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00:00:00I've got tears in my eyes, because really, there's...
00:00:04Even now I'm moved by it, but what it was, that thing...
00:00:09Sorry.
00:00:10Don't worry.
00:00:11What it was, that thing, for the Milanese...
00:00:17It was incredible.
00:00:19After the first half, we were down 3-0.
00:00:22So he comes in, we all get angry.
00:00:25He starts talking, everyone around him, at a certain point,
00:00:28you can hear it.
00:00:31Luca turns around and says,
00:00:34who farted?
00:00:42A new episode of Unlocking Room, with us...
00:00:45Filippo Galli. Hi, Filippo.
00:00:46Hi, good morning, everyone.
00:00:48Now we'll tell Filippo who he is.
00:00:51Thanks for the invitation.
00:00:52Because Filippo is,
00:00:54apart from being an important part of Milan's history,
00:00:59Filippo is also a keeper of incredible secrets and anecdotes,
00:01:03because he was part of the best Milan of all time.
00:01:07Luca, I'd say, for the young people
00:01:10who stop on YouTube a few years earlier or later,
00:01:15who is Filippo Galli?
00:01:17Shall I go? So, Filippo Galli is a boomer.
00:01:20A real boomer, I'd say.
00:01:22I was born in 1963, so we're almost 61 years old.
00:01:29I played for Milan for a large part of my career, 14 seasons.
00:01:35I've always loved Milan, for six years.
00:01:37I went to Milan Celtic in 1969,
00:01:40when they took me to see a game in Milan at San Siro,
00:01:45which I remember practically nothing about,
00:01:47except that we came back home very late at night,
00:01:52because my cousin had parked his car outside the San Siro stadium,
00:01:57but not remembering where he had parked it,
00:02:00because it was snowing, we had to wait for everyone to leave.
00:02:03I'm asking you, today's Filippo,
00:02:04who looks at today's football and looks back at his life,
00:02:07what does he notice?
00:02:09From a football point of view, not necessarily from a technical point of view,
00:02:13more physical or less physical.
00:02:14The call-up to football came early, to the football environment,
00:02:19because I was away for seven or eight months,
00:02:23I worked in a company that dealt with sportswear.
00:02:26I was in China, in Romania, where this company produced,
00:02:31but after eight months, the football environment was missing.
00:02:35So I called Ari Dobraida, who spoke to Dr Gagliani,
00:02:40and from there I returned to Milan
00:02:42as an assistant to Franco Baresi's staff on the Primavera.
00:02:46It was the 2000-2004 season, so I quit in 2003.
00:02:50In the previous episodes, you told us
00:02:53that that's why Milan has always been a family for those who have lived there.
00:02:57Because if you've given so much to Milan,
00:03:00if you've been a quality player, but more a person,
00:03:04the Milan of those years,
00:03:05the Milan of Gagliani, Berlusconi, Braida,
00:03:10did you enjoy having a good professional with them?
00:03:14Yes, absolutely.
00:03:16I have to thank the people you've mentioned,
00:03:19because when I left Milan,
00:03:22obviously in a football-wise way,
00:03:26because I've always been a fan of Rossonero,
00:03:29this phone call, the one I mentioned earlier,
00:03:32reopened the doors for me in Milan,
00:03:35and from there I began a career in the youth sector,
00:03:38first with Franco for two seasons,
00:03:40then as head of the Primavera team,
00:03:43and then I also spent a year with Carlo Ancelotti's staff,
00:03:46with Mauro Tassotti,
00:03:48I was with them, it was like going to university,
00:03:52from that point of view.
00:03:53And then I was appointed head of the youth sector,
00:03:57with Dr. Gagliani,
00:03:59and those were nine very intense seasons,
00:04:02from every point of view.
00:04:04Who is the head of the youth sector?
00:04:07I embraced the methodological idea,
00:04:11the method of how to train a young player,
00:04:18because there is talent in the player,
00:04:21in the boy or girl,
00:04:22given that there is female football today,
00:04:24but then you have to be able to accompany him,
00:04:27you have to be able to educate him,
00:04:29in the sense of educating him,
00:04:30to be able to bring him out,
00:04:31and this is part of the skills
00:04:37that each person, this boy or girl,
00:04:39will find along the way.
00:04:42And so we need what we have worked on a lot,
00:04:45and I want to emphasise this,
00:04:47beyond the fact that you are happy
00:04:49when young people join the first team,
00:04:51when they become professionals at any level,
00:04:54but also the growth of the human capital
00:04:57within the youth sector,
00:04:58so the relational skills,
00:05:00the specific technical skills,
00:05:03of course, of the technicians,
00:05:04of all the professional figures that were there.
00:05:08When you have one, two, three players
00:05:10that you say, in that year,
00:05:12they have something more, they have more talent,
00:05:14then I don't know if they will become footballers,
00:05:16but you see it, right?
00:05:18Because then, maybe I'm wrong,
00:05:20you confirm it, but you see it when one,
00:05:22especially going forward over the years,
00:05:2312, 13, 15 years, has something more.
00:05:26I ask you, as a manager,
00:05:28that you know this thing,
00:05:29how do you look at those three?
00:05:31So how do you try to accompany them?
00:05:33How do you try to design the future for them?
00:05:34How do you try to advise them?
00:05:35But also how do you look at the other 21?
00:05:38It's a beautiful question, a complex question,
00:05:41that requires an equally complex answer.
00:05:44I assume that a talent is not enough for itself.
00:05:49A talent needs a background,
00:05:51and the background is not only the professionalism
00:05:54that I was talking about earlier,
00:05:56but also that of your team-mates.
00:05:59Because, in my opinion, it's also important
00:06:02in the training of a young player,
00:06:04because this talent is educated,
00:06:06it shows itself, at the end of the day,
00:06:08it needs to be included, for example,
00:06:10in a game context, a style of play of a certain kind.
00:06:13I have always stressed this with my colleagues,
00:06:17and it's important for us.
00:06:19So it's true, then you look at it with a certain talent,
00:06:24that player who you think can make it to the first team,
00:06:27in this case, the first team of Milan,
00:06:29or still be a professional,
00:06:31and therefore enter that market of reference
00:06:33that the club may be interested in,
00:06:35and therefore bring what we call the advantages.
00:06:38But then you have to be careful with the others,
00:06:41because the others give that added value
00:06:43within which the talent shows itself,
00:06:49it grows, it can have difficulties.
00:06:52Will there be more, I imagine,
00:06:53the talents that you have seen, so great,
00:06:56that have not arrived,
00:06:57rather those that have arrived,
00:06:58not for your own merits, of course,
00:07:00but because it is then the funnel...
00:07:01No, no, I said it before, but also for our merits.
00:07:03Obviously, we have always tried to work with intellectual honesty.
00:07:08One of the characteristics of the athlete, of the player,
00:07:12is that of being able to continually learn.
00:07:15One of these guys is a guy who is not with us today,
00:07:19on the contrary, he is on the other side of the barricade,
00:07:21with the money, who is Matteo Darmiani,
00:07:24who is a player that we had in the spring with the students,
00:07:27with Chico Evani, who trained him,
00:07:29then I had him in the spring,
00:07:31a player who never stops learning.
00:07:33I think this is another component of talent,
00:07:36because talent really needs multiple views,
00:07:41according to many paradigms, many disciplines.
00:07:48Talent needs to grow within the game.
00:07:51The game is made up of other components,
00:07:55which are certainly the opponents,
00:07:58but they are also the teammates,
00:08:00the instrument, the ball and the playing space.
00:08:03In there, we find all the elements for the growth of talent,
00:08:06in whatever it is.
00:08:10So, the individual aspect, in my opinion, no,
00:08:14because the technique,
00:08:15we in Italy struggle to understand this,
00:08:18obviously, it's my opinion, it's our opinion.
00:08:21The technique is not a goal,
00:08:23the technique is a tool to solve situations in the game.
00:08:27And if I'm not in the game,
00:08:29the technique that I learn outside the game,
00:08:32is something that I learn outside the context.
00:08:35So, in the end, from our point of view,
00:08:38there is no transfer of learning.
00:08:40So, how much do I need that technique?
00:08:42We've seen it, we've had players,
00:08:45and we see players who are freestylers,
00:08:47players,
00:08:50but then, put in a game situation,
00:08:52that technical ability that they show outside the context,
00:08:55it doesn't help them at all,
00:08:57because then, it's also necessary to say,
00:09:00it's something that De Zerbi always says,
00:09:02and that I always underline,
00:09:05is that if I don't train the player,
00:09:07at the choice, I'm not training him.
