Today’s most notable creatives join Variety at Sundance for exclusive in-depth conversations across various entertainment mediums, presented by Audible.
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00:00I think my mom called the police on me because I snuck out of the house to go to a Jennifer
00:03Lopez night in West Hollywood at 14.
00:06I sure did.
00:07I couldn't miss it.
00:08I could not miss it.
00:09I won't say in the club, but I would have been in trouble, but...
00:12At 14!
00:24Congratulations.
00:25There's so much love and care in this and so much like gravity behind it and it's like
00:29a really big, splashy, incredible Hollywood spectacle with all this heart.
00:36So you guys must be so thrilled to give it to the world.
00:40Let me start with Bill.
00:42Why, aside from the fact that it's made for Ms. Lopez, I can't imagine anybody else in
00:48the world being Spider-Woman, and you've got this incredible up-and-comer too.
00:52Why this story and why now?
00:54I think because I went back and read the novel and couldn't believe that something that was
00:58written in 1876 was so current.
01:01And also, we're living in a time that is a difficult moment, right?
01:06And that's not just now.
01:08It's been over the last few years.
01:10So it felt like there was an urgency to tell this story again.
01:13And also, as a musical, it belonged as a movie.
01:18I think it was wonderful on stage, but it was always something you'd look at and think,
01:22no, that should be a film.
01:26The music is incredible.
01:27And I think the earlier film was so iconic in its way of being a drama that just to recontextualize
01:33all of it, especially, again, against the political unrest of the time, which might
01:37perhaps be, sadly, our future.
01:40It's incredible.
01:41I mean, how are you all feeling right now?
01:42Are you feeling optimistic?
01:43Are you feeling stressed?
01:46Are you feeling-
01:47Very excited.
01:48I'm very excited about it.
01:49Obviously, there's always a bit of nervousness before a film comes out, and you put so much
01:54of your heart and soul into this.
01:55And this was an indie film.
01:57It was real labor of love for all of us.
02:00And so, excited.
02:02I'm excited for people to see it.
02:04I am excited for people to experience Tona in a different way.
02:07I know they know him now from his Carry On fame.
02:10But also, he's an amazing singer and actor.
02:15And it's just, it's like Diego for the first time.
02:19No, he sang in other movies.
02:21He did a couple.
02:22But-
02:24Dancing and going totally out of his comfort zone, too.
02:28And for me, it was a dream come true.
02:29A dream come true.
02:30A role that I could have never hoped for in my whole life.
02:35And knowing that Chita Rivera did it on stage, and wanting to really live up to that.
02:41It was just, the songs are fantastic.
02:44And I think, like Bill said, it's so relevant to right now, and to be able to put it out
02:53there right now is a real blessing, I think.
02:55Absolutely.
02:56I know you personally campaigned for Kamala Harris, and that's what I sort of meant, too.
03:01How are you guys feeling about the state of the world?
03:03Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's a really pivotal moment, right?
03:07And I think our film touches on a lot of the themes that the queer community, the Latin
03:10community is experiencing.
03:12And so, my hope is that when people watch it, they find a sense of solace and home.
03:18And we're fighting for something.
03:20Absolutely.
03:21And hope and joy.
03:23But also, to remember that love does heal all divides.
03:28And to me, that's what the movie is really about.
03:30It's like how these two very different people, and humans in the world, come together and
03:36are thrown into this situation, and find the humanity in one another, and fall in love.
03:42And to me, that is something really, really special, and really, that needs to be seen.
03:46It's like, we're all just human.
03:48And it's an important movie in that way, I think.
03:53Speaking of you doing this independently, it does not seem like you sacrificed scale
03:57at all.
03:58And like, Jennifer, to see you in these massive MGM sets, which you were only honestly born
04:03to do.
04:04I've been waiting my whole life to be able to do a real big MGM Hollywood musical.
04:12And I finally got to do that.
04:15Was it everything you hoped it would be?
04:17More.
04:18It was more.
04:19To be honest, me and Diego were on set, and we were doing Everyday Man in the dark room.
04:25And we're dancing around, and the music is flowing, and we're singing, and looking at
04:30each other.
04:31We were just like, we don't ever want to do anything else but musicals.
