Alistair Grant talks to Katharine Hay, The Scotsman's rural affairs correspondent, about her epic walk around Scotland as she clocks up more than 1,000 miles on the road. From St Kilda to the Borders, the east coast to the west, Katharine talks about the highs and lows - and what she has learned along the way.
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TravelTranscript
00:00The Steamy, a politics podcast from The Scotsman.
00:13Hello and welcome to The Steamy, The Scotsman's politics podcast. I'm Alistair Grant, The
00:17Scotsman's political editor, and today I'm joined by a very special guest, Catherine
00:21Hay, The Scotsman's rural affairs correspondent, who for the last six months plus has been
00:26on an epic walk around Scotland, covering more than 1,000 miles and taking in almost
00:31every corner of the country. Catherine swapped her desk for the road back in March, and in
00:36the months since, her dispatches from the towns, cities, fields, mountains, moors of
00:41Scotland have become must-reads for anyone hoping to understand the country in which
00:46we live. Her epic adventure is, I think anyway, one of the most interesting things happening
00:51in Scottish journalism at the moment, and has also allowed Catherine to gain a real
00:54insight into some of the biggest issues facing Scotland's rural communities, from the borders
00:59to the highlands and islands, the kind of insight you would never get from sitting at
01:04a desk in Glasgow or Edinburgh. Catherine, can you explain exactly what you're doing,
01:09I suppose, and why you decided to do this?
01:12Hello. So yeah, before I set off, I said I wanted to do this walk really to just change
01:20my approach to journalism, to storytelling. And what was particularly sort of apparent
01:28when I did a bit of research about rural Scotland and where I wanted to go is I came across
01:32this figure saying that, you know, rural Scotland takes up 98% of the country. And so sitting
01:38in Edinburgh, in maybe the sort of area where it's 2% of Scotland, reporting on rural areas
01:44just didn't really feel like I was getting a good picture of them. I mean, I grew up
01:48in a rural area of Scotland, but it just was important to me to get out and see some of
01:53the communities that I've been writing about and will be writing about. And yeah, and I've
01:59really kind of answered what I was hoping for, which is getting a very different perspective
02:03of places when you really see them and talk to people kind of on the ground. But also
02:09I can't ignore there's a personal reason behind it as well. I love walking, I love travelling.
02:14So to be able to combine, you know, work with those things, but obviously for it to actually
02:20make sense was a big part of it as well. And so yeah, I was really glad when the Scotsman
02:27said yes. And also I think it's really helped the paper sort of reach communities that we
02:32might not have reached if we were just reporting on environmental and rural affairs just from
02:39Edinburgh. So yeah, I guess it's probably still more reasons as to why I've done it
02:45that will come out at the end, because I haven't quite finished yet. And sometimes I think
02:48with these long distance adventures, a lot comes at the end when you're sort of finished.
02:52But that's my thoughts on it at the moment.
02:55And it's kind of a big question, I guess. But what have you learned about Scotland along
02:59the way? And has your perspective on anything changed?
03:03Yeah, I mean, just straight up, as a woman on my own camping, most of the time, throughout
03:11the whole trip, I mean, Scotland is a very safe country. And I can also 100% say that
03:17a very welcoming country as well. And we hear that quite a lot, that Scottish people are
03:20very friendly and welcoming. You know, I've met lots of visitors and tourists as well
03:24who've, whilst I've been walking, you know, you meet a lot of travellers. And yeah, it's
03:30an incredibly friendly place. And one of the few places which I hadn't sort of put the
03:35two together, but one of the few places where you can camp wherever you want, and you're
03:39not going to have the risk of being, you know, mauled by a dangerous animal or poisonous
03:44insect or something. Well, this depends how you view midges, they're a pain. But yeah,
03:50it's as a whole, it's an amazing country to travel on foot and with a tent for that reason.
