Today’s most notable creatives join Variety at Sundance for exclusive in-depth conversations across various entertainment mediums, presented by Audible.
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00:00I mean, you've been doing it for years.
00:02I have been doing it for years.
00:04I've just been maintaining, since Glow,
00:06a pretty steady layer of muscle.
00:09But I've been trying to get a little more buffed up.
00:25Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:26We always love seeing you guys together.
00:28We're happy to be here.
00:29Individually, but together even more.
00:31Speaking of which...
00:34Unavoidable.
00:36I think we last had you in for The Rental,
00:39which was so exciting and such an amazing thing to see.
00:41So I know that Dave, you didn't direct this one.
00:43No.
00:44But what about, I know you guys obviously
00:45having lived together and you write together,
00:47and you're just in this incredible sort
00:50of loop of collaboration.
00:51Is this something that you guys have hit your stride with?
00:53Do you love it?
00:54Yes.
00:55Yeah, we want to keep going.
00:57Definitely.
00:58As long as people keep letting us do it,
01:00we're just like, we feel like we're getting away
01:01with something.
01:03Yeah.
01:04But no, we, for whatever reason,
01:06we just work really well together.
01:07And it's one of these things when we're acting together,
01:11like in this film, we're just so comfortable, obviously,
01:15with each other, which allows us to kind of take more risks
01:17and have fun with the material.
01:19And also, we know each other so well
01:22that if one of us has an inauthentic moment,
01:25we know that the other one sees it.
01:26And so it forces us to be our best.
01:29To do our best work.
01:29Yeah.
01:30Kind of, yeah.
01:32Yeah, how does the, can you elaborate on the feedback
01:34process as a creative part of it?
01:36It's honestly, you feel it yourself,
01:38and before the other person says it, you're like, I know,
01:40I know.
01:41Oh, god, we're never giving each other notes on set.
01:44It's true.
01:45It's mostly just like you can feel it.
01:47Ew, I can tell that was false, and I know Dave knows.
01:49Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:51So what was, I know we can't say too, too much
01:53about this conceit, except a lot of people are excited for it.
01:56We can safely say it's genre, right?
01:57Yes, yeah.
01:58What gets there.
01:59Yes.
02:00What about that was sort of exciting to you?
02:02And I know there are overarching emotional themes, too,
02:04that make sense for that scenario.
02:05Yeah.
02:06I mean, this script was so fun to read.
02:11Dave had met with the director, Michael
02:13Shanks, about another project.
02:15And then they started talking about horror films
02:16and their love of those.
02:18And Shanks sent the script to Dave, and he sent it to me.
02:20And when I read it, I just, I loved this marriage of theme
02:26and tonal set pieces.
02:28Like it's, I think horror is at its best
02:31when you could strip away all the horror elements,
02:34and the theme and the story could stand alone on their own.
02:37So this is an exploration of codependency, of intimacy,
02:42of how much one loses their identity within a relationship,
02:47and like when that turns from romantic to scary.
02:52But then on top of it, the set pieces were rad.
02:56It's a horror movie.
02:57It's a full on horror movie.
02:58Oh, definitely.
02:59Then you add those all on, and they all fuel the story
03:02and take it to the next level.
03:04So that made us really excited.
03:05We love horror.
03:06And I think, I know, I'm always looking for the right horror
03:10project to do.
03:12And it's a tall order, because you
03:14know how much energy you're going
03:17to have to exert as an actor in a horror movie.
03:19You're just at a 10 the whole time.
03:21It's cool that.
03:22This was the one.
03:23Yeah.
03:24Demi Moore is getting recognized,
03:26because actors in horror movies are doing so much.
03:30The stakes have never been higher.
03:32And she's incredible.
03:33We love the substance.
03:34Yeah.
03:35And that it would get a Best Picture nomination
03:36as a body of horror.
03:37It's incredible.
03:38It's awesome.
03:38It's awesome.
03:40And hopefully, especially with a body like the Academy,
03:44horror might have its day now.
03:45Exactly.
03:46Forward.
03:47Yes.
03:48You guys up there next year, please come.
03:51Codependency is, I think, an interesting thing that
03:53has been co-opted by a TikTok generation,
03:56where we all say gaslighting now.
03:57But I don't know if we know what it means.
03:59Yes.
03:59What was your concept of that?
04:01And has it changed or evolved through the making of this?
04:03It's funny that you say that, because I do feel like we are
04:07even throwing the word around a lot
04:09as we're doing this press tour and talking
04:11about our own codependency in a way that's light and fun.
04:14But true codependency is insidious.
04:18I think that is the actual thing that we're exploring.
04:21The movie is unhealthy codependency,
04:26when there's a real fear of separating.
04:30And I think that when a couple's identity and self-esteem
04:38is all wrapped up in being together,
04:40and they sort of think, if I'm separated from this person,
04:43I don't exist.
