Simon and Stephen discuss padel, Dragon's Den and lending options.
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00:00Paddle, Dragon's Den, new lending options, that's what's coming up on today's Daily
00:06Business Briefing and we're sponsored this week by Shawbrook.
00:16Hello I'm Simon Keegan.
00:18I'm Stephen Pavell.
00:19So Stephen, something a lot of people have been waiting for is the return of Dragon's
00:24Den last night.
00:25Of course, yeah.
00:26Are you a fan?
00:27Yeah, it comes with some great stories for us, so yeah, big fan.
00:30It's fantastic, isn't it?
00:31And I know here in the North West we've had a few entrepreneurs have been on the show.
00:36They've told me one or two things about it, not everything meets the eye on that programme.
00:43Not necessarily able to tell us these stories.
00:45No, no, but maybe we'll reveal them one day.
00:50But one of our entrepreneurs, Derry Green from the Secret Garden Glamping, he won investment
00:56last year.
00:57He actually had about four dragons offer him the money and in the end he accepted money
01:04from Debra Meaden, who's one of the proper dragons, isn't she?
01:08Yeah, one of the ones you want when you go on there.
01:10Absolutely, she's a legend.
01:11So he's been able to grow since he was on there and what he's done is he's given us
01:16a little peek behind the scenes on there.
01:19He's shared some pictures that he took when he was filming, when he was in the green room
01:24and everything.
01:25And also he's given some tips for people who might want to go on there, you know, the ways
01:32that you should think about your pitch and stuff like that.
01:34So that's really interesting stuff.
01:36So be sure to check that out.
01:39Now one thing that I think probably could have gone on Dragons' Den is, I was going
01:45to call it Padel, but I'm informed it's Padel.
01:49Yeah, we have recently learned the preferred pronunciation is Padel.
01:53One minute ago we learned this, didn't we?
01:55So what news have you got on Padel, or Padel as the case may be?
01:59This week's Padel news comes from Birmingham.
02:02We've got plans for what is believed to be the first dedicated paddle facility in Birmingham
02:07and that's being brought forward by the Paddle Club, which is backed by sports stars such
02:12as Michael Vaughan, Joss Butler, James Milner and Shea Given.
02:16So some really well-known names from various sports there.
02:20The scheme is being developed at Peddymoor, which is in rural southern Caulfield and it's
02:24been brought forward with IAM properties.
02:27It would feature two outdoor courts and eight indoor courts, as well as a clubhouse and
02:32social area.
02:34Peddymoor itself has been developed with Birmingham City Council and is already home to Amazon,
02:39which has created more than 1,400 jobs since it opened there.
02:43The Paddle Club has facilities currently in Gloucester and Cheshire, but it has plans
02:48for at least three more this year.
02:50The company is in fact in two of our news stories today.
02:53It's also partnered with Bruntwood for another second facility in Cheshire.
02:58So yeah, really a fast-growing company there and a fast-growing sport.
03:03It certainly is a fast-growing sport.
03:06Now, not every company is lucky enough to get investment from Dragons and I suppose
03:15if you are looking for investment to grow your company, there's a number of funding
03:20options out there.
03:21One of the funding options, which I think in my experience has really grown, I've seen
03:26it in the Northwest, but I know the same is true national as well, is asset-based lending.
03:32So I actually had Oliver Wilson from Shawbrook come into this very studio and tell us about
03:40how some of these ABL options can help businesses to grow and I suppose some of the new ways
03:48that they are approaching these different lending options.
03:54So we're going to cut to that video now.
03:56So we'll say thanks very much for joining us and enjoy the interview.
04:01Hi, I'm Simon Keegan.
04:03I'm the editor of the Northwest Business Insider and I'm joined today for a very special business
04:08interview with Oliver Wilson, head of ABL at Shawbrook.
04:13Thanks for joining us.
04:14Morning Simon, nice to see you.
04:15You too.
04:16So tell us a little bit more about your, I suppose, new role in Shawbrook.
04:21What does that entail?
04:22Sure.
04:23So I lead our asset-based lending, or ABL, business at Shawbrook, which is fairly self-explanatory
04:28but I guess I view this role very much as a growth role for this business for Shawbrook.