03:58Also, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people ask me sort of, you know, what do you think of like,
04:05what's been your favourite place? And what I've noticed is how different the regions are. I mean,
04:14I know it's been, well, it's been seven months plus now, but I haven't obviously, I think you
04:19could do six months in each region alone, but they really are different. They all have such
04:24different needs. Maybe it's stating the obvious, but to me, it was just quite eye-opening. Also,
04:28just the kind of history and culture of each place, and how it's influenced how people in
04:35places decide on things today. One being, for example, community buyouts. I think in some areas,
04:42I haven't actually been to Egg yet, but I know like Egg or some places in the Outer Hebrides,
04:46you know, community buyout feels really important and makes a lot of sense. And
04:51whereas in some areas, I'd say kind of on the East Coast, there are some areas where
04:56you still have quite a lot of the, well, I'm just thinking of a man in particular, Dee Ward.
05:02He's chairman of Scottish Land and Estates, and he has, you know, he has an estate that's,
05:06you just wouldn't want to kind of disrupt the balance there, and community buyout wasn't such
05:10a conversation in that area, for example. So it's just quite interesting to see kind of how people's
05:17politics are and what their needs are for the environment. It's just very different. Scotland
05:24is a real patchwork, and I think it's just important to kind of remember that each place
05:28does really have its own bespoke needs. We often talk about how frustrated Scotland is with
05:37Westminster. Rural Scotland is very frustrated with the Scottish government, and I think they
05:42often want there to be much more nuanced policy, nuanced attention given to individual places,
05:49rather than it kind of being a blanket approach. So yeah, that's the big thing that I've knew
05:55already, obviously, through my line of work, but have definitely seen a lot just firsthand.
05:59That's interesting. I mean, what are some of the, I guess, the biggest issues you've come across?
06:04And from what you're saying there, it seems like, you know, I imagine that different places have
06:08very different issues on the go, but is there anything that you've come across that kind of,
06:13you know, you find it everywhere, for example, you know, connectivity, transport problems,
06:17all those kind of things? Yeah, I mean, I guess I've had a small taster of the transport,
06:23because I've been walking, so it's not, I've just sort of, it's all been bypassing me. But
06:29I did, a couple of times I've come back to Edinburgh to get better kit, or I met up with a
06:34friend in Inverness, and transport straight up, I mean, the buses in the Highlands, and certainly
06:39in some rural areas are very expensive. You're talking about a 20 quid flat fee for whatever
06:44distance you want to travel, sort of, you know, north or west of Inverness. And it was, yeah,
06:51for anyone who's not, not from there, or just visiting, it's really expensive. But something
06:58that I have really noticed, I'm on Sky right now. And even in, you know, coming to the end of October,
07:07tourism is, well, we all know Sky is a very popular place for people to visit. And yeah,
07:12over tourism, I guess it depends how you define it. Maybe some people don't think we've quite
07:17reached over tourism, like they have in other countries in Europe, like we've seen in Spain,
07:22with lots of protests. But I would say Scotland is experiencing that, to quite a big degree,
07:29certainly in the Highlands. I've walked the North Coast 500. And I'm now on Sky, and also been to
07:36quite big, popular tourist sites in the Outer Hebrides. And yeah, just recently wrote about
07:43Calanish stones on Lewis, I mean, problems with erosion at the site. It's obviously an incredibly
07:48important Neolithic monument, you know, 5000 year old stones, or the site itself is 5000 years old.
07:56And there's just not much management around kind of controlling the number of people going in. And
08:03they've just allowed this deep port that's torn away. So you've got bigger cruise ships coming in,
08:08but there's no sort of, there doesn't seem to be much in terms of mitigation efforts on the
08:15actual island when it comes to numbers coming in. So I mean, that is something I have seen,
08:22certainly in popular tourist areas is that the numbers are being encouraged, but there isn't
08:28much in terms of infrastructure and support towards communities having to manage and cope with these
08:36numbers. I mean, a prime example is actually on Sky, down at the ferry pools, where I went just
08:41over the weekend just to see kind of what it's like. And yeah, it's still really busy,
08:46even at this time of year. You know, the community ended up having to pay and create a car park,
08:52because that's how they got in. Great. I mean, obviously, communities do come together in these
08:57kind of situations. But the fact that they weren't, you know, that wasn't something that the
09:01council helped with. And I gather a local councillor actually said that it's up to the community now to
09:07fix the road, which I think wasn't met with much. Yeah, that was quite badly received, I think,
09:14because they've done a lot to try and help, you know, this beautiful area of Sky and protect it.