04:45That is the darker realm that we're
04:47taking it to in this movie.
04:49But I agree that you're right.
04:50Everyone throws it around now.
04:52It's like we use it almost to mean we love each other.
04:55We like each other a lot, yeah.
04:58We like hanging out.
04:59Yeah.
05:00We're the light, fun codependency.
05:02Yeah.
05:03Gaslighting can mean just vague now.
05:05It's like you're just gaslighting me.
05:08But what an interesting parallel, too,
05:10for your creative career, is because you're
05:12incredibly viable and standalone.
05:14But like you said, you love doing it
05:16as long as you can get away with it.
05:19Do you find that like, I'm not sure what the pacing has
05:21been for you two, but do you find
05:22that it's really helpful sometimes
05:23when you have to work together to go off on your own
05:26and do something?
05:26Yeah.
05:27Definitely, yeah.
05:28Yeah.
05:29I mean, for many reasons.
05:30But one being we don't want to burn people out on us.
05:35But also, it's nice to just kind of go off and then
05:39get excited again about being like, ooh,
05:41we haven't done anything in a while.
05:42Let's figure something out.
05:43I haven't seen an idea.
05:44Should we write a script about this?
05:46Totally.
05:46It's helpful in maintaining our own independence, truly.
05:50True, yeah.
05:51And also, it's fun.
05:54I love watching Dave's work.
05:55So it's fun when you go off and do something else.
05:57Then it's a treat for me to see that and see you
06:00doing something different.
06:01And it's nice, yeah, to flex different muscles.
06:03It's good to also work with other people
06:06that you're not married to, I think,
06:08and have new experiences.
06:10These are like good things for one's life.
06:12Absolutely.
06:13Yeah.
06:13Speaking of which, I know, are you
06:15about to start Masters of the Universe?
06:16Yeah.
06:17That's amazing.
06:17Do you have to put on 40 pounds of muscle or something?
06:20I'm not sure why.
06:21Obviously.
06:21I mean, she's been doing it for years.
06:23I have been doing it for years.
06:26I've just been maintaining, since Glow,
06:28a pretty steady layer of muscle.
06:31But I've been trying to get a little more buffed up.
06:34That's such a good point.
06:35Glow is like a total, like, you just
06:36have muscle memory now from that.
06:38It's true.
06:38I really do.
06:39It's exciting.
06:40Me too.
06:41Oh my god.
06:42So were you at all, I'm sure you definitely
06:45were in To He Man as a kid, right?
06:47Were you?
06:48Yes, but I'm not a super fan.
06:50Your brothers were.
06:51Yes, yes, yes.
06:53I remember watching it as a kid.
06:55Like, I just, less than remembering the show itself
06:59and details about the show, I more just
07:00remembered the act of, like, being in front of the TV
07:03watching the show.
07:04And She-Ra, of course.
07:06But it has been fun to go back and watch episodes
07:09of the original cartoon.
07:10It's cheeky.
07:11It's weird.
07:12It's funny.
07:13It's like that phenomenon of where, like, it's
07:15just a bunch of, like, 40-year-old men stoners
07:18who write that.
07:19Because this is almost like Thor in the day.
07:21I'm like, this is almost like drag queen-ish.
07:23Our friends who are 40-year-old stoners,
07:26they have now come up to her every time they see her,
07:28and they will sing the He-Man theme song.
07:30In its entirety, yes.
07:32I've been serenaded many a time.
07:33That is so cool.
07:34And you're here with Bubble and Squeak, which is awesome.
07:37It's a very heightened world.
07:38Oh, yeah.
07:40Loved you in the bear costume.
07:41Thank you, thank you.
07:42Talk about muscles.
07:43Just all the cabbage just breaking under your muscles.
07:46I've been scared to go to her gym
07:51that she's been going to for 15 years,
07:53because I was like, I can't be seen at the same place
07:54with her working out.
07:55I can't keep up with this.
07:57But I finally did for Bubble and Squeak.
08:00He can hang.
08:00I was also like, if I'm just going
08:02to be in a cabbage diaper, I got to do some stuff.
08:05That, I support athletic codependence all the way.
08:10Yeah.
08:12And then the other thing I learned overnight
08:14was that apparently you're about to be in Ryan Murphy's
08:16Luigi Mangione story.
08:18I'm learning about it, too.
08:19Are you?
08:20I'm kidding.
08:21No.
08:22I'm kidding, but seriously, no one
08:23will leave you alone about that.
08:24Everyone thinks you should play.
08:25We're getting the call right now.
08:27Yeah.
08:27Do you want to connect with me?
08:29It comes up frequently.
08:30Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:31Such a bizarre thing.
08:33I mean, the crazy part is, we probably
08:35will see a movie about this sooner rather than later.
08:38We'll see.
08:38I mean.
08:39Not from you, necessarily.