00:09:09And the choice, since,
00:09:11excuse me if I digress,
00:09:13the choice from whom I am dictated in the end,
00:09:15who is the one that I control less in the game,
00:09:18is my opponent.
00:09:19And so, if I train myself technically,
00:09:21without the presence of the opponent,
00:09:23in the end, I'm not training myself.
00:09:25I know it's a topic that's been discussed a lot today,
00:09:27which is the construction from the bottom, for example.
00:09:30We started in 2000, it was 2012,
00:09:33around the third year,
00:09:35to do the construction from the bottom with our teams of 13, 14 years old.
00:09:39And someone from the federation would come and say,
00:09:41look what you're doing, you're crazy,
00:09:43because here, if the kid makes a mistake,
00:09:46the central midfielder has to set up, we'll get a goal.
00:09:48Yes, of course, it's true.
00:09:50So, we made some adjustments,
00:09:52because it was something in itinerary.
00:09:55And so, we are convinced that the way of playing there
00:09:59is not a verse, it's not a desire to look in the mirror,
00:10:04but it puts the players in a position to learn, to make mistakes.
00:10:09So, we always say that the mistake is part of the training process.
00:10:14It's clear that the player has to be supported,
00:10:16because if I say to build from the bottom,
00:10:18and this one makes a mistake, I'll kill him as a coach.
00:10:21I'm not supporting him, that's all.
00:10:23And on top of that, this player has to be the protagonist of his own destiny,
00:10:30let's put it that way, being proactive and not reactive.
00:10:35There was that idea of playing football in that way,
00:10:38both to grow the teams from the point of view of play and performance,
00:10:43but also because, from the technical point of view of the players,
00:10:47and from the point of view of value.
00:10:48What does value mean?
00:10:50Because if I work on organisation, on mutual help,
00:10:54I bring values, collaboration.
00:10:56If there's a kid who's in trouble,
00:10:58and I make the other team-mates understand that they have to help him,
00:11:01and here I'm referring to Marcelo Biesa,
00:11:04who says that the strongest team
00:11:06is the one that understands the importance of defending the weakest link.
00:11:10Filippo, do you remember any of your colleagues who came to you and said,
00:11:14I've found it, I've got the pearl.
00:11:17And who were these pearls?
00:11:19Players, well, it's someone who came with this label,
00:11:25because unfortunately we're in the world of labels,
00:11:28of football, of the youth sector.
00:11:29We're in a hurry to label good and bad, unfortunately.
00:11:33One of them is, well, Mastur, maybe you wanted to get to this.
00:11:37I don't know, but he was a player who was expecting great things,
00:11:43because at his age, at 14, when he arrived in Milan,
00:11:46after he'd spent two years at Inter,
00:11:51he arrived in Milan and he was expecting to be able to get
00:11:55to the first team with a snap of his fingers,
00:12:00but he didn't.
00:12:01Do you remember Verdi, who was very strong,
00:12:04and then he became a footballer.
00:12:05Absolutely, Verdi.
00:12:06He looked like the Messi of Primavera.
00:12:08Verdi is the first player I mention to Dr Gagliani,
00:12:16because I saw him at the first tournament I was in charge of
00:12:20at Villarreal.
00:12:22It was a tournament where you played on a single pitch
00:12:24with 12 teams, a pitch that never got ruined.
00:12:27Verdi, in the grass, incredible.
00:12:30And I see this kid who does incredible things,
00:12:33right, left, he has the ability to understand the game,
00:12:37to understand when he has to pass the ball,
00:12:39when he has to go on his own.
00:12:40In fact, we call Dr Gagliani, he doesn't have a contract,
00:12:44but we risk losing this kid.
00:12:46We are here facing foreign teams,
00:12:49Liverpool, Real, Barcelona, Celtic, all these teams.
00:12:53I think he had a good career,
00:12:58maybe he expected more,
00:13:00among other things he scored one of the two goals
00:13:02we won the Coppa Italia against Palermo in San Siro,
00:13:06in the return leg.
00:13:07He was a player, now he's at Como,
00:13:10but he was a player who was good to watch.
00:13:14Maybe he expected more,
00:13:16but I think Verdi had a great career.
00:13:19How much do goals weigh in the youth sector?
00:13:21Because, often we say,
00:13:24he scored 100 goals in the youth sector, but...
00:13:28It's clear that a goal in the youth sector makes you think,
00:13:33it gives you the idea that a player has that attitude,
00:13:35that ability, that realisation,
00:13:38so it should be a characteristic that will accompany him
00:13:42throughout his career.
00:13:44Then, there's no doubt that the youth sector
00:13:48has players who are a certain type,
00:13:51and then, going forward, with the categories,
00:13:55when you play in the first teams, you find players,
00:13:58you find more organised opponents,
00:14:00who have a few more flaws,
00:14:02and you have to be able to overcome these flaws,
00:14:05let's call them that.
00:14:07So, as I said before,
00:14:08the ability of the player to continue to improve comes into play.
00:14:13He's become a professional,
00:14:15he's become someone who's played with us in Serie A,
00:14:19and then he hasn't been able to make that leap forward
00:14:22because he's stopped for a while.
00:14:24Then, I always say that training is continuous,
00:14:28so, especially in the youth sector,
00:14:29there are moments of growth, moments of regression,
00:14:32moments of stasis.
00:14:34The important thing is to be able to have the time
00:14:37and to give the time to these talents,
00:14:39in some way, to settle in and to understand
00:14:41in which direction they will go.
00:14:44If I'm not mistaken, you brought the training,
00:14:47in the sense of arriving with the scouts, up to a certain point,
00:14:50and then you worked on those groups.
00:14:52I didn't bring it.
00:14:53I'll explain why I didn't bring it.
00:14:56I brought it to the club, because in Milan,
00:14:58in those years, in 2012,
00:15:00when Ibrahimović was sold,
00:15:04Ibrahimović and Thiago Silva were sold to Paris Saint-Germain,
00:15:08there was a change, let's call it that,
00:15:10of the business model in Milan.
00:15:12So, the club was clear.
00:15:14As the first team,
00:15:16we won't buy first-team players anymore.
00:15:18In the same way, in the youth sector,
00:15:21we managed to build, let's say,
00:15:24the Under-15 team, the 14-year-old team,
00:15:27in which, according to the federation's rules,
00:15:31we could buy up to 10 players from outside the region,
00:15:35so 14-year-olds.
00:15:37Once that team was formed,
00:15:38we had to bring it up until the spring.
00:15:41In fact, that project was born,
00:15:44which was called Modellumina.
00:15:47I don't like labels,
00:15:49but the idea of having to work in depth,
00:15:53from a methodological point of view,
00:15:55because it was no longer possible to include other players,
00:15:57so we had to get the best out of these talents,
00:16:01these players we had.
00:16:03So I asked Gagliani to go with my colleagues
00:16:06to visit that youth sector,
00:16:08to that club that was a competitor to Milan,
00:16:11that played in the Champions League continuously,
00:16:14that had many players from the youth sector
00:16:17in their first team,
00:16:20so we had to understand how these teams worked.
00:16:24We went there and we saw how they worked.
00:16:27First of all, with a continuity of principles
00:16:30and consistency of principles over time,
00:16:33so from the young ones to their first team.
00:16:37The coaches were also the teachers, the psychologists,
00:16:40who worked both on the pitch and where we had our boys,
00:16:46in the welcoming structure.
00:16:48Because I have a psychologist, a teacher,
00:16:51I don't care if he's the best in his field,
00:16:56but if he doesn't know the difficulties
00:16:58that a player can have,
00:17:00from an emotional point of view,
00:17:01when we ask him to bring the ball in,
00:17:03what do I need his professionalism for?
00:17:06And so the athletic coach has to know about football,
00:17:10because if he doesn't know about football,
00:17:12I don't do anything about it, I don't care,
00:17:14and here we could open another topic,
00:17:15maybe later on, I don't know,
00:17:17that a player reaches the maximum potential in his speed,
00:17:21because then he'll need a certain speed
00:17:23to solve a situation in the game.
00:17:25So football is not an athletic performance,
00:17:28football is a football performance,
00:17:29also through the tests that were carried out
00:17:33with continuity on the conditioning skills.
00:17:36Then we saw that these players,
00:17:39really, those who arrived,
00:17:43we did this study in 2018,
00:17:45just before our experience ended,
00:17:48my experience as a manager of the youth sector,
00:17:51we saw that those players who came to play in Serie A,
00:17:54to become professionals,
00:17:55they all had conditioning skills
00:17:59in the normal curve,
00:18:01and none of them was extraordinary.
00:18:04So it's clear that to become a professional
00:18:07you need something else.