09:19So yeah, there's just a few examples of where over tourism has definitely,
09:26is definitely showing up in Scotland. And kind of linked to that is issues of depopulation
09:34and housing in rural areas as well. So Dave Richardson, who's part of NC500 Limited,
09:44he's head of kind of the marketing. He said that, you know, the NC500, the money that's going into,
09:52you know, coming from tourism is going to go into communities and help support communities.
09:57But people have taken issue with that, because it, in fact, what a lot of what I've seen is that
10:03because these areas are popular for tourists, you know, we've seen it already happening for years,
10:08but these areas become popular areas for then holiday lets. And then, you know, the local housing
10:13is sold to become a second home. And so you end up actually losing a lot of kind of local families,
10:21and they become holiday lets. So you have sort of empty houses in winter. And,
10:26and yeah, that does contribute from what I've seen and from what people have told me to people
10:31just leaving the area, it's too expensive. So then that kind of feeds into depopulation. But
10:37also just, yeah, turning somewhere into a kind of place for tourists to come and look at and take a
10:41photo of, you know, you start to sort of worry about the culture of a place and slightly, yeah,
10:47forget maybe that people actually live there. And, you know, people have day to day jobs that have
10:51nothing to do with tourism. So even if the tourism's going well, it doesn't mean that everybody's
10:56benefiting necessarily. So, yeah, it's, it's quite a stark issue in rural Scotland. I wouldn't say
11:06everywhere, but certainly in parts of Caithness, Sutherland. But I'm yet to see it. But there are
11:15examples where like on Egg and some of the Western community buyout areas where they're actually
11:22doing quite a lot to kind of go against the grain and they're proving that they can kind of
11:26fight depopulation in some areas. So, as I said earlier, like each place really does have quite
11:32unique kind of circumstances when it comes to the communities in them.
11:37Yeah, yeah. It's something I've noticed, actually. I mean, I grew up to be able to Hebrides
11:41every year. My mum's from Harris. And I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I'm not an expert in this at all,
11:46not up there enough to truly notice. But it definitely seems like tourism has become such
11:51a much bigger thing in the time that I've been going up. It's really changed the communities.
11:55There seems to be a lot more holiday lets, a lot less locals. But then there's also been a
11:59community buyout in Harris as well. So, there's that kind of factor coming into it. But it's
12:05really interesting. I mean, I know you said that everyone always asks you this, and it's
12:08every place is different. But is there a place you've been that is your favourite? You're kind of?
12:14Well, I'm a bit of a bird lover, and I've always wanted to go to St Kilda. And it was a bit of a
12:20unexpected visit, to be honest, which I know sounds a bit unusual, given it's like 40 miles
12:24out at sea. But we were out looking for, well, I very last minute, a lot of a lot of the things
12:30have been quite last minute, because you're sort of walking. And you know, each day, you don't
12:33really know what's going to happen, whether the weather, whether you can get somewhere. But
12:37I emailed Angus Campbell, who is the only man in Scotland to be given a fishing licence for tuna,
12:44for bluefin tuna, last year. He sadly didn't get it this year. And I say sadly, just because it's
12:49sort of, you know, for him, he, he's seeing potential kind of commercial opportunities
12:54there. Obviously, there's this other side to bluefin tuna where, yes, they're making a comeback
13:01to Scottish waters, which is great, but we need to sort of, you know, they obviously disappeared
13:05at one point. And it's good to be mindful of, yeah, their population numbers. And anyway,
13:11he still has a licence for catch and release. And I just asked if I could join him one day,
13:17if he happened to be going out. And luckily, the next day, he said he had two scientists from Exeter
13:22University going out with him. So he said, Oh, you can just come with us. So we went and it was
13:27their last day of trying to find bluefin tuna, we sadly didn't find any, but because it was quite,
13:33you know, a difficult task trying to find them, it meant we did travel quite far. And we went all
13:37the way up to St Kilda. And there was just this moment where, I mean, I don't normally have
13:42suffered from seasickness, but it's obviously a very different story in the North Atlantic,
13:47when it's like autumn, and like a rainy October day. So I was sat in sort of inside the boat,
13:53just kind of closing my eyes just having a moment because I really I mean, I was actually the only
13:57one with the skipper who didn't throw up, but suddenly opened my eyes and we were just right,
14:03I just looked out the window. And that was one of the islands, I think it's Harsha,
14:07that's the right pronunciation of St Kilda. And yeah, just gannets flying everywhere. And then
14:12I went straight out to look at it, sort of thinking, why didn't anyone wake me up?
