Bilawal Ki Qazi Faez Isa Ki Tareef... Aaeni Tarmeem Par Aik Bar Phir Se Sawal Uth Gaya ?
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00:00Hafiz sahab, first of all, let's come to the constitutional amendment.
00:03A while ago, Fawad Chaudhary sahab said that the constitutional amendment has become useless,
00:07it is of no use, it is a face-saving. Do you agree with this or not?
00:10Look, Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim, Anika, thank you very much.
00:12Fundamentally, there were six things to which we had to go.
00:16One was that the justice system of Pakistan is dysfunctional,
00:20ordinary people are not heard, their cases are not filed,
00:24it is a matter of 10 to 15 years, it is a civil matter for 10 to 24 years,
00:29they should be expedited and the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
00:32which has engaged itself in constitutional matters,
00:35or the high courts have engaged in 199, should be removed from it.
00:39The second thing was that your jurisdiction, the constitutional jurisdiction,
00:44the Supreme Court of Pakistan has exceeded it, the High Court and the Supreme Court,
00:50and the visa-verse situations of the Parliament should be improved
00:54so that both the institutions work within their parameters.
00:58The third thing was that the judicial appointments should be improved,
01:02whether it is the Supreme Court, the High Court or the Chief Justices,
01:06and finally, the accountability of the judges should be discussed.
01:09Now, these last four things suit these political parties,
01:13whether it is the PTI, the People's Party, or the PMLN,
01:17these mainstream parties want the supremacy of the Parliament to remain,
01:23and the Supreme Court of Pakistan should not interfere in all our affairs,
01:27and this is their consistent stance for the last 15 to 20 years.
01:30But the PTI's stance is a little different.
01:32No, it is not different.
01:33When was the JUI?
01:34No, no, if you look at the stance of the former Prime Minister Imran Khan,
01:37the criticism of these courts was also on the Supreme Court.
01:40If you look at Nawaz Sharif,
01:42When you are in the government, your narrative is different.
01:46When you are out of the government, your narrative is different.
01:49Now, in this, the status of the common man of Pakistan has remained the same,
01:54but the way it is going, it will create a lot of confusion.
01:58Why so?
01:59That is because, who will make the bench, who will make it?
02:02If the Judicial Commission makes it, then the first thing that will go into the challenge,
02:06that the ministers of the government are sitting,
02:08that is, the Attorney General, who has made the composition of the Judicial Commission,
02:13I am sorry, I am cutting you short.
02:15This confusion is also present in the Constitutional Court.
02:18It is not there.
02:19Why not?
02:20That is why it is not there.
02:21There was this confusion in it, that how two CJPs work together.
02:23No, no, no, it is not there.
02:24Look, this work is going on in 70 countries in the world,
02:26where the Constitutional matters are less,
02:28they also have their own jurisdiction.
02:30Look, Anika, the Constitution has treated the Supreme Court or the High Court of Pakistan
02:34as an appellate jurisdiction,
02:37but it has given powers in two articles.
02:40It has given 1199 to the Supreme Court and 1843 to the Supreme Court.
02:44It has given Article 185 and 186.
02:47If the Parliament of Pakistan, I tell you,
02:50if they knew in 1973 that so much overburdened Constitutional matters will go to the High Court,
02:56to the Supreme Court,
02:58then they would have made the Constitutional Court from day one,
03:00that, brother, the man of Pakistan, who has been affected by the system,
03:04should be improved.
03:05I will get back to you.
03:06I will come back to you.
03:07Mr. Khosla, in your opinion,
03:09the Constitutional amendment that is coming forward now,
03:11do you think it is acceptable,
03:13considering that Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf is ready to go to jail and talk to Mr. Ibrahim Khan on this.
03:18This means that somewhere,
03:20some acceptability of this Constitutional amendment is visible in PTI.
03:25Look, this will be against the stance of PTI
03:29if through these assemblies,
03:31through any Constitutional amendment,
03:33leave alone a common legislation,
03:35leave alone a day-to-day legislation,
03:37if they accept such a big amendment in an assembly,
03:42then this will be against their legal stance strategically.
03:46As far as the amendment itself is concerned,
03:49Mr. Hafiz was talking about delay,
03:51and I was also listening to Mr. Bilawal's speech.
03:54The delay in this Constitutional amendment is not addressed at all.
03:56Mr. Khosla, I will come to you.
03:57Mr. Shahbaz Khosla, have you heard the conversation
04:00between you and Mr. Kamran Murtaza?
04:02Do you think that the matter will go towards a larger consensus
04:05and will be successfully passed?
04:08Do you think that this test will be passed?
04:13I don't think so at all,
04:16because the way I have heard Mr. Bilawal's speech in Ujlat,
04:20I have found it more threatening,
04:22by hook or by crook.
04:23And beyond this,
04:25I feel that on 25th,
04:27Mr. Khosla is afraid that if he can't pass it by 25th,
04:30then there will be a big problem with him.
04:33That's why he is ready to do horse trading.
04:37And if you look at its implications,
04:39it means that the fundamental change that is coming by 25th
04:43is only the watch of Qazi Faiz Issa,
04:46which will end on 25th.