00:18:09You have to be an athlete, we don't doubt that,
00:18:11but you don't necessarily have to be Rambo,
00:18:14or you have to be in the history of football,
00:18:17or you have to be in the history of players
00:18:19who, even structurally, are not great,
00:18:22but they are great players.
00:18:23Coaches, what is the same,
00:18:26what is the difference between a U12 coach
00:18:29and a first-team coach?
00:18:31What aspect must be maintained,
00:18:34and what aspect clearly changes?
00:18:37I think that in the end,
00:18:38there is a union between these figures,
00:18:42and I think that the most important thing is to be yourself.
00:18:47In the relationship with the lads, with the kids,
00:18:50in this case, as you said, rather than with the adults.
00:18:53You have to set an example.
00:18:56It's clear that I can give indications,
00:18:59but then it depends on how I behave on the pitch,
00:19:02the consistency I have.
00:19:04And above all, I have to be able to listen,
00:19:06to observe and to listen.
00:19:07I think the ability to observe and to listen,
00:19:10I always use Carlo Ancelotti as an example.
00:19:12Carlo Ancelotti is, not just for me,
00:19:16but he is the number one in this regard,
00:19:18because of his ability to be empathic,
00:19:20to be able to understand the other,
00:19:23to understand what the other is going through.
00:19:25I think this is really extraordinary.
00:19:27And then Carlo obviously has some technical and tactical knowledge
00:19:32of another planet.
00:19:34But that thing, in my opinion, makes a difference.
00:19:36And Carlo is not a good player.
00:19:40Carlo, when he has to get angry,
00:19:43excuse the term, he gets angry without any problem.
00:19:45But he knows,
00:19:48not only because he was a player,
00:19:50but also because he has the ability to stay in the relationship,
00:19:55to stay in the will to understand who is in front of him.
00:19:58Because, I have to underline this,
00:20:00every player, every child is different.
00:20:05So I think that's something to underline.
00:20:08Do you remember a great outburst from Carlo?
00:20:12I don't remember a great outburst in particular,
00:20:17but I'm sure there was one that...
00:20:19Or if there is one thing that he does particularly well,
00:20:22but that can also be out of the pitch.
00:20:24He was a great outburst.
00:20:26No, out of the pitch, he was really...
00:20:29I remember when, I don't know if they have already told you,
00:20:33we were preparing for the Scudetto con Sacchi,
00:20:36the first year,
00:20:37when we were preparing for the famous Bibitone,
00:20:40which was a huge glass of Coca-Cola,
00:20:44Polazzo, I don't know what else was in it,
00:20:46but obviously nothing, everything was regular.
00:20:49There was also Paolo, but he paid the bill,
00:20:52and we took a glass and drank it
00:20:54before going to the meeting that Sacchi had,
00:20:58before the departure for San Siro.
00:21:00Three hours before the departure.
00:21:02Yes, exactly, something like that.
00:21:04But outbursts from Carlo, someone saw him,
00:21:06I really can't remember,
00:21:08but when I was with him that year
00:21:10in charge of the youth sector,
00:21:13I heard some outbursts,
00:21:15some hard punches,
00:21:18some strong faces.
00:21:21He used those players.
00:21:24He is not, in short, so calm.
00:21:29He knows how to be in the right way.
00:21:31And probably the respect,
00:21:33which is also deserved and earned,
00:21:36is what made him who he is now.
00:21:38Because he has always managed
00:21:40the dense dressing rooms of the champions,
00:21:42he managed to win in places where,
00:21:44I remember France,
00:21:46where he struggled for that presence,
00:21:49almost full of champions,
00:21:51personalities and characters,
00:21:53and Carlo managed to manage it best.
00:21:55From the point of view of management,
00:21:57it is extraordinary, but also from a technical point of view,
00:22:00because then you look at the management,
00:22:02but from a technical point of view,
00:22:04I think that Davide,
00:22:06the son I had in Primavera,
00:22:08helped him a lot.
00:22:10Because he is also a boomer, Carlo.
00:22:13In evolution,
00:22:15thinking about evolving,
00:22:18about the change in football,
00:22:20having a son,
00:22:23or a coach,
00:22:25who wants to do well,
00:22:27is only a help.
00:22:29Just like Mauri, the son of the coach,
00:22:31who was with him in Milan.
00:22:33I studied your story a bit,
00:22:35it is really particular.
00:22:37You have to study it!
00:22:39No, I studied your childhood,
00:22:41in the sense that you didn't start right away.
00:22:44No, not at all.
00:22:46I am always proud,
00:22:48I always ask questions,
00:22:50and no one ever guesses,
00:22:52at least until the eleventh sport.
00:22:54I always say, what is the sport
00:22:56I practiced before playing football?
00:22:58And they answer, 11 different sports,
00:23:00and no one can guess.
00:23:02It's true, I read it!
00:23:04But I went to martial arts,
00:23:06because I was thinking
00:23:08about the propaedeutic coordination
00:23:10of the sport.
00:23:12But here too,
00:23:14there would be another topic,
00:23:16the coordination,
00:23:18we need specific coordination,
00:23:20because in the end,
00:23:22you have to be coordinated.
00:23:24It is true that at school,
00:23:26you coordinate a player,
00:23:28or an athlete, or a boy,
00:23:31and you coordinate different sports,
00:23:33so you need a general coordination.
00:23:35They would say to me,
00:23:37although you arrived late,
00:23:39in football,
00:23:41you were so good at covering
00:23:43that gap,
00:23:45compared to the others
00:23:47who started Milan before you,
00:23:49because you did artistic gymnastics.
00:23:51Actually, artistic gymnastics
00:23:53didn't hurt me,
00:23:55but that kind of coordination
00:23:57is a general coordination,
00:23:59Maybe I'm able to climb a tree because I did artistic gymnastics, I'm also able to do those things there, certain movements.
00:24:08Messi is probably not able to do that thing there, but Messi is Messi.
00:24:13I mean, you need specific coordination.
00:24:16But how did you get to do artistic gymnastics?
00:24:18I got there because in my family, at least my uncles, my uncle Giorgio and my uncle Carlo, both, a fan of Carlo del Toro,
00:24:26who has always been an example of reference for me, and maybe we'll see why,
00:24:30and the other one, a fan of Fiorentina, they did artistic gymnastics.
00:24:35And one of them was president of the Roburo e Virtus company in Villa Santa, where I lived, and I started there.
00:24:41I did three years with the teacher Assi, Pierluigi Assi, he was really a phenomenon.
00:24:47But I played football, I played football because I said, yes, gymnastics did me good,
00:24:52and I learned football, as they say, in the courtyards, in the streets, in the pitches,
00:24:56which were much more accessible back then than they are today.
00:24:59So I learned that famous functional technique there.
00:25:04Then, obviously, in Milan there was a whole process, a different process, but I arrived in Milan at almost 17 years old.
00:25:10So you, linked to a company, linked to an organization, with the training schedules,
00:25:15you did artistic gymnastics, but then, in parallel, as Embrianza says, you played football.
00:25:20I played football, I played a lot, I played...
00:25:23I finished school, when I didn't have gymnastics training, I finished school, I went to my aunt's,
00:25:29there were two aunts, my aunt Bea and my aunt Anna, who are no longer there,
00:25:33but I grew up with them, and when I finished my homework, I went to play right away.
00:25:39I went to play right away, until it got dark, really.
00:25:43And in the football club I think I started, which was COSOF, in Villa Santa,
00:25:47Centro Organizzazioni Sportive Oratorio Villa Santa, which is still in operation today.
00:25:53I started playing there, I don't know, when I was 13 years old.
00:25:57And how did you introduce yourself?
00:25:59I'm a midfielder, I'm attacking, I'm...
00:26:01No, I played third, because I had this cousin, the daughter of my aunt, Anna,
00:26:06who played third right in the first team of Villa Santa,
00:26:09which was in promotion, I think in promotion,
00:26:13and for me he was an idol, he was also a Milanese, hippie, long hair,
00:26:17Genesis, Zeppelin, everything, he had it in his room.
00:26:21And so I started as a third in Villa Santa.
00:26:25Then I gradually moved to central.
00:26:27But at 15 you were already in the first team?
00:26:29In the first team, in the first category, Villa Santa,
00:26:35because then I think my parents signed the OK.
00:26:39Physically you were already structured?
00:26:41No, I wasn't structured, I was a...
00:26:43Fringuellino?
00:26:44Yes, exactly, I was saying something else.
00:26:46Fringuellino.
00:26:47I was a fringuellino and I started...
00:26:49And who saw you? Who went to the first category?
00:26:52The observer went to Brambilla, I think it was Divimercate,
00:26:57yes, Brambilla, he too has left us for many years,
00:27:01who made the first report.
