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00:00But it is a Tommie Tuesday here on Jones and Keefe on WEEI, Tommie Curran brought to you by
00:05D'Angelo's Sandwiches, New England sandwich shop and the sandwich shop at Jones and Keefe
00:09every single Tuesday. Flexcar, save thousands with your flexible car lease at flexcar.com
00:14and by Awaken 180 Weight Loss. If you're hearing this, chances are you're less than 20 minutes away
00:18from the closest Awaken 180, a once a week lunch break, a quick stop on your way home from work,
00:23minutes away from proven weekly weight loss at Awaken180weightloss.com. Tommie Curran,
00:28how we doing this week? Hello, fellas. Hello. I'm just looking at, I'm looking at your tears
00:33right now. Oh, good. Oh, what do you think? How do you feel about that? Stand by me is at the top
00:38because that was Christian Gonzalez's. I know you're a, you're an insider and you know everything
00:42that's going on with the team. We were able to suss that out of him yesterday. His favorite
00:45movie is Stand by Me. So that's why that's at the top. Okay. I don't know how you feel about the
00:50tears otherwise. It seems like you're not loving them if I'm reacting in real time. No, they're
00:55good. They're good. It's very interesting because I talked to a kid, Ben Baldwin,
00:59who does the tears, but he uses pro football focus and also a lot of his own analysis.
01:06I'm going to have a conversation with him on my pod. I really, I made the point this week that
01:10the Patriots are now sniffing around the hindquarters of mediocrity. They're still a bad
01:14team. Don't make that mistake. Don't you do it. But they are sniffing around the hindquarters
01:19of mediocrity, having gone two and two in their last four and actually being in a position where
01:24they could have won the four games. Realistically. Yeah. Well, so that's why you put them in the red
01:29zone to your job. I think we're an entertainment value. Yeah. We're a little more gut reaction
01:33than a pro football focus rankings or anything like that, but that's why we put them there.
01:36But I was going to reference your column this week and you just laid it out pretty nicely.
01:40Your point though is not only are they sniffing at the hindquarters of mediocrity,
01:44but that also raises the stake and, you know, puts a bigger target on some of the issues and
01:50second guesses that you may have for the coaching staff. So what jumped out to you in that regard
01:54this week? I guess what jumped out to me was the lack of a consistent philosophy that we're seeing
02:02from the Patriots, unfortunately. You know, what do you want to be? Who do you want to be?
02:08If you want to be a team that gambles well, then I would say being in a, you know,
02:15seven, nothing game or whatever, or whatever the score was when they allowed the zero blitz
02:22to get past the risk reward and that the Mayo talked about on Monday.
02:26So the risk in that is a touchdown, which is what happened. The reward is either a sack
02:32and incompletion or an interception, which probably isn't going to be a pick six.
02:36So is that risk worth the reward? No, it's not. It's a 16 year veteran thrown into an all pro
02:42wide receiver. And you had evidence from week two that even a decent quarterback in Gino Smith
02:48will find his all pro wide receiver and beat you if you leave it open in that way. That's the reason
02:54the Patriots really lost that Seattle game. And it's largely the reason that they lost the game
02:59against the Rams. You can't lose it all in one play in the first half. And there's, you know,
03:05people say, oh, there's a million plays after that. A lot traces back to that. But if you're
03:10going to put that kind of risk on something, shouldn't you on inside the five with an
03:18opportunity to narrow the gap with the Rams in the third quarter, instead of running Ramondre
03:26Stevenson once into the line, twice into the line and then kicking a field goal, get your athletic
03:32quarterback out on the edge on fourth down, perhaps or maybe even on third down when everybody on the
03:37planet knows that the Rams are going to stuff that run and try and make some kind of a play with
03:42him where it's run pass option. So to me, I don't see a cogent. We're aggressive. We're not aggressive.
03:50And I, I'm going to keep babbling here because I thought this was interesting. Remember in 2022,
03:54when the lions came in here and they lost 29 to nothing. Yeah. And they went down like 8 billion
03:59times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Seven times they were old for frigging seven. They went for it on fourth
04:05and nine. They were constantly in the Patriots into the field. Dan Campbell later explained,
04:09that's who we are. That's how we're going to play. Well, that's who they are now too. And they're
04:13probably the best team in football, at least as they're performing right now.
04:16Yeah. You know, I brought up, there was an example from Dan Campbell's first year and I think it was
04:21all, it might've been Joe judge's first or second year with the giants. And it was on the same day
04:25where, you know, neither team had barely won any games and it was fourth. It was like third and 20
04:32and Joe judge ran like a QB keeper to like get a little bit more room to punt.
04:37Meanwhile, you flip over to the lions game, same situation. It was like double reverse flea flicker
04:42pass to like a tackle. And you're like, look at these guys. And like, they both ended with like
04:46three or four wins. But after watching Sunday's game, the Patriots and the Rams, and I'm thinking,
04:52man, Gerard male's a lot closer to Joe judge than he is Dan Campbell.
