Noona Nafousi, Career Coach and Founder of Neo Noor, explains to Tell Me Why podcast host Maria Botros how she helps clients uncover what's holding them back from moving forward.
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00:00I heard this when I was on a training, when emotions are high, intelligence is low.
00:04Mm-hmm.
00:05Oh, I like that.
00:06So nothing good is going to come of it.
00:09Oh, I like that.
00:10So if you can just calm your emotion, then you can tap into your intelligent mind.
00:14If you are really highly emotional, the only place you're speaking from is not your mind.
00:21Yes.
00:22Nothing good is going to come of it.
00:23Just your emotions.
00:24Yeah, exactly.
00:25Which is, you know, you need to tap into it to know how you feel and do that.
00:29No one's saying don't tap into your emotions.
00:31Very, very important.
00:32Your emotions will tell you how you're feeling.
00:35Tap into that, but then come to it from a place of intelligence.
00:44Welcome back.
00:45It's a brand new episode of Tell Me Why.
00:47This is Maria Botros.
00:48Tell Me Why is a Gulf News original podcast.
00:51For our returning listeners, it's always lovely to have you on the show and, you know, tuning
00:57in, being part of the conversation, sending in your suggestions, your topics, your questions
01:04on podcasts at gulfnews.com.
01:07We bring in the experts.
01:09They help us explain whatever it is that you want to know more about.
01:13And yeah, and we just want to answer your questions.
01:16We just want to tell you why.
01:18Today, I have Nuna Nafusi with me, who is an executive career coach.
01:23Is that correct?
01:24It is correct.
01:25Thank you so much.
01:26I'm so honored to be invited.
01:28It's lovely having you and such a lovely smile, you know, at this point of the day, like,
01:33you know, midday when with all the traffic that you were stuck in, still have a lovely
01:37smile.
01:38So that's, that's, that's great.
01:40Nuna, honestly, like when someone says they're a coach, like a life coach or a career coach,
01:48I'm always lost.
01:49Like I don't necessarily know exactly what they do or what they have to offer.
01:55And this is exactly why I want to have this conversation with you.
01:58I want you to tell us a bit more about what you do and what you bring to the table, basically,
02:05when someone approaches you.
02:07Yeah, I love that question, because a lot of people think, is a life coach a therapist?
02:12You know, what's the difference or a psychologist?
02:15Yes.
02:16So basically, for coaching, the difference is coaching is very much about where you want
02:21to be.
02:22So people will come to me.
02:24I mainly work with people who are quite senior executives, and they are they're really high
02:28achievers.
02:29They've had so much in their career that they have achieved, but they're just something
02:34doesn't feel right.
02:36They want to get to that next level.
02:38And it could be they've lost a bit of their confidence, or they don't even know what that
02:42next level is, or they want a promotion, but they just feel a bit like they don't know
02:49where to go.
02:51And I guess coaching difference to therapy or a psychologist is very much about, tell
02:58us where you want to go, and then we will put in the steps to go there.
03:03So it's holding someone accountable, but it's really uncovering what's holding someone back
03:08from getting to that next step.
03:10And normally, it's the things that we discuss are limiting beliefs, mindset, how we're talking
03:18to ourselves, what has happened to get you to this.
03:21But it's very action orientated, it's very moving forward.
03:26And seeing what blocks are there that are stopping you.
03:29So I kind of bridge the gap, I get them to really be clear on where they want to get
03:34to.
03:35And then I take away all the blocks mentally for to allow them to get there.
03:39Well, that's, that's really nice, because I feel like sometimes, you know, we can come
03:44to that self actualization where, okay, we know something's up, but we might not know
03:48the means.
03:50So you sort of help, not sort of, you do help facilitate that for people, and you sort of
03:55guide them?
03:56Yeah, guide them.
03:57And one of the things, which I really like to explain is like, have you heard of blind
04:01spots?
04:02No.
04:03So it's a little bit like,
04:04Like in driving, like when, while you're driving, that's all I know.
04:07Yeah, that's a good one.
04:08Like when you're driving, there's a blind spot that you just can't see.
04:11And most of the time, when something is holding us back, we've got a blind spot.
04:16It could be a belief that we're holding.