00:27:03So much so that I go to Milanello to do the test,
00:27:07I do a decent test, a training, etc.,
00:27:09but then Milan tells me after a few months,
00:27:12I'm sorry, but you're already ahead in the years.
00:27:15In 1963 there were Ievani, Gadda and Cambiaghi,
00:27:19Incocciati, Icardi, Battistini,
00:27:24they are quality players,
00:27:26and I didn't have that standard.
00:27:30So I go back to Villa Santa,
00:27:34I remember that I worked at my father's company,
00:27:36I was a technical designer,
00:27:38and at lunchtime I trained,
00:27:40because in the evening I went to school,
00:27:42I started doing the night shift,
00:27:45but in that period they come back to Milan,
00:27:49who tells me, come and do a tournament,
00:27:51and they make me do a tournament on the Biate Arno,
00:27:53there we beat Inter, Atalanta, we go to the final,
00:27:56I also score a goal, something that I...
00:27:58Let's say for friends not from the area,
00:28:01on the Biate Arno it's 4 km from Milanello.
00:28:04It's the exit from Milanello.
00:28:06But how did you get that second call?
00:28:08Like, yes, they called me...
00:28:10No, for Milan, I'm a Milanista,
00:28:12in Milan you couldn't...
00:28:14I wouldn't do that...
00:28:18I went, I did the tournament, it went well,
00:28:20I scored a goal,
00:28:22and then Villa Santa, I think,
00:28:25paid a fine because I...
00:28:27Milan paid a fine, sorry.
00:28:29They paid a fine because I couldn't have played that tournament.
00:28:33No, no, no, because at the time
00:28:35it was the first and second half,
00:28:37I was in the first half,
00:28:3919th of May,
00:28:41not 30th of June,
00:28:43so I couldn't have played that tournament.
00:28:45Sometimes you think about how things have to go.
00:28:47Instead, I played, it went well,
00:28:49so Milan took me from there.
00:28:51Who came to tell you, come to Milan?
00:28:53At the time there was Italo on the bench,
00:28:55the great Albiati,
00:28:57Faustino Braga, another great,
00:28:59and then came, I think, the second half,
00:29:01Fabio Capello,
00:29:03who had just stopped playing.
00:29:05Who took the edge off the game.
00:29:07Yes, they made me understand something.
00:29:09Then the president, Mariani,
00:29:11of Villa Santa,
00:29:13he told my father,
00:29:15so it's true that I left there
00:29:17in the summer
00:29:19for a summer holiday,
00:29:21I studied in England,
00:29:2310 days in Cambridge.
00:29:25When I came back,
00:29:27I started training with Milan.
00:29:29In the spring.
00:29:31It was the 79th,
00:29:33if I'm not mistaken.
00:29:35How was your approach to Milan?
00:29:37My approach to Milan,
00:29:39because I went straight away
00:29:41to train with Primavera.
00:29:43My approach to Milan was
00:29:45impactful,
00:29:47because I went to Milan
00:29:49to do that internship,
00:29:51that training, that day.
00:29:53It was the first time,
00:29:55you had never been there?
00:29:57When I started going to Milan
00:29:59continuously, it was fantastic.
00:30:01There was the first team,
00:30:03sometimes my mother
00:30:05would take me up,
00:30:07because otherwise it was a mess,
00:30:09I would have had to go
00:30:11by bus.
00:30:13I took the bus
00:30:15from Oggiono
00:30:17to Sesto.
00:30:19At Sesto I left,
00:30:21Sesto Marelli was there,
00:30:23because Sesto Rondò wasn't there yet.
00:30:25Then I took the bus
00:30:27to Piazza dell'Otto,
00:30:29there was the bus from Milan
00:30:31that took us up.
00:30:33I enrolled at night school,
00:30:35because I wanted to work
00:30:37in the small company
00:30:39that my father had with his uncles.
00:30:41At school there was...
00:30:43how can I say...
00:30:45from a political point of view
00:30:47there was a bit of a mess in those years.
00:30:49I decided to go to night school,
00:30:51my father made that sacrifice
00:30:53so I had to go in at 6pm.
00:30:55But I trained in Milanello.
00:30:57In the first year I didn't have a licence,
00:30:59so I had to take
00:31:01a lot of trips
00:31:03from Devecchi,
00:31:05Burriani, Antonelli,
00:31:07sometimes I had a hard time
00:31:09taking those trips.
00:31:11They would leave me down
00:31:13and at a certain point
00:31:15they would turn left to go to Monza
00:31:17and I would go right to Sesto.
00:31:19It was still a long way,
00:31:21maybe a couple of kilometres.
00:31:23With the Milan bag behind me
00:31:25I would go to night school.
00:31:27You know the route better than we do.
00:31:29I started playing football
00:31:31when I was a kid
00:31:33in an important youth club
00:31:35like Milan.
00:31:37Then as I got older
00:31:39when I got to Primavera,
00:31:41for God's sake,
00:31:43it was still early,
00:31:45but the first team was already there.
00:31:47Who was the coach?
00:31:49Primavera.
00:31:51So I was working
00:31:53and I wanted to follow my dad's company.
00:31:55You played for Milan
00:31:57but you didn't really believe it.
00:31:59It was a dream come true.
00:32:01But I didn't have that dream.
00:32:03I didn't have a fixed idea
00:32:05of becoming a professional player.
00:32:07Not in Milan,
00:32:09but less professional.
00:32:11I wanted to do things right
00:32:13so I decided to ask my dad
00:32:15and my parents
00:32:17to train with me in Milan.
00:32:19I was only there
00:32:21in the morning.
00:32:23That's nice.
00:32:25You asked your mum and dad for permission.
00:32:27It's normal.
00:32:29It's normal,
00:32:31but if a parent
00:32:33tells you
00:32:35not to go to Milan,
00:32:37you have to go to Juve.
00:32:39That makes a lot of sense.
00:32:41Filippo, do you agree?
00:32:43Yes, I agree.
00:32:45Maybe it's your dad
00:32:47who tells you to go to Milan
00:32:49but you ask your mum for permission.
00:32:51In the morning,
00:32:53I would eat fast
00:32:55and take the famous bus.
00:32:57In the evening,
00:32:59some teachers would ask me
00:33:01why I played football
00:33:03and what I was good at.
00:33:05Did your dad agree?
00:33:07Yes, he was a fan of Torino
00:33:09and then he became a fan of Milan.
00:33:11He was a fan of Acqua di Rosa and Toro
00:33:13because he was born in 1935.
00:33:15He was a big fan of Torino.
00:33:17Yes, he agreed.
00:33:19He supported me.
00:33:21When I went to Pescara,
00:33:23he often came to see me.
00:33:25When I started
00:33:27at Milan,
00:33:29it was great
00:33:31to arrive
00:33:33in Milan.
00:33:35I saw my team-mates
00:33:37as phenomenal.
00:33:39Chico, Evani, Gadda,
00:33:41Truccio Riccardo,
00:33:43Incociati,
00:33:45Bollis,
00:33:47Antonello Bollis,
00:33:49Marco Bollis.
00:33:51I had to give my all
00:33:53to be able to stay there.
00:33:55Filippo,
00:33:57your first Milan shirt
00:33:59is a bit old.
00:34:01Do you still have it?
00:34:03It was a disaster.
00:34:05I don't know how to tell you.
00:34:07I had a friend
00:34:09who collected shirts.
00:34:11During my career,
00:34:13I exchanged shirts.
00:34:15I exchanged shirts
00:34:17with the players
00:34:19I was up against.
00:34:21I had shirts from Maradona,
00:34:23Platini, Pruzzo,
00:34:25Zico.
00:34:27I gave them all to this friend.
00:34:29At a certain point,
00:34:31when I was about to finish,
00:34:33I got the idea
00:34:35of collecting shirts.
00:34:37I have a passion for English football
00:34:39and for all the other foreign leagues.
00:34:41Now I say,
00:34:43I gave them all to this friend.
00:34:45Did you give your first shirt too?
00:34:47Yes, I don't have it.
00:34:49They gave me a Milan shirt.
00:34:51I don't know which one it is.
00:34:53It's not the first one.
00:34:55What was Maradona like?
00:34:57Having played against Maradona
00:34:59helped me.
00:35:01When I played against Maradona,
00:35:03I risked making mistakes,
00:35:05but I was approached.
00:35:07I had Lidono
00:35:09when I played against Maradona.
00:35:11Sometimes he put me up
00:35:13against Maradona.
00:35:15For me, Maradona
00:35:17is football.
00:35:19When the coach tells you
00:35:21you're up against Maradona tomorrow,
00:35:23do you feel like you've been chosen?