04:34Diego said that.
04:35And I said, me too.
04:36I don't want to do anything else.
04:37But yeah, it was phenomenal.
04:41Stevie said once, Jennifer doesn't like to smile a lot when she sings.
04:45And suddenly, during the movie, it's like you couldn't stop smiling.
04:49It was so wonderful.
04:50He said that?
04:51That's so funny.
04:52He did.
04:53Oh my god, I didn't even notice that.
04:54No, I just, you know.
04:55But these songs, how do you not?
04:58I mean, I had 10 musical numbers that I did, and each of these songs were so different.
05:03They were really different songs, every single one of them.
05:06And it was just a joy.
05:08It was just like, gosh, I don't even know.
05:11I can't find enough words to describe the feeling of being able to do the Kander and
05:16Ebb songs.
05:17You said it's kind of a trilogy from Chicago, Cabaret, and now, and Kiss of the Spider Woman.
05:24And it's just, I mean, it was a privilege and an honor to do it.
05:29It transported you.
05:30I mean, like a visit, even when we did our table read, was one of those moments where
05:33I was like, oh, we're doing it.
05:35And we just locked in.
05:36But that was the fun part, right?
05:37It was amazing.
05:38Like, okay, are we singing right now?
05:39Oh, you said, no.
05:40I was like, I took off my glasses, moved over to my iPad, I was like, here we go, we're
05:45doing it.
05:47It's incredibly musically diverse, as you said.
05:49There are sets that look like something that you would do in your own music career.
05:53And then there's a Catalin love ballad you have to sing to a dusty window.
05:58It's incredible.
05:59So for you as a performer, though, were you in an ice bath 24-7?
06:03There's so much dancing.
06:04There was a lot of dancing.
06:05So much, yeah.
06:06There was a lot of jumping off of the bar and hoping they'd catch you and all of that.
06:12Yeah, it was quick.
06:14It was challenging.
06:15But it was exhilarating for me.
06:18And like I said, I had been waiting my whole life to do it.
06:20There was not one complaint I had during the whole thing.
06:23It was just like, can we...
06:24I think what I kept saying was, can I please do it again?
06:26Yes.
06:27And Bill was like, I have it.
06:29I said, please, please let me do it one more time.
06:31He's like, nope, we got it.
06:33Okay.
06:34And Bill, you know, you obviously are such a master of this kind of category, but usually
06:38it's with IP that people have been very, very familiar with.
06:42Did you kind of like find it liberating to do something that maybe was lesser?
06:45A little bit.
06:46And I had the model of the Cabaret movie, right?
06:47Because Cabaret is a great show.
06:49It was great before that movie.
06:51It's survived and had wonderful production since.
06:54But you know, Fosse reconceived it as a movie, which meant it was kind of radically different
06:58from the show.
06:59And John Kander, I met with him and Terrence McDaniel, and they gave me immediate permission.
07:04Do what you have to do to make it into a film.
07:06So that one of the thrilling things, there are songs that Jennifer sings that nobody...
07:11Kander and Ebb songs that no one has heard.
07:13Because I did this kind of archaeological dig and found songs that they'd written years
07:19before when they were first developing it that fit into the movie concept.
07:23So that was...
07:24Yeah, there was something liberating.
07:25Yes, you're right.
07:26Absolutely.
07:27And Tonatiuh, there's an incredible number you sing called She's a Woman that bawled
07:31my eyes out.
07:32Beautiful.
07:33I don't think I've ever seen on screen...
07:34If you wouldn't mind, just maybe talk a little about what the number's about.
07:36And then also just, I don't think I've ever seen it communicated so clearly.
07:40Just the desire and the longing in a really sweet and earnest way of someone who's struggling
07:46with either gender identity or sexuality, to me it's like a blueprint of how we should
07:50be communicating these stories.
07:51For sure.
07:52I think the beautiful setup, the framework of She's a Woman is that I get to play Molina
07:56and Kendall within that same song, right?
07:59And so it transcends all of the many, many different people's experiences in the queer
08:03community as to how they deal with finding who they are and their level of authenticity.
08:10And so from the Kendall perspective, it was like, how do closeted gay men who idolize
08:17beauty and stars of that time to lean into that?
