In this week's episode of The Art of Beauty, host Amanda Imani sits down with Malaysian model and founder of the Vitiligo Association Malaysia, Sonya Danita Charles.
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00:00I'm so tired of this. I'm tired of feeling this way. I'm tired of allowing other people who mean
00:06absolutely nothing to me. Strangers. Yeah strangers make me feel this way.
00:15Hi everyone welcome back to season four episode nine of Art of Beauty with me Amanda Imani and
00:21today I have an extremely special guest and a very good friend of mine Sonia everybody. We
00:27have Sonia in the house. Thank you so much Sonia for coming. Thank you for having me. You look
00:32wonderful as always. Thank you. Early put together. She's always just a ray of sunshine. It's so nice
00:38seeing you again. Yes. So for people who maybe are just watching maybe you could tell us a little bit
00:43about yourself and what you do. All right so my name is Sonia. I'm a model, a marketer and also
00:50the founder of Vitiligo Association Malaysia. Yes and I'm sure a lot of people are also wondering
00:57what is vitiligo. Maybe you could share a little bit about you know what vitiligo is and your
01:04experience with vitiligo. So basically vitiligo is a autoimmune skin disorder whereby our skin
01:13cells loses its pigmentation. So it can happen to anybody at any age. So some people have it when
01:20they're 60s you know because as they get older their immune system is a lot weaker as well right.
01:25So they tend to lose their pigmentation because of it. But it can also happen to people from as
01:30young as eight years old. Like for instance I started my vitiligo started when I was eight
01:35years old. So it varies based on each individual. So ideally in simpler terms there's a more scientific
01:43term to it. But in simpler terms it's basically where our immune system is attacking our skin
01:50cells thinking it's a virus when it's actually not. And that causes us to lose our pigmentation.
01:56I see okay. And when you were younger how did you realize you had this autoimmune disorder?
02:03So when we first went to the doctor they did tell us that it was vitiligo. But of course when I was
02:09younger it was not as prominent. It only started spreading even more when I went into my teen years.
02:16So I would say when I was 13 years old that was the peak of it because my skin was just constantly
02:21changing. And also because I was on a lot of different medications because we were trying a
02:27lot of different treatments. So it was just constantly changing from losing pigmentation
02:32to gaining pigmentation. And this was a lot because like I said it was a lot of different
02:37treatments that I went through which had a lot of different side effects. And then on top of that I
02:41had to deal with you know being a teenager your body is changing. You know you get your period
02:47and you know you grow boobs and things like that right. And then on top of that I had to constantly
02:52deal with all the side effects from the medications that I was taking. And on top of that how my skin
02:58was constantly changing as well. So that was definitely a challenge in my younger years.
03:03So vitiligo I guess for people who don't really get it like it's a constant change and does it
03:08change throughout your life from you know when you're a young adult. Oh it can change every day.
03:15So like mine I'm always you know I'm always impressed with how it's constantly changing. So
03:22if you look back at pictures of me from a year ago let's say this date exactly a year ago it
03:28will look completely different. Really? Yes it's always changing. Yeah it's like I always like to
03:34tell people I'm like a chameleon. I'm constantly changing because my spots are constantly changing.
03:39I either gain spots or I gain lose my spots. Yeah so it's always changing you know on my face on my
03:47hands basically anywhere that I have it. So I always like to do a comparison because even if I
03:52look at a picture for me from a month ago there's probably a new spot that I gained or I lost.
03:59Yeah so it's one of those things that's just like constantly evolving. Yeah okay and so vitiligo
04:07like how does that I mean the autoimmune disease is it genetic or is it environmental? So it is not
04:12genetic there's actually also no cure for it it's just one of those things that it affects one
04:19percent of the world's population so we are but it's very rare but it can happen to people of any
04:27age any ethnicity you know at any point of time it just really varies depending on your body.