00:35:25Do you feel scared?
00:35:27Lidono was a phenomenon.
00:35:29He was an incredible character
00:35:31in terms of sarcasm.
00:35:33He used to come up to me
00:35:35and say,
00:35:37Marquis Platini
00:35:39or some other Maradona player.
00:35:41If he disappears from the pitch,
00:35:43that's fine.
00:35:45But if you disappear from the pitch,
00:35:47that's not a problem.
00:35:49Looking at it now,
00:35:51as a youngster,
00:35:53I would never say that.
00:35:55But he was a great baron.
00:35:57Filippo Maradona
00:35:59was a great baron.
00:36:01Filippo,
00:36:03we can say that
00:36:05he was another footballer.
00:36:07I remember
00:36:09there was a 5-on-9
00:36:11or 10-on-9
00:36:13and you had to beat him.
00:36:15Football has changed now.
00:36:17I wasn't able to beat him.
00:36:19Physically, I've never been one.
00:36:21Maybe I became a bit more ignorant
00:36:23towards the end of my career.
00:36:25Ignorant in terms of football,
00:36:27when I played for Brescia.
00:36:29My ability,
00:36:31if we want to call it that,
00:36:33was to try to play in advance,
00:36:35to make myself heard,
00:36:37to stand out.
00:36:39It was a sort of game,
00:36:41I'm not saying it was a chess game,
00:36:43but it was something
00:36:45to be able to
00:36:47deceive the opponent.
00:36:49Do I make myself heard?
00:36:51Do I stand out?
00:36:53What do you do?
00:36:55I played a bit on these things.
00:36:57Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't.
00:36:59Back then, in Italy,
00:37:01there were some really good players.
00:37:03You say this too,
00:37:05but who was the player
00:37:07you had the most trash talk with?
00:37:09Here too, trash talk?
00:37:11I suffered trash talk.
00:37:13Who?
00:37:15When I went to play
00:37:17in Pescara in my first year
00:37:19at Reggio Calabria
00:37:21with the Queen,
00:37:23not trash talk,
00:37:25but yes,
00:37:27but not trash talk.
00:37:29Do you think it was because
00:37:31he was young and you had to make him understand
00:37:33who was in charge?
00:37:35Yes, I think so.
00:37:37That time it was like that.
00:37:39The year in C was not easy
00:37:41because I had to play in Reggio,
00:37:43there was Taranto,
00:37:45there was Vito Chimenti.
00:37:47I remember when I had to play
00:37:49against him,
00:37:51I heard some noise
00:37:53so we looked outside
00:37:55and he was riding his famous bike
00:37:57with people who were going crazy.
00:37:59I should have marked him in Pescara.
00:38:01Maybe we even won 1-0.
00:38:03How did you take that loan?
00:38:05A piece of shit, now it's hard,
00:38:07or let's go?
00:38:09No, let's go.
00:38:11As I was saying,
00:38:13I wanted to give my best.
00:38:15It was after that year
00:38:17that I understood I could be a professional player
00:38:19even if I did my first contract with them.
00:38:21I remember I wanted a contract
00:38:23when I left.
00:38:25The money is important,
00:38:27but I remember
00:38:29I wanted
00:38:31a recognition
00:38:33from Pescara
00:38:35when I went there
00:38:37and they offered me
00:38:39500,000 lire.
00:38:41I asked for 700,000 because
00:38:43the workers...
00:38:45Did you have an attorney?
00:38:47No, I didn't.
00:38:49So you went to talk to the president?
00:38:51No, I took 8.4 million lire
00:38:53and 10.8 million
00:38:55for the first contract.
00:38:57Then I signed up
00:38:59for my first university.
00:39:01It was
00:39:03Mechanical Engineering.
00:39:05My dad had a workshop with mechanics.
00:39:07I signed up
00:39:09for the first lesson
00:39:11and it was one of the first
00:39:13universities I signed up for.
00:39:15But I didn't finish it.
00:39:17I didn't start it
00:39:19and I started again.
00:39:21If you want, I can tell you...
00:39:23What about the attorney?
00:39:25After the second year
00:39:27in Milan,
00:39:29the president is
00:39:31Farina.
00:39:33He calls me in the morning
00:39:35at 9 or 10 am
00:39:37and he lets me
00:39:39enter the office
00:39:41at 4 pm.
00:39:43In the afternoon,
00:39:45he sits me down
00:39:47and he extends the contract.
00:39:49Nothing changed
00:39:51compared to the previous year.
00:39:53What do I do?
00:39:55I sign up
00:39:57and he gets up
00:39:59and shakes my hand
00:40:01and says
00:40:03Ben, I'll give you another chance.
00:40:09And then the attorney
00:40:11came, right?
00:40:13I had Giuliano Terranio
00:40:15in the team with us.
00:40:17He knew his attorney
00:40:19Beppe Bonetto
00:40:21who was attorney
00:40:23for Paolo Maldini,
00:40:25Ferrara, Peruzzi...
00:40:27I relied on him.
00:40:29I have to say
00:40:31he was one of the most prepared
00:40:33in terms of knowing
00:40:35the norms of the federation
00:40:37and the regulations.
00:40:39In fact, I never
00:40:41discussed the contract
00:40:43because I wanted to
00:40:45for the injuries I had.
00:40:47The federation has always been
00:40:49very understanding and open
00:40:51with me.
00:40:53I started the 14th season
00:40:55and I left in 1996
00:40:57when there was the November market
00:40:59but I never had any problems.
00:41:01Of course, having someone
00:41:03of that value
00:41:05like Bonetto
00:41:07helped me a lot.
00:41:09Why Barcelona?
00:41:11It's something we
00:41:13at least I didn't experience
00:41:15but I was told a lot about.
00:41:17Why was it told?
00:41:19Can you imagine the colours
00:41:21of that day?
00:41:23Even more than the game.
00:41:25Why is there this
00:41:27totally red-black city
00:41:29and stadium?
00:41:31I had an article
00:41:33written in my blog
00:41:35by a friend,
00:41:37and I cried
00:41:39reading it.
00:41:43I still get emotional
00:41:45when I think about it
00:41:47but all the red-blacks
00:41:49who commented
00:41:51on Facebook
00:41:53and Instagram
00:41:55you see what it was like.
00:41:57Sorry.
00:41:59Don't worry.
00:42:01What it was like for the Milanese.
00:42:03In my opinion,
00:42:05you grew up in Milan
00:42:07and I think you're the luckiest.
00:42:09I didn't play
00:42:11I only played a quarter-final
00:42:13where things were already decided
00:42:15but
00:42:17it was incredible.
00:42:19It's the best.
00:42:21It's beautiful
00:42:23this thing.
00:42:25You read on Facebook
00:42:27people who left
00:42:29Napoli, Sicily
00:42:31who spent two days
00:42:33on the train
00:42:35leaving Fosse.
00:42:37There was everything.
00:42:39I don't know how to say it
00:42:41but it's priceless.
00:42:43We spoke to some of the
00:42:45next Milan players
00:42:47who told us
00:42:49about the final
00:42:51against Liverpool
00:42:53and we already knew
00:42:55we would win.
00:42:57Did you know about
00:42:59the invasion
00:43:01of Steaua?
00:43:03There was no certainty.
00:43:05You said
00:43:07if we lose
00:43:09it's a disaster.
00:43:11You said
00:43:13we can't lose
00:43:15and we have to do it for them.
00:43:17I don't know
00:43:19what my team-mates
00:43:21thought
00:43:23but they were all
00:43:25people who came
00:43:27from the previous season
00:43:29and they knew
00:43:31who the president
00:43:33and the management
00:43:35had brought to Milan
00:43:37so they knew
00:43:39they had to be prepared
00:43:41to face Steaua.
00:43:43Of course
00:43:45everyone says Steaua
00:43:47but if I'm not mistaken
00:43:49they beat
00:43:51someone in the previous season
00:43:53or in the final.
00:43:55It was a team
00:43:57that could give us a hard time
00:43:59but we knew
00:44:01we were prepared
00:44:03and certain of our chances.
00:44:05No one gives you
00:44:07the certainty of a win
00:44:09but Milan had a unique
00:44:11working culture
00:44:13that no one
00:44:15can understand.
00:44:17Is there anything
00:44:19that hasn't been said
00:44:21among the many things
00:44:23that have been said about Sacchi?
00:44:25I don't know
00:44:27but when he came to Milan
00:44:29in the evening
00:44:31he was breathing down his shoes
00:44:33and Tasso
00:44:35probably told me
00:44:37to turn off the lights
00:44:39because he was a martyr
00:44:41and he never stopped
00:44:43giving you advice
00:44:45about the game.
