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00:00 (cash register rings)
00:03 - Hello, and thanks for tuning in.
00:04 Today on "The Process" we have a pair responsible
00:06 for each of the John Wick films to date,
00:08 including "Chapter Four,"
00:10 director and producer Chad Stahelski,
00:12 and supervising sound editor Mark Steckinger.
00:15 (upbeat music)
00:17 - Hello, and welcome to "The Process."
00:22 I'm Chad Stahelski,
00:23 the director and producer of "John Wick Chapter Four."
00:25 I'm here today with Mark Steckinger,
00:27 our supervising sound editor from the "John Wick" film series.
00:31 Mark, how are you?
00:32 Thanks for talking.
00:33 - Doing good, thanks.
00:36 Thanks for taking the time, really appreciate it.
00:38 - No worries.
00:39 Mark was my chief sound editor,
00:41 and let's just say that the sound of "John Wick,"
00:45 since our first "John Wick" through "Chapter Two,"
00:47 "Chapter Three," "Pellebellum," and now "Chapter Four."
00:51 That's a long time, Mark.
00:52 - It's a long time.
00:54 You know, actually I had a question,
00:55 'cause if I remember correctly,
00:56 in "John Wick One," you weren't on the final mix.
00:58 You were off doing another job.
01:00 - Yeah, I came before,
01:01 right up until the very, very final one.
01:03 But I was in South Africa,
01:05 and we finally wrapped that thing,
01:06 'cause we had run out of money several times in post.
01:09 (laughing)
01:10 - Yeah, I seem to remember that.
01:11 - And Dave and I were traveling around the world
01:13 trying to make a little bit of coin to finish the movie.
01:16 - Yeah, I know, that was awesome.
01:18 You know, we really never had an opportunity
01:20 to ask some of the questions
01:21 about what are some of the things on film sound,
01:24 before we even got involved in "John Wick,"
01:25 that made you want to pay attention to?
01:28 You know, the whiteboard is famous,
01:30 but there's other things that might've involved sound, too.
01:33 - No, for a little background,
01:35 that was my part at the time, Dave Leitch and I,
01:38 it was our first film that we directed
01:41 from a first unit standpoint, our main unit standpoint.
01:44 We had been through filming processes many, many times
01:46 before in all our action design
01:47 and our action directing stuff,
01:49 but never all the way through post.
01:51 So, you know, it was going back to film school,
01:54 to a lot of the editing, the sound editing,
01:56 the sound effects, of course,
01:58 did digital intermediate coloring,
02:00 a lot of the visual effects processes.
02:02 When we stepped into, I think it was Formosa the first time,
02:07 Formosa Sound Group, where Mark had his stage work going on.
02:11 We had met Mark and, well, actually through Michael Tinger,
02:14 I think, set us up.
02:15 And we knew at the time that,
02:18 having come from the Wachowski Film School from so much,
02:21 we really knew that we wanted to create
02:23 a kind of new, kind of like just a new take
02:26 on action film in general,
02:27 both from the color standpoint, the editing standpoint,
02:29 the action standpoint, the storytelling standpoint.
02:32 And of course, when we got deep into post,
02:35 we realized both with you and Tyler Bates, our composer,
02:38 we wanted a different sound to it.
02:39 We wanted the guns, we wanted everything to sound
02:42 and feel a little bit more, not just artistic,
02:44 but a little bigger throughout the theater.
02:47 So we kind of went to sound school for a little bit.
02:49 And I think that was our first couple of weeks with you,
02:50 was we didn't even know it was capable at the time.
02:54 So I don't know if you remember the first couple of sessions,
02:56 it was all questions from us going,
02:57 hey, can you make this louder?
02:58 Can you make this thing?
02:59 Can you bring out the train overpass?
03:01 Can you clean things up?
03:02 We didn't even know the range of the possibilities in sound.
03:06 So once we heard what was capable,
03:08 then it was a toy store.
03:10 Then it was like, okay,
03:11 let's do everything bigger and better.
03:13 - Right, then you can have so much fun
03:14 with so many different things.
03:15 And typically in films, guns tend to be underplayed
03:18 for a multitude of reasons,
03:19 but in Wick, that wasn't the idea.
03:21 It was really to give it a real visceral feeling.
03:25 - Well, also we realized the importance of the mix.
03:28 I don't think most people understand
03:30 how delicate the mix is.
03:32 I mean, there's big budget films that come out today
03:34 where you can barely understand the dialogue
03:36 'cause it's buried so much through music or sound.
03:39 Like everything becomes layered
03:40 to the point that you can't separate.
03:42 So I think it's very important.
03:44 What I learned from you was to have,
03:46 or the benefit of so many different layers of sound
03:49 to make the movie feel bigger and stronger,
03:51 but yet at the same time,
03:52 being able to differentiate between music,
03:54 sound design, sound effects, atmospheric, dialogue,
03:58 and how to really play with that.
04:00 So that was a big thing that hopefully,
04:02 as you watch all the Wicks, you see,
04:03 we got better, we listened to you more.
04:06 - Well, I don't know.
04:08 We listened to you more too
04:09 'cause I think as time went on,
04:11 the way that you embrace certain aspects
04:14 with the soundtrack could do
04:15 just inspired everybody to do their craft,
04:19 their specific contribution in a more effective way.
04:22 Fortunately, the team,
04:25 there's people that have worked on this
04:27 that you've probably never met.
04:29 Like there's Alan Rankin,
04:30 who's done all the gun design from Wick one
04:32 all the way through Wick four.
04:33 And even if some of us do it for temp tracks,
04:37 what have you, he always like,
04:38 "Okay, guys, just step aside.
04:40 Let me take this to the next level."
04:42 And is always learning new ways
04:44 to make it sonically more interesting along the way.
04:47 There's somebody else, Luke Gibleon,
04:50 who's a sound designer, who's also a martial artist.
04:53 I know that's important to Chad.
04:54 So he had a take on how those should play
04:57 and he's worked on all four Wicks all the way through
04:59 and has found a way to elevate
05:01 that aspect of the soundtrack.
05:03 And then we have Paul Cardin,
05:05 who's done all the ADR.
05:07 John famously doesn't have a lot of words,
05:08 but there's enough in the characters around him,
05:11 definitely do.
05:12 So the whole idea is just to make it
05:13 as cohesive as possible.
05:15 So there's been this collaborative team
05:17 with Andy Koyama, who's mixed all four of them,
05:20 who really understands what it takes to do what you say,
05:27 make the dialogue forefront what it needs to be,
05:31 but just really create something that's interesting
05:33 and always changing as the soundtrack evolves.
05:36 - So you want to kill him?
05:42 You want to kill him?
05:48 I want to kill him.
05:49 - What about you, Mr. Wick?
05:53 - I'm going to kill you.