04:34And I guess with all the treatments that you've tried in your teens
04:40has that maybe helped in a way of like you know reducing or slowing down? So there were a few I
04:47tried that did not really help you know I was vegetarian for two years which was the longest
04:52two years of my life because if you know people who know me knows that I'm not a big fan of
04:57vegetables. But you know I'm very selective about what vegetables I eat right so I had to be
05:02vegetarian for two years because according to. Strictly vegetarian? Yes strictly vegetarian
05:06because according to the doctor it was meat that was making it worse and whatnot which
05:11was completely not true apparently because it did not make any change whatsoever but I was on
05:18one treatment that actually helped me regain my pigment up to 90 percent so I was about 90 percent
05:25back to my actual color already but what we didn't realize was because the doctor was actually
05:31administrating me with steroids without us knowing oh yes so that's what actually helped the
05:39pigmentation but what it was doing was it was also affecting my liver and my kidneys which we
05:45found out later on so the moment I stopped that medication I actually lost all my pigmentation
05:50again so the steroids was helping to re-pigment but it was one of those things where you have to
05:56keep taking it for the rest of your life because the moment you stop you lose all your pigmentation
06:01and of course you know steroids is never good for your body you know whatever purpose you use it for
06:08and to be using it for a very long period of time it will take a toll yes it does have negative
06:14effects on your body yeah and um like with vitiligo right it's is it just on the skin it's a
06:20superficial autoimmune disease like it doesn't really affect your health in any way your general
06:25health no no you're you're it's actually just your skin yeah it's just how it looks like how you take
06:30care of your body is completely up to you but it's basically just your skin yeah okay so because
06:36today's topic is really interesting we're going to be talking all about inner strength and
06:39confidence which I'm sure Sonia has a lot of so I just want to ask you so you did mention earlier a
06:46little bit that you also you know you're a balanced person you are you would say that you
06:51eat quite healthy I mean obviously you look very healthy I have to say she's a model she's
06:57perfect and she's tall guy she is tall but um what are some of the things that you do to maintain
07:03maybe your your inner health that you do it you know in your everyday life so for me what I like
07:09to do is honestly I would like to also kind of put it out there that I'm not the most healthiest
07:15person you know I do like my fair share of junk food you know like McDonald's is my I love
07:24yes I love sweets and chocolates and all that but of course I also try to balance my meals so you
07:31know if there are certain days where my body is craving something like I crave a lot of sweets
07:38I will allow my body to have that for that particular day you know especially when I'm
07:43having my menses and whatnot because you know we're on our periods we have all kinds of cravings
07:48and of course you know and I feel like it's very important to to also understand that it's okay to
07:53give your body that but in moderation right it's all about balance yes it's all about balance so
07:58every other day you know I eat basically whatever I feel like eating I have rice I have noodles you
08:05know lots of chicken vegetables that I do like I will incorporate that into my meals as well
08:11but like I said it's all a very very big balance for me it's not something where I limit myself
08:17from eating anything that I want you know it's more of okay this is what I'm feeling today so
08:23I will have this today yeah and also I guess that's also more sustainable yes for a lot of
08:29people correct because a lot of people always like want to do something and they jump like
08:33yeah at first and they change their whole diet and also not only that eating clean in Malaysia
08:38is very expensive yeah it is very expensive but there are things that you can do at home that is
08:42still clean you know for instance if you make chicken you can always do baked chicken with
08:47baked potatoes yeah you know you've got the proteins from that you've got enough nutrients
08:52that you need and then after that if you feel something sweet then treat yourself to that bar
08:56of chocolate you know yeah I mean that is the whole idea of that basically to have that balance
09:01and you know still give in to some of your cravings yes have that occasional cheat day but
09:06you know if you do have that then you know balancing I know it's it's funny because
09:11whenever people look at me they always assume I don't eat right because because of my size yeah
09:16but I'm actually just blessed that you know it's very you're so lucky yeah I know I'm blessed in
09:21the sense whereby you know I can maintain my my my weight in the way it is I can maintain my body
09:28but it does not mean that I take it for granted as well you know I don't abuse it in any way you
09:33know I don't overdo it in terms of what I eat and what I drink I try to remain balanced you know if
09:40I have a healthy breakfast and a healthy lunch then maybe dinner I'll treat myself to something
09:45slightly unhealthy yeah yeah I mean I do like that mentality because a lot of people I speak
09:50to are like no like I you know if I'm strict I'm strict but then they're they're kind of
09:54it's polarizing yes correct but then you're not enjoying your life exactly every time I see food
10:00it's like I can't I have to control myself I guess I understand the concept of you know wanting to
