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00:00:00Hey, everyone, this is Jon M. Chu, the director of Wicked, and I am here with my longtime
00:00:10editor, Myron Kirstein.
00:00:11That doesn't mean you're old, Myron, but you make my life so easy and so nice.
00:00:18We spend more time together.
00:00:20You're my work husband, I guess.
00:00:23You know more secrets about my life than anyone, and it's so nice to be here talking about
00:00:27Wicked.
00:00:28Thanks, Jon.
00:00:30This couldn't make me happier.
00:00:31Couldn't be happier as far as, yeah, just doing this bohemoth of a film, two films,
00:00:39and sitting here with you.
00:00:40I'm just so lucky.
00:00:43What do you hate most about me?
00:00:45No, when is our process the best, and when is our process the worst?
00:00:52And you don't have to use me exactly as an example.
00:00:54You can just say generally when a director does this or that.
00:00:57Well, generally, the process with you is very similar to the process with all my directors.
00:01:07It's a process.
00:01:08It's exactly that.
00:01:09It's like there's moments where we discover things together that we are really happy with,
00:01:17and we refine things, and I love that.
00:01:21There's moments where we, you know, scratch our heads or pull out our hair as far as not
00:01:28being able to solve a section of a movie.
00:01:30For example, the beginning of Wicked, it took a long time to figure out how to make that
00:01:34work.
00:01:36And then there's moments where we can just sit back and enjoy the audience together and
00:01:40just love how the audience is enjoying what we've put together in the edit room.
00:01:46And what I like about editing in general, and what I've learned over time, is to not
00:01:51rush the process.
00:01:53But it is about, it's a cliche, but it's about the journey of making that movie together
00:01:59and discovering things in the edit and being very patient with the process, not to rush
00:02:04the process.
00:02:05I think sometimes even when you first get dailies, you're like, I got to cut it and
00:02:10make it into something.
00:02:12And what I love is about, at least when I work with you, is like I could take my time
00:02:18and really try to learn the footage and enjoy it and find the magic, the butterflies, you
00:02:27know, the gold together.
00:02:30And that is really, really satisfying as an artist.
00:02:34And just so everyone watching knows, our process is, he doesn't really see, you don't see any
00:02:43cut things from the storyboards or any previs.
00:02:47Sometimes they'll be like a thing that you sort of need to know.
00:02:49But like most of the time you have no, you're going in blind and you're just watching the
00:02:54dailies and you have to figure it out with the dailies, which is a little bit scary,
00:02:59but I love that.
00:03:00And I love that we have the same instincts or different instincts that build something.
00:03:04So you're very pure going into it.
00:03:07You're there on location, but you're not necessarily there on set.
00:03:12And what other parts of your process that is that, so people know?
00:03:18Just the ritual of watching dailies in a theater, in both London and here in LA, I had a theater,
00:03:26a small theater built to make it feel like a little movie theater and just watch those
00:03:30dailies like a first audience member.
00:03:32So I really liked that ritual of watching things and letting it wash over me.
00:03:37And if I have a notion of something making me cry or I have goosebumps or I laugh at
00:03:44something, I'll make note in a database without making any slacks or any notes.
00:03:48Like I just like it as if you're shooting it on the day, just sort of washing over me
00:03:53and just feeling that real first peer experience.
00:03:57And then from there it's construction and refinement.
00:04:01And that of course takes years on a film like Wicked.
00:04:05But you know, having that time to just, you know, learn that footage and not rush it is
00:04:13probably the biggest part of the process to me.
00:04:16And just to know your history a little bit, you've done obviously these kind of big movies,
00:04:23but also little movies from Black and White to Garden State.
00:04:31What are your, what do you prefer to do or what are your different modes when you're
00:04:35doing those different things?
00:04:36And include in that, you know, a musical movie is probably very different than those other
00:04:40things.
00:04:41Well, when I was younger, I definitely jumped on the idea of like, I just need to start
00:04:46cutting and not learning the footage as well.
00:04:48Like I, but ultimately every film I've ever worked on, it's always been about performance
00:04:54to me and what, how I've responded to performance and how that's going to force the editing
00:04:58one way or another.
00:05:00I've just gotten more confident in that and more restrained as far as like cutting something
00:05:08just to cut something.
00:05:11And then just trying to be a little bit more refined about how my process is as far as
00:05:20like not rushing through it.
00:05:23And generally my philosophy is not to cut any movie differently, whether it's a musical
00:05:28or it's a drama or if it's a thriller or something that feels like, you know, going in style,
00:05:35which is like a bank robbery scene, you know, you know, I definitely learned a lot working
00:05:42on musicals from working on In the Heights and Tick, Tick, Boom and Wicked.
00:05:46But you were on, were you on Hedwig when you were younger too?
00:05:49And yeah, I was on Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
00:05:51You know, I did, you know, I did a lot of films that had music in them, like Garden
00:05:56State and Nick Norris' Infamous Playlist and the remake of Fame.
00:06:01And, you know, even as an assistant editor, I worked on Velvet Goldmine.
00:06:04So I had a lot of, we always joke that we've been training for this moment all our lives.
00:06:10And I have have, it really is the case that I worked on a lot of things that had music
00:06:14driven things in it that was all leading to this moment.
00:06:21And you have good taste too.
00:06:23You're pretty cool for an old guy.
00:06:25You know, you're pretty good.
00:06:27Yeah.
00:06:29So what I love about our relationship too, is I often talk about, you know, the different
00:06:36mentalities of being on set and what I give to you.
00:06:40And we just try to, I always, you know, I grew up in a restaurant, Chinese restaurant.
00:06:44So my dad's a chef.
00:06:45And so I, the fact that you are the master chef and I am there to collect as many ingredients
00:06:52as possible.
00:06:53And that comes from the performance first, of course, yes, the camera, choreography,
00:06:57all those things.
00:06:58But really the performance is the juice.
00:07:00And I'm going to try to milk in many different ways so that you have all the juices in front
00:07:04of you.
00:07:05If you want a little salt, you want a little sugar, you can do your thing with it.
00:07:11And so for me, that's why I've loved working with you.
00:07:15We did Crazy Rich Asians first, which was our first sort of a blind date.
00:07:20People had spoken very great things about you.
00:07:22We met, we connected and Crazy Rich Asian, we had to build something out of nothing.
00:07:25I mean, it had no language, visual language yet.
00:07:28And we built this great tapestry of, felt like a musical, even though it wasn't a musical.
00:07:32And it had a great balance of sort of romantic comedy that everyone can love, but also this
00:07:39very specific, very personal identity story of self-worth.
00:07:45And so I love, and that when it hit, I just, I love that you were able to transcend anything,
00:07:51any genre that this was in.
00:07:52And so to go from there to now, we did In the Heights, of course, and now Wicked.
00:07:59What was the most daunting thing coming into this movie for you?
00:08:03Just the scale, the scale and the IP of the Broadway musical, but also of The Wizard of
00:08:11Oz.
00:08:12You know, it just felt like it was monumental, the scale.
00:08:16I remember walking onto the sets for the first time and it felt like Disneyland.
00:08:21And it was, you know, I had never been on sets that big.
00:08:24I don't think anybody had been on sets that big.