05:54 - For better, of course, yeah.
05:58 But it looks like we have ourselves a genuine conundrum.
06:05 A quandary, if you will, a real life dilemma.
06:10 So, I thought we'd play a game.
06:17 One hand, the winner decides who lives and who does not.
06:22 - I think a lot of people,
06:28 maybe we can go over this a little bit.
06:29 This is a good, when I ever listen to these kind of talks
06:33 or conversations or videos or podcasts,
06:36 like it's great to talk about the good times and stuff,
06:41 but I don't think a lot of people
06:42 understand the actual process of sound.
06:45 It's not like we finished the movie and hand it to you.
06:47 It's a never ending cycle of,
06:50 you guys got to do a pass and I have to work out the music.
06:52 Nothing's ever hitting it,
06:54 like we try to cross many finish lines at the same time.
06:57 I mean, it's an interesting process
06:59 about how to layer stuff in
07:00 and how sometimes you have to adhere
07:02 to what the visuals are,
07:03 but a lot of times you've also can drive the visuals.
07:06 And having so much more experience
07:08 after the first three John Wick's,
07:10 now with four, like, you know, we're writing the script,
07:13 knowing we have a blind character,
07:14 we're writing the script,
07:15 knowing that we have all those gunfights in cars,
07:18 we're writing the script,
07:19 knowing we're going to have these cavernous locations
07:21 that we have to fill with atmospheric
07:23 and footsteps and all kinds of stuff.
07:25 Also knowing what we now, as we've talked about before,
07:28 it's knowing the problems that you will face
07:31 between the gunfire, the cars, dogs barking,
07:34 all the atmospheric and somehow putting music tracks in,
07:37 especially needle drops.
07:38 You know, how do we separate all that
07:41 and how, you know, back and forth it really is for you guys.
07:45 Also with the limitations, you know,
07:48 no one really, at least just like us, our first time,
07:51 no one goes into post going,
07:53 oh, let's give sound five months.
07:56 It's usually, hurry up, sound, do this
07:58 so we can get to the music,
07:59 but like, it's sometimes very overlooked.
08:02 But if you don't get the mix right,
08:04 and I think that's why a lot of shows
08:05 don't get the mix right
08:06 because they haven't done enough prep
08:08 and they haven't really thought it through
08:10 about all the layers of sound,
08:12 which is a huge part of a theatrical experience.
08:15 - Yeah, well, it's true because frequently too,
08:16 when you're putting the film, as you know,
08:18 you need a lot of sound,
08:20 but there's not enough time to do it
08:21 and there's not really the people on board to do it.
08:23 So some really big music tracks get put in
08:27 and sort of take the place
08:28 of what the sound ultimately should be.
08:30 I feel like we've never really had that challenge
08:33 in the Wix because we always knew where it was going.
08:35 We never let that get in the way.
08:36 - You and I do things a little bit,
08:37 we meet in pre-prep.
08:40 We have a lot of talks in pre-prep.
08:42 You're already making notes for that.
08:44 Well, just for the listeners out there,
08:45 like our immediate team,
08:46 like the ones I interact with are you, Andy, obviously,
08:50 Casey, my sound effects guy, my dialogue guy,
08:55 my background vocals, right?
08:58 I deal with the Foley stuff.
09:01 What else is there?
09:03 Obviously Andy, our mixer.
09:05 Those are the ones I see pretty regularly.
09:07 And then like you're mentioning,
09:09 I mean, there's a plethora of other people
09:10 I don't really get to meet
09:11 that get you the sound effects and the Foley work, right?
09:14 - Yeah, yeah, definitely a team sport all the way through.
09:17 And ultimately we lean so much
09:19 into what is recorded on set
09:21 where it's appropriate for the film.
09:23 And we've been fortunate on all four of the films
09:26 and this one in particular,
09:27 just to have some really nice recordings.
09:29 Manfred, who did the production sound of this movie,
09:31 really captured that well
09:33 because if you had to replace it through ADR,
09:35 it just wouldn't have the same performance,
09:37 it wouldn't have the same feel.
09:38 You know, there's a gritty reality ultimately
09:41 that's the basis for the soundtrack of the Wix.
09:43 And if you can't have that, you're really stuck.
09:46 We've done, and we, I'll say as the cumulative team,
09:50 have done a fair amount to make sure
09:52 that even challenged production location recordings,
09:55 thanks for shooting in the rain so much,
09:58 are able to live in the film.
09:59 - Well, maybe comment like, look,
10:02 I think the roughest ones I probably hand to you
10:05 because I like that, you know,
10:06 we're in an underground river in Paris
10:08 where the echo and the reverb is almost ridiculous.
10:12 Plus the sound of two motorboats,
10:14 the camera boat and the hero boat.
10:17 Then what was the other one?
10:18 You know, obviously the Arctic Triumph,
10:21 we have 200 cars revving and going and doing all that stuff.
10:24 But I think for dialogue, what was the other one?
10:25 Pretty much just anything in the rain, I guess.
10:27 - Yeah, anything in the rain.
10:29 I can think of three, but this one obviously
10:30 had the scene outside the destroyed continental with-
10:33 - Well, our dialogue inside the club, I think too, right?
10:35 With all our waterfalls.
10:36 - Yeah, it was pretty challenging.
10:38 It was challenging at times, but you know, the club evolved.
10:42 Tell you what, let's talk about the club a little bit
10:44 because that scene is a little different
10:47 from any of the Wix we've experienced before.
10:49 Not that we haven't had shootouts in rave parties,
10:52 but there was something about that scene
10:54 that it was so visually interesting
10:57 and it was so surreal at times
10:59 that it gave us all these really fun opportunities
11:01 to lean into the sound and do something
11:03 that was different.
11:04 B is not a little as we can, B commenting on the visuals
11:07 more than usual, taking sound out,
11:10 which is something we don't do all that often,
11:12 but really trying to find a way
11:14 to leave the experience with the sound.
11:17 And like I was even doing a quick little review
11:22 when John is beating on Killa and it goes into slow motion,
11:27 Kase and I stole the, what's the right name?
11:29 I'll call him Katana, but the hits
11:30 at the very beginning of the movie.
11:32 So it just hearkened back to that.
11:34 And those are some of the things
11:35 we had an opportunity to play with.
11:36 It was pretty awesome.
11:38 - I think that's what's, at least from my standpoint,
11:41 that's why I like doing the John Wick films in general.
11:45 They're like modern day fantasy things.
11:47 So in one film we can have tomahawks,
11:49 we have sword fights, we have dogs, we have cars,
11:52 every kind of firearm you can imagine
11:54 in these weird spacious places.
11:56 I've always enjoyed sci-fi or from "Star Wars"
11:59 to "Fantasy," to "Lord of the Rings,"
12:01 which gives you an opportunity,
12:03 whether they're creature vocals
12:04 or different types of creatures.