14:18And then, you know, minke whale just went straight past us. And yeah, it was just an
14:21incredible, it was just what I imagined if I was gonna have the opportunity to go out there. And
14:26just I think what made it more spectacular was that Angus is sort of a man of few words,
14:31and he didn't really say anything. We just sort of were there. So yeah, that was incredible. And
14:39I will have him to thank for that. Yeah, forever. So really hard though, to get, you know,
14:45decent pictures and photos, because the swells that day were just insane. And then this little
14:49fishing boat, so you'll kind of try to get a picture of the crew, but they're all kind of
14:53at one side of the boat. But yeah, no, that was really quite a special day.
15:01I'm just trying to think if there's, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of, as much as places and,
15:08you know, Scotland's mountains and scenery is just, it does take your breath away. You do
15:14just sort of stand there, like when you kind of suddenly come across, you know, a beautiful
15:18mountain or a view ahead. But I have really enjoyed just the very kind of intimate moments with
15:25people from, you know, kind of total strangers, but who sort of really welcome you into their
15:31kind of home or, yeah, you kind of get a little snapshot of a place just through talking to
15:39somebody. Like in Dumfries and Galloway, I remember just sitting in a pub and just kind
15:45of winding down, I think it was, it must have been at the end of the week. And yeah, this girl
15:50just started kind of telling, reciting off by heart, a kind of poem she'd written about the
15:56waltzes and the showmen that come to Dumfries. And it was, you know, it was really such an
16:02effective piece of writing she'd done. And she's just sitting there like, kind of reciting it and
16:07yeah, and telling me all about the kind of regions connection. And it was just, yeah, I like those
16:11moments. Or when I arrived in Stornoway on Lewis and a local musician just kind of laid a fire with
16:17Pete and then started playing a song on the guitar. And, you know, these little moments where
16:22when you sort of imagine arriving somewhere with the people you'd hoped to meet, and then that
16:26actually happens. That's kind of, yeah, that's happened quite a lot, which is nice.
16:30So how does it work? Because obviously you're camping a lot of the time, but then you've spent
16:35a lot of time, you know, being invited into people's homes. Do you get talking to them and
16:39then explain what you're doing? And they're just like, oh, why don't you come and stay with us?
16:42Yeah, yeah. Often, I mean, the job, it's great because you're interviewing people. And then,
16:46you know, after the interview, you just have a bit of chat or before even, and they just say,
16:50like, oh, my God, you're camping, like, no, no, no, please, like, we have a spare room or,
16:54you know, or they're welcome to stay in the garden. Sometimes, you know, I've got a budget for
16:58just if, you know, things are really bad, like weather, or if I'm really stuck, I can just get a
17:02hostel or a hotel. So through that, particularly the hostels, obviously, you just meet other people.
