👉 Carlos Rinzelli, piloto y experto en aeronáutica, analiza las circunstancias del reciente accidente aéreo. Destaca el acto heroico de los pilotos al intentar minimizar el impacto contra un barrio residencial. Rinzelli también discute posibles causas técnicas del accidente y enfatiza la necesidad de esperar los resultados oficiales de la investigación en curso.
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00:00We see that the plane, I don't know if you share this, in a heroic act takes to the street, tries not to go fully against the neighborhood,
00:09it continues straight, well, it crashes and the explosion occurs, this is so.
00:13Now, we ask ourselves, in all the chronicles you read, it says for reasons that are unknown,
00:18but what do you infer, what do you see of what could have happened here, or what do you already know, right?
00:23Look, obviously, and of course I have to tell you at the beginning that there is an investigation in progress
00:29and we have to wait for the transport security board to make its preliminary report, which is ready,
00:35and especially the end, and it will take time, because this has to do with looking for the DNA that the plane has,
00:43product of the collection that they already did of the boxes,
00:47that have data on all the communications of the pilots since they took off from Punta del Este until they arrived in San Fernando,
00:56and especially the movements of the plane that are registered to be able to determine if it had a technical problem
01:03or a combination between the human and the technical.
01:07That is, that is recorded, forgive me Carlos, until the last scream, until the last scream of,
01:13no, such a thing is not working, that is recorded.
01:17Everything is recorded, absolutely everything is recorded,
01:20from the moment they took off until they finished the way we are seeing how they finished.
01:25Now, that is the first reading, I should tell you the following,
01:29when you are going to do a parallel analysis of what could have happened,
01:33you say, was the plane reliable, did it have any antecedents of something?
01:39No, an absolutely new plane, a Challenger that you said, 300, well maintained,
01:46that is, the plane was not a problem.
01:49Well, then it was the weather, which neither, because yesterday was a stormy day,
01:54there was a barbaric sun, an ideal temperature, so it was not the weather either.
01:59And in this I want to emphasize because I need to do it from a personal point of view.
02:03You say, well, the pilots, I met Martin because he flew with me many years ago,
02:10I fly or have flown with my brother and I have been friends with the uncle for 30 years.
02:15Now you tell me, and what does all this have to do with it?
02:17It is an aeronautical family of many years.
02:20Martin had an adequate experience for this plane.
02:24Martin Fernández Loza, who was 44 years old.
02:28Exactly, and you think that you can become a pilot,
02:31now a good person came with your family, and this boy was an excellent person, not good, excellent.
02:37Then it starts to make noise for me to understand what happened,
02:42because in short, when you say, the plane did not go, the weather did not go, the pilot did not go,
02:48where do we aim?
02:51Then the two data that are these that must be tried to decode well,
02:56so that the board can finally say what happened,
02:59and they have to do with the plane approaching at a very high speed.
03:03I'm going to make a minimum correction that has to do with reading and nothing else.
03:08It crossed the headland with 200 knots, the 0.5 headland that you referenced,
03:14when it should have crossed it with 120, 130 knots.
03:17There it had 70 more knots.
03:19Now we are going to say, where did you get this data from?
03:21The Freiradar, which is an unofficial app, but the record is there.
03:26And above all, it touched half the runway.
03:29Now, excuse me, Carlos, if you are already there at 200 knots and not at 120,
03:34are we talking about a problem of calculation of the pilot or a problem of the plane?
03:39Or that, inexorably, we have to wait for the black box.
03:42And we have to wait for the box to finally know what it was.
03:46Now, let's say, point by point, let's say, if it was in this place with so much speed,
03:52could it have aborted the approach at that point, before touching?
03:56Of course, and that's what it should have done,
04:00that is, take flight again.
04:05Carlos, let me ask you, we had a video to share, in that sense,
04:10we understand, I am not an expert in aviation, much less,
04:13but well, reading a little, seeing what is the function of the reverse or reverse thrust,
04:18which, let's say, lowers the speed of the plane when it touches the runway.
04:24Could that mechanic have failed and that, somehow, did not go down from 200 knots,
04:30allowed the plane to continue at that speed?
04:33Well, I'm curious about your question to be able to explain.
04:37The reverser is not used in flight.
04:40It is used when you touch the runway and you need to brake.
04:44In other words, the plane brakes.
04:46By device and pre-suspenders, I'm not going to mix them up.
04:50There we are sharing images of how it works,
04:53how it works for people to understand what the reverse thrust is.
04:57I'll get to that, let me get there.
04:59The plane's own brakes, which are on the wheels,
05:02and then, and this comes as a gift, because the factory gives you this situation,
05:07there you are watching the video, the rear part of the engine has like a cone,
05:12which is the reverser.
