Tell Me Why podcast host Maria Botros speaks to Dr. Saliha Afridi, Clinical Psychologist and Managing Director of The Lighthouse Arabia, about the difference between stress and anxiety
Anxiety is a mobilizing response to something that will occur in the future
Research shows that 80% of our health issues are a result of stress
Stress gets out of hand when the demands of your life over exceed your resources
People should pay attention to the 'little' stress that occurs regularly, rather than the occasional 'big' stress
Stress becomes dangerous when people resort to other habits like smoking, shopping or even eating
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#UAEnews #podcast #stress
Anxiety is a mobilizing response to something that will occur in the future
Research shows that 80% of our health issues are a result of stress
Stress gets out of hand when the demands of your life over exceed your resources
People should pay attention to the 'little' stress that occurs regularly, rather than the occasional 'big' stress
Stress becomes dangerous when people resort to other habits like smoking, shopping or even eating
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #stress
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NewsTranscript
00:00I mean, it's a research fact that if you have the wrong people around you, you are far more
00:05compromised.
00:06There you go.
00:08You are not going to be happy.
00:09There you go.
00:10Period.
00:11Yeah.
00:12So really look at who's around you.
00:13And of course, we can't choose our family and we might be in places where we have to
00:18deal with difficult colleagues, you're just gonna have to limit those interactions and
00:22you're going to resource up before you go in front of those people.
00:25But who are your people that you go to, where you are in your pajamas, and you can just
00:31be like, hey, listen, I just want to talk and hey, why don't you come hang out and let's
00:34have a burger like it's not about what you do, it's just you're hanging out and being
00:41with those people, right?
00:43And they're being with you, you are supporting them, and they are supporting you.
00:51Hello, hello, and welcome back to our regular listeners and welcome aboard to any new listeners
00:59joining us today for the first time.
01:01This is your Tell Me Why podcast, which is a Gulf News original podcast.
01:06And in this podcast, for those of you who don't know, we discuss a wide range of topics.
01:11So we do health and well-being, we do social topics, and we recently launched a mini series
01:17within the podcast called Get to Know the CEO, which is a bit more business related.
01:23Now in doing so, we bring in the experts to answer your questions, hence Tell Me Why.
01:28We like to dig deeper, we like to get you the answers that you don't necessarily find
01:33either on the internet or by asking a friend.
01:36Now without further ado, joining me in the studio today is Dr. Saleha Afridi, who is
01:41a clinical psychologist and the managing director of the Lighthouse Arabia, which is a health
01:47and wellness clinic here in Dubai.
01:49Is that correct?
01:50That's right.
01:51It's nice to be here.
01:53Yeah.
01:54How are you doing?
01:55How is your way in?
01:56How's everything?
01:57Good.
01:58Good.
01:59Cannot complain.
02:01Well, that's good.
02:02That's good.
02:03So, Dr. Saleha, today we're going to be discussing a topic that I think a lot of people can relate
02:05to.
02:06I think there are going to be a lot of light bulbs, you know, with people listening to
02:10this specific podcast episode.
02:12We're going to be discussing stress and anxiety.
02:16And I think a lot of people group these two together, but they don't know that, okay,
02:21they do have similarities, but they're different.
02:24But before we dive into that, I want to get to know you first.
02:27And we want our audience to get to know you first.
02:29So tell us about yourself.
02:31Tell us about your specialty.
02:33Like, do you specialize in a certain, you know, area of psychology and what got you
02:40into psychology?
02:41Oh, that's a really long story.
02:43So I'll just say that I followed the feeling, I followed the heart, and it led me into psychology.
02:52And I always say that if the feeling leads me elsewhere, I will go elsewhere, but it
02:59has not yet.
03:00And it's been now 20 years that I've been in this space.
03:04So a long time, a lifetime and more that I have been a psychologist.
03:10I'm also the founder, managing director of the Lighthouse Arabia, which is the mental
03:17health clinic and well-being clinic in Dubai.
03:21We have two branches, and we're one of the largest clinics in the region of psychologists.