00:08:27And just feeling the pressure of the expectations of the studio.
00:08:33I think somebody from the studio said to me, this is one of the biggest films Universal
00:08:38has ever made.
00:08:39And I was like, you're Universal.
00:08:41How is that possible?
00:08:42And then it was possible.
00:08:44We were making, and they're making a big bet on us.
00:08:47They're making a big bet on you and I and the rest of the team to deliver something
00:08:53epic and great for the world.
00:08:56And so I, feeling that.
00:08:58Not just one movie, two movies, remind people, that we edited.
00:09:03We had both movies last year to look at back to back so we weren't in the dark of knowing
00:09:08what movie one needed to be.
00:09:10Yeah.
00:09:11So having, you know, the scale of it was immense.
00:09:15But, you know, again, we've been training for this moment all our lives.
00:09:18And there was a bar that I wanted to meet for myself and for the studio and for you.
00:09:24And I wanted to surpass that.
00:09:26And I wanted to prove that I could do something.
00:09:29I've always wanted to work on a film that had fantasy elements and romantic elements
00:09:35and, you know, big, big musical set pieces.
00:09:43I've wanted this for my entire career.
00:09:45So someone's like, OK, get ready.
00:09:49We're going to give you the keys to the kingdom.
00:09:51Let's go.
00:09:52And you're like, OK, well, let's let's see what you have.
00:09:55And so you have to meet those moments when you when you get in the room and they say,
00:10:00OK, it's your job to deliver, then you have to deliver.
00:10:05But you know, at first it's always scary.
00:10:07It's always terrifying.
00:10:08It's always and it's it's it's also exciting.
00:10:12You're like your heart's beating.
00:10:14You're just like, oh, my God, this is I'm in Oz.
00:10:17I'm you know, I'm I'm with the the best of the best.
00:10:21You know, Alice Brooks is shooting this.
00:10:23Nathan Crowley, Paul Tazewell, you know, Francis, you know, this, you know,
00:10:28ILM Framestore is doing our VFX.
00:10:30You know, John Powell is doing the score like everybody is at the top of their game.
00:10:36And you're like, OK, I need to meet that.
00:10:38And I have to meet this moment.
00:10:41And on top of that, Cynthia and Ariana, tell me.
00:10:44Last question before we jump into maybe some clips.
00:10:48How was it to edit them, to see all their performances?
00:10:51And what struck you about them when you first seeing their performances in this
00:10:56day after day and seeing Cynthia and Ari?
00:10:58I was weeping. I was crying.
00:11:03I was laughing.
00:11:05And literally you're weeping because I get texts on set.
00:11:08Yeah, I would send you I would send you I started this on in the Heights,
00:11:13not so much in Crazy Rich Asians because still getting to know you.
00:11:16But in the Heights, I started sending video.
00:11:18I don't think I gave you my number.
00:11:19Oh, yeah, OK.
00:11:20Either you're like, this kid's going to go any minute.
00:11:24But yeah, I just I I really felt
00:11:29how grounded Cynthia was and and how
00:11:33how I felt a deep connection
00:11:35to a character who's being bullied.
00:11:39You know, I you know, I was a geeky kid when I was, you know, I was
00:11:45beat up by, you know, the jocks and whatever, what have you like.
00:11:49And then, you know, and then Ari is like, this is this,
00:11:53you know, something out of out of, you know, pillow talk or Audrey Hepburn.
00:11:58And and she's making me laugh and giggle.
00:12:01And then and then at the same time, I'm feeling also emotion with her
00:12:05and Sylvia's dailies of the Ozdas Ballroom.
00:12:07I was feeling this complete meal as far as their performances
00:12:12was concerned.
00:12:13And like I said before, like they gave me a lot to work with.
00:12:16And so I really appreciated how you were exploring their characters together
00:12:23as separate characters, but also as their relationship.
00:12:25And I was really believing in it very quickly.
00:12:30Like sometimes when an editor, you're like, are they going to work?
00:12:33Like, is this going to work?
00:12:35And that was not the case with them.
00:12:37I felt I felt really connected to what both of them were doing.
00:12:42You know, Ari, of course, we didn't know at all because she was just this pop singer.
00:12:47And we didn't you know, I knew her a little bit from, you know,
00:12:50from the shows that she did, you know, on Disney, et cetera.
00:12:55And and but I didn't know her as an actor.
00:13:01Cynthia, of course, I knew a little bit from her past work,
00:13:04but I didn't know how they were going to work together.
00:13:07I didn't know what you were going to bring to them as far
00:13:10and what they're going to give to you.
00:13:12And so when you're watching it for the first time
00:13:15and also it's so different than the stage show,
00:13:19both of their their their
00:13:22interpretations of the characters was very different.
00:13:24So I'm processing a lot.
00:13:26But in my heart, I'm feeling something.
00:13:28So I know that there's a good chance that it's working when I'm getting goosebumps
00:13:33and I'm crying and I'm I'm laughing.
00:13:35I know that there's something there there.
00:13:38Yeah, I felt like a discovery every day, and I loved it.
00:13:42There's no one else better to discover things than you.
00:13:46And I knew this was the right movie for us to do together for you specifically,
00:13:51because all your movies, you dig into the relationships.
00:13:55It's the the nerve endings that connect people
00:13:59to people, a community.
00:14:00And you're so good at that.
00:14:02You can see it in all your work.
00:14:03And that's the stuff that's most important for me.
00:14:06So as we look at these clips,
00:14:09know that that that that that that I appreciate you.
00:14:12And thank you. Thanks, John.
00:14:14Love you.
00:14:22What is this feeling so sudden and new?
00:14:26I felt the moment I laid eyes on you.
00:14:29My pulse is rushing.
00:14:31My head is reeling.
00:14:32Well, my face is flushing.
00:14:34What is this feeling?
00:14:35The firmament has a flame.
00:14:38Does it have a name?
00:14:42Yes.
00:14:48Loathing, unadulterated loathing
00:14:52for your face, your voice, your clothing.
00:14:56Let's just say I love it all.
00:15:00Every little trick, however small,
00:15:03makes my very flesh begin to crawl.
00:15:06The simple utter loathing.
00:15:08There's a strange exhilaration
00:15:12in such total detestation.
00:15:15It's so pure, so strong.
00:15:19Though I do admit it came on fast.
00:15:22Still, I do believe that it can last.
00:15:25And I will be loathing, loathing you my whole life long.
00:15:33Dear Galinda, you are just too good.
00:15:36How do you stand it?
00:15:37I don't think I could.
00:15:38She's a terror.
00:15:39She's a tartar.
00:15:40We don't mean to show a bias.
00:15:42But Galinda, you're a martyr.
00:15:44Well, these things are sent to try us all.
00:16:00Poor Galinda, forced to reside
00:16:03with someone so disgusticified.
00:16:06We just want to tell you we're all on your side.
00:16:11We share your loathing.
00:16:13What is this feeling so sudden and new?
00:16:15Terrific loathing.
00:16:16I know the moment I will lay eyes on you.
00:16:18Perfect loathing.
00:16:19My pulse is rushing.
00:16:20Let's just say.
00:16:21My head is reeling.
00:16:22We love it all.
00:16:23Oh, what is this feeling?