12:06 So you have dialogue inflections
12:08 and you have all different kinds
12:09 of sound effects you can put in.
12:10 Sword fights, creatures, avalanches, so on.
12:13 It just gives it a different texture, right?
12:16 - Yeah, totally.
12:18 - I mean, I don't think people understand
12:20 just to get a good sounding movie,
12:21 even if it's a romantic comedy or a grounded thriller,
12:24 is a lot of work in general to bring out the suspense
12:27 and the thrills, especially with horror.
12:28 Everyone's got their own challenge.
12:30 But at least for myself,
12:32 and maybe you can comment on what it is for you
12:34 with action films, I find that
12:36 they have a plethora of challenges, right?
12:40 It's both separation, enhancing the movie sounds,
12:44 the actual dialogue and the actual real world
12:46 what's happening.
12:47 But then I like what I call the fantasy sounds, right?
12:50 Sword fighting, creatures, all this stuff.
12:52 Like what is dragon's breath?
12:54 What do shotguns sound like?
12:56 So you get to do, hopefully,
12:57 you get a little creative flex there, right?
13:01 - Get a lot of it.
13:02 Well, I mean, ultimately it's, well, there's one thing.
13:05 What does the sound really sound like?
13:07 And the most important thing,
13:08 what do you want it to sound like?
13:10 And so you make it the way you want it to sound like
13:12 for the dramatic purposes of the film.
13:14 And every film, particularly this one,
13:16 is just loaded with those opportunities.
13:18 And that's actually the fun,
13:21 because there's a constant challenge, really,
13:23 of what's gonna be unique and different.
13:26 Sound folks are always playing
13:27 with different frequency ranges.
13:29 So things either have an impact
13:30 or they have some kind of duration to them
13:34 that puts them in the scene a little bit more.
13:36 That can come from like reverb and spaces and what have you.
13:39 But ultimately it's detail.
13:41 I mean, we know that there's so much detail visually
13:43 that happens with a lot of other departments,
13:45 but there's a lot of that happens sonically too.
13:48 And it helps bring out that visual details,
13:51 this ultimate symbiotic relationship at times
13:53 that you just wanna lean into
13:55 and just make the most of.
13:56 - 12 or nine?
14:07 - Nine.
14:09 [gunshots]
14:13 [grunting]
14:15 [grunting]
14:17 - Six and six.
14:44 - Six.
14:45 [gunshots]
14:47 - I think a lot of our visuals are done.
14:52 With Dan Lauston, the cinematographer,
14:55 hopefully people will watch the film
14:56 and realize how many colors we're trying to load
14:58 into each scene so you feel this natural depth.
15:00 Probably shoot anamorphic lessons.
15:02 That's why we shoot that.
15:03 And to your point, what I love what you guys do so well
15:07 is no matter what visual I throw at you
15:08 and how much, I guess, depth we try to give the visuals,
15:12 you're always trying to lay there
15:13 and not just compete,
15:15 but really, really enhance what we're doing.
15:17 So if that's a real term, I would say depth of sound.
15:20 Layers of sound, something to make us feel like
15:22 we're in a very, very sound-driven or saturated world
15:27 with the sound design.
15:29 So when you watch, you're subconsciously hearing the echoes,
15:33 the footsteps, the reverb, you're filling space for me.
15:36 And I think that's something I hadn't really realized
15:38 until I really started directing
15:39 was how much sound can affect.
15:42 Not even just in action,
15:43 'cause it's always a test for us.
15:45 After you guys do your pass, we'll go into editorial,
15:47 we'll actually turn down the volume.
15:49 And after we listen to the first pass,
15:50 you guys will turn down the volume and watch it again.
15:53 And no matter how cool we think our action is,
15:55 we'll watch and go, "Okay, that's kind of rough.
15:57 "We better put the sound back in."
15:58 (laughing)
15:59 Once you have the sound design,
16:01 you really hear the pace and the rhythm of the gunshots
16:03 and the punches and the kicks.
16:05 It just, it adds a whole another level
16:07 that kind of pumps you up.
16:08 And you have the ability to crescendo
16:11 with the sound for every scene.
16:13 - Exactly.
16:14 We were able to do that.
16:15 I mean, we have discussions where we're gonna play sound,
16:17 where we're not gonna play sound,
16:18 where it's gonna compete and not compete.
16:20 One of the best things is that editorially,
16:23 and Nathan Orloff on this film,
16:25 just kind of created a pace and a rhythm
16:27 that allowed sound to play really well
16:30 without ever being too consistent, if that makes sense.
16:33 - Yeah.
16:34 - You and I know.
16:35 - It's a broken rhythm feel.
16:35 I appreciate that a lot.
16:37 Look, whenever I try to conceptualize the films,
16:40 like people have heard me say many times,
16:43 I choreograph from a very musical background,
16:46 meaning I like musicals.
16:47 I like the dance rhythm.
16:49 The human on camera, people like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly,
16:53 they're starting the beat.
16:55 They're starting the rhythm
16:55 just with their natural dance motions.
16:57 We do that with Keanu and the martial arts stuff.
17:00 So I think, remember,
17:01 that's one of the first conversations we had is
17:03 we're gonna do these longer takes.
17:05 And if you listen to the gunshots that we had marked,
17:07 (imitates gunshots)
17:09 we're trying to create a rhythm with the gunshots
17:11 so it's not just action.
17:13 You guys did a great job of putting that in
17:15 so there is sustain on the right beat.
17:16 Yeah, we try to create a rhythm with that.
17:18 Now, if you lay in all the other great stuff
17:20 that's going on, it's like, you know,
17:21 listening to a good orchestration.
17:23 You know, there's layers and sounds.
17:25 And I think you guys have always been great
17:28 at finding the rhythm of a sequence.
17:30 The stairs, the stairs is a great example of the stair j.
17:32 There's always (imitates stairs)
17:35 There's always something great there.
17:36 - Right, exactly.
17:37 I've seen it with a lot of action like that
17:39 and it really never gets old
17:41 because it's got all these different rhythms
17:42 kind of baked into it, which is nice.
17:43 - Yeah, well I think you're also changing the impacts enough
17:47 so every time somebody hit the stairs
17:49 it was this different kind of thud.
17:51 - Oh, I know, it's crazy.
17:52 Yeah, give us some more surfaces to like ping bullets off of.
17:55 It's pretty crazy.
17:56 - Yeah, it was a lot.
17:56 - But you know, even when it's scenes
17:58 that don't have gunfire in them,
18:00 there is a definitely, you look for tonalities
18:03 that don't just sit there and linger
18:04 and try to find some,
18:06 you can call them special effects sounds as you know.
18:08 We can talk about the glass room.