03:27So I feel very proud of the work that we do.
03:30I'm a mother of four children.
03:32Wow.
03:33And three of them are teenagers, an 18-year-old, a 16-year-old, 14-year-old, and an eight-year-old.
03:41And I love them, and they drive me crazy.
03:45As kids should, yes.
03:46As they should.
03:47Yes, exactly.
03:48It's part of their job description, and it's part of mine to deal with it.
03:53And then I also live with my parents, and I live within like a community with my brother.
03:59And so it's quite a full house at work, as well as with my family.
04:04So I am very familiar with stress and knowing how to manage that, especially, you know,
04:11I think things really got turned up quite a lot after the pandemic.
04:17Working women, just women in general, working mothers, I have felt it all, been through
04:23it all while I was coaching people through it.
04:26So it's been full on.
04:28So your personal experience sort of fed into your professional, you know, career.
04:34You basically could relate, and you could use that to help you with your patients, I guess.
04:41I am one of everyone.
04:43What everyone is going through, I am going through.
04:45It's just that I might know ways that work for me, or I might be a bit more attuned to it,
04:52because that is just what I've done as a skill, is become quite attuned to the emotions,
04:57be attuned to the body.
04:59But for sure, this psychologist struggle, and I am not different from any other human being, for sure.
05:08And it does inform my practice.
05:10If I say, okay, well, if I'm feeling this, then there must be someone else that also is feeling this.
05:16Precisely.
05:18Most likely, people are.
05:20Of course, yeah.
05:21And there are so many moments in our life where we mentioned something, and then you
05:24find three other people in the same sitting going, oh, my gosh, I also experienced this.
05:29And that sort of gives you that confirmation that we are all human.
05:33We all go through similar, you know, challenges and obstacles through life.
05:38Yes.
05:39All right.
05:40So you did mention that we, you know, coping mechanisms, and you know, like, the way around it, basically.
05:45We're going to get into that.
05:47But before we do, because we were discussing this before the show, and I think a lot of
05:52people confuse the two, stress and anxiety.
05:55So if we could maybe just define what each is and what the difference is between the two.
06:01Sure.
06:02So stress is when you are, when the external demands outweigh your internal resources.
06:14So that's when you are stressing the system.
06:17Not all stress is bad.
06:19Some stress is actually good for you.
06:21So when you are running on the treadmill, you are activating the stress response in
06:27your body.
06:28And that is a good thing, because it is then what when you stress the system, then the
06:33system says, okay, I've got to now meet that demand.
06:37And that's how you grow.
06:39And that's how you expand your abilities, whether it's physical strength or mental strength,
06:45you do have to put a little bit of pressure or a little bit of stress onto that system
06:49in order for that system to then expand beyond what it is comfortable with.
06:55So you think about your comfort zone as having no stress, but you think about your growth
07:00zone as having some stress, but you are able to meet those demands and adapt and then push
07:07yourself out and then meet those demands and adapt.
07:11Anxiety is, we all have anxiety, and you can think about anxiety on a spectrum.
07:19There is low anxiety to no anxiety.
07:23And that is not necessarily helpful when you actually need anxiety.
07:27So think about someone who has no anxiety, they wouldn't make it in this world.
07:33They wouldn't be able to perform on their school exams, they wouldn't be able to perform
07:38on their work interview, they wouldn't show up to a podcast prepared.
07:43They wouldn't care because they have no anxiety.
07:46So anxiety is this feeling that I have to prepare myself or I have to, when I think
07:56about something in the future, that makes me prepare.
08:00That could be anxiety.
08:02So anxiety is a result of thoughts that you have about an experience.
08:10It's not fear.
08:11Fear is where I see danger in my environment and I have the full fight or flight response.
08:17Anxiety is where I think about something and it activates a enough fight or flight response
08:23where it gets me mobilized.
08:25So think about it as a mobilizing response.
08:28Now too much anxiety and you are now going to be flooded.
08:33If you stay in that space, it could be a clinical disorder where you are being diagnosed with
08:39anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety, phobia, then you have too much.