00:16:25Every little trick, however small,
00:16:27makes my very flesh begin to crawl.
00:16:30The simple utter loathing.
00:16:34I'm loathing.
00:16:35Loathing.
00:16:36There's a strange exhilaration.
00:16:38Loathing.
00:16:39In such total detestation.
00:16:42Loathing.
00:16:43It's so pure and so strong.
00:16:45So strong.
00:16:46Oh, the joy when it came unfast.
00:16:49Still I do believe that it can last.
00:16:53And I will be loathing for forever.
00:16:57Loathing.
00:16:58To be loathing to you.
00:17:02Loathing to you.
00:17:05My whole life.
00:17:06Loathing.
00:17:08I'm so terribly loathing.
00:17:21When I look at what is this feeling,
00:17:24I remember all the different conversations
00:17:28about split screen and what we needed to communicate
00:17:32in the story overall.
00:17:34What do you remember as the thing
00:17:36that you really needed to get done?
00:17:37Because in the show, what is this feeling is very simple.
00:17:41It's just on the stage and they sort of run around.
00:17:43But actually in the movie,
00:17:45we had to communicate a lot more.
00:17:47Do you remember some of those things that were haunting us?
00:17:51I mean, I could say it too, but.
00:17:53I mean, I remember just a vast amount of footage
00:17:57covering a lot of different locations.
00:17:59And also this idea that we needed to show
00:18:03how Shiz is with Glinda and they're at Elphaba's throat
00:18:11and then how to communicate that with the dancers
00:18:13and the crowds there and doing that in a very efficient way.
00:18:16I love the precision of what is this feeling.
00:18:19I love how they seem like an army at Glinda's beck and call
00:18:24and how to use them to sort of just keep the pressure on.
00:18:29But also there's a tit and tat aspect to who's winning,
00:18:36who has the upper hand.
00:18:37It reminds me of those spy versus spy magazine pieces
00:18:43that I used to read as a kid.
00:18:45And I just love the efficiency of that.
00:18:49But also, we have a lot of territory to cover.
00:18:53Chris Scott, who did an incredible job,
00:18:55it's now viral, the choreography.
00:18:57He gave us a lot of options.
00:18:59He over-choreographed every section
00:19:01to give us a lot of options in the edits.
00:19:03So that is really great to have those options as an editor,
00:19:07but you also don't want it to become a big mess.
00:19:10I think what we learned within the Heights
00:19:12is you have a lot of options
00:19:14with the dancers and the community,
00:19:16but here we really wanted to focus on Glinda and Elphaba.
00:19:20And so you can get lost in the options
00:19:23and make it feel like a music video,
00:19:26but here is to,
00:19:28we really wanted to have a sheer hand in the storytelling.
00:19:31I think that's an important part
00:19:32that we talked about a lot,
00:19:33like how to not make it like a music video.
00:19:35This was not just a montage,
00:19:37that this had to do all the storytelling,
00:19:39which is time is passing in Shiz,
00:19:43that they're going to classes,
00:19:45they're doing their things
00:19:46so that by the time we come back into the story,
00:19:48we won't expect first times of meeting a professor
00:19:52or doing all those things that take up space.
00:19:54We just need to jump in.
00:19:56And I loved our conversations about that,
00:20:01but all the planting of the boastic fight in gym class
00:20:07of what happens in some stuff in movie two
00:20:09and things like that.
00:20:10Like to me, that was always really great.
00:20:13Was the split screen scary to you?
00:20:17Was that, how was that?
00:20:20Well, first of all,
00:20:21I don't ever remember you actually communicating to me
00:20:22that it was supposed to be split screens.
00:20:24It's sort of this really weird, funny thing
00:20:26that I didn't really know.
00:20:27So I was really inspired by Ari's performance
00:20:31from the get-go,
00:20:32because it gave me this feeling of,
00:20:34I was watching Doris Day or Audrey Hepburn
00:20:36or something in like a pillow talk or, you know.
00:20:41Anyways, I just felt like
00:20:43there was something really inspiring to me
00:20:45about how her performance was influencing my take on things.
00:20:49And I guess you might've had the same idea.
00:20:51So I started doing split screens
00:20:53without even talking to you about it.
00:20:56And my first initial pass of the film,
00:20:58I don't remember this,
00:20:59but I split screened the entire song
00:21:02and it was a crazy,
00:21:05it was a crazy,
00:21:07I think an amazing version of it,
00:21:10but it was kind of like really hard to understand
00:21:12and pay attention to.
00:21:13And you were like, okay, this is great.
00:21:15Why don't you calm down a little bit
00:21:16and like, let's keep it a little bit more restrained.
00:21:20And I think that that word restraint
00:21:22is something we use a lot in making Wicked.
00:21:25It's like, we can have like little modern touches
00:21:28like split screens,
00:21:30but where can we pull back and make it classy
00:21:33and not get too indulgent in any of our style choices.
00:21:37And Wicked in general has a lot of different styles in it.
00:21:41You know, we have, what is this feeling?
00:21:44We have defying gravity.
00:21:46We have, you know, the wizard and I,
00:21:48you know, so on and so forth.
00:21:50And they're a bit of a homage
00:21:55to different musicals in the past.
00:21:58So playing with that and making choices,
00:22:01but always that word restraint,
00:22:02it was something that helped guide us as our compass.
00:22:06Yeah, I love that because, you know,
00:22:07in the director's head space, when we're shooting,
00:22:10it's like gather, gather, gather,
00:22:14like get as many shots.
00:22:15So I apologize for giving you all those shots,
00:22:17but it's like get as many shots as we can.
00:22:20Let's milk this scene.
00:22:21Let's do it all versions.
00:22:23So we can really like have the ingredients
00:22:26before we pass it on to the master chef.
00:22:28And then in the edit room,
00:22:31while it's tempting to put everything in,
00:22:34I think your magic is in the distinction,
00:22:38what is precisely telling the story,
00:22:41what is emotionally precise
00:22:44and what is plot-wise needed
00:22:47to keep the engine going in the movie
00:22:49for whatever character,
00:22:50if we're following a character or for...
00:22:51So for me, I love watching you work
00:22:54because that's the way you think.
00:22:55It's not like, let's just show it all off.
00:22:58It's like, if there's a great,
00:22:59I mean, there's so many great shots
00:23:00that we don't have in it.
00:23:02And there's great so many shots that, you know,
00:23:04you could hold on choreography for as long as you want.
00:23:07But if it's not our main character in the scene
00:23:10and driving the thing forward,
00:23:11and we do both, we definitely do both.
00:23:13But I love how your brain works in that.
00:23:16How do you rhythmically, this is,
00:23:18I know I watch it,
00:23:19watch you do your brilliance in the room with a,
00:23:23but I, how do you rhythmically find it
00:23:26for something like this?
00:23:27Because you added a lot of sound effects
00:23:30to create the rhythm,
00:23:33portions of the song are expanded
00:23:34so that we can include other things
00:23:36like the entry into the cafeteria.
00:23:38When, how do you do that?
00:23:40What departments do you have to evoke to do that?
00:23:42And when do you think it's necessary to do that?