18:11 We could talk about where the Winston and Schrone
18:13 first meet the Marquis.
18:15 And those are just a couple of little examples of,
18:17 okay, well, there's no gunfire.
18:18 Well, maybe one.
18:20 But it's got something that's sort of weird
18:24 and undulates that's almost musical.
18:26 And if you find those opportunities, do it.
18:28 Or when Cain and Hero have their fight,
18:32 there's all sorts of like kind of weird wind chimey things
18:36 or something like that,
18:37 that you can use as part of the scene
18:39 that keeps it not from being too stagnant.
18:42 Yeah, we see water features.
18:44 You don't wanna run water through that scene.
18:46 That's kind of a weird concept.
18:48 Or I mean, it's good where it's necessary,
18:50 but otherwise it's a little bit too much.
18:51 But you wanna find opportunities
18:53 just to kind of comment on it in that,
18:55 like that 3D sonic space.
18:57 Something you don't even see,
18:58 but you hear this part of it.
19:00 - Yeah, no, exactly.
19:01 We do that a lot for the people listening.
19:03 Like I always think,
19:05 especially now the last two job weeks,
19:07 three and four,
19:08 I turn down the,
19:09 I'll turn off the music track
19:10 after you guys have done a pass or two.
19:12 And you'll listen to the natural rhythm of the sound.
19:14 An example would be the Marquis office
19:16 right before he shoots your own.
19:17 You know, we had you put a ticking clock in there.
19:20 There's no clock in the room,
19:21 but I just like that.
19:22 (indistinct)
19:23 Or sometimes we'll put the heartbeat in.
19:25 We'll put that annoying (indistinct)
19:28 (laughing)
19:29 (indistinct)
19:30 To kind of paint a little bit more of a picture with sound.
19:34 I always think that's interesting, right?
19:36 Like if we're very lucky in John Wick
19:38 because it's kind of a hyper real fantasy world.
19:41 So we can kind of put off camera sounds
19:44 and we can kind of literally use sound design
19:46 as a musical rhythm to either totally change the scene
19:49 or to help augment the scene or add suspense
19:52 or kind of add that little subtext
19:54 of what we're trying to get across
19:56 in the scene with music.
19:59 Well, I'm sorry, with sound.
20:01 There's a lot of (indistinct)
20:03 I like for that.
20:04 No, and it's great too,
20:06 because Andy and Casey do such a great job
20:09 in mixing the film that it gives you the ability
20:11 to play all that, to hear all that, to experience all that
20:14 and really make it part of what drives the film,
20:17 drives the soundtrack.
20:19 And, you know, there's also those homages
20:22 to what the underscore of John Wick is all about.
20:25 The simple one is the very end, the duel.
20:28 It's a duel.
20:29 The whole film has a Western vibe to it.
20:32 It's a duel, it's high noon.
20:35 It might not be in the middle of a dusty street in Arizona,
20:38 but the whole idea, play it that way.
20:40 Make the guns blacked out or like something from 1870
20:43 and put in hawks and weird kind of winds
20:48 and things like that.
20:49 So that's what I mean for the audience out there.
20:50 You'll hear some spurs jangling,
20:52 you'll hear some leaves rustling, you'll hear some wind,
20:54 you'll hear a couple of caw-caws
20:56 with the birds in the background.
20:58 You guys did a pretty good Western job on that.
21:00 I think that was a note.
21:01 Make it Leone.
21:02 Make it a duel.
21:03 Make it Leone, yeah.
21:04 Or like the rooftop of the Osaka Continental.
21:07 It's like, there's like these moany distant motorcycles
21:10 that I remember one time it was like,
21:12 well, is that in the music?
21:13 Was that in the sound?
21:14 We need more of that,
21:15 but where do we find it to make more of it?
21:18 It was just something that was creative,
21:21 made the scene a little bit off-putting
21:23 'cause you sort of knew where the story was gonna go
21:25 a little bit at that point.
21:27 You can have fun with the sound.
21:28 Look, to anybody out there that's, you know,
21:31 working in the sound department
21:33 or making their own film or directing,
21:36 do a little bit, you know,
21:37 I would suggest doing a deep dive into your sound team.
21:41 Like get together, like a get together mark
21:42 and really see what they can do and play with it.
21:45 So many times I've seen sound rushed in post
21:49 where it's about getting it done
21:50 or cleaning something up or fixing things.
21:52 It's so much, it's such a fascinating world.
21:55 And it's that one time where you have a pretty good control
22:00 over what you're hearing, right?
22:02 You have time, you have these great mixers,
22:04 you have the technical capabilities
22:05 of really enhancing your movie
22:07 in a very pure sense with sound.
22:09 And I think that's what's always fascinated me
22:11 about doing sound, you know?
22:13 - Well, doubling back on that a little bit,
22:15 what are any sound moments in films
22:18 prior to our time on John Wick that, I don't know.
22:22 - It's always, I come from the martial art
22:25 Western background.
22:26 So whether you're in a Wu-Ja film from Zhang Yimou
22:29 or Wong Kar-Wai or Yung Wu-Ping,
22:32 you know, and you're doing like Hero
22:33 or House of Flying Daggers or Crouching Tiger,
22:36 you know, the Chinese and the Japanese film communities
22:39 from like Kurosawa's films to Zatoichi to Harakiri
22:43 to any of the great samurai films,
22:45 they're building that emotional content
22:47 whether it's the water fountain or the dripping
22:50 or the pool or the waterfall, the wind or the chimes
22:53 or just the string ting of the guitar, anything like that.
22:58 That helps set up the pose to what they're doing.
23:01 It's a setup for the scene.
23:03 It's what you're supposed to be feeling
23:04 and what the characters are feeling.
23:05 I've always been fascinated by sound design
23:07 in those two genres, samurai and Western.
23:10 Like, you know, the old gunfight is very similar
23:12 to a samurai duel.
23:14 And it's always about tension and building up
23:17 and crescendoing to that emotional catharsis
23:18 of release and going.
23:20 And I was always fascinated by that.
23:22 But it was very linear in how I thought
23:24 until after John Wick 1 where you realize,
23:26 oh my God, we don't have to do it just in the action.
23:29 We can do, sound design can enhance everything.
23:32 To in the first movie, just the dog eating his cereal,
23:35 the little puppy, and you hear the bull,
23:37 the whole house is quiet.
23:38 So it's just lonely John eating his puppy
23:42 and it almost bonds the two together.
23:44 So sometimes what we also learned
23:45 is when you clear things out,
23:47 silence can be every bit as effective,
23:49 if not more effective than a simple sound effect
23:52 or at least it throws your mind
23:53 to what you're trying to say with sound.
23:55 You don't need plug and you don't need,
23:57 come here baby.
23:58 It can just be like, he looks up from his cereal,
24:00 sees the puppy really munching on his food
24:02 and you see John smile a little bit.