04:56And it's interesting because if you look at the way that bill did things, he got to the Patriots
05:00with 25 years of head coaching experience. He came with Ernie Adams, his prep school pal,
05:05who shared a brain with him in a philosophical brain and could scout teams in a way that was
05:10more granular than anybody on the Patriot staff. He came with Charlie Weiss and Romeo Cornell,
05:14and they've developed Josh McDaniel. So the point I'm making is in a game,
05:19bill could be more malleable in addition, because he had a better team, but because he knew that
05:23everyone around him shared the same philosophy. Mayo is now in his first year as a head coach,
05:29his sixth year as a coach, he is attached to Evan Rothstein, who might be talented,
05:33might not be talented, no one knows. But he is his main conciliary in terms of game situations.
05:40And he's attached to Alex Van Pelt, who might be trying to, you know, at the same time,
05:44he's developing and showing some aggressiveness also has the roots of,
05:49I don't want to screw this up here either, in his past. And you have to Marcus Covington,
05:54who's spinning the wheel and trying to be aggressive. Like, you know, Bill could be,
05:58or Steve Belichick could be, or Mayo could be, or Flores could be, but he's also got
06:02Matt Patricia, having worked with him too. So like, you never know what you're going to get.
06:06You never know what you're going to get. And I think that as Phil Perry said, and it's not his
06:12quote, but if you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly. And I think the Patriots at three and
06:17eight should decide to be a grizzly. Don't frigging not go for two. Yeah. They're playing
06:24Tennessee. Some bears are the smallest bears. That's what they're playing. Like they're playing
06:27like a sun bear. I'm riled up. No, no, you should be a koala bear. Well, so you, you're, you're about
06:32to get into it there, Tom. There's three. Well, there's more than three, but three decisions.
06:37We talked about a lot yesterday on the show and it was not kicking a 54 yard field goal. It was,
06:45so just because of the wind or because of sly, why didn't you hate that one?
06:49So early in the game, do you really want to give Matt Stafford? It was a 51 49 thing. I was like,
06:54ah, kick it. You don't want to kick it. All right. Well, Barrett, you'll have a nice part.
06:57Well, we did. No, he didn't. That's true. That makes it a lot worse. The fourth net 22 on the
07:02punt fourth and goal from the two. That one's, that one's pretty egregious. That bothered me a
07:08great deal. Okay. Same. And then the other one was not having them repunt to Marcus Jones and
07:13being like, well, we got it at the 10 could be a lot worse than the 10. I'm like, could it be
07:17like the 10s? Not great. I, I, I honestly, that one slipped through my fingers and I
07:24forgot about that because I looked at it like, well, they just ran down the field too.
07:28Yeah. They're tuckered. Yeah. Good point. So, uh, yeah, those, those were decisions that
07:36absolutely deserve scrutiny. But again, you can go to the scheme decisions. There's different
07:41decisions, there's scheme decisions and game plan decisions, and there's situational decisions.
07:45And I think that the Patriots, um, when they make a game plan or scheme decision,
07:53I feel less inclined to criticize because there's information that they have at their
08:00disposal that we might not know, but in game decisions and innovation within the game,
08:07it gets, I don't mind second guessing. Like if you're going to run a fourth and one trick play,
08:14you want to put Jaylen Polk on the frigging field and Jayvon Baker.
08:18Let me just back it up. Let me just back it up. You're going to run a play. I don't want Jaylen
08:21Polk on the field. Nevermind trick plays. Yeah. He has twice as many penalties as he does catches
08:26since the month of December, September. So stop it. Why would you do that? That's a bad decision
08:34in the game, in the course of the game. If you want Christian Gonzalez to not shadow Puka Nakua
08:40or Cooper cup, because of something you see in your scheme that you think your fellows are going
08:44to be overmatched. If you don't do it that way, uh, it didn't work out, but I'm not sure it would
08:48have worked out better if you did it the other way. So I get it. You know what I'm saying?
08:52That that's the stuff that bothers me. Like the 80, 20 stuff, like having Jaylen Polk on the field,
08:58what's the likelihood they're going to execute that the most important play in the frigging game.
09:03Yeah. I would say, I would say low. He's Tommy current NBC sports. Boston joins us every Tuesday
09:07on a Tommy Tuesday here on Jones and Keith. Uh, I think you already answered this, but I'm going
09:12to ask you again, your flex of the week brought to you by flex car, ditch the dealership and save
09:17thousands with flex car. It sounded like your flex of the game was the Cooper cup touchdown,
09:21second play of the second half. Well, I like to go with the Patriots flex.