04:20It could be something that happened in the past, and we keep having this story and narrative
04:25going on.
04:26Right.
04:27And it served us for so long, but now it's actually hindering us.
04:31So I like to kind of put a mirror to that blind spot.
04:34And suddenly, they're like, oh, my God, I didn't even know that that's what I was doing
04:40or what I was thinking.
04:41Now it all makes sense.
04:43And once you see it, you can never unsee it.
04:45And then that's why I always say the work that we do together.
04:48It's an investment that you're going to have for the rest of your life, because you uncover
04:52these blind spots, and suddenly everything becomes clearer.
04:57And you can see like, oh, okay, that's why I've been acting like this or feeling like
05:01this or speaking like this.
05:03So it's a really empowering way to discover more about who you are and what it is that's
05:10stopping you from getting to where you want.
05:12Right.
05:13It's sort of like finding the root cause of what's causing the bigger problem, I guess.
05:19I mean, like you can sort of see the obvious ones, but there are other ones, like you said,
05:24the blind spots that you don't necessarily recognize or see.
05:27And sometimes it's not even that it's uncovering problems.
05:31Sometimes it can be uncovering what it is that you really desire.
05:36And sometimes we hold ourselves back from what we desire because we think it's not possible,
05:41or we think we're not worth it, or we're not enough.
05:44And so we won't even let our mind go to the things that really are, you know, it's like
05:50a desire.
05:51It's like a goal.
05:52It's like, it's more, it's not a problem.
05:55It's like, oh my God, why am I not living the life that I want?
06:00And then the blind spot uncovers that.
06:03So just following up on that, what do you think is the main reason why people limit
06:09themselves?
06:10I think one of the main reasons that holds people back, is it fear?
06:14Is it, I mean, I speak for myself, maybe it could be fear of failure.
06:19I don't want to explore something else and, you know, fail at it, I would say.
06:25Everyone has their own unique standpoint.
06:27But what I always say is, how is not getting there serving you?
06:33So some people say, you know, I want to be more visible, but I'm just too scared to do
06:40it.
06:41The fear.
06:42Well, how is that fear serving you?
06:43And they look at me like I've, like, grown two heads and they're wondering, like, what
06:48do you mean?
06:49Of course it's not serving me, but actually it is serving me because everything that we
06:53do as humans, we're doing it because in some level it is protecting us, it is serving us.
07:00So if you are too scared to be public speaking, the reason why it's serving you is because
07:08you don't want to be more visible.
07:10You don't want to be disappointed.
07:12You don't want to be all of this thing.
07:13So there is a sense of, if you can identify what your fears, it could be fear, it could
07:21be whatever it is, well, how it's serving you on some level, because 100% of the time
07:27it is, then you can say, okay, so which one is it?
07:31Do I, is serving me by not going for my dreams, serving me because it means that I won't get
07:37disappointment?
07:38Is that disappointment bigger than my desire?
07:42Sometimes it is.
07:43Yeah.
07:44Sometimes we think we want something, but actually we want to stay safe.
07:47So the majority of the time, our fears are keeping us in a place of safety.
07:52Okay.
07:53Okay.
07:54So sometimes it serves us well, but sometimes it actually hinders our progress.
07:58Yeah.
07:59But we don't know that.
08:00We don't know that it's serving us.
08:01We just think, oh, it's so unfair and why can't I do public speaking and all of the
08:05things.
08:06So if you can uncover how it's serving you, then you get to work towards, okay, well,
08:11do I really want to be doing this?
08:13This is so interesting.
08:14So I actually want to know like how you got into this.
08:17So I know that you've had like 20 plus years in the corporate world.
08:21What got you into this?
08:23Was it your experience in the corporate world or personal experiences or a mix of both,
08:28maybe?
08:29Mix of both, really.
08:30So I did my NLP training when I was 26.
08:32Okay.
08:33So that was nearly 20 years ago, showing my age.
08:37Doesn't show.
08:39Let's be fair.
08:40So I did my NLP training when I was 26 and it just blew my mind because I did the qualification
08:45and I did my masters and it just like at that age, I'm so glad I did it when I was so young
08:51because it literally like gave me a new pair of glasses to view the world.