00:44:47The Dutch used to say
00:44:49one going deep,
00:44:51one going out.
00:44:53If you go deep
00:44:55in English
00:44:57you come to help
00:44:59by counter-moving the two points.
00:45:01What about you, Abaresi?
00:45:03Did you always look at Franco
00:45:05and say, yes, we know?
00:45:07No, we were in the same room
00:45:09because Franco always had
00:45:11his own room.
00:45:13We knew
00:45:15if we had to press
00:45:17or not.
00:45:19We had to do it.
00:45:21He was a genius.
00:45:23He brought
00:45:25a turning point
00:45:27in football.
00:45:29There was no VAR
00:45:31because there were so many
00:45:33away players!
00:45:35There was no active
00:45:37or passive away.
00:45:39We played on that too.
00:45:41Did you do the video part?
00:45:43Yes,
00:45:45with Arrigo
00:45:47but not much
00:45:49because there was no VHS.
00:45:51The first VHS I have
00:45:53is a cassette.
00:45:55I remember
00:45:57using it in a game
00:45:59but it's a clear memory
00:46:01that I have
00:46:03and maybe we would have used it
00:46:05before.
00:46:07When we played
00:46:09against Paris Saint-Germain
00:46:11at home,
00:46:13I didn't play
00:46:15but after 15 minutes
00:46:17I watched
00:46:19Jojo and Ginola
00:46:21with this cassette
00:46:23and I came on
00:46:25with more confidence.
00:46:27But before that
00:46:29we watched the games
00:46:31with Arrigo
00:46:33and we had meetings.
00:46:35We didn't have a lot of footage
00:46:37but we had movies
00:46:39instead of TV.
00:46:41Do you remember the first
00:46:43Champions League games
00:46:45against a team
00:46:47from Finland?
00:46:49Eastern Europe.
00:46:51There was no VHS
00:46:53because it didn't record.
00:46:55What did you do?
00:46:57We prepared
00:46:59with Arrigo
00:47:01with a clear
00:47:03football proposal.
00:47:05We wanted
00:47:07to have a short team
00:47:09and to be
00:47:11a single block
00:47:13and to move
00:47:15in unison
00:47:17with the ball.
00:47:19There were these
00:47:21exchanges between
00:47:23Terzino and La Mezzala
00:47:25if we played with La Mezzala
00:47:27instead of the midfield.
00:47:29There were Colombo and Tassotti
00:47:31and Ivani and Maldini.
00:47:33I started
00:47:35watching Milan
00:47:37at the end of the 80s
00:47:39and I always asked
00:47:41why there were always
00:47:43players on the wing
00:47:45that were not
00:47:47exactly like Colombo.
00:47:49Why did Colombo play there?
00:47:51I don't know.
00:47:53Colombo didn't just
00:47:55run. He had
00:47:57technical intelligence
00:47:59and he understood
00:48:01when to shoot
00:48:03and when to wait.
00:48:05Tassotti had a
00:48:07technical
00:48:09intelligence.
00:48:11These football
00:48:13ties are
00:48:15important because
00:48:17they help you
00:48:19in football.
00:48:21They allow you to read
00:48:23the opponent's situation
00:48:25and move accordingly.
00:48:27Even Ivani, who played
00:48:29on the wing a lot,
00:48:31was more of a midfielder
00:48:33than a midfielder.
00:48:35Yes, he was a midfielder
00:48:37at the time.
00:48:39He was a god.
00:48:41It was beautiful to watch.
00:48:43He ran,
00:48:45he kept his foot on the ball,
00:48:47he was in control
00:48:49of his body.
00:48:51What makes everyone dream
00:48:53is the exotic.
00:48:55There was nothing more exotic than Ruud Gullit.
00:48:57Luca Serafini in Forza Milan
00:48:59told us a lot about Gullit.
00:49:01Even with him off the pitch.
00:49:03I ask you,
00:49:05Ruud Gullit,
00:49:07what was he like?
00:49:09My first idol was Ruud Gullit.
00:49:11He played on the wings,
00:49:13he ran,
00:49:15he had a great physique.
00:49:17He was an idol.
00:49:19You played with my idol,
00:49:21what was he like?
00:49:23He was...
00:49:25He made us laugh.
00:49:27He was funny.
00:49:29When he arrived,
00:49:31he would say,
00:49:33first in English,
00:49:35then in Italian.
00:49:37When we arrived in Milan,
00:49:39he introduced himself
00:49:41and said,
00:49:43I play in a band.
00:49:45He took a guitar
00:49:47and played with three strings.
00:49:49We started laughing.
00:49:51He was a genius.
00:49:53He was gorgeous.
00:49:55He also played
00:49:57with Beckham,
00:49:59Van Basten,
00:50:01and Frank.
00:50:03Gullit was...
00:50:05Sorry, I'm closing on Gullit.
00:50:07In the end,
00:50:09Gullit
00:50:11didn't have a role.
00:50:13He was crazy.
00:50:15He played on the wings,
00:50:17he was good.
00:50:19He started as a central defender.
00:50:21If I'm not mistaken,
00:50:23we met Antonio Gamper.
00:50:25Gagliani, Lovite,
00:50:27central defender.
00:50:29Gagliani had the ability
00:50:31to find his team-mate
00:50:33at 50 metres.
00:50:35He was a complete player.
00:50:37Even here,
00:50:39when we talk about individual technique,
00:50:41if he started playing football,
00:50:43he wasn't one of the best.
00:50:45Someone had already said that.
00:50:47But in terms of technical efficiency,
00:50:49he was number one.
00:50:51No one wanted him
00:50:53in football.
00:50:55We all wanted Donadoni
00:50:57because Donadoni was good at football.
00:50:59He even managed to
00:51:01get a shoulder out
00:51:03when he fell,
00:51:05but he was perfect.
00:51:07Sacchi's shoes,
00:51:09Gullit's guitar,
00:51:11remind me of the heart
00:51:13of a locker room.
00:51:15You try to unlock the dressing room.
00:51:17We're interested in the backstage.
00:51:19I have a question.
00:51:21If I had the chance,
00:51:23who would I like to talk to?
00:51:25It changes a lot,
00:51:27but I think it's always fascinating.
00:51:29We see the news,
00:51:31and I think it's the ugliest news.
00:51:33How were the retreats?
00:51:35First of all,
00:51:37if they were a break or if you had fun.
00:51:39Today, with the PlayStation,
00:51:41when you left,
00:51:43for God's sake,
00:51:45you always played in the afternoon.
00:51:47If you played Napoli on a Sunday afternoon,
00:51:49you left on a Saturday.
00:51:51In that case,
00:51:53I was a bit ignorant.
00:51:55I was in the dressing room
00:51:57with Pietro Paolo.
00:51:59I often went to Mauro Del Tasso's room
00:52:01to have a chat,
00:52:03or to someone else's room.
00:52:05I liked to walk around
00:52:07until 10pm
00:52:09when you had to turn off
00:52:11or stay in your own room.
00:52:13In the retreats,
00:52:15you tried to stay
00:52:17down at the bar.
00:52:19We played backgammon
00:52:21in Milanello,
00:52:23because it seemed like
00:52:25you were more at home there.
00:52:27You got to know each other
00:52:29and watched TV together.
00:52:31You didn't watch it at the time.
00:52:33I don't remember.
00:52:35There was always Buongiorno.
00:52:37I don't remember
00:52:39who was there.
00:52:41Were the retreats
00:52:43full of people?
00:52:45Did you play on Sundays
00:52:47or did you walk around in the morning?
00:52:49We had a walking rule.
00:52:51If I'm not mistaken, Enrico
00:52:53always made us walk
00:52:55for 15-20 minutes.
00:52:57All together?
00:52:59Yes, all together.
00:53:01He wanted the group
00:53:03to move together.
00:53:05I remember the photos
00:53:07of Forza Milan.
00:53:09In the free time,
00:53:11the guys wore
00:53:13a t-shirt.
00:53:15I remember.
00:53:17Mediolanum?
00:53:19I don't know if it had the number.
00:53:21Without the number?
00:53:23Yes, probably.
00:53:25We didn't have
00:53:27the accessories
00:53:29that we have today
00:53:31in terms of clothing.
00:53:33We probably used
00:53:35t-shirts.
00:53:37T-shirts were printed
00:53:39and the number
00:53:41didn't exist.
00:53:43Some t-shirts
00:53:45were printed
00:53:47and the number
00:53:49didn't exist.
00:53:51We were curious
00:53:53about the pitch inspection.
00:53:55You always had to go
00:53:57and see the pitch.
00:53:59Yes, we always went
00:54:01and saw the pitch.