09:26This is why I should ask and not, uh, editorialize. Yeah. So what was it? No,
09:30I love that because we have an open forum here between us. And I think that we all share kind
09:34of a brain and the way we look at the game and we might have different opinions on it,
09:38but I think that we all see it the same way to a degree. And, but anyway, I like that one,
09:43but I'm going to look at the Patriots and say, the flex of the game was Drake may on the first
09:46series of the game, seeing a safety blitz addressing it and throwing to the player in
09:53the perfect spot, reading, diagnosing, throwing it 30 for 40 for two 82 with three drops. Um,
10:00he's just really frigging good and he gets no protection and, uh, it's, it's pretty astounding
10:05how well he's playing and it's more than a snapshot now. Um, so that would be my flex
10:11of the game. What did you guys think of the pick? Oh, I think that was all. I put it on him. I put
10:18it on me. I do too. You're a former college wide receiver. That's right. Rich key. Catch everything.
10:23That's my philosophy. But no, that was behind him. There was nothing but green grass ahead of
10:31him. Yeah, no, he hits him, hits him in stride and who knows what's going to happen on that play.
10:35So yeah, no, that was on, on Drake may, but I think most people are to the point where,
10:40you know, he can finish the game that way, but you still look at him like, ah, this guy's better
10:44than I thought. Like, look, look at the fun that he's sort of, uh, brought to the table, but
10:48clearly the, the turnovers are the one major thing in his game that he has to get cleaned up.
10:53Right? Like everything else. I don't coming into like people like, Oh, his footwork is this on
10:56that. I'm like, I don't know. It looks pretty good. Now he's able to get in and out of the
10:59pocket. He hits guys in the hands. They might catch it. They might not catch it, but it is just
11:04some of these turnovers, which I think you see with almost every rookie quarterback.
11:09The only turnover we can look at the Chicago turnover, but after we hear his explanation,
11:15he was trying to throw it out of bounds and it didn't get there. So he wasn't intending
11:19to throw it into a team meeting. So that one I look at and say, let's just throw it out of
11:23bounds. You dummy. Um, but the only one he looked truly like a rookie rookie, didn't know what he
11:28was looking at. Like the only one he didn't know what he was looking at was who the hell they
11:32throw it over the middle to Houston. Yeah. Well, Houston, Houston, he had some bad picks in his
11:37first start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that one was a bad one. The one down the middle where
11:43Polk surprise. Um, that was a pick that was, that was, but I look at all the picks
11:52differently and say, okay, well, it's a downfield throw in the last drive of the
11:55game. You don't want that. Do you want to try and win the game? It's the one thing
11:58you can't do at that point. Um, but he's just, he's not confused. He's not Sam Donald seeing
12:06ghosts. He's not running around with no concept of what he wants to do. I'll, uh, Tony Richardson,
12:12Anthony, I keep calling him Tony, the old Kansas city fullback. He's a pro baller that guy. Nice
12:18player. Uh, but he's, he's a good player. He's fun to watch. Uh, Tom, I'm curious. I know, uh,
12:26Andy and, and Christian asked you about this last week. Is Alex van Pelt safe?
12:30I think so. Based on the returns that he has given through this portion of the season.
12:40Yeah. I developed may we've talked about it. They talked about it. Um, I do think that the
12:46onus is on the craft to every single day. They show up, figure out how to make their team better.
12:51I looked at it today. The top five salaries among, um, quarterbacks belong to, uh, Trevor Lawrence,
12:59Dak Prescott to a tongue of Iowa and Joe burrow. And then there's a Jordan love thrown in there.
13:05The combined record between those five teams is 1944. They're all making $53 million average APY
13:12or above. So the bottom line that I'm trying to make is you got to get the most out of may
13:18by the time he is a fifth year player and you start paying through the frigging nose.
13:23So everybody has to be good right now. So I don't blame the Patriots, um, or ownership.
13:29We're scrutinizing that and trying to decide, do we want Alexander Pelt to be the guy
13:33who leads us going forward? And I think that by the end of the year, we'll conclude.
13:38Yeah. He's going to be the guy, you know, the Taekwon Thornton era came to an end.
13:42And, uh, you know, he's one of those guys. He's an example where very early in his tenure,
13:47there was a lot of people being like, ah, this ain't it. And it's going to be a bus.
13:51You'd have pushback say, ah, it's too early to call him a bust. And then he ended up being
13:54a bus to, you know, and to kill Harry, same thing, to kill Harry early on, there were people
13:58saying bus like, oh, let's give him a minute. Nope. He was actually a bust. So I circle all
14:02the way back to Jalen Polk. It's very, very early in his career, but he's actually trending even in
14:09a worse path than Taekwon Thornton and to kill Harry. It feels like, yeah, it 1 million percent
14:15does. The difference may be that they have Drake may a quarterback and he's young and he's in the
14:20same draft class and it could help. Let me just roll through for the hell of it. Second round
14:25picks like Taekwon. What a group Jordan, Jordan Richards in 2015, Cyrus Jones in 2016,
14:33um, Duke Dossett in 2018. They didn't have one. And Joe, one Williams in 2019,
14:40Kyle Duggar and Josh, who changed 2020, Tristan Barmore in 21, Taekwon Thornton in 22 and Keone
14:46white in 23. No, it's wide out. Don't draft wide outs and corners anywhere else. You're all right.