24:04 It's like endearing almost.
24:06 And that was all through sound.
24:08 - That's cool.
24:08 Yeah, sometimes the simplicity can be your friend
24:11 because then you can really pay attention
24:13 to what you want the audience to like feel or understand.
24:16 - It's a weird audio kind of almost like
24:19 if we are, you know, with lenses or visual,
24:21 we do like a rack focus, but sometimes that sound,
24:24 you can throw directional sound
24:26 and make the audience look a certain direction
24:28 or at least look for the source of the sound.
24:31 Again, sound can be a very, especially in theater,
24:33 you don't really get you watching your computer monitor
24:36 or watching like that,
24:37 but when you're in the theater
24:38 and you have that atmos sound,
24:39 you have that throwing of the sound,
24:42 that's when it's at its most powerful.
24:44 That's why, you know, I can't imagine editing sound
24:47 just in our little editorial booths.
24:48 Like I wanna see it in a theater with, you know,
24:51 atmos and stuff like that
24:52 'cause that's when sound really jumps out at you.
24:55 - Yeah, you need some airspace.
24:56 Sometimes those little details too are like,
24:59 using the arc as an example, it's on cobblestones.
25:01 So there's like that zippy sound
25:03 of a car going by on cobblestones.
25:05 It sounds dangerous, you know?
25:07 So we can make the most of the danger
25:09 'cause obviously he's dodging a bunch of cars,
25:12 some of which not that effectively.
25:14 And it's a nice little sound add.
25:17 And, you know, the one thing about the Wick films,
25:19 which is different than most other films I work on,
25:22 you know, typically a lot of mixing is about subtracting.
25:25 You want that clarity that we just talked about.
25:27 And you've got too much sound,
25:29 be it the music or obviously got the dialogue,
25:31 which you don't wanna get in the way of,
25:33 or, you know, somebody has gotten a little bit
25:36 too judicious with their sound ads.
25:38 And you're always kind of peeling that away
25:39 just to really focus where the story goes,
25:42 where the characters are.
25:43 But in John Wick, yes, you peel it away,
25:46 but ultimately there's so many opportunities
25:47 to add detail and texture.
25:51 A lot of it has to do with the fact that, you know,
25:54 gunshots and gun hits and fights
25:55 and all the rest are short little sounds.
25:58 But also when it's not short little sounds,
26:01 everything has a pitch shape to it.
26:03 So nothing lingers too long.
26:05 Nothing overstays its welcome.
26:06 So in the Wick films,
26:07 it seems like you're always adding more and more and more.
26:10 I mean, you've got the visual details,
26:12 but even in scenes that don't really,
26:13 that's not inherent to the scene,
26:15 you can still just add a lot of detail.
26:17 And of course, visual effects wise,
26:19 you have a lot of detail.
26:20 So sound needs to follow, which is a fun opportunity.
26:25 - One of the biggest obstacles I realized,
26:27 and we talk about this all the time,
26:28 but I think it's super important to anybody out there
26:31 that really wants to dial in their sound stuff,
26:34 is the competition with sound.
26:37 Meaning music, sound design, what's actually on camera,
26:42 and of course, sound effects.
26:44 Meaning, you know, we found out very soon,
26:47 in most action movies you use,
26:48 like we always say, the rock and roll guitar music
26:50 over the action sequence.
26:51 And then when you have a '69 Mustang,
26:54 that's really (imitates engine revving)
26:56 and you got the guys trying to talk,
26:58 they all cancel each other out.
26:59 - Right.
27:00 - One of the great things you guys cracked
27:02 when we were doing the first one
27:03 that we've kind of lived by ever since is,
27:06 you know, I don't know if a lot of people know,
27:08 like the composer's over here in his own world,
27:10 surprisingly far away from my sound team.
27:15 And then I have my sound team way over here,
27:18 waiting for the music.
27:20 Then we have our poor little music editor
27:22 working for their sound editor,
27:23 trying to balance everything out.
27:25 And like, you know,
27:26 and it's hard to go back to the composer sometimes,
27:29 go, "Hey, I need you to change your key
27:30 'cause you're competing with a bunch of gunshots."
27:33 So, you know, now, because we've got our music team on board
27:37 and everything else, we know we're, you know,
27:40 if we're like in the low C range
27:41 with our cars and our gunshots,
27:43 we're gonna take the music up a little bit,
27:44 key it up and get our harmonies different than our melodies,
27:48 different than our bass tracks.
27:50 So not only can we add more stuff,
27:52 you can hear every little layer.
27:54 And that was a big learning experience for me
27:57 to really, in the design of sound,
28:00 in the design of musical composition,
28:02 in the design of what we're practically doing on stage,
28:05 to come up with a way in that prelim state
28:08 to separate the sounds.
28:10 - Well, yeah, as you said,
28:14 you gotta find a way to separate the sounds
28:15 and everybody's off in their own world.
28:17 And we've discovered before that electric guitars
28:19 and motorcycles have a very similar sound quality.
28:21 So, whoops. (laughs)
28:25 But, you know, just yet another challenge
28:27 to try to solve.
28:29 Yeah, but so much of the sound and the music
28:33 and everything that happens in the movie
28:34 is about orchestration of all the parts.
28:37 And, you know, again, hats off to Picture Editorial,
28:40 the way that you've written the scripts
28:43 to really concentrate on those aspects of the story
28:47 lend itself to a great picture edit,
28:50 which lends itself to the ability to put sound in
28:53 in a way that it doesn't overly compete.
28:55 And it's got moments that really play.
28:57 And, well, you've always said, lean on the sound design.
29:00 Let's start with that and see where we go from there.
29:03 And so, those are music,
29:06 best in music to my ears. (laughs)
29:09 - No, it's interesting.
29:10 Like, I've learned a lot, you know,
29:12 from everyone else out there, again.
29:14 You know, I think as you're designing,
29:16 you know, when you're directing
29:18 and when you're putting together the project,
29:20 you have, you know, what we always call a green light script.
29:22 We have a script that reads really well.
29:25 It's minimal descriptions, you get the dialogue,
29:28 you know, it's just, it kind of reads through.
29:29 It's always shorter, it makes the studio feel better
29:32 when you got a 90 to 110 page script.
29:34 Once we know we have the idea of the movie,
29:37 this is, I've been doing this ever since "John Wick 2",
29:41 is then after we get everything set and say,
29:42 is everybody happy?
29:43 Carol and I are happy with kind of
29:45 where the characterizations are going.
29:47 Now I go to work and I do like my department head pass,
29:50 you know, where the script magically blows up 20, 25 pages
29:53 because of all the descriptions we're putting in.
29:55 So, the department heads read, you know,
29:57 we're actually writing in and here's the ticking clock
30:00 and this is where we wanna hear the wind blow.