17:09And in that case, on Lewis, it was the owner's father who was just kind of hanging around and
17:17playing some music. So, but yeah, and then, well, on Skye, when I got to Skye, the Storm Ashley
17:26decided to arrive. So, yeah, I was just in the town and some locals just said, oh,
17:32we've got like a spare place to put you up if you want to go there. So yeah, it's,
17:38I think, in some ways, yeah, being, again, being sort of, well, I think anyone on their own
17:45travelling, you're vulnerable, but perhaps being a woman, I don't know. And just, you know, you
17:51look at me, and I've got quite a big bag. And I just often look a bit lost anyway. And I think
17:55people just tend to kind of, I mean, at one point in Gatehouse of Fleet, a man, I was just walking
18:00down the street, and he was probably about, I don't know, his late 80s. And he just said,
18:04you look lost. And I was like, oh, I'm just trying to find somewhere to pitch the tent. And then he
18:08just, you know, put me up for two days. And that was it. That was it. So yeah, it's quite amazing
18:13how just, if you're a bit open to it, you know, people just are very kind of there and will bring
18:19you in. But I'd say, yeah, most of the time, it's been camping. But yeah, a good chunk of it has
18:25been just being put up by people. And obviously, I mean, I live in Scotland, I know some people
18:32around. So sometimes through contacts as well, and just through friends, someone's been able to
18:37just come and pick me up or put me up for the night.
18:41Has there been any experience that surprised you? Or any kind of place you went to that took
18:45you aback?
18:47Yeah, well, the first one that comes to mind was Windfarm Alley down in Dumfries and Galloway,
18:52because I'd just been in a town talking to sort of a campaign group who are quite,
18:57well, anti the, not so much some of the renewables, but just the amount of windfarms
19:04that are going up in Scotland, particularly in the south of Scotland. And I really went
19:09through Windfarm Alley expecting there to be sort of a lot of, to be quite kind of bleak and
19:15for residents in the area to really not like it. I mean, I write quite often about the issues that
19:20some communities have with these windfarms going up. And I'm very aware of that. And this is why
19:26it kind of took me by surprise, because not only did the birdlife was amazing around the windfarms,
19:31which I thought was kind of, I mean, I felt very reassured. I was like, well, that's, that's good
19:36that obviously, you know, some of these, that nature's still doing all right, in some ways,
19:40if it's, you know, even if it's just some birds. But the other thing was, just the community that
19:46lived kind of directly at the foot of this particular kind of group of windfarms were
19:53quite positive, really. I mean, there was a bit of an awareness of like, we get these sort of token
19:58gestures to kind of keep us quiet, which is the community benefit fund that comes from these huge
20:03companies. But yeah, I mean, to be honest, I went and had some food in the pub that they had the
20:08money to do up. And it was great. It was, you know, they've got, they had somebody who's been
20:14able to, so a lot of post offices and things have shut down. I've noticed a lot of villages and
20:18towns, they've really lost their services, like banks and post office. But this little kind of
20:24town was like a little haven, it still had, you know, money to keep somebody full time in the post
20:29office in the shop. So yeah, it was just kind of, it just sort of turned all on its head for me,
20:35going there having had this kind of, you know, understandable, like, pushback against these
20:41turbines from from a campaign group. And then with, you know, in my head, I was really expecting
20:47to kind of find quite like angry and upset residents, and, you know, quite sort of desert,
20:51basically, for nature. But, and also, interestingly, the farmers, I went, I walked to all the houses
20:59that were literally sort of in the valley, and in the glen where the turbines were. And again,
21:05the farmers, even the farmers who weren't getting money for having turbines on the land,
21:12they said, it's better than forestry, because it's not dark, it's not encouraging predators
21:17to come and live here to threaten the lambs. So yeah, even the people living in the hills
21:24were sort of, yeah, not too bothered. So that was quite an interesting perspective, which I
21:29didn't think I was going to get, but I did get so. Yeah, it's interesting, you're talking about
21:35going through, you know, towns and villages and seeing a lot of post offices closed. I mean,
21:38when you pass through, what's your impression of the kind of the state of towns and villages
21:43in Scotland in terms of if they're thriving or struggling? Yeah, I think on the whole,
21:49I would say struggling big time, I would say that they are like the high streets are just,
21:55there's only just been a few places where I've walked into towns. And I thought, wow, this is
21:59kind of, you know, it's noticeable how the energy is up and people are out and about. And there's
22:04kind of obviously a good flow, but of people going to the shops and things. But yeah, a lot
22:10of the time, like, I mean, Girvan and Ayrshire on the West Coast really sticks out in my head
22:15just now, like just, I mean, every second window is to let or boarded up or there's like a cafe,
22:22a couple of pubs. I mean, and this used to be somewhere that was like a kind of, you know,
22:26busy, bustling holiday spot. You can see there's the kind of weird sort of outline of like where,
22:33you know, down on the front by the sea where people obviously used to go and,
22:37well, just spend time on a holiday and, you know, these big hotels and,
22:42but yeah, it's just empty. And I think economy, business is really struggling in rural towns.