00:23:45Well, first of all, it's awesome to have like John Marquis
00:23:47and Nancy Nugent-Tidle and Jack Dolman and Andy Nelson,
00:23:52you know, working on the sound with us
00:23:53because they help sort of, you know,
00:23:56help expand our sonic universe, you know,
00:24:00even with something with what is this feeling,
00:24:03that's really helpful.
00:24:05You know, I learned over the course of
00:24:08In the Heights and Tick Tick Boom,
00:24:10and even to some extent working on Crazy Rich Asians
00:24:14to let the performance always guide me
00:24:16as far as like how I'm cutting a scene.
00:24:18And so even though a song sometimes tells me
00:24:21to cut on a beat or something,
00:24:22I just feel like ultimately it's like,
00:24:25how do I, what story do I wanna tell with the footage?
00:24:28And how do I, and then how do I milk that?
00:24:31And then I'll see, lack of a better term,
00:24:34what kind of mess I have afterwards.
00:24:36And I, you know, we work together
00:24:39as far as like massaging those edit points.
00:24:41But it's always like, if I get a little goose bump
00:24:43holding on something, or there's something emotional
00:24:47that tells me to then cut to something else,
00:24:50I think that's always my compass.
00:24:52Like, how do I expect, how does the performance
00:24:55sort of tell me how to cut a scene?
00:24:58And even with something that is, you know,
00:25:01so fast paced, like what is this feeling?
00:25:03It's a very short song.
00:25:04We have a lot of territory to cover
00:25:06in a short amount of time.
00:25:08You know, if I'm supposed to hold on Elphaba
00:25:11for this moment to hold on that look,
00:25:15I can cut to Glinda or anybody else at any given point.
00:25:18But if she's telling me to like hold on that moment,
00:25:21then I'm going to do it.
00:25:23And so that's, I feel like I'm dodging a bullet
00:25:26a little bit on the answer,
00:25:28but I just don't have a formula in which how I cut things.
00:25:32It's just an instinctual thing.
00:25:34And, you know, you could ask in the editor,
00:25:36like, why do you wanna cut?
00:25:37It's like, what is this feeling?
00:25:39It's literally a feeling that you have
00:25:42about when to go to the next shot.
00:25:44But generally it's always performance driven.
00:25:47Well, I love when you hold at the very end
00:25:49when that choreography is going,
00:25:51even though they're in the background.
00:25:53I mean, Ariana is killing it in the front
00:25:55as all the people with the books
00:25:57and they're stomping in there
00:25:58and you hold that whole thing.
00:25:59So we feel the breath of the inhale
00:26:01as we get closer to her and the exhale as it expands.
00:26:04And then she looks up and it actually,
00:26:06the whole number is really about that.
00:26:08That she may have everything,
00:26:10but the one thing she wants
00:26:11is that relationship with Morrible and she doesn't have.
00:26:14I love that you do that.
00:26:16And then at the end,
00:26:18it was never intended when we shot it
00:26:19to intercut with all those things
00:26:21and have that fast paced cutting
00:26:23before she comes in through the door.
00:26:25But you chose to do it and we kept it in there
00:26:28because there is,
00:26:31and I would love for you to talk about this,
00:26:32is like, there's a moment when the people in the frame
00:26:36are moving and the rhythmic is being driven by that.
00:26:39Then there's the moment where the camera is driving,
00:26:42whether that's contrary to what's happening within the frame
00:26:45or accentuating what's happening within the frame.
00:26:48And then there's a moment where you can take over.
00:26:50In fact, you can take over at any time
00:26:51where the editor becomes a part of the rhythm.
00:26:54And those choices are very difficult
00:26:57because an egotistical editor
00:27:01would just make their presence known at all times.
00:27:03But you very particularly choose,
00:27:04and I think you do almost all of it
00:27:06in this number in itself.
00:27:08Is there a process in that thought?
00:27:10Yeah, I mean, again, it's that word restraint
00:27:12as far as like, when am I gonna show my hand
00:27:15as far as like how I can be fancy editorially?
00:27:19And again, like just trying to learn from the,
00:27:22not past mistakes, but how I've cut things in the past
00:27:24as far as like when I can hold on our main character,
00:27:27when I can cut to a community,
00:27:32whether it's Washington Heights
00:27:34or the students of Shiz,
00:27:36when to just let the camera work do the work,
00:27:40let the choreography do the work.
00:27:41There was debate with us about
00:27:43whether or not to hold on that shot,
00:27:45because I could cut to anything at any given point,
00:27:48but here it's like a moment
00:27:49where we could just really let the storytelling
00:27:52work with the camera work and with the choreography
00:27:54and focus on Glinda's need,
00:27:58like her feeling like she needs, like you said, marble.
00:28:03And then, at the end, I was like,
00:28:05okay, now I could step in and give a little bit
00:28:09more of a flourish to say,
00:28:11not so much of this as a filmmaker here,
00:28:13but let's give a little like spice to the end of this thing.
00:28:17And that also helped set up this Elphaba boo at the end,
00:28:23which I really needed just the functionality of it.
00:28:25I needed something to sort of build
00:28:27into this sort of surprise moment.
00:28:30And so, instinctually, it was like,
00:28:32okay, I can have a little flourish.
00:28:34I can sort of show off a little bit here after,
00:28:39for the most part, feeling that restraint earlier,
00:28:41but then giving something that feels a little bit
00:28:44more rhythmically charged and more editorially special.
00:28:49And I think what people don't realize is too,
00:28:52in your position, you're not just wrangling the edits,
00:28:56you're wrangling how the visual effects are.
00:29:00We're getting pressure of how many visual effects
00:29:01should be in a shot or not.
00:29:03You're getting pressure from sound and music
00:29:05to hit certain rhythms, to be in sync for certain things.
00:29:08And yet you have your own ideas.
00:29:09So you're balancing all of this.
00:29:11And of course, Chris, our choreographer,
00:29:13is calling me up and,
00:29:15hey, can you make sure we get that one move on camera?
00:29:17And then Alice is calling,
00:29:18hey, do you have to use that shot?
00:29:20And then you have me like breathing down your neck.
00:29:22I don't know about,
00:29:24how do you keep it straight in your head?
00:29:26And how do you follow your instincts
00:29:27when so many other people's instincts are encroaching?
00:29:33Well, I love the fact that you give me a voice
00:29:35in this process.
00:29:36Like, that's why I love working with you
00:29:38since Crazy Rich Asians.
00:29:39It's just, you allow me to express myself
00:29:43through the editing as an artist.
00:29:44And so I tend to compartmentalize a little bit,
00:29:48those voices.
00:29:50I take them in and I sort of nod
00:29:52and I take note of everybody's needs and wants and desires.
00:29:55And then I say, well, what would I do?
00:29:58I tend to not be on set too much
00:30:00because I don't want to be influenced by
00:30:03how hard it was to get that shot that day
00:30:05or how amazing this performance was felt on a set.
00:30:10I just want to,
00:30:12I get the benefit of being the first audience member
00:30:16of Wicked.
00:30:17And so, and I take that very seriously.
00:30:21There's a, and so I try my best to just say,
00:30:25what as an audience member do I need to tell the story?
00:30:29And then I try to execute.
00:30:31And then I start to take everyone else's needs,
00:30:33yourself included, that you give me a lot of space
00:30:35to make my first pass without influencing me too much.