14:50Like you can go all the way around three. Uh, no, no, come on. Yeah, go ahead.
14:58Gino Grissom, Joe Tooney, Kobe Brissett. Yeah, right. Yeah. Nice part. Antonio Garcia. No less.
15:06So Derek, where was Antonio Garcia? Uh, chase Widovich. No. Damien Harris. You had to be
15:11confused. Not pretty Jennings, Devon, Ossie, Ossie, and Dalton King, Ronnie Perkins,
15:21Marcus Jones, and Mark. I'm like, let me get into the first rounders, which would begin with
15:28Malcolm Brown in 2015. Um, but just a low yield from the top of your draft. Low yields. There is
15:35absolutely a low yield from the top of the draw. I saw a wild stat. You want to hear this stat?
15:39Oh, sure. Yeah. I saw that thing. The pro bowl one. Yeah. Somebody made a graphic. I don't even
15:43know who it is. Uh, pick them. I don't know what it is. NFL pick them draft picks that became pro
15:49bowlers since 2014. So 10 years, your draft picks, what percent made the pro bowl? Do you want to
15:56take a stab at what, what percent? Uh, 10% for the Patriots, 3.3, which ranks where Jones.
16:06Oh, that's gotta be 32, 32nd, 32nd, the lions, 19.8% of their draft picks become pro bowlers.
16:15I mean, that's insane. I don't think you can expect 20%. 10% is more kind of in the air. 8%
16:20would be good. 3.3%. Yeah. Not great. So, but Tom, I would say that's also tuning in Mac Jones.
16:26That's it. Yeah. Mac Jones should even count that Jones should, that should not count. But so, but
16:32what's most disconcerting is that a lot of that's bill and build and not draft. Well,
16:35and I don't think anybody's arguing that the problem is outside of Drake may, it looks like
16:39that's continuing with this year's draft class. I know, I know it's early to just shut it down,
16:43but it looks like it's continuing. That's, that's what's terrifying. I blame bill for
16:46all those drafts, but it might not have just been bill. It might've been growing wolf too.
16:51On 1 million percent, they have skated. And I don't think the early returns on their command
17:00of what they're looking at is great. I mean, this was Taekwon thought and was drafted in
17:05macro said, if you want to get faster, get fast players. Well, you could have,
17:10you know, drafted skates. Nehemiah. I don't even know who the sprinters that are anymore.
17:14Who's the YouTuber who, who raised the Bailey? No, no, no. The YouTube, the, uh, uh, I love
17:20speed or something like that. Yeah. Who is that guy? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That guy. I'm
17:23sure he's got Houston McTare. Do you know about on that one? Dump it. I need to use
17:29McTare with a sprinter in the late seventies. I'm going to send you that. All right. Send
17:33you Houston. No, I'm more like I show speed on YouTube. Carl Lewis. I can get you there.
17:39Uh, Michael Johnson was very fast. Oh yeah. Uh, auto bolded guy began with a queue.
17:45Oh, I don't know that guy. Q there's a bunch of sprinters. Yeah. Oh, the hundred meter dash was
17:51where it was at for a while. Are you thinking of a Theo from the challenge? He was a British
17:55sprinter. Is that who you're thinking of? No, no, you idiot. No. All right. I'm going to find
18:02quit Quentin. All right. Bye. Let us know. Thank you very much, Tom. Oh, bye. Okay.
18:07That's all. We'll talk to you soon, Tom. Uh, Tommy, go on a high. I got an appointment. You
18:15know what? I don't mind that more, more guests should do that. You say, okay, I'm out. I'm done
18:19or done here. I've got nothing else to bring to the table. No. Theo from the challenge was a
18:24sprinter on the British. I don't remember. I thought you were talking about Theo Vaughn.
18:28That was on road rules. One or two challenges. Now a massive podcast now. Oh yeah. The show's a
18:38big show. Yeah. No, no. Theo from the challenge. There was a pretty, I also believe he now has a,
18:42uh, a glass. No, you idiot. A glass. I think is what he has now. Theo Vaughn is a glass.
18:49No, no. Theo from the challenge. Well, he was a Theo from the challenge. He's probably actually,
18:53it's the first Theo from the challenge. That's a good, he was probably the original. He was on
18:55battle of the sexes. That's a good point. I want to say. Yeah, no, it's true.