What's the Major Cause of Political Instability in Pakistan?
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00:00So, Fawad sir, do you agree? Is there really something going on behind this, even now?
00:07Fawad Chohi sir?
00:09Look, I don't agree with Malik sir.
00:11I don't agree with him either.
00:13Look, Basim, the thing is, either you give Imran Khan a complete defeat.
00:19Imran Khan is not getting a complete defeat.
00:22It is true that the PTI could not make Bangladesh or bring about a revolution.
00:28But, on the other hand, Imran Khan is not getting a complete defeat.
00:31Actually, it is a very interesting thing if you look at it.
00:34The establishment, whatever policy they made, they finished the PTI.
00:40But, they sent Imran Khan to the skies.
00:43So, actually, the one with whom there was no fight, they slaughtered him.
00:48And, the one with whom there were complaints, they made the fight more important.
00:53So, if you are advising the establishment at this time,
00:56then, actually, there has been a lot of defeat.
00:59I would say that whatever policy was being made or was being done,
01:03Imran Khan did not suffer any loss.
01:05The party suffered a loss.
01:06And, at this time, if Imran Khan is in jail,
01:09then, it is obvious that his politics are not making any difference.
01:14The problem at this time, the negotiations that are taking place,
01:18that is why it is important.
01:20In the next, let's say, next 40 days,
01:22the biggest thing will be whether international pressure comes or not.
01:27If international pressure comes,
01:29then, Imran Khan's relevance will increase and you will have to deal with him.
01:34If it does not come, then,
01:36finally, the establishment and the government,
01:38or Nawaz Sharif Sahib, Javed Lateef Sahib was saying,
01:41release them, bring them, the poor people.
01:44You tell me, in all these matters,
01:47you have ended the politics of Noor League,
01:49you have ended the politics of People's Party,
01:51you have, in the establishment and in the people,
01:54there has been a loss.
01:56After all, how big a price is this policy paying?
02:00So, if this policy had been successful,
02:03and you had done Imran Khan,
02:05the way you had done Nawaz Sharif or Benazir,
02:10there is a very wrong example,
02:12that we had removed Iltaf Hussain and ended MKM.
02:17MKM was built on a gun.
02:20When they took the gun back from Iltaf Hussain,
02:22MKM sat down.
02:24Imran Khan has no issue, he is not standing on a gun.
02:27So, unfortunately, Pakistan is suffering in this, in this fight.
02:31So, as long as your policy is continuous,
02:36Imran Khan is not suffering,
02:38Pakistan is suffering,
02:40and I am sure that its realization is there,
02:43and that is why we are discussing this.
02:44You want to add something, Mr. Malik?
02:45Yes, Basim, look,
02:46first of all, it is important to understand
02:48that negotiation is not a four-letter word.
02:50Negotiations do not show anyone's weakness or strength.
02:54Negotiations are necessary.
02:55People think that when we are talking about negotiations,
02:58maybe we are just saying that Imran Khan is needed.
03:01No, negotiations, state institutions are also needed,
03:04Imran Khan is also needed.
03:06They need a political stability.
03:08Imran Khan needs his own politics,
03:11he needs his freedom, he needs everything.
03:13And all these casual talks,
03:16that Imran Khan is fine, he is in jail,
03:18these are the things that ordinary people do,
03:21who have not seen jail.
03:22Look, it is very easy to hear,
03:24what happened, it's been a year since you've been in jail.
03:27The year of jail,
03:29it takes you ten years of normal life.
03:31We have seen jails.
03:33It's very difficult.
03:34The day of jail is not 24 hours.
03:37It seems that a day passes in 24 months.
03:40Time stops there.
03:42Time stops.
03:43Your day does not end.
03:45This is not a joke,
03:46that you have been in jail for a year or two,
03:48then it will not matter.
03:49Physical incarceration.
03:50If I get you imprisoned in your house tomorrow,
03:53how's the risk?
03:54You hit the walls after 15 days.
03:56You go crazy.
03:57Where can I go?
03:58Jail is not an easy thing.
04:00Just because the master is completely alone.
04:19I agree with you.
04:21Politically, he has gained.
04:24Politically, he has gained.
04:26But the issue is that,
04:28both of these things are necessary.
04:30But what is the issue?
04:31I just want to add one point.
04:34No.
04:35I just want to add one point.
04:38It's obvious that you're in jail.
04:41It's a good thing.
04:42It's very difficult.
04:43We just came out of jail.
04:46The problem is,
04:47why is Imran Khan in jail?
04:50The reason for keeping Imran Khan in jail is,
04:53that he agrees,
04:55and we get that political stability.
04:58Imran Khan should go out.
05:00This has been a tradition in our country.
05:02Now Imran Khan is out of syllabus.
05:05He is neither going nor dealing.
05:08Ultimately, I am saying that,
05:11the policy that was made after thinking,
05:13that policy is not right.
05:15Is this a game of nerves?
05:16Who blinks first?
05:18Let's manage Imran Khan.
05:20Is this a psychological war, Mr. Fawad?
05:22Who goes first?
05:23This has gone beyond nerves.
05:25Both have shown their nerves.
05:27Look, he has two alpha males.
05:30Imran Khan is also an alpha male.
05:33Imran has popular power.
05:36The other alpha males have land power.
05:39There are two different things.
05:40There is also a conflict of personalities.
05:43I always say that in Pakistan,
05:45every person is bigger than his office.
05:48The one who sits in the office of the Prime Minister,
05:50thinks he is bigger than the Prime Minister.
05:52Same goes with the non-civilian organizations also.
05:55Here, the two personalities are very important.
05:59There is also a personalized thing.
06:02This is a mistrust factor.
06:04Even if there is a deal,
06:05there is a negotiated settlement,
06:07and Imran comes out,
06:09when two lakh people see him,
06:11they will say,
06:12let's renegotiate.
06:14Now they are afraid.
06:15The problem is,
06:16the element of mistrust,
06:18this is the biggest obstacle in any agreement.
06:21This is the reality.
06:22Theoretically,
06:25there are two strong people.
06:27Both have extreme power.
06:29One has popular power.
06:30One has administrative power.
06:32Mistrust is very high.
06:34Who will end this mistrust?
06:35This is the question.
06:36There is a history of international guarantors
06:38ending mistrust in Pakistan.
06:40No, no.
06:41Guarantors,
06:43see,
06:45what Malik has said,
06:46one second,
06:47Malik has said that
06:48one has popular power,
06:50one has physical power.
06:53This is what I am saying to you.
06:55Who is losing in this fight?
06:57The real loss is of Pakistan.
06:59All these Pakistanis,
07:02the citizens,
07:03are affected by this.
07:04But Malik Shah is not saying that
07:06the fight has gone so far
07:07that the mistrust has become deficient.
07:09Fawad, this is the thing.
07:11Both sides have to think more than their own selves.
07:14Everyone.