22:48It's been, yeah, and the fact that banks and post offices, quite essential services are
22:53closing as well. You can really see the impact that's having on some of these areas.
22:58Yeah. Yeah. And throughout your seven plus months, what has been the,
23:03your lowest moment, the worst moment, the moment where you're like, what on earth am I doing?
23:07Oh God, I'm just wondering if, yeah, I was trying to think about this earlier because
23:11it's again, that's another question that people ask. I mean, I have a few,
23:15it's quite hard to pick one, but one that was really, yeah, I just, I just didn't know what
23:22to do was between, somewhere between Inverness and Helmsdale on that stretch. I think it was
23:28near Olness, Olness. Anyway, lost my tent poles. And I'd also unfortunately just been scammed.
23:38So I didn't have my bank, my bank card was cancelled, so I had to chuck it. And I do have
23:45a sister who lives near Inverness, but she was away. So just trying to coordinate how I'm going
23:50to get a card to me to get money out, how I'm going to get money out anyway. And then spending
23:56the evening trying to put up my tent with sticks was not fun. And sleeping was even worse. So that
24:03was a pretty horrific night. I mean, I kind of was able to see the humour in it a little bit,
24:07but it was just awful. And luckily, yeah, well, actually, it was a, it was a Monday, the next day.
24:14And luckily, work let me have the day off just, just to kind of get myself together.
24:21Yeah, so that's quite a low moment. I mean, it didn't, it didn't rain, it was, it was just cold,
24:25and it was just damp. So that was pretty bad. But also, because I didn't have any money, I thought,
24:31well, I did have some food, which was good. But I just thought, I'll just try and retrace my steps
24:36and see if I can find the tent poles. And I know that sounds a bit crazy, because it's kind of like
24:40trying to find a needle in a haystack, because you're just you just walk back, you know, I mean,
24:44I'd walked technically sort of, yeah, almost like a day. So I don't know how many miles, maybe like
24:51eight miles or something. But anyway, long story short, I actually found them, they were just
24:56hanging on a tree. And whether somebody had found them and put them up there, or whether, yeah,
25:01I'd walked through and they'd just been plucked off my rucksack or something by a branch. I have
25:06no idea to this day. But yeah, I have to admit, I did cry when I saw them, because it's been a terrible
25:12night. And yeah, so that was, that was a kind of low point, but that kind of, yeah, turned around.
25:19Another time was losing my work phone when I hadn't backed up any of the stuff for a while.
25:25So that was, yeah, I've done that twice. Stornoway, I got a bus back to Stornoway
25:31after reporting on the sort of over tourism at some of the main sites, because I wanted to go
25:38and visit a few of them. And yeah, left my phone on the bus. And obviously, you know, it's a smaller
25:44island, there's not that many bus drivers, it was obviously going to be fine. But in the moment,
25:48my heart sunk. And I knew when he drove off, I'd left it on the bus, and I was trying to chase
25:52after it. And it was just, then had to call about eight different numbers to try and get a hold of
25:57this bus driver on the island. But yeah, and I think just generally, I mean, it's just hard
26:08to deal with things like if you're not feeling very well, or I don't know, I mean, with work,
26:13like if the story hasn't gone well, or I remember, I really upset a community group
26:20with an article that I'd done, it was, it was difficult, you were sort of pointing out,
26:24pointing out on sort of uncomfortable truths. And anyway, and got a bit of pushback. And,
26:30you know, when you're kind of sat there on your own, and at that point, I was camping and
26:33not in a very nice spot. And yeah, you just you feel very alone. And obviously, colleagues and
26:39friends and family, whatever, they're at the other end of the phone. But there's something about kind
26:42of, yeah, not being very comfortable at times. And yeah, you just sometimes maybe problems can
26:49feel a little bit bigger, because you're quite isolated. But then, I guess, in a way,
26:56just getting up the next day, and, you know, having to get on and just find somewhere to sleep,
27:02find something to eat, find somewhere to work, it kind of then like shifts you back into a
27:06perspective. So, but yeah, it's, it's, it's not super easy. When like, yeah, things go wrong with
27:13work, or when you're on the road, it's harder to pick yourself up, I think, sometimes.