05:15An additional brake, which is not contemplated in the tables for braking,
05:20but that you, there it is deployed, look, there they are deployed.
05:23Well, but that it serves you to brake.
05:25Now you will tell me, could this have failed?
05:28Yes, but in flight they cannot use it, it could have failed on land.
05:32Now, why do I refer to this to you?
05:36Because having landed in the middle of the runway,
05:40with reverser, without reverser, with brake or without brake,
05:44you gave away 50% of the braking surface.
05:48Of course, of course.
05:49So there is no plane, I mean, there is no plane.
05:52Obviously you have degraded the possibility of braking.
05:55And, let's see, Carlos.
05:56Because if the plane had not had this problem, another one,
05:59you use as much runway as possible.
06:02Of course.
06:03Without having a kind of aerodynamics, I tell you this.
06:06No, it's good because, let's see, many people thought that the San Fernando airport
06:11could not be international, but then they said, no, it has,
06:14let's see, correct me, 1,800 meters, more or less, long?
06:19Yes.
06:20It has 1,700.
06:22Okay.
06:23100 meters more does not change.
06:25When you ...
06:26Those 1,700 meters.
06:27Yes.
06:28For these planes too?
06:30Of course.
06:31Okay, okay.
06:32Enough.
06:33Well.
06:34I tell you this.
06:35A plane transports weight.
06:37Depending on the weight, you calculate the speed you need to touch the runway,
06:42decelerate it and brake it.
06:44Now, the lighter the plane is, you need less speed, no more.
06:49Of course, of course.
06:50So the question is.
06:51Yes.
06:52Did it come from Punta del Este?
06:53Yes.
06:54Did it have passengers?
06:55No.
06:56No.
06:57Did it come from Lodó?
06:58It came light.
06:59So the plane should have touched with less speed and in the first quarter of the runway.
07:02And Carlos, assuming that, I don't know, instead of 1,800, it would have had 1,000 more meters.
07:07Yes.
07:08Would it have had time to brake or would it still go to the neighborhood?
07:11Well, here comes the second part.
07:14If you are overspeed and that speed is not 70 knots, the plane skids,
07:21that is, it leaves the runway, falls on the grass and takes 10, 15 meters to brake,
07:29it is a product that you have a little speed left and you compensate it by leaving the runway.
07:35It doesn't mean it's okay, but it can happen.
07:37That is what is technically called runway expulsion.
07:40Okay.
07:41It happened many times and it will happen again.
07:43Yes.
07:44Because of miscalculations, because the runway is wet, that's why I told you about the meteorology, which was not the case.
07:49Now, if you leave the runway with 70 knots of extra speed and you don't brake it in 10 meters.
07:56Of course.
07:57And here comes the heroic part of the guys.
07:59Because it is also true that since they had directional control for the purpose of the nose wheel of the plane,
08:06they oriented it in the last meters so that it would not hit the smallest amount of houses possible.
08:15Yes.
08:16It would have been a disaster.
08:17A heroic act.
08:18In the last seconds they realize that they are going to die, that they are going to crash.
08:24Look, it's like this, you never think that they are going to die, but they wanted to hit as little as possible.
08:31Because it is also true that a plane that is full of fuel, you see, where it hits, unfortunately, it will explode and there will be fire.
08:39Of course, of course.
08:40Now, let's go back to this international airport.
08:44Yes.
08:45What kind of plane, can all kinds of planes land there?
08:51The planes used at this airport are small and medium-sized.
08:57Okay.
08:58And they have no problem.
08:59And to the question they have asked, because I have heard it since yesterday,
09:03you think, this is not a problem of Argentina or San Fernando or the province of Buenos Aires or the province of Tucumán.
09:10In general, first the airport is established and then the people, perimetrically, build their houses.
09:18Of course.
09:19Is it the best? No, but it happens all over the world.
09:22Guillermo, remember that we wanted to run the airport and make an island to separate it from the city.
09:28Exactly, yes.
09:29You go to New York and you are stuck in the middle of the city.
09:32Exactly, as it is, as it is.
09:35It is not a problem of Argentina.
09:37What happens is that you cannot think or predict, I put it this way,
09:43that a plane is going to go around the runway at the speed it did and it is going to crash.
09:49Because, you see, they are very weak houses.
09:52Anyway, I tell you, as much as it is a house with a solid structure,
09:57a blow from this plane, full of fuel, is a disaster.
10:01During the flight, I don't know if you're going to see this too with the box,
10:05during the flight, couldn't they have some kind of problem that could set them on an alarm?
10:12They only realized when they were already, I don't know,
10:15tell me, in the last two minutes, in the last minute,
10:18when they wanted to enter through the headliner and nothing, they passed half.
10:24When do you realize that something is wrong?