08:57It really made me realize that the reason I had the results I had in my life was because
09:01of me and I couldn't blame anyone else and as someone who really enjoyed playing the
09:06victim and blaming everyone for why I was unhappy and it's, you know, this happened
09:12to me and this happened at school to realize that actually it was me and I was the one
09:18who was making myself unhappy and that was a real eye opener for me.
09:23And even though it was really scary because I was having to take a radical responsibility
09:29for my own self, it's also really empowering.
09:33And at the same time, I was like, wow, this is pretty big.
09:37So then I started my career when I was 20 in recruitment.
09:41I've always ever been in recruitment.
09:43I was a headhunter and I did that up until four years ago.
09:48And when I became a headhunter, what I realized really quickly is when you're interviewing
09:5220 people over, you know, in one day because you've got a role to fill, there would be
09:56one person who would come in and they would blow my mind and I would remember them.
10:03And so I started getting really obsessed.
10:05Like what was it about that one person?
10:07What's that quality that you would remember them?
10:11Yeah.
10:12And then I realized it was that they had a real inner confidence, but they trusted themselves
10:17and they were always the candidates who even if they didn't get that job, I'd remember
10:22them for another job.
10:24And so I started studying these people and started wondering, you know, what is it?
10:28And it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's magnetic, like they, they have this energy about them
10:34that is being really comfortable in their skin.
10:38It's the way they talk to themselves.
10:40It's the way they, they trust themselves and all of this stuff.
10:45So then what would happen is I would get people coming for a job who I knew was right for
10:49the job, but they lacked in some confidence.
10:52So I started working with my candidates and saying, you know, why I'm sensing that you
10:57don't think that you're going to get this job.
10:58And they're like, no, I don't.
10:59So I would start coaching them and then they would get the job.
11:04And so I became an excellent recruiter and a really good headhunter.
11:09And then during COVID, I got made redundant and I just thought, okay, the bit that I enjoyed
11:16the most in my job is the people side and the coaching side.
11:22So in 2020, during COVID, I decided to set up my own coaching business.
11:27Yeah.
11:28I feel like you're, you're one of many people who I've heard, you know, decided to open
11:33up their own thing during COVID and it actually helped them excel rather than, you know, like
11:39stop them from doing what they want.
11:40So I find that it's, it's finding the opportunity even in the hardest times, which, which makes
11:45us, you know, excel, I feel.
11:47You mentioned this a couple of times of how we speak to ourself and how people lack that
11:52confidence sometimes.
11:54And you mentioned it about yourself and like, you know, being real with yourself and, you
11:58know, sort of like stopping at that point in time and saying, no, it's not the people
12:04around me.
12:05I am not the victim.
12:06It's me.
12:07But how do you do that without putting yourself down or affecting yourself negatively?
12:14Yeah.
12:15That's a really good question.
12:16And the thing is, I think people have this idea that like, oh, I just want to be happy
12:22and that they're not comfortable with any other emotions other than happiness.
12:26So they don't want to feel anger or frustration.
12:29The thing is that it's not about being happy all the time.
12:32It's about owning your own emotions.
12:34So I know if I, I, I'm no Buddha, I can tell you that.
12:38And I do get angry.
12:39I'm originally Iraqi.
12:40I have a very, I don't know if many Iraqis are very hot tempered.
12:45And I do have, you know, anger and I get upset and all this stuff, but I own it.
12:49I know that if I'm upset and I was, I would say, oh, it's because my husband didn't speak
12:55to me nicely or didn't actually, it's what I'm making it mean.
12:58It's all my own mind.
13:00So when I say own it, it's knowing that any emotions that we're having is because of the
13:06thoughts that we are willing to attach to.
13:09And our thoughts create our emotions.
13:12And every action that we take in life is driven by our emotions.
13:15It's not our thoughts.
13:16So if you can't clean up your thoughts and start having the emotions that are going to
13:22drive an action, it's, it's going to be, you're not going to get the results that you want
13:27in your life.
13:28So it's just being very conscious of, you know, if I'm walking around saying, it's your
13:33fault and you did this and you upset me and you spoke to me, I'm giving that person all
13:37of my power because only if they decide to speak to me in the way that I think is good
13:43enough, then I'm not going to be happy.