08:44You don't want too little.
08:46You don't want too much.
08:47You just want enough where it mobilizes you and makes you prepared.
08:53If I did not have anxiety during COVID, I would be going around hugging people, high
08:58fiving people at a time where we were in an environment where we needed to protect ourselves.
09:05But if I had too much anxiety, I would lock myself up in my room and I would never come
09:09out.
09:10That's the difference between having no anxiety, too much anxiety, and then having just enough
09:15anxiety.
09:17So anxiety is a healthy thing if it is managed.
09:24Stress is a healthy thing if it is managed.
09:26Now internally, the fight or flight response is the same.
09:32So we have a same response.
09:35You come and tell me there's a deadline.
09:37You got to meet it by 4 p.m. today.
09:40Immediately, the stress response, which is the fight or flight response, kicks on.
09:46Oh my God, what do I have to do?
09:48What do I have to reschedule?
09:49How am I going to shift things?
09:51How am I going to show up for this?
09:52So I'm mobilized now to do that.
09:55That is the fight or flight response.
09:57Now when you kick on that fight or flight response, certain things happen in the body.
10:02Brain communicates to the certain organs.
10:05They release certain chemicals.
10:06I'm not going to get too technical, but two of them being adrenaline and cortisol, that
10:11kicks on certain things.
10:12Now cortisol goes and says, all right, listen, digestive system, I don't need you.
10:18Reproductive system, I don't need you.
10:20Others immunity, I don't need you.
10:22I need all the energy to be mobilized for us to complete this task.
10:29The liver starts to break down the glycogen into glucose.
10:34All of these things start to happen where it says, all right, all engines go.
10:38You've got to meet this demand.
10:40And that's what is a good thing.
10:42We want to be pushed out.
10:44That actually strengthens us.
10:45Now when it becomes problematic is when that stress goes on and on and on.
10:55Because it was that precise stress response that allowed us to survive on this rotating
10:59planet in the middle of the universe, in the jungle, through the desert, in the savannah.
11:08That is exactly what we needed.
11:09We needed that little bit of anxiety.
11:11We needed that fight or flight response to be able to say, hey, what went wrong yesterday?
11:16We've got to make sure that that doesn't happen today.
11:18And so we needed some of that.
11:20And that's why we still have the fight or flight response.
11:23But now instead of fighting that bear, we are fighting the demands of life or that boss
11:29that might be too demanding, or the mother-in-law, or, or.
11:32So that would be the stress and anxiety.
11:36The internal fight or flight response is the same.
11:39Stress is usually to an external demand.
11:41Anxiety is usually as a result of a thought that is then kicking on that fight or flight.
11:46Amazing.
11:47Thank you for getting into the technical side of it, because that was actually my next question.
11:51I wanted to get into the scientific aspect of it.
11:54I wanted to know what happens neurologically, like when someone feels stressed or anxious,
11:59and what happens physically?
12:01Are there any physical, you know, implications on the body when it's too much, as you mentioned?
12:07So if you could mention like a couple of, you know, physical symptoms that might appear
12:13as a result of that anxiety or stress.
12:17Well, the research shows that over 80% of our health issues, anything.
12:24Take from cardiac issues, to diabetes, to respiratory issues, to GI tract issues, to
12:31hair loss, to acne, to loss of libido, any of these issues, over 80, close to 90% are
12:39going to be a result of stress.
12:43So that's basically everything that you can think of, because what we are, and what people
12:50say, well, no, no, I have a genetic predisposition to diabetes.
12:54Let's take diabetes, for example.
12:56I have a genetic predisposition.
12:59The research now finds through epigenetics that the epigenetics research shows that we
13:05all carry the gene.
13:09Some of us carry, you might carry the diabetes gene, I might carry the diabetes gene, so
13:13does my sister, and we are carrying the gene.
13:17Our lifestyle, i.e. stress, is going to be the one that turns on that gene.
13:26It's like a trigger.
13:27It's the trigger.
13:28So it's called the stress diathesis model.