27:19Yeah, that's an interesting point. Yeah, yeah. Because I think, you know, in journalism,
27:23when a story goes wrong, or when someone doesn't like it, you can kind of, you've got the camaraderie
27:28of your colleagues to, to help you. And if you don't have that, I suppose, you do feel quite
27:32isolated. Yeah. But has this whole adventure, this whole kind of walk been easier or harder
27:40than you imagined when you set out back in spring?
27:44Um, I think, to be honest, because I didn't really know what I was getting myself in for,
27:49because I've never done anything like this before. I don't really know, it's almost,
27:53it's almost quite hard to answer that, because I'm trying to think and trying to put myself in my head
27:59before I left. I think I probably was a little bit naive, thinking it would be much easier to just,
28:09you know, find somewhere to work every day. Whereas, yeah, in some places, obviously,
28:16there is just, you know, you have to walk a long, long way to get to a community centre or a pub or
28:22a cafe to be able to sort of charge. So even actually, when I was on the west coast of Scotland,
28:28I actually just booked annual leave, because I knew I was just not gonna get to places in time
28:33to kind of charge. And so yeah, that's all been quite a big juggling act. And I think it's been
28:39a little bit harder than I thought. But having said that, it's still been possible. So yeah,
28:46I think, on balance, it's probably, I think the more rural areas, I mean, it's all kind of mostly
28:54been rural areas, but certainly kind of, you know, parts of the highlands and the west coast and the
28:59Outer Hebrides, where there are kind of long stretches, and, you know, you're dealing with,
29:03like, quite awkward opening times as well. That I sort of had, it was slightly lured myself into
29:10a false sense of security, starting on the east, and going down sort of, you know, into, you know,
29:15East Lothian, the borders, even Dumfries and Galloway, to some degree, although that was
29:19quite rural in some areas, because, you know, quite far, all the way down the east, you've
29:22kind of like Fife and Angus, there's places to go, there's quite a few kind of towns and villages,
29:27quite close to each other. But yeah, I think I didn't quite anticipate how, like,
29:33just had to do quite long days, or walk quite late in the evening, when, yeah, in the highlands,
29:40when there just wasn't much, you just had to kind of pray that you would come across an inn or
29:45something, which, you know, which did happen, amazingly. Or sometimes, a couple of occasions,
29:50I've just knocked on someone's door and said, like, do you mind if I just charge my laptop
29:53for an hour? And then it kind of would see me, see me through. So, yeah.
29:59What's your, I mean, considering you've done these huge stretches, particularly, you know,
30:03some of the west coast of Scotland can be can be really, really harsh. And what's your advice for
30:08people to, for surviving the weather for surviving the conditions, if they're going out walking in
30:12Scotland, do you have any tips to, to give them?
30:16My first thought goes straight to the socks that I have, because I haven't had a blister.
30:21I haven't had a single blister this whole time, which I think is kind of amazing. And I really
30:25think it is the sealskins, which is the brand sealskins with the Zed socks. I mean, have some
30:32really good socks. It's like essential, because, yeah, if your feet are sad, you just will be sad.
30:38Because they obviously keep you standing up, really. So I really think I've been able to do
30:44the distances because I haven't had any pain. I mean, I've had pain in terms of, you know,
30:48tired feet from walking. Also, I mean, I haven't, I'd love to do, you know, a trip around Scotland,
30:55where I'm doing all the Munros and all the hills. But a lot of what I'm doing is kind of making
30:58sure I'm passing through the villages in the town. So a lot of it's been kind of more sticking to the
31:03roads, still get beautiful views. But yeah, if you're on the road, try and stick to footpaths,
31:09because it's actually quite like if you spend an entire day walking on the road,
31:12it's just really painful for your feet.