13:46Yeah.
13:47But if I take my power back, and this is what I like to call personal power, the powers
13:51with me that you can speak to me however way, if I decide to be upset, I'll be upset.
13:56But it's because I'm choosing to believe that the way you spoke to me is not nice.
14:01But if you spoke to me in that way and I want to be in a good mood, I can say, God, they
14:04must have had a really bad day today.
14:06And I'm not going to let that brush off on me.
14:09That's personal power.
14:10Wow.
14:11That is powerful.
14:12It is.
14:13But so many of us, and I can be guilty of this sometimes as well, I have to remind myself,
14:17our power is very much on circumstantial power.
14:20I'm happy if I've got the job.
14:22I'm happy if I've got the right money.
14:23I'm happy if my children are listening to me.
14:26I'm happy if my boss is speaking to me in this way.
14:30So we place, and it's important as well, because how many people do we know who've got the
14:35job, got the money, and they're still not happy?
14:38So it is important to find circumstantial power.
14:42What is dangerous is when we give away all of our personal power to our circumstances,
14:48but also when we don't take responsibility for our own personal power as well.
14:52Yes.
14:53Yes.
14:54Okay.
14:55So mentioning that, you were saying there are so many people that actually have everything.
14:57They have the job.
14:58They have the kids.
14:59They have the house.
15:00They have everything.
15:01Yet they're still not satisfied.
15:02How do you deal with people like that?
15:04Have you had people approach you from that category or caliber, and how do you deal with
15:10it?
15:11That's the majority of my clients.
15:12Oh, okay.
15:13Well, there you go.
15:14Yeah.
15:15Because anyone who I'm working with in Dubai, let's face it, if they've got a senior job,
15:18they're earning good money, the expat lifestyle is a beautiful one here, and they have a lot
15:26of guilt for, on paper everything is great, but on the inside they feel anything but great.
15:34And the reason why I have so much sympathy for these people is because they've lost that
15:40connection with themselves.
15:42They've forgotten what it is that brings them joy.
15:48They've forgotten to really listen to what their, again, their needs are, their desires
15:53are, and so much of their life has been based on achieving and doing.
15:59When you're a high achiever, so much of what you want to achieve is based on the job and
16:04the money, but then you've got that all.
16:06Where does then your self-worth come from?
16:08Do you keep pushing harder and harder and harder, and then you're going to end up burnt
16:12out?
16:13So it's really turning the table around and saying, okay, how can you build your self-worth
16:18from the inside?
16:20What is going on?
16:22Where are you basing your worth?
16:24We flip it from what they've achieved to who they are as human beings.
16:29So is it sort of like they lost themself in the process, like they've lost that, you said,
16:36the connection with themselves, but they've also lost everything else, like everything
16:40that they know about themselves, and it's like they no longer know what makes them happy
16:46and even what upsets them.
16:50Do you feel like it's sort of like a constant just losing of self?
16:55It's like, I see this a lot with high achievers, is that they've pushed so much.
17:01Throughout their career, they've spent the last 20 years getting this, getting that,
17:05and they've got to the point where, okay, I've got it all now.
17:09What's next?
17:11What's next?
17:12Because their self-worth was so attached to achieving things, it really served them, and
17:17it really allowed them to be really successful.
17:21But now they are successful because, well, they're the CEO, where do they go next?
17:27Okay, fine, they'll sit on a board.
17:29What's next?
17:30And majority of my clients are CEOs.
17:33What do they do next?
17:35That's why they're in this predicament where they're wondering, but where does my self-worth
17:44come now?
17:45I've got the bonus.
17:46I've got the people.
17:47I've got the family.
17:48I've got all of this.
17:49I've got three cars.
17:51And that's when we do the inner work and the work.
17:54Because so much of our external world is painted through our internal world.
18:01And so if the internal world is feeling a bit lost because you've achieved everything,
18:06then you are going to feel lost.
18:08Everything's going to look a bit not so shiny anymore.
18:11Yeah.
18:12And in your opinion, it's reversible.
18:13Oh, 100%.
18:14Absolutely.
18:15But a lot of work put in, obviously.