10:06like for those who want to lose weight and things like that they want to be very strict with their
10:10diet but I feel like you should also allow yourself to have that that cheat meal yeah you know because
10:17it's you only get one chance at this lifetime why do you want to suffer you know enjoy the
10:23wonderful food that we have out there you know for sure just give your body what it feels like
10:28it needs at that point of time yeah and food plays such an important role in your overall mood correct
10:34your health your mood and your outlook in life right so just like today's topic like inner strength
10:41like do you we know that food you know um it plays a big role but do you think things like
10:47fitness mental health even yes a big role in a person's overall well-being yeah are there any
10:53fitness things I guess you do like maybe pilates or you go so for me I like doing yoga and I
11:01actually prefer working out at the gym because I feel like I'm more motivated when I work out at
11:06the gym compared to working out at home I feel like it's just that because you know when you're
11:10at that gym you're already thinking about okay I'm already paying for this and I'm already here
11:15you know so I might as well do it but when I'm at home I'm like oh my bed is over there my sofa is
11:21exactly me my Nutella biscuits are over there you know you end up doing like 15 minutes exactly
11:27there's so much distractions around right but going back to your question mental health also
11:33plays a very big part in it because you can be someone who works out and eats healthy and all
11:39that but if your mental health is not in a great place it's it's pointless you know because you're
11:45you're not going to be as motivated or you're not going to be as enthusiastic about the activities
11:51that you're doing or the workouts that you're doing you know so I always say find something
11:56that you enjoy doing just because someone else tells you oh you need to do more cardio if you
12:01don't necessarily like cardio then find a different exercise that incorporates cardio in it you know
12:07for instance some people don't like running right me yeah they don't like running but then
12:13there are things that involve a lot of cardio like pilates yoga kickboxing that I enjoy exactly
12:20for whatever reason it just seems like the time passes by fast correct like when I'm running on
12:24the treadmill I'm just like oh my god it's three minutes yes there's so many ways to find you know
12:30there's so many different exercises that's out there that you can do and what it is is just
12:35finding something that works best for you you know you don't necessarily have to do what everybody
12:39else is doing find a routine that works for you even if it's just going for walks in the evening
12:45for 30 minutes a time yeah I find that to be like yeah you know walking can even be something you do
12:51in a mall you know just walk around the whole mall yeah yeah at least you're walking at least
12:55you're walking yeah you're stimulating your body you're getting your steps in correct so you're
13:00still walking you're still doing a form of cardio yeah but you're doing it in an environment that
13:05makes you happy you know yeah that's a really good point actually yeah people don't see it that way
13:11because it's like okay if you think about it going to the park going to malls you know these are all
13:16involving cardio as well involving walking so why not walk from one end to the other
13:24the biggest mall you can find and just walk the whole mall that's true I should do that
13:29um because I did like speak to another person on this show and she was saying like there was a
13:34pressure put on her because she she's um how do I say this she's very fitness um driven okay a lot
13:40of her content is all about like working out like yeah counter proteins like yeah she lifts and all
13:46these things and I think over a period of time like she felt like she was doing all these things
13:51and she looked great on the outside but she didn't feel she didn't feel great and she felt like
13:55why am I doing this like am I doing this to actually like you know please other people
14:00and prove a point but what was the point like because she was at the end of the day when she
14:03came home she didn't feel accomplished and she just felt sad even though she on the outside
14:08she looked great perfect like fit like you know at her peak and that's why I said it and your mental
14:13health comes into play over there because you're doing things just to please other people but at
14:19the same time you're you're you're not honoring what your body actually wants what your body
14:24actually needs you know what you want what you need yeah and and that's really sad you know you
14:29shouldn't have to do that I feel like everything is a balance you know do it for you not for
14:35anybody else yes you can be a fitness guru and whatnot but you can also show people that okay
14:41yes I work out this many times a week but here's what my cheat meals are for the week as well you
14:47know because on this particular day I just felt like having McDonald's so I'm gonna have that
14:52McDonald's and also and not feel bad about it that makes you also more relatable correct because
14:56you're not a robot and you you know you at the end of the day you're still human you're still
15:00person and you still have all these things that you suddenly feel like you want to do or want to
15:04eat yeah yeah yeah but yeah definitely mental health plays a huge role but what was it like for
15:09you like you know growing up with vitiligo for example what was your mentality has it changed
15:17you know throughout your life or were you always accepting of it or no honestly I was not when I