08:22But then for Molina, I think there was something so much more deeper.
08:25It's an escape.
08:26It is a longing to be seen.
08:31And the wonderful thing about our film and the gift that Bill has really given me as
08:35an actor is the ability to, within one context, express the spectrum, right?
08:42And allow one spirit to just transcend all of that.
08:45And just the idea of that song and Diego in that scene saying he doesn't understand.
08:51He's like, I want to be a woman.
08:54And he's like, what do you...
08:56Not being understood.
08:58And I think the song puts it, like you said, in a very beautiful, soft, gentle way expressing
09:05the emotions of what that must be like for someone, which is incredibly moving and touching.
09:12Well, I'm glad that you brought up the Diego because to lead it into that moment, I don't
09:16think Valentin intended to cause pain to someone.
09:21And I think that there are certain silent aggressions that happen.
09:27And when your spirit isn't strong enough to handle them, it almost hits harder, right?
09:33But I think his intent on understanding someone and the inability to reach another person
09:38is something that is so relevant to parents and children and what's currently happening.
09:45Because I think that it's well-meaning people who are trying to love and understand each
09:49other, but they miss the mark, right?
09:50And so then how do we build that conversation and how do we heal those moments?
09:55Yeah.
09:56And I think certainly one way is to see something like this.
09:58Yeah, literally that.
09:59And I also just want to say, too, how encouraging it is to see cinematically, and I think we
10:04usually see those kinds of stories struggling with these kinds of issues, it's always in
10:09the context of like, this might sound indelicate, but like, okay, someone is a sex worker who's
10:14putting on a dress for the first time.
10:16It's always riddled with trauma.
10:18It's always like a context of being isolated or thrown out of the house for it, or they
10:22catch you putting on lipstick, and here it's this beautiful, genuine discovery.
10:26Even seeing you put on La Luna scarves, seeing yourself in the mirror, there's just something
10:30so innocent and really pure and honest about it.
10:32Well, I do think that Molina knows who he is.
10:36It's more so of, see me, and allowing the defenses to come down.
10:42Waiting for somebody to understand you and see you in the way that only through the eyes
10:46of love can that happen, right?
10:49And that's why we have to be open to seeing other people and loving them for who they
10:53are and allowing them to be who they are.
10:55Absolutely.
10:56Jennifer, I don't want to embarrass you, but there's already Oscar buzz for this movie.
10:58Oh, my goodness.
10:59How do you know that the internet, and many of us at Variety, are still horrified you
11:02were not nominated for Hustlers?
11:05What would it mean to you to get that kind of recognition for this film?
11:09I don't even want to begin the conversation.
11:12I just am so, like I said, being able to do the film is so great.
11:19Of course, I would love it to get the recognition that I believe that it deserves, because I
11:24think Bill wrote a script that for the first time in my life I sat there and I was in bed,
11:30I remember reading it, and I started saying it out loud.
11:35I was saying the lines and saying, hey, listen to this, oh, my God, and laughing and crying
11:42and going, oh, my God, this is what I've been waiting for my whole life, my whole life.
11:49This is all I've ever wanted to do.
11:50I got into movies because of West Side Story and wanting to sing and dance and act.
11:56That's what I did.
11:57I sing musical theater.
11:59That was what I thought I would always be doing.
12:02I thought I was going to do Broadway.
12:03I didn't even think I was ... I wanted to do movies, but I didn't think about making
12:08records.
12:09That's what I wanted to do.
12:10I wanted to do musicals.
12:11I love musicals, and my kids love musicals, because my mother did.
12:17It was a dream fulfilled in having done the movie and having been so blessed to have someone
12:27as talented as Bill want me to do that.
12:31To me, that was like, wow, okay, I'm going to do everything I can to make this the best.
12:40I just might not let anybody down, so I'm very excited.
12:43There's an interesting meta angle, too, because does it strike you, and I'm not sure how much
12:46you look at this stuff, but does it strike you that there are little queer kids out there
12:50dressing up as you?
12:53It's not weird at all.
12:55It's one of the things that I understood about the role that I think maybe other actors couldn't,
13:01is understanding what you mean to your fans when you sing music, when you do movies.