18:19Look, if you have seen yourself in a certain way for years and you've got a PhD in being
18:27you and suddenly that PhD is, you know, causing you to look at your whole life in a different
18:34way, then it can be hard to think.
18:40But actually, once they see their blind spots, which we talked about, once they start understanding
18:48why they're feeling the way they're feeling, and one thing I say, you can't change anything
18:53unless you're aware of it, that awareness within itself, actually, they feel like a
18:58weight's been lifted off their shoulders and they start seeing things completely differently.
19:04And some of my clients have come back to me and said their partners have said to them,
19:08have you had a haircut or lost weight?
19:10Because the way they are showing up in their relationship has completely changed.
19:13Has changed.
19:14Because the relationship that they have with themselves has completely changed.
19:18That's fantastic.
19:19And I feel like, first of all, you have a very calming effect on people.
19:23I feel like I'm very, I'm very satisfied with the conversation.
19:28I feel calm.
19:29I don't feel like I'm stressed, even though I can relate to a lot of things that you've
19:32mentioned.
19:33So, have you ever been referred to as a psychologist?
19:37I think a lot of people have that confusion, like they feel like, okay, as a life coach,
19:42a psychologist, we mentioned this briefly in the beginning.
19:47What's the difference?
19:48And like, have you ever referred anyone to a psychologist at a certain point where you
19:53felt like, okay, no, this is bigger than just, you know, finding the root cause.
19:57There are actually other, you know, I want to say challenges attached to the bigger picture
20:04that need professional maybe help or some sort of psychological intervention.
20:09Yeah, look, if I had somebody coming to me and I could see that, you know, they were
20:15clinically depressed, for example, I'm not really the person who's going to be able to
20:20assess how far down you are clinically depressed and what medication you need that I'm not
20:26that person.
20:28If somebody has had deep, deep trauma and they need to see a therapist or they need,
20:35again, some medication to help them, I am not your person.
20:39I am for, and I know that very well about myself, I know very quickly who I can help
20:44and who I can't help.
20:45And I, you know, I have said to some clients who've come to me and say, I think you need
20:49to go and see someone else.
20:52That's not my, I won't.
20:54And I do say no to a lot of clients because I will only work with you if I 100% know that
20:59I'm the right person to help you.
21:01Yeah, it's a responsibility.
21:02It is.
21:03And that's, you know, people come to me and they tell me their deepest, darkest secrets.
21:06I mean, people used to do that to me in my recruitment days as well.
21:09I think I have this ability to get people to wake up.
21:12A lot of people cry on my calls, but I've got broad shoulders, I can do that.
21:17But, you know, because you're uncovering so much that you do, you do have to have this
21:23ability to hold the space for people and let them talk.
21:27But to answer the question, if somebody came to me and they needed something on a medical
21:31point of view or there was trauma, they are, I am not that person who will be able to help
21:35you.
21:36Yeah.
21:37So mentioning people coming forward and, you know, like trying to get some help.
21:42Can you tell us some success stories?
21:44Yeah, I can.
21:45So one of my clients who I'm just so proud of what they did, they came to me because
21:50they were working as a finance manager and they really wanted to get promoted.
21:57And then eventually their dream was to be a CFO.
22:01And in our first kind of sessions, we realized that they were not speaking up in meetings.
22:07They were a bit too agreeable.
22:10They weren't really feeling comfortable in the board meeting.
22:15You know, they were holding themselves back.
22:17Their relationship was suffering.
22:18No, I wouldn't say badly, but they just weren't communicating a lot.
22:24And so we did a lot of work on self-confidence, on self-belief, on using their voice.
22:30Within I said less than six months, they got promoted to a director.
22:36And actually in the promotion, their boss had said to them, people have noticed such
22:42a change in you.
22:44And then a few months later, they sent me a picture of them presenting to the whole
22:49office, standing up, doing a presentation thing.
22:52Oh my God, look what I'm doing.
22:55And then a year later, the CFO of their company left and they got offered the CFO role.
23:02That's fantastic.
23:03I was just like, wow, it just blew my mind.
23:06The relationship with their partner improved, they're more present with their children.
23:13And then just recently got headhunted for a new company as the CFO as well.