00:54:03I always wore
00:54:05a 15-13 shirt.
00:54:07Unless there was
00:54:09a really tough pitch.
00:54:11The defenders
00:54:13always told me
00:54:15not to wear rubber shoes.
00:54:17The 15-13 shirt
00:54:19was always a must
00:54:21to have a better grip.
00:54:23I wasn't fast
00:54:25so it was important
00:54:27to have a good grip
00:54:29on the pitch.
00:54:31We always went
00:54:33and saw the pitch
00:54:35and the areas
00:54:37where they should be
00:54:39better.
00:54:41How was the relationship
00:54:43with the referees?
00:54:45The referee was the manager.
00:54:47It depends.
00:54:49Not all referees
00:54:51were human.
00:54:53Everyone had their own character.
00:54:55You couldn't get close
00:54:57to everyone,
00:54:59especially if you weren't a captain.
00:55:01Others gave you
00:55:03the opportunity
00:55:05to exchange opinions
00:55:07even if you were fast.
00:55:09I was always
00:55:11very focused.
00:55:13I didn't have much time
00:55:15to prepare myself.
00:55:17You could go
00:55:19to that country
00:55:21but you were already
00:55:23focused on
00:55:25what was going to happen.
00:55:27I have a lot of questions
00:55:29about those years.
00:55:31Do you remember the trips
00:55:33to Italy?
00:55:35Now the team
00:55:37had their eyes
00:55:39and ears on the pitch.
00:55:41Once,
00:55:43if I'm not mistaken,
00:55:45there was a team
00:55:47that tried
00:55:49to intimidate you
00:55:51because the fans
00:55:53were too close.
00:55:55Yes, there were
00:55:57people who wanted
00:55:59to annoy you
00:56:01or intimidate you
00:56:03when you got to the stadium.
00:56:05I think
00:56:07there was a stronger
00:56:09relationship
00:56:11between the players
00:56:13and the fans.
00:56:15There was more
00:56:17closeness
00:56:19compared to the roles.
00:56:21I remember
00:56:23the summer break
00:56:25in Milanello
00:56:27when we had
00:56:29finished dinner
00:56:31and it was still
00:56:33summer.
00:56:35The days got longer
00:56:37and we did a bit of everything
00:56:39even from the
00:56:41goalkeeper's point of view.
00:56:43Once, we started
00:56:45doing a 1000 metres
00:56:47barefoot.
00:56:49Carlo Tasso and I
00:56:51did this thing
00:56:53for 1000 metres
00:56:55after we had done
00:56:5710 repetitions in the afternoon
00:56:59with kids.
00:57:01Those were the days.
00:57:03We're coming to an end.
00:57:05I have one last question
00:57:07about the following years.
00:57:09Your choice was England.
00:57:11You played a lot here.
00:57:13Before England,
00:57:15sorry Fazio,
00:57:17but we can't not ask you
00:57:19about your relationship with Baresi
00:57:21before coming to England.
00:57:23You and Baresi were one and the same.
00:57:25Think about it,
00:57:27when I was on the bench
00:57:29I didn't see many of his games
00:57:31but I was on the bench.
00:57:33I always remember when
00:57:35my friends caught us
00:57:37at the Concorrezzo pit
00:57:39because the others were
00:57:41on the bench
00:57:43but we had to catch them.
00:57:45In the Scudetto
00:57:47in 1979,
00:57:49I was at San Siro
00:57:51on the bench
00:57:53when Gianni Rivera
00:57:55moved Milan to Bologna
00:57:57because the fans
00:57:59couldn't react
00:58:01to San Siro's second goal.
00:58:03Franco was an icon.
00:58:05He wasn't,
00:58:07he is an icon.
00:58:09Franco and Milan.
00:58:11Franco was my captain.
00:58:19He's the football that walks.
00:58:21I don't know how to put it
00:58:23because he's a very quiet person
00:58:25and he always
00:58:27set an example
00:58:29with facts.
00:58:31I think the fans
00:58:33recognised him.
00:58:35He was so quiet
00:58:37but when he got angry...
00:58:39We had a table full of stupid people
00:58:41I don't say young anymore
00:58:43because there are three years of difference
00:58:45but in the years that have changed
00:58:47there were Simone,
00:58:49Albertini, Stefano Nava
00:58:51and we did some stupid things
00:58:53A stupid thing?
00:58:55No, I'm unpronounceable
00:58:57but at a certain point
00:58:59when the fans would get up
00:59:01Franco would turn around
00:59:03and look at them.
00:59:05I'm not saying
00:59:07a stupid thing.
00:59:09He would look at them
00:59:11and say, who are you?
00:59:13All these anecdotes
00:59:15can be found in your book
00:59:17that has just been published.
00:59:19How do you know?
00:59:21Yes, we know.
00:59:23What's the book called?
00:59:25Il mio calcio eretico.
00:59:27It's about
00:59:29my journey in Milan
00:59:31as a player
00:59:33and what happened
00:59:35after I played football.
00:59:37There are all the aspects
00:59:39related to the youth sector,
00:59:41the relationship with the youth,
00:59:43the pedagogical aspects of football
00:59:45and learning.
00:59:47I hope it's
00:59:49an interesting book
00:59:51that tells
00:59:53about my journey
00:59:55as a player
00:59:57and then I'll pick up
00:59:59other topics
01:00:01that are related to Milan
01:00:03and not just to Milan
01:00:05but to the growth of the youth
01:00:07and the formation of young players
01:00:09and professional players.
01:00:11We recommend it.
01:00:15If you listen to me
01:00:17there's one aspect
01:00:19that interests me.
01:00:21England?
01:00:23No, it's about England.
01:00:25You arrived in England
01:00:27almost by chance.
01:00:29Yes, incredible.
01:00:31I was in my third year in Brescia
01:00:33and I had a hard time
01:00:35renewing my contract.
01:00:37I stayed with Mazzone
01:00:39and we were saved
01:00:41a few days in advance.
01:00:43There was Baggio, Pirlo,
01:00:45he stole my spot in Bonaire.
01:00:47Yes, he played
01:00:49and then he got injured
01:00:51and Mazzone was the only defender.
01:00:55Hi Daniele.
01:00:57So it was
01:00:59the following year
01:01:01that I said it was impossible
01:01:03to renew my contract.
01:01:05I got a call
01:01:07from Nicola Caricola,
01:01:09a Barca player from Juventus
01:01:11who worked for Vialli in England
01:01:13and he asked me
01:01:15about Igli Tare
01:01:17who had played with me
01:01:19in Brescia.
01:01:21He was a forward
01:01:23and he asked me
01:01:25if I thought about
01:01:27playing for Watford
01:01:29because Vialli would have
01:01:31coached Watford after
01:01:33he coached Chelsea.
01:01:35I told him about Tare
01:01:37who was an interesting player
01:01:39for English football.
01:01:41There were specific rules
01:01:43in England
01:01:45and I couldn't take him.
01:01:47He called me
01:01:49and said he was looking
01:01:51for a central defender
01:01:53and we took Ramon Vega
01:01:55from Celtic.
01:01:57I said it was me
01:01:59but I didn't think
01:02:01Brescia would renew my contract
01:02:03and that was it.
01:02:05I was in Australia
01:02:07on holiday
01:02:09and I picked up the phone
01:02:11and it was Luca Vialli.
01:02:13He said he had played
01:02:15with me in the U21s
01:02:17and we talked
01:02:19and I played against him
01:02:21and he asked me
01:02:23if I was coming
01:02:25and I said yes.
01:02:27I was coming back
01:02:29from Australia
01:02:31and I flew to London
01:02:33and I got the agreement
01:02:35right away.
01:02:37I didn't even have to go there.
01:02:39We agreed.
01:02:41Then I went straight to Fiji
01:02:43because the team needed a refugee
01:02:45and Vialli's second
01:02:47was Ray Wilkins.
01:02:49I met him
01:02:51after I had him
01:02:53as a team-mate.
01:02:55He was an extraordinary person
01:02:57and good people often leave too soon.
01:02:59That's how my adventure
01:03:01at Watford began.
01:03:03It was a disappointing season
01:03:05in terms of the team's results
01:03:07and in terms of me
01:03:09it was a good season
01:03:11even though I wasn't able
01:03:13to play in the last few games
01:03:15because of an injury.
01:03:17I still remember
01:03:19the first game
01:03:21we lost 3-0
01:03:23at the main road
01:03:25against Manchester City
01:03:27and I was picked
01:03:29by my team-mates
01:03:31and I came on.
01:03:33They recognised me
01:03:35and called me
01:03:37a weirdo.
01:03:41They would sing
01:03:43We don't need another weirdo.