13:07You mean something to them, and you have a relationship with them where they save you,
13:12and you save them.
13:14They're also doing it for you, and they don't even understand that sometimes, how they get
13:18you through things that are so difficult, but they are always telling you, you got me
13:23through this, you got me through that, and understanding Molina's relationship to Ingrid
13:28Luna is like, you helped me survive my life.
13:33Is there a particular project of yours that comes up?
13:35You see a lot of an era, a song that people cling to you?
13:39There's so many things.
13:40There's specific songs.
13:42There's album cuts that were never hits that people will come up to me and say, this song
13:47or that song.
13:48There's movies, whether it's Enough, whether it's ... There's so many things that people
13:55will randomly say, and I'm like, oh, thank you.
14:00And then there's all the radio on Selena, and Out of Sight, and The Mother, whatever.
14:05There's tons of them, but it's such a blessing, but it's that exchange.
14:12We captured there, and I wanted to do this one thing in Where You Are, which is a really
14:20big musical number that I get to do with Tona, and I was like, can I please just hold him
14:26for a second, and can I say, he's my sweetest ... It's just like, you don't understand.
14:31We do this for each other, and that was a very special moment of exactly what you're
14:36speaking about.
14:37Can I just ... Please, no.
14:38I'm wearing my best name that is talking about it, and now we're out of control.
14:42We won't shut up.
14:43No, no, yeah, exactly.
14:44No, but one thing that was remarkable, we auditioned Melinas all across the globe, and
14:48I can't tell you ... It was always the same scene, and it was always him talking about
14:52the diva, Ingrid Luna, and I was amazed.
14:55In very, very different countries, people had their own picture of Jennifer Lopez that
15:00they would put up on their home videos.
15:03It wasn't newly bought.
15:04It was there.
15:05It was incredible.
15:06The relationship that Melina has to her exists in the world with you.
15:11It was incredible.
15:12Yeah.
15:13It's a very special relationship, your relationship with your fans.
15:17I love my fans.
15:18It's weird because I know that I know you now under a completely different context,
15:23but entering that space, I mean, we've never talked about it because I've always felt weird
15:28saying it, but you have been such a part of my lived experience.
15:32I think my mom called the police on me because I snuck out of the house to go to a Jennifer
15:35Lopez night.
15:36It was Hollywood at 14.
15:37I sure did.
15:38I couldn't miss it.
15:39At what club?
15:40I could not miss it.
15:41I won't say the club.
15:42I don't want to get in trouble.
15:43At 14?
15:44But no, you- I'm dead.
15:47You have such a place in our hearts as a community, and to share where you are with you, I don't
15:55think I could have expressed what it felt like to hear you tell me after strikes, after
16:02COVID, come and join me and be here with me.
16:08I was living that moment.
16:10It wasn't even acting.
16:11I think I just had to be present and witness the magnitude and the impact that you have
16:16had on me, and I'm so grateful to have just spent time with you and to have done this
16:21project with you.
16:22I know.
16:23It's-
16:24We're so-
16:25That's what I mean.
16:26Last question.
16:27Speaking of the club, you were amazing at Tao last night.
16:29Oh.
16:30Set the whole thing on fire.
16:31Talk to me about jumping.
16:32Bye.
16:33You did that though.
16:34You got up there.
16:35Come on.
16:36Listen.
16:37Listen.
16:38I had no intention of getting up there.
16:39I've been- You know, I don't get out a lot, you know, to go and have like a little fun
16:45night with friends, and the DJ was killing it, and it was a moment, and he called me
16:52up there, and I was like, I should have stayed in my seat.
16:56Not on.
16:57No ma'am.
16:58Zero percent.
16:59It was such a good time.
17:00Yeah.
17:01And it was so much fun, and it was nice to kind of let loose for a second.
17:04You're the reason I sound like Kathleen Turner today.
17:05No.
17:06No.
17:07Why do you think my voice literally is gone?
17:08Yeah.
17:09Yeah.
17:10We were screaming.
17:11It was amazing.
17:12We are so thrilled for you guys.
17:13Congratulations.
17:14Beautiful, beautiful movie.