23:18That's fantastic.
23:19We just started working together again, actually.
23:21It's just amazing.
23:22That's my favorite.
23:23Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's so rewarding and that must feel so good.
23:28I mean, apart from the fact that you're doing this, you know, as your full time job, you
23:33really feel like you're part of this person's journey, like the journey of growth that they're
23:39embarking on.
23:41Is a part of it also like time management?
23:44Do you feel like time management also affects people's focus or growth in certain aspects
23:54of their career?
23:55Do you feel like?
23:56Yeah, I do.
23:57And I think more than time management, it's honoring our word to ourselves.
24:00It's saying, I'm not going to scroll anymore.
24:04You know, I'm just going to spend the evenings like reading or I'm going to be with my children
24:10and then we do end up scrolling.
24:11And then we've broken that trust relationship with ourselves.
24:16And I also always say, you know, if you want to build your confidence, you've got to build
24:21that relationship with yourself where you trust yourself.
24:24And how many times do we as humans say we're going to do something and then we look to
24:28ourselves and we let ourselves down.
24:30But the first thing is to honor your word to yourself and just make your word law to
24:35you.
24:36So if you say you're going to the gym, go to the gym.
24:38But if you know you're not going to go, just don't tell yourself you're going to go.
24:41So that is one part of it.
24:43And the other part of it is so many of us are so easily distractible.
24:49And we get really distracted.
24:51And actually, if you are distracted in the middle of when you're in flow of doing something,
24:55it takes you 25 minutes to get your concentration back.
24:58Oh, wow.
24:59Yeah.
25:00Okay.
25:01So one of the things is looking at like, why are we easily distracted?
25:05And what is going on there?
25:08And that is to that is a discipline.
25:11And how disciplined can we be with our mind that I always say, if you if you're in the
25:16middle of writing a piece or doing something, and you want to look at your phone, just give
25:22it 10 minutes, nothing's going to happen in those 10 minutes, but you the concentration
25:27that you will get.
25:28So, so much of the time management, yes, but I think that comes from discipline of the
25:32mind and honoring our word to ourselves.
25:35And all of those lead into bigger, better self confidence and feeling like that really
25:39good about yourself.
25:40I really like that honoring your word to yourself.
25:43I think that's a that's a good takeaway from today.
25:47Have there been instances where the person who's come to you for you know, for guidance,
25:54where their personal life is actually affecting their career and affecting their growth?
26:00And how do you deal with situations like that?
26:03Because, I mean, you're I mean, I want to say your commitment is to the person that's
26:10coming forward.
26:11But then what if it's an external fact, like something like their personal life, like their
26:14family, like their partner, that that's sort of hindering it?
26:18How do you tackle that?
26:19Yeah, I mean, it's always their personal life as well.
26:22Oh, really?
26:23Always.
26:24So if you're struggling at work, and you're not using your voice in meetings, and you
26:30are not honoring your word to yourself, and you're easily distractible, you're going to
26:35go home and feel low about yourself.
26:39And you're going to take your frustration at home.
26:41And who do we take our anger out on 95% of it?
26:46It's our partners, it's our partners, our friends, or you know, whoever we live with.
26:50So it's always affected.
26:52But if I ever have a client, and I do, who say to me, oh, my husband's really annoying
26:57me, or my wife's really annoying me, I'm not there to coach their wife or husband.
27:01Exactly.
27:02I can coach them.
27:03And it only takes one person to change how they're showing up in a relationship for the
27:08relationship to change.
27:10Because it's a dynamic, it's a dance, it's an energy.
27:15So if you change your energy to how you're showing up in the relationship, the relationship,
27:21the person can't but change the way they're responding to you.
27:25So if you're coming at it in a calmer way, if you are willing to hear the other person's
27:31point of view, all of these things, no matter what, that person can't respond to you in
27:36the same way, because you're changing, it's like a plus, you know, the whole relationship
27:41changes.
27:42So that's why I say the relationships at home start changing, because your management of
27:47yourself changes as well.
27:49So it's always intertwined.
27:51Okay.
27:53This is a broad topic, I know, but I wanted to get your input on it.
27:57What's your advice when it comes to communication?