04:33The asset-based lending industry is a reasonably mature industry in the UK market and it can
04:38be hard to grow in mature markets.
04:40So for me, my remit very much is to bring a growth mandate to the asset-based lending
04:45business at Shawbrook and I'm excited to do that.
04:47Right, fantastic.
04:48Well, the ABL community is one that we see grow.
04:52We do our ABL dinner every year so it'll be good to see you guys at that.
04:58So tell us about the market.
04:59I mean, it's been, as everybody knows, it's been an eventful couple of years politically
05:06and sort of economically.
05:09So what's your sort of outlook for 2025?
05:11Yeah, I think the outlook's pretty decent for 2025.
05:15As you said, it's been a very challenging time and actually a lot of the time uncertainty
05:19is the killer of the M&A market, which is where most of our opportunity and most of
05:23the transactions we get involved in come from.
05:25As we move into 2025, I think a lot of the uncertainty elements have been removed a little
05:31bit.
05:32We feel like the markets can deal with bad news because you can plan for bad news that
05:36you know about.
05:37It's the uncertainty that causes the problem.
05:38So whether that's been interest rate rises, whether that's been the change in government,
05:42then the budget, hopefully now all of the uncertainties are out of the way.
05:47There's obviously still a world of geopolitical issues going on as well, which inevitably
05:51has an impact.
05:52But I think certainly going into 2025, I certainly feel optimistic about growth, about the M&A
05:57market in general, and that's what feeds into what we do.
06:00Yeah, yeah.
06:01You talked about growth, you talked about M&A.
06:04I mean, a few years ago, that's not really where people would associate ABL, is it?
06:10Sometimes it would be that maybe if you were struggling or if it was a last resort, you'd
06:15look at asset-based lending.
06:17That's all changed now.
06:18I know of loads of businesses that are utilising ABL for these, as you say, these growth events
06:25and things like that.
06:26That's what you're focused on, isn't it?
06:28Absolutely.
06:29The focus of the ABL structure is in working capital and current assets, and that remains
06:35the case.
06:36But many, many more borrowers now are choosing ABL as a structure because of the flexibility
06:40it can provide, because of the way it can grow with the businesses that they're looking
06:44to grow with as well, and are now choosing to use that structure for M&A as well as growth
06:49initiatives.
06:50So it's very much not a kind of lender of last resort type structure anymore.
06:54It's become a lot more mainstream and a lot more at the forefront of people's minds, for
06:57sure.
06:58But is it more mainstream in terms of the types of sectors?
07:02I think in the past, maybe people would think, well, you have to have heavy machinery and
07:07plant to look at ABL.
07:10Is it a bit more diverse now, would you say?
07:12It certainly is a bit more diverse, for sure.
07:15Obviously, you have to have some assets, but typically, that can be receivables, it can
07:18be inventory.
07:19Obviously, it still can be plant or property.
07:22But increasingly, certainly at Shawbrook, we're able to combine the asset-based part
07:26of the structure with a more leveraged finance cashflow-based part of the structure.
07:30And that's certainly an element that served us well in recent years, and is a key part
07:34of our growth strategy, to be able to make sure we can still blend those two structures
07:38together to give a customer a really unique solution.
07:41So we have changed things around a little bit, but that's really just to better set
07:44us up for growth going forward.
07:46We know that for our customers, we have to add value to these transactions, and we have
07:50to win every deal in a competitive market.
07:53So for us, we're always looking about the evolution of our business and the best way
07:56we can serve our customers.
07:58And for us, that's been about focus and expertise, really.
08:00So the way we've organized ourselves now is to make sure that we've got absolute focus
08:04on both the ABL and our other products, and that we've got dedicated experts who can provide
08:11the absolute best-in-class solutions for our customers.
08:14And we think that sets us up well for growth, whilst maintaining that ability to work together
08:20as two teams, side-by-side, to deliver combined solutions for people as well.
08:23So for us, it's very much about setting ourselves up to be able to give the best experience
08:27to the customer in a competitive market.