10:27Well, look, the plane, the panel that you have is a Christmas tree.
10:32Any light that turns on is warning you something, for good or bad.
10:35Okay.
10:36When you have a system failure that is going to complicate your landing,
10:41the first thing you have to do is declare yourself in an emergency,
10:44so that the control knows that it has to alert the fire department, ambulance,
10:50port security and so on.
10:52Now, let's assume that you had a failure and you couldn't warn,
10:56because, you see, they don't give you a hand, try to solve it as best you can and so on.
11:01You're not going to touch half the runway.
11:05That's the other thing that makes noise to me.
11:07Of course, that's why I asked you.
11:09You get on the plane or you go to another airport that has a longer runway.
11:12Of course.
11:13That's where you make the case.
11:15Or you take the whole runway, not the first quarter.
11:19Exactly.
11:20Do you understand me?
11:21Yes.
11:22No, sorry, not half, you take the whole runway.
11:24The whole runway, from the beginning.
11:26Exactly, exactly.
11:28And I'm surprised, I insist on this again, because, which is what hurts me,
11:34because, Martin, I tell you, a guy with experience, a flower of a kid,
11:37I put it this way and I think they understand it,
11:40a flower of a kid that one knew him from when he started flying
11:46and on this plane it is not the first time that he flew it.
11:49Even yesterday there were some versions of some bad news before the flight.
11:58I talked about it, you see, I have some relationship with River
12:02and through a third person, President Brito told me,
12:06Carlos, that is non-existent, because no one is going to tell you,
12:10you have a problem or you can't work, as a result of, before a flight.
12:16I mean, it's crazy, it doesn't exist anywhere in the world.
12:19So he told me, please clarify it,
12:21that he was a person who took my dad at the time and my mom and my whole family.
12:27You are not going to give the opportunity to take your family to someone you don't trust.
12:32Of course, of course, of course.
12:34Let's see, to clarify that part I missed it,
12:37that someone suspected that he could have been the father of this.
12:40I don't know, a psychiatric issue.
12:42Exactly.
12:43He received bad news and that's why he had a...
12:45I don't even want to say it because yesterday was a tragedy.
12:49But now I understand you.
12:51But what I want to get to is that this, beyond what we refer to with the parameters,
12:56the excellent plane, the excellent pilot and with good certification to fly it,
13:03the excellent meteorology and so on.
13:06You say, well, but how did it happen?
13:08And in reality what we are talking about is,
13:10why did he come so fast and didn't make an escape?
13:13Why did he touch the middle of the runway and didn't make the escape?
13:16Yes, look, we, Carlos, from very early on,
13:18we were looking for images about planes that abort landings for different reasons.
13:22This is a case in Austria.
13:24Please, put it in the air, please.
13:27There is a storm, there is a lot of wind.
13:30Something that didn't happen yesterday.
13:31Of course, look at how it is freezing.
13:33It had to land?
13:35Of course.
13:36Let's see, let's see.
13:38Is it going to land or not?
13:40It was very difficult.
13:42But you...
13:43But look, look, look at how Carlos ends up.
13:45He's going to touch and go back up.
13:47Okay.
13:52I mean, he was almost there, but...
13:54Nothing happened.
13:55No, no, but he kept hitting one side of the other.
13:57I don't know.
13:58I ask Carlos, why is he doing this?
14:00And if this could have been done yesterday?
14:04Well, but you, notice that there the meteorology was compromised.
14:07Of course.
14:08And not only that.
14:10There was a lot of wind in front of the plane in a particular way.
14:14The plane fought it.
14:15Notice that he touches the first quarter of the runway and escapes.
14:19Of course.
14:20Imagine if he had touched the middle of the runway.
14:22Yes.
14:23And aborting a plane of these Airbus, is it the same as aborting in a Challenger?
14:30It's the same as aborting in a single-engine plane, in a Challenger, in an Airbus, in a Embraer, in whatever you want.
14:39It's a piloting maneuver.
14:40The plane can be smaller, medium, larger.
14:44The volume it has and the weight, you translate it into speed.
14:47But all the planes fly the same.
14:49And here, Carlos, is it the pilot's expertise and decision, or someone from the tower who tells him,
14:54I'm out, I'm back.
14:56You are the only one responsible.
14:58The tower can advise you.
15:00Because they tell you.
15:02Look, there's wind or something, the runway is wet or it's dry.
15:06That is, the variables of the issues you need to land, they tell you.
15:10Now, the decision is yours as a captain.
15:13That's why the hours are worth a lot in the captains and the experience, right?
15:17No, sure.
15:18That's what I was asking you.
15:19The game, then you play it in there with the responsibility, with people behind.
15:24I suppose there is also, I don't know if there is time to agree with the co-pilot or it is the pilot.