04:48So by his statement in the end,
04:50he has not only implicated Qazi Faiz Issa
04:53in whatever has been going on,
04:56or whatever will be unearthed later,
04:58but he is also putting serious questions
05:01on the passage of this bill,
05:03in whatever shape or form.
05:05So you are saying that if Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf
05:08goes and meets Mr. Khan,
05:09it won't make a difference,
05:10because it has become questionable.
05:12So let's put it aside.
05:13Yes.
05:14You heard Mr. Kamran Murtaza's speech yesterday
05:17on the floor of the house.
05:18He was saying that he is also feeling like crying,
05:20and if I resign too.
05:22So you know the situation.
05:23You said in your intro
05:25that they are offering 3 billion rupees.
05:27This is the stance of PTI.
05:30This is the stance of PTI.
05:32I was putting forward their stance.
05:34But Khosla, I will come back to you,
05:35because there is another very important issue.
05:38It is related to the special sessions, Mr. Hafiz.
05:40At this time, the Supreme Court has said
05:43that we have given clarifications twice.
05:45After this, no clarification should be asked from us.
05:47It just happened that no more clarification is needed.
05:50Now, does the ECP have any other wiggle room?
05:54Is there any way they can gain time from this?
05:58Is there any way to delay this?
06:00Or now they have to follow the Supreme Court's decision.
06:03Realistically, I will come back to you
06:05just a minute earlier.
06:07When this whole process was going on,
06:09then it was said that the personalities should be put aside.
06:12And among the personalities,
06:14the first thing was that
06:15Chief Justice Faiz Esa should not be extended here,
06:19nor should he come under the Constitutional Court.
06:21And on the other side,
06:23it was also said that
06:24you should not take the name of any judge
06:26that he will be the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
06:28Let the amendment and let the Parliament decide.
06:30Next topic.
06:31Now, he has come.
06:32And because you are stuck in the personalities,
06:34we will not move forward because of that.
06:36Now, the second thing is that
06:38which you have said,
06:40that the decision of the reserve seats
06:42is a plain language of Article 51,
06:45that the political party in Pakistan
06:47which will fight the election on the election symbol,
06:50will be joined by independent parties.
06:52And whoever has won the seat,
06:53will get the reserve seats.
06:54This is a simple and plain language of Article 51.
06:57And this matter started from the Election Commission on 22nd February.
07:00Till now, 12 judgments or orders have come on it.
07:03And the review has not come yet.
07:05In 76 years, there is no such case in Pakistan
07:08in which so many things have come repeatedly.
07:11Sometimes a short order is coming,
07:12sometimes clarifications are coming.
07:14And this last clarification that has come,
07:16that is straight away hit to the Constitution.
07:18What is it today?
07:19That is because till today,
07:21whatever you have talked about the virus,
07:23be it the High Court or the Supreme Court,
07:25it has never happened that
07:27you have done it without a petition,
07:29or you have taken a sue-a-moto,
07:30or after that you have noticed the Federation,
07:32or you have noticed the Attorney General.
07:34In every case, it goes under Section 27A.
07:37You have bypassed all the processes.
07:39But the Supreme Court knows about the processes.
07:41We should know about the processes.
07:43Very quickly, I have 5 minutes.
07:44If it was known,
07:45then the judgment of 12 July would not have come,
07:47but this case would have been remanded.
07:49And the Election Commission would have been told
07:51to listen to it freshly and make a decision.
07:53And then the litigation that has come to us,
07:55we will decide on that.
07:56So when all these things are beyond the Constitution,
07:58or should have come under the Constitution,
08:00under Article 175-2.
08:02So what is the way out now?
08:04Just tell me quickly within one sentence
08:06that what is the way out now
08:08from the ECP, from this situation.
08:10Now it is bound, because contempt will be imposed.
08:12The law has not been striked down.
08:14The Supreme Court has still said
08:16that its retrospectivity cannot be applied.
08:18When the law has not been striked down,
08:20when the law is in the field,
08:22the Parliament is standing behind it,
08:24then the Election Commission is a sandwich.
08:26And while clarifying the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
08:28the Constitution, the law, the rules,
08:30they should be looked at.
08:32Got your point. Yes, Mr. Khosla.
08:34I think that Mr. Hafiz is our friend,
08:36but he is claiming his knowledge
08:38more than 8 members of the Supreme Court.
08:40And I am looking at the Constitution again and again.
08:42I am not able to see this in the article.
08:44I am not able to see this in the article.
08:46I am not able to see this in the article.
08:48The Supreme Court has explained
08:50the article 51 perfectly.
08:52After all, people went together and voted.
08:54They voted on a mindset.
08:56He has to get the reserve seat.
08:58Or some party has to get it.
09:00Those who are in the election,
09:02their German seats are not that much.
09:04They will get it because you made
09:06others independent.
09:08Here, the Election Commission has played
09:10a very controversial role.
09:12The Supreme Court has given
09:14clarification on the election commission.
09:16The Supreme Court has given clarification
09:18on the election commission.
09:20And this is the duty of the Supreme Court
09:22under Article 189 and 190
09:24on all the courts
09:26and all the government institutions
09:28that the Supreme Court's
09:30order should be presented
09:32as it is.
09:34Time is over.
09:36What about the Acts of Parliament?
09:38Time is over.
09:40See you in another show.