31:17But I don't know. I mean, also, it's not classy, but I mean, waterproof jackets lose their
31:24waterproof, whatever it's called, quite easily. I've even had one kind of sprayed to try and
31:30improve it, but it just still doesn't work. Yeah, I've had two waterproof jackets and
31:35they don't really last, I think, no matter how fancy a brand you go. So like an industrial
31:41bin liner. It gets really bad. Honestly, it keeps your body completely fine, just your arms get a
31:52bit wet because I didn't have the sort of creative skills or time or space to make the sleeves. But
31:57yeah, just a bin liner, like a really thick one was, yeah, that's been really helpful,
32:04just keeping your body dry. And obviously, you know, you get rucksacks that are great with
32:09waterproof stuff. But yeah, waterproof jackets have been a letdown. So I've just gone for a bin
32:13liner most of the time when it gets really bad. Yeah, because it must be hard making sure your
32:17laptop and your phone stay dry when you're in a trench like that middle of nowhere.
32:22Yeah, I nearly, I just, well, I was just, I was sort of giving up on everything at this point,
32:28but I was so tired walking up. I did go through the Cairngorm mountain range a little bit. I mean,
32:34it's kind of on the west of the Cairngorm National Park. So it wasn't sort of huge
32:38Monroes, but it was still pretty hard, like with all the kit. I still found it quite difficult. But
32:44that was on a week holiday, which I spent relaxing in the mountains, but it wasn't very relaxing
32:50because the mist was so thick and it was just like rolling in and I couldn't see. I got lost,
32:54ran out of water. It was all a bit of a disaster. And I just was really tired at one point. And I
32:58face planted what I thought was just like a bed of moss, but it was a bog and it just completely
33:03consumed me, like the whole thing. And I just thought, oh my God, my laptop, my camera, they're
33:08like in my bag, which I carry on my front. But actually the little bag that we've got is for
33:14work equipment has been amazing at protecting. But also the laptop's in a plastic kind of file,
33:22like a thing, a document sort of case, which I just, you know, I slip it into that. Then I put
33:27it and I zip it up, put it into the laptop. And then my camera also wrap in a plastic bag and then
33:32it's got its case as well. So yeah, I do every night in the tent, even if it's not raining, I
33:39wrap everything in these bin liners or bags. Then I put them kind of on a piece of tarpaulin. I
33:47really, yeah, the kit I really keep safe because yeah, the amount of times I've woken up from the
33:52tent's kind of got water in it and just have to, yeah, protect that.
33:57Well, Catherine, thanks very much for joining the podcast. It's been great to hear about the
34:01kind of highs and lows and just the sheer kind of experience, I guess, of your walk around Scotland.
34:06I mean, just finally, what are your plans now? Are you going to, are you stopping soon, presumably,
34:12because we're going into winter or are you keeping going?
34:15Yeah, that's a very good question because often I'm waking up and I'm not really sure myself, but
34:19I know that I, yeah, I've talked it through. It was meant to obviously be roughly six months, but
34:24I want to finish kind of what I started and it's taken a little bit longer to get to where I am on
34:30the map in terms of what I sort of planned when I started. But yeah, I still probably need a couple
34:37more months and I know that the weather will be changing, but we've hardly had a summer really,
34:43if we're being honest. I mean, it's been quite difficult weather the whole way through anyway.
34:48I feel quite confident that I've got the kit that will see me through, but also like I've
34:51mentioned in this conversation, just the, you know, the welcoming nature of a lot of people in
34:57this country. I'm not worried too much about, you know, being safe in terms of the weather.
35:01And so, yeah, I think the mood right now is to keep going until I've covered, I want to finish
35:08some of the West Coast islands and then Orkney and Shetland and then finish walking up to Inverness
35:16through Morayshire and back into Aberdeenshire, where I started.
35:18Well, good luck. I mean, doing that over the winter is going to be intense, but I'm sure it will be
35:24amazing. Thank you very much for joining us on the podcast.
35:28Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me.
35:45Bye.