all night, every day and every night.
24:28But it also feels very important to do this.
24:33I want to create the intellectual life for her that I felt I was missing when I was young.
24:43I grew up in a family of readers and people who care about ideas and knowledge.
24:50But I wanted also to be connected to people outside of my family and to know my community in a deeper way than I knew them.
24:58And I didn't know how.
25:00Now it's easier.
25:02It's much more likely for people, young people even, to meet other readers and book lovers and people who care about ideas.
25:14But it feels different to create our own little universe that has all the things we love.
25:21Of course.
25:22And, I mean, I know you mentioned that you feel sad when you're not with her.
25:27But it should be rewarding to know that you're doing this also for her.
25:32So it's not like you're leaving her to do something completely different.
25:36But in a way, it comes full circle.
25:38So you might be leaving her for a chunk of the day because you're doing something that will benefit her in the future, as you said.
25:47So I guess that's rewarding, isn't it?
25:50My consolation is that she loves daycare.
25:53Okay.
25:54She learns so much and she loves learning.
25:57And the things that she learns are not things I can teach her because I just don't know enough about early child development.
26:04Right.
26:05To be able to offer her the kinds of things that they're offering her at daycare.
26:11So that's the thing.
26:13I mean, some days when we take her to daycare, she just runs to her teacher and she has all this giant smile on her face.
26:20Yeah.
26:21Which makes me jealous.
26:25All moms, yes, yes.
26:27But just seeing how much she's learning and how much she's enjoying the learning.
26:32And her teacher, she loves her teachers.
26:34And that's important.
26:35Yeah.
26:36And she has friends.
26:37You know, they hold hands all day.
26:39Yeah.
26:40And she talks about them after school, even though she doesn't know how to say sentences yet.
26:43Yeah.
26:44You know?
26:45But that's sweet.
26:46That's sweet.
26:47That's my consolation.
26:48Mm-hmm.
26:49Mm-hmm.
26:50Okay.
26:51So going back to the business aspect of Kutubna, what's your advice for people who are looking to start a business or have an idea,
27:01but just don't know where to start or don't know if this business will succeed or not?
27:07Well, my advice is not to do anything alone.
27:10Okay.
27:11My advice is to find all of your pillars, the people who will keep your business house standing.
27:22Mm-hmm.
27:23The people who will shelter you as a business person, who will give you refuge in the hardest days,
27:31and the people who will give you courage and support when you feel like it's impossible.
27:41So I think it's going to look and mean different things for different people.
27:47Mm-hmm.
27:48But there is no way I could have done this on my own.
27:52Okay.
27:53No way.
27:54There's absolutely no possibility of me opening a business if I was just myself.
28:00I know many people do it and can do it, but for me, I need all of those people who have been behind me in practical ways, emotional ways, and other ways.
28:13So the support system is crucial in your opinion?
28:18100%.
28:19Okay.
28:20Yes.
28:21Do you think all businesses succeed and can soar if it's done right, or do you feel like there are certain business models that are just not meant to be?
28:29I don't know.
28:30Okay.
28:31I really don't know.
28:32I mean, I hear that so many businesses don't make it past the first six months or the first year, and I can understand that.
28:41I mean, we're still not making enough money to cover our bills.
28:44Okay.
28:46So we need even more community support, but I can keep going and trying because there are so many people who are helping me.
28:54Right.
28:55I know I can pay my staff salaries even if we're not covering our bills yet because I have people in my community who are helping me do this.
29:05Mm-hmm.
29:07But like I said before, I never studied business.
29:13I never even thought about being a business owner, so I'm still learning.
29:20Okay.
29:21My definition of success is not a traditional definition of success.
29:25Right.
29:26I mean, I don't know how things will happen most of the time.
29:32They happen.
29:34We kind of find creative ways, and yeah, and they happen.
29:40I mean, like for example, when we decided to open the space that Qutubna is in now was just basically dirt.
29:52It was just sand.
29:53Not sand.
29:54It was like an unfinished floor and some pillars.
29:58Mm-hmm.
30:00And I had never done a fit-out before or planned a fit-out or supervised a construction project.
30:06Right.
30:07We ended up recycling discarded materials from other projects.
30:13Nice.
30:14Like light fixtures that were in a grocery store that had closed down and door handles that were no longer needed and glass panels that were discarded.
30:27So, you know, like when I was reading about business plans, it was not part of my business plan to create a sustainable space.
30:36Right.
30:37But we ended up…
30:39Doing it anyway.
30:41Yeah.
30:42I mean, recycling has become a huge part of what we do.
30:44Nice.
30:45Just sort of that's how it happened.
30:47Nice.
30:48I love that.
30:49Okay.
30:50My last question.
30:52Now that you are where you are now today, if you go back in time, would you do it all over again?
30:58Yes.
31:00Definitely, I would do it in a heartbeat.
31:03I would do it 10 years sooner.
31:05Yeah.
31:06You would have left teaching ages ago and started it then.
31:10Yeah.
31:11Yeah.
31:12I may not have gotten a PhD even.
31:13I don't know.
31:14I mean, and I thought it would be harder to connect with thinkers and writers and researchers and people who care about all the things that I care about.
31:23But it turned out to be a feast of connections and meetings and finding like-minded people.
31:32So, yeah, I would do it sooner.
31:35And all over again.
31:36Yes, absolutely.
31:38I love that.
31:39Shada, thank you so much for joining us today.
31:41This was lovely.
31:42Thank you for having me.
31:43I will pay Katobna a visit because now I'm so intrigued.
31:46You mentioned coffee and you mentioned books.
31:49So, you had me at coffee and books.
31:51So, I'm going to be there very, very soon.
31:53And I'd love to see you there.
31:54I would love to see you there as well.
31:56Thank you, Shada.