30:02 We'll actually put a lot of that in.
30:04 And it's not just for, you know,
30:06 if I was writing all that stuff for the wind or the sound,
30:08 it's not just for you.
30:09 It's so the other departments get it in their head.
30:12 So, my prop guy, my greens guy knows
30:15 to bring in some leaves.
30:16 They can start picturing, oh, it's a Western duel.
30:19 We should do this.
30:20 Maybe we'll bring it in.
30:21 And then Kevin, my production designer
30:23 is designing the wood flute for the water.
30:26 Like, you know, we try to put as much as we can on paper
30:28 for people to visualize and to anticipate
30:31 what we're trying to get across.
30:33 And I think that's always handy.
30:34 Obviously it's not the fix all end all,
30:36 but it does start painting the picture
30:37 of the movie we're trying to make.
30:39 'Cause we all know there's the creative process
30:41 of development.
30:42 And then as much as that sounds,
30:44 you hire the right people, you get to the right script.
30:46 Now it's time for this other thing called execution.
30:49 Or you actually have to make the movie.
30:52 And that only happens with at least great,
30:55 I wouldn't call it preparation,
30:56 but anticipation of what you will need
30:58 and where you want this to go.
30:59 And the sooner you get people on the same page with you,
31:02 both in the actual production of filming and in post,
31:06 again, that's why I like bringing Mark and his team in
31:09 very early on with the composers
31:10 before we even roll camera.
31:12 So we start anticipating what the movie wants to be.
31:15 Samurai movie meets duel meets, you know,
31:17 70s action movie with the cars and stuff.
31:19 So Mark's already going out there,
31:21 compiling the sounds, experimenting with guns.
31:23 So by the time he actually shows me something,
31:25 like he's got this literal catalog of gunshots
31:29 of bodies hitting of, you know,
31:31 if you get hit in the ribs at this side,
31:32 if you fall down the stairs this way,
31:34 it's always amazing to me.
31:35 The amount of prep that actually goes into sound.
31:38 - Well, you know, we're actually to do
31:39 with all that kind of prep is really come up
31:41 and make a lot of sounds that are unique to a particular,
31:45 one of the chapters of the film
31:47 and have them with the picture editors.
31:49 So as they cut the movie,
31:50 they are starting to put in the sounds that-
31:52 - We were already putting in,
31:53 we were ripping off your sound effects for number three
31:56 to 10 before, and it's already making the movie better.
32:00 So you're already kind of,
32:01 we're kind of leading you into where we want the film to go.
32:04 And that's been incredibly, I mean,
32:05 it's a big benefit that I have
32:07 that a lot of people won't have is,
32:09 I had three movies that I already liked
32:11 that we had done to rip off from,
32:13 to start prepping number four.
32:16 So that was kind of an unfair advantage,
32:18 but it really helped, I thought.
32:19 - Yeah, but it's nice to come up with those ideas throughout.
32:22 So it's this cohesive process
32:24 and it's not too sequential, it's simultaneous.
32:28 And that's always really, really beneficial.
32:30 And we've really benefited from that throughout the film.
32:33 - But here's an opportunity to ask.
32:34 So basically the very, the last duel, Western,
32:39 they're walking on Western street,
32:42 let's say that happens to be gravel.
32:43 There's no gravel in the front of Sarko Tour.
32:46 How did that idea come?
32:47 Because that's perfect and allows-
32:48 - Because I have a, it's very, very simple.
32:52 I've walked on enough gravel in my time
32:53 so that you actually hear your footsteps.
32:55 I couldn't, I wanted,
32:56 that was done solely for sound design
32:58 because they have a blind person.
33:00 Donnie Yen's like a blind swordsman.
33:02 So I want him to be able to count.
33:03 That's why you see those strips.
33:05 - Yeah.
33:06 - Those are counts of 10 paces.
33:07 We put those strips every 10 paces.
33:09 So we figure if Donnie could hear the crunch, crunch, crunch
33:11 he could count, but I wanted the audience
33:13 to actually count the steps.
33:15 So whether it was in a super wide
33:16 where it would have been weird to hear just heels hitting,
33:19 we decided to put on gravel.
33:21 So no matter what lens we were on,
33:23 you'd have that sound effect of crunch, crunch.
33:26 So you could actually count his 10 steps,
33:27 his 20 steps, his 30 steps.
33:29 - It's such an important sound for that scene.
33:31 And under normal circumstances,
33:33 that wouldn't have been there.
33:34 - Yeah, no, that was done solely like,
33:36 oh fuck, we got this guy and he's got to count steps.
33:39 Quick gravel.
33:40 - Quick gravel, I know.
33:42 Well, I know you've always been good about
33:44 how many gunshots, like, you know,
33:46 that it's only got 16 rounds.
33:49 So that's all they get before they have to reload.
33:52 - We literally have our guys,
33:53 both our prop or armor and our stun team
33:55 are constantly counting rounds.
33:57 - Right.
33:58 - Depends like some of the Glocks carry 16 to 17 rounds.
34:00 Some carry 21.
34:02 So we just, you know, we had a little leeway in there,
34:04 depending on what the bad guy's gun was at the end,
34:06 that we could count rounds.
34:08 But also it's how you throw it, right?
34:10 If he's pointing, you throw the sound away from the audience
34:14 other times you throw it directly in the audience,
34:16 but it's always hearing it.
34:17 I think you guys did a great job on the staircase with,
34:20 you know, we're hitting railings, we're hitting buildings,
34:21 like just all the ricochets and the hit.
34:24 Like we talked in the nunchuck fight
34:26 before we got to the nunchucks,
34:28 all the, we stole a lot of that from old Westerns
34:32 with the ricochets off the old big boulders and stuff.
34:35 And I thought that each kind of gunfight
34:37 that we had in the movie,
34:38 you guys put either a different ricochet
34:40 or a different impact sound and different totally.
34:42 So by the time we got to the stairs,
34:44 each sound sounded a little different.
34:46 I think that's very important
34:47 when you have so much action in the film.
34:49 - Well, and also taking that cue from the Western,
34:52 that a lot of the reverb
34:54 is not something you might hear in the street.
34:56 It's actually a can that you might hear
34:58 in Monument Valley with John Ford.
35:00 - Right, exactly.
35:01 - To play into that.
35:01 And those are all the little nerdy things
35:04 that we dive into,
35:04 but fortunately they make a nice track
35:07 at the end of the day.
35:08 - They make a nice--
35:09 - They don't bump people too much, you know?
35:11 - No, I think there's, we've always taught,
35:14 you know, we'll joke behind the scenes
35:15 that we're doing like, you know,
35:17 Bugs Bunny, John Wick style.