13:30There must be enough stress onto the system that certain genes get unlocked, and that
13:37disease is then triggered.
13:39So my sister could have diabetes and me not.
13:43Why?
13:44We both carry the gene.
13:45It's just that I have a lifestyle that protects against certain conditions.
13:51So any of these medical conditions, you can trace back to stress onto the system.
13:58But if on the day-to-day psychological things like racing mind, rapid heart rate, breathing
14:05heavily, sweaty arms, you know, this physiological, not psychological, physiological response
14:13would be that.
14:14So cognitively, we can't concentrate, we can't think straight, we feel, we can't organize
14:20our thoughts psychologically, we might start to get really narrow in our aperture.
14:25Now we only start to see the problems, because that's what happens when you're stressed.
14:30You literally become like this.
14:32Your aperture has to narrow, because in your body, the fight or flight response, which
14:37is our survival response, has kicked on.
14:39And we're not looking around to see, oh, all the beautiful things that are, oh, let me
14:43look at these flowers, or let me look at that picture, no.
14:47It actually narrows, and it only starts to focus on the problem.
14:50So you become a lot more problem-focused, you start to withdraw from people, you start
14:55to isolate yourself, you start to get really hard on yourself.
14:59All of these things could be a result of stress.
15:01Of course.
15:02Eventually, you stay with stress, stress, stress, it becomes chronic.
15:06Chronic stress eventually results in burnout.
15:09Burnout eventually could result in neurological and structural brain changes that could then
15:15result in depression, anxiety, and other mental health difficulties.
15:22Right.
15:23Okay, so if I'm listening to this today, and I think, okay, maybe sometimes this gets out
15:29of hand, what are some coping mechanisms?
15:31So you were saying that anxiety and stress can be good for a person if there's a good
15:39balance of them both.
15:41So what happens if I can't control it?
15:43What if I reach that danger zone?
15:45Yeah, it is a danger zone.
15:51That's when you know that the demands of your life are overexceeding your resources.
16:00We all have resources, and there are things that give us energy all day long.
16:05I could have a cup of tea, I could have a good phone call, I could see a funny meme
16:10on social media.
16:12These are like little drops into our pool of resources.
16:15And then there are things that are depleting us.
16:18The thing that we didn't speak about, Maria, is actually it's not the big stress.
16:24It's actually the little stress that we need to have on our radar, which most people don't
16:29have on their radar.
16:31Interesting.
16:32Big stress, little stress.
16:33That's new.
16:34There is a capital S stress, and then there is a little s stress.
16:38And the capital S stress we get geared up for.
16:41If I'm going in to have a difficult conversation with a colleague or a boss or a family member,
16:47I'm gearing up, I'm resourcing up, I'm going to go ground myself, I'm going to go soothe
16:52myself, and then I go in.
16:55But it's the little stress, all day long, small, tip, chip, chip, chip, chip, chipping
17:03away at us, that it doesn't even make it on the fight or flight radar.
17:10It actually isn't turning on that adrenaline response.
17:12It isn't turning on that cortisol.
17:14It's slowly wearing us down.
17:17And that's the stuff that most people miss.
17:22That's the stuff that most people actually then finally end up sort of collapsing under.
17:30So think about this as like, it's not the earthquake.
17:33It's the wind wearing down the mountain.
17:37You wouldn't even notice it, but it's happening.
17:40It could be something as small as that every time you go home, someone is in your parking
17:47spot.
17:48It's that.
17:49Okay.
17:51And you're like, okay, and then you have to go find another one.
17:54You brush it off every single time.
17:56Or your kids don't go to bed when you tell them to.
17:59Or the toothpaste, your partner doesn't put the toothpaste lid on.
18:03It's the small things that are wearing us.
18:06And people say don't sweat the small stuff, because it really is small.
18:10But unless you're really not sweating the small stuff, and you found a way to just not
18:15do that, if it's bothering you, those small bothers are depleting you.
18:23So either find a way to not be bothered.
18:25But if you're dismissing them like, oh, you know, we do this and we just, we do that.
18:30No, that's the stuff that eventually is going to break the camel's back.