00:30:39And again, you're giving me all those spices,
00:30:41all those butterflies that you've captured
00:30:43that I then get to make this stew with.
00:30:47And then I know it's really beneficial
00:30:51to screen the movie for an audience
00:30:53and not be afraid of the voices
00:30:55because those voices,
00:30:56because at the end of the day,
00:30:57this film is made for an audience.
00:30:59Every film is, in my opinion,
00:31:01is made for an audience to enjoy or be challenged with
00:31:05or to be scared of,
00:31:10feel the emotion.
00:31:11And I like listening to those voices
00:31:15at a certain point in the process.
00:31:16I enjoy getting the data, as we say,
00:31:19of not just our co-collaborators,
00:31:23but in the test audiences or from the studio
00:31:26or from our producing partners, Mark Platt, et cetera.
00:31:30And then just take it all in.
00:31:32And some of that jives with what you had initially
00:31:36in your heart as far as what is working,
00:31:38what isn't working in the scene.
00:31:39And then some of it is completely different.
00:31:42And then you're like, well, should I listen to that or not?
00:31:44And again, what I love working with you
00:31:47is that we don't overreact by all the voices,
00:31:50but we take them in, we put them over the side,
00:31:52and then we say, we don't want to ignore them.
00:31:54We just say, okay, copy that.
00:31:56Let's do our thing for a little bit.
00:31:58And then let's start seeing if there's consensus
00:32:00in some of those notes and ideas and voices.
00:32:06But you also have been around enough.
00:32:07You have enough confidence enough
00:32:08to not necessarily listen to the voices
00:32:10if they may be not against your own instincts,
00:32:15which I really appreciate.
00:32:18Okay, so we're gonna put,
00:32:19what is this feeling to the side for a second?
00:32:22And we're gonna talk about the defying gravity clip.
00:32:28This is not good.
00:32:29This is not good, this is not good.
00:32:31Elfie, Elfie, calm down.
00:32:35You have got to let him explain.
00:32:36Over my dead body.
00:32:38This is everything you've dreamed of.
00:32:45Elphaba, this is so much bigger than us.
00:32:48Why can you stay calm for once
00:32:50instead of flying off the handle?
00:32:52I hope you're happy.
00:32:53I hope you're happy now.
00:32:55I hope you're happy how you've hurt your cause forever.
00:32:58I hope you think you're clever.
00:33:00I hope you're happy.
00:33:02I hope you're happy too.
00:33:03I hope you're proud how you would grovel in submission
00:33:07to feed your own ambition.
00:33:09I hope you're happy right now.
00:33:18Citizens of Oz,
00:33:20there is an enemy who must be found and captured.
00:33:26Believe nothing she says.
00:33:30She has stolen our grimmery.
00:33:33She has stolen our pride.
00:33:36She has stolen our grimmery.
00:33:39She is evil,
00:33:42responsible for the mutilation
00:33:44of these poor, innocent monkeys.
00:33:49Her green skin
00:33:52is but an outward manifestorium of her twisted nature.
00:33:59This distortion,
00:34:02this repulsion,
00:34:05this
00:34:08Wiccan wrench.
00:34:27Don't be afraid.
00:34:31I'm not afraid.
00:34:35It's the wizard who should be afraid of me.
00:34:37Hey.
00:34:40Nuffie, listen to me.
00:34:43Listen to me, just,
00:34:44just say you're sorry.
00:34:47You can still be with the wizard
00:34:52once you've worked and waited for.
00:34:57You can have all you ever wanted.
00:35:06I know.
00:35:09But I don't want it.
00:35:13No.
00:35:15I can't want it
00:35:20anymore.
00:35:21Anymore.
00:35:32Something has changed within me.
00:35:39Something is not the same.
00:35:44I'm through with playing by the rules of somebody else.
00:35:51Someone else's game.
00:35:55Too late for second guessing.
00:35:58Too late to go back to sleep.
00:36:04It's time to trust my instincts.
00:36:08Close my eyes.
00:36:14And leave.
00:36:17It's time to try
00:36:19defying gravity.
00:36:23I think I'll try defying gravity
00:36:29and you can't pull me down.
00:36:32Can't I make you understand
00:36:34you're having delusions of grandeur.
00:36:37I'm through accepting limits
00:36:41cause someone says they're so.
00:36:44Some things I cannot change.
00:36:46But till I try I'll never know.
00:36:50Too long I've been afraid of losing love.
00:36:54I guess I've lost.
00:36:57Well if that's love
00:36:58it comes at much too high a cost.
00:37:03I'd sooner avoid defying gravity.
00:37:09Kiss me good and I am defying gravity.
00:37:15And you can't pull me down.
00:37:26Elphie, what are you doing?
00:37:28Elphaba, please.
00:37:31Listen to me, stop.
00:37:36Not that hideous levitation sport, Elphaba, please.
00:37:39You don't know what you're doing with that, please.
00:37:41Stop.
00:37:42Stop.
00:37:43Stop.
00:37:44Stop.
00:37:52Well,
00:37:55where are your wings?
00:38:00Maybe you're not as powerful as you think you are.
00:38:14Sweet Oz.
00:38:44Five, four, three, two, one.
00:39:10Quickly, get on.
00:39:14What?
00:39:20Come with me.
00:39:21Think of what we could do together.
00:39:28Unlimited.
00:39:31Together we're unlimited.
00:39:36Together we'll be the greatest team
00:39:39there's ever been, Glinda.
00:39:43Dreams, the way we planned them.
00:39:46If we work in tandem,
00:39:50there's no fight we cannot win.
00:39:54Just you and I defying gravity.
00:40:02With you and I defying gravity.
00:40:08They'll never bring us down.
00:40:14Are you coming?
00:40:30I'll be a trampoline.
00:40:44Here.
00:40:57Put this around you.
00:41:43Come on.
00:42:00I hope you're happy
00:42:04now that you're choosing this.
00:42:07You too.
00:42:09I hope it brings you bliss.
00:42:12I really hope you get it
00:42:14and you don't live to regret it.
00:42:17I hope you're happy in the end.
00:42:24I hope you're happy,
00:42:28my friend.
00:42:29Friend.
00:42:41Get her.
00:42:42No, leave her alone.
00:42:44She hasn't done anything wrong.
00:42:45Get away from me.
00:42:46No, I'm coming out.
00:42:47Help me.
00:42:52Let go.
00:42:53Help me.
00:42:54I'm the one you want.
00:42:55Help yourself.
00:42:56I'm the one you want.
00:42:56It's me.
00:42:59It's me.
00:43:10What have you done this time?
00:43:18For my sake.
00:43:23Get away.
00:43:29Get away.
00:43:59Help me.
00:44:01Help me.
00:44:29Help me.
00:44:59Citizens of Mars,
00:45:01there is an enemy who must be found
00:45:05and captured.
00:45:08Believe nothing she says.
00:45:11She has stolen our remedy.
00:45:14Governor, help me.
00:45:15She is evil.
00:45:16Go, go.
00:45:30Her green skin
00:45:32is but an outward manifestorium
00:45:35of her twisted nature.
00:45:39This distortion,
00:45:42this repulsion,
00:45:45is God.
00:45:55Nobody, in all of us,
00:46:00no wizard that there is or was
00:46:04is ever gonna bring me down.