08:29So is there any changes to your focus in terms of geography, or deal size, or markets, or
08:34anything like that?
08:35Or is it mainly a kind of, as you say, focus?
08:38Yeah, I think not hugely.
08:40We're still a national team providing national coverage.
08:42We're focused in and around our three regional hubs of Manchester, London, and Birmingham.
08:48But we're still a national team providing solutions across the whole country.
08:52Deal size-wise, we're still targeting that 5 to 50 million of debt zone.
08:58So not a huge change to the target markets, but just a better way to organize ourselves
09:02to deliver for the customer.
09:03Very much in that SME space, and certainly here in the Northwest, and I know this is
09:09going out to all of our regions, that's a real lifeblood of the business, isn't it?
09:14The owner-managed, the family businesses, those businesses in that space.
09:18Yeah, you're absolutely right.
09:20And they're the businesses that we thrive off dealing with, because we want to deal
09:23with businesses who have got exciting plans, who are growth businesses.
09:27We want to go on that growth journey with them.
09:29And actually, that's where we can add value as well, where we can help management teams
09:32who might not have used the ABL before, they might not have had debt before, they might
09:36be doing their first M&A transaction.
09:38And that's where we're set up to hold their hand, to help, to provide advice, to make
09:43that process as simple and as beneficial for them as it can be, through that process.
09:47And that's really what we're about.
09:49And you talk about that kind of five to 50 sweet spot, I mean, hopefully, you'll see
09:53businesses coming in at five and still working with them when they're at 50.
09:58And that's the dream for us, really.
09:59We're a growth organization as well.
10:00And of course, one of the best ways for us to grow is to back growth businesses and then
10:04go on that journey with them.
10:05And that's very much been at the center of how we've organized ourselves and the types
10:09of transactions that we want to do.
10:11So very much for us, taking in a business, like you say, when they're at five million,
10:14going through that journey with them to one or two exits time is absolutely the dream
10:19customer.
10:20And so you're on that growth journey as well, aren't you?
10:22And I suppose in some respects, you're growing with the clients in that way, aren't you?
10:27Exactly.
10:28That's exactly it.
10:29Yeah.
10:30Yeah.
10:31Yeah.
10:32And so when I've spoken to Shawbrooke in the past, you've always emphasized that kind of
10:35personal approach.
10:36I almost think of it as quite old school in a way.
10:39You know, in, I don't know, like the 60s and 70s, your bank manager would know you by name
10:44kind of thing, whereas I don't think perhaps you don't associate that anymore, do you,
10:49in this computerized world?
10:51You know, are these personal relationships something that you're kind of thriving on?
10:56Absolutely.
10:57Yeah, they are.
10:58We know, we've sat in front of hundreds of SMEs over, I certainly personally have sat
11:03in front of a number of SME management teams over the last five years.
11:05And we always ask them, you know, how do you make your choice?
11:08How do you decide which lender you want to go with?
11:10And we ask our customers, what is it you like about dealing with us?
11:13And we know now that, you know, most SMEs and low and mid-market businesses want flexibility
11:20in the structure that we can give them.
11:22They want a relationship.
11:23They want to be able to pick up the phone and talk to a human.
11:26They want to have a regular discussion, actually get value-added input and contribution from
11:31their relationship with the bank.
11:32And they also want certainty of delivery.
11:34They want to know that if we've said we'll deliver something in a timeframe for them,
11:37specifically for M&A, that we can stand up and do that.
11:40And that's really what we've focused in on completely.
11:42That's what we know our customers want, and that's what we try and do.
11:45There's nothing better, is there, than just that personal approach.
11:48As you say, it's about relationships, people by people, don't they?
11:51And if you can, as you say, build those lasting relationships, you're going to go with those
11:56businesses on that journey, aren't you?
11:58That is the plan.
11:59And that's, you know, served us well so far.
12:00And I think hopefully we've set ourselves up well to continue to do that through next
12:04year.
12:05Absolutely.
12:06Well, Olive, thank you for joining us.
12:07It's been great to talk to you.
12:10Thank you all for watching, and I'm sure you can find any of the latest news from Shawbrooke
12:15on insidermedia.com.