18:36So how do you cope?
18:38Was the question.
18:39Exactly.
18:40The coping would be go to the small stuff.
18:43Where is it slowly chipping away at you?
18:47And where can you add things in your day that actually could be fueling you?
18:53So what you want is you want to keep resourcing up throughout the day.
18:58And limiting the chippers, the chipping away.
19:02So that's how we want to balance that out.
19:05So do that.
19:06Now, even when you do that, there will be some people who now are too far deep in.
19:14Now it's affecting their work.
19:18It's affecting their personal life.
19:20It's affecting the way they parent.
19:22It's affecting the way they show up in the world.
19:25Get professional help.
19:27It doesn't go away.
19:29It only gets bigger.
19:32And then you start to do things like numbing behaviors or activities.
19:39You start to self-medicate using substances or using processes like shopping or eating
19:46or drinking or smoking.
19:49We start to do some of this stuff because we just want to take the edge off.
19:54And that edge, that's when it starts to get dangerous.
19:57So if you start to find yourself feeling overwhelmed, and we all can feel so overwhelmed that we
20:02can't see clearly.
20:04It's too close to our face at this point.
20:07Get professional help.
20:08You're not going to be in therapy forever.
20:10Don't worry.
20:11You can just go in there and say, hey, listen, I'm here to learn some coping skills.
20:15I'm here to address the issues that are my small S and my big S stress.
20:19I'm here to learn how to resource up.
20:22I'm here to learn strategies.
20:25And if you do that, you can be out of there eight to 12 sessions.
20:29So it can get very practical in the therapy room.
20:34There are some therapists who don't do it that way.
20:36I do more insight-oriented work.
20:38I don't work with people that are very symptomatic.
20:41So there's different types of therapy, but there is very strategies-based, technical,
20:49practical therapy that you can get in order for you to learn ways to cope with that.
20:55So I would say get professional help.
20:57I'm just so glad that you mentioned that people are sort of like escaping the stress
21:03and trying to, you know, let it out either through retail therapy is what we call retail
21:11therapy when we overshop or eat or like let out that stress by overeating.
21:17I think I did go through a time in my life where I was suppressing it.
21:21I was trying to escape it in any way.
21:24So distracting myself with a sport or a new activity or a hobby, trying to learn something
21:30new, thinking that that was the right way to deal with it when actually I was just,
21:35you know, it was just piling up inside me.
21:39But then, you know, you get other people saying, but you need an outlet.
21:43So it's okay for me to go and let's say, release that stress by going swimming, for instance.
21:53What would you say to those people like who say, but I need the outlet.
21:56So would you say that it doesn't contradict the coping mechanisms, it complements it,
22:02but you still have to address them?
22:04Precisely.
22:05Okay.
22:06Two words, and also.
22:08Make them your best friend.
22:10And also.
22:11Right.
22:12You cannot deny.
22:15You must also.
22:17And also.
22:18I will go swimming and I will also journal and talk, think through this.
22:23I will get a new hobby and I will also go to therapy and do the hard work.
22:28It cannot all be positive.
22:31I watch Netflix and there are days where I'm like, today is going to be one of those days.
22:36I'm moving out of my pajamas and I'm going to lay in bed.
22:39And also tomorrow I will get to this.
22:43So it's never one thing.
22:46And what works for you is not going to work for me.
22:48And what works for him and not going to work for her.
22:50So it's really important that you think, okay, well, what works for me, I need to keep
22:55putting things in that give me energy and I need to keep taking things out that I need
23:01to be addressing.
23:03So think about that as a balance that you need to meet in inside of you.
23:09If you deny, distract, escape, numb, any of these things, it gets bigger.
23:16That's the problem.
23:17Most people think that, well, let me just put that away and it will go away.
23:24It doesn't go away.
23:25And it doesn't even stay the same.
23:27It gets bigger.
23:29That's the problem.
23:31And then when you actually do have to confront it, it is so big that you feel very small
23:38and overwhelmed by it.
23:40Of course.
23:41It's like an open wound.