00:46:11I hope you're happy.
00:46:13Look at her.
00:46:14She's wicked.
00:46:16Kill her.
00:46:16Bring me down.
00:46:17No one likes the wicked.
00:46:19Bring me down.
00:46:21I'll set you free.
00:46:29Fuck.
00:46:59And when I see a number like this,
00:47:01this is not a number, actually.
00:47:03I think that was a realization
00:47:05from the very beginning that
00:47:07defying gravity, while it is the showstopper
00:47:11number in a musical,
00:47:13that in a movie, as the end part of the movie,
00:47:17that it needed to be as emotionally fulfilling
00:47:21and satisfying that our whole movie
00:47:23was geared to end up here.
00:47:25That it couldn't change.
00:47:26That it had to find its space
00:47:29to land every character that we needed to land.
00:47:32That's not just Elphaba.
00:47:33That's Glinda.
00:47:34Put her in the spot that she needs to be by the end.
00:47:36But also all the other characters
00:47:38that need to stay alive for the next movie.
00:47:41So all of these things,
00:47:43and she had to rise to the occasion
00:47:46and we had to have all those things
00:47:47and it had to have all the emotional things
00:47:49that you want at the end of a movie.
00:47:51And I think that's what it's all about.
00:47:53It's not just about the show.
00:47:55It's about the movie.
00:47:57How did you feel?
00:47:59Were you scared to take that on?
00:48:01To break apart Defying Gravity?
00:48:03What led you to each of those turns?
00:48:06And how much space,
00:48:08how did you figure out how much space to give?
00:48:12I know we had some of those discussions,
00:48:13but I'd love to hear from your perspective
00:48:16how you approached that.
00:48:19Well, you know, Defying Gravity was terrifying
00:48:21because if we knew we couldn't stick the landing
00:48:24on the end of this movie,
00:48:26then people are gonna say,
00:48:28why didn't you make it two movies?
00:48:30And so we really needed to...
00:48:36First of all, I just wanna say when I read the script,
00:48:38Dana Fowlkes and Wendy Holtzman's script,
00:48:42the first time I read it, I was crying at the end.
00:48:44And so I just knew that whatever we did,
00:48:50we had to make it work emotionally.
00:48:53And it had to feel the way I was feeling
00:48:55when I was reading that script
00:48:57and listening to the music and reading those lyrics.
00:48:59And so I just knew that whatever we did in the edit,
00:49:05I had to match the emotions.
00:49:07But I love that when we started working on In the Heights,
00:49:13that we would stop and start song.
00:49:15So I knew that you were gonna do that again,
00:49:18but I didn't know to what extent you were gonna do it.
00:49:21And so that's both really an intriguing challenge
00:49:25and also terrifying again,
00:49:27because you know that this is one of the most beloved songs
00:49:32in the history of Broadway.
00:49:34And the audience has an expectation
00:49:38about how a song should work
00:49:41and whether or not you can break up something
00:49:43again and again and again.
00:49:44I think we do it like three or four times.
00:49:46And you know that if you don't keep the audience
00:49:53tight in your grip,
00:49:54then they're gonna start to turn on you.
00:50:00And that's with anything you cut in any film,
00:50:02but especially in something like a song
00:50:06where you have certain expectations
00:50:07as far as how we're breaking things up.
00:50:11That said, I love the different beats in the entire song.
00:50:17Having the girls, having Glinda and Elphaba just escape
00:50:24on this big mammoth balloon and monkey chase.
00:50:28And then they're in this attic
00:50:31and then they start fighting with each other.
00:50:33And you know, at that moment, it's like,
00:50:36oh, okay, game on.
00:50:38This is where the song starts.
00:50:39And then Morrible interrupts us.
00:50:43And we hold on Elphaba during this speech
00:50:47where she's basically saying, you know, she's a monster.
00:50:50She's the wicked witch, you know.
00:50:54And then power and strength starts to build
00:50:58out of Cynthia's incredible performance
00:51:01and just staying on her and just being really bold
00:51:04about how we're picking the performance
00:51:06and not overcutting and just feeling that build.
00:51:11And then she starts to climb the stairs.
00:51:14And then we stop again for this moment
00:51:18with the guards interrupting
00:51:23and her trying to cast a spell.
00:51:27Then we realize that she's bewitched this broom.
00:51:32And then we don't really realize at this moment
00:51:36that we are actually completing the origin story
00:51:40of the Wicked Witch of the West.
00:51:42In the middle of the song,
00:51:43we are connecting Cynthia Elphaba emotionally
00:51:49to what's happening to her,
00:51:52but also completing this moment with her
00:51:55as the wicked witch.
00:51:56We put on the hat, you know, we put on the cape.
00:52:01We do these really beautiful quiet moments
00:52:03with Elphaba and Glinda when she says,
00:52:08are you going, are you coming?
00:52:11And I just love building the emotion,
00:52:14completing this moment.
00:52:16And then we have a third moment
00:52:18with the song starting out again
00:52:22when she jumps out of the window
00:52:25and she sees her younger self
00:52:28and then we finish the song.
00:52:29And so all this to say that there's a lot of beats
00:52:33that we're covering over the edit
00:52:37where if we don't, again, hold the audience tight,
00:52:40we'll lose them.
00:52:42Yeah.
00:52:43The choice when you talked about Morrible
00:52:45making the speech about the Wicked Witch
00:52:47and for all purposes,
00:52:50you would expect to be on Morrible during that speech
00:52:54because this is the moment she coins the term Wicked Witch.
00:52:59And yet you, even in the assembly,
00:53:02and there's a lot, you know,
00:53:03sometimes when you see an assembly,
00:53:05it can be very different from your vision and my vision
00:53:07and we try to find our way together.
00:53:09But there's so much in this
00:53:11that was from that original assembly.
00:53:14And that often happens actually on our movies
00:53:17that we work together,
00:53:18which just makes my life a lot easier.
00:53:20But the moment, the decision to stay with Elphaba
00:53:25and we had some debate of whether we go to Madame Morrible
00:53:29when she says Wicked Witch,
00:53:32but I think it's pretty bold that you stayed on Elphaba.
00:53:36I love those kind of little decisions.
00:53:39That was actually one of the rarer times
00:53:40I was actually on set while you're shooting that take.
00:53:43And I remember just watching her face
00:53:46and just like, oh my God, you know,
00:53:48just taking it all, I'm getting goosebumps about it now.
00:53:51And, you know, of course, Michelle's killing it,
00:53:53you know, on another set, you know,
00:53:55when she's doing her performances,
00:53:57all these great angles and stuff with the microphone
00:54:02and the big sort of speaker system.
00:54:04And I loved all that footage,
00:54:05but man, when you just see Cynthia's performance
00:54:08and how she's being affected by what's being said,
00:54:11you're just like, I gotta be bold with this.
00:54:14And the same thing with upstairs
00:54:16when they're saying goodbye to each other,
00:54:20you know, just being really bold in those quiet moments,
00:54:22you know, holding on faces.
00:54:24There's so much of the edit of the entire movie
00:54:28is holding on people's faces,
00:54:28all about the looks and the glances and the quiet moments,
00:54:31you know, everything from the Ozdust ballroom
00:54:34to the end of the film is about the looks
00:54:36and about the quiet moments and about the space.