28:00I feel like this is something that affects a lot of people on a personal level, on a
28:04professional level, on every level.
28:08Crucial conversations, communication, how to have a conversation.
28:12I wanted to know your input and your advice on that.
28:16Yeah.
28:17The first thing I would say is never have a conversation when you're emotional.
28:22I'm coming from a highly emotional person, you know, the conversation that I'm going
28:27to have with someone when I'm angry is going to be completely different than the conversation
28:32I'm going to have when I'm calm.
28:33So check in with yourself first and see, is your nervous system calm?
28:41Do you feel safe?
28:43Do you feel like, you know, make sure that you are okay.
28:49Once you feel okay and you want to have, say, a difficult conversation with someone,
28:53the way to start it is to create the context of, say, you're going to talk to a colleague
28:58who's really upset you.
29:00You create the context and give it some meaning to say, you know, I really enjoy working with
29:07you and I really want, I really love the work that you bring.
29:12So tell them where the end in mind, even if it's a partner, I really want this relationship
29:18to, I'm going to be with you for the rest of my life.
29:20I love you.
29:22Something's coming up that has upset me.
29:25And then you address just the problem, rather than what we can do is bring in 101 different
29:33things.
29:34Oh, of course.
29:35Yes.
29:36You said this thing the other day and it made me feel like this.
29:39So again, don't blame, very much talk about how it made you feel.
29:43In a meeting the other day, you spoke over me and it made me feel like what I was saying
29:48wasn't important.
29:49And then you bring the solution, you know, I'd really like to see if I missed something.
29:53I'd love to talk about this.
29:55So there are different processes that you can have a really powerful conversation because
30:02the aim of this work isn't to just be happy, happy, like we were saying, it's being able
30:07to have really powerful conversations with people.
30:11But knowing how to do that, you know, addressing one at a time, managing your nervous system.
30:17And again, like I said, if you come to a colleague or a partner with a structure to how you are
30:22going to address something and you've set your intention, a lot of us don't even set
30:27our intentions of how we want this conversation to go.
30:31I just want them to make me, to hear me and I'm so angry and I want them to see my anger
30:37rather than...
30:38I want them to apologize.
30:39Yeah.
30:40Sometimes we're waiting for that apology.
30:41Yes.
30:42Exactly.
30:43So you can get your apology, but you can get your apology from a place of understanding
30:48rather than a place of ego.
30:50And that's where you can set the intention.
30:52Like I want to be understood and yeah, that would be my biggest tips on communication.
30:59I really like that.
31:00I like that.
31:01I think I'm stepping back is always good because sometimes when we're emotional, we may act
31:07irrationally.
31:09I want to say.
31:10I think always.
31:11Yeah, I think always.
31:12And I think that this was always a debate between, you know, like partners or especially
31:17in relationships.
31:18Like I've had people who said, no, it's always good to get the conversation out of the way,
31:22speak about it so that it's not like they're lingering in the background.
31:26But sometimes you just need a minute, like you need some time to calm down, reassess
31:31the situation as you said, put it all into perspective and really think about how you
31:36want to approach this rather than just, you know, blurting out whatever it is that you
31:40have.
31:41Yeah.
31:42And you know, when I heard this when I was on a training, when emotions are high, intelligence
31:48is low.
31:49Mm hmm.
31:50Oh, I like that.
31:51So nothing good is going to come of it.
31:53Oh, I like that.
31:54So if you can just calm your emotion, then you can tap into your intelligent mind.
31:58If you are really highly emotional, the only place you're speaking from is not your mind.
32:05Yes.
32:06Nothing good is going to come from it.
32:07Just your emotions.
32:08Yeah, exactly.
32:09So, you know, you need to tap into it to know how you feel and do that.
32:13No one's saying don't tap into your emotions.
32:15Very, very important.
32:16Your emotions will tell you how you're feeling.
32:20Tap into that, but then come to it from a place of intelligence.
32:23Right.
32:24You've calmed down.
32:25Okay.
32:26I know that time is tight and that you have a tight schedule.
32:28We don't want to keep you for long, but I have two more questions.
32:32They're sort of, you know, interconnected.
32:35But the first one is, if I'm someone coming to you, how does it start?