15:22was younger it was especially hard because you know I was bullied a lot yes you know I realized
15:29that kids can be really mean when they want to you know but this also comes down to awareness
15:36and education because everything starts at home for instance I grew up in a home whereby my parents
15:42have never made me feel any different you know my family never made me feel any different and
15:46in fact when we saw somebody who's different we still loved and accept them exactly the way they
15:51are yeah so this is the education that my parents instilled in us from a very young age at home but
15:57then there are people out there who do not teach their kids that you know and then their kids grow
16:03up to be really really horrible people because they're not instilling that values and principles
16:08in them I'll give you an example that was once when I was younger I was at a mall and you know
16:13I was kind of just doing my own thing I was grocery shopping right and this kid came close to
16:19me and the parent saw their kid come close to me and you know she immediately pulled her kid away
16:24and said oh don't go near her otherwise you'll have what she has you know oh don't touch her
16:29because you know you'll get what she has right so you see that's the value and lesson that they are
16:35instilling in their kids they're teaching their kids that oh if there's somebody who looks different
16:40and if you go near that person you're gonna have what that person has which is the completely it's
16:45a completely wrong approach you know if kids don't grow up knowing how to be bullies they do not grow
16:51up they they are not born with you know anger in them and stereotypes and racism and all that it's
16:59all things that they see at home it's what their parents teach them it's what their teachers teach
17:04them you know everything starts at home right yeah so growing up it really was a struggle for
17:10me because you know firstly there was no representation of people who looked like me
17:14especially not in the media or beauty industry you know or in my country for instance you know
17:20I barely saw anyone who looked like me who had my skin condition so that made it especially hard
17:25and then having to deal with people's thoughts and perceptions about my skin condition or having
17:31to deal with people coming up to me and saying the most ridiculous things you know like you know
17:37making comments about my skin and whatnot right it was really really hard especially when I was
17:42younger because yeah I felt like I basically felt like an alien you know I felt like an outcast I
17:47felt like I didn't belong and it was so hard and it was such a struggle that you know I
17:55I was depressed for such a long time I hated going out you know when I was younger I never wore skirts
18:00shorts I always wore long long sleeve pants tops and you know jeans and whatnot to cover everything
18:10given my face was exactly like this you know I never covered it with makeup but I felt like
18:14anywhere else I could cover I would because I just wanted to not have to deal with people
18:21staring at me and looking at me and whatnot you know but eventually it came to a point you know
18:27when I was 17 years old I kind of told myself you know I'm so tired of this I'm tired of feeling
18:32this way I'm tired of allowing other people who mean absolutely nothing to me yeah strangers
18:39make me feel this way you know and I decided okay the only way this is going to change is if I change
18:45how I look at myself how I perceive my life you know so I started by you know working on my
18:51confidence slowly by slowly I started learning to you know wear more shorts you know dress
18:57embracing it yeah it might not seem like much to to any other person out there but to someone like
19:03me it meant a lot you know because you go from just this one visible point to everything is visible
19:10already you know and so I started doing things like that I started stepping out of my own bubble
19:15you know doing things that I actually enjoy you know going out spending time with friends and
19:21whatnot and eventually I just kind of learned to build this really thick skin mentality whereby now
19:29whatever people say does not affect me you know if if a person came up to me and said something
19:36really mean about my skin now it wouldn't affect me as much in comparison to when I was a teenager
19:42yeah but it also took a lot of years to be who I am today it took a lot of effort you know it took
19:50a lot of inner work you know building my mental strength my emotional strength everything basically
19:57to come to terms with understanding that you know what we're all made uniquely for a reason
20:02everybody is made differently for a reason we're all put in this world for a purpose yeah and it's
20:08just a matter of finding out what that purpose is and living your purpose and for me I can
20:13confidently say that you know what at this point of time if anything were to happen to me you know
20:18knock on wood right at least on my last days of my dying breath I can look back at my life and say
20:26you know what I actually lived my purpose yeah I made a difference yeah I did what I wanted to do
20:31in my life I lived my life the way I wanted to live yeah and that's all that matters to me because
20:36I don't care how many people like me or how many people don't like me at the end of the day it's
20:41I like me you know I like who I see in the mirror and that's all that matters yeah that's really
20:47well said Sonia I mean wow that is very inspirational so I think for people watching
20:51you know who are going through something similar it may not be an autoimmune disease it could just