23:42You keep ignoring it and you don't disinfect it.
23:45It's just going to get worse and worse and could lead to other complications.
23:50So you're absolutely right.
23:51But then when is too much stress, too much stress, like I don't know how to ask that,
23:59but like when is it too much stress?
24:00Like what if I feel helpless?
24:02Like I've had friends who've been so overwhelmed and so stressed that they can't even get up
24:08and get the help they need.
24:10So what do you do in situations like that?
24:12Like what's the responsibility of maybe their family and friends and how do you get them
24:17to listen?
24:18Because at that point, they're just closed off like they are in their bubble.
24:22They don't want to listen.
24:23They're overwhelmed.
24:24They feel like that's it.
24:26Like that's the end.
24:27I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel, as they say.
24:30So what do you do in situations like that?
24:33I think in that situation, eliminate the burden on them.
24:39Do whatever you can.
24:41If it's thinking about what they're going to eat for that week, just say, I've got the
24:44meal plans.
24:45You don't have to worry about that.
24:46I'll pick up the dry cleaning.
24:47I got the kids.
24:49At that point, what you want to do is you want to give them some relief from the things
24:55that are the small S's in their life.
24:57You might not be able to tell them what to do with the big S that they might be contending
25:02with, but deal with all the little S's that you can deal with.
25:05Hopefully that person has people in their life who are first aiders, mental health first
25:11aiders.
25:12They are responders.
25:14They are part of their tribe that says, I've got you.
25:18And I can see that you're really overwhelmed.
25:20I'm even going to pick out your outfits for the week.
25:23It's on this rack.
25:24You don't even have to think about it.
25:25Just put those on.
25:26Like it's these small things that, you know, that really, really break us eventually.
25:34So eliminate as much as you can.
25:36That's what I would say.
25:37I would also say to those people that are in this person's life is help them find the
25:46therapist.
25:49Do the homework.
25:51When I have to call 18 clinics and everyone is fully booked or I can't find the right
25:57person or I don't want to find the research, I'm already...
26:03That's already stressful.
26:04That's it.
26:05Like it's too much for me.
26:06So do the work for them.
26:08Find the therapist for them.
26:10Book the appointment for them.
26:12Go to the, drive them to the appointment if you can.
26:14Sit with them for the appointment.
26:18That's how you say, I've handled all of it.
26:21All you got to do is show up.
26:22And I've done that for people, for mental health appointments, but also for physical
26:27health appointments.
26:28Like you don't even have to think about it because the feeling feels so big that you
26:33are overwhelmed with that feeling and then you're just almost shell-shocked.
26:37And you move into what is considered the dorsal response, which is we all human beings have
26:44a fight or flight response, but we also have this immobilized.
26:49There's a mobilized and immobilized.
26:52So it's almost like the play dead.
26:54So in the jungle, you will see that animals will either fight, they will run or they will
27:02play dead.
27:04And because, oh my God, it's too big, play dead and hope that he will not smell me or
27:11hear me or breathe.
27:12That playing dead is what most people, when they shut down, they've gone into an immobilized
27:19response, which is also called the dorsal vagal response.
27:22And that literally shuts them down.
27:24What we want to do is we will slowly want to remove things off of them so they can move
27:30back into the fight or flight response where they will then be activated.
27:34So they don't feel like they're in so much danger that they can't move.
27:38They literally can't move.
27:39Because sometimes you look at people and you're like, hello, do you not see this?
27:45Why aren't you doing something about this?
27:48They're shut down.
27:49It's a trauma response.
27:51They're actually flooded in that moment.
27:54I've seen kids.
27:56I've seen men.
27:58I've seen women, all ages, all stages, literally flooded where their frontal lobe is shut down.
28:05They're shut down and they are like, I actually don't know what to do.
28:08I'm so overwhelmed.
28:09I can't even think straight.
28:10And what you are just saying, just pick up this.
28:14That's all you have to do.
28:15And they're like, I can't.
28:16I don't even like I don't even know what that's going to do to me.
28:19I don't I don't know. I can't do it.