35:18 (laughing)
35:20 I think the goal on John Wick
35:22 is always to try to ground the emotionality of the film
35:24 and try to anchor it a little bit in reality,
35:26 and still have that little bit of fun.
35:28 And, you know, for anybody out there
35:31 that goes back and watch the movie,
35:32 I think you can tell we're having a little bit of fun
35:34 in post, like between the colors, all the graffiti,
35:38 and definitely the sound where we get our little,
35:40 you know, our little Buster Keaton moments
35:41 in with the sound design.
35:43 - Yeah, totally.
35:44 We have so much fun,
35:45 and that's actually, it opens up the ideas
35:48 to really try different things.
35:50 Well, if we went that extreme in that scene,
35:52 let's try something really extreme here too.
35:53 Why not?
35:54 - Yeah, I just--
35:55 - Let's not let up.
35:56 - I'm with you.
35:56 I think that's,
35:58 I think one thing we try to get with all the departments
36:01 is that, look, we're trying to keep the emotional theme
36:06 or the throughness of what we're trying to get across,
36:09 the anchor of what we're trying to do,
36:10 which is usually Keanu's performance,
36:13 and then have a little fun.
36:14 Like every scene should have that little sense of,
36:17 hey, we're making entertainment,
36:18 we're trying to have fun making something fun.
36:22 And I think we all have a love,
36:24 and we all love to geek out.
36:25 Like when we're in the digital intermediate,
36:28 and we're with Joe Budonovitz with coloring,
36:30 like we love to go into that realm of coloring.
36:32 When we were with Dan on set,
36:33 we'd love to go into that lighting thing.
36:35 When we're on the stunt guys,
36:36 we try to put in those little tidbits of nerdiness
36:38 that we all appreciate from our favorite films.
36:40 So to do the same thing in sound
36:42 and pull up the car from "Bullet,"
36:44 or to hit in trash cans like they do in "French Connection,"
36:47 to the sound design from "Zachary, Your Seventh Samurai,"
36:49 to go, you know, like the Kill Bill water clicker,
36:52 like there's so many things that we've gotten to pull from
36:54 that I really, really enjoy.
36:56 It's just another level of that nerd deep dive
37:01 into things we love.
37:03 - Yeah, no, that's for sure.
37:04 Also, because like the real things
37:07 don't always sound like you want them to sound like
37:09 in a movie, you mentioned "Kill Bill,"
37:11 did a whole recording session of,
37:13 I was working on "Last Samurai."
37:15 It was like, let's record a bunch of swords
37:16 because I had a friend who was doing "Kill Bill,"
37:18 we'll get this whole thing together,
37:19 we got a samurai sword expert,
37:22 came out and had this like water soaked mat
37:26 that he stood straight up and he hit it.
37:29 First of all, it sounded like a baseball bat.
37:32 Second of all, it looked like nothing happens,
37:34 we're all watching through the glass
37:35 and slowly it slid, the top of it slid off.
37:38 Like, well, that was a really cool visual,
37:40 but that's nothing like it's gonna sound like in a movie.
37:43 So let's do something different here.
37:45 And as we know, real swords don't sound
37:49 like they do in the movie.
37:50 - Yeah, yeah.
37:51 Fortunately, I haven't really experienced that
37:53 for firsthand, but nonetheless.
37:56 Or the dragon's breath, you know,
37:58 the dragon's breath in this was like,
38:00 you're excited to show me what this new idea was.
38:03 And so I looked it up on YouTube,
38:05 I'm like, huh, doesn't even sound like a good shotgun,
38:07 let alone something that's really cool.
38:08 - It sounds a little hollowy, right?
38:10 - Yeah, it's totally hollow.
38:12 Like, okay, no differentiation at all
38:14 from what a real shotgun would be.
38:16 - Well, that's interesting.
38:17 I think what we're trying to do, again,
38:19 for all our future sound editors
38:21 and design people out there,
38:23 like, the timing it takes, I think if you're on Pro Tools
38:26 and you really look at the timeline about those fractions,
38:30 that once you put the shotgun actual boom,
38:33 a little bit of the confidence echo
38:36 and the impact of the stunt guy,
38:38 they're almost right on top of each other,
38:40 if not slightly overlapping, right?
38:41 Because of the hair on frame.
38:43 So if you go back and watch all the dragon rest
38:46 or any of the gunfights on John Wick,
38:48 you can imagine what the Pro Tools timeline
38:50 start looking like.
38:52 - It looks crazy, yeah.
38:53 - When quadruple tapping, when you're saying,
38:55 you have to have impact and the actual firing of the weapon
38:59 and impact literally quadrupled almost on every guy,
39:04 you're trying so you can hear both.
39:05 So it's a swat, you get that impact as well.
39:07 And I think that's what gives it a lot of heart
39:09 is how detailed you guys get with that.
39:11 - Well, what I always show people
39:13 who are really new to this whole sound thing
39:14 is like, when you do that, the sound,
39:16 the first sound has, everything's cut off
39:19 before the second sound hits,
39:20 which is all cut off before the third sound hits.
39:23 So if you play them individually,
39:24 it's like, what the hell is that?
39:25 - I thought that was a lot of-
39:26 - It's kind of this cumulative note thing.
39:27 It's almost like making a player piano, you know?
39:29 - Right.
39:30 - Yeah, one key wouldn't do it.
39:31 But if you have them all together,
39:33 it's gonna make this event that you want.
39:35 - Yeah, I mean, I would suggest anybody out there
39:37 that's into filmmaking, go in and sit in on a sound session
39:40 and actually look over the shoulder and see how detailed
39:43 and how it actually looks like you're doing
39:45 with sheets of music.
39:46 That's what I'm always fascinated by
39:47 when I'm watching you guys work.
39:48 It is so much frustrating,
39:50 the sound design in a heavily action
39:52 or a heavily layered sequence.
39:54 We have so much competing with cause and effect
39:57 and reverb and ricochet and all the multiple layers.
40:00 It becomes very much a composition.
40:02 - Yeah, because unlike music, you can't just play it.
40:05 You know, you've got it one note at a time
40:08 and sometimes a couple notes at a time,
40:10 sometimes 30 notes at a time.
40:13 - So that's, it's quite fascinating actually.
40:15 - Yeah.
40:16 - You know?
40:17 - But it's fun.
40:18 When the end result plays like this film did,
40:20 it's really, really satisfying.
40:22 - I think that's, you know,
40:24 that was always a challenge on "John Wick 4" was,
40:27 okay, we know we're doing at least two and a half hour movie,
40:29 two hours and 38 minutes to be exact.
40:31 And how do you, with 14 action set pieces
40:35 and all the little things in between,
40:37 how do you keep the audience motivated?
40:39 And that's sometimes visually, sometimes auditorily,
40:42 sometimes with the thematics,
40:44 like you're constantly changing, going.