32:42Like where do I go?
32:43How do I approach you?
32:45What's the process like?
32:46I mean, we don't have to go into like extensive details, but what's the process like and how
32:51do you how do I go about it?
32:52Yeah, well, the first thing we do is we'd have a call together.
32:55That's completely complimentary.
32:57They generally last about 45 minutes and I will go through a very clear structure to
33:02assess whether I think you're going to be the right, you know, client for me.
33:08And then it's also what I do on those calls is I say to my clients, like, if I make you
33:12an offer, I'm going to help you come to the decision.
33:16So I like to finish those calls on the call.
33:19So you know how some people go like, oh, I'll think about it.
33:23It's not really me doing my job, because my job is to help people make decisions.
33:27So I help people make a decision.
33:31You won't hurt my feelings whether you say yes or no.
33:33But if I feel they're the right person, then I will help them to make a decision whether
33:37they want to move forward or not there and then.
33:39Because even just saying to someone, you know what, I don't think this is right for me,
33:43it's so empowering.
33:45And I would rather let someone leave having made an empowered decision for themselves,
33:50a decision that they can own on that call with me, then say, oh, I'm not sure and go
33:56and leave these, you know, not knowing.
33:59So we have a very, very powerful conversation, whether it's yes or no, when you get on the
34:03phone with me.
34:05And yeah, if I make an offer and they say yes, then we start working together.
34:08Well, that's amazing.
34:09And they meet you in person.
34:11There are regular, you know, like, I mean, I guess meetings, I guess, yeah.
34:16Generally, we do once a week.
34:18It depends what the person needs.
34:21And Zoom, or sometimes some clients do want face to face, but generally people are okay
34:25with Zoom because they do it, you know, in the morning or so for a table of trust.
34:30And I have some international clients as well.
34:32Oh, that's really cool.
34:33And do you follow up with your clients once they're done with like your program?
34:36Do you still have like a relationship with them, sort of see like what they've reached
34:40and the progress that they've made?
34:41You get really close to someone, you know, don't forget, you know, when you're speaking
34:45to someone once a week for like 12 weeks or six months, you get really close.
34:51So you develop and I'm such an empath as well, like, I feel I'm like, I can really feel my
34:56clients pain that you do, you develop a really close friendship and relationship.
35:02And then, you know, we might stop working together for six months, but then they'll
35:05come back and say, actually, there's something else that's come up.
35:08So, yeah, you do get really close to people.
35:12You can't help it.
35:13Yeah, I know.
35:14It's like spending so much time with the person you might as well.
35:16It's like having a colleague, you know, you know, their deepest, darkest thoughts.
35:19Yeah, that's so true.
35:20That's so true.
35:21And they come to you like trusting you.
35:23So yeah, of course, there's a there's a bond that's based on trust.
35:28And that means a lot.
35:29My last question, what's next for Nuna?
35:32So my big thing at the moment is, which is why I set up Neonor is I really want to do
35:40a lot of corporate coaching, because I really believe that on mass, we can start teaching
35:46people how to connect to themselves.
35:48I have this belief that, you know, if you want to be a really effective and strong leader,
35:54if you're managing people, you cannot lead people unless you're leading yourself.
35:58So I really believe that the corporate world really needs to take responsibility for building
36:04people up from the inside, for teaching their employees how to be more self-confident, how
36:10to recognize what their limiting beliefs are, how to understand all of the things that we've
36:15been talking about today, because you can teach someone all the strategy in the world.
36:21But if they don't have a belief that they can do the job, it's never going to work.
36:25You can if someone believes that they can do it with zero strategy, they will do well.
36:30So imagine if you've got the belief, you've got the confidence, and you've got the strategy,
36:38companies are going to have so much more productive employees.
36:40Transformational, of course.
36:42So that's my aim, to transform the corporate coaching and training in the corporate world.
36:48Love it.
36:49Thank you so much for coming on.
36:50And thank you for the lovely conversation.
36:54And we'd love to have you back if there's something new and interesting that you'd like
36:58to talk about.
36:59Absolutely.
37:00You're more than welcome.
37:01And yeah, thank you so much.
37:02Thank you so much for having me.
37:03I really enjoyed that.