15:28No, no, no.
15:29Has it ever happened to you?
15:31There always has to be time.
15:33That's why the planes, many, come certified to fly with a single pilot.
15:38And the industry puts two.
15:40Sure.
15:41Because one is the one who has the command and is the pilot who flies.
15:45Yes.
15:46But the other, regardless of whether you are the captain or the co-pilot.
15:49But the other is the one who is permanently assisting him and monitoring him.
15:55That's why it's called, I put it like this, it can be for this side or for this one.
15:59Yes.
16:00Pilot monitoring.
16:01Sure.
16:02They are looking at you and they are telling you, master, look, I don't know, master,
16:06Yes, yes, yes.
16:07whatever you want.
16:08Yes.
16:09You're going this way, you're going that way.
16:10Look, we have an exceeded speed.
16:12Yes.
16:13Now, Carlos, does the co-pilot have the same ability to fly the plane as the pilot?
16:17Uh-huh.
16:20Legal responsibility.
16:21It was cut off a little bit.
16:22How?
16:23It's exactly the same.
16:24Okay.
16:25It's a matter, the difference is legal responsibility.
16:28Let's see, why do I ask you?
16:30Well, if it were just one, we would all be more scared always because he has a heart attack,
16:35I don't know, some problem, a stroke, and nobody knows how to pilot, we're gone.
16:40Do you understand?
16:41That's why it's good that there are two.
16:42Now, explain to me the issue of legal responsibility.
16:45Assuming that the pilot has a health problem.
16:48The captain of the plane is the most responsible for the flight.
16:53Yes.
16:54When you close the door.
16:55Yes.
16:56You are the most responsible for the flight.
16:58The one who greets you, tells you, hello, how are you?
17:00This is flight such, we are going through such.
17:03Yes.
17:04Now, the one who is in front and to the left.
17:06Of course.
17:07Now, you see how much legal authority you have.
17:10I just put it as a note of color.
17:13And if you want to get married on the flight, I can marry you.
17:17Of course.
17:18I don't think you're asking me, but well.
17:20Has it ever happened to you?
17:24So, I put it as a note of color.
17:26But Carlos, I asked you before, experiences, let's go as a by-product of all this.
17:31Have you ever had an emergency landing of these characteristics?
17:34To have to follow or see what to do?
17:37No, but I've had a lot of approach abortions.
17:40Ah, that's what I was asking you.
17:42Yes, but listen to me.
17:44Look, I know you may not remember.
17:46About a year ago, in Aeroparque, a Flybondi plane was going to land.
17:52And it exceeded the maximum speed of the side wind component.
17:56It touched, and you also work with your ego, because you say,
18:01ah, but I put them the same, and I don't know.
18:03And the guy escaped.
18:05Bye.
18:06He flew again, waited for a turn, the wind calmed down and landed.
18:11Okay.
18:12So, let's put the ego aside, let's do things right.
18:15What happens if you have the right fuel?
18:18Well, those are evaluations you have to take.
18:20If you don't have fuel, you're going to land or land.
18:25But I think the most complex thing about these things,
18:28and I say it with a lot of respect and with the pain that the family has,
18:32because I know them and I understand them.
18:36Of the two things, you can come with a little more speed,
18:39but the issue of the touch in the middle of the runway, you have to see why you did it.
18:44That's what you still don't finish seeing why it could have happened.
18:48But it's me, and nothing else.
18:50And it can happen to anyone.
18:53In aviation, the error is an element that is used to learn.
18:58It is not detachable, it is precisely to say,
19:01I was wrong in this, come, I take it, I incorporate it,
19:05and I transmit it so that others don't do the same.
19:07Sure, sure.
19:08So, the first flight hour of the private pilot course,
19:11when you never got on a plane,
19:13they tell you, the plane lands in the first quarter of the runway.
19:18Sure.
19:19Like that.
19:20And it didn't happen here.
19:21Carlos, thank you for helping us think about what could have happened.
19:25Surely this will be seen in the near future.
19:29Just let me close with this, Guille.
19:31I always do it and I apologize.
19:33All these questions and others, I have my program,
19:36which is arrobaambientedevuelo, which goes via Instagram,
19:39and we do the whole sequence,
19:41perhaps calling a little to the responsibility from the aeronautical point of view,
19:47and in some way to try to explain what we have not been able to do so far.
19:50No, it's good.
19:51Arrobaambientedevuelo via Instagram.
19:53Arrobaambientedevuelo.
19:54Because there are many people who would surely be more interested.
19:57There are people out there who have some kind of aerophobia,
20:00and they are healing and taking courses.
20:04If this makes them take two steps back,
20:07then you will surely address these issues.
20:10So, thank you, Carlos.
20:12A big hug.
20:13A hug and happy holidays.