00:54:38And being really bold in the edit is terrifying,
00:54:41especially on a film where it could be, you know,
00:54:44the studio, of course, you know,
00:54:45would love for the film to be an hour and a half.
00:54:48And so you're like, well,
00:54:50the film just isn't gonna feel as emotionally satisfying
00:54:53if you don't stretch these moments,
00:54:55if you don't make the audience work for it,
00:54:58if you don't build emotionally time and time again,
00:55:04it's just not gonna mean anything.
00:55:07I think on the Ozdust and all that silence,
00:55:10how many notes we got of like, too much silence,
00:55:12too much silence.
00:55:13And you would fight and you would say,
00:55:15that's the whole point.
00:55:16You gotta feel uncomfortable.
00:55:17And we stayed with that.
00:55:19And as we showed audiences, they stuck with us
00:55:22because in silence, the audience has control.
00:55:25If one person laughs, if one person makes some comment,
00:55:28then the whole audience turns as well.
00:55:31And so you're trusting that the storytelling
00:55:33is holding them.
00:55:34So I love that a lot.
00:55:36When you come to the end of Defying Gravity,
00:55:41I know we had a lot of debates.
00:55:42When are you on her face?
00:55:44Because those words are very powerful.
00:55:46And when are you at the scope of flying around?
00:55:49And it's hard to even know what shots we have
00:55:51because she's on a rig, on blue screen.
00:55:55There is a set, but you can put the set anywhere, really.
00:55:58And how do you piece it together in your mind of,
00:56:04A, when's the close-up, when's the wide?
00:56:08When do you go rogue and go all CG and go super wide?
00:56:12And how can you track that?
00:56:15Or is it just a guessing game in your head?
00:56:18I mean, it is a lot of experimentation.
00:56:20It's a lot of guessing.
00:56:20I think it's having the VFX department
00:56:26right outside my door to say,
00:56:29hey, I want to-
00:56:30Right, because they're in the same office as us.
00:56:31Yeah.
00:56:32So we have a great-
00:56:33Right now as well.
00:56:34We have a great compound where I have VFX,
00:56:37music editorial, I have sound design.
00:56:41We're all here embedded together.
00:56:43And so I can go to any one of these departments
00:56:45and say, I need this or that.
00:56:47So if I say, hey, I'd like to try a wide
00:56:49in this section of the song,
00:56:52because I have a hunch about this is a good place to go at,
00:56:55then they can sort of comp something together
00:56:57using the plates of Cynthia actually singing
00:57:00and then throw her into a giant wide, a CG wide.
00:57:04But there was a lot of experimentation, of course.
00:57:06I don't always know, of course, about where the edit.
00:57:10So much about editing is instinctual as far as like,
00:57:13okay, we can break out to a nice, incredible wide moment.
00:57:16It's also like,
00:57:17what do I think the audience needs emotionally?
00:57:19Where is it like we can sort of make them
00:57:22sort of feel an awe in this moment
00:57:24when she's doing the loop-de-loop, go out wide,
00:57:27or when she challenging the guards
00:57:29and she's like, she's kind of this little speck,
00:57:31but man, she is mighty sitting there
00:57:35intimidating everybody.
00:57:37Or when do I need to be on Cynthia's face?
00:57:40Because there's so much joy at that moment
00:57:42of like feeling that power
00:57:43and nothing's going to stop her.
00:57:46When do I need to like harness that moment and be with her?
00:57:50And she's giving you different performances.
00:57:51Sometimes it's joy.
00:57:53Sometimes it's sadness.
00:57:54Sometimes, you know, it's conflicted.
00:57:56And so I think people don't realize
00:57:59that it's not like she did the same performance every time.
00:58:01Like she's doing different things
00:58:02and you could ruin her performance
00:58:05if you choose the wrong things.
00:58:08But what I love about Cynthia and Ari
00:58:10is that they are giving me a full meal
00:58:13full of different options.
00:58:16It is all great.
00:58:17It's an amazing performance.
00:58:19I mean, they are, you know, two amazing artists.
00:58:24The best I've ever worked with as far as, you know,
00:58:26cutting, I think you would agree.
00:58:27But I, it's just, you know,
00:58:31it's like dealer's choice as far as like,
00:58:33what is like, what are we trying to say?
00:58:35Do we want her angry here?
00:58:36Do we want her intimidating?
00:58:38Do we want her sad?
00:58:39You know, and just, you know, experimenting a lot
00:58:43as far as like, what is it that we're trying to say here
00:58:46as far as like where this character is
00:58:49and how do we want to leave the audience?
00:58:51And building into, you know, some heartache, you know,
00:58:57between Glinda and Elphaba,
00:58:59even that, you know, that quiet moment with Unlimited,
00:59:01you know, she's so introspective, you know, at that moment
00:59:04and using that real estate to then, you know,
00:59:08go around the horn as far as like all our other characters,
00:59:11you know, about to leave them
00:59:12and then building up yet again
00:59:14to this big Empire Strikes Back climax, you know,
00:59:18Back to the Future climax.
00:59:20We're like, what are other films
00:59:21that made us feel this way, you know,
00:59:23at the ends of their movies?
00:59:25And, but again, you know,
00:59:28having this quiet moment with Unlimited
00:59:31and then where she kind of seems at peace, Elphaba,
00:59:37and then she comes back roaring
00:59:39just with a sort of like anger and power
00:59:42and like, no one's going to stop me.
00:59:46Anyways, it's just a lot to choose from and play with,
00:59:49but a lot of it is experimentation, the edit,
00:59:52and a lot of it is with, you know, the gut
00:59:54and talking with you and getting the data
00:59:56and, you know, just keeping at it.
00:59:59But it's interesting because, you know,
01:00:00old school editors, and I've worked with others before,
01:00:06you know, there's different types of your mentality
01:00:09of how much you're bringing in,
01:00:11some editors just don't have any music when they're editing.
01:00:14They're just like cutting the scene,
01:00:16which we do at a certain point as well.
01:00:18But what I love is that you are considering everything,
01:00:21the sound effects, the foley even, the music,
01:00:25and how it's all going to, you know,
01:00:28you're a conductor of how it's all going
01:00:30to tell story with it.
01:00:33At the end, that big, like you said, the send-off,
01:00:36which, you know, every time we've watched it
01:00:38with an audience, they go crazy.
01:00:39Very few movies have the opportunity
01:00:42to send people on and off on an ascension
01:00:45because that's not a normal thing for a movie.
01:00:47But we were gifted with this, both problem
01:00:49and if we figured it out, a solution to everything
01:00:52that you could send the audience off on this.
01:00:56Maybe a few movies that I've seen audiences
01:00:58cheer at the end of,
01:01:03remember the Titans is one of them that I remember.
01:01:04Like I remember that audience,
01:01:06they score at the end or something.
01:01:07Everyone just got up and I couldn't believe that.
01:01:10But you did this ending in the assembly
01:01:13before I ever even showed up in the edit room.
01:01:16And I remember feeling what I knew the audience
01:01:18was going to feel at that time.
01:01:19It may not have been refined yet, but it was there.
01:01:22How did you start?