20:56be you know body dysmorphia it could be something that they're dealing with that they don't want to
21:01see they don't want to see themselves for who they are in the mirror or they maybe cannot accept
21:06themselves for the way they look or feel or whatever reason and so I think that's why you've
21:10been such an inspiration for so many people and even for me like every time I see you're always
21:15so happy and outgoing and I think you know how you feel really you know is portrayed by how you
21:21carry yourself and I really have to commend you on thank you know your confidence and also just
21:27your positivity that radiates in every single room that you walk in thank you so yeah I mean
21:34again going on on and on the whole like aspect of like mental health and um I guess just like
21:43growing up in in such a world you think that like maybe schools and stuff like we don't really have
21:48any sort of awareness programs for kids right what do you think can be done that you know that can
21:57maybe better you know for kids who are learning growing up to be more I know we have social media
22:03now you have people like you talking and making you know it more of a norm and talking about you
22:10know and giving it more awareness but what do you think maybe like the education system
22:14or um you know maybe there are programs that people can go to not just about vitiligo but any
22:21other sort of you know autoimmune disease or disorders and things like that what do you think
22:27that maybe you know we can do as a community I feel like with schools right so they have
22:32you know panditikan moral right and that's where they teach you about values and principles and
22:38whatnot right so they they should also implement actually implement that when they see kids being
22:45mean to other kids or bullying other kids like the problem I had or I feel like still goes on in
22:51schools now is that when kids are being bullied the teachers don't say anything about it they don't
22:57correct these kids who are the bullies you know they don't teach them no this is not the right
23:02way to do it yeah you know so to have you should I feel like okay maybe they can do something along
23:08the lines of having more more public speaking initiatives in their school there are so many
23:17people out there who who are so inspirational who I'm sure would be more than willing to go to
23:23schools and give talks and things like this you know incorporate that into your curriculum do it
23:28once a month or three times a year you know get people from different walks of life to come and
23:33share their stories and and you know to educate these kids and on top of that ensure that whatever
23:40you're teaching in the classroom is also something positive that these kids can take home you know so
23:46when you see a kid being bullied stand up for that kid yeah you know yeah and they teach them in
23:53Malaysia there's so many bullying cases exactly and nobody does anything about it and I'm like
23:57it's 2024 like all right you know and all these things are only documented through social media
24:03like someone actually filming it and it you know it goes on tiktok whatever but I'm saying like can
24:08you imagine how many of these cases are happening behind closed doors and how many kids have to go
24:12through you know stages of bullying and a lot of that don't end so going back to that so I actually
24:19gave a talk at a primary school you know sometime last year and my first question to them was
24:28raise your hands if you've ever been bullied and you will be shocked with the number of kids who
24:34actually raised their hands when I said that you know and then I asked them okay what are some of
24:40the things that you have been bullied on I had people tell me that they were bullied because of
24:44the shape of their eyes because of the color of their skin because of the condition of their clothes
24:51or their school bag that they're using because you know maybe they come from a family that cannot
24:57afford a very expensive school bag yeah and it was so sad to see that this was still going on
25:03in this day and age you know and and I just stood there and I was so disheartened to see all these
25:10little kids feeling that way at that age can you imagine at the age of 13 years old 14 years old
25:17and you're feeling that way it's really I know how it feels so I know what a horrible feeling
25:22it is you know and so I always think to myself why is there no change you know our world is
25:29progressing the internet is progressing but yet in a lot of ways we're back to square one we're
25:36exactly the same you know yeah which is very very sad I mean it's very sad I see that too also and
25:41I'm just like how is this happening every single day and why are kids you know doing that to other
25:47kids and why are their their parents not really and that's why I said it comes back to education
25:53home yeah yeah I feel like more than anything else it's not the kids who are to blame it's
25:59honestly the parents yeah because whatever you learn from a very young age you learn from your
26:04parents you learn everything at home yeah you know it's how your parents speak it's how your parents
26:11treat other people you know for for me I always saw how kindly my father treated people like you
26:18know the servers at a mamak shop or the guy who comes to collect our rubbish and things like that
26:23you know that's where I learned my values from because I saw how he always treated them as equals
26:29yeah you know regardless of what job they worked he always treated them as equals he always treated
26:35them kindly yeah you know so in my head I'm I'm always reminding myself okay yes this is exactly
26:41how people should be we should not you know discriminate against people because of their race