01:03:45So I came on
01:03:47as a captain
01:03:49and I came on
01:03:51at the main road
01:03:53and I always loved
01:03:55English football.
01:03:57I was coached by Kevin Keegan
01:03:59from Manchester City
01:04:01and I remember
01:04:03he came on
01:04:05at Liverpool
01:04:07against Roma in 1983
01:04:09and I was coached
01:04:11by Stuart Pearce.
01:04:13It was an extraordinary
01:04:15season
01:04:17not because of the results
01:04:19but because of Watford.
01:04:21How did you live in England?
01:04:23It was good.
01:04:25I lived in a neighbourhood
01:04:27that was called
01:04:29Waterloo.
01:04:31It was close to the motorway
01:04:33that led to the training ground
01:04:35at London Colney University
01:04:37where Watford trained.
01:04:39It was close to the centre of London
01:04:41and I walked from there.
01:04:43There was a black suburb
01:04:45close to Tamden Town.
01:04:47We played on Saturdays
01:04:49and Tuesdays
01:04:51because there were always
01:04:5346 games and 24 teams.
01:04:55On Sundays
01:04:57we played the Premier League
01:04:59so it was an extraordinary
01:05:01year for me.
01:05:03You were a player,
01:05:05an observer and a fan.
01:05:07Did you already have the idea
01:05:09to prepare for the next career?
01:05:11No, not yet.
01:05:13Luca had scared me
01:05:15with the possibility
01:05:17to join the staff
01:05:19and coach the defence.
01:05:21Ray Wilkins was
01:05:23the midfielder
01:05:25and then the manager
01:05:27of the team.
01:05:29I was supposed to be the
01:05:31defensive midfielder
01:05:33but things didn't work out
01:05:35and he wasn't confirmed
01:05:37so I came back to Italy.
01:05:39Let's wrap it up.
01:05:41Do we have the cards?
01:05:43Yes, but I'd like to hear
01:05:45your thoughts on Viali.
01:05:47He was your coach
01:05:49and your team-mate.
01:05:51Viali was incredible.
01:05:53There are no words
01:05:55to describe him.
01:05:57I remember a scene
01:05:59that happened
01:06:01at Birmingham.
01:06:03I like to remember it
01:06:05because I remember
01:06:07his smile
01:06:09and I think I can
01:06:11remember it here.
01:06:13We were playing at Birmingham
01:06:15and after the first half
01:06:17we were 3-0 down.
01:06:19He came on
01:06:21and started talking
01:06:23to everyone around him
01:06:25and at a certain point
01:06:27you could hear him.
01:06:33Luca turned around
01:06:35and said,
01:06:37Who farted?
01:06:39He hid his hand
01:06:41and said,
01:06:43It's me, Luca!
01:06:45Ok, let's go!
01:06:47With that smile...
01:06:49Those are simple examples
01:06:51but they describe you.
01:06:53I must thank Luca
01:06:55for this experience
01:06:57in England.
01:06:59We want to keep our guests
01:07:01here for 455 hours
01:07:03while you pick a card
01:07:05and answer.
01:07:07I'd like to hear your thoughts
01:07:09on Van Basten.
01:07:11We talked about
01:07:13Ronaldo and Brocchi.
01:07:15Van Basten,
01:07:17Baccia and everything.
01:07:19Marco is incredible.
01:07:21Can you tell us a story about him?
01:07:23No, it's an incredible story.
01:07:25It's stupid.
01:07:27When I was
01:07:29in charge of the youth academy
01:07:31and I said,
01:07:33let's go to the teams
01:07:35and see how they worked,
01:07:37we had to go to Ajax.
01:07:39I was with Stefano Baldini
01:07:41who was our collaborator.
01:07:43We got to the Ajax area
01:07:45and there was a taxi driver
01:07:47who didn't know
01:07:49where the club was.
01:07:51So I said,
01:07:53I'll call Marco
01:07:55and he said,
01:07:57give me the taxi driver
01:07:59and he explained.
01:08:01Stefano said,
01:08:03who did you call?
01:08:05Marco Van Basten.
01:08:07And he said,
01:08:09come on,
01:08:11you can't call him
01:08:13Marco Van Basten.
01:08:15It's a waste of time.
01:08:17Go on, Filippo,
01:08:19read and answer.
01:08:23Who is the most
01:08:25famous person you met?
01:08:27Help me.
01:08:29Nelson Mandela.
01:08:31He came to meet
01:08:33AC Milan, I remember.
01:08:35We didn't go.
01:08:37We went there
01:08:39to make two friends.
01:08:41I was a big fan of
01:08:43Lelli Sparta,
01:08:45if I'm not mistaken.
01:08:47We played a lot together.
01:08:49I played there
01:08:51because they gave us
01:08:53the number of shirts
01:08:55based on the name.
01:08:57I happened to play
01:08:59that game with number 10.
01:09:01Gianni Rivera,
01:09:03not just him.
01:09:05So we went to Johannesburg
01:09:07and we were
01:09:09invited to his office
01:09:11in the last floor.
01:09:13Silvano Ramaccioni,
01:09:15the whole team,
01:09:17Franco,
01:09:19and so on.
01:09:21I was lucky
01:09:23to meet Giovanni Paolo II
01:09:25at AC Milan.
01:09:27But I think the emotions
01:09:29Nelson Mandela
01:09:31conveyed to me were even stronger.
01:09:33That's great.
01:09:35Another quick question
01:09:37about our format.
01:09:39I don't know, Filippo.
01:09:41What do we do with the pyramid?
01:09:43I don't like the pyramid.
01:09:45I like all the circular aspects.
01:09:47Because the pyramid
01:09:49means hierarchy.
01:09:51But if it's about
01:09:53a game system...
01:09:55The 4-3-2-1.
01:09:57If it's about a game system,
01:09:59that's fine.
01:10:01So we skip this one.
01:10:03Let's do it.
01:10:05Yes, of course.
01:10:07You can write next to it.
01:10:091st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
01:10:11We've marked the defenders
01:10:13who made history at AC Milan.
01:10:15Put them in order.
01:10:17The one at the top is yours.
01:10:19No, I'll tell you the names.
01:10:21So this is the coincidence.
01:10:23Maybe I'll tell you one
01:10:25you thought was a different one.
01:10:27The first name is Nesta.
01:10:29Let's put Nesta
01:10:31in 2nd place.
01:10:33With another name.
01:10:35Yes, with another name.
01:10:37Then Stam.
01:10:39Stam in 4th place.
01:10:41Then we have Baresi.
01:10:43No doubt
01:10:45you went straight to 1st place.
01:10:47We have a player
01:10:49who took you as a reference point
01:10:51and then unfortunately stole your spot.
01:10:53Costacurta.
01:10:55He should be here,
01:10:57but if you tell me Maldini,
01:10:59I'll put him here.
01:11:01Exactly.
01:11:03Thiago Silva.
01:11:07Thiago Silva next to Costacurta.
01:11:09So 3rd place.
01:11:11Filippo Galli.
01:11:13But if I can,
01:11:15with the same strength as Baresi,
01:11:17you got 4th place.
01:11:19Then we have Paolo Maldini.
01:11:21So you took a step
01:11:23under Baresi.
01:11:25Then we have Tassotti.
01:11:27Tassotti with Costacurta
01:11:29and Thiago Silva.
01:11:31And the last two
01:11:33are a bit older.
01:11:35Cesare Maldini.
01:11:37With 2 slots left.
01:11:39So they're forced to 4th place.
01:11:41And Schnellinger.
01:11:43Great Schnellinger.
01:11:45And Schnellinger in 4th place.
01:11:47It went well.
01:11:49Maldini should be here
01:11:51with Franco.
01:11:53Exactly.
01:11:55To close this podcast
01:11:57with your name.
01:11:59We say it
01:12:01because you're lighting this lamp.
01:12:03Who is it?
01:12:05Aladino.
01:12:07Who is a?
01:12:09A genius.
01:12:11Can you express 3 wishes?
01:12:15Greetings to my wife
01:12:17and my children.
01:12:19Possibly also to my subscriber.
01:12:21My children also have a nephew.
01:12:23I'm a grandfather for 3 years.
01:12:25So greetings first of all.
01:12:29And then
01:12:31peace.
01:12:39Let's say sports.
01:12:41A Milan that wins again.
01:12:43Champions League or Cup.
01:12:47I hope to find a good project
01:12:49for my job.
01:12:51It won't be easy.
01:12:53But I hope to find
01:12:55a good project.
01:12:57I hope that the small projects
01:12:59I'm working on
01:13:01will be successful.
01:13:03And that they find people's favour.
01:13:05Including the book.