01:01:23Why and how did you start that?
01:01:25Because most people would end on
01:01:29black, but you did not.
01:01:32Okay, so of course I could end on the war cry.
01:01:37Okay, the war cry is incredible.
01:01:40I just felt like there was something in my gut
01:01:42that was saying that we needed one more moment
01:01:48to send her off into the unknown.
01:01:52And I don't know what it is.
01:01:54I think it was maybe that sort of ending
01:01:56of Empire Strikes Back of like,
01:01:58are they going to find Han Solo
01:02:00and the Millennium Falcon going somewhere?
01:02:02I don't know what it was.
01:02:03I can't remember all the images.
01:02:04There was something that was telling me
01:02:05that we just needed one more beat.
01:02:07So I asked, I went up to Jack and Catherine.
01:02:11I said, can we construct musically just one more go round?
01:02:18And I literally, I kid you not said to him,
01:02:21can we try the 2001 timpanis
01:02:24and try to use the musical stems from the Broadway show
01:02:27or whatever we have instrumental wise
01:02:30and then repeat down?
01:02:33And he was like, I'll give it a shot.
01:02:35And little did I know,
01:02:37I'll just say like how other films sort of go in your head.
01:02:40I was watching E.T. a couple of months ago
01:02:44and John Williams does those same timpani hits at the end.
01:02:47I had no idea that that's how they ended E.T.
01:02:52I just didn't remember that.
01:02:53And anyways, Jack put it together.
01:02:57And so now I had this extra real estate
01:02:59to then send off Elphaba.
01:03:03And there was just something
01:03:05about giving us one more moment.
01:03:07I know it's controversial because it's like,
01:03:10of course, why wouldn't you end the film on the war cry?
01:03:12But there's just something else that's just like,
01:03:13no, we just have a little bit more juice.
01:03:16I'm telling you, I know we've stretched this song
01:03:20to infinity and back.
01:03:21And I know it's like, come on, when's this ending?
01:03:23It's like, if we could just give them one more moment,
01:03:25one more supersonic speed send off right there,
01:03:30then that's gonna be even cooler.
01:03:33Well, that's the thing.
01:03:34It feels like cinema when you take your time
01:03:36on the big moments.
01:03:37That's what movies used to do.
01:03:39It didn't rush through them.
01:03:40I mean, you talk about E.T., you look at that ending.
01:03:42That spaceship takes 10 minutes to freaking leave,
01:03:45but that's why we remember it
01:03:46because John Williams has room to do it.
01:03:49The amount of times we cut back from Elliot with the wind
01:03:52to the spaceship taking off.
01:03:54I mean, it's many, many times.
01:03:56And maybe executives at that time
01:03:59and maybe executives at that point were being like,
01:04:01can we just end the movie?
01:04:03And Spielberg was like, no, screw it.
01:04:05We're doing this thing.
01:04:07That's what I felt like when we were fighting
01:04:09for that kind of ending.
01:04:13People paid money to sit here
01:04:15and don't rush them out the door.
01:04:18Let them be in this feeling for as long as we can be
01:04:22and then send them out on an explosion.
01:04:25And I love that, that you have that instinct
01:04:27at every turn of choosing the cinematic version of it.
01:04:30You always choose the cinematic
01:04:32because you are a lover of movies.
01:04:34I'm a lover of movies.
01:04:35I'm a lover of those type of movies,
01:04:37not just Spielberg and Lucas,
01:04:40but films like Gone with the Wind or Wizard of Oz
01:04:44or From Here to Eternity,
01:04:46just big epic films that are in the archives of the Academy.
01:04:52I just feel like to bring the audience back to Oz
01:04:59and to give them, like you said, what they paid for.
01:05:02I have a lot of respect for big, giant blockbuster movies,
01:05:06but also just, I mean, how many times do you get
01:05:09to visit Oz and then, sure, I can end the movie
01:05:12and I don't need this scene or that scene
01:05:14or the song and the space or whatever,
01:05:15but it's like, yeah, you're spending 10, 15, 20,
01:05:1925, $30 on a ticket.
01:05:21Let's give them what their money's worth.
01:05:24And hopefully the audience will repay us in kind
01:05:28by receiving what we delivered.
01:05:30And those are the type of things
01:05:32that keep as core memories in people.
01:05:35When I think about movies that I loved,
01:05:37it's the movies that a full audience was in there with me.
01:05:41Of course, I have other movies that have other moments
01:05:43in smaller settings of that,
01:05:45but it's the movies that I love the most.
01:05:48But the ones that really inspired me,
01:05:50the ones that made me dream bigger than ever,
01:05:53the things that in no other medium can exist,
01:05:56that you would not spend that money on a YouTube video,
01:05:59that you would not spend that money on something
01:06:00like that we stretched, that human hands have made
01:06:04and built what not 100 people can make,
01:06:07but what 1,000 human beings can make.
01:06:10Like that's, I think, the destination
01:06:12that movies have always, as tradition, been a part of
01:06:16when they're making Cleopatra or Lawrence of Arabia,
01:06:20that it is evidence of what we're building.
01:06:22It's architecture in movement, and that lives forever.
01:06:27And they do when it is as extraordinary as that.
01:06:30So the opportunity, and you don't always,
01:06:32we don't always get the opportunity to do that,
01:06:33especially these days when we get the opportunity
01:06:36to round up a crew of rebels and troublemakers
01:06:39and build and try things.
01:06:41And I think it's a responsibility of all of us
01:06:44to deliver that kind of thing,
01:06:47because people don't get that opportunity.
01:06:49And I'm really glad that the audience,
01:06:52when they do receive that, you can just feel it.
01:06:57And now social media, you can really feel it.
01:07:03When you look at what this has done now,
01:07:06and people finding little scenes and little moments,
01:07:09well, how does that make you feel, and what do you think?
01:07:13Well, of course, I love it.
01:07:14I love how everyone, when you,
01:07:19I see myself as a co-parent with you,
01:07:22and we raised this baby together.
01:07:24We're sitting there, it took two years to make part one.
01:07:29And we nurtured this baby into existence
01:07:35and gave it as many things to go out into the world.
01:07:39And then it goes out of the world,
01:07:40and then the world takes it.
01:07:41And you have to let go,
01:07:43and let the world just embrace it, feel the joy,
01:07:50remake things with that, make their own videos,
01:07:53make their own think pieces, do their own choreography.
01:07:57And I just love that.
01:07:58That is the greatest compliment in the world,
01:08:00when people receive it, and they analyze every choice
01:08:04and every moment and every shot and every edit.
01:08:07It's terrifying to be under such a microscope.
01:08:10But when you feel like you've done,
01:08:12I think it's the best work I've ever done.
01:08:16And I'm like, okay, yeah, now it's yours,
01:08:19and you can do whatever you want to do it,
01:08:20and you can hug it and love it and scrutinize it.
01:08:23And I just, I love that aspect to it.
01:08:27I love, I really love the audience having this thing
01:08:34in their lives that they then get to make their own.
01:08:38I love that when I was a kid,
01:08:42seeing E.T. or Star Wars for the first time,
01:08:47and I felt like it was mine.
01:08:48So anyways, I just really, I'm just really proud of it,
01:08:54and I'm so happy the way the world has received it.