08:39It's anyone's guess.
08:40Right, right.
08:41Exactly.
08:42It's hard for me to say anything.
08:43Yeah.
08:44Yeah.
08:45What else do you have coming up?
08:48I'm doing a Colleen Hoover adaptation
08:51called Regretting You with Alison Williams.
08:55The other Alison, as I like to call her.
08:59She should come catch you after the gym.
09:01She's been to that gym.
09:02She's been to the gym.
09:03Has she really?
09:04Yes.
09:05You guys can bond over that.
09:07Oh my god.
09:07But I'm excited about that, just because I've never
09:10kind of full-on drama romance type thing.
09:13So I felt like something new and exciting.
09:15That is so cool.
09:16Are you guys writing together at all?
09:18Or do you have anything around?
09:19You know, we're writing a part currently.
09:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:22I am working on a new sort of horror script
09:25right now with a new writing partner, Alice Stanley Jr.,
09:28who's a playwright.
09:29And she's very talented.
09:30And so we're working on sort of a horror comedy currently.
09:33I just wrote a kind of another thriller, horror type thing.
09:37Sort of erotic thriller?
09:39If you will, yes.
09:41And we have something that an old idea of mine
09:46that we might collaborate on.
09:47That we might start working on it together.
09:49Yeah.
09:49I'm going to take a really big risk,
09:50because I don't want to bring up a bad memory.
09:52But Allison, you told me that once,
09:54weren't you writing something about the loss of your cat?
09:56The loss of my cat?
09:57I'm so sorry.
09:58I'm so sorry.
09:59I don't think I was.
10:00I think you were talking about the rental,
10:01and you said you two were writing a story that
10:03was a little bit social.
10:04You know what?
10:04You know, because in Somebody I Used to Know,
10:07oh, what were you going to say?
10:09Maybe we were saying that Harry, our older cat,
10:11his last hurrah was when we were filming the rental.
10:14When we were filming the rental, we brought our cat Harry,
10:16and that was him seeing the ocean for the first time.
10:18He had the greatest last couple months of his life.
10:21And then we wrote into our film Somebody I Used to Know,
10:23which you can watch on Amazon.
10:25We wrote a lot of odes to our late cat Harry,
10:28and we named that cat Harry.
10:30So there's a lot of that in that movie.
10:32But we have two new cats.
10:33I mean, they're already four years old, Otis and Max.
10:36So don't worry.
10:37New loves of our lives.
10:38I didn't mean to ruin your fucking day.
10:40No, no.
10:40I feel so bad.
10:41But I just remember, like, there's a script.
10:44And then in a very natural transition,
10:45we are here with Audible.
10:47And I was just wondering, are you guys podcast people?
10:51And what do you think, find exciting about that space
10:53as storytellers?
10:54I am the podcast person.
10:56I'm never not.
10:58There will be no moments of silence around her.
11:00If I had it my way, my eyes open,
11:04and I put a podcast on to start my day.
11:07I like to walk around listening to a podcast.
11:09Name the ones you love.
11:10I love Every Outfit.
11:12I love Las Culturistas.
11:14I love The Handsome Pod.
11:16These are all my queer pop culture podcasts.
11:21Those are my top three.
11:22I listen to them religiously.
11:23Of course, we love Smartless and Conan O'Brien.
11:26WTF with Marc Maron.
11:27Wouldn't miss it.
11:29There's just so many.
11:30The DGA Pod, if I'm feeling highbrow.
11:32Team Deacons.
11:34If I'm feeling very highbrow.
11:37What I love about WTF, especially when Glow is on,
11:40is that he would always just call it Glow.
11:42I'm on Glow.
11:44That's how he pronounces it.
11:45You know what, he can do whatever he wants.
11:47Was he doing a joke, or is that just how it came out?
11:50That's very endearing.
11:51It's the noise that came out of him.
11:52It's very sweet.
11:53And what about you?
11:55Especially storytellers, is that something
11:57that interests you?
11:58It's so fun.
11:59In terms of narrative podcasts?
12:00Oh, you mean like if we were to make a podcast?
12:02We don't listen to a lot of narrative podcasts.
12:04But we do listen to a lot of audio books.
12:06Audio books.
12:08But we love biographies and memoirs.
12:12That's our go-to when we're listening.
12:14Yeah, I feel like I'm pop culture in my podcasts.
12:17Or like, I've done the murder podcast as well
12:19in those stories.
12:20But yeah, we love an audio book.
12:22We just saved the Al Pacino book for our Christmas trip
12:27up north.
12:27Our road trip.
12:28You're the third person who's mentioned that here.
12:30Really?
12:30Yes.
12:31It was great.
12:31It's a great time.
12:33Can I recommend Julia Fox?
12:34I just listened to it.
12:35She just did it.
12:36Finished it on the plane here.
12:38Down the drain.