40:45 So it was a challenge really to all of us
40:48 to keep both interesting
40:49 and keep the pace driving for all the time.
40:52 And, you know, you realize the synergy
40:54 that every department has to have on that.
40:56 So again, it's a lot of a little,
40:57 it's everybody doing a little bit different,
41:00 a little bit better, a little bit more energy here,
41:02 a little bit more sounds here,
41:03 and actually working to really come together
41:05 to create something that in post has an effect
41:08 that individually we never could really see.
41:11 - Yeah, well, I mean, you're always pushing us,
41:13 pushing us to make it more interesting and make it better.
41:16 Thanks for that.
41:18 - Yeah, that's just me bitching and moaning
41:19 and trying to fix my moaning.
41:22 - I guess it's much appreciated
41:24 because there's no other way to do it.
41:26 - You know, and that's where,
41:27 I think it's experimentation,
41:29 it's having the freedom to try,
41:31 it's wanting to take big swings and fail miserably
41:33 and coming up with something
41:35 that not only supports the film, but enhances it.
41:38 And after four of them,
41:39 it's been a very welcome challenge.
41:43 Keep kind of reinventing ourselves
41:44 and doing better and better and better.
41:46 And that only comes through learning
41:47 and experimenting more and more and more,
41:49 failing and learning from the failures
41:51 to come up with something that's even better.
41:53 - Right.
41:54 - Thank you for all your time.
41:56 - Yeah.
41:57 - Thank you for all my failures.
41:59 - No, no, I'm trying to think of a line from the film
42:02 that kind of sums that up and it's like,
42:05 what is it, second chances or?
42:07 - The refuge of the men who fail.
42:09 - Exactly, yes.
42:10 - How about we go with how you do anything
42:12 is how you do everything.
42:14 - That's my favorite line.
42:15 I actually think they should almost take John Wick
42:17 as like a parenting example.
42:18 How to parent based on John Wick.
42:23 - I don't know if John Wick would be a great director.
42:24 Maybe, maybe he'd have the leadership qualities.
42:27 - Yeah.
42:28 - I'd hate to mess up for him.
42:29 - He might be a challenged parent,
42:31 but there's a lot of life hacks
42:33 that I think are extremely important and good to live by.
42:37 And they're good for us to creatively live by too.
42:38 In a way, we quote it all the time.
42:42 We embrace the mantra of those all the time ourselves.
42:46 So it's really good.
42:48 - I think he'd be proud of you guys for the world building.
42:50 I mean, I'm so proud of all my departments
42:52 for really adding something.
42:54 I mean, it's very, very hard just to come up with stuff.
42:56 As Bob would say, 50% of directing
43:00 is coming up with the crazy ideas
43:01 and the other 50% of directing is finding people crazier
43:04 than you to execute those ideas.
43:06 - Yeah.
43:07 - In that realm, I have some great department heads.
43:10 Of course, my sound department as well.
43:12 - Yeah, well, thank you for that.
43:14 I'll continually pass that on as we do all the time.
43:17 This has been great.
43:18 - There you go.
43:19 - One last thing I would say about John Wick,
43:22 it's just because there's been four of them.
43:24 And yes, we work in post-production,
43:26 but there's been enough gatherings.
43:28 Could be a premiere, it could be, I don't know,
43:30 stopping by the cutting room.
43:31 You get to meet so many people in other departments.
43:34 - Yeah.
43:35 - And you really get to understand
43:37 where they're coming from.
43:38 And you have this sort of family camaraderie,
43:40 which is pretty unique.
43:42 It doesn't, hasn't happened in any other film franchise
43:46 I've worked on.
43:46 So, really appreciate that and it shows.
43:49 And everybody's definitely rolling in the same direction.
43:52 - We came up a little old school
43:54 where like that was a big thing,
43:55 especially from the stunt world and the action world,
43:58 you have to have a little bit of bonding
43:59 and really know and trust the people you're working with.
44:02 And we've constantly found time after time again,
44:05 the more everybody's on the same page,
44:07 the more likely you're gonna get good stuff on that page.
44:10 If we all know the kind of movie we're working for
44:12 and you know the kind of creative leash you have on you,
44:17 you can really kind of spread your wings
44:19 and try some new stuff without fear of failure
44:21 or being yelled at or anything like that.
44:23 Like we want everybody to know what it is.
44:25 And again, smart people in a room,
44:27 if you listen to them, you're gonna get smart ideas.
44:30 You know, so like whether it's from each other
44:32 or whether you're talking to the cinematographer
44:34 or the production designer,
44:35 everybody's kind of building on each other's thoughts.
44:38 And that's always a fun atmosphere to be in.
44:41 - I can't imagine how you do it or any director does it
44:43 because everybody seems to be wanting to make their own film
44:46 and you've got to be at the clearing house
44:47 for all this input.
44:48 It's like, yes, no, yes, no, maybe, try later.
44:51 And you get overwhelmed by all that input.
44:55 - Oh, sometimes you are.
44:55 Sometimes that's where,
44:57 that's where you gotta be the little bit of the jerk.
45:00 - Yeah, for sure.
45:01 - In the end, not doing it.
45:03 - That's the director's bane.
45:05 - Yeah, I'll have time to ponder that
45:07 and deliberate it with you.
45:08 I just got to move on.
45:09 So.
45:10 - I just look at you and shake my head,
45:12 go, hmm, that's a good idea, Mark.
45:13 But yeah, I'll get back to you on that.
45:15 - Well, I mean, that is advantage of doing four of these
45:19 and making them better all the time
45:22 and really understanding is that we definitely
45:24 have a working vernacular that works pretty well.
45:27 - Well, I think when anybody has common interests,
45:28 that's what I got all our first meetings
45:30 and all the meetings with even our new department heads
45:32 that we pick up along the way or,
45:33 what do you love?
45:34 First question, any interviews,
45:36 what do you love, what movies do you watch?
45:38 And we just go down the rabbit hole
45:39 and get to get a sense of each other's flavor.
45:41 If you get a sense of taste and flavor
45:43 and what you're really into,
45:44 and like, that's all I need to connect,
45:46 that you love and you have passion for the job
45:49 and for the same things that are kind of my influences.
45:52 If you love that stuff, we're going to get along fine.
45:54 - Yeah, exactly.
45:56 Yeah, we sure have a lot of fun.
45:58 So.
45:59 - Same. - It's good.
46:01 - Well guys, thanks.
46:03 Mark Steckinger, Supervising Sound Editor
46:06 to all the John Wick films,
46:07 John Wick one, two, three, and four.
46:09 And I'm Chad Stahelski, the director of all four of those.
46:13 And you're on, you're listening to The Process.
46:16 So thank you so much.
46:17 - Yeah, thanks so much.
46:18 I've been really lucky to be able to do this.
46:20 Thank you.
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