26:47or the color of their skin or the size of their body or how much money they make or what job they
26:52work you know yeah we're all humans we should all be treated equally with kindness and love and
26:58respect so I feel more than anything else there are a lot of parents out there who really need to
27:06do some you know inner work and self-realization work to and really humble themselves and understand
27:15that they are the root guy I mean they are part of the yeah they are a part of the problem and
27:21also part of the solution yes correct they can be part of the solution as well it all starts at home
27:26it starts with them you know well yeah thank you for sharing that I mean I can't imagine you know
27:32what you had to go through and like I said I'm sure whoever's watching that you know can relate
27:37to you know your experiences with whatever you say would have mean a lot to them yeah
27:42um so I guess before we end I know you do some modeling you also um you know have traveled many
27:50uh places abroad and worked with so many brands yeah how does it feel now you know on the other
27:55side of that you're on the other side I guess of that um I don't want to say hurdle but that you
28:02I feel like you've gone through it and on the other side you're on the happy side the good
28:06side of it right you've come out stronger and you come out and you've built who you are to be today
28:11and you're so confident and so eloquent and well spoken thank you you know the way that you put
28:17everything together in perspective is really you know amazing so how does it feel now that you're
28:22working with all these brands and you you're representing so many you know people women who
28:28are maybe facing a similar issue and you know seeing you as a role model how does it feel for
28:35you honestly I am just very very grateful and very very humbled by the countless opportunities that
28:42I've been given you know I always tell people I'm actually very grateful for each and every individual
28:48who has understood my vision and my purpose and you know has believed in me you know and
28:55given me that opportunity to do so many different things right I'm so grateful to them because
29:01they are also part of the solution whether they realize it or not like even with you you are also
29:07part of the solution by having conversations like this this is how we slowly change the world one
29:13step at a time of course it's not an overnight thing right and yet each effort makes a difference
29:21you know so as much as everything I've gone through was very painful and you know and and
29:28difficult and whatnot I'm so glad I went through that because it actually made me the person that
29:34I am today you know I always look back and you know I think to myself okay actually if I didn't
29:40go through all that I would not have developed this resilient mentality that I have today you
29:46know because I wouldn't have known what it felt like yeah totally but because of everything I
29:51went through I also know what it feels like so I'm always reminded that you know whenever I meet
29:56people I should always treat people kindly I should always love people I should always show
30:01my support in any way I can because you never really know what the person is going through
30:07yeah you know and that's something to remember is regardless of who you speak to always be kind
30:13towards them because kindness really does go a long way yeah you know the words that you use
30:18have the ability to either make or break someone yeah for me it made me because I've heard so many
30:25words throughout my life that I used those words as my fuel and my energy to become a better person
30:33to grow myself you know to to develop my mental health to develop my perspective surrounding life
30:40but there are people out there who I've spoken to who have been severely you know negatively
30:45impacted by these words you know so I'm always I'm always telling people you know just be kind
30:52even if someone is mean to you you know especially on the internet people can be really mean
30:56trolls people yeah there are a lot of trolls out there you know they make a lot of unnecessary
31:00comments yeah but it's one of those things where instead of feeling angry you should feel sorry for
31:06them because people who bully other people are people who feel insecure on the inside yeah that
31:13is true it's it's like the term misery loves company right when someone is miserable they want
31:18other people to be miserable too because they can't stand the sight of seeing other people happy
31:23but the best way to maneuver around all this is to just ignore it yes it's hurtful you know what
31:30just put it out into the universe and say I hope this person finds peace someday I hope they find
31:35happiness because everybody deserves that yeah but it's something that they have to work on on
31:40their own it's got absolutely nothing to do with you yeah well said Sonia so before I let you go
31:47once again I'd like to thank you for coming on thank you so much to me and of course to this
31:52show as well so again before I let you go maybe you could tell our viewers where they can find
31:58you on socials if they'd like to follow yes so you guys can follow me on Instagram and TikTok
32:04under Sonia Danita and you can also follow my association which is the vitiligo association
32:10Malaysia where we've got a lot of wonderful individuals who have shared wonderful stories
32:14as well but yeah that's basically it okay well that is it from us once again thank you Sonia
32:22thank you you know it was lovely chatting with you and having you on the show
32:26and for those of you watching thanks for watching and I will see you guys in the next episode
32:33bye for now